Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


Fear Not: One World Government Not Coming

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

Jay, I’m happy to talk about your fears about creeping internationalism and the end of United States sovereignty.  But wait!  You provide no evidence that this administration wants to give up America’s constitutional form of government or even its currency (that fear was so last week anyway).  Neither does it want to mind-meld with the other nations of the world during some giant Kumbaya moment.

Let’s look at the slim evidence you provide.  The Bush administration didn’t want to work with the United Nations Human Rights Council.  Prior administrations had; the current one apparently will.  Can you cite any evidence that our non-participation for the past 8 years improved the human rights landscape?  I don’t think so.

Harold Koh is a extraordinarily well qualified legal scholar with
impeccable credentials in international law.  His critics consistently
misrepresent his views on the relationship between the United States
constitution and international law.  In what “situations” do you think
he wants to subjugate US law to other principles?

There is not
one shred of evidence that Barack Obama wants us to be subservient to
any international body.  The United States is not even a party to the
International Criminal Court thanks to the bizarre ramblings of John
Bolton during his tenure at the United Nations during the Bush years. 
If we did accept involvement with the ICC, it would still not relegate
our constitution to some second-class status, nor deprive any U.S.
defendants (in the unlikely event there would be any) of basic civil
liberties.

Jay, honestly, the fact that Glenn Beck thinks
something is a problem is hardly a reason for anyone to jump on the
apocalyptic bandwagon.  Beck has built his career on fearmongering
about things that aren’t a problem, while ignoring all evidence around
him of the real challenges America faces.

To subscribe to “Lynn v. Sekulow” click here.



Advertisement
Comments read comments(123)
post a comment
Your Name

posted April 9, 2009 at 12:28 pm


Rev. Barry Lynn…you should go watch the Obama Deception and then see what you think. All is not as we see!



report abuse
 

The Constitution

posted April 9, 2009 at 12:57 pm


I heard your broadcast today. I am a Christian, a conservative by definition, not by political persuasion. I vote for the Constitution, which prohibits me from voting for Republicans or Democrats. Today I was extremely saddened by your show. Firstly, you project yourself as a defender of the Constitution and our national sovereignty. No sir, you are not. I am guessing you are an attorney. Yet from your testimony on air, it is clear you know not the very first thing about sovereignty and citizenship, nor the Constitution. You ridiculed the President for saying that we are a nation of citizens, and told your audience that all nations have citizens. Have you ever heard the phrase, “’tis better to have the world THINK you a fool, than to open thy mouth and remove ALL doubt.”? Because this phrase surely sums up your words today. My friend, not all countries have citizens at all. Citizens are individual sovereigns, and the USA is one of the very few countries in the world that has citizens. Other countries may call their subjects citizens, but that doesn’t MAKE them citizens – for only having the position of personal sovereign bestows the title of citizen. And you, you’re an attorney right? Hmm… You then go on about war, and torture and you give those things your tick of approval, and yet you then go back to talking about the Constitution and our Founding Fathers. I think you’re a little confused. Our Founding Fathers gave us a name for people like yourself – Domestic Enemies. Those who purport to stand for this nation, and yet see it fit to lead us into hell. You are a neo-con, a NEW conservative, which is no conservative at all, but rather a war-mongering liberal draped in the clothes of a conservative. A fascist, in other words. One of the same people that gave rise to Nazi Germany. The Constitution forbids us from going to war without a declaration of war from the Congress. We have had no declarations of war from the Congress since 1941. Pre-emptive war is not just blocked by our Constitution, it is blocked by the Word of our Lord. You are a pretender sir. One who criticizes our current president for undermining our Constitution, when no President has trampled, shredded, and shown such contempt for our Founding documents as GW Bush, is nothing but a divider of God’s people. I will say this, if you do not repent, and begin to honor God and His Word, and actually READ the Constitution, not just pretend to uphold, then you may well find yourself enjoying the fiery pit of hell along with those you say are subverting them, because YOU SIR, subvert all the more. Stop your radio show and go back to school, but before then, READ the Constitution, on air, including the amendments, so that your listeners will have a better understanding of this blessed document than you pretend, because by the mere listening or reading of the Constitution, one will see the error of YOUR ways and will see you for the divisive domestic terrorist that YOU are, and will know immediately the right path for this nation, without your destructive, divisive naive commentary on things which you do know or understand. Good day to you.



report abuse
 

Tiffany

posted April 9, 2009 at 4:36 pm


I am so glad that someone on the right wing has notice that all this rambling has no merit. I was beginning to think seriously about stop listen to Jay. I love the show and I don’t always agree with what he says but yesterday I heard him say that Obama went to Turkey and apologized on America’s behave, then Jay went on to say that He(Obama) was apologizing to the people who blew up the World Trade Center. That is a far stretch, if Turkey blew up the Trade Center why are we in Iraq? I wish the right would just calm down and at least give Obama a chance and stop attacking every speech and every action. We now work with Japan and they bombed Pearl Habor. At what point do we as a Country forgive and go on? When the Republicans say we should? When we snub other countries that does not make them turn around and try to work with us. It makes them dislike us because of the arrogance. You probably have never been made to feel like a second class citizen, but believe me it is no fun. I am glad we as America has finally got someone in office that feels “God made all of us” so we are no better than the next man, even if that man is a Muslim, Black, Arabic, Gentile or Jew.



report abuse
 

DSJulian

posted April 9, 2009 at 5:53 pm


Glenn Beck is a wingnut who is only trying to prop up his ratings by trying to keep up with the lunatic ramblings of Rush “Torture-is-ok” Limbaugh, Sean “What-kind-of-armed-revolution-do-you-want” Hannity, and Bill “Socialism-communism-and-facisim-are-the-same-thing” O’Reilley. I’m not scared that Obama might want to cooperate with other world leaders. What scares me is that Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, and O’Reilley actually have sponsors and viewers who take this crap seriously, and that the running joke of McCain-Palin got any more than their own two votes…



report abuse
 

Skip Mendler

posted April 9, 2009 at 8:28 pm


Those who fear the subjugation of US sovereignty to international law probably have no problem whatsoever with our subjugation to the “world government” that actually exists – namely the system of international finance. Scores of nations have found their “sovereignty” violated by the dictates of the World Bank and the IMF, with barely a peep from folks like Mr Sekulow.
No, what they really fear is the possibility of being held accountable.



report abuse
 

harryoutdoors

posted April 10, 2009 at 2:25 am


Preacher Barry,
I find it strange you don’t acknowledge two countries that once suffered under the iron rule of cruel dictatorships where any disagreement was met with torture and death are now experiencing the freedom of democratic elections.
Is this not an improvement of the human rights landscape?
You sound like Senator Obama’s wife saying this is the first time she has ever been proud of America.
This is our problem…human rights are now defined as those rights of the govenment to over-ride the rights of the honest worker.
Oh no!!! Can’t acknowledge freedom of individuals to vote…that would cast American Values in a good light.
George W. is looking better and better as time goes on!
On to the TEA PARTY!!!!!



report abuse
 

Mary-Lee

posted April 10, 2009 at 10:02 am


Oh no!!! Can’t acknowledge freedom of individuals to vote…that would cast American Values in a good light.
Individuals should have the right to vote only if those individuals want it. If individuals are satisfied with a monarchy, they should have a monarchy. Or whatever other system they want.



report abuse
 

hmm

posted April 10, 2009 at 12:39 pm


Last weekend, speaking in Prague, Barack Obama took the New World Order rhetoric to soaring new heights.
“All nations must come together to build a stronger, global regime,” he said
There’s one shred of evidence



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 10, 2009 at 12:57 pm


Soverignty at risk? We need only to look at the facts; our borders remain open with little to no Federal enforcement, funding for building the wall has been mismanaged, Washington has clearly become a large self-indulging power-broker who’s members legislate to serve themselves in permanent jobs with authority to vote themselves raises and benefits (with little to no accountability) that clearly resemble those of greedy corporate executives whom Washington themselves castigate. This is clearly a double standard. Washington picks and chooses laws they choose to enforce influenced by voter impacts. We The People are being left out of important decisions and Washington politicians choose to think they themselves are best suited to make decisions relying less and less upon seeking professional advise…so in the end, how can anyone NOT think our soverginty is at risk?



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 10, 2009 at 4:04 pm


Reverend Lynn can’t see the big picture because he’s been blinded by political indoctrination, plain and simple. We, the people see it because we’ve read the words of warning from the Founders, and we’ve put some of the pieces of the puzzle together — because we refuse to stick our fingers in our ears and yell “Blah! Blah! Blah!” in willfull ignorance of the truth!
To my mind (and a little thing called GOD’S WORD), a Shepherd is charged with caring for the sheep, and Priests, Ministers, and Reverends, are the Shepherds of their flocks. While a Shepherd may be relatively powerless to save all the sheep from running over the cliff to their deaths…he has a lot more ability and responsibility to keep the wolves at bay, or kill them.
Mr. Lynn, it seems, would rather just ignore the presence of the wolves, keep his fingers in his ears and appease himself with denial. Maybe he should just go play a nice game of solitaire, and let True American Patriots lead this country.
Very Sincerely,
The Reverend of the Republic



report abuse
 

Nicholas

posted April 10, 2009 at 10:28 pm


The end of an error.



report abuse
 

Cara Floyd

posted April 11, 2009 at 3:03 pm


Well let’s look at how our government is protecting our future generations with our founding documents. Let us look at the abortion issue, do I need to say more.
Thanks,
Cara Floyd



report abuse
 

Gwyddion9

posted April 12, 2009 at 1:30 am


We are, after all, a global economy and are interconnected and affect each other, even if we don’t like it.
While some whine about a “one world government” i really don’t see it happening simply because we have too many people in charge of the various countries who want it done their way. Ego, pride, arrogance, etc., is a common human frailty, which also affects our leaders. At the present time, i don’t see any one, be it leader or country that will give up its own sovereignty and sit ideally by. Too many people want to run the world and i don’t see them willingly cooperating each other. Granted there are some things that will need a global cooperation simply to keep things going but there are too many people in power who want it their way first and foremost.



report abuse
 

GAil

posted April 12, 2009 at 2:00 am


Moses led the children of Israel to the Promised Land….all that followed Moses didn’t believe in GOD….GOD could really only trust Moses. I don’t know of any man/woman that GOD has called us to follow except his Son. If Obama and his staff/workers/etc. think that there is any other way to GOD except Christ then how can we say we want to obey GOD if we are not looking to follow Christ. Christ said Himself, “there is no way to the Father except thru the Son”. Obama says he is a Christian…then if he is stating that GOD loves all religions and those religions do not believe that the way is thru Christ then Obama is just a church goer with no committment to lead people under GOD. Would GOD send someone to lead people in other areas and not by His Son Christ? WE in America need a leader that understands that Christ is the only way, THE ONLY WAY…and then we can understand better how to organize our nation in the morality that GOD expects of us.



report abuse
 

GAil

posted April 12, 2009 at 2:26 am


In response to Barry Lynn’s comment….it is important that we know where our leaders of the USA stand in their committment to loyalty of this nation. Jay Seculow is identifying with his Christian faith and acknowledging that this nation was formed in the roots of the Christian faith….that is why one sees churches (belief in Christ) in every city and practically on every street corner. The decline of Christianity that has happened in the last ten years or so has mostly came about because of the ‘harlotry ways’ that many have purposed not only in their sexual choices, but in their love for monies and in their desire to be well liked among many. For if they would truly love their neighbor as themself then they would care if their neighbor has a lit path to follow towards the knowledge that there is an almighty Creator and He does have a plan. Obama as our new president has already shown some failure to understand the committment that Christ requires…as Christ says, “if you do not forsake all that you have you cannot be my disciple”…that includes forsaking the acceptance of other religions in your own mindset though you may have to acknowledge that they exist (as Moses acknowledged that there was false worship among the tribes of Israel) …he still needs to follow Christ and let GOD be GOD. For Moses turned the situation over to GOD and the earth swallowed up the rebellious…Moses didn’t use dynamite…GOD just told Moses to step aside. Moses kept his fixation on His Saviour….we all should continue to turn all this over to GOD though we might now like how he treats rebellion …He still knows best. It is well to understand that it is impossible for Obama to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and still want to appease other religions on the plate for America. We should be the Light to help the others to see the Light. Acceptance to gain popularity is not the way of Christ. Obama may well have faith and go to church but unless he has been transformed in his soul to obey GOD thru Christ he is hardly a son of GOD, though he still is part of GOD’s creation. The only way to see that is to be transformed by the Spirit of Christ anyway. So expecting Obama to behave like a Christian when he doesn’t really know what one really is….is expecting too much of him as he still is in darkness/lack of understanding. Many of us were at one time just church goers and did good works (works by the way that we were taught by Biblical principles)…but it was when the Holy Spirit came and revealed the truth of His Son from our inward being being taught by GOD is when we really understood that we cannot exist here in this planet that has an unseen battle of spirits on it…except we have the power of the Holy Spirit leading us (thereby we have help from above..the Highest help…GOD and His Son Christ).
But what to do to help direct Obama to see this? we can hope that if GOD spared Paul (Saul) and opened his understanding that GOD may have mercy on us in this world that believe that Christ is the Ruler though unseen to many. When Obama starts concentrating on removing viagra ads off the network tvs, and removing nude photos selling hand lotions out of the AARP magazines and such…then maybe someone at the top level of our system may start seeing that all of that has something to do with trying to accept everyone and every thing that they do.



report abuse
 

GAil

posted April 12, 2009 at 2:34 am


I have to say that this fear of a ‘one world government’ might also have been the fear of the early Romans when they heard of those of the Christian faith. Perhaps that is why Christianity is still divided and there are those opposed to the Chrisian faith…because the battle for a one world under Christ government is still proceeding. Paul said, that Christ would rule over His enemies…and it is evident that the course of that action is still being carried out even in our own lives when we learn to submit to Christ then we are saying HE Alone IS LORD over us. The ‘one world government’ under Christ is not to be feared if we know it is the right path….but so does our enemy…that is why he has put ‘imposter Christians’ in place…for he knows that Christ indeed intends to rule the world visibly (and that the legal right to rule has already been established for Christ by His Father). I think we should let Obama know the truth of the matter and hope he isn’t an imposter Christian but just a sinner who still needs saved.



report abuse
 

GAil

posted April 12, 2009 at 3:06 am


There is not one shred of evidence that Barack Obama wants us to be subservient to any international body.
Are you sure about that Rev.Lynn? Could it be that Obama is just doing lip service to GOD and His Son Christ while wanting to be approved of by everyone else?
Take a look at the url with this…shows a set of pics with Obama praying with his head in a prayer position several times throughout the day…Should we expect his Christian values and faith to be visibly evident as a leader of the people of the USA? Why shouldn’t we? Don’t you also tell the Lord that HE is LORD? Or do you tell the Lord that He is Lord over you but not our government?
When Barack Obama made the statement that America is not a Christian nation ….he had a wonderful opportunity to follow up with the statement…’though the Christian faith is not as strong as it has been in the past, I believe that we as Christians will unite and be strong again and this nation will be led by GOD and His Son Christ”. Now what do you think the other nations would have thought about that Obama (who held his hand on the Bible and vowed at his inaugeration ceremony and then proceeded to eat lunch banquet after a huge amount of public prayer)…perhaps they may have seen him as a ‘real’ leader of the USA who isn’t afraid to announce that following Christ is the right path to overcoming the wickedness of this world. And with such a statement he may have had a few perhaps want to throw stones or hiss…but not standing for his faith in Christ and in the faith of a nation built on Christian values ..he is now having hissing at him from all sides and GOD may be one of them hissing at him for his lack of faith. Kind of reminds me of the story of how Paul rebuked Peter for seperating himself from the Christians and clinging to the Jews in the early episodes of their faith…yet we know that Christ promised that Peter would rule with him in the New Jerusalem. Trying to keep friendships with people and not telling them the truth of what is truth…is actually not being their friend.. and of course if they won’t listen or don’t want to hear it…then they weren’t your friend anyway.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 12, 2009 at 3:16 am


Gail,
Moses, Jesus Christ and God never existed. You might as well say the Easter Bunny led the Jews out of Egypt because the kingdoms of Israel and Judah described in the Bible never existed either, nor did any Jews before the 8th century BCE. You Bible believers who think the Bible is a history book are very entertaining and very wrong.



report abuse
 

gail

posted April 12, 2009 at 3:55 am


Just read ‘Your Name” comments in this blog…and I find his comments very precise and ‘on target’ to explaining just what the problem is.
I think many really know what the problem is but it is such a big one that they don’t know what to do for a solution. Neither did Moses and then GOD said to him…don’t pray for these people anymore…just stand aside. I think we are real near to Christ saying that to us as Christ is also a disiplinarian as some of us have already found out. Yet we shouldn’t stand in the way of the parent that needs to correct the child when it is being done for righeousness to prevail and GOD is the parent doing the correcting. When we as a people do not think immorality is still disgusting to GOD then we have indeed lost our way. I am glad that there are some still teaching their children to avoid ways of insulting GOD and His wisdom.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 12, 2009 at 4:23 am


Just read my refutations of ‘Your Name” comments in this blog…and you’ll find his comments are easily debunked, false and ‘off target’ to explaining just what the problem is.



report abuse
 

Gwyddion9

posted April 12, 2009 at 11:16 am


While I never considered it before, there seems to be a connection between the Conservative Christian sects and the beliefs of the One World Government as this fits nicely in their apocalyptic beliefs.
It appears that the general sentiment is one of fear and happiness, as the end will be coming. Personally, I don’t subscribe to such beliefs, as they’re not a part of my religion but it does make sense, in that, Christianity has a linear belief about everything, it begins and ends.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 12, 2009 at 8:04 pm


hmmm said
“Last weekend, speaking in Prague, Barack Obama took the New World Order rhetoric to soaring new heights.
“All nations must come together to build a stronger, global regime,” he said
There’s one shred of evidence”
Didn’t anyone else hear that? It gave me chills…I’m hearing too much of this kind of talk in our President’s speeches…



report abuse
 

gail

posted April 12, 2009 at 10:49 pm


Much of the problem is the lack of understanding the past and the future and relating it to the world Biblically. By only hearing others say that there is an interpretation in the Bible about a one world government without doing one’s own research (and with God leading the way) then people have misconceptions and those misconceptions can be a problem if one is in a political position.



report abuse
 

Chuck

posted April 13, 2009 at 5:16 pm


For those Atheists: Please consider reading a book titled: “The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict” and “More Evidence That Demands A Verdict” by Josh McDowell. Mr. McDowell, an Attorney, had intended to write a book to disprove Christianity, once and for all. He approached the subject matter as though he were preparing a case for trial, meticulously gathering and examining all of the evidence. He and his research team spent thousands of hours of comptent research based on an extensive bibliography made up of books and periodicals representing every point of view. What they discovered to be the truth was absolutely astounding. Another book entitled: “Jesus: The Evidence” by Ian Wilson is another impressive examination of the facts.
However, some well-known professing atheists, such as Aldous Hauxley and Bertrand Russell, have refused to come to intellectual grips with the basic historical facts concerning the birth, life, teachings, miracles, death, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Those who have – C.S. Lewis, C.E.M. Joad, and Malcom Muggeridge, for example, have found the evdience to be so convincing that they have accepted the verdict that Jesus Christ truly is who He claimed to be – the Son of God and their own Savior and Lord.
Following the events of 09/11/2001, I too, had questions about own beliefs and my chosen religion, Christianity. I also had questions about other religions such as Islam and Buddism. I decided to conduct my own research of the respective teachings while keeping an open mind. The result was a strengthening of my belief in Jesus Christ and in Christianity.
You are free to choose to believe, or not to believe as that is the basis of the reason that man was given a free will. The choice cannot be forced on you, but it must be made of your own free will.
Regardless, I respect your opinion and do not judge you as it is not may place to do so.
For your sake, I pray that you make the right choice.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 13, 2009 at 10:39 pm


Chuck,
Here is a scientists refutation of Josh McDowell’s books.
“In Evidence That Demands a Verdict, written three decades ago, Josh McDowell lists sixty-one Old Testament prophecies that he claims precisely foretold the coming of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. For w example, consider Prophecy 1 (all these are exact quotations):
PROPHECY: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel (Gen 3:15, Revised Standard Version)
FULFILLMENT: But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his son, born of a woman, born under the law (Gal 4:4, Revised Standard Version).
I am not sure what the prediction is here; that Jesus was to be born of a woman?
McDowell often repeats himself. In prophecies 14 and 32 he regards the statements in Luke 2:11, Matthew 22:43-45, Hebrews 1:3, Mark 16:19, and Acts 2:34-35 in which Jesus sits down on the right hand of God as a fulfillment of: “The Lord says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool’” (Ps. 110:1, Revised Standard Version). McDowell certainly views biblical prophecy as something different than simple scientific prediction. I would not be too far off base to note that Jesus sitting on God’s right hand has not been verified scientifically.
Each of the prophecies listed by McDowell is confirmed in no other place except in the Bible. We have no independent evidence that events actually took place as described – especially the ones happening in heaven. Before making the extraordinary claim that something supernatural occurred, simple common sense tells us that we must rule out the ordinary, far more plausible account that the events are fictional, written so as to conform to biblical prophecies. For example, Prophecy 55 takes the opening words of one of David’s Psalms, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me” (Ps. 22:1a, King James Version) and sees this precisely fulfilled with Jesus’ last words on the cross (Matt 27:46). Which is the more plausible account: an extraordinary event in which a thousand years earlier David predicted the exact words of the Messiah (although he does not identify them as such) or a perfectly ordinary one in which Matthew puts these words in Jesus’ mouth when telling the story of the crucifixion? Or, perhaps Jesus really used these words, remembered from the Psalm.
Many of McDowell’s examples have appeared frequently in Christian literature. Consider the prophecy of Jesus’ coming: “But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel whose origin is from old, from ancient days” (Mic 5:2, Revised Standard Version). We have no reason outside the New Testament to believe that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. History does not support Luke’s Christmas story about a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the Roman world was required to go to their place of origin to be “taxed” (King James Version) or “enrolled” (Revised Standard Version). Surely such a vast undertaking would have been recorded. History does record a census affecting only Judah and not Galilee, but this took pl;ace 6-7 CE, which conflicts with the fact that Jesus was supposedly born in the days of Herod, who died in 4 BCE.
Similarly, we have no historical mention of a star lighting up the sky, although spectacular astronomical events such as comets and supernovae were frequently recorded in ancient times. And, surely there would be a record of Herod’s slaughter of innocent children – had that really happened. The Jewish scholars Philo (c. 50) and Josephus (c. 93) described Herod as murderous and killing some family members to keep them from challenging his throne. Yet neither mentions the slaughter of the innocents. Furthermore, Jesus was never the ruler of Israel. This aspect of the prophecy actually failed. And, he was never called “Immanuel” either, as the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 supposedly foretold.
Perhaps one of the most important prophecies of the New Testament stands out like a sore thumb for its repeated appearance in the Gospels and a gross failure to be fulfilled. In Matthew 16:28, 23:36, 24:34; Mark 9:1,1330; and Luke 9:27, Jesus tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within a generation, before the listeners die. We are still waiting. Lack of evidence from outside of scripture surrounds the most important tale of the New Testament – Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection. Christian literature is filled with claims that these events were foretold. But again we have nothing outside of the Gospels that rules out what is the more plausible account: the authors of the Gospels formulated the life and death of Jesus to conform to their conception of the Messiah of the Old testament. Many people say they believe because of the many eyewitnesses who said they saw Jesus walking after he was supposed to be dead. However, that testimony is only recorded in the Bible, second hand, and years after the supposed fact. Eyewitness testimony recorded on the spot would still be open to question two-thousand years after the fact. Eyewitness testimony recorded decades later is hardly extraordinary evidence.
Furthermore, eyewitness testimony recorded on the spot today is notoriously unreliable. In a recent decade, sixty-nine convicts were released from prison, seven on death row, based on DNA evidence. In most case, these people were convicted primarily on the basis of eyewitness testimony.
Now, as with the Christmas story, we might easily imagine that independent evidence could have been found. Matthew describes what happened at the death of Jesus: “And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and rocks were split; the tombs were opened and many of the bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many” (Matt 27:51-54, Revised Standard Version). Again, we have no record of these phenomenal events outside scripture. If they really happened as described, Philo, Josephus, or one of the many historians of the time would very likely have mentioned them.
The few mentions of “Christus” in the pagan literature, decades after Jesus’ supposed death, do not provide the needed confirmation. They simply read as factual reports on a new cult that was appearing in the empire. Considerable controversy still exists on the validity of various statements taken from the writings of Josephus, which seem to support specifics of the Gospel stories. But, once again, these were written well after Jesus’ supposed death and were not firsthand observations. In short, despite the long list of Jewish and pagan scholars writing at the time, there is no record of Jesus being tried by Pontius Pilate and executed – much less rising from the dead.
Christian apologist William Lane Craig cites the empty tomb as evidence for the risen Christ. However, the gospels are inconsistent in their description of this event, as the reader should check for herself. Simply compare the four accounts: Mark 16:1-8, Matthew 28:1-10, Luke 24:1-11, John 20:1-18. even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that the story of the empty tomb is accurate, a much simple explanation exists. Suppose you are on a holiday in Paris and decide one morning to visit the tomb of Napoleon. You arise bright and early and find the tomb is empty. Would you conclude that the emperor had risen into heaven? Hardly. You would figure somebody took the body.
Since ancient times, many authors have commented on how the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus as described in the gospels are similar to those of savior-gods in various mystery cults and religions of the ancient world. True, this remains an issue much in dispute. In his exhaustive study of the background of the early Church, Everett Ferguson warns us that many of these generalizations are fraught with methodological problems and that the similarities between mystery religions and Christianity is exaggerated. He admits, however, that much of that exaggeration came from Christian writers themselves. The Jesus story sure looks just like you would expect it to look if it were patterned after other god-men.
Early Christian Church fathers such as Justin Martyr (d. 165), Tertullian (d. 225), and Iranaeus (d. 202) felt compelled to answer the pagan critics of the time who claimed the Jesus story was based on earlier traditions. The fathers claimed that the similarities were the work of the devil, who copied the Jesus story ahead of time to mislead the gullible. Lacking any independent corroboration, we cannot take the New Testament as evidence for a single fulfilled Old Testament prophecy, much less sixty-one. The story of Jesus, as related in the Gospels, with all its unconfirmed miraculous happenings, is more plausibly explained as a fiction, written to not only conform to Judaic traditions but also to move Christianity beyond being a tribal religion. The story appealed to gentiles as well, with the incorporation of many of their god-man myths.” – Victor Stenger



report abuse
 

harryoutdoors

posted April 14, 2009 at 2:58 am


Boris your source is pretty weak in theology and apparently is a lazy researcher as well. Here are a few falsehoods he told about Chrisitanity and the phrophecies…I’ll deal with others later…
Boris
April 13, 2009 10:39 PM
“PROPHECY: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel (Gen 3:15, Revised Standard Version)
FULFILLMENT: But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his son, born of a woman, born under the law (Gal 4:4, Revised Standard Version).
I am not sure what the prediction is here; that Jesus was to be born of a woman?”
Just like an atheist…you miss the point….Here Paul points out that the Messiah was born of a woman just as sin entered into the world through a woman…Satan is judged through the very same vessel he chose to try and destroy mankind…also Messiah Jesus was born under the law…so, He had to fulfill all the law in order to put away the curse of the law.
“The Lord says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool’” (Ps. 110:1, Revised Standard Version).
This is David saying the Messiah will be the King and sit at the right hand of God’s throne…David is clearing up the idea that the scripture is talking about himself…it’s talking about David’s Lord (Messiah Jesus) and not David so this is prophesying future and not the present.
History does not support Luke’s Christmas story about a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the Roman world was required to go to their place of origin to be “taxed” (King James Version) or “enrolled” (Revised Standard Version). Surely such a vast undertaking would have been recorded. History does record a census affecting only Judah and not Galilee, but this took pl;ace 6-7 CE, which coThe Census of Augustus
“He revived the office of the Censor which had long been disused and whose duty it had formerly been to take an account of the number of people.”
Seutonius Roman Historian – Augustus 23 – Lives of the Twelve Caesars
“He took a census of the people three times” – Augustus 27
“He took a census of the Roman people street by street “- Augustus 40
“Since the consuls caused a law to be passed soon after this that he should govern the provinces jointly with Augustus and hold the census with him”
Seutonius Roman Historian – Tiberias 21- Lives of the Twelve Caesars
“This contained the number of citizens, subject kingdoms and taxes. All these details Augustus had written with his own hand”
Tacitus Annals – Book 1 Roman Historian
Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be registered.
nflicts with the fact that Jesus was supposedly born in the days of Herod, who died in 4 BCE.
Furthermore, Jesus was never the ruler of Israel. This aspect of the prophecy actually failed. And, he was never called “Immanuel” either, as the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 supposedly foretold.
The prophecy of Jesus Christ is in two parts…every serious Bible Scholar knows this…the SUFFEREING MESSIAH and the REIGNING MESSIAH! The suffering Messiah concerns prophesy about Jesus earthly ministry where He suffers and dies for mankind and paves the way for His Triumphant return in the end times to rule in person upon the earth as King of Israel and the world.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 14, 2009 at 3:30 am


I’ll use an analogy I saw on the Internet once that describes how people are fooled by the prophecy hoaxers. A traveler sees an archer in the woods and notices five arrows in five trees each one right dead center in the middle of a white circle. The traveler approaches the archer and asks, “How did you ever become such a great shot? How did you get all those arrows so perfectly in the middle of those circles?” “Easy,” said the archer, ‘”First I shot the arrows and then I painted the circles around them.”
Now most of us know this is how the Bible was written. I think it’s really pathetic that there are grown people who can be duped so easily by such a obvious hoa



report abuse
 

Weldon

posted April 14, 2009 at 4:42 pm


Interesting analogy using the arrow and circle. Here are some points. True, there are prophecy hoaxers, but that doesn’t make prophecy impossible. Have you never predicted an outcome correctly? If we start with current issues, today there is a movement towards one world government. You hear about it in the news, our political leaders are talking about it; we have an organization called the united nations that is trying to control nations sovereignty. The last book in the Bible prophesies of a coming one world leader called the anti-christ or against Christ. This book was written almost 2000 years ago. So do we have the circle painted around the arrow here?



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 14, 2009 at 10:07 pm


Weldon,
You said: Interesting analogy using the arrow and circle. Here are some points. True, there are prophecy hoaxers, but that doesn’t make prophecy impossible. Have you never predicted an outcome correctly?
Boris says: Sure and your daily newspaper horoscope is always “fulfilled” and millions of Americans swear by the predictions of things like The Psychic Friends’ Network too. But people claim that the Bible is infallible and I could give you a whole list of failed prophecies and just one failed prophecy proves the Bible isn’t infallible. Plus the prophecies aren’t any less vague than those you can get from the Newspaper horoscopes and The Psychic Friends’ Network.
You said: If we start with current issues, today there is a movement towards one world government. You hear about it in the news, our political leaders are talking about it; we have an organization called the united nations that is trying to control nations sovereignty.
Boris says: If you studied church history you would realize that every generation for two thousand years has believed that Jesus’ second coming was imminent, because Bible prophecies allegedly foretold events of their generations also.
You said: The last book in the Bible prophesies of a coming one world leader called the anti-christ or against Christ. This book was written almost 2000 years ago. So do we have the circle painted around the arrow here?
Boris says: Yes because the one world government the author was talking about was Rome, which already existed. I doubt you can find an honest Bible scholar who would disagree with that. Anyway the Bible clearly says that even God cannot tell what the future will bring: And I thought, “After she has done all this she will return to me”; but she did not return and her false sister Judah saw it (Jer 3:7). About Judah the Bible says, God had a vineyard and he expected it to yield grapes, but it yielded wild grapes (Isa 5:2). The Bible says that what God expects to happen and how things actually turn out can often be quite different form each other.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 15, 2009 at 1:26 pm


Boris,
The EU waS FORMED IN 1993, Rome ruled several neighboring countries for about 400 years but there was no merger no agreement just domination and that my friend is in complete different context and all together different than a one WORLD government. We have seen changes in laws and soverngties for sometime now be blamed on security while money for security is being pulled.
I know many people do not want to be “that kind of person” to fall into hooplah but you have made yourself like one who says…
“Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’
You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times” What signs are you looking for.. GOd did say no one knows the day but to read the signs and to be PREPARED… you seem anti-preperation… And speaking of ROme Jesus is in their history without the necessary mention of diety.. and the TORAH spoke of the messiah far before any other belief system was developed!



report abuse
 

WitnessOne

posted April 15, 2009 at 1:31 pm


Boris that last one was from me.. not YOUR NAME..
I wanted to add some points.. The knowledge you have and are referencing also takes faith as you were not present to varify ANYTHING you say… You cannot discredit one reference to the past by merely using another.
Watch these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJoIbPkRvig



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 15, 2009 at 3:46 pm


Your Name,
You said: And speaking of ROme Jesus is in their history without the necessary mention of diety..
Boris says: There is no mention of Jesus or any of his disciples by any contemporary Roman or Jewish historians. Jesus and his supposed apostles completely absent from history and appear only in fictional tales of the supernatural. Please don’t tell me to read what second century historians like Pliny, Tacitus or Seutonius wrote about Christians. Having to use these people to defend claims that Jesus actually existed only demonstrated the weakness of your case.
You said: and the TORAH spoke of the messiah far before any other belief system was developed!
Boris says: First of all the Torah was redacted in 164 BCE. But even if we allow the superstition that we Jews existed a thousand or so years before we actually did there were belief systems around a long time before the supposed time of Moses. We can trace the laws and stories of the Old Testament back to their much older Babylonian, Egyptian and Palestinian influences.
According to Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30 the Messiah must be a physical descendant of David. How could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies listed in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth? Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.
Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Yet there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus, hence this is another Messiah prophecy not fulfilled. The gospels (especially Matthew 21:4 and John 12:14-15) claim that Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9. But the next few verses (Zechariah 9:10-13) show that the person referred to in this verse is a military king that would rule “from sea to sea”. Since Jesus had neither an army nor a kingdom, he could not have fulfilled this prophecy. “Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?” (Matthew 12:5) Nowhere does the OT state that the priests in the temple profaned the Sabbath and were considered blameless.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 15, 2009 at 5:24 pm


Boris,
The mere existence of the ROman Catholic Church shows the stamp of Jesus’s presence in europe, the fact that it was his decree to have him punished according to orthodox jewish law was something unheard of that he would not take full responsibility. The case of Jesus’ existence is profound and though you may argue his nature his existence is as etched in reality as George Washington’s and look at what you proof you have left behind and examine if it is significant enough to make someone believe thousands of years later… Jesus being human in nature assumes his step fathers lineage and his mother’s race and fulfilled many prohecies that can not come to pass again.. they happened and again you are trying to discretid history with history.. where is your back up for your claims to the past other than that they are opposing ideas from the past



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 15, 2009 at 5:38 pm


Jesus has no army? He will not rule?
Boris,
Your interpretation of prophecy is that of a child who takes context and puts it in their mouth and plays with it and throws it in the sand to forget it…
Jesus was to be in the lineage of David and was, funny you didn’t attempt to discredit the virgin birth but I am sure your disbelief in that is strong – that is purly faith and pointless to debate but the Prophecies..
What do you say about the ones Jesus did fulfill??
What are your thoughts on Daniel’s prohecies?
Are you going to say they were written afterwards..
Won’t that be a faithed based statement on your part as neither of us were in existence to debunk the origin or date of the book of Daniel and the prohecies that boggle scholars?
They won’t boggle the blind because you are not convinced by your own literal eyes..
look how complex the eye is and dna and it’s obvious we were created and by something coheirant and he has reached out to us… your opposition to some of these things seem over thought.. maybe you should start with the little proofs like our relationship with trees and our awareness, opinion, emotion that makes us different from animals..and try to wonder about past things after you’ve considered your own origin… You sound well learned but with little thought.. a bunch of leaves and no root



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 16, 2009 at 12:13 am


Your Name,
You are committing a typical logical fallacy by shifting the burden of proof. It’s never the responsibility of the person denying the claim to disprove it. The person who is making the positive claim is always responsible for proving it’s factual. Where is your proof that the Jesus of the Gospels actually existed? What historian who lived during the first half of the first century wrote anything about Jesus? Don’t tell me. I already know. The Gospel writers themselves are proof the Jesus of the Gospels really existed. Again we can prove Jesus really existed if we first believe he really existed and that the Bible is true because you say it says it is. We can also prove the existence of Superman by citing the eyewitness testimony of Lois, Jimmy and the chief. Where is all this evidence from outside the Bible that Jesus Christ actually existed? Since you claim there is as much as there is for George Washington you should have no problem coming up with something besides the same old references to Christians by second century historians Pliny, Tacitus, Seutonius and Eusebius’s forgeries in the works of Josephus. How do you expect me to believe in someone if you can’t prove he existed?



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 16, 2009 at 12:16 am


WitnessONEtoo
You said: Your interpretation of prophecy is that of a child who takes context and puts it in their mouth and plays with it and throws it in the sand to forget it…
Boris says: I don’t believe in magical explanations for things when rational ones are present and make much more sense. You take the opposite approach willing to credit supernatural mysticism whenever something seems beyond an easy explanation to you.
You said: Jesus was to be in the lineage of David and was, funny you didn’t attempt to discredit the virgin birth but I am sure your disbelief in that is strong – that is purly faith and pointless to debate but the Prophecies..
What do you say about the ones Jesus did fulfill??
Boris says: If you read how Jewish rabbis interpret the prophecies Jesus supposedly fulfilled according to the New Testament writers you’ll see how the NT writers twisted OT passages out of their original contexts and away from their original meanings. You can see these rabbi’s interpretations on the Internet. Read them and tell me what you think about these supposed prophecies about Jesus THEN.
You said: What are your thoughts on Daniel’s prohecies?
Are you going to say they were written afterwards..
Won’t that be a faithed based statement on your part as neither of us were in existence to debunk the origin or date of the book of Daniel and the prohecies that boggle scholars?
They won’t boggle the blind because you are not convinced by your own literal eyes..
Boris says: I’m not the one with literal eyes here, you are. I’ve never heard of any scholars boggled by the prophecies in Daniel. Scholars agree that the literary setting of the book is the sixth century BCE but the literary setting is not the setting in which the book was actually written. “The fact that chapter 11 obviously refers to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the Seleucid ruler from Syria, makes it clear that the book took its final form during Antiochus’s persecution of the Jews, which began with the desecration of the temple in 167 BCE. The inaccurate description of the end of Antiochus’s reign and of his death indicates that the book was finished before these took place in 164 BCE.” – Pamela J. Milne, Ph.D, Associate Professor of Religious Studies, University of Windsor. So unlike many of the books of the Bible we don’t have to guess at the date the Book of Daniel was authored. We know it was written between 167-164 BCE.
You said: look how complex the eye is and dna and it’s obvious we were created and by something coheirant and he has reached out to us… your opposition to some of these things seem over thought.. maybe you should start with the little proofs like our relationship with trees and our awareness, opinion, emotion that makes us different from animals..and try to wonder about past things after you’ve considered your own origin… You sound well learned but with little thought.. a bunch of leaves and no root
Boris says: This argument just shows you don’t understand evolution’s bottom-up design mechanism. The complexity of DNA didn’t just pop into existence. That’s creation magic, not science. The first cells had no DNA and reproduced by simply falling apart. The complexity of DNA is the result of 4 billion years of cellular evolution. If you understood multigenerational mutation and natural selection, and also understand how structures with irreducible complexity evolve, then you would see that there’s nothing unlikely or implausible about evolution at all. The animal kingdom is full of examples of simpler eye structures, all of which are functional, all of which are irreducibly complex, and all of which are susceptible to further refinement through evolution. A bald eagle for example, would not survive long enough to reproduce if it was born with the kind of poor eyesight we humans possess with our less evolved eyes. You aren’t going to get anywhere parroting arguments from creationist websites. You might want to try reading what real scientists have to say about science instead of the hoaxers at the Discovery Institute.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 16, 2009 at 11:44 pm


It’s amazing how many faith staements are in your reply and spoken with such surety in that it’s PROOF… How would one determine that something took MILLIONS of years to form, without faith?… you use a hypothesis to debunk an idea..
Please write me a Boris says about how your statements are FACT based and not SCIENCE saying we are SCIENCE and we TEST things and we have CONCLUDED…? wait… nope they don’t even always use the word concluded because the Evolution THEORY still has the word THEORY in it my friend…
Boris says,
The complexity of DNA didn’t just pop into existence = Faith statement
Boris says,
You aren’t going to get anywhere parroting arguments from creationist websites. You might want to try reading what real scientists have to say about science instead of the hoaxers at the Discovery Institute.
We Say,
There are many scientists who have come to the cross roads where science stops and hypothesis begins and sure many run with that hypothesis and build upon it with OTHER theories but at the end of the day you are left with a study that begins with the study of something that already exists unbenounced to you ofcourse and a guess…
WE SAY,
We admit that we have FAITH and that if we KNEW the entire origin with PURE surety then it wouldn’t be as sincere! As humans hold sincerity as a very significant attribue to our PURE happiness -
so does GOD!and
animals do not..
Good for the Eagle but your arguement adds to mine as to the complexity of creatures… CREATURES!! look that up.. Created beings!
There are far to many signs of purpose and conclusion within our own function let alone the complexity of how it all comes together in the world for it to have an origin of randomness if you will…
Boris says,
Your reference to the past is wrong and inaccurate because THIS reference of the past says so…
I am ammused by your tone but only with hope and yet saddened by your utter blindess to your own arguement’s simularity with mine..
We Say
it’s faith!
Boris says,
I have PROOF against you…
My friend you do NOT..
There is more support for a creater than there is for the star fart you call big bang!
Millions of years lol Proof lol
I don’t mean to be-little your arguement but it isn’t really yours at all.
Your doubt is a real thing and stems from something personal.
You aren’t going to get anywhere parroting spews of guesses, theories and hypothesis’
You might want to try reading what scientists who have come the end of the theory, where there is no more explination and have witnessed the miracles or (magic as you call ) and have said SCIENCE is the STUDY of what GOD has done!!!!!
watch these maybe…
It’s amazing how many faith staements are in your reply and spoken with such surety in that it’s PROOF… How would one determine that something tokk MILLIONS of years to form without faith… you use a hypothesis to debunk an idea.. Please write me a Boris says about how your statements are FACT based and not SCIENCE saying we are SCIENCE and we TEST things and we have CONCLUDED…? nope they don’t even always use the word concluded because the Evolution THEORY still has the wqord THEORY in it my friend…
You might want to try reading what scientists who have come the end of the theory where there is no more explination and have witnessed the miracles or (magic as you call ) and have said SCIENCE is the STUDY of what GOD has done!!!!!
watch these maybe…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=TUC9drrEAVU&feature=PlayList&p=C805D4953D9DEC66&index=3&playnext=4&playnext_from=PL
you copy and paste it my freind for the PURPOSE of viewing..
Purpose is everywhere isn’t now???
Good night Boris,
ONEtoo



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 17, 2009 at 12:17 am


Boris syays,
How do you expect me to believe in someone if you can’t prove he existed?
We Ask,
How do you prove anyone from the past existed before pictures?
Yu are full of faith and don’t even know it!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 17, 2009 at 1:19 am


Witness
Here’s a comparison between Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ you can find at Jesusneverexisted.com:
“Unlike the mythical Jesus Christ, we know what Caesar looked like and we have a complete history of his life. In turn, general, orator, historian, statesman and lawgiver. We have words written by Caesar himself and words written by both his friends and his enemies. Artifacts confirm his life and death, as do his successors. Caesar established a style of government – and a calendar – which endured for centuries.”
Why is it no other supposed figure from history besides Jesus Christ has people so desperate to prove he existed? Because he didn’t.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 17, 2009 at 9:55 pm


Boris says,
The acient documents that Christians believe in are false because THIS OTHER acient document says so….
We say,
Boris, please look carefully at your amunition and please reply to this…
Where were you when the foundation was laid?
Boris,
Is it not faith that you have in pre-existing documentation?
What would you call the firm stance you have beside these pre-Boris documents?
How do you know the men in which you are reading from weren’t wrong, lying, ill-informed, or simply spiritually near sighted like many individualists?
I am hoping you are able to admit that it is faith you have as well in that what you are reading is true….
What you are READING!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also please read April 16th’s 11:44 post



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 17, 2009 at 10:59 pm


Boris you say:
So unlike many of the books of the Bible we don’t have to guess at the date the Book of Daniel was authored. We know it was written between 167-164 BCE.
I have to point out that though a narrow time frame.. 167-164 BCE. is a guess…
YOU SAY WE DONT HAVE TO GUESS AND THEN YOU GIVE ME AN ESTIMATED DATE?
What reason do we have to believe in Christ.. we know we will suffer on Earth, I know there are people who run a mockery of what Christians believe and perform works to reach up to God but that is the sign of the RELIGION that Jesus warned against. Religion reaches up to God with works but the truth is that God reaches down to us for belief and love and HE performed the work FOR US on the cross..



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 18, 2009 at 12:45 am


Why don’t you take your anti-science rhetoric down to say Baylor, Notre Dame, SMU, Stanford, Muhlenburg, Brown, Princeton, Brigham Young, St. Mary’s, Marquette, TCU or any other CHRISTIAN college or university of your choice? Then ask the Christian scientists in the science department there why they teach evolution, common descent, cosmology, geology, oceanography, cell theory, quantum physics, paleontology, zoology, anthropology and all the other science you think is flawed because it disagrees with your particular wooden translation of the Bible. Ask them what the definition of a theory is while you’re at. When you can sell your creation magic to your own academic community and get them to teach that and stop teaching evolution like they’ve been doing for over a century get back to me. If you can’t get your own CHRISTIAN academic community to buy your arguments what in the world makes you think any atheists would? I mean really!
While you may wish that there was some purpose to everything and some magical meaning to your life that just isn’t so. Life is inherently meaningless which is no bad thing. It means we each to define the meaning and purpose of our own lives. I suggest you stop wasting your life on a delusion, stop hating your life on earth because your holy book demands it of you and wake up and smell the Godless 21rst century.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 18, 2009 at 1:10 am


Your Name,
You are distorting the language to make your case. There is a world of difference between faith and religious faith. I don’t have any beliefs that I’m not willing to challenge or change. You do. And not only that, you have beliefs that other people have told you are above criticism, and that it’s sinful to even question them and you’ve believed them. I would never do anything like that.
Now as far being able to tell the difference between fiction and history writing that’s quite easily done. When we read dialog between people speaking in complete sentences is story settings we are reading fiction. No historical narrative is written like anything in the Gospels or any other part of the Bible. You may want to get your historical and scientific “facts” from a book full of stories, poetry, songs and prose but those of us in the real world have better sources for these things.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 18, 2009 at 1:29 am


Boris,
You’ve danced around my question to you quite delicately…
The answer that you are avoiding is that what you are relying on as proof for your debunk of my faith IS FAITH in the truth of the documentation in which you are READING!!!
The mandates on school ciriculum are not set by the teachers in fact prayer was banned as well and not by the teachers my friend!
The definition from theory is different from the definition of fact!
Regsrdless of what other pretty words you have placed around your “educated guesses” at the end of the day NO SCIENTIST can say they hold the ultimate and undenyable truth and yet you claim to have it all in a nut shell…
Boris says,
Life is inherently meaningless which is no bad thing. It means we each to define the meaning and purpose of our own lives.
We say the purpose for your mouth is to talk the purpose for your penis is to urinate and produce seed in which when inplanted in an egg of a femal will spawn new new and there’s no purpose to life?
Do you not taste the purpose of fruit..
See that Garlic is shaped simularly to the bodys cells and coincidently cleans the body’s cells?
How the tomato has four chambers like the heart and is red and happens to be a proven source of blood food how the carot looks like the eye and so on and you side with coincidence rather than use your eyes for their purpose!



report abuse
 

WItnessONEtoo

posted April 18, 2009 at 1:37 am


Boris says,
I don’t have any beliefs that I’m not willing to challenge or change. You do.
We say,
Challenge your common sense…
The speed of light never changes…
We return to the dust in which we were formed…
If it’s meaningless don’t you think that would be all the more easier for me to go do the things that TRULY lead to my unhappiness… naw thats why we believe what he said because we have tries it our way and we realize the imperfect ways of our own imperfect desires…
Once you come to terms with your selfishness you will see all you wanted was your specific desires and where do those things lead you?
You leave them behind anyway for someone to play with….
You refuse to challenge yourself…
You don’t want any man written book to set a decree on your life so tell me what parts of the bible are so nazi like to you?
My eyes see a perfect GOD reaching out to an imperfect race of beings that he gave free will…
You see a moody group of people telling a story about a man in which got them KILLED.. what did the apostles have to gain by giving their life for a man they made up??????????
I challenge you to this..
Ask GOD if he exists!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 18, 2009 at 3:45 am


You said: You’ve danced around my question to you quite delicately…
The answer that you are avoiding is that what you are relying on as proof for your debunk of my faith IS FAITH in the truth of the documentation in which you are READING!!!
Boris says: The documentation that debunks your faith I am reading is the Bible. And I know it well.
You said: The mandates on school ciriculum are not set by the teachers in fact prayer was banned as well and not by the teachers my friend!
Boris says: “A prayer in a public school! God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organizied religion.” – Superintendent Chalmers
You said: The definition from theory is different from the definition of fact!
Boris says: A theory is an explanation of the facts. Evolution by natural selection and common descent are facts and the theory of evolution is an explanation of those facts.
You said: Regsrdless of what other pretty words you have placed around your “educated guesses” at the end of the day NO SCIENTIST can say they hold the ultimate and undenyable truth and yet you claim to have it all in a nut shell…
Boris says: Scientists don’t deal with your definition of “truth.”
You said: We say the purpose for your mouth is to talk the purpose for your penis is to urinate and produce seed in which when inplanted in an egg of a femal will spawn new new and there’s no purpose to life?
You said: Do you not taste the purpose of fruit..
See that Garlic is shaped simularly to the bodys cells and coincidently cleans the body’s cells? How the tomato has four chambers like the heart and is red and happens to be a proven source of blood food how the carot looks like the eye and so on and you side with coincidence rather than use your eyes for their purpose!
Boris says: Do you not see that we are what we eat? Those things didn’t pop up because we need them. We evolved because we ate them and most importantly we evolved away from our primate cousins because our ancestors ate meat.
You said: We say,
Challenge your common sense…
The speed of light never changes…
We return to the dust in which we were formed…
Boris says: The speed of light never changes? Tell that to the hoaxers at the Discovery Institute who claim light can travel faster than the speed of light. We do return to dust like most animals. Occasionally though animals get fossilized and exist for millions of years. But this happens very infrequently and some animals like carrier pigeons for example never fossilize no matter what. This is why we have gaps in the fossil record and not because evolution is a flawed explanation for the diversity of life on earth.
You said: If it’s meaningless don’t you think that would be all the more easier for me to go do the things that TRULY lead to my unhappiness… naw thats why we believe what he said because we have tries it our way and we realize the imperfect ways of our own imperfect desires…
Boris says: Just because your desires are not satisfactory to you doesn’t mean mine aren’t for me. Your just frustrated because atheists decline to be miserable like you tell us we should be.
You said: Once you come to terms with your selfishness you will see all you wanted was your specific desires and where do those things lead you?
You leave them behind anyway for someone to play with….
Boris says: Selfish? Do you have children? I raised three kids and busted my rear doing it. Then I got divorced and could have stayed single which is what selfish people do. But I married a single mom and I’m raising a stepson now who I just spent a few hours with and a few hundred dollars on earlier this evening when I would have rather been watching the Orioles and Red Sox. Talk to the fans of either of those teams and ask THEM if I didn’t make a huge unselfish sacrifice.
You said: You refuse to challenge yourself…
Boris says: I studied Classical and New Testament Greek in college and that is challenging. Try it. I saw a few students fall away from the faith just like Bart Ehrman says he did once he could read the Greek NT. I know Hellenistic literature and the difference between fiction and history writing.
You said: You don’t want any man written book to set a decree on your life so tell me what parts of the bible are so nazi like to you?
Boris says: How about this bit of brainwashing: “They are from the world, and therefore the world inspires what they say, and listens to them. We are from God; whoever recognizes God listens to us; anyone who is not from God refuses to listen to us. This is how we can distinguish the spirit of truth from the spirit of falsehood” (1John 4:5-6). There we have one of the Bible’s many defenses against free inquiry, skepticism, and critical thinking. Skepticism is our highest duty.
You said: My eyes see a perfect GOD reaching out to an imperfect race of beings that he gave free will…
Boris says: Your eyes see no such thing. That is wish thinking.
You said: You see a moody group of people telling a story about a man in which got them KILLED.. what did the apostles have to gain by giving their life for a man they made up??????????
Boris says: The apostles never existed. They’re part of the story. In fact there really isn’t any evidence that Christians were ever martyred. It’s all just a bunch of church propaganda. The truth is that the Christian church was the mother of all persecutors and the Dark Ages a time when no non-Christian was safe from persecution.
You said: I challenge you to this..
Ask GOD if he exists!
Boris says: First I challenge you to ask Allah if he exists. Will you do that and if not why not?



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 18, 2009 at 11:06 am


Boris,
I was not raised a Chirstian.
I am not your traditonal church going “Christian”
When I sought out for truth I stdudied and pondered and I asked all of them..
Buddah, Allah, Darwin, Jesus…
The bible is the only consistant history and asks us for nothing but to believe.. It doesn’t say kill others who do not believe it says love others who do not believe…
People like you want science to be right so that you don’t have anyone telling you that some of your choices ARE WRONG…
That is what I mean by selfish my friend!
You said,
Theories are explinations of facts.
We say,
You fire off at me for assuming my own interpretation and then apply your own to an obvious word like THEORY…
What most science and “thinkers” do is examine something to the point of their fullest comprehension.. explain their back up for believing their comprehension of what theyve STUDIED and some then stamp truth on it! to make them look smarter…
Some science does not attempt to be so seedy and misleading…
Some science admits that it is ONE THEORY….
If there are several THEORIES about something does that mean there are several DIFFERENT FACTS about something?
CAN ONE THING HAVE OPPOSING FACTS ABOUT ITSELF? NOPE!
Boris says,
The apostles never existed. They’re part of the story. In fact there really isn’t any evidence that Christians were ever martyred. It’s all just a bunch of church propaganda.
We say,
Paul existence and matyrdom is etched in history AND how do you know who existed my friend?
You assume such fact and still haven’t answered my initial question…
HOW IS IT NOT FAITH YOU HAVE IN WHAT YOURE READING IF YOU WERE NOT PRESENT TO HAVE WITNESSED WHAT YOU ARE READING?????
BORIS SAYS,
First I challenge you to ask Allah if he exists. Will you do that and if not why not?
We say,
Mohammed took from the bible added and deleted themes..
Why take from the core and change it?
If there had been no TORAH or New Testament there would NEVER have been a KORAN.. The KORAN is plainly uninspired opposition to not only race but the message of the NT.
When I say you are selfish Boris I mean your demand for a tangiable proof of greater being than you truly shows your gawl!
You may lead a great life but even you can admit it’s not perfect.
Boris says that I am miserable with my life and unhappy with my desires…
I say,
There is an obvious difference in right and wrong and you will deny that right and wrong exist for the sake of your arguement…
I have good wishes and dark desires as all humans but does it make me miserable?
Nope! I love life as much as any other human and hate life as much as any other human.. to say that I am burdened by my faith in God is a presumption that just isn’t true…
That is a theory that doesnt fly my friend.. try another theory…
So B,
If I am wrong all that happens is NOTHING literally butwhat if youre wrong? Thats not a hypothetical question to pose fear I really want to know what you think about that!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 19, 2009 at 12:34 am


WitnessONEtoo
You said: I was not raised a Chirstian.
I am not your traditonal church going “Christian”
Boris says: What was the religion of your parents may I ask?
When I sought out for truth I stdudied and pondered and I asked all of them..
Buddah, Allah, Darwin, Jesus…
Boris says: Define the words “truth,” “studied,” and “asked” please. Your statement is not coherent. FYI Truth doesn’t demand belief. In an IQ test the question would be which of the four names above doesn’t belong with the others. Wanna guess?
You said: The bible is the only consistant history and asks us for nothing but to believe.. It doesn’t say kill others who do not believe it says love others who do not believe…
Boris says: The Bible is not in any way consistent with history or science. What other collection of literature or book asks us to believe it? You don’t find that to be a little suspicious?
You said: People like you want science to be right so that you don’t have anyone telling you that some of your choices ARE WRONG…
Boris says: All your arguments can be turned on their heads and used against you, you know. Obviously you don’t think them through and just get them from other Christians. People like you want science to be WRONG so that you don’t have anyone telling you that some of YOUR choices ARE WRONG. See how easy that was? Freethinking people don’t need other people telling them how to live especially people who profess to speak for the God of their own particular religion. What choices do unbelievers make that believers don’t make exactly? Evangelical Bible believers get divorces and abortions at a rate 50 percent higher than the national average. 70 percent of evangelical men and 37 percent of evangelical women admit to having a problem with Internet porn. You can check these figures for yourself but they are broadcast every day on the Richmond radio station Jay Sekulow is on, WTRU. The percentage of Christians in federal prisons is significantly higher than the percentage of Christians in the general population. Interestingly according the Department of Prisons in 1997 only .02 percent, 2 out of every 1000 prisoners professed to be atheists. At that time the percentage of professing atheists in the general population was 14 percent. Who is it that is making wrong choices?
You said: That is what I mean by selfish my friend!
Boris says: I’m not selfish because I don’t believe OTHER PEOPLE when they talk about an invisible sky wizard. I don’t care what they call it. They’re selfish for trying to force their beliefs on me in order to bolster their own shaky belief system. That’s what’s really going on here.
You said: We say,
You fire off at me for assuming my own interpretation and then apply your own to an obvious word like THEORY…
Boris says: I gave you the exact definition of what a theory is according to every scientist on this planet. Look it up for yourself. A theory is an explanation of the facts. The definition of a fact is simply a widely held observation. You fundamentalists don’t like that definition either. In fact Bible believers purposely distort the meanings of many words such as, love, wisdom, truth, freedom, grace, liberty and many others in order to distort reality.
You said: What most science and “thinkers” do is examine something to the point of their fullest comprehension.. explain their back up for believing their comprehension of what theyve STUDIED and some then stamp truth on it! to make them look smarter…
Boris says: That is absolutely false. Science never claims to have the final word because all findings are always subject to further revision in the future. That is one of the basic tenets of scientific method. It is inexcusable for someone to even discuss science when they don’t understand the first thing about scientific method.
You said: Some science does not attempt to be so seedy and misleading…
Some science admits that it is ONE THEORY….
If there are several THEORIES about something does that mean there are several DIFFERENT FACTS about something?
CAN ONE THING HAVE OPPOSING FACTS ABOUT ITSELF? NOPE!
Boris says: Scientists are not seedy and they don’t attempt to be misleading. You are confusing them with theologians and Christian apologists. No avenue of human endeavor is more open to scrutiny than science. Like I said, let me know when you can convince your own CHRISTIAN academic community to stop teaching all the science you don’t believe in. Until you can do that just drop the subject of science because you have no case according to all the CHRISTIAN scientists in the world as well as the atheist ones. You certainly are not qualified to make any comments about science.
You said: Paul existence and matyrdom is etched in history AND how do you know who existed my friend?
Boris says: Name it and claim it. Etched in what history exactly? Name the documents and their authors and what they say. Let’s see you find one reference to the Apostle Paul in any contemporary historical document. Just one. This should be easy since his existence is so “etched” in history. I already know you’ll find nothing. No one has ever found a word about Jesus, Paul or any of the disciples in anything. People who actually existed left evidence behind of their existence, not just some stories written almost 100 years after the supposed events you think they describe. You should be brave and honest enough to just openly admit that is all you’ve got.
You said: You assume such fact and still haven’t answered my initial question…You said: HOW IS IT NOT FAITH YOU HAVE IN WHAT YOURE READING IF YOU WERE NOT PRESENT TO HAVE WITNESSED WHAT YOU ARE READING?????
Boris says: I already answered this question. The answer destroyed your position and so now like a true creationist you’re going to ignore the answer and ask the same question over and over again rather than just man up and admit defeat. We have complimentary evidence to support many historical reports. I gave you a good example of this by illustrating very clearly how we know Julius Caesar existed. We have absolutely nothing from outside the Bible that could even hint that something inside the Bible even might be true. If there were we would never hear the end of it from Christian apologists. Instead all we get is 19 different television shows about this stupid fake shroud. You’re going to have to do a little better than that. But I already told you. I studied literature in school, how to criticize it and tell fiction writing from history writing, especially when it’s written in Ancient Greek. I can tell the Bible is not historical by the way it’s written. I can tell Herodotus wrote history by the style of the narratives. I can tell Plato did not and Socrates is a fictional character. It doesn’t take a college degree to know these things. A public schooled fourth grader should be able to tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction.
You say: We say,
Mohammed took from the bible added and deleted themes..
Why take from the core and change it?
If there had been no TORAH or New Testament there would NEVER have been a KORAN.. The KORAN is plainly uninspired opposition to not only race but the message of the NT.
Boris says: I’ve studied both books and the Koran doesn’t have nearly as many scientific and historical inaccuracies in it as the Bible does. But you’ve avoided the question. Will you ask Allah if he exists or not? How can you know until you ask him? Stop accusing me of avoiding questions to hide the fact you’re ducking all of mine. It isn’t working.
You said: When I say you are selfish Boris I mean your demand for a tangiable proof of greater being than you truly shows your gawl!
Boris says: Your demand that I believe in an invisible being without any tangible proof or even a tiny shred of evidence is what I would call unmitigated gall. If there is a God and it wants me to believe in him let it tell me, not you.
You said: You may lead a great life but even you can admit it’s not perfect.
Boris says that I am miserable with my life and unhappy with my desires…
Boris says: Define perfect. Even in a perfect game a pitcher doesn’t strike everyone out himself. Pitchers have varying degrees of perfection in their perfect games. I have no real regrets. I’ve done what I wanted to do. You on the other hand are told that you must hate your life. If you don’t you are disobeying the Bible. So are you ignoring the biblical command to hate your life or do you really hate your existence?
You said: I say, There is an obvious difference in right and wrong and you will deny that right and wrong exist for the sake of your arguement…
Boris says: Nonsense. The very definitions of these words imply that the concepts of right and wrong do exist. But they exist only here on earth. The argument is over where these concepts came from not whether they exist or whether people generally agree on them. The rest of the universe has no concept of our human definitions of these words or any others. We taught ourselves morality, the difference between right and wrong just like we taught ourselves the difference between right and left, language, math and everything else we know.
You said: I have good wishes and dark desires as all humans but does it make me miserable? Nope! I love life as much as any other human and hate life as much as any other human.. to say that I am burdened by my faith in God is a presumption that just isn’t true…
That is a theory that doesnt fly my friend.. try another theory…
Boris says: I have no desires I’m ashamed of. I don’t think I know what that’s like. “I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and distorted by religion.” – James Buchanan (1791-1868) 15th U.S president Because of its cultic mentality it’s hard for people to recognize the deleterious effect religious faith is having on them. I’ll give an example below.
You said: If I am wrong all that happens is NOTHING literally butwhat if youre wrong? Thats not a hypothetical question to pose fear I really want to know what you think about that!
Boris says: It never fails. Do you know how many times I’ve been asked that question? It always comes after the Christian has seen all his or her arguments soundly refuted and has run out them. This question is based on Paschal’ Wager which is a really silly bunch of folly if you just think about it for a minute. A person cannot just decide to believe something they find it impossible to believe in. It’s too bad Paschal’s mind was so narrowed by religious beliefs he couldn’t conceive of that problem with his wager. Why couldn’t you? You just claimed above you weren’t burdened by faith but you cannot comprehend that people cannot just adopt beliefs they find preposterous. You can’t even figure out why other people find your beliefs preposterous. How can you expect me to believe in something I can’t believe in? Can you believe in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus? Obviously the same argument can be applied to Islam too. A Muslim could say you have everything to gain and nothing to lose by trusting Allah. Christians never realize they’re in just as much danger of going to the Muslim hell as unbelievers are the Christian hell. I’m a biological organism, not a god who can live forever. Your God isn’t going to follow me to my grave to punish me for all eternity because I didn’t by into your particular religion.
Suppose you’re wrong. What if Allah came to earth and performed many miracles, raised some dead people and then told everyone it was time for the end of the earth and we all had to repent, reject all other Gods and follow him or be cast in hell? Would you do it? Would you repent for mistakenly buying into the wrong religion and follow Allah after witnessing miracles yourself that proved his supernatural powers? Answer this question before you make any other remarks directed at me. Then answer all the rest I asked you in this post. I answered all of yours, some at least twice now.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 19, 2009 at 2:16 pm


There is an anger in your tone that can not be caused by haveing “the answer” know that first!
You asked If I would cop out of what I believe in now if Allah came down and performed miraclesw….
No!
Miracles are not the only reason I believe what I believe…
If Allah could come and do and be all of the things that the Torah’s messiah was supposed to be then he would be Jesus.. Mohammad’s Allah is not YHWH but is dervied and a more racially motivated VERSION…
So what you’re saying to answer the question of
YOU BELIEVEING IN OTHER BOOKS TO DISPROVE MY BOOK..
Is that there were statues and drawings of Cesar.. Fine then good we know Cesar exisits because of statues and drawings..
What about the ERgyptian statues and drwaings are we to assume that Pharoahs had human bodies and animal like faces based on their drawings and statues..
You faith lies in anything anti! Bottom line is you cannot prove any of your references to the past you have faith in them!!
They nay nake more sense to you due to Who you are and How you think but BOTTOM LINE you are most correct in this statement
Science never claims to have the final word..
Thats all I wanted to hear from you well that and the admission that you are READING just like I AM and you were not there to claim to have a more real take on life than mine because of the studies youve done and what you can tell by reading.. you are hilarious!
Boris says,
I studied how to read things from the past and I learned how to tell if something was written as history or if it’s flat out fiction beacuse I caN TELL THESE THINGS AND A public schooled fourth grader should be able to tell the differen ce between fiction and non-fiction.
NO CHILD WILL LOOK AT SOMETHING WITH THE DOUBT YOU HAVE IN YOUR EYES..
YOU ARE READING TO DISPROVE NOT TO LEARN YOU ARE COMPARING ONE ANCIENT DOCUMENT TO THE NEXT AND SAYING THIS ONE IS HISTORY BECAUSE ITS FORMAT IS CONSISTANT WITH THAT OF WHICH I WILL ACCEPT AS HISTORICAL BUT THIS ONE.. THIS ONE NO… THIS ONE I CAN TELL IS FICTION..
YOU CAN TELL FOR YOURSELF BUT YOU CAN NOT SAY YOU HAVE THE FINAL WORD IN YOUR OWN WORDS THE PEOPLE INWHCIH YOU TRUST IN DO NOT CLAIM TO HAVE THIS FINAL WORD
MY MOTHER WAS A FREE SPIRIT NEVER IN TO ONE THING OR THE OTHER GOT INTO A LITTLE WICKA BUT I WAS RAISED A SECULAR CHILD
I WONDER WHAT MAKES YOU SO ANGERY WITH CHRIST!?!?!?!?
ANSWER ME THAT.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 19, 2009 at 2:52 pm


Jesus Christ never existed and that is a fact of history. There is no way to disprove that fact. I’m angry with all those who not only claim this person did exist but that he is God and I need to obey him. If Jesus did exist though I’d spit in his face for sending all my Jewish ancestors to hell and then dare him to do the same to me and laugh when he could not perform this miracle.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 20, 2009 at 11:41 am


Wow!
Sounds serious! I do not have such discontent towards anyone even you who will say,
Jesus Christ never existed and that is a fact of history.
Jesus is ot proven according to your STANDARD of proof but neither are the documents you use against him…
Jesus did not send anyone to hell.. he allowed them their choices and more importantly he did not send ALL Jews to hell my friend…
Just the ones who spit in his face etc.
You change definitions to suit your cause when the definition of theory is an explination of studies you call it the explination of facts.. your standard for accepting scientific facts is not that of the standard you hold the bibles ancient texts to… your standard for philisophical facts is lower than that of the ancient newspaper called the Bible…
If it weren’t true the many eye witnesses of the time would not allow for this teaching to presume.. all it brought Jews was hardship yet you claim these fictional charachters had something to gain who gains by this story other than the individual believer… why would the Jews allow this story to take them all the way to the Hollocost without denying it….. Yuo are a fool and a shame to your ancestors!
Yu waste words on argueing to block yourself from having to sit down with these spiritual testimonies that tell you your are as uch faithful in your readings as I am in mine and your readings take no presidence since you WERE NOT AROUND TO attest to the accuracy of your WRITINGS!
Again.. a bunch of leaves, no root!



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 20, 2009 at 2:18 pm


Dear Boris, Christ’s existance has been proven not only by Historic references but varioius religious entiities. While even my Jewish ancestors and those of today have spoken of his exesistance, it was in the capacity of being a great orator and Rabbi who through parables relayed the word of our Father in Heavens existance. While the diffenence between Christian and Jews are the fact that Christaians believe Chirst to be the the son of God that the New Testament Prohicied, the Jews are still waiting for the sone of God to come save them as a grown man, and not through being born as an infant, growing and participating theourhg the same trials and tribulations that hsi other brothers and sisters on earth have gone through. How else would the divine ever truly understand our pain and what we go through to be able to help us endure. Faith is believing in what is not seen, the unknown; kind of like not being able to see your internal organs, but knowing they are there (hopefully) functioning in the capicity they are meant to do. We do not see the air (unless you live in L.A.) but we inhale and exhale it with every breathe we take; taking it forgoanted that it is there for us to breathe. If you do not belive that Christ existed, then I guess only time will tell and someday, somehow, like the Jews he will make his existance known, in what the Christians beileve will be his second comming here on earth. For the Jews it will be the first, as they expect him in all his glory to come riding in the chariot of fire. He will break the news to thme that they (his own ) nailed him to the cross the last time he revealed himself. You have every right not to beleive what you do, however, please do not disgard thousand of years of studies from scholars of histories past and present who have documented the mans very exisitance; if even as just a man and a Rabbi. He did exist.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 20, 2009 at 10:28 pm


Your Name and Witness
I don’t care how many people have spoken of Jesus over the years. What contemporary historical evidence can you provide that Jesus Christ ever existed? It’s quite apparent to me that you’ve bought the party that such evidence exists and is even abundant without actually looking at what this evidence is. Well I have and very carefully too. The truth is that there is no hard historical evidence for Jesus’ existence coming out of the first century at all. What is very telling is that the closer we get to Jesus’ alleged time, the greater is the denial or ignorance of his existence. But the further from it we get the greater and more insistent are the “proofs” of it.
“In his challenging work The Twilight of Christianity, the Bible scholar Harry Elmer Barnes reviews the meager number of non-Gospel mentions of Jesus – a sum total of twenty-four lines from Pliny, Tacitus, Suetonius, and Josephus – and states that, given that these passages are virtually all forgeries and interpolations, they constitute poor evidence of what the orthodox insist on calling on of the best attested events in history… Add to this the undeniable fact that there is, in the extant Jewish literature of the first century, not a single authentic reference to the founder of Christianity… He lists Bruno Bauer, Albert Kaltoff, Arthur Drews, J.c. Stebdel, Emil Felden, Jensen, Lublinski, Bolland, Van der berg, Charles Virolleaud, Ryner Couchoud, Gerald Massey, Emilio Bossi, Georg Brandes, John M. Robertson, G.R.S Mead, Whittaker, Edward Carpenter, and W.B. Smith among the eminent scholars and critics who have contended Jesus was not historical.” –Tom Harpur, professor of Greek New Testament, University of Toronto.
Okay Your Name and Witness make your case. Since you insist Jesus existence has been proved tell me what this proof is exactly. I suggest you visit Jesusneverexisted.com if you think the case for the existence of Jesus Christ is so good. You’re going to be very surprised at how you’ve been hoodwinked by the most evil entity that has ever existed on this planet. Your Christian religion.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 21, 2009 at 6:25 pm


It is a sad day on this planet when someone of your nature tends to have to quote or send someone to the almighty internet to do your research, as opposed to the actual literary references. granted the internet has its uses for research, but I am from the “hoodwink” (wink, wink) era where we actually had to do research ourselves (that means read, meditate, pray, think about it, formulate on our own thought processes) and not just rely on what is in black and white. How about those gut feelings or instincts that actually tells you something is right or wrong; The “Common Sense” you so refer to in your “discussions”, you accuse individuals of not using (since you must know us ALL so well)! How do you know what is authentic or not, are you that old to actually know what was written,carved or signaled at that exact moment in time!? My guess would be No, otherwise IM guessing your as ancient as Socreties himself! Your all about the “proof” of someones existance. Besides your birth certificate, and the fact that you keep answering these posts, how do we know you are who you say you are!? Snicker all you want, but its a fact, that we do not have “proof” that you are any kind of authority on this topic than any of the scholars who have proven time and again of Christs existance. I have attended synagogs, churches and temples (many religions) that have all discussed Christs exisitance, and their concluusions ranged from he was a great orator, rabbi and yes maybe even the son of God sent here on earth to deliver his messages. BUt no matter what the religion or forum; they all concluded that , yes, the man did exist. Just because a few shcolars (those that you named) have said that he was not historical, does not mean that the “man” did not exist! You yourself, may never have historical meaning, but that does nto mean you as an individual, man, human, mouse, rodent, ape, emu, horse, donkey, however you wish to be classified, do not exist. OOps gotta get back to work..becasue that surely does exist. Later!



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 21, 2009 at 6:27 pm


Boris,
First please describe what evils there are to true Christianity…
I am not in the business of proving Christ existed by an contemporary standard of literary references to the past that by the way predate both you and I
but you are and yet when your own proof references Christ like you say above you call the references forgeries…
Typical!
You refuse to admit that you faith in what you are reading – youd like to call it proof..
I am more real about what I call proof…
If I see it with my own two eyes then I will use the word proof thus I can not proove Christs exitence any more than you can prove he did not exist and I do not claim to have proof I claim to have FAITH you claim to have proof that only proves that you are not an independent thinker at all!
Boris,
What year were you born.. remember that year!
That year marks the beginging of Boris’ ability to hold to an eye witness account of the world.. Anything YOU can prove can not be prior to that date and even so you can only prove it to yourself…
Stop trying to stamp proof on the topic and assume that others will accept your beliefs in contemporary literature as THEE PROOF!
Words are merely descriptions of existence but sadly “The Thinkers” have made an art of words. This art will always be blown away by good old common sense so here..
You are reading pre-Boris literature and hold to it because of it’s following and widely accpeted belief in it’s authenticity!
So are Christians just a different book..
You have faith in yours..
We have faith in ours…
The good thing is that soon we will find out and I promise not to rub this in your face!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 21, 2009 at 8:58 pm


WitnessONEtoo
You said: First please describe what evils there are to true Christianity…
Boris says: The claim to have absolute truth is a false claim. Evil wears many disguises but the mask of virtue is the most dangerous of them all.
You said: I am not in the business of proving Christ existed by an contemporary standard of literary references to the past that by the way predate both you and I
but you are and yet when your own proof references Christ like you say above you call the references forgeries…Typical!
Boris says: I footnoted that quote and it came from a former Anglican priest and Greek New Testament professor who was quoting another scholar he agreed with in his book The Pagan Christ. The passages in the works of Josephus did not exist until church propagandist and liar Eusebius magically produced a copy with them in it. Before that Origen and other church fathers wrote that there were no references to Jesus Christ in the works of Josephus. If there had been the early churchmen would have hurled them as evidence for Jesus back at their Pagan critics who claimed Jesus was a mythical god-man based on the pagan dying and resurrecting saviors of the world. The passages in the works of Tacitus were exposed to ultraviolet light and they are forged also. The rest of the 24 sentences Christians point to from SECOND century sources are equally suspect but are too late to be any kind of evidence anyway. Again, there is nothing at all coming from the first century that could give any evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed. The first witness of any of the Gospels didn’t even come until Iraneus mentioned one in 190 CE. So even the Gospels are not contemporary with the supposed time of Jesus.
You said: You refuse to admit that you faith in what you are reading – youd like to call it proof..
I am more real about what I call proof…
If I see it with my own two eyes then I will use the word proof thus I can not proove Christs exitence any more than you can prove he did not exist and I do not claim to have proof I claim to have FAITH you claim to have proof that only proves that you are not an independent thinker at all!
Boris says: There is a very big difference between faith and religious faith. I base what I believe on well thought out educated guesses and I am willing to change my views based on the discovery of new evidence. You base your views on religious dogma fed to you by other PEOPLE who frightened you into believing what you do and you won’t consider challenging or changing them. Don’t tell me you did challenge them before you became a Christian. That doesn’t count.
You said: What year were you born.. remember that year!
That year marks the beginging of Boris’ ability to hold to an eye witness account of the world.. Anything YOU can prove can not be prior to that date and even so you can only prove it to yourself…
Boris says: Nothing can be proved for sure and I don’t need it to be. I’ve done very well living by educated guesses rather than by faith. No one needs things to be proved absolutely to know they are true.
You said: Stop trying to stamp proof on the topic and assume that others will accept your beliefs in contemporary literature as THEE PROOF!
Boris says: I know the difference between fiction writing and history writing because I’m NOT a person of faith who can easily overlook these things just because so many other people have and do.
You said: Words are merely descriptions of existence but sadly “The Thinkers” have made an art of words. This art will always be blown away by good old common sense so here..
You are reading pre-Boris literature and hold to it because of it’s following and widely accpeted belief in it’s authenticity!
Boris says: What literature? The Bible proves itself to be false. No outside literature is necessary.
You said: So are Christians just a different book..
Boris says: Your book is fiction.
You said: You have faith in yours..
We have faith in ours…
Boris says: Again there is a very big difference between faith and religious faith. You have been frightened into believing what you do so you cannot make an unbiased rational, objective decision about your religion. You are too frightened to question the things that freethinkers do because you really believe simply doing that will send you to hell. No one inside a cult can tell how false it really is until they leave it.
You said: The good thing is that soon we will find out and I promise not to rub this in your face!
Boris says: Christians can never substantiate any of their claims or make arguments that aren’t easily refuted so they quickly resort to the standard threat that if someone doesn’t buy into the beliefs of their particular religious cult they’re going to suffer unbelievable violence for ever and ever. That brainwashing worked pretty good on you we see but it hasn’t got a chance with someone who has a good scientific and philosophical worldview. You might as well tell me Santa Claus isn’t going to put me on his list this year. Do you people not realize two very important things? Only Christians are afraid of going to the Christian hell. And you’re just as likely to wind up in the Muslim hell as an unbeliever will wind up in yours.
Did you check the website I sent you to. Or are you too afraid of what you might find out?



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 21, 2009 at 9:10 pm


Your name,
We are expected to believe that Jesus was entirely ignored by all secular writers at the time that he supposedly lived even though:
Special star appears to signal his birth (Matt 2:2).
Massacre of infants in attempt to kill him (Matt 2:16).
Goes about ‘healing every disease and every infirmity’ (Matt 4:23).
Fame spreads throughout all Syria so ‘all the sick’ are brought to him – who are then healed by him (Matt 4:24).
Followed by ‘crowds’ (Matt 5:1).
‘Great crowds’ follow him (Matt 8:1).
Heals leper (Matt 8:3).
Heals paralysed servant (Matt 8:13).
Heals Peter’s mother-in-law (Matt 8:15).
‘Many’ afflicted brought to him: he heals ‘all who were sick’ (Matt 8:16).
Great crowds follow him (Matt 8;18).
Heals demoniacs and kills some pigs (Matt 8:32).
Heals paralytic (Matt 9:7).
Crowds witness healing (Matt 9:8).
A ruler comes to him for help with daughter (Matt 9:18).
Heals woman with hemorrhage (Matt 9:22).
Heals ruler’s daughter (Matt 9:25).
‘Report of this went through all that district’ (Matt 9:26).
Heals two blind men (Matt 9:30).
They ‘spread his fame through all that district’ (Matt 9:31).
Heals dumb demoniac (Matt 9:33).
Crowds marvel (Matt 9:33).
Heals ‘every disease and every infirmity’ as he travels about cities and villages (Matt 9:35).
Followed by crowds (Matt 9:36).
Preaches in cities (Matt 11:1).
Speaks to crowds (Matt 11:7).
Heals man with withered hand (Matt 12:13).
Many follow him and ‘he heals them all’ (Matt 12:15).
Heals blind and dumb demoniac (Matt 12:22).
‘Great crowds gather’ around him (Matt 13:2).
Speaks to the crowds (Matt 13:34).
Herod hears about Jesus’ fame (Matt 14:1).
Crowds follow him, he heals the sick, and feeds 5000+ (Matt 14:13).
On entering Gennesaret, he is recognized and all the sick are brought to him and all those who touch him are healed (Matt 14:36).
Great crowds come to him with the sick and they are healed (Matt 15:30).
‘The thong’ see ‘the dumb speaking, the maimed whole, the lame walking and the blind seeing’ (Matt 15:31). Feeds 4000+. Crowds are sent away (Matt 15:38).
Meets crowd and heals epileptic (Matt 17:14,18).
Large crowds follow him in Judea and he heals them (Matt 19:2).
Great crowd follows him on leaving Jericho (Matt 20:29).
Heals two blind men (Matt 20:34).
Ejects Temple traders (Matt 21:12).
Heals blind and lame (Matt 21:14).
People call for his execution (Matt 27:23).
All the people admit responsibility (Matt 27:25).
Darkness ‘over all the land’ (Matt 27:45).
Temple curtain torn and earthquake (Matt 27:51)
Saints came out of their tombs and appear in Jerusalem (Matt 27:52-53).
Resurrected from dead (Matt 28:1ff).
It is of course too absurd for words for any rational person to suggest that anyone who was involved in all of this (and the above is only from Matthew – John has further miracles), and in just three years (John) or one year (Synoptics), could go unnoticed by all the secular writers of the time, and indeed anyone capable of writing. – Mark Smith



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 21, 2009 at 10:44 pm


Boris,
Tho you have posed a good theory for Your Name’s reply it is still an OPINION!!!
You can not call it obsurd when there are some secular writings tho not as many as you and Mr. Smith would assume there should be but HOW ARE WE TO KNOW THERE WEREN”T MORE.. how do you KNOW?
The writers could have thought it sounded as absurd as you thought and never made mention or did and was decreed not to as most government was not always keen on freedom of speach!!!
There is reference to ALL of what Jesus did and after THOUSANDS of years….
You listed them yourself and you say its the story’s lasting power of a delusional and schizophrenic group of (evil) jews that has come all this way to reach an american male like me who is young and able to go have what you would probably call fun but I am consumed by this ancient and evil jew story of a man who is an angry God and I’m miserable so I need to believe in something that puts me down and yet all the while complete randomness is the explination of a functioning and purposeful existence?
That’s what you’re saying?
Now it wasn’t documented ENOUGH? First not at all and then a little but they were forgeries and now simply obsurd that it wasn’t mentionede enough secularly…
I pose this question how often is the Gospel referenced now in secular media?
Maybe theres a few references here and there and not really references just more a use of his name is frustration or whatever other colloquialism that contemporary language has attached itself to it but not many stories or messages in secular media and why because it’s CALLED SECULAR!!!!
Yet at the end of the day, my common sense statement of the day applies to this reply as well
WitnessOnetoo says,
You have faith in yours..
We have faith in ours…



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 22, 2009 at 3:01 am


Witness,
No. You have faith and I don’t. It doesn’t take faith to not believe what other people claim about an invisible and silent being and a bunch of absurd fairy tales. Look it up. Atheism is a LACK of faith in any Gods. That’s it. You should be brave enough to admit you have believed the words of other PEOPLE and that’s why you believe in God.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 24, 2009 at 8:29 pm


Boris,
Your attempting to play with my words.
I know that atheism is no faith in the existence of God which is a BELIEF that no God exists…when I say you have faith in yours I am obviously refering to your faith in the documentation that you are using to “prove” that no faith is THEE truth. You do not KNOW if there is NO God so you have FAITH in that there is no God and merely because there is no proof that meets your standard.
You have FAITH in Science.
Fact and Theory have opposite definitions. Look it up.
You are arguing against yourself because you say that truth is relative and then say you have the truth. If truth is relative then there is no such thing as truth and any 4 year old knows that there is right and wrong!
Which is it? No truth or Your truth?
Many of the bibles writings are historical and yet you choose to BELIEVE there is no GOD based on WRITINGS by opposing BELIEFS!
You are not a stupid man but dumb no wait stubborn is better.. not far off but better.
Look at what you are saying and you have MAKE yourself believe these things and it is your mission to MAKE other doubt in the way that you have come to doubt.
You believe that Chance created Purpose. That a random event has somehow spawned meaningful processes. That does not make sense by even your own standard.
I am not saying YOU are wrong Boris but what you are saying is!
I have done the things you’ve asked me…
Return the favor…
ASK GOD IF HE EXISTS!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 25, 2009 at 12:12 am


Witness,
You said: Your attempting to play with my words.
I know that atheism is no faith in the existence of God which is a BELIEF that no God exists…when I say you have faith in yours I am obviously refering to your faith in the documentation that you are using to “prove” that no faith is THEE truth. You do not KNOW if there is NO God so you have FAITH in that there is no God and merely because there is no proof that meets your standard.
Boris says: First of all there is a very big difference between faith and religious faith. Having faith in something usually means one will change their minds when presented with new evidence about it. Having religious faith means never changing ones mind and adhering to religious dogma and doctrine and defining truth as being in agreement with this dogma and doctrine. Non-belief is the natural position to take on anything until something has been proved. The existence of God has not been proved or scientifically verified and the supposed proofs for God are all easy to refute such as the First Cause, Design and Morality arguments. Arguments are not evidence and science is based on evidence, experiments, demonstrations and a healthy dose of skepticism, not arguments. Therefore it takes no faith to be an atheist.
You said: You have FAITH in Science.
Boris says: That’s hilarious. When do scientists ever ask us to have faith in their findings? On the contrary scientists constantly review and refine each other’s findings. Only religion demands faith but truth doesn’t demand belief.
You said: Fact and Theory have opposite definitions. Look it up.
Boris says: A scientific theory is an explanation of the facts. If you don’t believe me ask any scientist at any CHRISTIAN college or university. Then you can ask them why they teach all these “theories” you disagree with as fact at their Christian school. How do you explain that may I ask?
You said: You are arguing against yourself because you say that truth is relative and then say you have the truth. If truth is relative then there is no such thing as truth and any 4 year old knows that there is right and wrong!
Boris says: You’re confusing two subjects here. Truth and the difference between right and wrong are two different things. I agree four year olds usually do know right from wrong, but not always. Mentally challenged children for example, often don’t know right from wrong because good behavior has to be taught by the parents or whoever is rearing the child. Sometimes it can’t be and we have institutions and asylums full of adults who were never were able to distinguish right from wrong, acceptable behavior from unacceptable behavior. This proves that morals must be taught and have evolved as humans have and could not possibly come from any God.
You said: Which is it? No truth or Your truth?
Boris says: Here is your definition of truth: “They are from the world, and the world inspires what they say, and listens to them. We are from God; whoever recognizes God listens to us; anyone who is not from God refuses to listen to us. This is how we can distinguish the spirit of truth from the spirit of falsehood” (1John 4:5-6). Truth refers to facts or sincerity not to correct scriptural doctrine.
You said: Many of the bibles writings are historical and yet you choose to BELIEVE there is no GOD based on WRITINGS by opposing BELIEFS!
Boris says: That’s simply not true. What writings in the Bible are historical exactly? The story about a 500 year old man building a ship the size of the Titanic and putting millions of animals and insects on it and keeping them all alive on an enclosed ship for a year? The story about a man spending three days in the belly of a fish? No one needs any outside influences to be able to discern that the stories in the Bible are not historical narratives. The Bible proves itself to be fiction. Almost all fiction mentions historical places and historical people. Just because people like Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Herod and Caesar are mentioned in the Bible doesn’t mean other people not mentioned in any historical documents like Moses, Joshua, David, Solomon, John or Jesus actually existed. These people were supposedly well known to surrounding people groups and nations but no one ever wrote a single word about any of them. We know that Nebuchadnezzar didn’t have three magical Jewish advisors and didn’t do the things the Bible claims. We have no record of Cyrus giving a decree that a Jewish temple be built. Very importantly there is no evidence that Herod ever ordered any children killed let alone the mass slaughter described in the Bible. There is no evidence that the Apostle Paul was a houseguest of Caesar’s, any Caesar. How do we know? Nowhere but the Bible do we have supposed dialog from historical figures like Cyrus, Herod and Nebuchadnezzar. These historical figures are merely grist for the Bible’s story mill and in the Bible they’re as fictional as the rest of the characters are.
You said: You are not a stupid man but dumb no wait stubborn is better.. not far off but better.
Boris says: I’m not the one who cannot change his beliefs because I’m afraid I’ll be punished for it. You are.
You said: Look at what you are saying and you have MAKE yourself believe these things and it is your mission to MAKE other doubt in the way that you have come to doubt.
Boris says: Skepticism is our highest duty. I don’t care what you believe. I simply do not believe other people when they talk about God. You do.
You said: You believe that Chance created Purpose. That a random event has somehow spawned meaningful processes. That does not make sense by even your own standard.
Boris says: I do not believe there is any purpose to random and careless nor are physical or chemical processes meaningful. We have to make our own purposes and make our own lives meaningful. We can do this a lot easier if we don’t waste our lives on a delusion put in our heads by other people.
You said: I am not saying YOU are wrong Boris but what you are saying is!
I have done the things you’ve asked me…
Return the favor…
ASK GOD IF HE EXISTS!
Boris says: I’ve repeated the Lord’s Prayer as it appears in Matthew in Greek probably a thousand times. I had to memorize and learn to write it for Greek class and my in-laws often ask me to say it at holiday meals and I’ve said for other people for other reasons or occasions. Or just so I don’t forget it. Does that count for anything? Because I haven’t gotten any heavenly responses yet. If there is a God either it’s not a God who hears prayers or if it’s your God he knows I don’t really believe what I’ve been saying in this prayer all these years. You know, because I don’t believe in prayer. So how about this? I’ll just ask God if he exists on this blog. Now if he answers on the blog, well that would be some proof huh? But it would probably be just some knucklehead fooling around and not really God. But perhaps God will see that I’ve written publicly for all to see my request that he grace me with his presence so at least I know he exists. I don’t think I can do much better than that. So God, do you exist and are you the God of the Bible, Koran, the Deist or some other God? Sorry for bothering you. WitnessONEtoo made me do it. P.S you’ve really got to get some better representation here on Earth.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted April 25, 2009 at 3:45 am


Boris,
You said that Theory is the explination of facts well then lets see
Per Webster’s Dictionary
THEORY
a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of …
hypothesis: a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; “a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory”; “he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was …
a belief that can guide behavior; “the architect has a theory that more is less”; “they killed him on the theory that dead men tell no tales”
FACT
a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; “first you must collect all the facts of the case”
a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; “he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts”
an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; “your fears have no basis in fact”; “how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell”
a concept whose truth can be proved; “scientific hypotheses are not facts”
I did not add or take anything out of the above definitions all may google them for yourselves…
You said that I am believing what people day.. well aren’t you when you refer to the writings that you claim to disprove the mere existence of Christ and especially since you claim them to take presidence over anything I am reading.. again your book is better than mine?
This is what you have faith in..
When was your last scientific study?
If none then you have faith in science!
You said:
I do not believe there is any purpose to random and careless nor are physical or chemical processes meaningful.
If this were true there would be NO such thing as function.. your eyes would not see to read my reply your brain could not send messages to your fingers to type yours. your DNA sent messages to create the organs that are functioning without your assistance your entire being and existence is based on meaningful purposes.. because you deny the purpose of existing things does not make them go away or your physicality would vanish before your working eyes due to your doubt!
I am not saying to question you are correct in that it is our duty to be inquizative but you are not curious.. you are claiming to hold proof that there is no God…
You will see Christ and you will seek me out to make right all of the things youve said that you yourself know to be the spewing of proclimations that are truly disrespectful! Ofcourse after you appologize to him that is…
Your assumptions don’t stop there, no.. you claim to know why I believe in God… You have NO IDEA who, what, where or when I went through anything that I went through you assume to know my position which showcases the nature of what you KNOW!
I agree it takes no faith to be an atheist if you believe in nothing at all then you have NO faith but you can’t claim to be faithless and then take the side of something that you
A) took no part in to determine absolute conclusion of proof
B) made anything with your own hands to understand the foundation and miracle it would take to CREATE life!
Are children not created? So the penis has no purpose..
You said that most children know right from wrong but then that mentally challenged kids do not as if that were proof of anything…
Mentally challenged children are still aware of their existence.. they may not have the wireing to be able to detrmine structural and procedural commonolgies meaning they might cuzz/swear or fart or behave inappropriately according to societies standard but they KNOW when they are being hurt and KNOW when it isn’t right.. They KNOW when they are being loved and when it is PERFECT.. they may not have the ability to use words in the same manner as you have mastered but the exist and KNOW it!
You said,
I simply do not believe other people when they talk about God. You do.
I can tell you truly that when Benny Hinn talks about God I do not believe him, when Bishop T.D. Jakes, Creflo DOllar, Juanita Bynum, You, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, 7th Day talk about God I just don’t believe what is being said.. so no I don’t jump at the first chance to follow anything..
You can tell that Boris..
You read and see that I am not a follower of men and their precepts…
You are trying to group me with the 1958 bible belt of Mississippi slave owners who used the word of God to do wrong…
Guns are made to protect… What do men do with them?
and so it is with the strongest power of all…
What happens is there is play on words after play on words and a what if here and a why not there…
Ideas are meant to build up.. What do men do with them?
and so it is with all of free will…
Some will want that power for themselves. They are dominant and self motivated and see that the love in this message wins the heart faith and soul of the people..
The people will be fine but woe are you who take the heart of the hopeful and and say,
You fools you hope in vain for we have proof and the proof is our idea and we have set a standard and our idea has met that standard…
No fool, your standard is mystical and ours is chemical and then revert back against you prior idea by saying
Still chemical structure is relative, unimportant and of no design oh and purpose is debateable…
Who is the fool?
Do you not see the presumption in your attack and the hole in your hypothesis?
You said that God needs better representation..
If better were needed would there be such fight for you? Would there be any debate if Gods reps were hardcore-refudable? WOuldn’t I believe you because you talk about God.
You said
I’m not the one who cannot change his beliefs because I’m afraid I’ll be punished for it. You are.
Sounds easy to me.. why would I not want to just admit that there is obviously no consequence for my natural wants and actions???
I am not perfect!
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
By your own account of life… We merely cooperate with eachother to live civilized lives and other than our common goal of existing and living a cliche life full of common goals we would be naturally and are naturally unaccountable for ANYTHING… anything goes…
There is no conscience only fear..
Fear that I will end up in hell for eternity so, I deny all the common sense around me and deny MY TRUE self so that I can MAYBE live happily ever after…
WOW!
From experience.. there is a feeling bwyond guilt.
Not all will feel this as you have quoted scripture correctly by saying that not all will hear (feel)
This feeling that is beyond guilt is an outside look at ones ownself a feeling of disappointment as opposed to fear.. at this point one does not fear much at all because THIS feeling is beyond fear…
This feeling is like a cross road a point where one tells themselves..
“THIS.. THIS is NOT me!” ” I want to CHANGE”
One does not want to change ones NATURAL SELF out of fear or guilt but out of recognition that what they did was disappointing from the inside OUT!
You call to God is a mockery of your own redemption and quite disrespectful… I wanted you to get a good response but respect begets respect
Once there was a boy named Brandon and one day at school
he lost his new marble. He cried out I just had it in my hand!
He cried out to his classmate and said I cannot find my marble.
He looked and looked and cried out to the teacher and said I can not find my new marble and she asked when did you last see it? Brandon cried out and said I just had it in my hand, it has to be here…
Brandons calssmate Joey also really liked this marble and saw that Brandon was not taking very good care of it and was dropping it and then picking it up just to drop it froma higher point. When Joey heard Brandon cry out he felt saddend by the teary tone in Brandons cry.
At the end of school, the marble never turned up.
The final bell rang and Brandon walked to the door in sorrow to hear Joey cry out wait Brandon I will stay with you and look for it, the others have left and we can really look good if we move all of the furniture and Brandon said, I have looked and looked and I have not seen any sign of it.
Joey’s mother called for him and Joey ran outside to ask her if it was ok that he stay a little longer to look for something and as she said yes, Brandon hopped into his Father’s jeep.
Joey went back and moved all of the desks to find a few pencils and gumdrop, as he was picking up the green gumdrop to throw it away he saw a glimmer in the corner of the projector rooms bottom door seal.
He found the marble.
He brought the marble back to school with him the next day to give Brandon but Brandon ran up to him and said look I found this you can keep that marble cuz this one was meant for me to find.. Brandon then went on to explain that his mother gave him her coffee cup from starbucks to throw away and when he looked in the trash he found a different marble and it was the same color as the shirt he was wearing that day. When Joey told him I think that’s a gum drop bite into it, Brandon said well bite into yours first and then I will bite into mine. Joey said but I know this one is marble it sounds like glass…Brandon said then lets play a round of shoots and see if my new marble is real… when Joey’s marble cracked Brandon’s gumdrop Brandon cried out I am sorry please I want my marble back and when the scool bell rang to begin class the teacher waked in with a bag of marbles for all to share.
Let those who have ears hear and those who have eyes see (purposefully)
Good night Boris,
Hope you have a great Saturday.
Take the wife and kids out and stay off of the computer for a day… we can pick this up on my sabbath! =0)



report abuse
 

phinix

posted April 25, 2009 at 4:12 am


Boris,
THEORY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A theory, in the general sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of observations. A theory does two things:
it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena, and
makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class.
The term is often used colloquially to refer to any explanatory thought, even fanciful or speculative ones, but in scholarly use it is reserved for ideas which meet baseline requirements about the kinds of observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of that class. These requirements vary across different fields of knowledge, but in general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: i.e. a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena.
Theories are distinct from theorems: theorems are derived deductively from theories according to a formal system of rules, generally as a first step in testing or applying the theory in a concrete situation. Theories are abstract and conceptual, and to this end they are never considered right or wrong. Instead, they are supported or challenged by observations in the world. They are ‘rigorously tentative’, meaning that they are proposed as true but expected to satisfy careful examination to account for the possibility of faulty inference or incorrect observation. Sometimes theories are falsified, meaning that an explicit set of observations contradicts some fundamental assumption of the theory, but more often theories are revised to conform to new observations, by restricting the class of phenomena the theory applies to or changing the assertions made. Sometimes a theory is set aside by scholars because there is no way to examine its assertions analytically; these may continue on in the popular imagination until some means of of examination is found which either refutes or lends credence to the theory.
The word ‘theory’ is generally considered to derive from Greek ?????? theoria (Jerome), Greek “contemplation, speculation”, from ?????? “spectator”, ??? thea “a view” + ???? horan “to see”, literally “looking at a show”.[1] A second possible etymology traces the word back to ?? ????? to theion “divine things” instead of thea, reflecting the concept of contemplating the divine organisation (Cosmos) of the nature. The word has been in use in English since at least the late 16th century.[2]
read this too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_and_fact
theoretical
1 a: relating to or having the character of theory : abstract b: confined to theory or speculation often in contrast to practical applications : speculative
2: given to or skilled in theorizing
3: existing only in theory : hypothetical



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 25, 2009 at 9:54 am


Your Name,
Your post is about as incoherent as anything I’ve ever see. I don’t know what you are talking about. Does the story about the kid losing his marble have anything with you losing all of yours?



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 26, 2009 at 2:07 am


phinix
What’s your point? That the earth may be flat after all like the Bible says it is?



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 26, 2009 at 10:19 am


Evolution is both a theory and a fact. A fact is something we observe in the world, and a theory is our best explanation for it. Stephen Jay Gould famously addressed this argument by pointing out that the fact of gravity is that things fall, and our theory of gravity began with Isaac Newton and was later replaced by Einstein’s improved theory. The current state of our theory to explain gravity does not affect the fact that things fall. Similarly, Darwin’s original theory of evolution was highly incomplete and had plenty of errors. Today’s theory is still incomplete but it’s a thousand times better than it was in Darwin’s day. But the state of our explanation does not affect the observed fact that species evolve over time. -Skeptoid



report abuse
 

scott

posted April 26, 2009 at 4:18 pm


from Rod Mattoon
After all that the Lord has done for this country, we have the audacity in Washington D.C. to make laws that forbid prayer and the public display of the Ten Commandments in our schools and governmental buildings, all under the guise of separation of church and state. Beloved, the separation of church and state is not found in the Constitution of the United States of America. It’s not there at all. These anti-God attitudes are saying, “What is the Lord to us? He is not important.”



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 26, 2009 at 5:21 pm


The Ten Commandments demand the worship of only one God in a country founded on freedom of and FROM religion. There could not be a more fascist, anti-American document than the Ten Commandments. People who want the entire world to live by these archaic mind-numbing laws are the people who want a one world government. The ultimate hypocrites – Christians.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted April 27, 2009 at 11:43 am


There is freedom of religion here and yet we as Christians do not get that same freedom.
Everyone is allowed to believe what they want but as soon as there is anything relating to the Biblical beliefs there is a histeria and fear that Christians are being pushy and that our artifacts are suggestive…
Christian artifacts are not suggestive to other religions.. other religions could care less about the ten commandments but you who fear the word of God want no sign of anything relating to it otr it’s truth..
Such a weak argument when you live by someo f them and yet they are evil?
Boris you are an “arugue-er” you do not debate you argue because you will go against your own arguement in the hope that the surrface reader will not see into your full statement…
You do not murder nor do you want your wife or her children murdered yet it’s a fascist rule implemented by hypocrites?



report abuse
 

Boris

posted April 27, 2009 at 7:50 pm


WitnessONEtoo
You said: There is freedom of religion here and yet we as Christians do not get that same freedom.
Boris says: Oh please. You Christians claim that somewhere between 76 and 86 percent of the country’s population professes to be Christian and then claim you’re a persecuted minority somehow. Just one more case of Christians talking out of both sides of their mouths depending on which untruth they happen to be promoting at the time.
You said: Everyone is allowed to believe what they want but as soon as there is anything relating to the Biblical beliefs there is a histeria and fear that Christians are being pushy and that our artifacts are suggestive…
Boris says: That’s because you people think your holy book applies to the whole world. But this collection was written and voted on to be the Scripture for YOUR religion NOT the whole world. And you hi-jacked and grossly misinterpreted and therefore misappropriated Jewish scripture, which has absolutely nothing to do with gentiles, their church and especially not their dying and resurrecting pagan god-man. The whole world didn’t choose this book as their guide, the churchmen from YOUR religion did. This being said the Bible is NOT the property of your religion either even though it makes that claim too.
You said: Christian artifacts are not suggestive to other religions.. other religions could care less about the ten commandments but you who fear the word of God want no sign of anything relating to it otr it’s truth..
Such a weak argument when you live by someo f them and yet they are evil?
Boris says: We don’t fear what you Christians claim is the word of God. We don’t believe a collection of absurd fairytales and barbaric myths compiled, argued and debated over, and then voted on by religious fanatics to be separated from many other tales and letters hundreds of years after they were written as the basis for the Christian Church is the word of God. Until you can prove some of the absurd claims your “word of God” makes like that the earth is flat and never moves the Bible remains the words of men like it has always been.
You said: Boris you are an “arugue-er” you do not debate you argue because you will go against your own arguement in the hope that the surrface reader will not see into your full statement…
You do not murder nor do you want your wife or her children murdered yet it’s a fascist rule implemented by hypocrites?
Boris says: Every society that has been studied including those that existed long before the Jewish people even existed (which wasn’t until the 8th century BCE BTW) has had laws against murder and stealing. These concepts didn’t just pop out of a burning bush on a mountain no one has ever been able to locate. Four of the Ten Commandments have to do with the proper worship of an ancient imaginary tribal deity and have no place in a nation founded on religious freedom.
You said: Grow up man!
Boris says: I don’t believe in invisible beings. “When I was a child, I used to talk like a child, and see things like a child; but now that I have become an adult, I have finished with all childish ways” (1Cor 13:11).



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted May 4, 2009 at 9:56 pm


LOL and you quote scipture too!
What you believe in is an imaaginary combustion that spit out a mathmatical process by chance! This is a revolving contradiction of itself to say the least.
You say that Jesus is the pagan God-Man and that too is a self contradiction…
The Messiah came and it is not Pagan just because SOME Jews do not accept him as the Messiah, whose coming was FORTOLD
I do NOT believe that the WORLD has to apply the word of GOD..
GOD allows free will and so do I..
Will I refrain from using my freedom of speach to say what his WAY and Will are.. NO You have the wpr;dly freedom to sin and I have the worldly right to call it such…
Again your references are opinion and YOU have the burden of Proof against God as much as I have the burden of Proof as it (after Thousands of years) is still DEBATABLE..
You have no such PROOF against God .. Just studies and gatherings of guesses based on incomplete and continuing studies to study more and stamp Theory on it because you have met the standard that YOU have set up yourself…
Your standard of proof is OK with being inconclusive and yet you still wont admit you have faith in Science..
I can admit that I have no Proof for you.. No picture of me and God at the Country Club… No recording of the crucifiction but where is your recording to dismantle my Faith in them???
You own no such physical, conclusive or irrefudable proof!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again in hopes that it may sink in!
YOU HAVE FAITH IN YOUR READING MATERIAL JUST AS DO I…
Even Einstein said the God used a calculated plan.. He may not have been Christian but he could not deny the sign of a designer…
You’re no Einstein my friend and neither am I but there’s an old saying…
The real, recognize REAL!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 5, 2009 at 3:07 am


LOL and you quote scipture too!
What you believe in is an imaaginary combustion that spit out a mathmatical process by chance! This is a revolving contradiction of itself to say the least.
Boris says: What mathematical process? The mass-energy that comprises the universe always existed just in a different form before the Big Bang.
You say that Jesus is the pagan God-Man and that too is a self contradiction…
Boris says: Jesus was modeled after other Pagan dying and resurrecting god-men.
The Messiah came and it is not Pagan just because SOME Jews do not accept him as the Messiah, whose coming was FORTOLD
Boris says: The Jews never heard or wrote one word about Jesus. I’m a Jew and we do not believe that such a person as Jesus Christ ever existed based on the fact that he isn’t mentioned in any Jewish literature anywhere. Stories written to conform to early prophecies hardly foretold anything. People have to be very naive not to know how ancient prophetic literature was written. Ever read Homer?
I do NOT believe that the WORLD has to apply the word of GOD..
GOD allows free will and so do I..
Will I refrain from using my freedom of speach to say what his WAY and Will are.. NO You have the wpr;dly freedom to sin and I have the worldly right to call it such…
Boris says: I have the freedom to ignore the false Christian definition of sin.
Again your references are opinion and YOU have the burden of Proof against God as much as I have the burden of Proof as it (after Thousands of years) is still DEBATABLE..
Boris says: The existence of a God cannot be disproved but the existence of the Christina God has been thoroughly disproved based on the falsified claims of the people who believe in it.
You have no such PROOF against God .. Just studies and gatherings of guesses based on incomplete and continuing studies to study more and stamp Theory on it because you have met the standard that YOU have set up yourself…
Your standard of proof is OK with being inconclusive and yet you still wont admit you have faith in Science..
Boris says: Again, there is a big difference between faith and religious faith. I’m willing to challenge and change what I believe and you are afraid to. The destructive teaching of Christianity is that there are some beliefs above questioning and to do so is sinful.
I can admit that I have no Proof for you.. No picture of me and God at the Country Club… No recording of the crucifiction but where is your recording to dismantle my Faith in them???
You own no such physical, conclusive or irrefudable proof!
Boris says: The lack of proof for the Bible’s outrageous claims proves the Christian God does not exist. We can easily prove there was no six-day creation, no worldwide flood, no slaughter of every first-born child and animal in Egypt, no Davidic dynasty, no Jesus Christ. These facts prove that the Christian God does not exist and there’s not a thing you can do about it. The cat’s out of the bag and Christianity is finished in the age of information.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again in hopes that it may sink in!
YOU HAVE FAITH IN YOUR READING MATERIAL JUST AS DO I…
Boris says: My reading material is written by scientists as the result of experiments and demonstrations. Yours was written by animal sacrificing primitives who sat in their tents and guessed the world was flat, never moved and was only a few generations old. ROFL!
Even Einstein said the God used a calculated plan.. He may not have been Christian but he could not deny the sign of a designer…
You’re no Einstein my friend and neither am I but there’s an old saying…
Boris says: There is no sign of any designer and Einstein said as much. Show me a quote from Einstein that supports your claim.
The real, recognize REAL!
Boris says: And the Christians imagine the imaginary. Leave reality to us atheists. You don’t know the first thing about it because you don’t believe in science. You believe in magic.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted May 5, 2009 at 9:24 pm


I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)
This shows that the world has structure and design and now you back peddle and say
I am not trying to disprove God.. just Jesus..
OK…
So now there was no David so lets throw the star of David out of the window and you must admit that the Davidic writings were OLD TESTAMENT! If Jews did not write about Jesus then what was John?
You do not even believe the Apostles existed because of lack of evidence so then why reference even older writings with LESS proof..
You confuse yourself but not US
I do believe in Science my friend and as a TRUE thinker!
Science is the study of what GOD has done.. AND ONLY A STUDY..
You admit that your faith is in studies… they are inconclusive thus even your doubt in Christianity is just a NON-Belief…
You think you can say something and make it true with your tone… this is not how even your world works!!!
To say that I am AFRAID to have my faith tested or debated makes NO SENSE LOLOL I have been debating you for close to a month now and have answered every rebuttle you have attempted to throw at Christ… you do not scare me nor your doubt because your doubt is see through!
How can you saw Jews never mentioned Jesus if the Messiah was the hope for the Jews…
The pagan religions that ook from the Torah were written WAAAAAAY after the teachings of the SON OF MAN.. As you know the Torah wasn’t even written as it PRE-DATES WRITING…
Don’t forget that these animal sacrificing primitives are YOUR ancestors who BTW were the first to refude the “World is flat THEORY” of SCIENCE by writing that God created a sphere or dome which we know not to be flat!!!
So what of the other “converts” I listed?.. Couldn’t find any defense for them in your tyrant about the age of information you must have been overwhelmed…
You reference to Osiris and Isis as the “starting gate” for the Christian story are laughable.
You reference the simularities but not the differences which are VERY different.. not to mention AGAIN that it was written after the closing of cannon doctrine but that the doctrine existed in spoken teachings LONG before… it’s a stretch my friend!
You said,
Boris says: Again, there is a big difference between faith and religious faith. I’m willing to challenge and change what I believe and you are afraid to. The destructive teaching of Christianity is that there are some beliefs above questioning and to do so is sinful.
Oh Boris!!!
JESUS INSTRUCTED TO TEST ALL THINGS!
Your thinking of some old school Catholics who used the word of God instead of teaching it like many false teachers do! I am allowed to QUESTION ALL THINGS!!!
Nice try though!
You said,
What mathematical process? The mass-energy that comprises the universe always existed just in a different form before the Big Bang.
=0)
Boris… the math in your DNA!!! the math that you say that spawned out of the infinitely dense point that science calls SIBGULARITY even!
Further more friend the Big Bang theory only really attempts to explain the space-time origin and falls shorter when attempting to apply it’s theory to biological existence not to mention the existence of love, romance, regret, communication and the list goes on.. there is clear signs of adaptation but evolution is a belief!
It’s ok if you believe in Science Boris…
You have the right to but you super impose on your own discontent for evangelists when you fight harder to deny them the rights that you are allowed…
YOU HAVE FAITH IN YOURS AS WE HAVE FAITH IN OURS!
Chirst knew you’d be mad about the acceptance of Gentiles but NOT ALL JEWS denied Chrits or share in your reference to the old…



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 6, 2009 at 2:49 am


Witness:
You said: I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)
This shows that the world has structure and design and now you back peddle and say
I am not trying to disprove God.. just Jesus..
Boris says: I’m not back peddling about anything, you are. Einstein said nothing about design. He said structure and Einstein accepted evolution of course, which says that nature structures itself.
You said: OK…So now there was no David so lets throw the star of David out of the window and you must admit that the Davidic writings were OLD TESTAMENT! If Jews did not write about Jesus then what was John?
Boris says: Archaeological data have now definitely confirmed that the empire of David and Solomon never existed.” – Biblical Archaeological Revue 31, no. (January/February 2005): 16-17.”
You said: You do not even believe the Apostles existed because of lack of evidence so then why reference even older writings with LESS proof..
You confuse yourself but not US
Boris says: Whoever frightened you into believing the Bible is who confused you.
You said: I do believe in Science my friend and as a TRUE thinker!
Science is the study of what GOD has done.. AND ONLY A STUDY..
Boris says: Not according to scientists. Science doesn’t consider God at all because there is no evidence for God. Science is the study of nature. If there were any evidence for God then scientists would be the most qualified to tell us this and to study it.
You said: You admit that your faith is in studies… they are inconclusive thus even your doubt in Christianity is just a NON-Belief…
Boris says: Again studies lead to educated guesses not faith.
You said: You think you can say something and make it true with your tone… this is not how even your world works!!!
To say that I am AFRAID to have my faith tested or debated makes NO SENSE LOLOL I have been debating you for close to a month now and have answered every rebuttle you have attempted to throw at Christ… you do not scare me nor your doubt because your doubt is see through!
Boris says: Oh please spare me the drivel. You haven’t been able to refute a thing I’ve said and your posts are increasingly desperate and incoherent. You’ve seen your best arguments demolished you know I’m right. You just can’t bare to lose a debate so badly to an atheist but anyone can see this is what is going on.
You said: How can you saw Jews never mentioned Jesus if the Messiah was the hope for the Jews…
Boris says: That is a very lame response. What kind of evidence do you present that any Jews wrote a word about Jesus or that he was any kind of hope for the Jews? Nothing because there isn’t any. Jesus Christ never existed or t least one Jew would have mentioned him.
You said: The pagan religions that ook from the Torah were written WAAAAAAY after the teachings of the SON OF MAN.. As you know the Torah wasn’t even written as it PRE-DATES WRITING…
Boris says: There is no mention of the Torah before 164 BCE. The Torah took from more ancient pagan writings and there isn’t an honest scholar in the world that will say otherwise. Have you ever actually looked into these things you claim to be an expert on? No, obviously you have not.
You said: Don’t forget that these animal sacrificing primitives are YOUR ancestors who BTW were the first to refude the “World is flat THEORY” of SCIENCE by writing that God created a sphere or dome which we know not to be flat!!!
Boris says: The Bible clearly says the earth is flat and immovable and sits on a foundation supported by pillars. Nowhere does the Bible say the earth moves or is a sphere.
You said: So what of the other “converts” I listed?.. Couldn’t find any defense for them in your tyrant about the age of information you must have been overwhelmed…
Boris says: What five people who were never atheists to begin with? That hardly compares to the average of 5000 Christians a day in the US alone who reject the Christian faith forever.
You said: You reference to Osiris and Isis as the “starting gate” for the Christian story are laughable.
You reference the simularities but not the differences which are VERY different.. not to mention AGAIN that it was written after the closing of cannon doctrine but that the doctrine existed in spoken teachings LONG before… it’s a stretch my friend!
Boris says: I never said anything about any “starting gate.” Of course none of the dying and resurrecting gods were exactly alike. Some were female like Demeter for example. But Jesus is a mythical Pagan dying and resurrecting god-man just like all the others. In that, the most important aspect Jesus is no different
You said: Oh Boris!!!JESUS INSTRUCTED TO TEST ALL THINGS!
Your thinking of some old school Catholics who used the word of God instead of teaching it like many false teachers do! I am allowed to QUESTION ALL THINGS!!!
Nice try though!
Boris says: You’ve completely missed the point. It’s JESUS and the Bible that you are afraid to question. You are afraid to doubt whether Jesus actually existed. Therefore you are afraid to QUESTION ALL THINGS!!! Not a good try even!
You said: Boris… the math in your DNA!!! the math that you say that spawned out of the infinitely dense point that science calls SIBGULARITY even!
Further more friend the Big Bang theory only really attempts to explain the space-time origin and falls shorter when attempting to apply it’s theory to biological existence not to mention the existence of love, romance, regret, communication and the list goes on.. there is clear signs of adaptation but evolution is a belief!
Boris says: Your creationist cult leaders have blurred the lines between the different disciplines of science so you don’t know one from the other. Cosmology has nothing to do with evolution and biological evolution happens to be the only explanation there is for the existence of love, romance, regret, communication and the list goes on. Try reading what scientists have to say about these things and you might learn something about the real world. Oh that’s right you hate the world and anyone who doesn’t believe what you do is a liar. Because the Bible tells you so. The complexity of DNA is the result of 4 billion years of cellular evolution and its bottom-up design. See we can tell the difference between top-down and bottom-up design now. Mount Rushmore is bottom-up design and the carvings top-down design. See?
You said: It’s ok if you believe in Science Boris…
You have the right to but you super impose on your own discontent for evangelists when you fight harder to deny them the rights that you are allowed…
Boris says: I’m not denying anyone rights. I’m just not allowing people to demand respect for insane childish superstitions by labeling them “religious beliefs.” If you believe in magical explanations for things we already have good scientific explanations for then you should be publicly mocked, ridiculed and poked fun at so our young people see how ludicrous your claims are and humiliating they are to ascribe to and won’t be foolish enough to adopt them.
You said: YOU HAVE FAITH IN YOURS AS WE HAVE FAITH IN OURS!
Boris says: Again educated guesses are not faith.
You said: Chirst knew you’d be mad about the acceptance of Gentiles but NOT ALL JEWS denied Chrits or share in your reference to the old…
Boris says: The Jews never knew about and Jesus to deny and they still don’t. Jesus Christ the Jew simply never existed.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted May 6, 2009 at 4:05 pm


I want you to read your words carefully and before you reate more in your head understand what you are saying…
You are saying that Jesus SIMPLY never existed
and due to lack of proof and I wan’t there and hae no concrete physical proof like pictures etc.
THEN
You say something like
The complexity of DNA is the result of 4 billion years of cellular evolution
LOL
Where is your proof… Is it in your GUESS?
Regardless if it is an educated guess it is still
A GUESS!!!
You said,
You’ve completely missed the point. It’s JESUS and the Bible that you are afraid to question. You are afraid to doubt whether Jesus actually existed. Therefore you are afraid to QUESTION ALL THINGS!!! Not a good try even!
When infact I hit the point right on the head because I was responding to when…
You said,
The destructive teaching of Christianity is that there are some beliefs above questioning and to do so is sinful.
And now youve changed your position on that as well!
So now it is not that it is sinful to question… it is now that I am too closed minded to challenge my studies and beliefs…
No one brain washed me my friend and no one brainwashed you either..
I have faith in mine and yes even believing an educated guess my friend requires faith
THE ONLY THING THAT DOESNT REQUIRE FAITH IS A FACT!
I believe my writtings the Bible and you believe in yours, Biblical Archaeological Revue 31, no. (January/February 2005): 16-17.”
I believe based on the consitency of the word of God.. the irrefudable signs in nature that Science has yet to conclude
The love and admiration inside that I do not believe is an evolution an INFINITELY DENSE POINT!!!
And you believe in negativity that people who sincerely believe something should be ridiculed, mocked and poked fun at but then call Jesus a Monster because that is what you believe he does to sincere non belivers of him..
As I have said before you are merely an argue-er and go against your own stance so easily and so quickly.. your position has no foundation of it’s own so it is all over the place!
The anger that you are harboring for people who believe in a loving Savior is it’s own testament!
You said,
Mount Rushmore is bottom-up design and the carvings top-down design. See?
LOL what a lame explination of Earthly, Human and Non-tangiable existence! C’mon you bought that as your infulstructure??? Moutn Rushmore?
Mount Rushmore is a large rock that some people banged steal against to present the likeness of people that already existed!
There is no further complexity to the stoned-statue and you would have us compare it to DNA, Emotion, The Cosmos, Gravity, Oxygen-Carbon trasfers between us and plants, Opinion, Truth, Structure, Math and everything that existence is???
You are being so blind my friend!
You have eyes but refuse to see beyond man’s own understanding…
Can’t you see that Science is further invested in upon it’s discoveries??
Have you tested these theories or merely accepted them…
So then who is brain washed here???
You call it good enough evidence as oppsed to magic…
If someone elses tests and theories are good enough for you then good for you but don’t mock or poke fun at me for the same thing…
Prove to me Jesus never existed, simply!



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted May 6, 2009 at 4:12 pm


Oh and Boris…
Can your proof be something other than writings that pre-date us, theories, inconclusive studies and hear-say?
Thanks!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 7, 2009 at 1:15 am


Witness
You said: Prove to me Jesus never existed, simply!
Boris says: Visit Jesusneverexisted.com and you’ll see what Christian hoaxers have passed off as evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted May 7, 2009 at 12:36 pm


Boris,
I am not asking you to refude our Proof for Jesus!
I am asking you to provide your Proof that he never existed!
Is your only proof a rebuttle? Your rebuttle is opinon so it IS NOT PROOF!
Prove to me the Jesus never existed, simply!
With PROOF!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 7, 2009 at 3:32 pm


Your Name,
The burden of proof is never on the person denying a positive claim. You are committing a typical Christian logical fallacy called shifting the burden of proof. Let’s see your contemporary historical evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed and then I will refute that thereby disproving YOUR claims.
We are expected to believe that Jesus was entirely ignored by all secular writers at the time that he supposedly lived even though:
Special star appears to signal his birth (Matt 2:2).
Massacre of infants in attempt to kill him (Matt 2:16).
Goes about ‘healing every disease and every infirmity’ (Matt 4:23).
Fame spreads throughout all Syria so ‘all the sick’ are brought to him – who are then healed by him (Matt 4:24).
Followed by ‘crowds’ (Matt 5:1).
‘Great crowds’ follow him (Matt 8:1).
Heals leper (Matt 8:3).
Heals paralysed servant (Matt 8:13).
Heals Peter’s mother-in-law (Matt 8:15).
‘Many’ afflicted brought to him: he heals ‘all who were sick’ (Matt 8:16).
Great crowds follow him (Matt 8;18).
Heals demoniacs and kills some pigs (Matt 8:32).
Heals paralytic (Matt 9:7).
Crowds witness healing (Matt 9:8).
A ruler comes to him for help with daughter (Matt 9:18).
Heals woman with hemorrhage (Matt 9:22).
Heals ruler’s daughter (Matt 9:25).
‘Report of this went through all that district’ (Matt 9:26).
Heals two blind men (Matt 9:30).
They ‘spread his fame through all that district’ (Matt 9:31).
Heals dumb demoniac (Matt 9:33).
Crowds marvel (Matt 9:33).
Heals ‘every disease and every infirmity’ as he travels about cities and villages (Matt 9:35).
Followed by crowds (Matt 9:36).
Preaches in cities (Matt 11:1).
Speaks to crowds (Matt 11:7).
Heals man with withered hand (Matt 12:13).
Many follow him and ‘he heals them all’ (Matt 12:15).
Heals blind and dumb demoniac (Matt 12:22).
‘Great crowds gather’ around him (Matt 13:2).
Speaks to the crowds (Matt 13:34).
Herod hears about Jesus’ fame (Matt 14:1).
Crowds follow him, he heals the sick, and feeds 5000+ (Matt 14:13).
On entering Gennesaret, he is recognized and all the sick are brought to him and all those who touch him are healed (Matt 14:36).
Great crowds come to him with the sick and they are healed (Matt 15:30).
‘The thong’ see ‘the dumb speaking, the maimed whole, the lame walking and the blind seeing’ (Matt 15:31). Feeds 4000+. Crowds are sent away (Matt 15:38).
Meets crowd and heals epileptic (Matt 17:14,18).
Large crowds follow him in Judea and he heals them (Matt 19:2).
Great crowd follows him on leaving Jericho (Matt 20:29).
Heals two blind men (Matt 20:34).
Ejects Temple traders (Matt 21:12).
Heals blind and lame (Matt 21:14).
People call for his execution (Matt 27:23).
All the people admit responsibility (Matt 27:25).
Darkness ‘over all the land’ (Matt 27:45).
Temple curtain torn and earthquake (Matt 27:51).
Saints came out of their tombs and appear in Jerusalem (Matt 27:52-53).
Resurrected from dead (Matt 28:1ff).
It is of course too absurd for words for any rational person to suggest that anyone who was involved in all of this (and the above is only from Matthew – John has further miracles), and in just three years (John) or one year (Synoptics), could go unnoticed by all the secular writers of the time, and indeed anyone capable of writing. – Mark Smith
The Bible says the graves opened up and dead people climbed out of them and appeared to many. Now this event never happened and if this story isn’t true then there is no reason to believe anything else the Bible claims either. The reason you believe these insane and untrue stories is because you have been convinced by OTHER PEOPLE that if you don’t believe them you will wind up in hell and be tortured for all eternity. Now when you mind is operating under that kind of fear induced superstition it is really ludicrous for you to claim you can still make an objective decision about the Bible or anything else for that matter.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted May 9, 2009 at 5:41 am


Your claim would be stronger if we ourselves did not witness the disappearance of many historical events fromm the text books across the world!!! Slavery to say the least..
You are so off see,
WE’ve been over this Boris,
I have made it clear that I have a faith. I have an understanding based on my belief of the ACTUAL choices at hand and information that I have learned and trust…
You echo the bold statements like
YOU SHOULD BE MOCKED
JESUS SIMPLY NEVER EXISTED
These are conclusive statements posed as fact.
Put your money where you mouth is then bro!
PROVE IT…
Now lets be clear I am sure of what I know and based on one of the very things that cannot be explained by your mineralistic, germ-animal-evolution theory…
Coincidence… Experience- application of learning by experience and achieving understanding thus creating the difference between ignorant and wise…
tho you would have there be no such thing as truth or false you would have it to be relative to the prescriber of each individual choice between circumstance and allow for descriptions to be interprated beyond their true meaning.. we KNOW there are LAWS
Law of gravity, laws of nature and yet and still Science is merely begining to understand the wonders of nature
I just want you to answer this and this alone…
What makes your reading material (in which you had no first hand participation) more relevant than my reading material that BY THE WAY..
You say if people walked out of tooms don’t you think people would hear about it…
LOL
YOU BROUGHT IT UP!!!
YOU HEARD ABOUT IT!!!
And yet this is impossible but a molecular or gastric combustion from the void pointe of nothing and no where creating an existence full of mechanics and laws and cycles… thats not rediculous at all huh?
Answer me this and only rhis…
What makes your reading material so special?



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted May 12, 2009 at 5:21 am


Boris,
You seem to have a great knowledge of something you appear to deplore and derive pleasure from discrediting those that do not go along with your beliefs. I have spot read this post so if I am repeating what has already been said I apologize for wasting your time.
Most ancient civilizations had their own god and the ruler was the representative of that deity. A conquered nation would normally accept the deity of the conquering nation. In the Bible the Creator of the world chose Israel as His special people, to be set apart. Israel conquered many nations, but instead of those nations accepting the God of Israel, Israel started worshipping the conquered nation’s deities. After a time Israel split into two kingdoms with one being conquered removed from their land and assimilated into the conquering nation. The other kingdom, Judah, was also conquered and many of its people carried off to the conquering nation, but they never fully assimilated into the conquering nation and later were allowed to return. This returning people were eventually referred to as the Jew.
Another period of time passes and along comes the Teacher and Healer who died and was resurrected, Jesus Christ. The references of this Man in the writings of historians of the time are considered by some to have been entered after the fact, but nobody questions the existence of Buddha, Confucius, or Mohamed. The curious thing here is that no one of time discredited the teachings of this sect of followers of Jesus Christ, whose following grew even while being persecuted.
The Jewish nation was again destroyed and the people dispersed. Once again they did not fully assimilate, maintaining their heritage thru many generations and eventually returned to the land given to them by the Creator in the Bible. Now if the Bible is just a fairy tale why is this chosen people, small in number, in a land tiny in size, with few natural resources the most hated people in the modern world. This fact gives me pause to concider.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted May 13, 2009 at 11:58 pm


AMEN!!!
there are far deeper things to be considered in the life than discrediting eachothers artifacts.
We have come to accept history and we as human beings can discern accordingly…
Things are happening before our eyes and over our heads and if you cant even grasp the concept of design while looking through your eyes out at the the world and the things therin…!?!?!?!
Your name: May 12, 2009…
You came beautifully!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 14, 2009 at 11:58 am


Your Name,
The nations of Israel and Judah described in the Bible are fairy tale kingdoms that along with their mythical kings never even existed. There was no David, no Solomon, none of the other forty kings or their temple ever exited. Israel never conquered anyone and I can tell you as a Jew myself the majority of Jews in ancient Palestine did not believe in Yahweh. Instead they worshiped a female deity by the name of Asherah. You Christians who think the Bible is a history book are as badly misinformed by your lying cult leaders as you could possible be.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 14, 2009 at 12:09 pm


Your Name,
What makes YOUR reading material so special? Man-made rumors that a man-made socially constructed document is the Word of God.? My reading material that proves the Bible is a hokey bunch of religious lies and nonsense is the Bible itself. No other literature is necessary to prove the Bible is nonsense.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted May 16, 2009 at 5:08 pm


makes no sense by your own standard of proof Boris!!!
You are clearly professing a non belief on your own accord in regards to what YOU read…
therefore it is … YOUR OPINION!
Jesus was real.. it is history and lucifer is real and busy!!!
watch this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFHc5MEC0MI



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 17, 2009 at 2:35 pm


Witness you can claim Jesus is mentioned in history all you want. But you have not a shred of evidence to back up this claim. Outside of the Bible you’ve got nothing and the reason I don’t believe the Bible is because it refutes its own claims thereby disproving its own claims. Plus no historical narratives contain word for word dialog only fictive narratives.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted May 18, 2009 at 4:38 pm


Boris
you yourself admit to “24 secular” references to Jesus but said then it was not enough and now you say there are none…
You are a man who is satisfied by interpretations and inconclusive studies..
You have no right to contend ANYONE for what they believe let alone your Messiah.



report abuse
 

Weldon

posted May 18, 2009 at 7:36 pm


This post started off as a challenge of proof that the US constitution was being usurped to usher in one world governance and has diverged into a discussion of evolution-atheism verses creation- belief in not just any god but the God of the bible. Neither position can be proven beyond all doubt. Both take an aspect of faith to accept. One difference is that creationists say that faith/belief is needed, where evolutionists say it is science and should be accepted on those grounds.
Biology, a science, states that spontaneous generation cannot happen, which means that something that is none- living cannot produce life. With this being the case, how can none living carbon and enzymes produce life, which is one evolutionary theory of how life began?
It is stated that there are gaps in the fossil record. Are these gaps filled by faith? Faith is what Bible believers use to accept that Israel and Judah existed before 6 B.C.
faith
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
Ben Stein did a movie called “Expelled”. In it he explored how some scientists, renowned in their field, where ostracized for hinting at the possibility of intelligent design. Does this sound like the science community is open to further discovery of our origin? Toward the end of the movie he queried two evolutionary scientists as to how it all began, one said aliens and the other said crystals. These are the very people who denounce the possibility of intelligent design.
With the element of faith in both view points why is one allowed to be taught as fact in our state run schools and the other is excluded on the premise of being a fictional belief or a religion? Religion is a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted May 20, 2009 at 4:40 pm


The problem here is not only that Boris and his like minded peers state their theories as fact but that they condem any opposition but then call Christians Monsters because we are not open minded enough for them…
My attempt in this debate was to push Boris to his last spin…
If you take a close read at his posts you will see that he does not even hold the same proof that he requires of others.
There was even a point where he became so frustrated that he said he would spit in Jesus’ face for sending his ancestors to hell…
This is a very childish approach to human conversation or debate…
You’d think that if a grown man had a serious question or serious proof against something that he wouldn’t have to be so threatened by what others believe however, his own belief is very weak and so we pray for him that he may shed his pride and stuborn resentment and stop taking and using words to confuse himself and in the nicest way I can possibly put this.. we pray you shut up and listen.. pay attention to the real world around you you foolish neieve american… You have no idea what is happening right under your nose and your beef is a philisophical one?
Grow up Boris…
You don’t have to admit your error to me…
I am not interested in your conversion.. merely your honest repentance to your Father!
Despite the horrible things you said and may continue to say.. you can still be forgiven!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 21, 2009 at 2:34 am


Weldon evolution is taught in every CHRISTIAN college and university in the world with a science department, not just in state run schools. The Christian academic community has not only rejected creationism and Intelligent Design. they have scientifically refuted these religious hoaxes of their own volition and continue to distance themselves from them. In no other nation in the world do we have creationists trying to force their religious dogma and nonsense into public school science classes. Only in the United States of Bubbadom does there exist such ignorance.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 21, 2009 at 2:40 am


Your Name
Being told to grow up by someone who believes in angels, demons, seraphs, Satan and all the rest of the childish supernatural nonsense you do is just rich. You are the one who is frustrated here because you are a failure as an evangelist having once again failed to convince anyone of anything. Do you Christers ever wonder why you’ve never been able to convince anyone but small children to believe in your lies and nonsense?



report abuse
 

Wayne

posted May 21, 2009 at 9:35 am


“Do you Christers ever wonder why you’ve never been able to convince anyone but small children to believe in your lies and nonsense?”
Proof please



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 21, 2009 at 3:21 pm


Wayne
Proof you shall have:
Celsus quotes some objections against the doctrine of Jesus, made by a very few individuals who are considered Christians, not of the more intelligent, as he supposes, but of the more ignorant class, and asserts that “the following are the rules laid down by them. Let no one come to us who has been instructed, or who is wise or prudent (for such qualifications are deemed evil by us); but if there be any ignorant, or unintelligent, or uninstructed, or foolish persons, let them come with confidence. By which words, acknowledging that such individuals are worthy of their God, they manifestly show that they desire and are able to gain over only the silly, and the mean, and the stupid, with women and children.”…
Chap. 55
But as Celsus delights to heap up calumnies against us, and, in addition to those which he has already uttered, has added others, let us examine these also, and see whether it be the Christians or Celsus who have reason to be ashamed of what is said. He asserts, “We see, indeed, in private houses workers in wool and leather, and fullers, and persons of the most uninstructed and rustic character, not venturing to utter a word in the presence of their elders and wiser masters; but when they get hold of the children privately, and certain women as ignorant as themselves, they pour forth wonderful statements, to the effect that they ought not to give heed to their father and to their teachers, but should obey them; that the former are foolish and stupid, and neither know nor can perform anything that is really good, being preoccupied with empty trifles; that they alone know how men ought to live, and that, if the children obey them, they will both be happy themselves, and will make their home happy also. And while thus speaking, if they see one of the instructors of youth approaching, or one of the more intelligent class, or even the father himself, the more timid among them become afraid, while the more forward incite the children to throw off the yoke, whispering that in the presence of father and teachers they neither will nor can explain to them any good thing, seeing they turn away with aversion from the silliness and stupidity of such persons as being altogether corrupt, and far advanced in wickedness, and such as would inflict punishment upon them; but that if they wish (to avail themselves of their aid,) they must leave their father and their instructors, and go with the women and their playfellows to the women’s apartments, or to the leather shop, or to the fuller’s shop, that they may attain to perfection;–and by words like these they gain them over.



report abuse
 

Weldon

posted May 22, 2009 at 11:47 am


Boris,
The Christian collages teaching evolution is no proof. The science community rejects anything other than evolution so they must teach it to be accepted.
As I said before scientists who have hinted at intelligent design have been ostracized by the science community. You completely ignore that biologist state that spontaneous generation cannot happen, which means that something that is none- living cannot produce life. You accept the gaps in the fossil record on faith as being there, but you belittle faith in God because you say there is no proof. You state Christers can only convince small children to believe, but evolutionist will not let the weaknesses of their theory to be taught to young adults.
You state that the kingdom of Judah never existed and there were no Jews before the 8th century BC, yet the great scroll of Isaiah, which is the entire book of Isaiah as we have it today, has been carbon dated once between 335-324 BC and again between 202-107 BC. Paleographic and scribal dating studies conducted that place it at a date range of approximately 150-100 BC. What proof do you have there where Jews in ancient Palestine that worshiped asherah.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 23, 2009 at 3:28 am


The Christian collages teaching evolution is no proof. The science community rejects anything other than evolution so they must teach it to be accepted.
Boris says: That’s because there are no competing scientific theories to teach. Intelligent Design posits supernatural explanations which are not considered by science because they cannot be tested and subjected to proofs of falsification not to mention the fact there isn’t any evidence for the supernatural.
As I said before scientists who have hinted at intelligent design have been ostracized by the science community. You completely ignore that biologist state that spontaneous generation cannot happen, which means that something that is none- living cannot produce life.
Boris says: Name a biologist who made that claim beside Michael Behe. Biologists say just the opposite – that life must have come from non-life but the theory of evolution has nothing to do with that. It only explains how life diversified after self-replicating RNA became organic matter.
You accept the gaps in the fossil record on faith as being there, but you belittle faith in God because you say there is no proof. You state Christers can only convince small children to believe, but evolutionist will not let the weaknesses of their theory to be taught to young adults.
Answer: Are there carrier pigeons? We know there are carrier pigeons because we can see them and people have reported on them in the past. But should they become extinct without these visual and written records of the existence of carrier pigeons we would have no way of knowing they ever existed. They would be a “gap” in the fossil record. Do you know why? Of course not. Because like many animals carrier pigeons do not fossilize under any conditions. Most other animals don’t fossilize at all but under certain conditions. Open a grave from a few centuries ago and you’ll find dust. This is why there are supposed gaps in the fossil record.
You state that the kingdom of Judah never existed and there were no Jews before the 8th century BC, yet the great scroll of Isaiah, which is the entire book of Isaiah as we have it today, has been carbon dated once between 335-324 BC and again between 202-107 BC. Paleographic and scribal dating studies conducted that place it at a date range of approximately 150-100 BC.
Boris says: Even if what you said were true that’s several centuries removed from the 8th century when the book was supposed to have been written. This proves that the prophecies and the events that supposedly fulfilled them were written well after the fact.
What proof do you have there where Jews in ancient Palestine that worshiped asherah.
Boris says: Uh, the Bible, where she’s sometimes referred to as a grove in the KJV or a sacred pole in other translations but in the Hebrew Mrs. God is mentioned about 40 times. There are plenty of ancient carvings of this deity. When the Hebrews captured the temple in 164 BCE is the first time anyone saw the Ten Commandments. The people wanted to know if their ancestors had worshiped Yahweh as the priests were trying to convince them they had why they had carvings of Asherah and none of Yahweh. This is why a commandment was invented to prohibit the making of images of any gods.



report abuse
 

NH

posted May 24, 2009 at 9:03 am


These quotes are enough for me… Obama is the next Hitler and we all have this to fear.
“In the struggle to establish an adequate world government, the teacher has many parts to play… He can do much to prepare the hearts and minds of children for global understanding and cooperation… At the very top of all the agencies which will assure the coming of world government must stand the school, the teacher, and the organized profession.” — National Education Association Journal, 1946
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”
– David Rockefeller… Baden-Baden, Germany 1991



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 24, 2009 at 3:57 pm


NH, nah Hitler was a TRUE Christian unlike Obama.
“National Socialism is not a cult-movement– a movement for worship; it is exclusively a ‘volkic’ political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship… We will not allow mystically- minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else– in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will– not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord… Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men.” -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept.1938. [Christians have always accused Hitler of believing in pagan cult mythology. What is written here clearly expresses his stand against cults.]
“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]
Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.” –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
“Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition.” -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is quite obvious here that Hitler is referring to destructing the Judaism alters on which Christianity was founded.)
“The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.” -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the Jew came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this “tradition” up until the 20th century.)
“With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people.” -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is common in war for one race to rape another so that they can “defile” the race and assimilate their own. Hitler speaks about this very tactic here.)
“The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present- day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties– and this against their own nation.”–Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
“…the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion.” -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (See Genesis Chapter 3 where humankind is cast from Eden for their sins. Hitler compares this to the need to exterminate the Jews for their sin against Christ.)
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
“The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (This quote is very interesting for it disperses the idea that Hitler raged war due to being an Aryan supremacist. He states quite clearly that he has a problem with Jews for their belief not race. That is why many German Jews died in WW2 regardless of their Aryan nationality.)
“Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (Here Hitler is admitting that his war against the Jews were so successful because of his strong Christian Spirituality.) – Evilbible.com



report abuse
 

Weldon

posted May 24, 2009 at 10:32 pm


Boris says: Name a biologist who made that claim beside Michael Behe. Biologists say just the opposite – that life must have come from non-life but the theory of evolution has nothing to do with that. It only explains how life diversified after self-replicating RNA became organic matter.
.
It was not by Michael Behe.
Quoting the following book with my comments in parenthesis.
“Integrated Principles of Zoology” thirteenth edition, by Cleveland P. Hickman, Larry S. Roberts, Alan Larson, Helen I’Anson, and David L. Eisenhour”
Chapter 1- Life: Biological Principles and the Science of Zoology, pg 6 item 3, “ Reproduction. Living systems can reproduce themselves. Life does not arise spontaneously but comes only from prior life through reproduction. Although life certainly originated from nonliving matter at least once ( contradiction of previous statement ), this origin featured enormously long periods of time and conditions very different from the current biosphere ( not a world that can be proven to ever have existed ). At each level of the biological hierarchy, living forms reproduce to generate others like themselves, (one living form can not reproduce a totally different living form).”
Boris says: When do scientists ever ask us to have faith in their findings?
Quoted from above: Life does not arise spontaneously but comes only from prior life through reproduction, although life certainly originated from nonliving matter at least once.
Is this a statement of faith?
Boris says: I don’t believe in magical explanations for things when rational ones are present and make much more sense.
Quoted from above: This origin featured enormously long periods of time and conditions very different from the current biosphere.
This biosphere which can not be proven to have ever existed makes more sense?
Again, is this a statement of faith?
Boris says: There is a very big difference between faith and religious faith.
Faith
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
By definition there is no differentiation between faith and religious faith.
Religion
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons
This implies that belief in evolution is a religion, and because of separation of church and state should not be taught in our schools. Before you argue that you do not belong to a church remember your studies of Greek. The word church is a made up word never appearing in the original text. The word is Ekklesia, includes the meaning: those who anywhere are united into one body. Sounds like the science community.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 26, 2009 at 2:42 am


Weldon,
If evolution was really a religion then why does every CHRISTIAN college and university in the world with a science department teach evolution, common descent and all the rest of the science you don’t believe in? There is no such thing as biology that isn’t evolutionary biology and evolution is taught in every public school system in the world. Weldon you hate science and fear advancing science -ALL of it, cosmology, geology, zoology, anthropology, paleontology, cell, theory, quantum physics, astronomy… all of it. Just come out of your science hating – magic believing closet and stop hiding behind just evolution.
This argument has become increasingly popular in recent years as creationists have tried to bolster their own position by decorating it with scientific-sounding words like intelligent design. And as they try to convince us that their own position is science based, they correspondingly mock evolution by calling it a religion of those who worship Darwin as a prophet and accept its tenets on faith since there is no evidence supporting evolution. Clearly this is an argument that could only be persuasive to people who know little or nothing about the concept of evolution or Darwin’s role in its development. This argument is easily dismissed. A religion is the worship of a supernatural divine super being, and there is nothing anywhere in the theory of evolution that makes reference to such a being, and not a single living human considers himself a member of any “evolution church.” – Brian Dunning



report abuse
 

Weldon

posted May 26, 2009 at 8:50 pm


Wow, I must have struck a nerve; you have gone from open debate to verbal insult.
The argument of every Christian college teaching evolution still is no proof other than the closed mindedness of the evolutionists. Do not forget that any scientist no matter how notable who has hinted at ID has been ostracized by the science community and even Christian colleges who need to be self supporting, must ensure their teachings are acceptable by the evolutionary/science community or students would not enroll in their programs, without students no program.
Let’s take religion out of the equation. Evolutionary adaptation of a species to its environment does not answer how life started; it explains changes within a species group. Alfred R. Wallace the independent co-discoverer of the theory of evolution by natural selection; concluded that it was possible to detect design in nature. Without design there is not order without order there is only chaos and where there is chaos life does not exist for long.
In the movie “Expelled” by Ben Stein, one scientist when pressed for the answer of how it all started referenced aliens. This statement infers design and hints at intelligence, but begs the question where did the aliens come from, how did they begin, where is the proof they even existed, and what happened to them. Another scientist stated it all began with crystals; that puts us back to non-living generating living. Quoted in an earlier post from a Zoology text book, “Living systems can reproduce themselves. Life does not arise spontaneously but comes only from prior life through reproduction.”
If evolution is the undisputed origin of life why are evolutionary scientists opposed to teaching the weaknesses of their theory?



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 27, 2009 at 1:12 am


Weldon,
The Theory of Evolution only explains how life diversified after it began. It is based on observable facts. What you are talking about is abiogenesis, which is not a theory. There are several plausible hypotheses as to how life began but no one knows for sure yet. So nothing can be taught about that except the various possibilities none of which include magic and magical fairies. Those kinds of explanations are not scientific because science is the study of nature not supernatural mysticism.
“…of course, the real reason why science does not admit supernatural hypotheses is because they can’t be subjected to scientific observation, experimentation, and falsification. The business of science is to try and explain things through naturalistic processes, because that’s the only objective method we humans have of independently verifying how the world works. With a supernatural solution, not only is there no means to explain things, there’s no point in explaining anything at all. If science does go beyond the bounds of natural phenomena, it stops being science and becomes metaphysics or theology. Nevertheless, creationists feel victimized and offended by what they see as a deliberate, mistaken, and unjust snubbing of the supernatural by science. – Joyce Arthur



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted May 27, 2009 at 11:52 am


If it is based on observable facts then why doe sno one know for sure yet.. Facts are conclusive…. and lead to other facts..
You and your peers call THEORIES facts and say that they are a group of facts when they are merely a group of studies that end up with still an inconclusive result.. You make no sense!
You say you are sure of what did not happen… it’s not surety it’s your opinion and the longer you own your opinion as fact the longer you will miss the obvious crys from nature that scream design!
So because science can put the power of God into a beaker and analyze it.. it doesnt count???
You call yourselves the thinkers but really youre just self promoting hypocrites who require less proof from your own position then you require of those who are admitting to the obvious..
That we breath in what trees breath out.. that DNA is more complex than computer chips and the human eye more complex than any device ever hand crafted by man though from these examples you clearly see science and technology attempting to recreate the attributes of natural phenomena… they havent quite got it yet..
Boris take a long look in the mirror and when you stare into that galumphy image of yourself and see your physicality blend with your mental state and stand there in front of what is two things in one.. ask yourself…
What do I know?
I’ll answer…
NOTHING!!! You know NOTHING! only what youve repreated of others
What have you analyzed?
I’ll answer…
NOTHING!!! You’ve partaken in no diagnostics of anything you speak of
Be slow to speak from this point on Boris…
If it didn’t count against you before when you had what you thought was ammunition ..
Imagine now that you have not one arguement left!
God loves you and died for your fallen flesh!
You may join us in eternal life by doing ONE THING!
Admit the error of your ways!
Repent!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 27, 2009 at 10:59 pm


Witness,
Give up.
If it is based on observable facts then why doe sno one know for sure yet.. Facts are conclusive…. and lead to other facts..
Boris says: Wrong. Scientific method requires that no finding is conclusive and is always subject to future revision.
You and your peers call THEORIES facts and say that they are a group of facts when they are merely a group of studies that end up with still an inconclusive result.. You make no sense!
Boris says: That’s right. Keep trying to convince your self science and scientists make no sense and a book full of absurd fairy tales does.
You say you are sure of what did not happen… it’s not surety it’s your opinion and the longer you own your opinion as fact the longer you will miss the obvious crys from nature that scream design!
Boris says: No not at all. It’s just that we recognize the difference between Nature’s method of bottom-up design, from simple to complex over time and human top-down design that we find in say pocket watches. You imagine a human like intelligence using human top-down design to create life. But science points away from this type of top-down design when it comes to the complexity of life.
So because science can put the power of God into a beaker and analyze it.. it doesnt count???
Boris says: Suppose science did point to a creator. You’d still have a long way to go to prove it was the Bible God and not some other God.
You call yourselves the thinkers but really youre just self promoting hypocrites who require less proof from your own position then you require of those who are admitting to the obvious..
Boris says: Just admitting to what you think is obvious proves nothing. If you had any evidence for your beliefs we’d never hear the end of it and if it was any good we’d all convert. Ever stop to think about that?
That we breath in what trees breath out.. that DNA is more complex than computer chips and the human eye more complex than any device ever hand crafted by man though from these examples you clearly see science and technology attempting to recreate the attributes of natural phenomena… they havent quite got it yet..
Boris says: You are describing how species adapt to their environment, which of course is predicted by evolutionary theory. What does creationism predict or what could it be used for scientifically may I ask? Making a woman from a rib perhaps?
Boris take a long look in the mirror and when you stare into that galumphy image of yourself and see your physicality blend with your mental state and stand there in front of what is two things in one.. ask yourself…
Boris says: I’ll ask you to prove that a mind could even arise without ‘galumphy image’ of matter existing first. Can you do that for me?
What do I know? I’ll answer…NOTHING!!! You know NOTHING! only what youve repreated of others What have you analyzed? I’ll answer… NOTHING!!! You’ve partaken in no diagnostics of anything you speak of
Boris says: Nonsense. I went to school and paid attention most of the time. I know a little and I can guess the rest.
Be slow to speak from this point on Boris…If it didn’t count against you before when you had what you thought was ammunition .. Imagine now that you have not one arguement left!
Boris says: That’s just too big of a stretch of my imagination since I have evidence on my side I don’t need arguments, which is all you have. I shouldn’t have to point out that arguments are NOT evidence and your arguments are ridiculous.
God loves you and died for your fallen flesh!
You may join us in eternal life by doing ONE THING! Admit the error of your ways!
Repent!
Boris says: It never fails. When the Christian sees all their arguments shot down they invariably resort to the veiled or outright threat of eternal punishment for not buying into their dogma and nonsense.



report abuse
 

Weldon

posted May 28, 2009 at 10:25 pm


Joyce Authur’s comment “ With a supernatural solution, not only is there no means to explain things, there is no point to explain anything at all” is a defeatist statement, because supernatural solutions only answers origin not diversification after the beginning. This statement also shows a prejudice against supernatural solutions suggesting if supernatural solution is found she would lose her purpose, which totally discounts that there would still be discovery.
When I was in school evolution taught that all life started from a one celled amoeba that was formed in the primordial goo and all life branched from there. We were given colorful charts and diagrams with pictures of different creatures and lines drawn showing an interconnection between all these creatures without telling how one species changed and became a completely different species. This is what people think of when you speak of evolution.
Everything in the natural world runs in cycles. We have day, month, and year; each a completion of a lunar or solar cycle. Where does a week fit, is this just a modern day observance or was it observed in ancient times? There is the cycle of seasons, the cycle of life, and many other observable cycles. Is there a cycle in evolution?
What happened that set man apart? No other creature is concerned with its past or future the way man is. No other creature seeks to immortalize themselves. No other creature contemplates the meaning of life or needs a purpose to be contented. No other creature looks for an explanation for its existence.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 29, 2009 at 2:26 am


Weldon,
“You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion… Dogs do not ritually urinate in the hope of persuading heaven to do the same and send down rain. Asses do not bray a liturgy to cloudless skies. Nor do cats attempt, by abstinence from cat’s meat, to wheedle the feline spirits into benevolence. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay fro being intelligent but not, as yet, quite intelligent enough.” – Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)
Stop bashing evolution. You don’t believe in any science because all science debunks your retarded holy book, the Buybull. You don’t believe in cosmology, geology, anthropology, zoology, paleontology, cell theory, quantum physics, astronomy or any other science either. You should just admit you hate science and fear advancing science because it has destroyed your religion and proved your beliefs to be false and absurd.
BTW there is not one shred of evidence for any supernatural occurrences realm, beings, afterlife or anything else. It’s all a bunch of childish nonsense.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted May 29, 2009 at 2:35 am


Weldon,
You must have been absent from your science class the day they explained
“What happened that set man apart?” Our ancestors ate meat which made them evolve differently than the other 4 ape species man is related to. Oh yes humans are a species of ape. Bonobo, Gorilla, Orangutan, Chimpanzee and Human are the five species of apes. We still have a primitive transitional species among is though known as Creationopithecus Alabamus.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted July 25, 2009 at 1:44 am


Boris, again you stand with a notion that can not and has not been proven and not for lack of attempts but for lack of order and relation to reality ..
Adaptation is the truest form of what you believe… look it up.
My only thing at this point my friend, since you’ve made it clear that this is your unwaveble understanding of Christians…
I must point out that you call them rediculous for believing in a notion bent on belief and yet you state
(“Our ancestors ate meat which made them evolve differently than the other 4 ape species man is related to”)
as tho it were hard-core stone-cold fact…
Let al with eyes see this notion…
This notion that Christians are rediculous for believing the great things Jesus said that are still used to this day.. a Man so great that we are debating Him thousands of years after His death.. that we believe this man to be God on Earth..
That the great being we call God came down to Earth as STATED He would in the Torah.. The Old Testament… that NOW this notion is rediculous because we believe it to have come to pass..?
AND
Your Ape notion is not rediculous?
I’m just sayin’
Pot calling the kettle black here or what?
It is written that every species was made by God to reproduce according to it’s own kind… this is a fact…
Animals and Humans adapt to surroundings but have you ever wondered why….
If (God forbid) one of my closet family members would need my blood due to an accident or somethingrequiring blood..
I might not even have the same blood type to save their life however,
a complete stranger of a different reace from across the sea could have the exact match….
We’ve been here thousands of yearas and nothing has evolved..
not that I need a sign but if nothing has evolved in our time then we don’t have first hand proof of that is all – not even a testimony..
atleast Jesus had those who testify to his life and death and ressurection..
No proof only a hypothesis and you wanna throw darts…



report abuse
 

Boris

posted July 25, 2009 at 10:05 am


Witnes
Evolution by natural selection has been observed and it is as much of a fact is the earth is round. But your stupid holy book claims the earth is flat and never moves. You Bible believers have been fighting and denying science and scientific and social progress ever since the Bible was forged and faked by men to dupe other men just like you. If you think Jesus Christ actually existed you haven’t done your homework. I suggest you start here: Jesusneverexisted.com.
Now answer this question. What is your scriptural evidence that the earth moves? Don’t duck the question Witness. Tell me why you believe the earth moves.



report abuse
 

witnessONEtoo

posted August 11, 2009 at 10:04 pm


Boris…
the old testament makes refferece to keeping track of time by the movement of the moon and studying its fullness or lack there of to determine the time, around which day it be and season also …
Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 40:21-23
What else in the human experience was naturally flat for u to assume they thought it was flat as a sheet of printer paper???
When round like rocks were called EARTH…????
I am not saying that it teaches one way or the other but would like to point out that the dome teaching is very possibly implied..
I havent been off of Earth so I yake the satellites and the astronauts word for it that not only is it round but that they themselves have been off of Earth…
Show me where the Bible teaches that Earth is square and flat!!!
Four corners is a directional reference to space not structural
meaning: front, back, and each side not the shape of the room!



report abuse
 

witnessONEtoo

posted August 11, 2009 at 10:05 pm


Boris…
the old testament makes refferece to keeping track of time by the movement of the moon and studying its fullness or lack there of to determine the time, around which day it be and season also …
Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 40:21-23
What else in the human experience was naturally flat for u to assume they thought it was flat as a sheet of printer paper???
When round like rocks were called EARTH…????
I am not saying that it teaches one way or the other but would like to point out that the dome teaching is very possibly implied..
I havent been off of Earth so I yake the satellites and the astronauts word for it that not only is it round but that they themselves have been off of Earth…
Show me where the Bible teaches that Earth is square and flat!!!
Four corners is a directional reference to space not structural
meaning: front, back, and each side not the shape of the room!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted August 11, 2009 at 10:42 pm


Witness0too
the old testament makes refferece to keeping track of time by the movement of the moon and studying its fullness or lack there of to determine the time, around which day it be and season also …
Boris says: So? Every culture that has been studied has done this.
Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Boris says: There’s a singular instance found in Isaiah that Christians often flaunt to promote an imagined harmony between the Bible and the true configuration of the earth. All the while, previously mentioned scriptures authored by Isaiah and his colleagues go completely ignored. Isaiah 40:22 says, “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth.” The word in question here is “circle.” A circle is a flat two-dimensional object, while a sphere, the approximate shape of the earth, is a three-dimensional object. The original Hebrew term used in this verse is chug, meaning circle. The same word is used twice in the book of Job to describe Heaven and the sea, two areas that we have no reason to believe anyone ever considered spherical. Furthermore, Isaiah does not use the actual Hebrew word for sphere, kadur, in 40:22 even though this utilization would have been much more appropriate if Isaiah intended to convey a spherical planet. In addition to this logical analysis of the verse, historians have long determined that a disc-shaped earth was a popular belief not only in the Middle East, but also in Greece before the time of Aristotle. We even have ancient maps of Babylon and Egypt containing illustrations of a circular sea surrounding circular land. When you combine this tangible evidence with other biblical comments regarding the shape of the earth, the likelihood of Isaiah 40:22 referring to a sphere is extremely remote. – Biblical Nonsense
Four corners is a directional reference to space not structural
meaning: front, back, and each side not the shape of the room!
Boris says: Giordano Bruno pointed out in the 16th century that “There is no absolute up or down… no absolute position in space; but the position of a body is relative to that of other bodies… there is incessant relative change in position throughout the universe, and the observer is always at the center of things.” Of course angry Christians burned Bruno at the stake for expressing this and other ideas about science that conflicted with the Bible. Science has always conflicted with the Bible and it always will. The Bible is definitely describing a square flat earth when it says angels were standing in the corners holding back the winds. This view is present when Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, which of course would be impossible on a round earth.



report abuse
 

Witness

posted August 22, 2009 at 11:16 am


how is that impossible and you never addressed any referrence to the Bible teaching that the Earth is flat and motionless.
You have to come to terms with your stance
You mock people who have faith in something they havent seen because of studies that you havent seen
This double standard and inconsitency should ring a bell for you my friend- sounding that you are now more so arguing than seeking truth.
You can interpret four corners as a square if that makes more sense for you however we ALL know that it’s a colloquialism meaning the entirety of direction North East West South those are four directions
your interpretation fits your arguement that because the colloquialism “four corners” is a geographical lesson is rediculous my friend or that it meant to describe the shape of earth is obviously sketchy when we know this to be a saying!
Again you have faith in science and thats fine but it is FAITH none the less not fact.. for a long time science said the world ws flat but the bible maintained that it was circular.
Science and GOvt tell you many things and it is sad to know that they have won over the hearts of the loudest naives
to scream at faith as if to hold facts..
a wise man knows that he KNOWS nothing and will continue to seek further into truth a dumb ass thinks he knows because of studies conducted by others.. i take it back that is not faith it is ignorance. complete and utter
I will pray for you my friend and hope that you further you conquest in study but not arguements. Take some time and look further.
you seem knowledgeable enough to know a contradicition. you keep trying to find them in the bible but as for you
explain how believing in tests that youve never witnessed or conducted is not faith on your part. BLIND FAITH at that
you have never tested scientific theories- you believe those who get paid to come up with them… how is this not faith Boris
becuase tehy call their tests conclusive.. HOW? they are only conlusive according to their own standards and theyre ok with 45%
I am only cool with 100% consitency and the Bible has it bro-is
hope the best for you friend- it’s been fun!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted August 22, 2009 at 8:30 pm


how is that impossible and you never addressed any referrence to the Bible teaching that the Earth is flat and motionless.
Boris says: In fact, the Bible provides much more erroneous detail about the earth than its purportedly planar configuration. The Bible also explains how foundational pillars, which shake when God becomes angry with us, supposedly hold our planet motionless. Daniel also commits the same error recorded by Isaiah. He speaks of his dream about a tree so tall that “the height thereof reached unto heaven and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth” (Daniel 4:11). It’s impossible to see a tree from all points on the earth, regardless of how far it ascends, because the earth is spherical. While witnessing this tree might be possible from all points on a plane or from all points on the earth known to the Hebrews, such widespread observation is simply impossible on a massive spherical body. Daniel obviously exhibited no special insight or inspiration either. We have a flat earth with pillars to keep it aloft. Since these pillars are the foundation for the earth, and objects with such foundations tend to remain relatively motionless, does the Bible also imply that the earth doesn’t move? Looking into these potential implications isn’t necessary because the Bible directly spells it out for its audience. “The world also shall be stable that it be not moved” (1 Chronicles 16:30), “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?” (Job 38:4), “And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath” (Jeremiah 31:37), “And ye strong foundations of the earth” (Micah 6:2). In addition, Psalms twice mentions that the earth has foundations (18:15 and 82:5) and twice mentions that God established the earth so that it cannot be moved (93:1 and 96:10). Furthermore, Psalms also binds the ideas of a foundation and motionlessness: “Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever” (104:5). Please provide proof that the Bible says the earth moves.
your interpretation fits your arguement that because the colloquialism “four corners” is a geographical lesson is rediculous my friend or that it meant to describe the shape of earth is obviously sketchy when we know this to be a saying!
Boris says: Angels are mentioned in that passage too. No sane person believes in angels.
Again you have faith in science and thats fine but it is FAITH none the less not fact..
Boris says: Science isn’t based on faith. It’s based on evidence that comes from research, experiments and demonstrations. What research, experiments and demonstrations do creation “scientists” do? None.
for a long time science said the world ws flat but the bible maintained that it was circular.
Boris says: Yes I proved how the Bible uses the word for circle and not the Hebrew word for sphere. So the Bible clearly says the earth is a flat circle. Look at the post above yours where this was proved. Around 600 BCE, Pythagoras became the first person we know to have proposed the idea of a spherical planet. His hypothesis subsequently grew in popularity around 500 BCE with the support of Aristotle. While Plato first gave a rough guess of the earth’s size around 400 BCE, Archimedes offered a more educated hypothesis of its circumference around 250 BCE. Moreover, during Archimedes’ lifetime, Eratosthenes was completing the first in depth scientific research into the circumference mystery. Why did every Protestant denomination hold to a flat immoveable earth until well into the 19th century. You people ignore the history of your own religion and its constant attempts to deny science. Wake up from your religious stupor and read the post above yours. It proves beyond any doubt that the Bible teaches the earth is flat, sits on a foundation that never moves and is supported by pillars. The Bible also clearly says the sun orbits the earth.
you seem knowledgeable enough to know a contradicition. you keep trying to find them in the bible but as for you
Boris says: Trying to find them? One doesn’t have to look very hard to find contradictions in the Bible. What was Solomon’s mother’s name? What was Moses’ father-in-law’s name? Where was Rachel buried? How many brothers did David have? Was Jesus crucified before or after the Passover meal was eaten? Who killed Goliath? Don’t avoid these questions. You’re going to find our which one of us has actually studied the Bible. And it isn’t you.
explain how believing in tests that youve never witnessed or conducted is not faith on your part. BLIND FAITH at that
you have never tested scientific theories- you believe those who get paid to come up with them… how is this not faith Boris
Boris says: Could you come up with a dumber argument? No avenue of human endeavor is more open to scrutiny than science. Scientists absolutely love proving each other wrong. Science is therefore self-correcting unlike your religion.
becuase tehy call their tests conclusive.. HOW? they are only conlusive according to their own standards and theyre ok with 45%
Boris says: You don’t know the first thing about science or scientific method. Scientists never say any finding is conclusive because scientific method does not allow that. In science all conclusions are tentative, that is, are not necessarily the final word. All findings are open to further revision or even outright refutation. Quite different form Christianity, which claims to have the final word and refuses test its claims.
I am only cool with 100% consitency and the Bible has it bro-is
hope the best for you friend- it’s been fun!
Boris says: The Bible says vegetation was on the earth BEFORE the sun and moon even existed. We know a lot about star formation because we can observe stars like our sun in various stages, forming and burned out and all points in between. We know our sun didn’t just pop into existence a few thousand years ago just like it is now. It took millions of years to form like all the other stars in the universe. You’re right the Bible has 100% consistency all right. The Bible is consistently wrong about EVERYTHING. ROFL! The Bible says dead came back to life and climbed out of their graves and appeared to many other people in Jerusalem. Yep the Bible is consistent all right.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted August 30, 2009 at 3:19 pm


how is that impossible and you never addressed any referrence to the Bible teaching that the Earth is flat and motionless.
You have to come to terms with your stance
You mock people who have faith in something they havent seen because of studies that you havent seen
This double standard and inconsitency should ring a bell for you my friend- sounding that you are now more so arguing than seeking truth.
You can interpret four corners as a square if that makes more sense for you however we ALL know that it’s a colloquialism meaning the entirety of direction North East West South those are four directions
your interpretation fits your arguement that because the colloquialism “four corners” is a geographical lesson is rediculous my friend or that it meant to describe the shape of earth is obviously sketchy when we know this to be a saying!
Again you have faith in science and thats fine but it is FAITH none the less not fact.. for a long time science said the world ws flat but the bible maintained that it was circular.
Science and GOvt tell you many things and it is sad to know that they have won over the hearts of the loudest naives
to scream at faith as if to hold facts..
a wise man knows that he KNOWS nothing and will continue to seek further into truth a dumb ass thinks he knows because of studies conducted by others.. i take it back that is not faith it is ignorance. complete and utter
I will pray for you my friend and hope that you further you conquest in study but not arguements. Take some time and look further.
you seem knowledgeable enough to know a contradicition. you keep trying to find them in the bible but as for you
explain how believing in tests that youve never witnessed or conducted is not faith on your part. BLIND FAITH at that
you have never tested scientific theories- you believe those who get paid to come up with them… how is this not faith Boris
becuase tehy call their tests conclusive.. HOW? they are only conlusive according to their own standards and theyre ok with 45%
I am only cool with 100% consitency and the Bible has it bro-is
hope the best for you friend- it’s been fun!



report abuse
 

witness

posted August 30, 2009 at 3:29 pm


David was the youngest of 8 and when his brother died He was the 7th youngest child He had 7 living brothers when it was written…
if you are trying to discredit 2samuel21:19 you might wanna go back and study 1chronicles 20:5 to understand where the reference of goliath’s brother comes from.
the issue of conterxt is so important for people to understand how to read a history book.
There are foreshadows and revelation and parables and present info…
you can read it like a flip book.
if you take five people in whom attended the same exact party and the next day asked all five to write an account of what happened – you will get five synoptic stories that still have each of their own differences but that is not a contradiciton.
If I say Becky came to the party
and then you say Becky came to the party with Michelle
it doesnt make mine false- it makes for a synopsis with one having added info…
the fact that it says David slew the Giant and in two other places refers to giants as goliath is the same way Nimrod and Baal and Beezlebub were called Lucifer
it is the same way that i am called the light and salt of the earth..
are you a fourth grader about it and ask how i am salt and how i am light or is this yet another colloquialism that you have twisted to your advantage?
my question to you is why are christians rediculous?
why aren’t the orhtodox jews crazy for believeing that a messiah will come
but christians are stupid because we believe he was to come and came…????
i understand the importance of the gospel mathcing and in consitency but really? what was moses’ father in laws name????
Are you going to ask next if Paul was Saul or if Simeon was Peter???
Priest of Midian and father-in-law of Moses (Ex. iii. 1 et al.). In the account of the marriage of his daughter Zipporah to Moses (Ex. ii. 16-21), he is called “Reuel” ( = “God is his friend”; see also Hobab). Happening one day to be at the well where Jethro’s daughters were drawing water for their flocks, Moses had occasion to defend them against some shepherds who attempted to drive them away. Jethro, out of gratitude, gave him his daughter Zipporah. After Moses and the Israelites had crossed the Red Sea Jethro went to Moses with the latter’s wife and two sons (Ex. xviii. 1-5). When Moses told Jethro of all the miracles done for the Israelites by Yhwh, Jethro, rejoicing, exclaimed, “Now I know that the Lord is greater than all gods,” and offered burnt offerings and sacrifices. Jethro advised Moses to appoint deputies to assist him to judge the Israelites and render his burdens lighter. After this Jethro returned to his own country (Ex. xviii. 8-27).E. G.
The fact is that the Torah promised Christ…
Christ came!
What did the early Christians have to gain by dying for a gospel that preached peace and confession to Christ alone.
That the commandmenr of CHrist is to Love and the work of the Father is to believe on the one who has been sent…
What personal gain does one have in offering the Truth of Christ?
This is the very reason that Jesus spoke in parrables.
Some Humans are so stubborn and so angry that they
dance around facts and propose the most shallow understandings of language and communication.
If you have ears, hear this…
You have a personal creator and that is why your bady is a more complicated machine than any scientist could fathom.
You were designed specifically and He knows you well.
I pray that your search continues as a search for truth and not a search for words… words are not always true but Truth is always true and it is not relative….
You say that science is based on research and always corrects itself then why are you so sure about what it says – you should always be open to the next correction..
i do not have that problem becuase the consistency is 100% with the word of God it just takes more than to treat as a flip book –extracting lines from their context!
next i want to ask you..
what happened?
who angered you?
who hurt you?
did you grow up in a hypocritical religious home?
that is common.
many people claim to know Christ but live awful lives..
did you get molested by a priest – i could see how that could affect ones trust in a church but how can people blame God for the errors of people???
i am curious to know your story..
there is a blockage that can only be set up by anger.
and i dont think you should be comfortable in saying that the bible is wrong about everything.. i’ll take that as a sarcastic dig but then thats how i take your entire search for truth … as a rofl in regards to real and serious information.. if you think its funny to be synical about sin and refuse the real life things at hand that you could neer begin to explain then cool- you are fine being a pawn and will continue to live the life of cattle who is shifted from argument to argument with all ending with your point of view being law which allows self appeasing and easy living… i get it.. its easy to believe that you will not be judged… but if you love the judge and trust his justice you would not find it so scary-
you are a scared soul frightened by wrath and judgement but you forget the love.
you forget the sacrifice of the unblemished messiah
ALL HE WANTS IS LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE
you have posed SO many attempts to make the bible wrong but i have answered every single one of your questions and you have yet to answer mine.
you are an arguer and when you have fallen so low that you are tired of relying on your own pitiful self appeasing ideals and want the hand of truth to be on your side you will pray and you will repent and you will be heard and forgiven and you will see the truth as it is
ONE



report abuse
 

Boris

posted August 30, 2009 at 6:27 pm


witness
David was the youngest of 8 and when his brother died He was the 7th youngest child He had 7 living brothers when it was written…
Boris says: Where in the Bible does it say one of David’s brothers died exactly?
if you are trying to discredit 2samuel21:19 you might wanna go back and study 1chronicles 20:5 to understand where the reference of goliath’s brother comes from.
the issue of conterxt is so important for people to understand how to read a history book.
There are foreshadows and revelation and parables and present info…
you can read it like a flip book.
Boris says: The fact is that there are at least two different traditions about every story in the Bible. Most scholars believe that this reflects the different traditions from Judea and Samaria about similar stories. This is true about the traditions involving Goliath and Moses’ father-in-law.
are you a fourth grader about it and ask how i am salt and how i am light or is this yet another colloquialism that you have twisted to your advantage?
Boris says: That’s what YOUR side does with colloquialisms. For example the phrase “Day of our Lord” is a common colloquialism that Christians falsely claim always refers to Jesus Christ.
my question to you is why are christians rediculous?
why aren’t the orhtodox jews crazy for believeing that a messiah will come
but christians are stupid because we believe he was to come and came…????
Boris says: Who said orthodox Jews aren’t crazy? I’m Jewish and I don’t know ANY non-orthodox Jews who don’t think orthodox Jews are completely nuts and very dangerous.
The fact is that the Torah promised Christ…
Christ came!
Boris says: Two big problems with that claim. First no Jewish rabbi says the Torah promised Christ and Jesus Christ is not mentioned by name ANYWHERE in the Old Testament. New Testament writers simply wrote fictional stories to make it seem like earlier prophecies had come to pass. If you look at them though you can see the NT writers took the OT passages out of context and twisted them away from their original meanings to pound Jesus of Nazareth into the role of a coming messiah. There you have it: the logical and real explanation for the Bible’s supposed prophetic powers and with it a debunking of the entire Bible. You should thank me for taking the scales off your eyes now.
What did the early Christians have to gain by dying for a gospel that preached peace and confession to Christ alone.
That the commandmenr of CHrist is to Love and the work of the Father is to believe on the one who has been sent…
What personal gain does one have in offering the Truth of Christ?
Boris says: Stories about Christian martyrs are fabrications by the early church. Origen admitted that there were no Christian martyrs.
You have a personal creator and that is why your bady is a more complicated machine than any scientist could fathom.
You were designed specifically and He knows you well.
Boris says: The human body is the result of natural selection’s bottom up design mechanism, after four billion years of cellular evolution. It didn’t just magically poof into existence about 6000 years ago nor is it the result of human-like top-down design.
I pray that your search continues as a search for truth and not a search for words… words are not always true but Truth is always true and it is not relative….
Boris says: Truth does not demand belief. Your religion does so therefore it isn’t true. Truth is self-evident. It doesn’t require blind faith to believe.
You say that science is based on research and always corrects itself then why are you so sure about what it says – you should always be open to the next correction..
Boris says: I am. You’re not though and Bible believers have fought against and denied every scientific theory and discovery ever made ever since the books of the Bible were voted on to be included in the Bible.
next i want to ask you..
what happened?
who angered you?
who hurt you?
did you grow up in a hypocritical religious home?
Boris says: Hardly. My mother used to quote the Gershwin song from the thirties: “It ain’t necessarily so. The things you’re liable to read in the Bible, it ain’t necessarily so.” I’ve been making fun of religion and mocking religious people my whole life. My mother used to tell me I was a card.
that is common.
many people claim to know Christ but live awful lives..
did you get molested by a priest – i could see how that could affect ones trust in a church but how can people blame God for the errors of people???
i am curious to know your story..
there is a blockage that can only be set up by anger.
Boris says: My relatives are Jewish. None of us believe Jesus ever existed because no contemporary Jewish historians wrote a single word about him and the New Testament is written in Greek, not Hebrew. Contrary to common Christian misconceptions most Jews do not believe such a person as Jesus Christ ever existed.
and i dont think you should be comfortable in saying that the bible is wrong about everything.. i’ll take that as a sarcastic dig but then thats how i take your entire search for truth … as a rofl in regards to real and serious information.. if you think its funny to be synical about sin and refuse the real life things at hand that you could neer begin to explain then cool- you are fine being a pawn and will continue to live the life of cattle
Boris says: Look who is talking! “Out of terror, the type has been willed, cultivated and attained: the domestic animal, the herd animal… the Christian” – Friedrich Neitzsche
who is shifted from argument to argument with all ending with your point of view being law which allows self appeasing and easy living… i get it.. its easy to believe that you will not be judged… but if you love the judge and trust his justice you would not find it so scary-
you are a scared soul frightened by wrath and judgement but you forget the love.
Boris says: I’m not scared of being punished in an afterlife because there is no such thing. Jews don’t believe in an afterlife so I wasn’t raised with that asinine superstition anyway. The only reason you believe the stupid things you do is because someone else told you that you had to in order to be saved from wrath and judgment that leads to eternal torment. When people talk about crazy things and present no evidence for them I don’t believe them. You do if they frighten you enough.
you forget the sacrifice of the unblemished messiah
ALL HE WANTS IS LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE
you have posed SO many attempts to make the bible wrong but i have answered every single one of your questions and you have yet to answer mine.
Boris says: What a crock of Christian crap. You’ve answered nothing! The Bible talks about angels, demons, Satan, seraphs, giants, dragons, flying serpents, cockatrices, satyrs, talking animals and vegetation, unicorns, fiery serpents, dead people coming back to life and a bunch of other retarded nonsense for which you have NO evidence and NO answer for why you have no evidence. ROFL!
you are an arguer and when you have fallen so low that you are tired of relying on your own pitiful self appeasing ideals and want the hand of truth to be on your side you will pray and you will repent and you will be heard and forgiven and you will see the truth as it is
Boris says: Your version of truth has nothing at all to do with reality.



report abuse
 

WitnessONEtoo

posted September 6, 2009 at 11:30 pm


I am going to point out the defining position in which you are mistaken in regards to the beliefs of true believers in the Torah and New Testament and those who believe a Christ was to come and that Yahusha or in english Jesus , is that Christ.
You state that our belief demands belief but that truth does not…
“Boris says: Truth does not demand belief. Your religion does so therefore it isn’t true. Truth is self-evident. It doesn’t require blind faith to believe. ”
Truth demands belief my friend. If not then we would not have the opposite words for truth.. False and Lie….
Truth demands belief so much and is so exclusive to what all should know that if one or two or many do not know the truth.. they are cinsidered and called and known as uninformed, misinformed, lied to and all by falsity and primarily purposely.
The Bible says theat God IS THE TRUTH,
That His word is True and the Truth became flesh and was the sacrificial lamb promised to Jews and Gentiles in the TOrah.
All of your concerns were quickly debunked by a swift internet seach of contextual scripture meaning you read it as if to be reading a newspaper from 1928…
You understand the time and the events in the context or time that they are set in…’
Moses’ Father in Law? Really Brother?
It was tradition for men to have more than one name and some of them being the title of their job or field of family business…
thats just one..
the rest are out there and if you go out there and look for Truth and objectively dissect all the information and approach new information and test it to what you knwo to be True than you are a Truth Seeker…. if you spin and dodge, elaborate on hypothesis’ and theory but mock those who have faith in the information theyve accepted… you are an arguer…
`A time will come when you are done arguing ..
meaning instantaneously disagreeing without test or search…
i only say this because when i searched your questions and studied, the answers were clear and none the less my exspereince in life and relationship with God is unwaiveable…
Then there are the technicalities and tho they are deep and take research…
The answers are there!
Happy Hunting Friend…



report abuse
 

yomean

posted September 7, 2009 at 9:01 am

Boris

posted September 8, 2009 at 12:35 am


I am going to point out the defining position in which you are mistaken in regards to the beliefs of true believers in the Torah and New Testament and those who believe a Christ was to come and that Yahusha or in english Jesus , is that Christ.
You state that our belief demands belief but that truth does not…
Boris says: I’m a Jew so I can tell you that you are definitely NOT a believer in the Torah. No rabbi or Jew interprets the Torah the way the New Testament writers did or the way Christian have or do. The New Testament writers twisted OT prophecies away from their original meaning and then wrote fictional stories to make it seem like they were fulfilled by their pagan godman Jesus – Jesus the Jew who only spoke Greek! ROFL!
Truth demands belief my friend. If not then we would not have the opposite words for truth.. False and Lie….
Truth demands belief so much and is so exclusive to what all should know that if one or two or many do not know the truth.. they are cinsidered and called and known as uninformed, misinformed, lied to and all by falsity and primarily purposely.
The Bible says theat God IS THE TRUTH,
That His word is True and the Truth became flesh and was the sacrificial lamb promised to Jews and Gentiles in the TOrah.
Boris says: The Bible is not the dictionary and it cannot define human words for us. Look up truth in the dictionary and you’ll see it has absolutely nothing to do with your God. What you are saying is that truth means acceptable religious doctrine. Go ahead and delude yourself with that idea all you want.
It was tradition for men to have more than one name and some of them being the title of their job or field of family business…thats just one..
Boris says: It’s also the tradition of men to claim certain books and doctrines came from God without providing any evidence for it. Hahaha
the rest are out there and if you go out there and look for Truth and objectively dissect all the information and approach new information and test it to what you knwo to be True than you are a Truth Seeker…. if you spin and dodge, elaborate on hypothesis’ and theory but mock those who have faith in the information theyve accepted… you are an arguer…
Boris says: What information do you believers think you have that no one else does? Your superstitions? Give me a break.
A time will come when you are done arguing ..
Boris says: I’ve read the Bible a lot more carefully than you have. I’ve studied the languages of the Bible especially Greek. You can try to tell me what’s in there but obviously you ran to the Internet to get answers for my questions about it. You Bible believers are pathetic. Perhaps you should have read the Bible BEFORE you believed you’d go to hell for not believing it. Do you even realize that’s why you believe the stupid stories in the Bible in the first place? Because you’re afraid not to. Why don’t you try forgetting all the nonsense and superstitions about the Bible other people have packed your head with for just long enough to sit down and read some of it and see what happens? Take a good long unbiased look at the Bible and then get back to me. After you learn ancient Greek.



report abuse
 

The Witness

posted October 4, 2009 at 6:56 pm


Your mistaken by bxing me in with fearfull manequins..
Fear did not spark my search infact information did…
Anyone who knows me will atest to the fact that I am a truth lover in every sense, topic and existence…
If something is true, I call it true
If something is false I call it false and if I don;t know I study and if I believe in something that I can’t prove and that you can’t disprove then it’s obviously a personal experience and universally personal at that.. your lack of belief in it is personal just as my faith in th Messiah is personal… there is no way to make someone understand the meaning of a story, no matter how elementary you get with the explination..
There mere fact that you mock Christians for believeing in the
same manner in which you believe in science.. would be a red flag for me personally I would recognizeand address the self contridiction in that and wouldnt be satisfied with my stance.. you stand by such incomplete rebuttles that are more true contridictions than the linguistic oppoisition you have with versions and meaning of words.. your stance on our belief in christ is the stance you should have on your own belief by your own standard and youre blind to your own rule of understanding truth!
I believe in the torah! I believe the messiah and the Everlasting Father would bare my iniquities! and He did! He came and did and I love and thank you Yahshua.. King of Kings, Prince of Peace!
May your heart search longer and harder for the truth and that is fully true in the highest standard.
God bless you Boris.. and may you open your eyes!



report abuse
 

Mr. Incredible

posted October 4, 2009 at 11:45 pm


Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
I’m a Jew so I can tell you that you are definitely NOT a believer in the Torah.
——————————————————————–
That’s cuz we are under Grace. If you wanna stay under Law, stay under Law. We’ll stay under Grace.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
The Bible is not the dictionary and it cannot define human words for us.
——————————————————————–
The dictionary is not a lawgiver, anyway. It is a history of usage book.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
Look up truth in the dictionary and you’ll see it has absolutely nothing to do with your God.
——————————————————————–
That’s cuz men’s truth is not God’s Truth.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
What you are saying is that truth means acceptable religious doctrine.
——————————————————————–
The Truth, to God, is not men’s truth. You don’t know the difference.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
It’s also the tradition of men to claim certain books and doctrines came from God without providing any evidence for it.
——————————————————————–
That’s why certain other books were not included in the Sacred Text.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
What information do you believers think you have that no one else does?
——————————————————————–
The Information in the Word of God.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
I’ve read the Bible a lot more carefully than you have.
——————————————————————–
But not as it was intended to be read.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
I’ve studied the languages of the Bible especially Greek.
——————————————————————–
But gained no insight.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
You Bible believers are pathetic.
——————————————————————–
PERSECUTED FOR JESUS! WHAT A DEAL!
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
Do you even realize that’s why you believe the stupid stories in the Bible in the first place? Because you’re afraid not to.
——————————————————————–
I’m not afraid not to. I read the Word of God because I love God, and cuz He has performed what He promised.
Boris
September 8, 2009 12:35 AM
Why don’t you try forgetting all the nonsense and superstitions about the Bible other people have packed your head with for just long enough to sit down and read some of it and see what happens? Take a good long unbiased look at the Bible and then get back to me.
——————————————————————–
Were you, by chance, in another life, in the Garden, talking to Eve?



report abuse
 

Witness

posted October 22, 2009 at 10:44 pm


such a true name Mr.I.
thewriter@witnesstoo.org
thanks!



report abuse
 

N. Lindzee Lindholm

posted November 21, 2009 at 9:11 pm


Since Pres. Barack nominated Dean Koh, a man who embraces the transnationalist, international-first philosophy for international law, isn’t this a good indicator of the liberal approach that Pres. Barack utilizes for his interpretation of the Constitution and where the administration is headed?



report abuse
 



Previous Posts

Another Blog To Enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting LynnvSekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow: Faith and Justice  Happy Reading!

posted 11:26:38am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Another blog to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Lynn V. Sekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow's Faith and Justice Happy Reading!!!

posted 10:36:04am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

More to Come
Barry,   It's hard to believe that we've been debating these constitutional issues for more than two years now in this space.  I have tremendous respect for you and wish you all the best in your new endeavors.   My friend, I'm sure we will continue to square off in other forums - on n

posted 4:52:22pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Thanks for the Memories
Well Jay, the time has come for me to say goodbye. Note to people who are really happy about this: I'm not leaving the planet, just this blog.As I noted in a personal email, after much thought, I have decided to end my participation and contribution to Lynn v. Sekulow and will be doing some blogging

posted 12:24:43pm Nov. 21, 2010 | read full post »

President Obama: Does He Get It?
Barry,   I would not use that label to identify the President.  I will say, however, that President Obama continues to embrace and promote pro-abortion policies that many Americans strongly disagree with.   Take the outcome of the election - an unmistakable repudiation of the Preside

posted 11:46:49am Nov. 05, 2010 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.