Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


Graduation Battle: What Does Theology Have To Do With It?

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

Jay, let me assure you and all our commentators that I would be similarly upset about a public school graduation in a mosque or in a predominantly GLBT Metropolitan Community Church. The doctrine of this particular church is, of course, relevant because it is recognized in the community as holding views that any reasonable person could predict would make some folks extremely uncomfortable. Secular venues are available and ought to be used.


Let’s turn to a few of your specific arguments and analogies.  Although
you may be right about “no preaching” occurring that day, we do know
from past events that church members (apparently not satisfied with
merely getting a rental fee from the government) sometimes  passed out
religious literature after graduation.  More significantly, this venue
is designed as a sacred space, a place created for worship.  How many
stained glass windows or giant crosses do you find in the average
grange hall or public swimming pool?  It doesn’t lose that character by
the nature of the event happening there.

I’m not troubled by a
mixed public school/private school basketball tournament that might
occasionally end up in the Catholic school gym.  However, as you know,
sometimes school districts do schedule events specifically to avoid
times, like Sunday mornings, where athletics might “compete” with
churchgoing, but then utterly reject accommodation claims of Seventh
Day Adventists whose worship is on Saturday.

And, please Jay, don’t go toward the darker side of your analogy with voting in churches
Americans United and other groups have been getting increasing numbers
of complaints in the past few election cycles about voters having to
confront even more than religious symbols on their way to the polling
stations located in religious institutions.  They may find
anti-abortion posters or even notices telling congregants how to vote
on ballot initiatives.



Advertisement
Comments read comments(10)
post a comment
Jimbino

posted April 26, 2009 at 5:48 pm


Won’t it be great to see that day in America when we won’t have to deal with religious icons and celebrations! Including baptisms, circumcisions, confirmations, marriages, funerals, sanctifying of cars, crosses, crucifixes, and so on, ad nauseam?
I am sick of religion and other superstitions!



report abuse
 

nicholas

posted April 26, 2009 at 11:01 pm


Always best to defer to great minds of history:
Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith…. We need believing people.
– Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933
(Jimbino you’re a dreamer)



report abuse
 

Rob

posted April 27, 2009 at 10:36 pm


I guess we should not allow churches to be used as a relief shelter for a natural emergency either.



report abuse
 

The Rev

posted April 28, 2009 at 9:02 am


Mr. Lynn,
I’d like to know just how you, or anyone else, can say you’re an ordained Reverend, when nearly all of your opinions are in direct contradiction with the teachings of Christ.
The government is to stay out of religion, but religion — specifically Christianity, here in the U.S. — is supposed to influence government! THAT is the true intent of the so-called “seperation clause” of the First Amendment, and is absolutely proveable through innumerable quotes from the Founders and other significant figures.
As for handing out religious material, as you said “after” graduation. What are you afraid of? What are any of you Christophobes afraid of?
Let me ask you, Mr. Lynn. Would you like to see government regulation of religion?
Sincerely,
The Rev



report abuse
 

Katie

posted April 28, 2009 at 10:22 am


“I’d like to know just how you, or anyone else, can say you’re an ordained Reverend, when nearly all of your opinions are in direct contradiction with the teachings of Christ.”
Rev, can you refer me to the Bible verse where Jesus said that public school graduations should take place in evangelical churches? I am not a Christian scholar myself, so I must have missed that one. Discussing an issue with facts and evidence is one thing, attacking a person’s personal faith and status is quite another, and adds absolutely nothing of value to the discussion!
The objection to the distribution of religious materials has nothing to do with fear. Rather, it has to do with the right, as a public school student (or parent), to attend a function of your public school, which is open to and funded by everyone, without religious coercion or proselytizing. If the service were held at a Mosque and materials about Islam were distributed, would you object? How about if it were held at an athiest meeting place, and after the ceremony they distributed materials about evolution, the big bang, and scientific evidence debunking the Bible and other religious teachings. Would you object then?



report abuse
 

Gregarious

posted April 28, 2009 at 3:28 pm


Brava Katie. Of course there would be objection, but they don’t like to think about things they do not think about.



report abuse
 

daniel rotter

posted April 29, 2009 at 12:33 am


Reverend, say that a public school graduation took place at some sort of secular humanist meeting place. Would you be cool if after the graduation, copies of The Humanist Manifesto were passed out to the graduating students after the ceremony was over?



report abuse
 

daniel rotter

posted April 29, 2009 at 12:35 am


On a more observational level, I admire the restraint at the people objecting to the graduation being held at the church. What I mean by that is that if there were plans to hold a public school graduation at a mosque, officials at that school would almost certainly receive death threats.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 29, 2009 at 1:23 am


It’s hard to believe someone would make such a false claim as this:
The government is to stay out of religion, but religion — specifically Christianity, here in the U.S. — is supposed to influence government! THAT is the true intent of the so-called “seperation clause” of the First Amendment, and is absolutely proveable through innumerable quotes from the Founders and other significant figures.
Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based
Christianity
Thomas Jefferson
“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.”
John Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states
“The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
James Madison
“What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.”



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 29, 2009 at 1:46 am


The poster who calls himself “Rev” had the audacity to ask a real ordained minister this question: “I’d like to know just how you, or anyone else, can say you’re an ordained Reverend, when nearly all of your opinions are in direct contradiction with the teachings of Christ.”
Here is Rev’s own description of himself on his website: “He is a jack-of-all-trades, and master of a few, with experience as a welder-fabricator, truck driver and auto-mechanic.” In other words he’s got no formal education and no qualifications as an ordained minister.
Rev calls himself Rev which implies he’s some kind of ordained minister. Nothing could be further from the truth yet he questions the credentials of Barry Lynn.



report abuse
 



Previous Posts

Another Blog To Enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting LynnvSekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow: Faith and Justice  Happy Reading!

posted 11:26:38am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Another blog to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Lynn V. Sekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow's Faith and Justice Happy Reading!!!

posted 10:36:04am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

More to Come
Barry,   It's hard to believe that we've been debating these constitutional issues for more than two years now in this space.  I have tremendous respect for you and wish you all the best in your new endeavors.   My friend, I'm sure we will continue to square off in other forums - on n

posted 4:52:22pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Thanks for the Memories
Well Jay, the time has come for me to say goodbye. Note to people who are really happy about this: I'm not leaving the planet, just this blog.As I noted in a personal email, after much thought, I have decided to end my participation and contribution to Lynn v. Sekulow and will be doing some blogging

posted 12:24:43pm Nov. 21, 2010 | read full post »

President Obama: Does He Get It?
Barry,   I would not use that label to identify the President.  I will say, however, that President Obama continues to embrace and promote pro-abortion policies that many Americans strongly disagree with.   Take the outcome of the election - an unmistakable repudiation of the Preside

posted 11:46:49am Nov. 05, 2010 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.