Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


Government Asks People to Pray Really Hard on One Day in May

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

Well, Jay, I enjoyed our debate last week at Gettysburg College and look forward to doing more live and in-person events.  I hope you are now satisfied that no students in Kentucky were threatened with arrest and that all of the furor was caused by students who apparently didn’t believe that school rules applied to them.  But onward…

Of course I cannot tolerate National Day of Prayer, the first Monday in May.  The fact that the government has the audacity to declare such an event is mind-numbing.  I always wonder what the Congress and the President think we should be doing that day: pray harder, longer, louder, or with hands more tightly clasped together?


I have actually participated in a number of “prayer plus” events that day, including one in Oklahoma City which featured speakers who were Christians, Jews, pagans, and atheists–as well as a Baptist gospel singer–all promoting the value of religious freedom for everybody.

Now, your argument in the Freedom From Religion lawsuit is highly problematic.  The fact that historically there have been prayers at government events hardly dictates the conclusion that Congress should be able to set aside one day for special prayer recognition.  But I know where you are going with this.  You want to have the court do what I’ll admit a 5-4 majority did in a 2005 Supreme Court case involving the placement of a Ten Commandments monument near the Texas state capitol.  There the majority basically concluded  that since nobody had complained about it for 40 years, it couldn’t have been that big a deal and was therefore constitutional.

Although I am skeptical that the Ninth Circuit will adopt the Freedom From Religion view (and indeed may rule that the group lacks standing to even pursue the matter) I trust that it will never go as far as you suggest. Jay, of course history matters; however, so does the impact of new realities.  One of those realities is that we have 2000 different religions in this country and 15-20 million nonbelievers, freethinkers, atheists and humanists.  Congress would do well to stick to the things it knows something about (although at the moment I’m having trouble thinking what those topics might be) and leave any and all praying to those who do it and will continue to do it without their intervention.

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Your Name

posted March 23, 2009 at 4:07 pm


Dear Zeus (or Chakra, or Vishnu, or Gaia, or Apollo, or Mercury, or …),
Please let all of the silliness on earth come to an end. Some folks don’t believe in You; others do. Who is right?
Yours sincerely,
Wannabelieve



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Your Name

posted March 23, 2009 at 4:09 pm


Or, Dear Hey Zeus …
(Get it? If not, repeat as many times as necessary until you do.)



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James Stewart

posted March 23, 2009 at 6:08 pm


The mechanisms in place for life to exist as humans are much too complicated for me to believe life is an accident. I think there are absolute codes of conduct and absolute principles to measure ourselves against. I do think those principles are as important for our existence as a belief in one God. I do think Jesus Christ embodies those principles and deserves recognition and honor and obedience in regard to observing those principles.



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Mr. Incredible

posted March 23, 2009 at 10:28 pm


==Dear Zeus (or Chakra, or Vishnu, or Gaia, or Apollo, or Mercury, or …),
Please let all of the silliness on earth come to an end. Some folks don’t believe in You; others do. Who is right?
Yours sincerely,
Wannabelieve==
The One WHo sent His Son to die for you to prove He loves you.



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Boris

posted March 24, 2009 at 12:47 am


I think there are absolute codes of conduct and absolute principles to measure ourselves against.
Boris says: Then explain why the Bible makes no laws against slavery but instead regulates it and tell slaves to be satisfied with their lot in life. Is slavery not immoral? Why did humans beings make slavery illegal when the bible permits it? This alone proves we don’t get our morals from God.



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Ed

posted March 24, 2009 at 9:27 am


With modest arrogance I will repeat the cynical answer I propsed here a few weeks ago. I’ll bet nobody knew what the hell to make of it. My proposal has been around at least 20 years and people still think I’m kidding.
1. Tell God what we’re going to do, i.e. a heads up if God has a head.
2. Assign an auditory pitch to the taxonomy of religious identities. 3. Produce plastic trumpets for each pitch, or compressed-air horns for the pulmonarily challenged.
4. A-theists and a-gnostics and dis-believers will have their own assigned pitches.
5. Blow the damn things reverently or otherwise in lieu of spoken prayer.
6. If the heads-up worked and God is Omnipotent then everything should be hunky dory. The joyful noise from Earth will make God’s Day.
7. Objection to the project asserts that God is not Omnipotent or that the actual purpose of prayer is to impress human listeners.
8. It’ll be a stretch to get really upset when the U.S. goverment suggests a National Day of Horn Blowing. I can live with that.
My horn blows are with the family (after tragedy).



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Praying Gal

posted March 24, 2009 at 9:44 am


BTW Barry, the National Day of Prayer is the first Thursday in May-
not the first Monday.



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Mr. Incredible

posted March 24, 2009 at 2:51 pm


==Then explain why the Bible makes no laws against slavery but instead regulates it and tell slaves to be satisfied with their lot in life.==
Where?
== Is slavery not immoral?==
Deppends on whether the Word of God means “forced servitude,” or “willing servant.”
== Why did humans beings make slavery illegal when the bible permits it?==
Where?
== This alone proves we don’t get our morals from God.==
And, of course, you don’t.



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Frances Allen

posted March 24, 2009 at 2:52 pm


I am happy for the national day of prayer.It shows there is something of value there in our government system.Even with the national push for separation of church and state.The national day of prayer is for everyone of all walks in life.All religions and even those who do not believe.It can be used for praying,meditating,reflecting.Remeber what the USA was like in years past when God was alive and well in our country.How good it was.Remember life does not like a vaccum.When you take something out something comes in to replace it.Take God out and Satan will come in.



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Scott M.

posted March 24, 2009 at 10:27 pm


Well Said!!



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Brian

posted March 25, 2009 at 11:59 am


Barry,
The National day of Prayer is not just about one day of prayer in 365 when as you say it Americans “pray harder, longer, louder, or with hands more tightly clasped together”. We know Americans pray everyday: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/05/study-americans-pray-just-to-get-through-the-day/. The National Day of Prayer highlights our prayer for our leaders in a one a year climatic event. Americans pray for our nation’s leaders and their families – not just Government but Military, Media, Business, Education, Church and Family. It is a first amendment right and an American tradition. Any such rulings in the contrary would violate constitutional protections for religious expression and mark a major departure from our American history.
In the 18th century, the Continental Congress issued a proclamation setting aside time for prayer to seek God’s guidance in the formation of a new nation. George Washington approved chaplains and prayed on battlefields, in office, and throughout his service as general and president. Furthermore:
• President Thomas Jefferson regularly attended church and prayer services held in the nation’s capital.
• In 1863, President Abraham Lincoln called for a day of national prayer.
• On D-Day in 1944, President Franklin Roosevelt declared a national day of prayer and went on national radio to pray for our troops.
• In 1952, Congress passed a law allowing for a national day of prayer. President Harry Truman gave it his signature, and for the next 36 years, presidents annually declared a national time of prayer.
• In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed amended legislation that established the first Thursday in May as the annual day of national prayer.



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Barry Lynn

posted March 25, 2009 at 9:51 pm


Thanks for the correction: National Day of Prayer is indeed the first Thursday in May. I am not changing my personal plans to pray on Monday, however.



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Mary-Lee

posted March 26, 2009 at 10:59 am


• In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed amended legislation that established the first Thursday in May as the annual day of national prayer.
And the rest of your post…
I guess there are some people who will pray on that day and on no other, just as there are those who attend church services on Christmas and Easter but no other time.
If I were the Creator, I’d wonder who they are. I’d certainly wonder who Ronald Reagan was.



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Cara Floyd

posted March 26, 2009 at 2:10 pm


What is all the confusion about? Noah’s Ark actually happenned. So where do we go from here? They knew who the savior was, why do you think they were trying to kill all those babies when his birth was coming? It was all prophesied in the Old Testament. So we have the old covenant and the new. Why did Jesus have to come to this planet? God is holy and the natural man is not. So how do we come in contact with the one true God? through the blood of Christ. We simply were not worthy by our own rightiousness. They killed animals in days of old to redeem them from sin. So Jesus came, the spotless lamb of God. The son of God to redeem us from the curse of the law. So we have freedom in is rightiousness. So now that we have that settled, we can move on to what he wants us to do here, now. National Prayer Day is not making you pray. It is simply a reminder through our nation to pray in sinc. In harmony, so we don’t have so much devision. Cara Floyd



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CAPT Steven Lucks USN (ret)

posted March 26, 2009 at 4:24 pm


Hi – the progressive-socialist-marxist organization called Institute of Policy Studies (IPS), a think tank in Virginia was founded in 1963. IPS (Institute for Policy Studies) and TNI (Transnational Institute) which are the lead organizations that has their goal for Progressives-Socialist-Marxists – IPS and TNI organizations uses their founders formula (Antonio Gramsci’s, a 1920’s Italian Communist) for a gradual, stealthy cultural transformation that will bring America’s radicals to power. Their overseas organizations also includes the Islamofascist organizations such as the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood fathered Husbula (sp?), Hamas, and the ISA (Islamic Student Association) which has infiltrated our college campuses using our rights of free speech and freedom of religion. I hope you know understand the danger of the IPS and how it along with Islam are trying and making inroads to one world government, one world religon, and one world money.
just for your info: the following are organizations that are offshoots or are directly sponsored by the Institute for Political Studies (IPS). Some of the organizations, Mr. Bill O’Reilly talks about in his book “Culture Warrior” which I recommend highly as a must read.
IPS started in 1963 and has operated on the basis of an image of the US as being a “national security state” that is controlled by greedy corporations supporting a militarized regime that pursues a global imperialist agenda. The IPS has carried out wide-ranging propaganda and disinformation attacks against the US and its global alliances. They have attacked the CIA, FBI and military intelligences agencies. IPS is a solar system of progressive-socialist-marxist organizations that are conducting a “counter-hegemony” (a term used by Gramsci for his formula for revolution centered on the idea of breaking what he called the “hegemony” or mind control exercised by the ruling capitalists over the masses). IPS goals are to control, attain political power by imposing strict control of the military and law enforcement; restrict freedom of the press and expression; enforce a massive redistribution of wealth from the private and public sector; limit freedom of speech, religion, right to bear arms, and state’s rights; socialize the economy; and erase American sovereignty to make way for a world without borders. Sound like our current government – note our President and many members of Congress has ties with the IPS.
One of the affiliates of the IPS is the Center for National Security Studies (CNSS) – This group slandered and attacked the CIA and FBI to the point that they created a wall between the law enforcement and intelligence – Islamic terrorists exploited this illogical barrier in the 1993 attack WTC and, in the absence of corrective action by the Clinton admin, again on September 11, 2001.
The Communist Party of the US; Workers world Party; Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism (CCDS); Democratic Socialists of America; Center for Defense Information (CDI); The Center for international Policy (CIP); National Security Archives; War Resisters League; American Friends Service Committee; Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom; Fellowship for Reconciliation; Vietnam Veterans Against the War; National Lawyers Guild; Center for Constitutional Rights; ACLU; World Council of Churches (WCC); National Council of Churches of Christ (NCC); National Education Association (NEA) and the American Federation of Teachers (AFT); AFL-CIO; Service Employee International Union (SEIU). These are just a few organizations that IPS has connections with or are directing their actions.
So you can see why I am concerned over what the IPS is doing along with the building of the World Islamic Caliphate – both have the goal of world domination and we are just sitting back and watching the show. Beware and be for warned!



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Gwyddion9

posted March 26, 2009 at 4:44 pm


CAPT Steven Lucks USN (ret),
do you have references or websites to support such statements? I prefer to read about it myself. Either way, either options are not terribly great, progressive-socialist-marxist or fanatics on the Christian/Islam religion. Neither of them are good or worth living under and all tyrants.



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Boris

posted March 26, 2009 at 4:48 pm


What is all the confusion about? Noah’s Ark actually happenned.
Boris says: Sure it did.“Records of flourishing civilizations in China, Egypt, Babylon, and Mesopotamia exist straight through the flood era of 2500-2000 BCE. This contingency creates a stack of obvious problems without planned solutions because the flood supposedly vanquished the inhabitants of these regions. If this was the case, why do we now possess their journals made before, during, and after this global deluge? The flood would have certainly destroyed these societal accounts if God were truly guilty of genocide. If people from each region somehow managed to survive and continue these records, why isn’t the cataclysmic flood mentioned in their accounts? In fact, no sort of catastrophe on this level exists anywhere in the written histories of any society during any era.” – Dr. Jason Long
The Noah’s ark story is about the most indefensible and retarded story ever told. The fact that anyone could still believe this story only points to the failure of science education in this country. Nowhere else in the world does this kind scientific imbecility exist.
Cara Floyd if the Noah’s ark story happened then why don’t any Christian colleges or universities teach that it happened and instead teach evolution, cosmology, geology and especially oceanography – oceanography which your own CHRISTIAN academic community teaches debunks the Noah’s ark story?



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Your Name

posted March 26, 2009 at 6:57 pm


And you, Rev. Lynn, call yourself a man of God? You’re sounding like an atheist. Remember that the Constitution says we have religious freedom in this country. Maybe that’s why we’re not going after every Muslim mosque on American soil searching for terrorists. If you don’t want to pray on the National Day of Prayer, whatever. But don’t try to stop the millions of us who do want to pray, and thank Pres. Reagan for establishing this special day. If you really want to get down to brass tacks, let’s just take Christmas Day off our calendars, and maybe even not let Jews observe Rosh Hoshanah or Yom Kippur.
I know that on the National Day of Prayer, I will be praying for you, that the Lord would soften your heart and turn it toward Him and this great country we live in. Thank Him for your religious freedom.



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Mr. Incredible

posted March 27, 2009 at 10:45 pm


If we take Christmas Day off the calendar, think of how many secularists won’t get the day off. They have their priorities, and they would rather have the day off than not.



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Your Name

posted March 28, 2009 at 12:12 am


Mr. Incredible,
Thats not the first time youve made such a comment about Xmas. Well youre not speaking for this secularist regarding getting the day off to observe this silly holiday. Yes we have our priorities- and our principles. Life goes on and I work Dec. 25 like any other day.



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Gonzo

posted March 28, 2009 at 3:46 pm


Mr. I….I am a retired member lf the USAF (and unlike the Squid, I have no need to hang onto my rank…), and I frequently worked ALL religious holidays, as I am not a follower of any Abrahamic faith. So, for me, losing “Christmas” does not phase me one bit.



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Mr. Incredible

posted March 30, 2009 at 11:18 pm


==I frequently worked ALL religious holidays, as I am not a follower of any Abrahamic faith. So, for me, losing “Christmas” does not phase me one bit.==
You “frequently” work to the holidays. That means that you didn’t work ALL the holidays ALL the time. So, what about the times you took the holidays off?



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Mr. Incredible

posted March 30, 2009 at 11:20 pm


==Mr. Incredible,
Thats not the first time youve made such a comment about Xmas. Well youre not speaking for this secularist regarding getting the day off to observe this silly holiday. Yes we have our priorities- and our principles. Life goes on and I work Dec. 25 like any other day.==
Not if your workplace closes down for the holiday. If it does, you have to work somewhere else for that day.



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Mr. Incredible

posted March 30, 2009 at 11:22 pm


==…I work Dec. 25 like any other day.==
However, there are so many things that you cannot get done on that day because those operations are shut down for the day. Life may go on, but it doesn’t go on as completely on that day for you as on other days.



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Your Name

posted April 2, 2009 at 11:01 am


“Remember that the Constitution says we have religious freedom in this country. Maybe that’s why we’re not going after every Muslim mosque on American soil searching for terrorists.”
(Maybe only 50% of them? ;{O)
Meanwhile, if America actually does have true “freedom of religion” (it’s not really all that clear, especially if you’re muslilm, hindu, buddhist, tao, wiccan, etc., nevermind atheist – aren’t they “free” to “believe” what they want???), what happens if those Muslims are praying (in or out of their mosques, on, before or after said “national” day of prayer) and their god wins?
See how this works?



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Husband

posted April 9, 2009 at 9:19 am


Boris said:
“The Noah’s ark story is about the most indefensible and retarded story ever told.”
Nahhh, I think the talking snake story, the talking donkey story, the living inside the belly of a great fish story, the bush that burned but did not consume itself story, the ‘the earth is only 6,000 years old’ story, the ‘the sun revolves around the earth’ story (among many others) are equally indefensible.
That said, it’s called faith for a reason, innit?



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Boris

posted April 9, 2009 at 12:30 pm


Husband,
Well you know faith is simply believing what you know ain’t true. Isn’t it ironic that the preacher, Barry Lynn, knows these stories you mention are allegories not to be taken literally. Then we have the supposedly well educated lawyer, Jay Sekulow, who actually thinks these absurd events described in the Bible really occurred. Christianity claims to have turned the world upside down. For some people it surely has.



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N. Lindzee Lindholm

posted November 16, 2009 at 5:49 pm


You ask what Congress expects people to do on the National Day of Prayer. What does the executive and legislative branches want people to do on any holiday? We set aside holidays for well-respected people in our country and we can’t set aside one day for the Lord? Your statistics about the various religions being practiced in the US are intriguing Rev. Lynn, but the truth remains that 76 percent of Americans still self-identify themselves as Christians according to a Newsweek poll in Spring 2009. Why not go with the majority and set aside a National Day of Prayer?



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