Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


Shocking News! President May Pick Justice Who Agrees With Him

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

I have been amused over the weekend by the “sky is falling” rhetoric of the Right about the impending retirement of David Souter from the Supreme Court. Curiously, Jay, many of your colleagues concede that they don’t like Souter’s record, but all note, as you do, that somebody worse is about to take his seat.  Some echo your post sentiment that this will “set the stage for President Obama to put his liberal stamp on the federal judiciary in a big way”.

Please.  What did you folks expect?  Barack Obama won the election of 2008.  According to the Right, it was elections that gave former President George W. Bush the “right” to put on the courts anybody he wanted.  Did the rules change sometime when I was sleeping?

Let me be clear.  Justice Souter had a very fine record on
pivotal constitutional issues, including the separation of church and
state.  I would expect any Obama nominee to be as good, or better.  It
would be terrific to see a nominee (and then an appointee) who
understands that the Constitution itself is designed to reflect core
values like “justice,” “equal treatment,” “religious liberty” and
“human dignity.”  I’d be absolutely delighted to see a person whose
“heart”–and mind–rest upon those principles.  I would like to see a
nominee whose experience reflects the real world existence of
Americans, instead of simply being lost in the ethereal worlds of
academia or the judiciary.  Some judges never lose sight of reality;
others do so easily.

My fervent hope is that nobody in the Senate or the White House
staff convinces President Obama to do excessive “outreach” to the Right
about this matter.  If you are on a ladder picking apples and you reach
too far for that one piece of fruit (or that one extra Senate vote),
you can come crashing down in the orchard.

By the way, Rich Mullins’ song is exactly the kind of musical exposition that has no place at a public high school graduation.

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Gwyddion9

posted May 4, 2009 at 10:47 pm


And did Former President Bush do no less, himself? It amazes me when i hear such tripe from Republicans and the RR.
I realize that this is sarcasm on your part Barry but doesn’t it simply amaze you when you hear things like this?



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cx

posted May 5, 2009 at 6:18 am


The rules didn’t change.
But the rule still seems to be; “IOKIYAR”.
It’s OK If You’re A Republican.



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Your Name

posted May 5, 2009 at 12:35 pm


The song is still protected speech Barry. If any other student were to pick any secular song it would be protected speech… profanity excluded, of course. When did the mention of a diety become profanity. I must of missed that one… Hmmm. So, if a native american wanted to dance to a traditional tribal song that mentions the great spirit would we discriminate against them and not allow it. It is a slippery slope Barry. Pick your battles wisely, or you might find your own speech prohibited. Freedom means I would defend to the death your right to speak of things that would make my blood boil… but I want my freedom, so I have to be willing to defend yours… It would be nice for you to see the simplicity in that philosophy… but you seek to control and repress freedom like most other liberal socialist thinkers.



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Freestinker

posted May 5, 2009 at 1:23 pm


“The song is still protected speech Barry.”
—————————–
Your Name,
Freedom of speech (and religion) applies to citizens acting in their private capacity, not to the government itself!
Religious expressions are not protected speech in a public school setting when they are given at official school ceremonies and carry the imprimatur of the school (i.e. the gov’t) itself and that is precisely why the religious graduation song is prohibited.
The government has no business sponsoring or endorsing religious opinions of any kind. Prohibiting government interference in all matters of religious opinion is what protects our individual religious liberty.



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KG

posted May 5, 2009 at 1:31 pm


I want to set straight everyone who is claiming that a song that “mentions god” is being banned from a graduation ceremony. The song in question is nothing other than a Christian prayer put to music. A part of it is pasted below:
Save me from those things that might distract me
Please take them away and purify my heart
I don’t want to lose the eternal for the things that are passing
‘Cause what will I have when the world is gone
If it isn’t for the love that goes on and on with
My one thing
You’re my one thing
And the pure in heart shall see God
You’re my one thing
You’re my one thing
And the pure in heart shall see God
Who have I in Heaven but You Jesus
And what better could I hope to find down here on earth
I could cross the most distant reaches
Of this world but I’d just be wasting my time
‘Cause I’m certain already I’m sure I’d find
As you can see, it is not the letters g, o, and d, in that order, that make this song problematic! And performing to it at a planned public school function carries the implication that the school supports or endorses it. In a public school, all of the students are equally entitled to the graduation ceremony, and have the right to attend it without being preached to or feeling marginalized in any way for their beliefs. Furthermore, any “graduation” that I have experienced in school, save for high school graduation (6th- and 8th-grade graduations come to mind), took place during the school day. This means students are required to attend; they are a captive audience. If this is the case, use of the song becomes even more clearly impermissible.
Please stop claiming that the scary left is trying to ban the word “god.” You are oversimplifying the argument and preventing any genuine discussion on the issue, you are misrepresenting the situation (aka “lying”), and frankly you are embarrassing yourselves! If you want to prey, or dance to “My One Thing,” no one is stopping you. Do it on your own time, do it in church, but don’t get upset that an entire public school isn’t going to sit and do it with you. If I may borrow the headline from an earlier post by Mr. Sekulow, “It’s A Graduation Ceremony, Not a Church Service!”



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Akihito

posted May 5, 2009 at 4:21 pm


Wow does no one actually study history around here?!? KG says that WE’RE the ones misrepresenting things. If that’s true then explain to me why the State Capitol in D.C was also used as a Christian church for the Legislative Branch for over 130 years! Or how one of the first acts that President Jefferson did with Congress was ordering the publishing of over 50 Bibles to give to certain Native American tribes all done with tax payer’s money of course. He was supposed to be a Deist of course. Or how the opening prayer for the First Continental Congress not only called God “Our Heavenly Father” but also closed “in the name of Jesus”. Or how our Founding Fathers after a hard week of debating in trying to create our Constitution all went to Christ Church on Sunday in order to hear the Word of God and pray for the country. The same church of course that Ben Franklin and his wife went to EVERY Sunday they could so much so that they had their own assigned seats.
Let’s talk about how Washington gave a copy of the Constitution that Connecticut had to every Founder during the making of the U.S. Constitution as the model we should use. That Constitution of course invoked the Christian God many times and held that religion was vital to moral well being and good government a view that Washington strongly held.
In fact the very idea of our Constitution comes directly from the Bible. The idea that God makes covenants was what directly influenced the Mayflower Compact and other later Constitutions pref. the U.S. one.
I’m sorry but over 95% of our Founding Fathers were devout Bible believing Christians. Read ANY of their primary documents and you will know this. A Univ. of Houston study found that over 35% of our Founder’s writings on the forming of our government and political theory used direct quotes from the Bible in a positive way. The other two biggest writings they used were of Locke (Two Treatises of Government)and Charles de Secondat, baron of Montesquieu who come to find out mainly also used the Bible as their shining example of how government should be. Locke also talked of Biblical Adam as a REAL PERSON and used him for his political theories. In your reasoning a Christian nutjob who believes in myths directly influenced the founding of our government and was greatly loved and respected by our Fathers. Of course I guess they were just stupid Christians and we know soo much more now ;-).
I haven’t even gotten into George Whitfield and other great Christian preachers who directly influenced the Fathers nor the Great Awakening that John Adams himself said was what led to our founding.



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Akihito

posted May 5, 2009 at 4:46 pm


I am soo sick and tired of atheists who get on websites and speak of how Jesus was a myth and how Christianity is “anti-science” as if they have any idea of what they’re even talking about. There is TONS of historical, archaeological, scientific and textual evidence that shows Christianity to be true! Christians aren’t “anti-science”. We just hate it when atheistic naturalistic materialists misuse science in order to rationalize,justify and further their immoral behavior. Science can only tell us about the NATURAL WORLD through controlled experiments. If we had a scientist who was on the scene after Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead there are some things he could tell us. He could talk to eyewitnesses, take multiple samples from the tomb Lazarus was in and from Lazarus himself. He could do a multitude of tests and come to the conclusion that more than likely Lazarus was dead for a period of 3 days and now he’s alive again. What he couldn’t do through science is FIND OUT HOW THE HECK LAZARUS CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD.
Science has no was to put God into a test tube nor tell us much about the supernatural or theological matters. So atheists come along and with their philosophy try and convince people that all there is is the natural world. That’s not science. In fact there actually is a lot of evidence that there is a Creator. The fact that there are over 40 Laws of Physics which govern our Universe and of which if just one, just one of those Laws were slightly changed the whole Universe would completely fall apart. Let’s also not forget evidence from how many factors needed to be right on the money for life to even be on this planet or evidence pertaining to the human conscience or even life after death evidence.
I havent even gotten into the astounding evidence that Jesus actually rose from the grave after being crucified. There is more evidence that he did than Christopher Columbus ever existed. The problem is most people either don’t want to find the Truth for themselves or refuse to believe it when they do



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Kzac

posted May 5, 2009 at 7:44 pm


First the constitution, under article one states “Congress shall make no LAW respecting an establishment of religion. It does not say Congress must separate any and all church activities from any and all government activities.
What is little known is that those fighting against separation of church and state, are all of the doctrine of Hegel. Yep thats correct, they are of a religious doctrine. Hegel’s doctrine is the foundation for all socialism, communism, fascism, Darwinism, humanism and more.
Hegel’s doctrine already has laws written in the United States which force us to establish its religious doctrine. And we see the current administration and congress writing laws daily based on the establishment of this religion. The hide this religion from us, by using focused terms and human emotion. Regardless of these actions. Hegel’s doctrine is a religious doctrine.
Americans need to demand that all laws created which support Hegelian religious doctrine all be rescinded. Further they need to demand that Hegelian doctrine never again be used in law making in the United States.



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Gwyddion9

posted May 5, 2009 at 8:13 pm


I wanted to add this to discussion.
apparently Senator Hatch is telling President Obama no judicial activists.
link: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/04/hatch-to-obama-no-judicial-activist/
Can you say hypocrisy?



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DSJulian

posted May 5, 2009 at 8:43 pm


Akihito: “He could do a multitude of tests and come to the conclusion that more than likely Lazarus was dead for a period of 3 days and now he’s alive again.” What’s wrong with this statement, of course, is that John’s is the only Gospel that even casually mentions this Lazarus character — even though John says Lazarus was so important that half of the people who came to see Jesus came to see the resurrected Lazarus and that the priests conspired to kill him too. This extremely significant event was apparently invisible to the rest of the Apostles or other chroniclers of the day. An honest scientist would have to conclude that some people thought something significant happened, but that there was insufficient evidence to clearly state what actually did happen. Was it mass hysteria? A figment of John’s imagination sixty years later? An intentional fabrication to make Yashua bar Yusef appear to be the awaited Jewish Messiah? Or did it really happen the way the Gospel of St. John portrayed it? Does the “correct” answer change the way you will treat people in the future? All these are valid questions for anyone to ask, including we Christians…



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DSJulian

posted May 5, 2009 at 9:07 pm


Kzac: “What is little known is that those fighting against separation of church and state, are all of the doctrine of Hegel.” What is even littler known is that in 1789 when the Constitution (including the bill of Rights) was adopted, Hegel, who would later become the influential German philosopher, was a child…
The real source of our Constitution was the Constitution of the Netherlands, one of the first to guarantee freedom from religious persecution, and therefore the departure point for many religious dissidents escaping to the New World from the vicious savagery of European Christianity…
This is just another cheap shot at trying to tie something ugly to something truly beautiful



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rich

posted May 6, 2009 at 1:29 am


Akihito,
You state Christianity is true. Nonsense, but feel to prove it anytime. Actually, just to be fun, why don’t we say that your “proofs” would need to stand up to legal standards. You know, not a shadow of a doubt.
As for Lazarus, the reason a scientist couldn’t say why it happened would be that it didn’t happen.
You also figure atheists to be immoral people. My take is that it is generally the religious folks on the planet who need some basic skills in morality. Just my opinion though with no factual weight behind it. Just like your opinion.
You end your screed with a statement that you pull from the ether, “most people either don’t want to find the Truth”. Wow, you know that? Only you, the perfect and superior being, is interested in the truth. Wow, only you and your fellow Christians! Kind of arrogant don’t you think for you to presume what other people are doing in their lives. Just my opinion here but maybe that kind of ridiculous assumption is the reason why people recoil from your brand of nonsense. Personally, I would think you would be better off to assume that people are sufficiently intelligent to determine their own cosmological viewpoint. Likely, they don’t need any undue pressure from you jumping up and down and whining that everyone needs to love your Jesus and if they don’t they are bad and icky people.
Dude, you can believe anything you want. I just plain don’t care. However, keep your nonsense away from my children; it is just plain bad for them. I am serious. As well, don’t ever expect a fraction of a penny of my taxes to be used to support your nonsense.
I will eagerly await your astounding proofs of Christianity.
Yeah, right!



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Mary-Lee

posted May 6, 2009 at 9:20 am


Science can only tell us about the NATURAL WORLD through controlled experiments.
There are traditional stories dating from ancient times that say both gods and men were resurrected and even reconstructed after their bones were scattered. Do you believe those stories too?
The natural world is all we have. Let’s learn to live well in the natural world instead of worrying about living in some hereafter.



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Your Name

posted May 6, 2009 at 9:26 am


I can’t believe the things I’m reading, and from a man with “Rev.” before his name. I have looked over your blog posts and have visited your website and I’m amazed at what I’ve seen. I’d like to know just which god you serve. It’s certainly not the God of the Bible and you know it!



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Akihito

posted May 8, 2009 at 7:04 am


Wow Rich you go from one end saying that I’m arrogant by saying I’m interested in the truth while most people aren’t and then you totally back up my point by saying that you simply don’t care. And Mary-Lee the stories that you were talking about (Examples of Osiris and Mythris) are absolutely NOT the same as the Resurrection account as told in the Gospels. Those stories are myth passed down from over hundreds of years. Read just a few of them side by side with ANY of the Gospels and you will see a major difference. C.S. Lewis wrote about this himself. He knew about myths because he had read so many of them. He was a literary critic after all and he said as strong as possible that the Gospels were in no ways myths. The idea of Jesus being a raised god myth comes from 19th century German liberal theology and has been completely discredited and shown to be false. The sad thing is with the internet any high school atheist can get on here and repeat the same nonsense over and over until countless atheists use it as a talking point without even having any idea what they’re even saying.
The idea that the raising of Lazarus being a made up story also goes strongly against evidence. The writings of the Church Fathers, a few who were actually taught under John wrote that he wrote his Gospel to complement the other three. His gospel dealt most with the deity of Christ and selected events from His life that dealt most with who Jesus actually was in His fullest sense i.e the literal Word of God. John was an eyewitness to these events and there’s absolutely NO evidence to support that he either fabricated or outright lied in any way anything that he wrote down. There is also no evidence that the other Apostles didn’t know about Lazarus. You are mainly making an argument of absence. About no other writings, I’m afraid this is part of an argument that atheists and crackpots make not realizing how much the invention of the printing press has changed our views on how fast information gets spread. Communication wasn’t nearly as fast in 30A.D. I mean we hardly know anything about the Roman Emperor Tiberius during that time period.
The fact is we have over 5,000 ancient greek manuscripts of the NT that PROVES everything was written from around 49AD to before 70AD except for Revelation which is 95AD. That means no hundreds of years for the Gospels to be myth. We also know the disciples said they saw the risen Jesus multiple times along with over 500 witnesses at once! These men (except for John who was also persecuted many times) were also all tortured and killed because they refused to recant this. No suffers torture and death willingly for a lie!!! Even skeptics who didn’t believe in Jesus said that they saw Him risen and became followers. Frankly there’s far too much textual, historical and archeological evidence that very very strongly shows that the Gospels are not only not myths but the most reliable texts of the ancient world. If the Gospel accounts aren’t true then there is absolutely no reliability in what we’ve learned about ancient history.



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Akihito

posted May 8, 2009 at 7:26 am


I still stand by what I said about most people not wanting to know about the Truth Rich. I have heard the same old tired arguments from people over and over again. The “intellectual” and naturalistic materialistic atheist bashes anyone who believes in Christianity as stupid, anti-science, ignorant etc. The post-modern relativist (mainly made up of college kids and old liberal hippies) labels Christians as intolerant, racist, sexist homophobes. Of course these are the same people who say there is no right or wrong yet then label your views as “wrong” when it doesn’t agree with their liberal moral agenda. Then there are the New Age people ala Oprah who want to make themselves God and deny any of the dogma or morality and rules of Christianity. They pretty much want a Twinkie religion. The last major group are those that think that good deeds, knowledge or religion in general will lead to salvation. Every other Religion besides Christianity is man-centered. It’s based on how many good deeds a person does. Christianity is God-centered. Frankly rich, mary beth, myself and all of humanity are evil at heart and are God haters. God loves us because He is love and He created us in His image but He is also Holy and Just. He has to punish our wickedness but that means eternal separation from Him. So Jesus is God showing us the He wants us to spend an eternity with Him and that He took the punishment for our sins that we deserve. It’s the same as being found guilty in a court of law and being sentenced to death yet the judge steps down and takes the punishment that you rightly deserve letting you go free. That’s what God did through His Word made sinless flesh, Jesus.



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Mary-Lee

posted May 8, 2009 at 9:08 am


And Mary-Lee the stories that you were talking about (Examples of Osiris and Mythris) are absolutely NOT the same as the Resurrection account as told in the Gospels. Those stories are myth passed down from over hundreds of years.
If you look at traditional oral stories seriously, you will find that they survive with remarkable accuracy. You seem to believe that just because a story is written down, it’s valid. I believe oral history has the same validity, if not more.
While the ancients may not have understood what they observed, we can certainly say that something extraordinary happened.
Something extraordinary happened with the story of Lazarus, too, at least in the context of the time in which it happened. But you weren’t there and should not judge that story as accurate “scientifically” just because it was written down.



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Mary-Lee

posted May 8, 2009 at 9:29 am


The post-modern relativist (mainly made up of college kids and old liberal hippies) labels Christians as intolerant, racist, sexist homophobes.
Oh, believe me, the post-modern relativists as you call them see many others besides Christians as intolerant, racist, sexist and homophobic. They also understand that not every Christian has these characteristics.
Why don’t you examine your own conscience and think about whether or not you are intolerant, racist, sexist or homophobic? If not, go your way… and stop calling yourself evil at heart.



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Akihito

posted May 8, 2009 at 3:35 pm


That is good Mary-Lee if you’re a Jew to know about the passing down of oral history. They used very good repetition and memory tech. to remember the Tanakh and at the very least the Torah. That is a very good point that I had forgotten about. I was mainly talking about the textual reliability of the NT and how the very small time period that the Apostles had to write down the NT meant that there was very little time nor chance to mythologize the NT but we forget that people in the ancient world had much better memories then most of us do today.
But Mary-Lee you need to get a book that just came out called Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto by Mark Levin, J.D. He lays a great argument in a chapter, “On Faith and the Founding” for how Statists are using Secular religionists in a ploy to turn this country into a government state. In 1947, in the case Everson v. Board of Education, Associate Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black aserted that The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.” Of course the reason he believed this is that he was actually a KKK member who hated Catholics and felt the church and the pope had too much power and property by exploiting the poor. I also enjoy this piece of information
“Chief Justice William Rehnquist argued in 1985, in the case Wallace v. Jaffree, “The [First Amendment’s] Establishment Clause did not require government neutrality between religion and irreligion nor did it prohibit the Federal Government from providing nondiscriminatory aid to religion. There is simply no historical foundation for the proposition that the Framers intended to build a ‘wall of separation’ that was constitutionalized in Everson.”” Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38, 107 (1985) (Rehnquist, J., dissenting).



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Cliff Snoates

posted May 9, 2009 at 2:37 pm


“It’s certainly not the God of the Bible and you know it!”
So what? Doesn’t America ‘promise’ all its citizens freedom of religion? What about the God of the Q’uran? What of Buddhist Americans’ beliefs? Or Hindus? Or Taoists? Raelians? Shintoists? What of the God of the Book of Kells?
Such arrogance.
And seeing words like “God”, “Jesus” and “heaven” in a song sure makes it sound religious. I’m with those who ask, “What is this, a graduation ceremony or a (your kind of Christian) church service?”.



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N. Lindzee Lindholm

posted December 3, 2009 at 11:10 pm


Rich Mullins’ song has every right to take place at a public high school graduation. It is student led, number one. In addition, the songs spiritual effect is benign, not coercing or forcing anyone to participate in prayer or a religious exercise. Her rights were protected by the First Amendment.



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Previous Posts

Another Blog To Enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting LynnvSekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow: Faith and Justice  Happy Reading!

posted 11:26:38am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Another blog to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Lynn V. Sekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow's Faith and Justice Happy Reading!!!

posted 10:36:04am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

More to Come
Barry,   It's hard to believe that we've been debating these constitutional issues for more than two years now in this space.  I have tremendous respect for you and wish you all the best in your new endeavors.   My friend, I'm sure we will continue to square off in other forums - on n

posted 4:52:22pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Thanks for the Memories
Well Jay, the time has come for me to say goodbye. Note to people who are really happy about this: I'm not leaving the planet, just this blog.As I noted in a personal email, after much thought, I have decided to end my participation and contribution to Lynn v. Sekulow and will be doing some blogging

posted 12:24:43pm Nov. 21, 2010 | read full post »

President Obama: Does He Get It?
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posted 11:46:49am Nov. 05, 2010 | read full post »




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