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Archbishop of Canterbury Laments `Chaos’ Over Women, Gays

posted by mconsoli

LONDON (RNS) Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams warned Anglican clergy on Tuesday (Feb. 9) that their debate about female and gay bishops is causing “chaos” that must be resolved if the Church of England is to be unified.
In a key address in London, Williams pleaded with the General Synod — the church’s parliament — to start listening to each other and stop pursuing a “zero-sum, self-congratulating” course.
Otherwise, he said, “the present effect is chaos.” The archbishop added, in an apparent reference to the Episcopal Church, that “certain decisions made by some provinces impact so heavily on the conscience and mission of others that fellowship is strained or shattered and trust destroyed.” In December, the Episcopal Church, which is the U.S. branch of the Anglican Communion, elected an open lesbian as an assistant bishop in Los Angeles.
The 2004 consecration of an openly gay priest as bishop of New Hampshire has caused deep dissent within the Anglican Communion.
As head of the worldwide communion, Williams is fighting to keep it from flying apart amid disagreements and feuds over gay bishops in the United States and female bishops in Britain.
What’s needed, the archbishop said, is a new set of guidelines for the communion.
“We need to look for a resolution that allows some measure of continuing dignity and indeed liberty to all.” In an appeal for unity, the archbishop said, “The challenges of our local and global Anglican crises have to do with how this shapes our councils and decision-making.
It is not a simple plea for the sacrifice of the minority to the majority.” He called for a “major change of heart all round” among Anglicans and urged them to “discover an ecclesiastical fellowship in which we trust each other to act for our good.”
– Al Webb



  • Wannabe Theo

    What, no mention of the Anglican church in Uganda supporting the law to kill gays? Doesn’t the Archbishop have a problem with that?

  • pagansister

    Just separate already. These folks aren’t going to come to any satisfactory agreement…one group doesn’t want to accept homosexuals, and the other does….good luck with agreements!

  • JohnQ

    Archbishop Williams is attempting the near impossible.
    I would point out a couple of key points:
    1. The Episcopal Church is not insisting that all other provinces ordain females and homosexuals. We have ask that the other provinces recognize that our presiding bishop is just that….our presiding bishop even if they do not wish to have female clergy/bishops within their own province.
    Some of the other provinces are insisting that we no longer ordain females and gays. In other words, we are not insisting that others abide by our rules….but, some others are insisting that we abide by theirs.
    We are not even insisting that the Anglican bishops that have and permit multiple wives end that practice.
    2. If some of the other Anglicans insist that we are not part of the communion. So be it. We are only ~2.2million of the ~80million Anglicans worldwide. Of course we contribute (or at least we have through 2008) more than one third of the Anglican worldwide budget. So, less than 2% of Anglicans contribute more than 33% of the worldwide budget.
    Interestingly enough, last year I received an email from the Family Research Council chastising the Episcopal Church because last year or the year before for being a bully by reaffirming our commitment to continue to contribute to the worldwide fund. Gee, does the FRC really think that we should continue to contribute if we are no longer a part of the Anglican Communion?
    As I already stated…..Archbishop Williams has a near impossible task.
    Peace!

  • pagansister

    Thanks, JohnQ for an insight from a person involved in the situation.

  • cknuck

    money, sex and power. nice mission statement “we busted up the church with homosexuality.” almost biblical.
    Wannabe your information is slightly inaccurate the church helped change the government (two different entities) from death sentences to life sentences. The church never advocated death even though it knew the climate for intolerance of homosexuality. Many people would have other people to believe it is the church that advocated for death and the fact that they advocated for life sentences is not a step in the right direction. A leap is sometimes better than a step but a step is definately in this case better than the alternative.

  • nnmns

    I agree, thanks JohnQ. It appears they would miss you far more than you should miss them. And if a bunch of money stays in America, well, we can use it!

  • jestrfyl

    You are not likely “On the side of the angels” when all your efforts are concentrated on closing the door to people whose own lives are focused on being loving and caring. I think the archbishop is getting the sense that the division is going to happen anyway, and it is better to open the doors and practice inclusion rather than slamming the door shut and living lives of exclusion. It’s a lot hard to invite people in when when the first thing they encounter is a closed door, closed minds, and closed hearts.

  • pagansister

    “It’s a lot hard(er) to invite people in when the first thing they encounter is a closed door, closed minds, and closed hearts.” jestrfyl
    AMEN to that, jestrfyl!

  • JohnQ

    cknuck-
    money, sex and power. nice mission statement “we busted up the church with homosexuality.” almost biblical.
    Money is power. Our church believes in using money/power to assist those in need. You think there is something wrong or un-Christian about this?
    Sexuality and sexual behavior are just one part of life. Perhaps your church revolves around sex…in ours we attempt to focus on the whole life of a person. We are all God’s children…the Episcopal church advocates that we do not exclude some of God’s children because of the prejudices of others.
    Peace!

  • cknuck

    JohnQ actually your church is so sexually driven it is splitting here in America, and it is apparent to your church money is power, more powerful than God. If the Anglican clergy was that concerned about your money they would bow to your church’s will concerning your church’s homosexual desires.

  • pagansister

    JohnQ’s church is “sexually driven” cknuck? “homosexual desires”? Holy cow, cknuck. Wonderfully Christian words…Yet another example of you as a great representative of the group! Most of us here know you don’t approve of equal rights for all regarding church leadership, (no homosexuals) or gender(women…and most certainly NO lesbian women) but to claim that those that do see all human beings as EQUAL in the eyes of the Lord are driven by “homosexual desires” thus making the church “sexually driven”….that is just plain..how should I put this…so prejudice it is totally …SAD.

  • cknuck

    pagan there is no equal rights when it comes to Christ centered leadership, its Christ centered. But of course as a pagan you would have objections to that concept.

  • pagansister

    How about “human rights” cknuck…does that ring any bells? OR has JC ruined that concept for you? IMO, yes.

  • nnmns

    cknuck likes “Christ centered” this or that because there’s no Christ around to tell what he’d do or what he meant or in fact whether he said any of the things attributed to him. Thus cknuck gets to interpret what “Christ” said, i.e. to speak for him.
    What better opportunity than to speak for a dead person, especially if there are fools who will pay to advance cknuck’sd67zkz cause.

  • Mordred08

    Of course, heteros aren’t “sexually driven” at all. It’s those wicked sodomites, you see, and that’s why we have to let the Ugandans lock them up for life.

  • cknuck

    nnmns you ninny I don’t get to interpret anything its been around since before me or you for that matter. Just because you can get H22 and jest to agree with your dead Jesus misinformed position and not me don’t be such a spoil sport.
    pagan your ignorance of spiritual leadership is not surprising but your insistence that it should look like your projections is, remember you’re out of the loop and according to you proudly so. why do you insist on trying to keep a foot on both sides? don’t you know what the bible says about double mindedness?

  • pagansister

    cknuck, you make me laugh. Thanks. “ignorance of spiritual leadership? Good one.
    Why do I keep a foot on both sides? Why Not? Religion in general and those who “run” it and follow it are interesting. As to the double mindedness comment? What does your holy book say about that? Tell me…. I don’t remember those words being there. Appreciate the chapter and verse that might be in so I can verify your answer.

  • cknuck

    look it up pagan you’ll thank me later.

  • pagansister

    That’s funny, cknuck, can’t make up my mind between 2 different things? When it is important, it has never been a problem in my life. And I’ve already answered your previous question as to why I “keep my foot on both sides”. Oh, thank you for what?

  • pagansister

    “Chaos” over Women, Gays”
    If those creating all that “chaos” (the objections) would just realize that women and gay people aren’t detrimental to their church there would be no problems and all this would be…solved.

  • cknuck

    But women and homosexuals are detrimental to the church; the reality is the church has never been in worse shape. (I never know when to use worst or worse)

  • Mordred08

    “But women and homosexuals are detrimental to the church”
    You’re gonna hate on women now too, ck? That’s just sad.
    “the church has never been in worse shape”
    I guess that period in history when the protestant countries were executing catholics doesn’t count…

  • pagansister

    I ask again, cknuck (knowing the answer I’ll get) HOW are homosexuals detrimental to any church…and WOMEN? Good grief! Let’s see…who else is their….can’t think of any others at this particular moment. (Pagans maybe? :o))

  • cknuck

    Pagan, of course pagans would be a detriment to the church even though you may not believe it you are an affront to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Oh I guess you can believe that you disrespect His deity all the time.
    I will explain to you why women are a detriment to the church. Women are not naturally leaders on that level. There are a few men who can lead on that level but even fewer women. The normal woman is out of her element in the role yet more women are emerging to pursue the position out of necessity. I believe that a huge spiritual shift has happen as people are spiritually deceived and many men are not in their natural roles any longer. I know that family is in jeopardy as long as men are so corrupted and impotent. As for homosexuality and church leadership; homosexuality is mental abnormality, a weakness that can only lead to skewed leadership.

  • pagansister

    cknuck, you continue to amaze me (why I don’t know). Women are out of their element in a spiritual leadership role? Men are natural leaders? This is 2010. Have you any clue how many WOMEN have been and still are leaders of entire countries…successful leaders I might add. (Queens,Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc.) Why is being a minister, bishop or whatever not for women when they are successful in other leadership roles? Or has the Bible got something to say about that too? Just what is the Natural role of women? Baby makers and house keepers? Obviously they can and many do still have children and stay at home…because they want to and can afford to. (I did and worked outside of home when they were older). But there are many who don’t want to and either combine motherhood with work or just have work…including leading churches. (and countries). I totally disagree with you on your position on women in leadership roles in churches. Some of those Men had totally messed up their church leadership….RCC for an example, but other religions also. Think I’ll stick with my disagreement.
    Now just what is the “natural” role of men? Church leadership? Or leading countries? They can and do take on the responsibility of homemakers now…and that is a problem? Does this make men impotent? How? Does the Bible assign roles? Oh..I bet when God made Eve (from Adam’s rib…sure!) he put her in the role of “help mate” . Is this the dictate for distinguishing gender roles?
    Homosexuality is “mental abnormality”. Doctor, where did you get your degree?

  • pagansister

    As to Pagans and Christian churches…If we wanted to lead one, we wouldn’t be Pagans…we’d be Christians, right cknuck?
    As to being an “affront” to the gospel….it is an advice book among many,as I’ve mentioned before. Good advice,some really lousy advice, some racy parts, etc. JC, if indeed he lived, was human. When he died, he died. I respect your right to those beliefs, and to use that book as a guide (or orders for all I know). That just doesn’t do it for me. History has it’s advantanges…Pagans have a long and colorful history. Think I’ll stick with it!
    Hope you’re having a great day! Snow here.

  • cknuck

    I miss the snow but I’ve enjoyed some amazing bike rides this week and of course the mavericks surf contest. You talk about God as if you know things you could not possibly know. Families are in huge trouble currently pagan I don’t know how you cannot see it. The latest news I heard is poly-amorous that is very prominent among young people especially the homosexual community where couples are out and groups are in, it’s a trend that is predictable. There are several outbreaks, (undefined STDs) among S.F. and Atlanta homosexuals that is moving through that population rapidly. Hope belongs to a minority of young folk and a majority have very little. Last week a university professor shot colleagues be of not getting recognition. Youths were shot in church while worshiping

  • pagansister

    cknuck, I understand I think, where you are coming from…about families. However, IMO, there have always been families in trouble, but many times it was whispered about…or kept hidden. “Trouble” perhaps has evolved over time…but troubled families…not new.
    Again with the homosexuals and problems….don’t heterosexual families have problems too?
    Yes, I know about the woman professor killing her colleagues, and all the other bad stuff. I’m actually not blind or living in a cave, cknuck. People have been killing each other since Cain allegedly killed Able. (and probably before). War isn’t new…every generation has the horrible priviledge of getting one…again since time began….cknuck, as awful as all this is …the STD’s (also not new, but preventable and not just spread by homosexuals…really). Life goes on and people deal with it. It can be off set by the good and wonderful things life has to offer. Now you will tell me that not all folks have it good…like I do. True. But doesn’t your Bible tell you that the poor are always going to be with us? Wrong or right….the Bible says that.

  • Mordred08

    cknuck: “There are several outbreaks, (undefined STDs) among S.F. and Atlanta homosexuals that is moving through that population rapidly.”
    That just proves that like other members of the human race, gay people are not immune to stupidity.
    “Last week a university professor shot colleagues be of not getting recognition.”
    I fail to see what that has to do with the LGBT community at all.
    “Youths were shot in church while worshiping”
    Care to give us some details on that? Or are we supposed to take your word for it?

  • cknuck

    Mordred as far as I’m concern you can just get bent, I don’t really care enough for you to pursue any of your rot.

  • http://Wow! Wow!

    Wow! is about all I can saw about the positions espoused by cknuck. Wow!
    Straight out of the 1950s, how the good old days of straight (at least we think so, and ostensibly misogynist), white Anglo-Saxon Protestant males being in-charge was what made the segregated, chauvinistic, anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant good old days good. History is written by the group running the show. So the good old days were good because they were good (and easy) for the straight, WASP males.
    Now with affirmative action and inclusion and multi-culturalis, the straight WASP males have lost their guaranteed in with the system, and now have got to get off their duff and work for their keep like everybody else.
    Now that can’t be good. In fact that’s somehow gotta be evil. In fact it must be the end of days.
    Well, it’s the end of days alright. It’s the end of days of an unjust era where some just got it easy and had a guaranteed leg up over everybody else just because they were born with a penis and a scrotum with testicles in it, and their skin had a low melanocyte density, and then went to the right church with the other good old boys.
    Oh and by the way this is written by a straight, white, male who grew up Catholic and working class and who avoided jail growing up, who served in the military (USMC 10 years), and who kept going to school and is now a doctor and an Episcopalian by choice. As hard as I worked to get where I’ve gotten is hard enough. No one should have it harder than getting out of their own way. Anyone who would suggest it should be automatically harder for someone not them is lazy and greedy, and just wants a racket to not have to divide up the pie with anyone else. For all the energy you all put into keeping that pie to yourself you could make more pies instead, and then empower others to make more pie. Much easier to guard the lone pie instead.
    If you’re claiming that Jesus would want the the bad old days of evil injustice, oppression and suppression of dissent, I suggest you actually take an Epistle and Old Testament holiday and read only the Gospels from now on, and see what you find. Maybe you’ll stop being such a God-awful, Pharisaic “Christian” and have a break-though and become a Jesusist instead. You and the world would be better for it.
    Best of luck to you.

  • pagansister

    WOW! FYI, cknuck is a black male, who (I’m guessing here) is in his 60’s. He served in Viet Nam.

  • Jeshicar

    Actually, we need more community for LGBT like the one my favorite ^^ B i -M-i-n-g-l-e-.-c-o-m ^^ Thus, we can feel home. We can be ourselves without hesitaion.

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