Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


Vouchers Go Down; Irony Barely Survives

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

Just yesterday, the Senate trounced the effort to create a kind of “voucher scheme forever” for the District of Columbia.  The vote was 58 opposed and 39 in favor.  The issue will not ever go away, of course, because the facts apparently don’t matter to a significant minority of people.

As I pointed out in my earlier post, voucher plans do not work.  Some of the parents in the DC program actually don’t like the program, many parents eligible for it don’t even apply, and in general the students themselves have mixed reactions (but don’t feel particularly safer in their new schools than they did in their old ones.)  But, I digress with the facts.


The irony of my previous argument was lost on you and some of our
posters.  I don’t really think Senator Jon Ensign or Senator Jim DeMint
(two vocal advocates of vouchers) are “socialists”.  I was just
pointing out the hypocritical interest these two and others have in
“equalizing” opportunity only in regard to school vouchers.  They
aren’t leading any fight to “equalize” health care for all children;
they aren’t spearheading the effort to make sure that women are paid
the same as men for the same work.  They have an ideological point to
make about public schools.  They don’t like them.  Therefore, they want
to replace them with a repeatedly failed alternative that just happens
(I’m getting breathless here) to have a direct financial benefit to the
mainly religious private schools that get the funding.  DC is the petri
dish for lousy ideas these and other Senators would like to promote all
over the country if they had the chance.



Advertisement
Comments read comments(13)
post a comment
Mary-Lee

posted March 12, 2009 at 12:43 pm


Barry, most of us “got” what you were saying. But thanks for pointing out that: “They aren’t leading any fight to ‘equalize’ health care for all children; they aren’t spearheading the effort to make sure that women are paid the same as men for the same work.” Good point!



report abuse
 

Boris

posted March 12, 2009 at 1:34 pm


I grew up in Arlington County which is right outside DC and also in the city itself. The difference in the public schools is like night and day. I graduated from Wakefield High School which is the closest school to the Pentagon. Or at least it is since the closing of the segregated Hoffman-Boston all black school in 1964. The three high schools in Arlington County, W&L, Wakefield and Yorktown were the highest rated schools scholastically in the entire country including all private schools. (This is why none of you can win a debate with me by the way.) A “C” student from Arlington had their choice of pretty much any university in the country. Across the Potomac River one third of the DC public school graduates could not read their diplomas.
Now my classmates were children of Pentagon, State Department, Fort Myer, Henderson Hall, Main Navy and White House employees. These people made very sure that their children got the best education possible from the public school system – in Arlington County, where they lived. Before these people joined the “white flight” from inner cities in America they had made very sure that their children got the very best education possible – in Washington D.C. The schools in D.C collapsed scholastically when educated people ran from the inner cities and let them turn into slums. In other words racism is the cause of the problems in the D.C schools. I know, I lived through the changes and saw them first hand.



report abuse
 

jimbino

posted March 12, 2009 at 4:45 pm


Barry Lynn needs to come to terms with the fact that the paladin of vouchers, Nobelist Milton Friedman, was antagonistic to the ideas of socialized healthcare and “comparable pay” for men and women.
We libertarians congratulate Barry Lynn for his sustained effort to free us from religious oppression here in Amerika, but we also congratulate Jay Sekulow for his efforts to free us from socialized education in Amerika.
Those of you who still think that there are only two poles to Amerikan politics (liberal & conservative) need to take the “shortest political quiz”: http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html



report abuse
 

Boris

posted March 12, 2009 at 6:40 pm


Jimbino,
Jay Sekulow’s real problem with the public schools, his dirty little secret, is that they teach science. He’s not kidding anyone. Jay Sekulow wants our public schools to teach pseudo-science so that our public school children will be more susceptible to the dogma, doctrine and delusions of a particular religion, his religion. Sekulow and the rest of the fundamentalists have already been defeated in court where it was pointed out that the nonsense these religious fanatics want to force on our public schools has been soundly rejected by their own Christian academic community a long time ago. In other words evolution, common descent, cosmology and the rest of the science Sekulow doesn’t believe in is taught is every Christian college and university in the world that has a science department. The beauty of home schooling and Christian academy indoctrination is that once Christian students enter a Christian college they will quickly learn they’ve been hoodwinked by their parents and teachers about science and 80 per cent of them will reject their faith during their college years. Christianity’s 2000 year long war on science has finally choked it out. There is nothing left of this generation to carry on this evil, destructive and absolutely false religion.
You want to do away with public education but have offered no alternatives. This is always the conservative way – stand in the way of progress and whine about it. You unwisely assume that just because you don’t like public education the majority of Americans agree with you. Well they don’t. What would you do? Turn the education of our future to private companies or fanatics like Jay Sekulow and his kind? You can bet schools in Tennessee and Kentucky would be taking field trips to Ken Ham’s Creation Museum if people like you and Sekulow had your way.
Finally the reason our public schools are a mess is because neo-conservatives like Sekulow dummed them down to make our children susceptible to Christian religious beliefs several decades ago. Then they blamed this on the liberals and minorities and other random scapegoats. We have to take our schools back from the neo-cons and they will be just fine. The fact that we even had a court case to keep stupidity out of our public schools shows just how far they have tumbled. But people like you Jimbino and Sekulow are directly responsible for this. You reap what you sow.



report abuse
 

Laura

posted March 12, 2009 at 11:50 pm


Boris,
Are you afraid that religious people are going to force you to believe what they do? Do you think there’s going to be a theocracy? What you’re accusing us of doing is exactly what you’re doing with secularism or Atheism. The people in Government are trying to Force us to believe and live as they do. Some claim to be Christians and Catholics; They are “in name only.” To re-phrase a quote from our good ole pal Forrest Gump, “A Christian is as a Christian does, sir!” By the way, we now have a Atheocracy in this country; at least most of the Government seems to be.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted March 13, 2009 at 12:40 am


Laura
Religious people cannot convince me of anything other than religion is self-induced insanity. No one in the government cares what you or I believe and no one else does either. The only people trying to force you to believe anything are your religious cult leaders.
Your argument is what is known as the “No True Scotsman Fallacy,” something every first year philosophy or logic student is familiar with. For instance whenever things like the Inquisitions, Crusades, witch burnings, slave trading, the genocide and infanticide of the Native Americans, the Holocaust or other atrocities done by Christians are mentioned by critics, people like you claim that those things were all done by people who weren’t “true Christians.” You people claim that 85 per cent of the population is Christian (really 76%) but anytime we point to any Christian who doesn’t agree with your point of view politically you pull the no true Scotsman fallacy. We should believe that the government, our largest employer, doesn’t contain roughly the same percentage of Christians that the rest of the population does – another logical fallacy. Your claim that the government is secular and at the same time a theocracy is yet another absurdly illogical statement. Which is it?



report abuse
 

dsjulian

posted March 13, 2009 at 7:09 am


Laura: “By the way, we now have a Atheocracy in this country; at least most of the Government seems to be.”
Since the election of the Reagan administration, strongly aided by the religious right wing of the Republican Party and the Supreme Court, there has been a strong push to overturn a firm policy of the last 200+ years: the separation of church and state. Even with the strong ratification of Article VI and Amendment I of the Constitution of the United States, a long judicial history of religious neutrality, and by even stronger statements concerning individual freedom of conscience in spiritual or religious matters in State constitutions, there were and are still are some very prominent voices, including a Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, claiming that this long-standing tradition was actually just a myth. The issue was brought back to the forefront recently by the 9th U.S Circuit Court of Appeals in a ruling that would remove the phrase “under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance.
It should be noted here that references to God in our official government documents are all very recent additions. For example, the original Pledge of Allegiance, adopted by President Benjamin Harrison for Columbus Day, October 12, 1892 was: “I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands: one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” The phrase “to my flag” was replaced with “to the flag of the United States,” on Flag Day, June 14, 1923. The phrase “of America” was added to that on June 14, 1924, by the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution. The phrase “under God” was not included in the Pledge of Allegiance until June 14, 1954, 62 years after the original Pledge was written, and 165 years after the Constitution was first ratified (1789).
Penned in 1814, “The Star Spangled Banner” (including the lyric “And this be our motto: In God is our trust”) did not officially become our National Anthem until March 3, 1931, two years into the last Great Depression. Prior to that, our official anthem was “My Country ‘Tis of Thee”, also known as “America”, and sung to the tune of the British national anthem, “God Save The King.”
Although the phrase “In God We Trust” appeared on some two-cent coins as early as 1864, it was not officially established as the National Motto until July 30, 1956. It has appeared on the one-cent coin since 1909, on the ten-cent coin since 1916, the five-cent and all other coins since 1938. The motto was printed on paper money beginning with the first one-dollar silver certificates in 1957, and was added to the design of the 1935-G series (actually printed in 1957), and all subsequent designs.
The only direct reference to God in the Constitution of the United States of America is in the date of the document, designated as “in the year of our Lord” indicating use of the Roman Catholic Gregorian Calendar (with its designations of AD and BC) that was reluctantly adopted by the Church of England (and therefore the American Colonies) in 1752 after 170 years of resistance.
Until November 4, 1958 it was illegal for the State of Washington, where I live, to pay salaries or other benefits to Chaplains for any state custodial, correctional, and mental institutions; or county or public hospitals, health care facilities, or hospices. Prior to that date, all these positions were staffed by volunteers.
So as you can see, attempts to insert religion into the government are all very recent. Even Francis Bellamy, the original writer of the Pledge of Allegiance, who was both a Baptist Minister and a real socialist, would have never considered adding sectarian, religious language to a Pledge of Allegiance that was supposed to be recited by every citizen.
And yes, Laura, nonbelievers in the USA fully expect that if the emotionalism of the Neofundamentalist Christian Church were allowed to be combined with the raw power of the military services, they would suffer the same fate as unbelievers in Bosnia at the hands of the Serbian Christians or unbelievers in West Africa at the hands of African Christians. We know about 75% of Americans call themselves Christians, yet Barna Research says only about 7% of us actually have a Biblical Worldview. They are not sure that the 7% of us could restrain the rest. And from the recent creationist-Intelligent Design battles we have seen, I can’t say that I blame them…



report abuse
 

dsjulian

posted March 13, 2009 at 7:10 am


Laura: “By the way, we now have a Atheocracy in this country; at least most of the Government seems to be.”
Since the election of the Reagan administration, strongly aided by the religious right wing of the Republican Party and the Supreme Court, there has been a strong push to overturn a firm policy of the last 200+ years: the separation of church and state. Even with the strong ratification of Article VI and Amendment I of the Constitution of the United States, a long judicial history of religious neutrality, and by even stronger statements concerning individual freedom of conscience in spiritual or religious matters in State constitutions, there were and are still are some very prominent voices, including a Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, claiming that this long-standing tradition was actually just a myth. The issue was brought back to the forefront recently by the 9th U.S Circuit Court of Appeals in a ruling that would remove the phrase “under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance.
It should be noted here that references to God in our official government documents are all very recent additions. For example, the original Pledge of Allegiance, adopted by President Benjamin Harrison for Columbus Day, October 12, 1892 was: “I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands: one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” The phrase “to my flag” was replaced with “to the flag of the United States,” on Flag Day, June 14, 1923. The phrase “of America” was added to that on June 14, 1924, by the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution. The phrase “under God” was not included in the Pledge of Allegiance until June 14, 1954, 62 years after the original Pledge was written, and 165 years after the Constitution was first ratified (1789).
Penned in 1814, “The Star Spangled Banner” (including the lyric “And this be our motto: In God is our trust”) did not officially become our National Anthem until March 3, 1931, two years into the last Great Depression. Prior to that, our official anthem was “My Country ‘Tis of Thee”, also known as “America”, and sung to the tune of the British national anthem, “God Save The King.”
Although the phrase “In God We Trust” appeared on some two-cent coins as early as 1864, it was not officially established as the National Motto until July 30, 1956. It has appeared on the one-cent coin since 1909, on the ten-cent coin since 1916, the five-cent and all other coins since 1938. The motto was printed on paper money beginning with the first one-dollar silver certificates in 1957, and was added to the design of the 1935-G series (actually printed in 1957), and all subsequent designs.
The only direct reference to God in the Constitution of the United States of America is in the date of the document, designated as “in the year of our Lord” indicating use of the Roman Catholic Gregorian Calendar (with its designations of AD and BC) that was reluctantly adopted by the Church of England (and therefore the American Colonies) in 1752 after 170 years of resistance.
Until November 4, 1958 it was illegal for the State of Washington, where I live, to pay salaries or other benefits to Chaplains for any state custodial, correctional, and mental institutions; or county or public hospitals, health care facilities, or hospices. Prior to that date, all these positions were staffed by volunteers.
So as you can see, attempts to insert religion into the government are all very recent. Even Francis Bellamy, the original writer of the Pledge of Allegiance, who was both a Baptist Minister and a real socialist, would have never considered adding sectarian, religious language to a Pledge of Allegiance that was supposed to be recited by every citizen.
And yes, Laura, nonbelievers in the USA fully expect that if the emotionalism of the Neofundamentalist Christian Church were allowed to be combined with the raw power of the military services, they would suffer the same fate as unbelievers in Bosnia at the hands of the Serbian Christians or unbelievers in West Africa at the hands of African Christians. We know about 75% of Americans call themselves Christians, yet Barna Research says only about 7% of us actually have a Biblical Worldview. They are not sure that the 7% of us could restrain the rest. And from the recent creationist-Intelligent Design battles we have seen, I can’t say that I blame them…



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted March 13, 2009 at 9:24 am


Boris,
You present the most pompass, assuming, derogatory arguments ever known to man. You name-call, lie, and are just plain rude. Whether Christian or not, everyone can see that the world is damaged, not by Christians, Jews, or Hindus, but by the intolerance you present. You make claims about all religions based solely on your perception and present them as truth. Shame, shame, shame!!!



report abuse
 

jimbino

posted March 13, 2009 at 9:25 am


Boris says: Jay Sekulow’s real problem with the public schools … is that they teach science.
Jimbino says: Most of my fellow scientists feel that the problem with public schools is that they don’t teach science and math. How can they, when they reject experienced engineers and scientists as math teachers, in favor of the football coach, because the former don’t have “certification”?
Boris says: The beauty of home schooling and Christian academy indoctrination is that once Christian students enter a Christian college they will quickly learn they’ve been hoodwinked by their parents and teachers about science and 80 per cent of them will reject their faith during their college years.
Jimbino says: The beauty of home schooling is that you can get quality teachers and quality textbooks. Are you aware that the recent winners of spelling bees, geography bees, math bees and physics bees are overwhelmingly home-schooled? The sad thing about public education is that while it is moderately successful in bringing the dumb and lazy up to a level of mediocrity, it also brings the bright and industrious down to the same level.
Boris says: Christianity’s 2000 year long war on science has finally choked it out. There is nothing left of this generation to carry on this evil, destructive and absolutely false religion.
Jimbino says: How wrong you are! As I’ve pointed out before, the dumbness of Religion has won out over Science in the USSA. How else can you explain the fact that of the Supreme Court, only Breyer has ever shown any sophistication in math or science? Or that of our Presidents, none since TR could speak a foreign language fluently and none except Taft and Carter has excelled in math or science? Or that, among our 535 Legislators, only some 6 are trained in science or math?
But they all pray, all the damn time (if only that their wives won’t find out).
Boris says: You want to do away with public education but have offered no alternatives.
Jimbino says: If you want alternatives, just read the ample works of voucher paladin Milton Friedman that are widely available. There’s little I can add to his recommendations.
Boris says: This is always the conservative way – stand in the way of progress and whine about it. You unwisely assume that just because you don’t like public education the majority of Americans agree with you. Well they don’t. What would you do? Turn the education of our future to private companies or fanatics like Jay Sekulow and his kind? You can bet schools in Tennessee and Kentucky would be taking field trips to Ken Ham’s Creation Museum if people like you and Sekulow had your way.
Jimbino says: When “progress” is socialism, any wise person has to stand in the way, of course. And it little matters that the majority of Amerikans don’t agree with me, poorly educated as they were in public schools. The majority can’t even recite the Ten Commandments, for Darwin’s sake! No I don’t want to turn education over to religious fanatics any more than I would turn over child rearing or sex education over to Amerikan parents, of course. But when kids are sick, parents take them to a private clinic. When kids need eyeglasses, parents take them to a private optometrist. When kids “need” moral education, parents take them to a private church. When kids need food, parents take them to a private restaurant. When kids need physical exercise, parents take them to a private club. When kids need education in math and science, parents need to take them to a private school. Nobody in his right mind would look to the government for health care, eyeglasses, moral education, food, or exercise. So why the hell would they look to government for education in math and science? The federal government should have exactly that role in educaton that the Constitution give it: NONE.
Boris says: Finally the reason our public schools are a mess is because neo-conservatives like Sekulow dummed [sic] them down to make our children susceptible to Christian religious beliefs several decades ago.
Jimbino says: No, our public schools are a mess because they are maintained to serve the interests of educators and their unions, not those of parents, much less those of kids. Parents and kids get the idea, which is why they run, not walk, to the nearest private, charter or voucher school when they get the chance. Furthermore, it wasn’t that many decades ago when kids got a real education, before public schools or teachers’ unions even existed.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted March 13, 2009 at 9:19 pm


Your Name: If I “name-call, lie, and are [am] just plain rude” then name it and claim it. Don’t just make pompous (would be the correct spelling not pompass), assuming, derogatory arguments without presenting any evidence. Do what I do when I refute someone and rephrase or reprint the argument and then give evidence to show how it’s false. Look at the post below yours where Jimbino has taken the time to point out exactly where he thinks I’m mistaken and i will now do with his post. Then sometimes just for good measure I mock and ridicule the argument too. But I try not to attacked individuals as you have attacked me. The statements I make about religions do not come based solely on my perception nor do I present them as truth. What I say about religion comes from studying the subject at a Christian college.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted March 13, 2009 at 11:04 pm


Jimbino,
Jimbino says: Most of my fellow scientists feel that the problem with public schools is that they don’t teach science and math. How can they, when they reject experienced engineers and scientists as math teachers, in favor of the football coach, because the former don’t have “certification”?
Boris says: You’re right scientists are appalled at the scientific ignorance of public school students. But this is because the schools have been dummed down. It’s not hard to get certified to teach something. I did it. I’m certified. But it doesn’t pay enough.
Jimbino says: The beauty of home schooling is that you can get quality teachers and quality textbooks. Are you aware that the recent winners of spelling bees, geography bees, math bees and physics bees are overwhelmingly home-schooled? The sad thing about public education is that while it is moderately successful in bringing the dumb and lazy up to a level of mediocrity, it also brings the bright and industrious down to the same level.
Boris says: “Of Pandas and People” and “Creation in Biology” are NOT quality textbooks, they’re religious dogma. Again what you are doing is flaunting the rare successes that occur when your ideology works and harping on the dismal failures that are bound to be present in any system no matter how good it is MOST of the time.
Jimbino says: How wrong you are! As I’ve pointed out before, the dumbness of Religion has won out over Science in the USSA. How else can you explain the fact that of the Supreme Court, only Breyer has ever shown any sophistication in math or science? Or that of our Presidents, none since TR could speak a foreign language fluently and none except Taft and Carter has excelled in math or science? Or that, among our 535 Legislators, only some 6 are trained in science or math?
But they all pray, all the damn time (if only that their wives won’t find out).
Boris says: I would have totally agreed with you five years ago or perhaps a bit less. But our society is too materialistic, too self-absorbed, too preoccupied with other things to pay any attention to religion. Some blogger recently pointed out that religions go away if you just ignore them. I think it’s working. I mean president Obama has already done about a dozen things that have thoroughly angered and frustrated the religious right in this country. Their responses are simply marginalizing them even more. Most of them will fall off their flat earth eventually.
Jimbino says: If you want alternatives, just read the ample works of voucher paladin Milton Friedman that are widely available. There’s little I can add to his recommendations.
Boris says: I don’t think debates get anywhere throwing books or other literature back and forth. I’m pretty sure someone has written a refutation of Friedman’s ample works and probably a very good one or ones too. Most people simply cannot afford private education nor do they any longer private sector over the government.
Jimbino says: When “progress” is socialism, any wise person has to stand in the way, of course. And it little matters that the majority of Amerikans don’t agree with me, poorly educated as they were in public schools. The majority can’t even recite the Ten Commandments, for Darwin’s sake! No I don’t want to turn education over to religious fanatics any more than I would turn over child rearing or sex education over to Amerikan parents, of course.
Boris says: I pointed out in a previous blog that in Arlington where I went to school, the schools were excellent but in our nations capital, Washington D.C. right across the river, most of the public schools were horrible. Unless, and this is VERY important, they were in a wealthy neighborhood of which there are several in D.C as you might imagine. In the ghetto the schools were not only bad they were dangerous. And so it goes with all public education.
You said: But when kids are sick, parents take them to a private clinic…..
Boris says: When kids are sick, parents take them to a private clinic or the free clinic. When kids need eyeglasses, parents take them to a private optometrist or the state university to have their eyes checked for much less money. When kids “need” moral education, parents take them to a private church, unless they have better sense and teach them to read and instill a sense of curiosity by taking them to the public library, public parks, public museums, zoos, etc. When kids need food, parents take them to a private restaurant, or to the grocery store and pay with food stamps. When kids need physical exercise, parents take them to a private club, or a public recreation center, public pool, a public park or a public beach. When kids need education in math and science, parents need to take them to a private school or put them in special Ed if they need it or accelerated classes or even special public schools for the “gifted.”
You said: So why the hell would they look to government for education in math and science? The federal government should have exactly that role in educaton that the Constitution give it: NONE.
Boris says: No, the public wants public education and so the public shall have it. Here’s where we can agree 100 per cent though. We don’t need a massive federal agency with a huge budget that educates no one.
Jimbino says: No, our public schools are a mess because they are maintained to serve the interests of educators and their unions, not those of parents, much less those of kids….
Boris says: In this country any and every system has the potential to be corrupted by greedy people because we live in a CAPITALISTIC society and the sole motivation behind capitalism is greed. Unions are greedy like everyone else in America. What do you expect? So if we acknowledge we’re greedy people then what we have to do is make teaching public school much more lucrative than it is now. Many of our teachers both public and private, graduate in the bottom third of their class. This is NOT good. We need to raise the standards and raise the pay because these public servants are the most important ones we have. They need to be compensated in accordance and they need better incentives to perform and produce.
Modern societies cannot function in a strictly communist, capitalist, socialist, autocratic, democratic or any other kind of dogmatic system. Our governments and systems have to be like if we’re a group a Chinese restaurant. We’ll take two from column A and two from column B, egg roles and rice fortune cookies come with all choices.



report abuse
 

N. Lindzee Lindholm

posted November 14, 2009 at 12:45 am


The point should be made that not all programs funded by vouchers are private, religious schools. Some of the schools are successful charter schools with a specialization. Why do you want more funding to go to lousy schools? The educational institutions that are excelling should be rewarded with more funding, and not all who fit this category are private.



report abuse
 



Previous Posts

Another Blog To Enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting LynnvSekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow: Faith and Justice  Happy Reading!

posted 11:26:38am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Another blog to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Lynn V. Sekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow's Faith and Justice Happy Reading!!!

posted 10:36:04am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

More to Come
Barry,   It's hard to believe that we've been debating these constitutional issues for more than two years now in this space.  I have tremendous respect for you and wish you all the best in your new endeavors.   My friend, I'm sure we will continue to square off in other forums - on n

posted 4:52:22pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Thanks for the Memories
Well Jay, the time has come for me to say goodbye. Note to people who are really happy about this: I'm not leaving the planet, just this blog.As I noted in a personal email, after much thought, I have decided to end my participation and contribution to Lynn v. Sekulow and will be doing some blogging

posted 12:24:43pm Nov. 21, 2010 | read full post »

President Obama: Does He Get It?
Barry,   I would not use that label to identify the President.  I will say, however, that President Obama continues to embrace and promote pro-abortion policies that many Americans strongly disagree with.   Take the outcome of the election - an unmistakable repudiation of the Preside

posted 11:46:49am Nov. 05, 2010 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.