Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


Liberty University to Democratic Students: Drop Dead

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

Jay, just a few days ago I was a participant in an event on “church politicking” at the National Press Club here in Washington.  The event was reported by your friends over at the Christian Broadcasting Network.  The focus of that afternoon was principally on whether pastors do or do not have the right to endorse candidates in sermons.  The Tax Code suggests they do not–and I argued that was the correct position.

Today, the Washington Post reports that Liberty University, founded by the late Dr. Jerry Falwell, has just terminated the right of the Democratic student club to be recognized at the university.  Effectively, Liberty has declared itself a Democratic Party-free zone.  This is quite shocking, violating basic tenets of free speech, free association, and even religious liberty (can’t you be a Democrat and religious?). 

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Perhaps just as significantly, this seems to violate the principle that tax exempt universities cannot engage in partisan political activity.  Americans United had filed a complaint with the IRS back in December of 2007 when the current Liberty chancellor, and son of the founder, sent out an email endorsement of then-candidate Mike Huckabee for the Republican presidential nomination.  With the boot now given to the Democrats Club on campus, it looks like we have mounting evidence of a pattern of partisan, pro-Republican conduct.

I hope you will join me in calling this what it is: ill-advised, unlawful censorship of student speech.  The university from whose law school  your son graduated this year (congratulations there), Regent University, permits a Democrats club as it should and, indeed, I believe, must.



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hootie1fan

posted May 22, 2009 at 6:02 pm


As a private school, Liberty University has the right to terminate the campus Democrats. At the same time the rest of the world has the right to know that LU is academically irrelevant.



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Gwyddion9

posted May 22, 2009 at 6:19 pm


Honestly, i cannot say I’m surprised by this action.
It appears, to me, that since the Republican Party and the RR have lost a lot of power in Government, they have been seeking to consolidate their power base. This action shows that they do not want to work out any political/religious issues, they only want it their way. I guess on a positive note, this action by Liberty University clearly shows where they stand on political/religious matters but I must also say in all fairness, it is their University, so they can do as they want, though I would check into what kind of financial assistance they receive from the Government. Perhaps this needs to be reconsidered.
The past eight years under Former President Bush as showed us what happens when you mix politics and religion, specifically the Republican Party and the RR.
Perhaps they do not recognize the fact that people are tired of the lies and the acts of justification that all have endured.
Their acts have been cold and callused towards anyone or group that didn’t meet their political/religious litmus test. Thus, this is one of many reasons the Democratic Party gained so much control in the Government and I can only hope they will be far wiser in their actions but time will tell.
And now Liberty University has banned the Democratic Club because it doesn’t fit their political/religious agenda. I guess that one can only be a Christian and Republican.
Jerry Falwell alluded to the same concept when her remarked that if one is Christian, then must also be patriotic and ergo, assumes that the reverse is also true, as well.



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JohnC

posted May 22, 2009 at 7:27 pm


On top of being blatantly anti-liberty, “Liberty” University can’t even properly represent the platform of the Democratic Party. The Democrats aren’t “pro-abortion,” as the letter from the university asserts. (Just what exactly is that supposed to mean, anyway?) Rather, they support a different approach to the issue, in that it should be the decision of the woman, not the state, as to how to resolve the issue on an individual level. This isn’t an endorsement of abortion – but it’s a mature recognition of the reality that society is – and will remain – fundamentally divided on what constitutes a rights-bearing human being that overrides the rights of the mother to control her own reproductive capacity. Even people opposed to abortion may believe that criminalization is not a wise approach.



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Your Name

posted May 23, 2009 at 7:08 am


I bet dollars to navy beans that this has implications with respect to government funding and tax exempt status.
Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of the IRS!



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Craig

posted May 23, 2009 at 12:00 pm


The term Liberty University has proven to be an oxymoron.It provides neither liberty nor knowledge. This just proves it.



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Scott M.

posted May 23, 2009 at 3:49 pm


Mr. Lynn and Mr. Sekulow,
A sincere question. My understanding is that LU is a 501(c)(3) tax exempt entity. I agree with Mr. Lynn that this action by LU seems at odds with the politically non-partisan requirement to remain tax-exempt. I’d like to know if you both agree and more importantly from my view point, what is the proper way to report this to the IRS. I would love, LOVE, to have their tax exempt status pulled. Also, what has the IRS done about the complaint about their explicit partisan endorsement of Mike Huckabee in the previous election?
Thanks.
Scott



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M. VanderArk

posted May 23, 2009 at 8:01 pm


I’m pretty sure that the democratic party is supporting a lot of issues that show blatant ignorance to the Bible and its’ believers. Taking such non Christian based (bad Bible interpretational) stances on these issues can only create more descention between them and the republican party. Thus, republican Christians having to take a stand from “Bible ignorant” Christians is a must. Everyone are sinners, Bible believers or not. However, that does not give means to be ignorant of the Bible and what it says. Our country was based on Judeo Christian morals and views. The minute these are attacked, is the minute that Bible believing groups as “Liberty” stand up for God and their rights as United States citizens. Our founding fathers say themselves that the moment our Judeo Christian morals and views are exempt from are way of governing our government will collapse “as we have known it”. The Bible says that God will not prosper a nation either, who does not follow him. If history is correct, and it usually is, he wreaks havoc on these nations. Liberty is taking an issue and moral stand because of what the democratic party has become and supports. Totally acceptable from this bible believing Christian.



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HWR

posted May 23, 2009 at 9:12 pm


A quote from the National Press Club debate:
Clearly this violates the Establishment clause which prohibits excessive government entanglement with religion.
Could it not be argued that giving churches – any church, for any reason – tax exempt status excessively entangles government with religion?



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Your Name

posted May 23, 2009 at 11:56 pm


I am a christian and I voted democrate in the previous election. When I stand before the Lord I really don’t think the fact that I voted for Barack Obama will be an issue.



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ABC

posted May 24, 2009 at 12:09 am


Yeah, it would be cool if every church had no incentive to not be part of some political machine.



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DSJulian

posted May 24, 2009 at 3:42 am


Liberty University, like most of the wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Republic-Fascist Party, is doing us all a favor. They no longer have to be investigated because they have admitted to violating the conditions of their tax-exempt status. Read the article. They did not do this out of some overriding moral principle. They did it because of threats of defunding by their investors. This is just another in a long line of public embarrassments to the Chrstian cause when Biblical morality gets diverted into a political firestorm…



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Rich

posted May 24, 2009 at 11:28 am


HWR,
I am one who agrees that no church should have a tax-exempt status. Giving such a privilege to any group denotes an implied government approval of that group. It is not the government’s business to be deciding that a church is somehow more worthy of special benefits than a commercial enterprise. I view the government granting any preference to religion as “an establishment of religion”, something prohibited by our Constitution. In fact, I would think a business, that provides income and benefits to employees while making goods and services available to the public, has a far greater benefit to a community than a church ever could.



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Boris

posted May 24, 2009 at 4:04 pm


Rich,
“Religion supports nobody. It has to be supported… It is a perpetual mendicant. It lives on the labors of others, and then has the arrogance to pretend that it supports the giver. – Robert G, Ingersoll (1833-1899)



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Mary-Lee

posted May 24, 2009 at 8:29 pm


The Bible says that God will not prosper a nation either, who does not follow him.
So what you are saying is that you follow Christianity because you want to prosper.
Strange. The apostles didn’t prosper. Most of them were killed. How about that?



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M. VanderArk

posted May 24, 2009 at 10:30 pm


If we are all realistic here, there is no separation of church and state. Just ask the aclu… They seem to prove that a lot? Christians are not arrogant. Believers have something very special granted to them by God, salvation. These people are a tightly woven group. However, they are not vengeful or hateful to others. Christians celebrate a joyful religion with God and there own. They do not shut out people who don’t believe the same as them. And, they also stick up for moral issues, which seem to be affecting them more and more negatively with each piece of legislation passed by our government. As with “anyone”, there are sinners. They come in forms of republicans, believers, democrats and unbelievers. To label a group of “them” as republican, democratic, believing, unbelieving is false. Everyone is in the same boat. To characterize a group of people (shall we say Christians) as something, from others bad judgement or sin, is not right. Said previously there are bad eggs in every sect of faith and government. I think believers tend to congregate around the republican party because of some of the moral stands they take, compared to the democratic party. However, this is not true of everyone, obviously! I know many democratic Christians, and vise versa. That is what you could call the “new” separation of church and state. Checks and balances. Yes, Liberty might have been swayed for money reasons. Christians are compelled to support each-other. When Newsweek runs a front page article saying “The Decline and Fall Of Christian America” you better believe Christians are going to be heard of. You better believe a voice of Christianity will declare when it is mocked and scorned. The fascisim going on in our government right now, both parties alike, is sickening. The reason we are weaker as a nation, the reason we get more and more in debt, the reason we pollute this earth, and destroy its’ people, and the reason we are getting more corrupt in Govt. is… The decline and fall of Christian America. That “scholar” was right, Religion does not support people. That gentleman does not know, God supports us. It is called faith in Christ and his divine intervention. Christian will continue to support each other through God’s divine intervention. Don’t forget, give to Ceasar what is Ceasars. Even though Christians are self supporting, they do pay taxes. Everyone does, except for “some”. God’s love does not need to be taxed, as worshipping him does not either. My dear Mary, everyone has a time to pass. People, good people die from others sin and selfishness daily. The bible speaks of many Christians as being martyrs of there faith. They do not do this to themselves. God gives every man the choice to make there own decisions, and yes, bad decisions were made and are made every day. Think if everyone made right decisions, it would be a little different (freaky) don’t you think? The deciples were killed out of hate from others. They taught love, and people did not like that. There are many today that can associate with that concept. They ultimately went on to a better place, I would call that prospering. God is smart enough to prosper whomever. I know many unhappy prosperous people.



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Dan Hughes

posted May 25, 2009 at 8:36 am


I live in central Va and ocassionall see the giant LU defacing the mountain it rests on. A degree from Liberty University is only slightly more valuable than a Cracker Jack prize in the real world and of ZERO Value outside the United States. The students who’s parents are funding their Liberty vacation are wasting their money on this fake school.



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Nancy

posted May 25, 2009 at 9:53 am


As a private school, “Liberty” has the right to exclude anyone. As a private school, they have the right to do so with THEIR OWN money. I really hope that this schools is not getting one thin dime of tax payer money for any reason. Also, since they seem to be getting very partisan here, I hope the IRS investigates their eligibility for tax exempt status.



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J. Hartson

posted May 25, 2009 at 4:21 pm


I agree with M. VanderArk. No matter what your political beliefs are we are all people. We may hyave different views,but that is what freedom is all about. God will someday be the judge of right and wrong.



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M. VanderArk

posted May 25, 2009 at 9:29 pm


There is a lot of hate here. And, characterization that every student may represent what Liberty stands for. Or , Liberty stands for what every student stands for. Liberty will answer for what they do as an entity, and that is up to their council. The students will answer for what they believe personally with God himself on judgement day, not to the government. They have know responsibility here. I sense the “hatefulness” of Liberty is connected with a central theme from the haters themselves. It is too bad, because Liberty is a loving school, and open to all students and their beliefs. I know of atheist who go there, Christians whom just enrolled at the age of 34 like me. And, people who don’t really know what they believe. I think if you look at the graduation numbers, and the success of the student, many would be readily surprised. Their college is growing by 1000 students over the past several years. Enough of this for me, I cannot answer to hate anymore. I was just trying to have an open perspective. Hate is something within, and I cannot persuade it from people. Them alone can only choose not to hate. There are many fine schools out there, who’s mission statements and beliefs are not exactly what I would follow. But, I will not hate (trash talk) those schools for their stances, I just will not support them.



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Belleroguy

posted May 26, 2009 at 2:29 am


In the fall of 1973, after a year of attending the early incarnation of Liberty University (then called Lynchburg Baptist College), I made the decision not to return. Not wanting another semester of living on a flood-prone island in the middle of the James River, sleeping in one of 40 bunk beds in an open dorm that served in the summer months as sleeping quarters for Jerry’s Thomas Road Baptist Church children’s camp, or having to walk across the island’s only bridge because it was too unsafe for a church bus full of LBC students, I overcame my brainwashed conscience and fled back home to Maryland. My Christian father was heartbroken but he and I eventually came to agree that I did the right thing.
My how things (seem to) have changed at Liberty. The “Moonie” cult which we were taught was an abomination became the salvation of the University in the mid-1990s. Where attending “Hollywood movies” (which means ANY movie, including Disney films) was forbidden in the 70s, by the mid-1980s the three Star Wars films were shown on campus at an alumni reunion. And the once hell-bound believers of the Book of Mormon along with the idolatrous Roman Catholics who worship Jesus’ mother Mary were not only welcomed into the Moral Majority but are today looked upon as fellow soldiers in the war against Satan and his Antichrist, as “personified” by President Obama.
Be not deceived. The school and its leaders have not changed. In their desire for political power they have compromised nearly all of their previously-stated, “Bible-based” principles so that Liberty U. can become, as Falwell, Sr. hoped, the Independent Baptist equivalent of Notre Dame. They still believe Moonies, Catholics, Mormons, Hollywood movie makers/attendees, liberals, Democrats, homos, Teletubbies, non-Messianic Jews, feminists, etc are going to eventually wind up in Hell. And although they probably pray for their souls, in the meantime they don’t mind using the money and numbers of these unbelievers in their epic battle against the forces of Evil (namely those who question authority and have an open mind). The Liberty Democratic students are, unfortunately, collateral damage.



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Husband

posted May 26, 2009 at 9:44 am


Rev’d.Lynn,
“I hope you will join me in calling this what it is: ill-advised, unlawful censorship of student speech.”
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Jay to “join” with you in this if I were you.



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Your Name

posted May 26, 2009 at 9:52 am


M. VanderArk,
“Liberty is a loving school, and open to all students and their beliefs.”
I do believe that bearing false witness is still a sin.



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M. VanderArk

posted May 26, 2009 at 2:50 pm


Liberty University is a distinctly Christian university with a stated mission of training Champions for Christ. It is the largest and fastest growing evangelical University in the world. Students and parents appreciate and support the values of the University.
 
Officially recognized student clubs and organizations that bear the name of Liberty University are expected to uphold the standards and principles of the University and act in a manner consistent with its mission. For nearly two years the University has been evaluating how best to advance its mission and to support student organizations. In order to avoid the problems encountered by other faith-based educational institutions involving student organizations, Liberty University has adopted a policy that governs such groups.
 
The policy states, in part: “No student club or organization shall be approved, recognized or permitted to meet on campus, advertise, distribute or post materials, or use University facilities if the statements, positions, doctrines, policies, constitutions, bylaws, platforms, activities or events of such club or organization, its parent, affiliate, chapter or similarly named group are inconsistent or in conflict with the distinctly Christian mission of the University.”
 
Among other things, Liberty University stands for the sanctity of human life. The loss of human life through abortion is a great tragedy and we cannot remain silent when the political policies or politicians promote the destruction of innocent human life. While students may meet on campus, debate, and discuss important and controversial issues of the day, Liberty University will not lend its name or fund organizations whose stated purpose is to promote and advance issues that are contrary to its Christian mission.
 
Over the last several decades, Democratic clubs have existed at Liberty University as unofficial student clubs not endorsed by the school. Last Fall, the College Democrats asked that the university officially recognize their club. They promised to support only pro-life candidates and their charter provides that the club supports the right to life.  Unfortunately, the club supported candidates over the last 8 months that support abortion rights. As a result, Liberty University converted the club’s status back to that of an unrecognized club. It was not banned as so many press outlets irresponsibly reported.  The club can continue to exist and meet on campus like other clubs and student groups that are not officially recognized by the university. They cannot use Liberty University’s name, will not receive the small financial subsidy that officially recognized clubs receive (about $500 per year on average) and they cannot hold public events on campus. There will be no other restrictions on their activities. Liberty University encourages free speech and open debate on its campus and free speech will not be restricted.
 
Liberty University is not singling out the Democratic Party in this action. If a Republican club supporting abortion sought endorsement from the University, it would be denied.  The sanctity of life is one of Liberty University’s non-negotiable core values and it simply cannot lend its name or financial support to any group that actively works against Liberty’s core values.
 
A student club of Democrats who are pro-life and pro-family, and who are seriously intent on bringing positive change to the Democratic Party, would be refreshing. But the rhetoric must match the actions, meaning that such a club seeking official recognition would not want to endorse policies or candidates contrary to Liberty’s mission. Such a group should state in its’ name its’ distinctive mission to immediately tell the world that this club stands for the core values of Liberty University.
 
We hope that our students bring positive change to all political parties, not just Democrats, but also Republicans and Independents. These groups could debate many topics, but agree on Liberty’s core values. Liberty will not lend its name and financial support to any club or organization that actively seeks to undermine the mission of the University and its core values.
From Marc-
“Your name”, The bible says everyone are sinners, atheist and Christians alike. Christianity does not close doors on those who do not believe the same. Christ, in the bible talked and walked with those who were sinners and Christians alike. Even though it was totally unacceptable to the people to do so at that time. He did not , however, compromise his views or moral activity with reference to his Christian beliefs, when doing this. In other words, He said what he said, and believed what he believed, But he did not hate or block out while doing so.



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Craig

posted May 26, 2009 at 9:48 pm


M. VanderArk has said:
“Our country was based on Judeo Christian morals and views.”
This is a lie that the religious right continues to try to perpetuate. This country was founded on principles that exist in many different traditions and teachings, some of which precede christianity. The intent of the founding fathers was clearly to ensure freedom of religion by preventing religious involvement in government affairs and vice versa.
He also noted that Liberty’s policy states:
“The policy states, in part: “No student club or organization shall be approved, recognized or permitted to meet on campus, advertise, distribute or post materials, or use University facilities if the statements, positions, doctrines, policies, constitutions, bylaws, platforms, activities or events of such club or organization, its parent, affiliate, chapter or similarly named group are inconsistent or in conflict with the distinctly Christian mission of the University.””
This policy is perfectly acceptable for a private organization, as long as they don’t expect government funding to support this type of discrimination. The government should not be in the position of providing funding, or even favorable tax treatment, to organizations that violate constitutional rights to free speech.
Liberty University is a vehicle that Jerry Falwell, and now his son, use for their own self aggrandizement and to support their lavish lifestyles. It is amazing to me the number of suckers that listen to these snake oil salesman “preachers” who continue to say that the reason that people aren’t successful is because they don’t give enough to their church. Does anyone really think that god would reward you for, or even care about, giving money to someone like Jerry Falwell?



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Blindmice

posted May 27, 2009 at 1:20 am


Liberty University, an ironic name. Who is the president, kim jong-il?



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Mary-Lee

posted May 27, 2009 at 8:30 am


Well, extreme Christians have to have a university to send their kids where their own values will not be challenged… and a fool and his money soon part company.
So let Liberty throw out the Democrats or the Republicans or anyone else they don’t like. Just don’t let them do it on my dime.



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M. VanderArk

posted May 27, 2009 at 9:22 am


If you think this is extreme Mary, you haven’t seen a lot em! Christianity is extreme, extreme love for God!



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M. VanderArk

posted May 27, 2009 at 9:23 am


And, likewise Mary, likewise.



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M. VanderArk

posted May 27, 2009 at 9:36 am


“The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time.” –Thomas Jefferson
For all of our nation’s history, there have been tactical battles between opposing political ideologies — liberals (leftists) who want to liberate us from constitutional rule of law, and conservatives who strive to conserve rule of law. Great political capital has been, and continues to be, expended by the Left in order to offend our Constitution, and by the Right in order to defend it.
Amid the din and rhetoric of the current lineup of tactical contests, I ask that you venture up to the strategic level and consider a primal issue that transcends all the political noise.
How many times have you heard the rejoinder, “Religion and politics don’t mix”?
Most Americans have, for generations now, been inculcated (read: “dumbed down”) by the spurious “wall of separation” metaphor and believe that it is a legitimate barrier between government and religion. So effective has been this false indoctrination that even some otherwise erudite conservatives fail to recall that religion and politics not only mix, but are inseparable.
Recall that our Founders affirmed in the Declaration of Independence “that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
In other words, our Creator bestowed the rights enumerated in our Declaration and, by extension, as codified in its subordinate guidance, our Constitution. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are natural rights; they are not gifts from government.
To that end, Alexander Hamilton wrote, “The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for, among old parchments, or musty records. They are written, as with a sun beam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power.”
But the Left has, for many decades, made its primary objective the eradication of God from every public quarter, and routinely relied on judicial activism to undermine constitutional rule of law and, thus, the natural rights of man.
The intended consequence of this artificial barrier between church and state is to remove knowledge of our Creator from all public forums and, thus, over time, to disabuse belief in a sovereign God and the natural rights He has endowed.
This erosion of knowledge about the origin of our rights has dire implications for the future of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson wrote, “Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.”
As the author of our Declaration of Independence makes clear, we should all tremble that man has adulterated the gifts of God.
Ironically, it was Jefferson who penned the words “wall of separation between church and state” in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association.
Jefferson was responding to a letter the Association wrote to him objecting to Connecticut’s establishment of Congregationalism as its state church. Jefferson responded that the First Amendment prohibited the national (federal) government from establishing a “national church.”
After all, the controlling language (Amendment I) reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” Jefferson concluded rightly that the Constitution’s 10th Amendment federalism provision prohibited the national government from interfering with matters of state governments — a “wall of separation,” if you will, between the federal government and state governments.
Among all our Founders, Jefferson was most adamant in his objection to the construct of the Judicial Branch of government in the proposed Constitution, writing, “The Constitution [would become] a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary which they may twist and shape into any form they please.”
Jefferson warned: “The opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves in their own sphere of action but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch. … It has long been my opinion … that the germ of dissolution of our federal government is in the constitution of the federal judiciary; working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief, over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall be usurped.”
Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist No. 81, “[T]here is not a syllable in the [Constitution] which directly empowers the national courts to construe the laws according to the spirit of the Constitution.”
But Jefferson was correct in his apprehension about our Constitution being treated as “a mere thing of wax” by what he called the “despotic branch,” who would do the bidding of their special-interest constituencies rather than interpret the plain language of the Constitution.
In 1947, Justice Hugo Black perverted Jefferson’s words when Black speciously opined in the majority opinion of Everson v. Board of Education that the First Amendment created a “wall of separation” between religion and government, thus opening the floodgates for subsequent opinions abolishing religious education and expression in all public forums.
John Adams wrote, “If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave.”
It may not be in the power of man to alienate the gift of liberty, but it will certainly take the power of men, guided by our Creator, to defend it. To that end, religion and politics are inseparable.
Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!
Mark Alexander



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Kel

posted May 27, 2009 at 3:36 pm


I was just told that Liberty did NOT ban the democrats. See Mr. Falwell’s statement on the Liberty University website.



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Boris

posted May 28, 2009 at 2:42 am


M. VanderArk,
We have freedom FROM religion in this country. There is nothing in our Constitution that mentions Christianity. But even if there were science has completely debunked the Bible and all Christian lies and superstitions since our nation was founded. In other words your evil and false religion has been exposed for what it is. Mixing Christianity with politics last happened in Nazi Germany. I think people have learned their lessons about just how dangerous your evil religion really is.



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Timothy Mays

posted May 29, 2009 at 10:27 am


Wake up, Mr. Lynn. Democrats do this all the time, only worse. They bully and intimidate and threaten and even assault conservatives on college campuses all across the country–simply because they don’t like conservative views and voices.
So, stop whining. Turnabout is fair play. And, private universities are not taxpayer owned and can do whatever they please.



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Boris

posted May 30, 2009 at 1:18 am


Timothy Mays and I suppose the reason none of us have ever heard of any incidents involving Democrats bullying or assaulting conservatives on campuses is because the liberal media just doesn’t report juicy stories that help boost their ratings because their ideology is more important to them than money. What incidents exactly? Name ‘em and claim ‘em.



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RWG

posted May 30, 2009 at 12:50 pm


I hope that fellow Christians will begin to concern themselves more with the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ rather than the teachings of men, Minor Prophets, and modern day Pharisees. I for one, am much more concerned with THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT than the sermon from Thomas Road Baptist church. In this instance – if we must bring politics into the church – one should compare the policies of each political party in relation to Christ’s Sermon on the Mount.
Republican Party: Lies – Empowering the rich while taking advantage of and ignoring the poor – War without cause- Torture- Alliances with Evangelical leaders in order to obtain votes in exchange for power (we still have Abortion and Gay People after 8 years of Republican rule) – Intolerance. Doesn’t sound “Christ-like” to me!
These days, the Democratic Party seems to be more in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ, especially with regard to President Obama’s most recent speech on Abortion:
“let’s work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions by reducing unintended pregnancies, and making adoption more available, and providing care and support for women who do carry their child to term. Let’s honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion, and draft a sensible conscience clause, and make sure that all of our health care policies are grounded in clear ethics and sound science, as well as respect for the equality of women.” Contraception? Care and Support for the least of us? Ethics? Obviously, Obama must be the “anti-christ”!
According to the “Church and University of Falwell”, we should simply condemn women who find themselves in such a predicament… Problem Solved! Praise God!
Regarding the other issue that seems to monopolize a great deal of time, energy, and thought in the spiritual capitol of the USA…Lynchburg (VA). Although it is not really discussed by Christ, the closest reference to the existence of Gay People is part of verse in the book of Mathew (a primary source mind you) regarding divorce: (Mathew 19:12) “For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriagec because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” A translation and cultural study of “eunuchs” as a category reveals startling truths, inferring that Christ was speaking of the very gay people so many religious leaders continue to condemn. Through elaboration and embellishment rooted in the writings of men and Minor Prophets commenting on social-cultural traditions and church doctrine, the “Church and University of Falwell” has maligned and condemned millions of human beings (gay people) as “sinners in the first degree”. There have always been gay people and there will always be gay people in every society (just as in the day of Jesus Christ and before). How we as Christians treat gay people is the test – another failure of “Falwellism.”
As Christians, we are commanded to show Love and Compassion!
Again, the words of our Lord Jesus Christ: (Mathew 7:1) “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Today, the “Church and University of Falwell” has created a whole new class of “sinner” they call Democrats. The very same family that has used the Christian Faith to amass power and millions through the creation of a family business –aka Thomas Road Baptist Church, bilked unwitting college students out of millions under the guise of a “4th tier” education – aka Liberty University, isolated out of context biblical passages in an effort to create their own “truth,” solidly aligned themselves with a political party for personal financial and political gain, has now – once again – narrowed their list of who is worthy and who is not.
Lest we forget – the actual words of our Lord Jesus Christ: (Mathew 7:15) “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits.”
Let’s make a list of fruit: Manipulation – Quest for Personal Power and Money – Intolerance – Condemnation – Self Righteousness…
Sounds like another group of Religious Leaders Christ himself famously chastised – PHARASEES!



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Peter S. Chamberlain

posted May 30, 2009 at 10:35 pm


With the exception of one poster who says that aome unidentified person told him that Liberty University has not banned the Yoong Democrats as an official campus organization, and the case Mark Alexander of patriot Post makes, most of the posts here are little more than unsupported ad hominem attacks upon Christians, irrelevant to the issue at hand either under fundamental logic or the First Amendment.
Incidentally, the Supreme Court’s first citation of Jefferson’s “wall of separation” letter, cited here by Mark Alexander, was not by Black in the school prayer cases but apparently in U. S. v. Reynolds in 1978 upholding the federal law against [Mormon] bigamy (plural marriage) in the Utah Territory. Of course, Alexander is right in that the “wall” was to pootect the church, which had no coercive or defensive powers, from the federal government.
What having strictly voluntary Young Republican and Young Democrat, or other ideological and political, or religious, clubs, on campus, recognized and benefited by the university in a neutral manner, has to do with the college or university, or your department head, taking a partisan political stance, or endorsing one or more planks of either party’s platform or any religious or atheistic dogma, absolutely escapes me. Hey, the Texas and National GOP platforms have disagreed for years on one issue of great concern to me, and candidates regularly ignore them. A lot of mandatory student activity assessments support things with which one might legitimately disagree on religious or other grounds, including the digtorial policy of the school newspaper, an environmental stance you may consider unsupported or even idolatrous, a football team that cheats on eligibility or recruiting, or any number of clubs that might serve beef or pork at a function contrary to Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc., beliefs, Lots of professors teach and grade students on regurgitating alleged facts and positions with which you or I might legitimately disagree. A conservative, I find myself in agreement with the statement of liberal University of California Chancellor Clark Kerr, back in the sixties during my student days, that the purpose of education is not to keep students safe from, but to make them safe for, ideas. I learned a lot from, and formed a lot of my ideological, political, nad religioius beliefs, under the tutelege of professors with whom I came to disagree.



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 1:54 am


Boris said, “We have freedom FROM religion in this country. There is nothing in our Constitution that mentions Christianity. But even if there were science has completely debunked the Bible and all Christian lies and superstitions since our nation was founded. In other words your evil and false religion has been exposed for what it is. Mixing Christianity with politics last happened in Nazi Germany. I think people have learned their lessons about just how dangerous your evil religion really is.”
And we have the freedom to worship whatever we want. LU is a private Christian school. It has the right to exclude a Democratic club if they so wish. Democratic platform goes directly against scripture especially because the platform is pro-abortion.
As far as the Bible being completely false…….could you show 100% proof please?
Wall of separation?
I believe the signers certainly would have agreed that the “wall of separation,” was to prevent one Christian denomination from dominating, and was never intended to be a wedge between the government and Christianity. They wanted freedom to express religion, not from religion. That is why it is the very first amendment in the constitution.
Do you know who John Jay was? He was our first Supreme Court Justice. He said, “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”
Patrick Henry said, “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here”
As far as the Constitution goes did you know that the Constitution makes an explicit reference to Jesus Christ as Lord. “Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth.’
Who is this Lord they are referring to Boris?
We unfortunately are not a Christian nation today. We have become a moralless cess pool of secular humanistic ideals. But to deny what was once our heritage is stupidity. The record speaks for itself, the evidence is there.
There will always be threatened people who hate Christianity so much that they will go to every extreme to rid the world of anything Christian. Wiping our history away is just one tactic.



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 2:01 am


RWG you have got to be kidding……If you are so concerned with the Sermon on the Mount than how can you aligned it with the DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM and our President? We now have in office the most rabidly pro-abortion president in our history. For a man who claims He prays and has a close relationship to God, he has a funny way of showing it. Look at his voting record.
http://obamaandinfanticide.com/
He has always believe a woman has the right to kill even if it’s at 9 months. He also believes in infanticide.
Would Christ be pro-choice? Please. Would Christ undermine parental control of their children? Obama does. He passed legislation to allow minors to obtain abortions without telling their parents.
Our Lord told us that “by their fruits you will know them.”
Republicans are not socialists, Democrats are. They think that you don’t deserve to keep what you make that you owe the world. They don’t believe in freedom of speech, they want the Hate Crimes Legislation that would ban religious speech. They believe in bailing everyone out, even illegals. Give them everything free at the taxpayers expense. They don’t know the difference between right and wrong. They want government take over of its citizens lives. Pelosi knew about water boarding. She is lying.
And what about Rev. Wright, where did he go? His ideals, do they align with Christ’s? Obama calls him uncle. He had no problem belonging to a racist church did he? And democrats are pro-abortion, they don’t care if the unborn is slaughtered in the womb. Whose job is it to stop abortion, Republicans? Why don’t the Democrats stop it? Why didn’t Clinton or Carter your big evangelical president do it?
The Democrats are no more in line with Christ’s teaching than the man in the moon. No the man in the moon is more aligned. The Democratic Party is the party of fascists. The party that will get in bed with our enemy because they want them to love us.
I’ll never forget the image of Obama standing on the platform where he refused to place his hand over his heart during the American National Anthem. But then its no wonder he is a socialist and anti-American revolutionary.
You think Christ would condone any abortion? You think he would condone Obama’s voting record? He is a master manipulator. He has a talent for sucking people into his web of lies. He says he is personally opposed to abortion…….a lie. His are radical pro-abortion views. He continually refuses to support legislation that would define an infant who survives a late term induced labor abortion as a human being with a right to live. Science tells us when life starts, but that knowledge is just way above Obamas pay grade. He insists that no restrictions ever should be placed on the right of a mother to decide to abort her child. Now what would Christ say to that? Would he say, “Hey guys lets come to a compromise….only kill some and only do it if the woman is raped.” ???????? Doesn’t God loves ALL LIFE AND ISN’T IT ALL CREATED BY AND FOR HIM?
On March 30,2001 Obama was the only Senator from Illinois who spoke against a bill that would have protected babies who survive a late term abortion. This transcript you can read online. He explained in detail that if the bill passed, and a 9 month old fetus survived a late term abortion was deemed to be a person who had a right to live, then the law would “forbid abortions to take place.” He then went on to explain the equal protection clause of the 14h Amendment and that it does not allow somebody to kill a child, so if the law deemed a child who survived a late term labor induced abortion had a right to live, “then this would be an anti-abortion statute.”
So did he look to God for guidance? Did he search the scriptures for the answer not caring if his vote would be politically correct or not? Being true to his party he took the easy way out and voted “present“. The vote of “present” is the same as voting no. He knew that a yes vote would be suicide with his party and his fans. A bill must have a majority of yes votes to pass, so this was his ticket out. But if he was against it….his voted would have been on the side of LIFE, and it was not.
He also voted in the Senate against SB 230 a bill designed to stop partial birth abortions. He has voted against minors getting parental notification if they want an abortion.
Obama is in bed with NARAL and Planned Parenthood, the worlds largest abortion provider. Obama said to PP, ”With one more vacancy on the Court we could be looking at a majority hostile to a woman’s fundamental right to choose for the first time since Roe v. Wade from being appointed as Supreme Court. But he won’t define what that choice entails. He won’t say I believe a woman has the right to kill her unborn child. He is hiding from the truth.
His faith is not on God, his faith is in himself. He does NOT stand on the Word.
He has the gall while he was in Jamestown, Pennsylvania to say this…….
“I am going to teach them (daughters age 9 and 6) first about values and morals/ But if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
THIS SAYS IT ALL. It shows where Obamas heart really is. If you can’t see that then God help you. Only a pro-abortion radical would classify a baby as a punishment.
Anyone who is pro-life and against abortion can see Obama for what he really is. He only professes Christianity as a front.



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Boris

posted May 31, 2009 at 2:49 am


Churchmouse,
And we have the freedom to worship whatever we want. LU is a private Christian school. It has the right to exclude a Democratic club if they so wish. Democratic platform goes directly against scripture especially because the platform is pro-abortion.
Boris says: Where does the Bible implicitly prohibit abortion exactly?
As far as the Bible being completely false…….could you show 100% proof please?
Boris says: The Bible refers to angels, demons and Satan, none of which exist.
I believe the signers certainly would have agreed that the “wall of separation,” was to prevent one Christian denomination from dominating, and was never intended to be a wedge between the government and Christianity.
Boris says: Our founders were mostly deists, not Christians.
As far as the Constitution goes did you know that the Constitution makes an explicit reference to Jesus Christ as Lord. “Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth.’
Boris says: Yes but the use of the word “Lord” here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts.
Who is this Lord they are referring to Boris?
We unfortunately are not a Christian nation today. We have become a moralless cess pool of secular humanistic ideals. But to deny what was once our heritage is stupidity. The record speaks for itself, the evidence is there.
Boris says: We have abolished slavery and given women equal rights since the Constitution was written. The United States is a much more moral and ethical nation than it was when it was founded.
There will always be threatened people who hate Christianity so much that they will go to every extreme to rid the world of anything Christian. Wiping our history away is just one tactic.
Boris says: Christian historical revisionists like you are the ones attempting to rewrite history.



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:12 pm


Boris says: Where does the Bible implicitly prohibit abortion exactly?
____________
God says nothing about pedophilia but do you think he would condone that?
God speaks very clearly in the bible on the value of unborn children.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.” (Jeremiah 1:5)
Now was God talking about a child that had been born or one still in the womb Boris? And who does God say here is the creator? I think He said “I formed.” So if He formed, then He is the creator, the owner. Do we have the right to kill that which God created.
“Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His” (Galatians 1:15)
Again talk about a child not yet born. God chose this child.
“For you created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mothers womb…Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.” Psalms 139;13-16
Who is “YOU”? Is you God? God created, God knit together, right? Again God is the creator. Who is “YOUR EYES”? We can’t see an unformed body but God can, can’t He? The aborted names were in God book even before the abortionist killed them.
“Your hands shaped me and made me” Did you not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews.?” “You gave me life.” Job 10:8-12
Who made us? The woman? No she did not. Her body was the oven. God created. WHO GIVES LIFE?
“This is what the Lord says- He who made you, who formed you in the womb” Isaiah 44:2
God says right here…….that He was the creator.
“Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?” Job 31:15
Same thing………
Exodus 21:22-23
If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined….but if there is serious injury you are to take life for life.”
Take life for a life………..the one who took it has a life, the unborn childs life was taken. If God did not feel the unborn was a person and not precious in His sight, why punish anyone?
““I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.” Deut 30:19”
Life is a gift from God. God GIVES LIFE. God gives life to the unborn child.
He says choose LIFE, CHOOSE LIFE.
And what does everyone choose if they are pro-abortion/pro-choice. Do they choose life for the unborn child? Do they honor God and his creation , His gift?
This issue isn’t about the woman in Gods eyes. It’s about the life, the new creation that He formed that He knitted together.
No one has the right to kill innocent life in the womb, not even the woman.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
“ Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
So I ask you……isn’t your body a temple of the Holy Spirit? Does every unborn child in the womb have a body? You can not view the unborn childs body as something different than the bodies we have? They have their own heads, arms, hearts, circulatory systems, veins, fingerprints, eyelids.
Their bodies might be little, but they are bodies and they have been created by God. If you’re a Christian then how dare you say they can be dismembered alive.
Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, 5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.
Luke 1:15
“For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.
Think a child might be filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb Boris?
So if the Holy Spirit can be present in the womb what happens when an abortionist kills it? Are they hurting the mother or the child?



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:18 pm


Boris says: Where does the Bible implicitly prohibit abortion exactly?
God says nothing about pedophilia but do you think he would condone that?
God speaks very clearly in the bible on the value of unborn children.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.” (Jeremiah 1:5)
Now was God talking about a child that had been born or one still in the womb Boris? And who does God say here is the creator? I think He said “I formed.” So if He formed, then He is the creator, the owner. Do we have the right to kill that which God created.
“Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His” (Galatians 1:15)
Again talk about a child not yet born. God chose this child.
“For you created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mothers womb…Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.” Psalms 139;13-16
Who is “YOU”? Is you God? God created, God knit together, right? Again God is the creator. Who is “YOUR EYES”? We can’t see an unformed body but God can, can’t He? The aborted names were in God book even before the abortionist killed them.
“Your hands shaped me and made me” Did you not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews.?” “You gave me life.” Job 10:8-12
Who made us? The woman? No she did not. Her body was the oven. God created. WHO GIVES LIFE?
“This is what the Lord says- He who made you, who formed you in the womb” Isaiah 44:2
God says right here…….that He was the creator.
“Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?” Job 31:15
Same thing………
Exodus 21:22-23
If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined….but if there is serious injury you are to take life for life.”
Take life for a life………..the one who took it has a life, the unborn childs life was taken. If God did not feel the unborn was a person and not precious in His sight, why punish anyone?
““I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.” Deut 30:19”
Life is a gift from God. God GIVES LIFE. God gives life to the unborn child.
He says choose LIFE, CHOOSE LIFE.
And what does everyone choose if they are pro-abortion/pro-choice. Do they choose life for the unborn child? Do they honor God and his creation , His gift?
This issue isn’t about the woman in Gods eyes. It’s about the life, the new creation that He formed that He knitted together.
No one has the right to kill innocent life in the womb, not even the woman.



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:23 pm


1 Corinthians 6:19-20
“ Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
So I ask you……isn’t your body a temple of the Holy Spirit? Does every unborn child in the womb have a body? You can not view the unborn childs body as something different than the bodies we have? They have their own heads, arms, hearts, circulatory systems, veins, fingerprints, eyelids.
Their bodies might be little, but they are bodies and they have been created by God. If you’re a Christian then how dare you say they can be dismembered alive.
Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, 5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.
Luke 1:15
“For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.
Think a child might be filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb Boris?
So if the Holy Spirit can be present in the womb what happens when an abortionist kills it? Are they hurting the mother or the child?
The apostle Paul was called and set apart for the works of God while still in his mother’s womb:
Galatians 1:15-16
15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased, to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,”
It’s plain to see that we are God’s property not our own. God has plans ordained for us long before we come into this world.
Do we have the right to interfere?
Any person who claims to be a Christian IMO should see that abortion is KILLING. It is taking the life of something that does not belong to them. It’s simply playing God. Abortion is a moral issue maybe not for the person with no faith, but for people who love the Lord it is, and if it isn’t it should be. I do not believe murder is a private issue.
Obama condones abortion and he obviously does not know or care what God says in the very Word he says he believes and puts his faith in. The Democratic Party condones abortion.
“Be careful about not living righteously merely to be seen by people. Otherwise you have no reward with your Father in heaven (Matthew 6:1).”
Is abortion a righteous act? God would want His flock to speak out against injustices and yet the majority of pastors, clergy, (except Catholics) do nothing. They stand quietly behind their pulpits and say nothing about abortion. They do nothing as not to offend the tithers sitting in the pews they want to fill.



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Boris

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:25 pm


Churcmouse,
God says nothing about pedophilia but do you think he would condone that?
Boris says: Sure. God commanded pedophilia when he and Moses demanded the rapes of young virgins and the murder of their mothers and brothers.
God speaks very clearly in the bible on the value of unborn children.
Boris says: No kidding:
I see so many Christians talking about abortion being a crime against God. It’s not a wonder that they are hard pressed to find a conclusive biblical statement to corroborate their position. In their determination to control women they have been forced to rely on exceedingly weak sections such as “thou shall not kill”,”I kneweth thou in the womb” and their favorite: “When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth…“–Exodus 21:22-24 The problem here is that the man who injures a pregnant woman in the process, shall repay her according to the degree of injury inflicted on her, not the fetus. I am often dumbfounded at how Christians can assume that abortion is wrong judging by these feeble verses when the Bible clearly advocates infanticide and many other atrocities against children and pregnant women. I can no longer allow such ignorance of the Bible and deem it necessary to expose the true agenda. I am tired of the many young Christians who are brainwashed by their clergy. They are only taught the “love and mercy” parts of the Bible and never bother to read what is not so openly preached . The Church thrives off of speaking in half truths and concealing their blood soaked robes. Of course my job as preacher of an Atheist parish is to give a sermon about those things that the Bible TRUTHFULLY commands. Here they are, god’s views on the unborn, the actions of righteous men” and god’s commands of infanticide and child abuse: (note-There are Torah verses in this list but I will not attack the Jewish faith for being pro-life since they are not rampant advocates of the matter.)
Abortion:
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?
Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.
Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?
Infanticide:
1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless “suckling” infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.
Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.
Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.
The murdering of children:
Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.
Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.
Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?
Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.
2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.
Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”
1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.
I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.
Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.
Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.
Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.
Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children.
Child abuse:
Genesis 22:9 & 10 “And they came to the place which God had told him of and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.” It matters not that god let Abraham get out of murdering Isaac. To put a knife up to your son’s throat is child abuse.
I Kings 3:24-25 “And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other.” This test was of course given to see who the real mother of the child was. Christians view this king as a wise man. I look upon his suggestion with far more revulsion then I give accredit to Susan Smith.
Proverbs 13:24, 19:18, 22:15, 23:13-14 & 29:15 God commands repeatedly that you beat your children.
Matthew 19:29 If you really loved Jesus then he insists that you abandon your wife and children for him. Only that way will he allow you to go to heaven. (That is if you meet his other hefty requirements, don’t slip through the loopholes, and ignore the contradictions.)
Mark 7:9 Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law.
In conclusion I shall end this list with a verse that should keep the pro lifers in check. It is Romans 13: 1-7 “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which god has established. The authorities that exist have been established by god. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what god has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he shall commend you. For he is god’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is god’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. There fore it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are god’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes, if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”
Clearly it is the job of Christians to obey the laws, and the laws of this country clearly state that abortion is legal. So too should Christians respect and honor that law. God commands them to NOT disobey, which entails attempting to get the law overturned. If god wanted abortion to be illegal he wouldn’t have appointed authorities to make it legal. Evilbible.com



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:32 pm


Boris says: The Bible refers to angels, demons and Satan, none of which exist.”
Can you prove this with 100% certainty? I would like to see your proof and how you came to this conclusion. You made a fact statement, so provide the evidence.
Boris says: Our founders were mostly deists, not Christians.
Not so and history shows that most were not.
From the first Charter of Virginia that talked of “propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in darkness” to the U.S Constitution that was approved by the founders…..”IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD”… as the Supreme Court concluded in 1892 (just little over 100 years after the Constitution was written) “this is a Christian nation”….and as Benjamin Franklin himself said to those at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, “I have lived…a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice,(Matthew 10:29) is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that “except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. (Psalm 127:1) I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.”
Does he sound like a deist?
Did you know that Jefferson included a prayer in both of his inaugural addresses?
He signed bills appropriating money for chaplains in Congress and the armed services and signed the Articles of War, which not only provided for these chaplains but recommended that all officers and soldiers attend divine services. (Act of April 10, 1806, C.20, 2 Stat. 359, 360. Quoted in Rice, The Supreme Court and Public Prayer, 63-64)
Did you know that Jefferson along with Ben Franklin proposed that the design for the nations seal should include the biblical image of Pharoahs army being destroyed as it passed through the Red Sea?
Jefferson was against ecclesiastical control of education but not against the teaching of religion in state supported institutions. He even supported the College of William and Mary.
Did you know that Congress in 1777 issued an official resolution instructing the Committee on Commerce to import 20,000 copies of the bible.
So in the year 1776 representatives from the thirteen colonies assembled. While not all representatives were Christian the majority of them were. Why? Because back then in order to hold office you had to be a Christian.
I mean if you were an atheist, if you were anything but a Christian, why would you sign your name and be associated to a document that mentioned a God you did not believe in? Did the non-Christians stand up and say their rights were being violated? they would today wouldn’t they? When Washington affirmed in the Constitution that Jesus Christ was Lord of the assembled delegates, the fact that the entire nation, no dissent came over the wording of the statement was a fact at that time of the signing of the Constitution.
I believe it was James Madison (who studied theology at Princeton by the way) who drafted the 10 amendments to the Constitution. (Ironic…10 commandments-ten amendments?) Clearly the First Amendment was a restriction on Congress, not the states or any individual or group of individuals. All the colonists at that time knew firsthand and were familiar with the persecution resulting from overly secular governments using coercion to force a state religion on citizens.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”…
Madison clearly meant…a state church where ministers who drew salaries from the government, where bishops served in the legislature and people taxed and burdened to support the established churches buildings and activities.
The First Amendment prohibits the national congress from establishing a national religion, sponsored and funded by the national government or from “prohibiting the free exercise thereof” There is no doubt over the prohibition. This doesn’t undermine however that Christianity was by design part of everything of the Federal government. And it should be noted that it was that new government, established on Christianity and not on humanistic ideals that created our unprecedented freedom of all religious faiths.



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:37 pm


If you study original state Constitutions you would see that they adopted their own Constitutions and every one included reference to God or Almighty God or Divine Guidance. If the founding fathers wanted religion kept out……..if the authors of each and every state Constitution wanted it to be secular……..why these references?
Boris says: “Yes but the use of the word “Lord” here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts.”
Hogwash….everyone knew then and knows today what Lord meant and it did not mean a man of high rank in a feudal society, it meant Jesus Christ. Look at the quotes of the signers and you can easily see whom they referred to as Lord.
Boris says: “We have abolished slavery and given women equal rights since the Constitution was written. The United States is a much more moral and ethical nation than it was when it was founded.”
Abolishing slavery was good and giving women the right to vote was good, but look at our moral climate then as compared to ours today. We are a nation that kills children in the womb. We are a nation in decline and we eventually will fall. The economy is not the problem, men’s hearts are. We as a nation have spiritually deteriorated. We can’t learn from history because people like you deny our history. You deny what we have become.
As families go, so goes a nation. And the family unit is deteriorating. Material values and narcissistic lifestyles take over. Kids don’t need a mommy anymore. A mommy can be replaced with anyone. A mother has lost her status ad value in the family.
Children in America are born unwanted, they are aborted, abandoned, molested, and when they are older they are undisciplined. We have high rates of drugs, alcohol, pregnancy in schools. Our schools teach, if it feels good do it, there is no one right or wrong, its all in the eyes of the beholder. Our government now says they know what is best for our children. Parental authority has diminished. Obama thinks its perfectly acceptable for a minor to obtain an abortion and cross state lines to do it. You need parental permission for a tattoo, but if you want to kill a living human being, its ok. But where is the government when this minor has problems?
Unites States has adopted today a pagan mentality. People serve idols they have turned away from God. God has been replaced by sex because if it feels good, it has to be good. And today we live in a sex filled society that makes Sodom and Gomorrah look like Disneyland.
It happened in Greece and Rome it happened in Babylon……and it will happen to us. Self destruction will happen, it already has started. It’s sad that other nations lately have warned us that we are headed there……but we can’t see it. The road is clear…..and our driver (Obama) has his hands all over the wheel. Crash and burn…..just wait.
Boris says: “Christian historical revisionists like you are the ones attempting to rewrite history.”
No, I read the history that is already been written, and it appears in state and national documents, statues and memorials. If you visit Washington D.C Christianity is evident all over the city. You are the Christian haters that deny our great heritage, the heritage that made us at one time the greatest nation on earth.



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:54 pm


“It’s not a wonder that they are hard pressed to find a conclusive biblical statement to corroborate their position.”
I just gave you scripture where God talks about children in the womb. If he considers them his creation and he created them why would he want them murdered? The Ten Commandments He gave Moses includes thou shalt not murder.
“In conclusion I shall end this list with a verse that should keep the pro lifers in check. It is Romans 13: 1-7 “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which god has established. The authorities that exist have been established by god. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what god has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority?”
In conclusion…..does that mean you give up?
You keep no one in check, you just show the hardness of your own heart especially because you condone that children are dismembered alive in the womb even up until 9 months. A person does not need to even believe in God to see that this is inhumane. Your views are inhumane not mine.
As long as the state allows us to live by our religious convictions we can. If the state is corrupt and asks Christians to take the mark of the beast…….we must stand up against it. Anything the state asks us to do that forces us to deny Christ is wrong. I believe that Christians should work to make the state better so I believe I can do both. But the time will come, especially after this Hate Crimes Legislation goes through when Christians will be silenced on the Word. Then like in ancient times…..Christians will have to make a decision. You stand up for God and be martyred for Him or you serve the state as master. You imply that God wants us to do what the state makes law. If the state says its ok then its ok. Abortion is permitted but for Christians it is a immoral act. The state at one time said slavery was ok. You said it was good that slavery ended. So had you lived there would you have owned slaves? Thank God that people stood up against the state and abolished it. Just because something is legal does not make it moral.



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churchmouse

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:59 pm


“Clearly it is the job of Christians to obey the laws, and the laws of this country clearly state that abortion is legal. So too should Christians respect and honor that law. God commands them to NOT disobey, which entails attempting to get the law overturned. If god wanted abortion to be illegal he wouldn’t have appointed authorities to make it legal. Evilbible.com”
I do obey the laws of this country. But every Sunday (and I have to go now because I am late) to picket Planned Parenthood clinics. I have that right. A right that some want taken from me. Probably you do not think I have this right because I am a threat to your way of life. I should be silenced, right? I do not respect Obamas actions I think he is an imoral person. I love him like Christ commands but I pray every night that God take him to a very uncomfortable place where his heart changes. I do not pray for his policies or respect his views in any way. They are ungodly and he uses his faith for votes.
I will continue to attempt to get abortion laws overturned…….just like those did when slavery was legal.
Or did you think owning slaves was a moral thing…….it was legal wasn’t it? Or did you erase also that history lesson of the past.



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Boris

posted May 31, 2009 at 1:01 pm


Chrurchmouse,
You posted a forged quotation. You need to check your source materials. You are getting your information from fundamentalist Christians.
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation
was founded, not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions, but on the
gospel of Jesus Christ.” – Patrick Henry
One of the most common false quotations passed around by the Christian
Nation crowd. Henry never said this. Even David Barton has
admitted that the quote has never been found in any of Henry’s
original writings. Henry was certainly a Christian, of course. In fact, he was avirtual theocrat.
Churchmouse you have no credibility on this blog now so I would suggest posting your lies elsewhere.



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Boris

posted May 31, 2009 at 3:27 pm


Churchmouse,
Can you prove this with 100% certainty? I would like to see your proof and how you came to this conclusion. You made a fact statement, so provide the evidence.
Boris says: Nothing can be proved with absolute certainty. But the hypothesis that angels, demons and Satan exist fails completely due to the evidence required for that hypothesis.
Not so and history shows that most were not.
Boris says: Other than John Jay I challenge you to name who these Christians were. Be careful because everyone can see I’ve already soundly refuted everything you’ve posted so far. Painful isn’t it?
From the first Charter of Virginia that talked of “propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in darkness” to the U.S Constitution that was approved by the founders…..”IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD”…
Boris says: I’m always amused when Christian Nation apologists quote founding documents from the colonies rather than the United States. Most of the colonies were founded as theocracies, not free societies. And our revolution and constitution was, quite obviously, a rejection of both theocracy and colonization.
as the Supreme Court concluded in 1892 (just little over 100 years after the Constitution was written) “this is a Christian nation”….
Boris says: Justice Brewer wrote in the opinion that “beyond all these matters no purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people.” Several pages later, after presenting a religious history of America, he follows up with the statement: “These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.” Barton dishonestly splices together these two quotes and cites Holy Trinity as establishing America as a Christian Nation.
and as Benjamin Franklin himself said to those at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, “I have lived…a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice,(Matthew 10:29) is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that “except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. (Psalm 127:1) I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.”
Does he sound like a deist?
Boris says: Sure does. Let’s read something Franklin REALLY said and can be verified unlike your forged quote. “My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the dissenting [puritan]way. But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns of several points, as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle’s lectures. [Robert Boyle (1627-1691) was a British physicist who endowed the Boyle Lectures for defense of Christianity.]It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist” [Benjamin Franklin, "Autobiography,"p.66 as published in *The American Tradition in Literature,* seventh edition (short), McGraw-Hill,p.180]
“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.” [Benjamin Franklin, in _Toward The Mystery_]
“The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” [Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard, 1758]
Did you know that Jefferson included a prayer in both of his inaugural addresses?
He signed bills appropriating money for chaplains in Congress and the armed services and signed the Articles of War, which not only provided for these chaplains but recommended that all officers and soldiers attend divine services. (Act of April 10, 1806, C.20, 2 Stat. 359, 360. Quoted in Rice, The Supreme Court and Public Prayer, 63-64) Did you know that Jefferson along with Ben Franklin proposed that the design for the nations seal should include the biblical image of Pharoahs army being destroyed as it passed through the Red Sea?
Jefferson was against ecclesiastical control of education but not against the teaching of religion in state supported institutions. He even supported the College of William and Mary.
Did you know that Congress in 1777 issued an official resolution instructing the Committee on Commerce to import 20,000 copies of the bible.
Boris says: Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? …Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814
“The Christian god is a three-headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious… One only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites. – Thomas Jefferson.
So in the year 1776 representatives from the thirteen colonies assembled. While not all representatives were Christian the majority of them were. Why? Because back then in order to hold office you had to be a Christian.
Boris says: Thanks for citing a prime example of the Christian religion and Christians denying other people their rights.
I mean if you were an atheist, if you were anything but a Christian, why would you sign your name and be associated to a document that mentioned a God you did not believe in? Did the non-Christians stand up and say their rights were being violated? they would today wouldn’t they? When Washington affirmed in the Constitution that Jesus Christ was Lord of the assembled delegates, the fact that the entire nation, no dissent came over the wording of the statement was a fact at that time of the signing of the Constitution.
Boris says: That is just a lie. George Washington never once publicly mentioned Jesus Christ and never once took communion at the Episcopal church he attended.
I believe it was James Madison (who studied theology at Princeton by the way) who drafted the 10 amendments to the Constitution. (Ironic…10 commandments-ten amendments?) Clearly the First Amendment was a restriction on Congress, not the states or any individual or group of individuals. All the colonists at that time knew firsthand and were familiar with the persecution resulting from overly secular governments using coercion to force a state religion on citizens.
Boris says: “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble purpose.” – James Madison
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”…
Madison clearly meant…a state church where ministers who drew salaries from the government, where bishops served in the legislature and people taxed and burdened to support the established churches buildings and activities.
The First Amendment prohibits the national congress from establishing a national religion, sponsored and funded by the national government or from “prohibiting the free exercise thereof” There is no doubt over the prohibition. This doesn’t undermine however that Christianity was by design part of everything of the Federal government. And it should be noted that it was that new government, established on Christianity and not on humanistic ideals that created our unprecedented freedom of all religious faiths.
Boris says: Christianity is not mentioned in any of our founding documents, which proves your claim to be false.
If you study original state Constitutions you would see that they adopted their own Constitutions and every one included reference to God or Almighty God or Divine Guidance. If the founding fathers wanted religion kept out……..if the authors of each and every state Constitution wanted it to be secular……..why these references?
Boris says: That style of argument has its opposite, but that is never mentioned. By opposite, I mean describing how the various unions between religion and government that had existed in those original charters were weakened or eliminated by the time the first state constitutions were framed. Nor is there any mention that there was further breaking or weakening of surviving unions as various states revised their constitutions during the next fifty years or so. Neither is there mention of the ultimate ending of religion government unions that the federal Constitution, either un-amended and with its Bill of Rights created. There is also have no mention of any court cases that supported the Christian nation concept or that our laws were based on any common law-Christianity connections. There are no quotes by state or federal government members that would agree with the Christian Nation idea.
Hogwash….everyone knew then and knows today what Lord meant and it did not mean a man of high rank in a feudal society, it meant Jesus Christ. Look at the quotes of the signers and you can easily see whom they referred to as Lord.
Boris says: 50 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons. Being a Freemason meant excommunication from both Protestant and Catholic churches.
Abolishing slavery was good and giving women the right to vote was good, but look at our moral climate then as compared to ours today. We are a nation that kills children in the womb. We are a nation in decline and we eventually will fall. The economy is not the problem, men’s hearts are. We as a nation have spiritually deteriorated. We can’t learn from history because people like you deny our history. You deny what we have become.
As families go, so goes a nation. And the family unit is deteriorating. Material values and narcissistic lifestyles take over. Kids don’t need a mommy anymore. A mommy can be replaced with anyone. A mother has lost her status ad value in the family.
Boris says: Abortion has been performed for thousands of years, and in every society that has been studied. It was legal in the United States from the time the earliest settlers arrived. At the time the Constitution was adopted, abortions before “quickening” were openly advertised and commonly performed. A fetus does not have a right to be in the womb of any woman, but is only in there by her permission. This permission may be revoked by the woman at any time. Rights are not permissions; permissions are not rights. This permission is given by the woman, because it is her body — and not the fetus’s body, and certainly not the government’s body. To give a fetus “rights” superior to a pregnant woman is to eradicate the woman’s right to her body. The principle here is: any right that contradicts the right of another cannot be a right, as rights form an integrated whole. Contrary to the opinion of anti-lifers (falsely called “pro-lifers” as they are against the life of the actual human being involved) a woman is not a breeding pig.
Children in America are born unwanted, they are aborted, abandoned, molested, and when they are older they are undisciplined. We have high rates of drugs, alcohol, pregnancy in schools.
Boris says: Of course making abortions illegal would mean that many more unwanted children would be born and then abandoned, molested, and when they are older they would be undisciplined. Our prison system is already full of unwanted children.
Our schools teach, if it feels good do it, there is no one right or wrong, its all in the eyes of the beholder. Our government now says they know what is best for our children. Parental authority has diminished. Obama thinks its perfectly acceptable for a minor to obtain an abortion and cross state lines to do it. You need parental permission for a tattoo, but if you want to kill a living human being, its ok. But where is the government when this minor has problems?
Boris says: No school or teacher teaches if it feels good do it, there is no one right or wrong, its all in the eyes of the beholder. That kind of nonsense would only contribute to disciplinary problems. Since we don’t live in an immoral society you have to pretend we do and make up straw man arguments so you can pretend to be arguing against something.
Unites States has adopted today a pagan mentality. People serve idols they have turned away from God. God has been replaced by sex because if it feels good, it has to be good. And today we live in a sex filled society that makes Sodom and Gomorrah look like Disneyland.
Boris says: You fundamentalists worship a paper idol and have the nerve to say others serve idols. Claiming a collection of literature is sacred is having other Gods before God. Could you be any more of a hypocrite?
It happened in Greece and Rome it happened in Babylon……and it will happen to us. Self destruction will happen, it already has started. It’s sad that other nations lately have warned us that we are headed there……but we can’t see it. The road is clear…..and our driver (Obama) has his hands all over the wheel. Crash and burn…..just wait.
Boris says: You are nothing but a typical Christian fear-monger. No Protestant denomination accepted the findings of Galileo and Copernicus until 1835. Instead they preached that believing in a round and moving earth would lead to moral decay and the destruction of the human race. Didn’t happen and so once you Protestants had to admit the Bible was wrong and the earth isn’t flat and immovable like the Bible repeatedly states in both testaments you attacked evolution by natural selection with the exact same warnings about accepting that. ROFL!
No, I read the history that is already been written, and it appears in state and national documents, statues and memorials. If you visit Washington D.C Christianity is evident all over the city. You are the Christian haters that deny our great heritage, the heritage that made us at one time the greatest nation on earth.
Boris says: I was raised in Washington D.C. and took school field trips to all the important buildings and monuments. Your claim is false just like the rest of them. There are more references to Freemasonry and its symbols in Washington D.C. than there are any Christian symbols or pictures. Obviously you’ve never been there.
I just gave you scripture where God talks about children in the womb. If he considers them his creation and he created them why would he want them murdered? The Ten Commandments He gave Moses includes thou shalt not murder.
Boris says: Right and I gave you “scripture” that proved that the Bible God is himself an abortionist and a genocidal and infanticidal maniac and control freak. You have conveniently ignored this as it demolishes your position.
In conclusion…..does that mean you give up?
Boris says: No, but I suggest you do before I expose so many fallacies in your belief system, punch so may gaping holes in it, that you will no longer be able to hang on to it. In fact the desperation and intellectual dishonesty of your posts reveals just how deeply you’ve been stunned and stymied by my posts.
You keep no one in check, you just show the hardness of your own heart especially because you condone that children are dismembered alive in the womb even up until 9 months. A person does not need to even believe in God to see that this is inhumane. Your views are inhumane not mine.
Boris says: Again what you have said is absolutely false. Abortions in the third trimester are illegal unless the mother’s life is in danger as they should be. You don’t even know what the abortion laws state yet you want to overturn them. Why don’t you read them first?
As long as the state allows us to live by our religious convictions we can. If the state is corrupt and asks Christians to take the mark of the beast…….we must stand up against it. Anything the state asks us to do that forces us to deny Christ is wrong. I believe that Christians should work to make the state better so I believe I can do both. But the time will come, especially after this Hate Crimes Legislation goes through when Christians will be silenced on the Word. Then like in ancient times…..Christians will have to make a decision. You stand up for God and be martyred for Him or you serve the state as master. You imply that God wants us to do what the state makes law. If the state says its ok then its ok. Abortion is permitted but for Christians it is a immoral act. The state at one time said slavery was ok. You said it was good that slavery ended. So had you lived there would you have owned slaves? Thank God that people stood up against the state and abolished it. Just because something is legal does not make it moral.
Boris says: Nonsense. Bible believers used the Bible to support the institution of slavery.
I do obey the laws of this country. But every Sunday (and I have to go now because I am late) to picket Planned Parenthood clinics. I have that right. A right that some want taken from me. Probably you do not think I have this right because I am a threat to your way of life. I should be silenced, right?
Boris says: You’re against planned parenthood because you believe in forced parenthood. We should talk about what abortion really is about which is forced parenthood. Forcing parenthood on people who are not ready for, or do not want it. That is irresponsible because forced parenthood can harm both children and their parents. Every child deserves to be wanted by their parents and forced parenthood denies them that. Christians are mostly pro-birth but once a baby is born, they abandon life, which explains their position on unnecessary wars, the death penalty (DNA checks), as well as their treatment of the poor. These are the people who got us into Iraq under false pretensions. It’s led to thousands of unnecessary deaths, father-less children, divorces, post-traumatic stress disorder, as well as the creation of two terrorist nations: Iraq and Pakistan.
I do not respect Obamas actions I think he is an imoral person. I love him like Christ commands but I pray every night that God take him to a very uncomfortable place where his heart changes. I do not pray for his policies or respect his views in any way. They are ungodly and he uses his faith for votes.
Boris says: You have to be threatened and commanded to love others or else you can see no reason to do so. Your unanswered prayers prove prayers don’t get answered by the way.
I will continue to attempt to get abortion laws overturned…….just like those did when slavery was legal.
Boris says: Sadly, some people, especially religious ideologues, don’t understand that making abortion illegal doesn’t make abortion less common. In countries where abortion is illegal, 186 women die every day due to complications from unsafe, i.e. illegal, abortions. Many in the United States will gratefully honor the anniversary of Roe vs. Wade today. It is the 36th anniversary of the landmark Supreme Court decision that protects a woman’s right to privacy to make her own decision when faced with an unplanned, unwanted or medically complicated pregnancy, thereby making abortion safe and legal in this country. A recent global study conducted by Johns Hopkins Hospital showed that the abortion rate is exactly the same in developed countries where abortion is legal and in undeveloped countries where it is banned. In the United States, the death rate from abortion is 0.6 per 100,000 procedures, making it as safe as an injection of penicillin. The death rate is literally hundreds of times higher where abortion is illegal. What makes your ideology more important than public safety?
Or did you think owning slaves was a moral thing…….it was legal wasn’t it? Or did you erase also that history lesson of the past.
Boris says: The Bible not only condones and promotes slavery it actually regulates its practice. So are you saying the Bible is wrong and that it should have never condoned and regulated slavery?



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Bernie

posted May 31, 2009 at 4:01 pm


It appears Boris the cat has cornered a mouse. Bad kitty! Stop toying with it.



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Your Name

posted May 31, 2009 at 8:13 pm


“The Tax Code suggests they do not“–and Barry has the correct position because when a Evangelical Christian church of the Lord Jesus Christ take on the 501(c)(3) contract, they violate God’s Holy covenant, the Holy Bible which gives all born-again Christians (who are a sovereign people just like the America Indians) free speech and immunity from paying all taxes via Ezra 7:24-27 without a man-made contract like the 501(c)(3). When we take on the 501(c)(3) contract we waived our ecclesiastical rights which are inalienable rights granted to us by God and are superior to man’s law—for a man-made privilege, moving us out of the common-law jurisdiction and into the evil statutory jurisdiction which is idolatry for us who name the name of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. But sadly most evangelicals are blind to this fact, which is very strange because the Bible makes it crystal clear in 1 Corinthians 2:15: “The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment” The spiritual man are born-again Christians, the “judgments about all things” includes contracts and taxes, “he himself “ is referring to each individual Christian and “not subject to any man’s judgment” means that Christians don’t have to take on any man-made contract (especially the 501(c)(3) which is voluntary) or submit to a pagan’s judgment that says we evangelical are to pay taxes. And it is true, if you are religious you can be a Democrat or Republican but if you are born-again Christian you can’t be a Democrat or Republican because the message of the Democrats or Republicans are antichrist at it’s core.



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El

posted May 31, 2009 at 8:15 pm


“The Tax Code suggests they do not“–and Barry has the correct position because when a Evangelical Christian church of the Lord Jesus Christ take on the 501(c)(3) contract, they violate God’s Holy covenant, the Holy Bible which gives all born-again Christians….” Was posted by El



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El

posted May 31, 2009 at 8:30 pm


During a speech today on “cybersecurity,” “Obama told a whopper. He said the government’s effort to protect us from cyber bad guys “will not include monitoring private sector networks or Internet traffic. We will preserve and protect the personal privacy and civil liberties that we cherish as Americans.” Is it possible Obama has never heard of Mark Klein, the retired AT&T communications technician who said years ago that the company shunted all Internet traffic — including traffic from peering links connecting to other Internet backbone providers — to semantic traffic analyzers, installed in a secret room inside the AT&T central office on Folsom Street in San Francisco? There are similar rooms in Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego, all sucking up internet data. Please read the rest of this article at: http://www.infowars.com/cybersecurity-obamas-promise-to-trash-the-constitution/
Kurt Nimmo/Infowars/May 29, 2009



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El

posted May 31, 2009 at 9:00 pm


Boris was able to beat up Church-mouse because Church-mouse forgot that we are not supposed to put in trust in men, even the Founding Fathers! This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man…” Jeremiah 17:5



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Boris

posted May 31, 2009 at 11:20 pm


El,
Why then do you trust the men who wrote the Bible? Because of rumors other men have spread about them perhaps?



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Tim McGrath

posted June 5, 2009 at 12:32 pm


El, that sounds like dangerously un-American speech, which is of course your right, none the less frightening. Are you suggesting that there is a sovereign, theocratic “nation” of evangelical Christians living within our borders that is not subject to American law, simply because an ancient book says so? Perhaps if you could produce some evidence to substantiate anything written in that book (other than the inherent evidence that it contents are morally reprehensible) the rest of us will take you seriously.



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N. Lindzee Lindholm

posted December 6, 2009 at 1:28 pm


Both political groups should be affirmed on campus. Let good politics win people over to the other side.



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Lee

posted April 9, 2011 at 7:16 pm


Nice work! Beliefnet.com took down this article. But it was cached.
Typical for them and probably just one of many abuses of our tax-exempt laws. I know that both parties benefit from our current standards. I am a Christian but have come–however reluctantly–to think the only answer is to repeal/rescind the tax provisions which allow any religion to become tax-exempt.

Almost forgot to add this! When beliefnet.com took down the website (unproven belief of mine) it apparently acquire my sign-in from its own online site. This, too, is legal because their privacy policy give us adequate notice.



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Previous Posts

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Thank you for visiting LynnvSekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow: Faith and Justice  Happy Reading!

posted 11:26:38am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Another blog to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Lynn V. Sekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow's Faith and Justice Happy Reading!!!

posted 10:36:04am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

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