J Walking

J Walking


Making no sense of the bridge collapse

posted by David Kuo

The collapse makes no sense. It simply shouldn’t have happened. People driving home from work should not die because a bridge suddenly buckles. The engineers may well find an explanation, a technical explanation, for what occurred. That explanation will still not make much sense to our souls.
I heard yesterday that a former colleague – a still young woman – passed away. My response was the natural human response, “What happened?”
I didn’t just want to know, I needed to know.
Death never really makes sense. This our hearts know best. There isn’t a death – save for the wickedest despots – that gives our souls relief. Even when the very old die our hearts, our souls, still skip a beat. There is still a sad heaviness. There is still the knowledge that this isn’t the way things were meant to be.
That is because this isn’t how things were meant to be. We were not made to die. We were made to live.
I don’t mean this in a rah-rah sense; not in a motivational speaker sense.


I mean it at the core of who we are.
There may be no better proof for God’s existence than this very thing – the soul’s instinct that it was made to live. That is what makes today’s horror so unacceptable to us. These men and women and children were doing what they were supposed to be doing – working and living normal lives. They were living by the “rules” and yet in an instant they were gone without goodbyes, without moments to ponder or come to terms with their own passing.
Jesus taught over and over again that life was fleeting. Paul called us all “vapors”. In our information-saturated world I think we forget that because there is a temptation to believe we can explain everything.
We can’t. We can’t explain suffering. We can’t explain pain or disease or tragedy…not really.
That is why the collapse makes no sense. It never will. We mourn and we pray and we might scream or yell or cry or curse. But that is ok because hurting souls do that and because Jesus knows exactly what that is like because more than anyone else he knows that we aren’t made to die.



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Chris W.

posted August 2, 2007 at 1:35 am


We may never understand the reasons why things happen the way they do. You’d go insane tying to get to the decipher the “why.” But if anything this is a test of our faith and resolve.
One man has demonstrated this. He saw the bridge collapse and attempted to comfort the wounded. When the ambulances arrived he rushed back to his job at a local hospital to work another shift so he could assist his fellow citizens better. He also had a bit of time to share his amazing story with the world http://www.skifactz.com/bridge/
This is a great personal example at the time we must be strong and united in our prayer for the victims of this sad tragedy.



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Rafael Torres

posted August 2, 2007 at 8:40 am


It’s interesting to see how Jesus answered when he was asked to explain the “why” of a similar incident that occurred during his ministry:
“About that time some people came up and told him about the Galileans Pilate had killed while they were at worship, mixing their blood with the blood of the sacrifices on the altar.
“Jesus responded, ‘Do you think those murdered Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans? Not at all. Unless you turn to God, you, too, will die.
“And those eighteen in Jerusalem the other day, the ones crushed and killed when the Tower of Siloam collapsed and fell on them, do you think they were worse citizens than all other Jerusalemites? Not at all. Unless you turn to God, you, too, will die.'”
(Luke 13:1-5)



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Betty J Banks

posted August 2, 2007 at 1:16 pm


Prophetic words. God Bless you!



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Anna

posted August 2, 2007 at 1:38 pm


Those who “turn to God” die too, Rafael Tomes. Otherwise the apostles would still be alive. And so would Tammy Faye!
I agree with Chris W. And who says that they weren’t meant to die in that way, at that time, at that age? “Death is not nearer to the aged than the newborn; neither is life.” (Kahlil Gibran, “Sand and Foam.”)
From this perspective, we may not understand why things happen as they do. Perhaps after we die, and can get the larger view of things, we know that our death happened how and when it did.
What dies? Just the body. The soul lives on. That is what isn’t meant to die.
Sometimes the question should not be “Why does God allow suffering?” but rather “Why do WE allow suffering?” So much suffering in this world can be laid at humanity’s door, not God’s. And if you ask God, “Why didn’t you send help?” God just might answer, “I did. I sent you.”



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Larry Parker

posted August 2, 2007 at 2:13 pm


I have less trouble with engineering disasters (the power of free will entails the power to commit catastrophic, even fatal mistakes) than I do with natural disasters.
Tsunami, hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes and volcanoes are a core part of the natural world that G-d presumably gave us.
Maybe you can say we shouldn’t have built cities in Miami, New Orleans, San Francisco or Los Angeles due to the (realized) potential for major natural disasters. OK. And I do believe that G-d comforts the victims of disasters, natural or man-made.
But what about a random twister spun from the Midwestern sky? (Or the randomness of the tsunami ALL OVER the Indian Ocean?)
In the movie “Twister,” when Jami Gertz asked what an F-5 tornado was like, she was told, “the finger of G-d.” Interesting characterization.



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John E.

posted August 2, 2007 at 2:54 pm


David,
Everyone dies – some from illness, some from old age, some from being crushed by bridges. Death is part of ilfe – the last part.
“There may be no better proof for God’s existence than this very thing – the soul’s instinct that it was made to live.”
I think you have it backwards – a strong desire not to die does not prove the existence of God; rather, I suspect that a deeply held wish for death not to be the end of consciousness generates a belief in afterlifes and Gods.



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Doug

posted August 2, 2007 at 3:05 pm


Thornton Wilder’s Bridge Over San Luis Rey is worth reading now. Early Christian theologians like Origen and Augustine explored these questions. In some ways, most of religion is about keeping God in our understanding of catastrophe. At least the parts that aren’t about electing polecats.



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Peter Ramsay

posted August 2, 2007 at 3:16 pm


The uncertainty of life! That’s why the Bible implores us to be ready – be prepared. Death could overtake us at any moment. We don’t always get advance notice that death is approaching.
According to the Bible, there is death because there is sin. Death in the world is a consequence of sin. Romans 5:12. Pain in human lives is a result of sin in the human race.
Jesus experienced death. Why? He was the only one who never had sin in Him. He was God manifested in human flesh. If death is the outcome of sin, why did He experience death? Because of our sin. He became the sinner’s substitute. He was born to die. Christ died for our sins. 1Corinthians 15:3. Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:6-8
The only way to be prepared for death (spiritually) is to embrace the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. If you visit my website, I will send you a CD of a Heroin addict whose life was radically transformed. http://www.heaven4sure.com



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Maplewood

posted August 2, 2007 at 3:29 pm


Terrible about the folks in Minn. Prayers out to them this evening.
I think it was Voltaire who pointed to a great natural disaster in Italy to support his atheism: a God who would allow this to happen is not worthy of worship, or if he can’t stop it he is not Supreme and unworthy of worship, or He does not really exist at all. In all cases, God is not “worthy”.
I must disagree. I’m coming to the conviction that things like this God can’t prevent – not “won’t prevent, or allows”, but actually cannot. I find comfort in my growing conviction. I find it impossible to disbelieve in God’s existance, and I find it much easier to love a God who wants to help but can’t always help, rather than a God who can help, but picks and chooses according to some supernatural Will or Plan. I don’t buy it.
I find God perfectly worthy of worship if he wants to but can’t. I don’t think He is worthy of worship if He can, but decides not to. I don’t believe God wants or allows the innocent to suffer. Jesus loved the innocent too much. After all, he died for them.



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 3:38 pm


Right on, John E. The fear of death is at the root of myths that assure us that we will live forever. It causes some people to invent another myth: a part of us that is immune to death-the soul-and then insist that it exists in the face of a complete lack of evidence.
Mr. Kuo casually dismisses a physical explanation for this tragedy, but this is one of the most unfortunate consequences of supernatural life-after-death beliefs: they completely de-emphasize human responsibility and autonomy, and devalue human action in the here and now to succor the victims and ensure that this never happens again. Instead, they emphasize base submission to dogma; in this case, the dogma that a supernatural entity called god exists and will help us live forever as long as we believe it.



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Sandra

posted August 2, 2007 at 3:47 pm


I was shocked when I turned on the news last night. This is another
horrific tragedy for the people of Minnesota, and the U.S.. God works
in mysterious ways, and the tragedy that is happening right now throughout the universe is a warning. We have forgotten what life is
all about, and gone our on ways, putting everything else before him.
Even today’s families are not like they were when I grew up. I grieve
for those families that are facing the tragedy of yesterday’s disaster
but I pray instead of turning away from God they will get closer to him and let him guide them through this. He will not forsake us!



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:13 pm


my heart goes out to the people that happen to i just hope they were saved thats the most important when faced with death is our soul being ready to meet the lord. by me reading a little of this is just we live to die and die to live.



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:23 pm


i know God is talking and trying to get my attention and others because people were telling me about this tradgedy happening over the phone and i seen a glimspe of it yesterday on the news while turning my t.v. but really was not paying attention. then i was on a another web site today and this automatically pop up out of know where. God is showing me that this nation needs to pray especially we as christians God is trying to show me to wake up i can honestly say as a christian i have beeb rebelling against God. I and others need to pray. this nation needs to repent. its not God’s fought that that happened he maybe allowed it to happened but not do that to those people. just look at it everyone is going to die whether we like it or not.MY PRAYER RIGHT NOW LORD IS HELP ME HELP THE PEOPLE CAUSE US TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR YOU LORD AND TO REPENT LOVE EACHOTHER AND TO JUST TURN AWAY FROM EVIL. IF THERE’S A CHRISTIAN OUT THERE PLEASE PRAY FOR ME AS YOU READ THIS LETTER THAT I SALE TOTALLY OUT TO GOD AND DO THE WORK HE HAS CALLED ME TO DO WHILE IM STILL BREATHING AND OTHERS TIME IS RUNNING OUT AND SINNERS NEED TO KNOW CHRIST NO DAY IS PROMISE. LOVE, TEE.



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:25 pm


Sandra: “God works in mysterious ways”=”there is no evidence of divine involvement, but I want to involve the supernatural anyway, so I’ll just assert that god was involved without backing it up”
tee: How does submitting to dogma affect what happens after death, when the brain that produced that dogma is shut down, and no different than any other piece of meat?



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:34 pm


tee: “God is talking to me”=”I am interpreting events based on my dogma, rather than reason.” Prayer is another word for talking to yourself, and in this case, talking to yourself to reinforce your dogma by blaming yourself for “God’s actions.” Quit beating yourself up, and let go of your self-hatred for not completely obeying your dogma.



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:36 pm


TO READERS I KNOW GOD WANTS TO USE ME TO WITNESS TO PEOPLE I HAVE BEEN STUBBORN AND REBELLIOUS WHEN I THINK ABOUT HOW SOME OF THEM WHILE LIVING HAD TIME TO PREACH JESUS BUT MAYBE DID NOT. WELL WHILE I HAVE TIME. IF THERE’S A SINNER THAT DON’T KNOW JESUS I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT HE LOVES YOU HE DIED FOR YOU AND HIS DESIRE IS FOR YOU TO HAVE LIFE AND THATS IN HIM JESUS! JESUS WANTS YOU TO BE SAVED JUST CONFESS TO HIM ROMANS10:9,10 IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH AND BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THEAT JESUS DIED AND WAS BURIED ROSE FROM THE GRAVE YOU WILL BE SAVED JUST PRAY THAT PRAYER ASK GOD TO FILL YOU WITH THE HOLYGHOST AND HE WILL. JUST BELIEVE DO IT TAKE ACTION GOD IS WITH YOU HE’S NEVER LEFT YOU. WE MAYBE LEAVE HIM OFTEN BUT HE NEVER LEAVE US. EVEN WHEN WE ACT A FOOL. BECAUSE BELIEVE ME I HAVE ACTED A FOOL PLENTY OF TIMES AND IM 32 YEARS OLD STILL LEARNING. GOD HAS HEALED MY LIVER, HEALED ME FROM BRONCHITIS,DISEASES, ALL KINDS OF THINGS AND GOING THROUGH STUFF RIGHT NOW. GOD IS A GOOD GOD THROUGH IT ALL I MAYBE GOT MAD AT GOD BUT ALL WAYS RUN BACK TO HIM BE CAUSE HE IT THE SOURCE KNOW MATTER WHAT HAPPENS DONT LET HIM GO AND IF YOU DONT HAVE HIM I WOULD SAY TODAY MY FRIEND GOGOGOGOGOGOGO!!!!! GET JESUS HE IS THERE WAITING ON YOU WITH HIS HANDS OPEN TO EMBRACE YOU DEARLY AS A MOTHER WOULD FOR THERE CHILD.



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Autumn

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:38 pm


The bridge collapsed because it was broken.
End of story.



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:44 pm


WHOEVER READ MY COMMENTS AND WOULD LIKE TO WRITE TO ME AND NEED A FRIEND TO PRAY FOR THEM JUST EMAIL ME AT lassietb@yahoo.com keep your mind right in jesus. pray for minneapolis city those people their famlities friends. we need to stick together. what really works is prayer. just pray even if its just a second. don’t never stop praying. times i tried to stop praying but i could not thank god for that conviction mercy and love. love, tee MY PRAYER AND DESIRE IS THAT SOMEONE IS SAVED TO DAY FROM THIS WEB SITE AND ALL SURROUNDING CITYS NATIONS COUNTRIES THE WHOLE MAP OF THE WORLD I BELIEVE GOD AND I HOPE YOU DO TOO.BYE.



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:47 pm


tee: Same ol’ same ol’. A broken caps-lock key and repetitious dogma is no substitute for critical thinking and evidence.
Autumn: *ding ding ding* we ‘av’ a winnah!



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 4:57 pm


I HOPE I DID NOT OFFEND ANYONE IM SORRY IF I DID. ALL I KNOW THAT JESUS IS REAL. SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT PRAYER ALL I KNOW IS THAT: PRAYER IS TALKING TO GOD REQUESTING FOR HIM TO DO SOMETHING A NEED, HELP,TRADGEDY,SICKNESS, WHATEVER YEARNING CRYING OUT TO HIM ON THE BEHALF OF OTHERS AND YOURSELF. HE MAY SAY YES,NO,OR WAIT BUT I KNOW THAT GOD WILL SPEAK AND LET YOU KNOW JUST SEEK HIM AND WATCH WHAT HE WILL DO. AFTER DEATH HOW I SEE IS LIFE AGAIN ETERNAL WITH JESUS. BUT IF YOU DID NOT KNOW JESUS AND DID NOT REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND GAVE YOUR LIFE TO CHRIST BEFORE YOU DIE THEN HELL IS THE PLACE. BUT IF YOU ACCEPTED CHRIST INTO YOUR HEART AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR THEN NO WORRIES HEAVEN ETERNAL FOR YOU. I GOT TO TELL THE TRUTH I DONT KNOW ALOT BUT I KNOW THAT THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN IS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.INSPITE OF ALL OPINIONS JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO REPENTANCE.



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Anonymous

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:04 pm


It seems that this bridge should have been checked regularly. It is a sad thing for the families of the victims, and my sympathies go out to them, for this terrible tragedy.
There is a belief however, that before we come here, we chose our parents, what we need to accomplish during a lifetime, and when and how we exit from here. This is done, prior to our human birth with the help of advanced spiritual beings. We cannot die, but go to the next level of instruction, when we have completed a life here.I believe this, since many of us remember past lives to some extent.
For the families, they can be assured that their loved ones are in a beautiful place, know what happened and why, and are busily beginning a more advance life on the other side. They would want their families to know that they are still close, still loved and that they will meet them again…Dorothy



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:05 pm


tee: until there is evidence for gods, prayer can only be construed as talking to oneself, or possibly the ceiling. The available evidence suggests that prayer does not result in healing. (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?ex=1301461200&en=4acf338be4900000&ei=5088, http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com) You can repeat yourself as many times as you want, but it won’t make your dogma true.



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:05 pm


WELL INSPITE OF I STILL LOVE YOU IN JESUS WHATEVER YOU DO DONT LET GOD GO. I KNOW IT WAS NOT BY MISTAKE FOR ME TO BE ON HERE. ESPECIALLY ALL THE HELL IM GOING THROUGH I AM STRENGTHEN TO ENCOURAGE OTHERS THATS GOING THROUGH FAR MORE THAN ME. EVERYBODY GOES THROUGH SOMETHING EVERY ONE GOES THROUGH SOME KIND OF SUFFERING. THIS IS SOMETHING HOW GOD WOULD ALLOW FOR ME TO BE ONE THIS WEBSITE. MY MIND WAS ON OTHER THINGS AND THIS POPPED UP WHIS I WAS ON ANOTHER SITE. GOD IS AMAZING HE TALKS AND SPEAKS TO US IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS. I REMEMBER MY MOM USE TO ALWAYS SAY THAT GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS WHEN I WAS A LITTLE GIRL AND THIS PROOF AND OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN MY LIFE AND OTHERS SHOWS IT.



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:08 pm


Dorothy: It is indeed a tragedy, but the beliefs you are suggesting are no more reality-based than tee’s. Do you value shallow comfort over the pursuit of truth?



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:12 pm


tee: Too late. I deconverted from Christianity months ago, after being a Christian for three years. I already addressed the problem of attributing everything to a supernatural myth, and why Christians say “god works in mysterious ways.”



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:17 pm


what do you mean shallow conduct over the pursuit of truth.



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:21 pm


tee: I mean that there is no evidence that what Dorothy is suggesting, nor is there any evidence for what you are suggesting. But if you believe things because they make you feel good or comfort you, rather than because there is evidence for those beliefs, that means you value feeling good over getting to the truth. But believing those things won’t change reality, so they are shallow beliefs.
Thank you for getting rid of the caps lock.



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:29 pm


to be honest with you the devil lied to you some where with your walk with christ to turn away from christianity. you should be ashame. not to disrespect you bu to just tell you the truth because i care about your soul. he works in mysterious ways because he is God we never know what hes going to do he can change anything around before you know it. im wondering why you could not answer my question but only God knows so im just going to leave it at that. dorothy jesus loves you i understand how you feel. sometimes we make mistakes get hurt by others or encounter situations and ask God why? but he would not give you nothing that you could not handle. the devil is mad with you he dont want you to serve jesus he is a liar dorothy im begging you turn back to God he put me on here to tell you to repent turn back to him. speaking for my self also. we are not perfect God loves us all the same. everyone one here whether we believe in him are not. but he wants to give you life and thats life in him. my heart goes out to you. keep in touch if you can im here for you as a friend and sister in christ. satan the devil cannot have you God is going to change this situation you know why im going to pray on the behalf of your soul dorothy even if you dont want to write me always know tee is praying for you. love, tee



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:34 pm


tee: there is no evidence of a “devil” either. That’s just fearmongering designed to scare people away from giving up baseless beliefs. Apparently it worked on you. I answered your question. Moreover, there is no evidence of souls either.



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:39 pm


know matter what i believe in God because i chose to. not to make me feel good. because believe me everyday i wake up im not going to feel good everday but its by faith not by feeling. so when i feel good or sad i press towards jesus either way hes going to comfort me and let me know that he is with me. somedays i did not feel him but that does not mean that hes not with me. i know as a christian not to go to God just because i dont feel good but to go to him because i need to theres no other way we have to go to him and its nothing wrong with feeling good he wants us to feel good. we are free people. in jesus we are set free. because if we dont go tohead down destruction the wrong path



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Autumn

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:41 pm


Tee – you really scare me with your talk. Do you not know how frightening and fanatical you sound? If you think you have been singled out by God for a divine mission frankly sounds delusional. It sounds like some of the people who hear voices like Sam Berkowitz (Son of Sam)who thought God told him to murder. I think you need a doctor immediately and I am not trying to be cruel. You need help and I hope that you will get it.



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 5:50 pm


read the book ofgenesis&revelation how it talks about satan the devil and souls then i guaranteed you and promise you im right you are wrong.God is not a God of hurting others and trying to put fear in us fear is of the devil. God has not given us the spirit of fear but of love,power, and a sound mind. remember at the cross the devil was already defeated we are free from fear because if you have christ in your heart why should you fear/ because if some one is scared think about it do they really have christ in there heart? or are they really walking with christ?



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 6:02 pm


well main point i hope i pin point on what i was trying to tell you. i maybe did not explain my self right. because i looked over some errors i made with mispelled words but my main point on here is to tell others about jesus not to scared people. its your choice to follow jesus or satan. but the only way is through jesus. and im also on here to encourage other christians to pray and if you not praying to pray. im not saying that im the only one God wants to use, to carry out the gospel but its others also. even people that are not saved now is going to get saved and God is goin to use them to carry out the gospel. so again im not on here to debate argue or scare anyone just on here to say that jesus is the only way whether you believe it are not his word stands. and you right i do need a doctor i have one his name is jesus christ you need him to like i do.



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tee

posted August 2, 2007 at 6:11 pm


well im abou to log off you can write me at lassietb@yahoo.com or comment on here i will be on here later tonight or tomorrow. remember readers to pray read the bible love,tee



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Jillian

posted August 2, 2007 at 6:13 pm


“The reason lies, not in any real incompatibility between the interests of the temporal and the eternal order; which are but two aspects of one Fact, two expressions of one Love. It lies solely in yourself; in your attitude towards the world of things. You are enslaved by the verb “to have”: all your reactions to life consist in corporate or individual demands, appetites, wants. That “love of life” of which we sometimes speak is mostly cupboard-love. We are quick to snap at her ankles when she locks the larder door: a proceeding which we dignify by the name of pessimism.”
“[Eventually,] the last fragments of selfhood, the very desire for spiritual satisfaction – the fundamental human tendency to drag down the Simple Fact and make it ours, instead of offering ourselves to it – must be sought out and killed.”
-Evelyn Underhill



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Citizen

posted August 2, 2007 at 6:15 pm


Tee: We are not free unless we’ve torn down baseless dogmas. By that measure, I am more free than you. Your mind is in chains. We don’t need god beliefs, we don’t need Jesus beliefs, and we don’t need to think of the Bible as anything other than a book. We need truth and reality, and that is to be found by evidence. You see, out of your own mouth, you are convicted. For you the choice is “Christ” or fear. You are scared, and believing in god and jesus comforts you, but believing in hell and god is what is making you afraid. Stop believing, and end the fear. The choice is not “jesus or satan”, its faith or truth.



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c kitty

posted August 3, 2007 at 12:07 am


Tee — you are a sweet and enthusiastic soul. Those who don’t see that are perhaps lacking in perception.
Citizen -I appreciate your logical approach, but just because you do not understand or see something does not mean it does not exist. Whether to beleive in God or not is always a choice, not a conclusion compelled by evidence. And that is the point. Sounds like you may have been soured by some bad dogma. You can reject dogma and doctrine without rejecting God. Faith, in its best sense, is not the opposite of truth.
As it happens, I live about three miles from the bridge, so this has literally hit close to home. Of course, it reminds us of the unpredictability of life and death. It makes me want to do better.What if the last thing one of those victims saw was me scowling at them, or honking at them with impatience. What if my rude remark was what was on thier mind when they went down with the bridge. Maybe that’s one of the things we are supposed to learn from such events.



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tee

posted August 3, 2007 at 2:23 am


thank you for your compliment i give glory and honor to God. i highly understand that i will get persecuted over the gospel. but hell come hot water i will let people know that jesus came to seek and save the lost. thats true i don’t understand some things but jesus is real he exist. thanks for your help. that’s right people have a choice to serve God or the devil and i can’t tell them what to do but i can tell them the truth what God is telling me to do. anyways i pray for those people who went through that today i was watching the news at work i was just really thinking, about the children who survive and the adults and the ones that did not make it. that just reminds us that life is short tomorrow today,second,minute, or hour is not promised to us.



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tee

posted August 3, 2007 at 2:29 am


i am free. when jesus died on that cross we were no longer bound by chains.so through his blood we are loose from the enemy he cant have the mind unless you let him have it simple is that just rebuke the devil prayer praise and the word that scared the devil and his demons. i praise God for that.the bible is more than a book it’s God him speaking his word to us its life and everything we need to live it shows us where we are right and wrong.



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tee

posted August 3, 2007 at 2:37 am


thats something how you said it makes you to want to do better. not saying thats good that happen. just to say sometimes God allows things to happen to get our attention or warning or just to let us know to change. before and after that happen somebody’s life changed and somebody got saved today. heaven is rejoicing when people get saved. i hope that those people that died went to heaven. i cant say who went or who did because im not God. i just hope they all made it in and those that heard about christ and rejected him had a chance to repent and those that did not made it in also and had a chance to repent. and those that use to know him and turned away and repented and got a chance. i hope i am explaining my self right. i just really hope they all made it.because hell and heaven is real. i feel sorry for the ones that don’t believe.



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tee

posted August 3, 2007 at 2:42 am


please if you want to ask questions or keep in touch with me email me at lassietb@yahoo.com or continue write me on here. if you need prayer im here to pray for you. love in christ, tee@



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tee

posted August 3, 2007 at 2:56 am


well this is my last message tonight remember life and death is in God’s hands he has the power to give life and to take it. we cant tell him what to do he is God.he created us not us creating him. look at it like this everybody haves to die one day whether we like it are not. yes it hurts when we lose a loveone. i can remember when my cousin died i was like why God. but i had to learn everyone has a turn. i did not understand because he was a good man. but i had to look at it like maybe it was his time. and only God knew how long he would live. i just hope he made it in to heaven and he was saved. man we need to just pray this nation you, me and others need to seek God eventhough some is not going to listen but im telling you pray no matter what happens whoever is reading this. well im getting sleepy God bless all the readers i will pray for this web site before i go to bed,dorothy and the other people who are on here. goodnight love, tee i am leaving you with this verse (pray without ceasing) goodnight.



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Citizen

posted August 3, 2007 at 6:56 am


c kitty: I am not saying that gods don’t exist. My message is slightly more sophisticated, and that is this: in the absence of evidence for gods, we should not believe in them. Evidence is the key, unless we are willing to rely on appeals to authority, which are not valid arguments for the truth of claims. Because there is no evidence for the existence of gods, the reason generally given is appeals to authority a.k.a. dogma, based on faith. You speak of “rejecting god,” but I cannot reject something when I lack the belief that it exists in the first place. I do reject faith as a valid “way of knowing.”



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Týsson

posted August 3, 2007 at 11:39 am


“but this is one of the most unfortunate consequences of supernatural life-after-death beliefs: they completely de-emphasize human responsibility and autonomy, and devalue human action in the here and now to succor the victims and ensure that this never happens again.”
This does not follow from the available evidence. If one takes a broader survey of religious expression than the Abrahamic faiths, it is rather clear that a de-emphasis of human responsibility and autonomy are not an inevitable consequence of a belief in life after death. Rather, it is a consequence of an emphasis of that life after death over life in this world, what James C. Russell (and I believe others) categorizes as world-rejecting religions. There are a number of world-accepting religions, by contrast, that place human responsibility and autonomy as paramount yet nevertheless have strong conceptions of an afterlife. These religions disprove your hypothesis.



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Týsson

posted August 3, 2007 at 11:43 am


“The bridge collapsed because it was broken.
End of story.”

True enough. However, I think the beginnings of the story have yet to be told. Those beginnings are likely to be far more enlightening than the end. It will be a while, though, before we understand the root causes that led to this tragedy.



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Týsson

posted August 3, 2007 at 11:51 am


“until there is evidence for gods, prayer can only be construed as talking to oneself, or possibly the ceiling.”
This is far from the only way prayer can be construed based on lack of evidence. I believe this is a classic example of argumentum ad ignorantiam.



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Paul of Potomac

posted August 3, 2007 at 1:31 pm


May also suggest a provocative novel “The Bridge of San Luis Rey” by Thornton Wilder who wrote a fictional account about victims crossing a bridge that collapses in Peru. The novel explores some of these theological questions. It also won the Putlitzer Prize in 1927. http://www.tcnj.edu/~wilder/works/bridge.html



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Rich

posted August 3, 2007 at 1:57 pm


It’s this kind of writing that spreads ignorance.
Religion and beliefs are supposed to help people, not keep them in the dark ages.
I came to this page by mistake. If there was a God, he surely wouldn’t expect me to read this unrational babbling.
I must go now.



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sean

posted August 3, 2007 at 2:01 pm


As a nurse aid i see suffering and death quite often. Can’t the purpose possibly be to draw closer to God and each other? To see and be apart of the love is what i think it’s all about.



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Timbo

posted August 3, 2007 at 2:31 pm


c kitty says: “Whether to believe in God or not is always a choice, not a conclusion compelled by evidence. And that is the point.”
But what is “the point,” exactly? That one should disregard evidence and choose to believe whatever one wants? That’s fantastic. I choose to believe that I can turn Milk Duds into gold. I’ve tried it hundreds of times, and it’s never worked. But I’m not going to let “evidence” weaken my belief. I know it’s true. Yippee, I’m rich!
I don’t want to be mean, c kitty, because you seem like a nice person (I like the way you stuck up for Tee, even though I’m not sure Tee deserves it).
I live about three miles from that bridge too, and I still can’t believe what happened. But I know better than to look to a god for an explanation. This horrible accident was a random event, with utterly mundane and explicable causes. And the living and the dead were separated by mere chance.
If we want to draw lessons that we can apply to our own lives, there are probably many. One of them is that life is precious and fragile, so we should savor it and be kind to each other. That seems clear enough, and you don’t need any help from god to learn that lesson.
And a note about lessons: I hope nobody is self-centered enough to suggest that god causes a catastrophe like this so that we can all learn a lesson (“It’s a shame that all those people had to die, but I sure learned something valuable….”). A god who chooses death and suffering as his preferred method of communication is worthy of our scorn, not our praise.
A tragedy like this happens and believers tie themselves in knots trying to explain why, trying to make these awful events fit within the framework of their faith. The sheer effort that believers have to spend on these explanations — it’s staggering. And it’s revealing.



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Chuck Cosimano

posted August 3, 2007 at 2:59 pm


Nonsense. Utter nonsense.



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c kitty

posted August 3, 2007 at 3:52 pm


To just utter “nonsense” is utter nonsense, Chuck. Admit it — you left yourself open for that one.
Citizen — no, faith is not a way of “knowing” in my way of thinking. It’s more like accepting without verficalbe, perceptual “knowing”. Although I am a very practical, logical person, I don’t limit my world to just what is logical and practical because, frankly, that could get boring.My right brain wants more than that, it wants to think about possiblities, things that might be outside our usual perceptions. All I can attest to is that myu decision to believe in God, both in the sense of existence and acceptance of what he would seen to want in my life, He has apparently rewarded my magnimously.
Timbo — I have no idea why God would allow or cause this bridge to fall of if He did. I’m not smart enough to figure out God’s thinking on such things.



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Ms K

posted August 3, 2007 at 8:52 pm


I REALLY BELIEVE THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS THE WRONG FOCUS ALTOGETHER. THE ONLY WAY THAT’S GOING TO CHANGE IS IF WE CHANGE OUR FOCUS TOO.
WE NEED TO PULL OUT OF IRAQ AND TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN CITIZENS AND THAT’S NOT WHAT’S HAPPENING…
IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL TO SEE THAT HAPPEN, AND TO SEE THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION DEDICATE SOME TIME AND FUNDING TO PAYING FOR THE FUNERAL AND MEDICAL EXPENSES OF THE DISASTER VICTIMS’ FAMILIES.
MAYBE THEN WE CAN ALSO PROTECT AND NURTURE NEW ORLEANS AS WELL.
ISN’T IT ALARMING TO SEE SO MANY DISASTERS OCCURRING RECENTLY? PRAY FOR PRIORITIES. PRAY FOR GOOD CITIZENSHIP.
THAT IS MY ADVICE. THAT IS MY INTENTION…



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tee

posted August 4, 2007 at 2:14 am


Hello to day this is tee nice to be back on here. i hope to here from dorothy and c. kitty. just to say keep praying!



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tee

posted August 4, 2007 at 2:52 am


peter ramsay you are a encourager keep preaching! sandra preach! anyways there is evidence that there is a God look at nature look at everything who could have made us know one but God that’s the end of that. the book of genesis talks about the beginning of creation. read it and i guaranteed you your life and soul on it the bible is real God is who he say he is. that’s final. whoever rejects faith in God don’t believe in hi that’s impossible. without faith works are dead. you say you know faith when you don’t believe that’s foolishness. not to be funny whoever says they dont’ believe in God and don’t believe thereis a God is a fool point blank they can argue that to the grave and God love them still right to hell. unless they repent and accept christ into their hearts.anyway’s just expressing what i believe.



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Judy

posted August 4, 2007 at 10:27 am


How can you come to the conclusion that we were not made to die? The nature of life is change. All things eventually return to the earth, until they manifest again in a new life. Death is as much a part of life as life.



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LOU

posted August 4, 2007 at 3:25 pm


The bible says when you see all these things happening, look up for your redemption draweth night. Our Lord and Saviour is trying to tell us all something. Get right, get right, get right so we can all go to live with him when we die and none of us have an assurance of tomorrow. Our tomorrow may be today. I always did say, when He is ready for us, no matter where we are, we are going. I think that bridge in Minnesota is such a sad thing. I cry every time I look at the news. It is frightening not to know when it will be our time. These precious people were just tending to their own business, not hurting anyone, and boom, today was their day. The bible says, It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment. I just pray that everyone will make sure their sins are forgiven and they are doing their best to live the kind of life that is pleasing to God. People try to be people pleasers, but I recommen pleasing our Heavenly Father as that is the only thing that will be worth it in the end. May you be blessed today and always as I truly care.



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Lady Anon

posted August 5, 2007 at 12:19 am


David Kuo,
You are so right, death was never God’s intention for us.
I had never made the connection though between our instinctive response to death (mourning)and this truth.
I’m sure many of us are not die hard fans of actors,musicians and other public people and yet when you hear that one has died there is a sense that we, as human beings have lost a light that is a part of us all whether we knew that person or not. It is the same in these disasters, though you don’t know the people who died in Minneapolis, or New Orleans their deaths are felt keenly as a lost.
May Christ our God have mercy on us and save us all.



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tee

posted August 5, 2007 at 4:29 am


lou preach! you are so right no day is promise to us. taht is so right when God is ready whether we like it are not. we need just to be ready and prepared so when he calls us we will be caught without spot wrinkle or blemish. that’s right please God and don’t be people pleasers. you are encouraging me in that area. thank you lou. God bless you too, and everyone on here love, and prayers.



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tee

posted August 6, 2007 at 2:57 am


hello everyone its a beautiful day! thankGod for eachday of our lives. God bless love,tee



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