J Walking

J Walking


Open letter to James Dobson and Chuck Colson

posted by J-Walking

Dear Dr. Dobson and Mr. Colson,

I note with some interest that you have continued to comment on my proposal for a temporary fast from politics. Unfortunately, your comments have fantastically misrepresented my position. Chuck, here is what you wrote in The New York Times:

David Kuo cites the idea that evangelical Christians take a two-year fast from politics (‘Putting Faith Before Politics,’ Op-Ed, Nov. 16). Hmmm. What would have happened if Christians over the last two years had taken a leave of absence from politics? Here’s what would not have happened:The Bush administration would not have taken on the issue of slavery in Sudan, AIDS in Africa or global sexual trafficking. We wouldn’t have seen Congress pass a ban on ”partial birth” abortions or take on prison rape and prisoner rehabilitation, or highlight the horrors of persecution in North Korea. And what about Christians in public office? Leaders like Sam Brownback and Frank Wolf, who have risked their lives to go to troubled spots of the world to protect human rights and human dignity, would have just stayed home. Christians should be engaged in public life as instruments of justice and righteousness. A two-year fast? No thanks.

And Jim, here is part of what you said on Larry King Live:

Then finally — finally — what’s he do? He says that values voters should take two years off. To whom would you say that, other than evangelicals? Would you say that to homosexuals? Would you say that to feminists? Would you say that to Jews? Would you say that to African-Americans? Just don’t care about your issues for the next two years. That is nonsense, and I can’t figure out why the guy wrote the book except maybe to make some quick bucks.

What is abundantly clear is that you have either never read what I wrote in Tempting Faith or that you have chosen to ignore it, distort it, and try to caricature it in such a way as to demean the idea.

To make it easier for you, here is a quick synopsis of my argument:

1. Our hope, as Christians, will never be found in an oval office, on a judicial bench, or in a legislative body. Our hope is found in Jesus.
2. Jesus’ name is being destroyed in the name of partisan politics such that people now identify him more with issues like abortion and gay marriage and with wickedly partisan attacks than they do with the Good News.
3. Politicians use Christian voters for their money and for their votes and do not much care about their agenda. Becoming captive to any political party is a mistake because no captive has a powerful voice.
4. Perhaps it is time for Christians to take a temporary “fast” from politics, which means that they use their time, money, and attention for the hands-on work Jesus calls Christians to perform, humble themselves before God, put the politicians on their heels, and display to all Americans that Jesus is more important than the next political race.
5. The fast, however, does not mean politicians should leave office, staff should leave jobs, or anyone should stop voting. That sounds like anarchy. One doesn’t fast from things that are evil; one fasts from things that are good but that need to be brought under control, under God’s control.
6. Out of this fast several things might happen — millions of Americans might actually take a second look at Jesus and give him a new chance, all of those “Christian” political leaders we’ve elected over the past few decades might actually stand up and become better leaders, and everyone might return to the political arena with a clearer perspective on the values that matter most.

Jim, Chuck, I welcome an honest debate or a discussion on these points, but also ask that you cease misrepresenting what I have written. Because what I find most alarming about your comments is that you both seem either incapable or unwilling to examine matters of faith because of how they might harm your political positions.

Sincerely,

David Kuo



Advertisement
Comments read comments(56)
post a comment
Will Hinton

posted November 30, 2006 at 1:26 pm


David: Before your clarification today, I didn’t disagree with Colson or Dobson (at least on the issue for your call for a “fast”). There is much that I agree with in your points. I have a similar background and disenchantment with the Religious Right, so I know where you are coming from. I did take a long break from any involvement in political activism in order to get my priorities straight. I am now much more involved in politics but with a renewed perspective. So what would a fast from politics look like? What activities do you see as being ones that Christians should step back from? Do you suggest that everyone should or just those that have lost sight of their true allegiance? My extended break from politics taught me to distinguish between TRUTH and truth. While I am still a staunch capitalist, I will go only so far to defend capitalism. I would love to see the Christian community especially conservatives step up to help those in poverty so much that it started to become obvious that there was less for government to do.Peace to you my friend!



report abuse
 

Tom Masiero

posted November 30, 2006 at 2:09 pm


Hi David, I have read your book and followed your blog for the past 1.5 months. Your thoughts are so on point w/ my own. I am relatively new in my walk (2 years) and I am still inspired to walk w/ Jesus. I love how you always make him first. This will resonate w/ people. Keep fighting the good fight. I listened to the James Dobson interview w/ Larry King last week as well and I kept saying to myself where is his compassion? He is so blinded by those 2 polarizing issues that he has truly lost focus on what is important. God Bless, Tom



report abuse
 

Tenoch

posted November 30, 2006 at 5:41 pm


Thank you, David Kuo, for your commitment to truth, no matter how politically-incorrect it is. That Dobson and Colson stoop to the level of misrepresenting the position of their “opponent” is quite telling and just sad. Dobson and Colson are the face of modern-day sophistry. I don’t recall Jesus being too patient with these types.Best of luck, David.



report abuse
 

glenn

posted November 30, 2006 at 8:19 pm


David, Thank you for responding to your critics in a clarifying, non-vindictive manor. I love the book and could not agree more with the summary. These hyper-political Christian leaders have been giving Christians and the church a bad name for a long time. I would suspect that for most of them, their motivation is pure, though, I wish they would wake up and grasp the effect of their words to the masses. Christians are seen hate mongers and the Christian right is disdained and feared by a majority of our population. Their message is one-sided about what is wrong, what is perceived as a threat to our lifestyle and what makes us uncomfortable. Abortion and homosexual behavior were around in the first century Roman Empire. Yet, Jesus and the early church leaders chose to simply be good citizens and to be the good news to people however they could. Our evangelical leaders got lost in the battle and mired in politics. I wish there was as much zeal for representing Christ in a manner true to his own character.



report abuse
 

Zero-Equals-Infinity

posted December 1, 2006 at 3:56 am


“By their works you will know them.” Though with Chuck Colson and James Dobson it might just as easily read: “By their words you will know them.”



report abuse
 

ATexanButSane

posted December 1, 2006 at 6:22 am


If Attending Church meant worshipping along-side people like you folks, my family would try –yet again– to find the right church. As it currently stands, we avoid churches in order to avoid people who use “Christianity” for all the wrong reasons: to identify who they should hate, judge, and feel superior to. In my daily life, I’m deeply troubled by “devout Christians” who Pour fouled motor oil into the gutter with a clear conscious, Laugh at Al Gore’s compelling glacial photos supporting Global Warming, Think yelling the “n” word and brandishing hanging nooses (in conjunction with the confederate flag) doesn’t make you a racist or diminish your Christianity, and seem to Care nothing about the debt and polluted world they are leaving to their supposedly beloved grandkids.The Bible is so clear on so many issues, and Serving Only One God is one of those clear issues; yet some “devout Christians” (in our lives) would faithfully vote for an ax-murderer as long as he claimed to be a “Republican”. I applaud all your efforts, David Kuo. Your book and continued emphasis on the Truth will help to purify both political parties.



report abuse
 

Donny Pauling

posted December 1, 2006 at 7:56 am


My opinion on the abortion issue: It is ridiculous to vote for a candidate based on his/her stance on abortion. Why? Consider this – a Republican President was in office when abortion was made legal. Republicans have held office more than 20 total years since it was made legal. Please name the Republican that has done anything worthwhile about the issue… Republicans use this issue to pus the hot buttons of Christians, then forget about the issue until it’s time for re-election.



report abuse
 

Ali

posted December 1, 2006 at 8:23 am


Thank you David for thinking critically unlike so many others. By others I mean cookie cutter Christians because they want everyone to think and be the same and don’t question. God blessed us with brains. I prefer to question and make up my own mind and not be told what to think. Thank you for trying to enlighten.



report abuse
 

Frank

posted December 1, 2006 at 3:18 pm


Politics, close relationships, alliances, business, etc. may all be reasons for the fair amount of reticence in your idea to fast from the current political process, David. However, it really boils down to uneasiness or an uncomfortability pertaining to big matters, the large chunks and structures that shape our society, which people cling to for direction, meaning and so-called substance. You see when a Different way of life is mentioned people tense up. Even if that Different way of life is a temporary exercise of our morality. You can’t get into these debates with the figure heads who represent these big structures because these notable personalities live off of the institutional vernacular. It’s a very powerful product and they live off its clout. The way I would tell people about your idea is to simply ask the question, “Is it not only my unalienable right but a quality and responsible exercise to change and alter my lifestyle for the good?” In other words, “As long as I obey the law and pay my taxes, who other than God should judge my sincere and genuine attempt to seek a different expression of a moral and principled life?” Groups have been doing that for centuries and centuries, and not just in America. The Amish, for instance?



report abuse
 

Robb Pearson

posted December 1, 2006 at 6:15 pm


Excellent letter David. Dobson and Colson have only started to whip and beat you. But don’t worry. The crown of thorns is next.



report abuse
 

laura

posted December 1, 2006 at 8:27 pm


As a gay Christian, welcome to our world. And by that I mean, the terrible twosome have been distorting scripture, statistics, and science for years to villify homosexuals. And now they are distorting facts about you. When will people stop listening to these clowns? Nothing they say resembles fact.



report abuse
 

James Hukari

posted December 1, 2006 at 8:27 pm


David,Thank you for your courage. What Christians really need is a fast from Dobson and Colson. Colson is actually one of my heros, but it looks like he’s back to his old White House ways. Jim Hukari



report abuse
 

Lisa

posted December 1, 2006 at 8:28 pm


SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!! Don’t force your religion or beliefs on anyone.



report abuse
 

Mark Raven

posted December 1, 2006 at 8:57 pm


James Dobson and Charles Colson value only money and power. For Mr. Dobson and Mr. Colson, the professed belief in a religion of their choosing is a means by which each has been able to gain said money and power. Never met God myself. However, as I recall, the Bible told me that Jesus Christ wasn’t exactly a guy with offshore tithe accounts, multiple mangers, luxury oxen, and hacks all running around screaming “Death Tax!” Mr. Dobson and Mr. Colson, however, possess a myriad of homes, offshore bank accounts, luxury cars, and a strong affinity for abolishing the estate tax. Until, Mr. Kuo, you acknowledge these basic facts, your argument remains pointless. I believe the term is calling a spade a spade and a hypocrite a hypocrite. Wish you well.



report abuse
 

Dana Curtis Kincaid

posted December 1, 2006 at 9:17 pm


Wow… As another gay Christian – who daily sees his faith badly tested by the lack of God’s Spirit in people who claim to support and represent the Church, thanks for the excellent open letter. “It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.” -Lazarus Long, Time Enough for Love – Robert Heinlein



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 1, 2006 at 9:17 pm


Kuo ~ you and your sycophants on this thread are such phonies! Nothing Colson or Dobson said is inaccurate, you are simply unwilling to take ownership of the ramifications of your own nonsense. Only those whose values are inimical to those of people of faith will be approved for judgeships and positions of leadership now that the secular-progressives are in control of Congress. There will be no room to do anything but genuflect to the anti-Christian (ACLU), pro-abortion and pro-gay agenda for at least the next two years and you can take a bow for the role you played in all that. Your pseudo-pious arguments stem from your own problems and unachieved expectations and now you want to avoid ownership of your ungodly temper tantrum (“… I just want the Christians to know that George Bush isn’t Jesus”, what a messed up arrogant, patronizing, condescending thing to say) and your self-righteous book. I have no doubt you are a devout Christian yourself, but you are willfully blind and a coward for not seeing the truth in yourself and what you have said and written.



report abuse
 

MBunge

posted December 1, 2006 at 9:42 pm


“There will be no room to do anything but genuflect to the anti-Christian (ACLU), pro-abortion and pro-gay agenda for at least the next two years and you can take a bow for the role you played in all that.” Exactly WHAT do you think would happen in two years if Christians decided to take a “fast” from politics, as Mr. Kuo suggests? What sort of paranoid dystopia is it that you’re so afraid of, that you believe Republican exploitation of Christian faith is essential to prevent? Mike



report abuse
 

Frank

posted December 1, 2006 at 9:48 pm


How many years now has it been en vogue to align one’s political message with Jesus? Perspective can be wholly lost in literally a matter of one or two seconds, Dennis – particularly with this period of time we live in today. Do you not see this truth and trend? It’s not about being offensive, at the very minimum it’s about helping people notice the constant barrage of hyperbole. George Bush is not Jesus and even more importantly, he’s not Presidential, nor much of a statesman. He’s a business man that has grown up in a Texas dreamworld.



report abuse
 

The Old Infidel

posted December 1, 2006 at 10:16 pm


“I have no doubt you are a devout Christian yourself, but you are willfully blind and a coward for not seeing the truth in yourself and what you have said and written. Dennis Castle” Ah, so Mr. Kuo is not mistaken or even just plain wrong he’s “willfully blind and a coward”. ‘And the’ll know, we are Chris-tians by our love!, by our love! Yes the’ll know-oh we are Christians by our love!’



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 1, 2006 at 10:40 pm


Old Infidel ~ so, what is your point? Frank ~ I get it, you don’t like the President. Mike ~ the damage has been done with the last election and David Kuo has achieved his objective. We are now at the mercy of the “hate-America” and despise-people-of-faith crowd.



report abuse
 

CP

posted December 1, 2006 at 10:40 pm


It’s such a pathetic, weaselly, Stalinistic thing to do – to not simply disagree with their arguments, or argue back, but to say they never (and deliberately never) understood you in the first place. You are displacing the dispute over the issues onto a dispute over comprehension. Not fun. Nor fair. Nor honest. Just pathetic and creepy.



report abuse
 

MBunge

posted December 1, 2006 at 10:50 pm


“Mike ~ the damage has been done with the last election and David Kuo has achieved his objective. We are now at the mercy of the “hate-America” and despise-people-of-faith crowd.” Wow. I fully admit to being neither as learned nor as good a Christian as I should be…but I don’t think Jesus wants us to go through life with our hearts full of fear and loathing for our fellow man. I wonder, Mr. Castle, if you realize that you may be exactly the sort of Christian who is mocked and belittled by Republican political operatives, because you make it perfectly clear that as long as they can scare you with one boogeyman or another, you’ll always fall into line and do what they want you to do. Mike



report abuse
 

Frank

posted December 2, 2006 at 12:31 am


Dennis – I think the President is probably a very nice man in mixed company. I’m sure he’s a very polite man more often than not. But he’s not Presidential and if you don’t see this than I’m sorry for you.



report abuse
 

not relevant here

posted December 2, 2006 at 1:27 am


FYI, David, your bullet points (1-6) don’t show up when I look at the page in Firefox (1.0.7 on XP); looks fine in IE 6.0. You might want to check with the Beliefnet techies.



report abuse
 

Robb Pearson

posted December 2, 2006 at 1:51 am


What was I saying about that crown of thorns?



report abuse
 

barbara

posted December 2, 2006 at 1:55 am


I am so glad you and others are not backing down from these people. The Dobsons , Colsons, Fallwells of this country preach hatred and manipulate people into voting THEIR agenda while picking their pockets…..very un Christian. The more we talk about this the better.Please don’t get discouraged.



report abuse
 

Loren

posted December 2, 2006 at 2:25 am


Mike, Nice catch. At least most Dems are honest with the religious right. We don’t like your positions on gay rights, abortion rights, etc., we don’t think your behavior is particularly Christian, so don’t count on our support. If you want to support the first constitutional amendement to LIMIT freedom since prohibition, support a ban on gay marriage, but count me out. Honesty is still a virtue, no? The Republicans will continue to patronize these folks during campaigns and ignore them after they vote. Or perhaps some Republicans will grow a spine and tell folks like Falwell and Robertson that its not okay (or Christian) to use Jesus’ name to judge people who don’t do life the way they do.



report abuse
 

anon2

posted December 2, 2006 at 4:27 am


My reading of Colson’s criticism of your position (as described in your synopsis) doesn’t seem misleading at all.1) Our hope is found in Jesus: Fine. Jesus is the answer. But what’s a christian to do in a democratic country? Pardon me if the answer “Jesus” seems a teeny bit trite.2) Jesus’ name is being destroyed in the name of abortion? Do you mean we should hide the implications of the christian worldview in order to hook the secularist? That seems a bit dishonest to me. Are all people, regardless of race, devolpmental status, etc…. worthy of respect and protection by the rule of law? My belief’s say yes. Should I “fast” from this? Should MLK have backed off because racist secularists were turned off by his melding of religion and politics? Of course not.3) Oh? Who exactly? Sam Brownback? Name names. Tell me who these politicians are so that I don’t mistakenly give them my support. Is it Bush, Rove, Frist, Graham? Do tell…. 4) What a silly either or. I tithe and financially support “politicians” I believe on balance support positions more consisitent with my positions than their opponnents. Does that make me in need of “humbling myself” before god more than I already do? Is support for politicians that take an active stance against “slavery in Sudan, Aids in Africa and global sex traficking” contrary to hands on work jesus calls on his followers to perform? Would an attempt to protect the unborn be something Jesus would support? My guess is yes. Are you confident enough that the answer is no, that you will support a party that refuses to make room for dissent on this subject? 5) Ok, so I don’t write checks, and…6) Ok, so I don’t change my job or voting pattern, but I don’t write as many checks (as bounded by point 5. Now suddenly, the lost will fall in love in Jesus? What nonsense! I thought Jesus said someting abount all those the Father had given him would come., etc… (see John 6-10).David, your request for “honest” debate is horribly condescending. The problem is that your positions are incoherent, your theology is sloppy, and your politics are extraordinarily naive.



report abuse
 

Cynthia Guggemos

posted December 2, 2006 at 4:33 am


Dear Mr Kuo, In the past few years I had begun to think that if anyone asked me if I were Christian I would have to say “no.” The term had been so distorted by the likes of Dobson and Colson that I didn’t want to be identified with it. Thank you for standing up and witnessing to the truths of the Sermon on the Mount and the parable of the Sheep and the Goats. I wish Dobson and Colson would read Will Campbell’s “Brother To a Dragonfly”, and Vachel Lindsays “General William Booth Marches Into Heaven.” Anyway, thanks for your witness. Keep the lamp shining.



report abuse
 

Kevin Young

posted December 2, 2006 at 5:36 am


Amen, David you are quickly becoming a major hero of mine. Praise god you have the courage to stand in your position, and to do your own best to represent Christ (as all believers should!)



report abuse
 

Rose

posted December 2, 2006 at 4:40 pm


“THE POLITICAL SALOON” The truth is (Mr. Dobson, Mr. Colson, Mr. Robertson, Mr. Falwell)cannot take a fast from politics. They won’t even try to take a tiny step back for reflection. No, it’s full speed ahead because they are, in fact, addicted. Not to WINE, but to POWER. The intoxicating effects have blinded them to the truth. Its seducing power has clouded and impaired their judgments totally. They drink daily at the “Political Saloon” where lies, mistruths,distortions and prejudices are all served up in heaping quantities. The Saloon is open 24/7. It never closes. Happy hour is every hour. Their foolish drunkenness makes them do and say things publicly that embarrass and humiliate the rest of us. Sometimes you just want to cringe. But sadly they are too drunk to see this for themselves. Their literal coronation of George Bush as LORD is beyond shameful. They sell their own souls and that of the Gospel just to get a brief phone call from the almighty Karl Rove. (their beloved) But the real tragedy is the endless supply of toxic political cocktails they serve up to their followers. (I know, I was one of them.) However, what they don’t want to talk about is that they are LOSING followers. (Like me and many others.) You DO have to go through a detox period. And there are withdrawal symtoms and you question yourself, but if you can get through this initial period…you will come out feeling totally cleansed and free and GOOD!! The “REAL” Gospel emerges again and it is even more beautiful than before. I thank GOD for people such as David Kuo, John Damforth and Rick Warren who are not afraid to speak the truth. “The truth shall set you free” has never been more true than it has for me. I love Rick Warren’s statment about how “laws” will not change one single heart. However, when I see these so-called Evangelical leaders reduce our “Lord and Savior” to nothing but a dirty wedge issue to garner a few more votes, as a Christian, I want to vomit. Tragically they are mired in a political cesspool where POWER reigns and POWER rules!! And where Truth and Peace and Love and Respect for ALL people are now distant and fleeting for them. And when they, stagger in their drunkenness, to try and grab on to one of them, it is like grasping at the wind….



report abuse
 

Gary Schneeberger

posted December 2, 2006 at 5:06 pm


Alas, David, no one is misrepresenting your position. I have read your book — and the way Dr. Dobson and Chuck Colson have characterized your position is dead-on. As is the way I have encapsulated it in a column I wrote for my publication: http://www.citizenlink.org/clcommentary/A000003272.cfm



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 2, 2006 at 8:43 pm


Mike wrote: I wonder, Mr. Castle, if you realize that you may be exactly the sort of Christian who is mocked and belittled by Republican political operatives … Mike ~ what you and David Kuo fail to grasp is that I (and those like me) couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of us, we aren’t ruled by your slavish devotion to ego and power (which a first year psychology student could tell was David Kuo’s true motivation for all this, it’s his jealousy and wounded pride). We only care about our culture and heritage being manipulated by those who despise our faith and traditions. We care if a child is slain the moment before it is born, we care if the UN is going to have a veto over our nations security and if our soldiers will be handed over to the ICC. The next judicial appointment is what most of us involved in politics have been striving for since Roe vs Wade, and now that the Senate is controlled by the Democrats we have to hold our breath hoping there isn’t a vacancy on the Supreme Court for the next two years. Of course, smug Mr. Kuo can bask in the glory of playing a role in defeating those he believes hurt his feelings. I wonder how that stacks up with the impact on the unborn, our national security, taxation, the ungodly march of the ACLU, etc.



report abuse
 

Andy

posted December 3, 2006 at 4:13 am


Dennis ~”We only care about our culture and heritage being manipulated by those who despise our faith and traditions.” You said it. I was in South Africa in 1989 and could imagine the Afrikaaners saying the same thing. They were so concerned about the changes in South Africa affecting their security, finances and way of life that they couldn’t acknowledge the obvious: they were wrong. Many bad things have happened in South Africa since the fall of Apartheid — hey, they recently legalized gay marriage, and the crime rate is stunning. Is all this the result of justice or the result of years of oppression after the controlling hand is removed? Would you prefer apartheid? Or do you even care about Africa aside from a) its affect on the US economy and b) its backing for US positions at the UN? You say you’re deeply concerned about the unborn, but are you concerned about the living?Needless to say, I can’t see any affection or concern toward Jesus in your posts. In that sense, despite all your words and attacks, you fail to address the main point that David Kuo has raised. Rather you exemplify it.



report abuse
 

TheCardinal

posted December 3, 2006 at 4:34 am


The prospect of abstaining from politics strikes me as absurd or even Randian. Maybe we can gather together in the Midwest dig a huge moat and put up walls that scrape the heavens? I don’t see why we can’t follow our Lord and Saviour as well as participate in the political process. I am in this country because too many people abstained from it in my parent’s homeland. I will never take these freedoms or rights for granted nor will I fail to excercise them. What has not been mentioned in any post is that Mr. Kuo’s idea is hardly novel. 1999 saw both Cal Thomas’ book Blinded by Might and to a lesser extent Paul Weyrich “Letter to Conservatives” call for the same thing. As opposed to abstaining perhaps keeping our passions in check should count. There is something to be said for speaking softly and carrying a big stick.



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 3, 2006 at 6:06 am


Andy ~ South Africa is a Hellhole and it has everything to do with its leadership and little to do with past Apartheid (compare it to the rest of the continent). They rape infants not just because they are ignorant but because their souls are numb and you want to blame someone other than the perpetrators. Sorry you don’t see Jesus in what I’m writing but I’m not trying to manipulate you into acquiescing to my point of view, I’m trying to open the eyes of the duped on this thread to the reality of David Kuo’s nonsense. I’ll acknowledge your condescension and reply that “yes, I do care about the living”. Now, Mr. Love Africa, do you think that America is going to raise a finger to help out the Christians being raped and slaughtered by the Muslims in Darfur by the tens of thousands now that the Democrats are throwing our military under the bus? Did you read today that the Democrats want to defund our missile defense system just in time for North Korea’s entry in the nuclear club? Does anyone on this thread think that the recent election has anything to do with all of this? I know, let’s all take a vacation from supporting those who promote our concerns and values and write a blog about how much holier we are than James Dobson and Chuck Colson!



report abuse
 

Andy

posted December 3, 2006 at 11:11 am


Dennis – It’s impossible to have a dialogue with someone full of spite who really can’t listen. Your blog is an endless sermon with no evidence that you’re learning anything, only that you constantly and endlessly confirm and reconfirm your own opinions. And your opinions about politics and history are not put in a way to invite discussion, so I won’t, anymore than I’d want to continue a discussion with someone at Kos. I’m sorry if I condescended to you. I honestly think that many Christians fool themselves into thinking their religion and religious work/worship is still about Jesus, when in fact it’s not.



report abuse
 

Donny

posted December 3, 2006 at 2:37 pm


David, You could be a slick huckster. Abortion and gay marriage are core issues that affect the very heart of our society: CHILDREN!If the family is not important to you, then YOU take a fast from politics. Instead, you say one thing and do another.Colson and Dobson are fighting for the rights of innocent people harmed by the leftist, liberal-progressive belief-system. It is every bit as much a religion as Hinduism. You “seem” to be supporting the “the left” by obviously knowing, that if they are not spot-lighted and opposed, they will take over our very society. How many more people have to die under the wheels of hedonism spawned by liberalism? You tell me who and what should be opposing “the left” and for how long? “IT” is not taking a fast for even a second. I support Dobson and especially Colson, far more than I do your aims and goals. From your cushy office in DC, how many people’s lives did you try to change? Colson is IN prisons reaching out to the prisoners. Dobson is IN the families reaching the future. Good day David.



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 3, 2006 at 4:34 pm


Andy ~ as you have written, I confess that I confirm and reconfirm my opinions. I invite you or anyone to show where my opinions are in error. And here is my opinion: you, Kuo, and his groupies on this thread are self-righteous, self-absorbed phonies congratulating yourselves on our holy you can sound while comparing yourselves to those of us in the trenches trying to rescue our society from the agenda of the Democrats. That agenda includes abortion on demand to the day of birth, the re-defining of the concept of family where parents have decreasing say over the welfare of their children while Hillary’s “village” has ever more, where our military is marginalized to European levels and we are equally incapable of defending ourselves against the terrorists without the authorization of the United Nations, where prohibitive taxation removes entrepreneurial initiative, where the ACLU dictates what god-forsaken NAMBLA or transgendered rights should now take precedence over our own, where we all end up having to ask the governments permission to live our lives as we choose because they know what is best. David Kuo convinced who knows how many that we should step back and let those people take over Congress and he succeeded. Now, like the coward he is, he wants to deny ownership of his actions when Colson and Dobson call him out for it.



report abuse
 

Frank

posted December 3, 2006 at 5:43 pm


Dennis – our country has had 6 years with Bush and HIS party in office. OUR country has had enough and they wanted them out. It’s as simple as that and not so much about opportunisitc Dem advocates, as you point out. The Constituion insures that we have President’s who serve terms not rulers or groups who reign. It’s this mixture of opinion between groups that allowed Bush and HIS party to be elected in the first place. Now things have changed, don’t hate the player, hate the game. Whether you agree with Kuo or not, isn’t it a basic Chrisitan principle to respect one’s conscience, especially if David Kuo equally pronounces both his convictions AND confessions? Look at the pathological anger and animosity various human beings have for one another today. The first bridge to peace, diplomacy and restoration is not retribution. At the very least it’s about seeking a dialogue, forward thinking communication – despite stark differences in opinioin. And if we’re not motivated as American’s to seek common ground amongst ourselves then what kind of people are we?



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 3, 2006 at 8:10 pm


Frank ~ far be it from me to argue against anyone s right to say or write whatever they want. I love our democracy and have no problem losing an election. I enjoy a spirited debate and admire a well-explained point of view even (sometimes especially) when it diverges from my own. However Kuo is cheating. He is whining because Colson and Dobson called him out for the ramifications of all his interviews and his book and thinks he should be immune.



report abuse
 

Frank

posted December 3, 2006 at 9:01 pm


You may enjoy a “spirited” debate and a “well” explained point of view in theory Dennis. What person with above avg. intelligence doesn’t enjoy those things in a debate? But you’re not moving the conversation anywhere by just hanging around and picking at David Kuo as if all he aims to do is agitate you and Chuck Colson’s worldview. The operative word here Dennis is depth. At the very least respect the depth that most of us on here already posses, regardless of her or his political lean. Furthermore, it’s not worth the time and energy to sit around and stubbornly tread on each other all day. Stop repeating yourself, we know you strongly disagree. There’s no misunderstanding there. Before you even begin to engage in a blog forum that is contrary to your beliefs, you should know that the best use of time is simply observing and learning about the other side. From what I can tell you’re much more of an ideologue than you are someone genuinely curious about seeking a moral middle and/or a common ground dialogue.



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 3, 2006 at 10:47 pm


Frank ~ all I am trying to say here is that David Kuo played as large a role as he possibly could swaying the last election on behalf of the secular-progressives and now is throwing a tantrum when he’s being recognized for it. We at least need to agree that is the point of contention.



report abuse
 

Frank

posted December 3, 2006 at 11:25 pm


Dennis, Bill O’Reily or whoever uses “secular-progressive” to describe a group of people is using a phrase that is on its face a loaded term. I don’t even care to hear the rational because it’s intentionally used to bait others into moral/cultural nuances. The very last thing we need is to continue to label and package cultures and/or morality. About the term “secular-progressive” Faithful people, regardless if they are religious, spiritual or otherwise, believe in a progressive society. Of course not all, but many non-religious, non-spiritual folks can be very positive, progressive and faithful people. Truth be known, most of us in this country ARE SECULAR BUT NOT REAL PROGRESSIVE. Many would claim just the opposite however. These so called secular-progressives did not win this election for Bush. He and his party lost it for themselves. In other words, the other party did not need the Bush haters, which you and others seem to think are these so called secular-progressives. Bush and his party spun out of control because they’re power hungry screw ups. Good for Kuo and others who revealed this for everyone.



report abuse
 

Frank

posted December 3, 2006 at 11:29 pm


slight correction – meant to say “these so called secular-progressives did not win this election for the DEMS.” I’m guessing you could figure out that this is what i meant



report abuse
 

johnsnakecusak

posted December 4, 2006 at 12:50 am


Your points are all well expressed and make perfect sense. You have convinced me to read your book. I do maintain though, that what is needed is for the Christian movement to take a permanent sabbatical from Politics. Render Unto Ceasar that which is of Ceasar. Vote for Governance.



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 4, 2006 at 1:21 am


Frank ~ please do not think I am trying to rationalize the last election, I’m simply saying the David Kuo did everything he could to make sure the bad guys won, and they did. And now instead of taking a victory bow he’s trying to use “holy-speak” to convince Christians that Dobson and Colson are wrong in their accurate view of him. You may have noticed I had a list of things I opposed written at least in 5 different posts on this thread, so instead of going over them again I simply wrote “secular progressive”. The term progressive is the new way to say Liberal these days. And please note that secular in this idiom does not mean “neutral” or even “non-religious”, secular means “anti-tradition” or “anti-family” and definitely “anti-God”. That is where David Kuo hung his hat in the last election. Now he wants to weasel his way out. Unfortunately for him we’ve all read his book and seen his interviews. He was patronizing and arrogant, condescending to Christians in general and Evangelicals in particular, smarmy on the Colbert Report, self-righteous on Bill Maher’s show and now cowardly by pretending the consequences of his statements can’t be attributed to him.



report abuse
 

god-is-in-the-tv

posted December 4, 2006 at 6:51 pm


I’m simply saying the David Kuo did everything he could to make sure the bad guys won, and they did. Those “bad guys” are half the nation, and include your brothers and sisters.



report abuse
 

Tenoch

posted December 4, 2006 at 7:36 pm


Dennis Castle, The next time we need an update on smarmy self-righteousness, we’ll be sure to look your way.



report abuse
 

Rose

posted December 4, 2006 at 8:10 pm


It seems Dennis belongs to the “Church of Rush Limbaugh” instead of the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. Hence, all of his posts heaped with repeated and tired talking points. David…hang in there. You’re an excellent writer and beautiful human being. And Frank…I couldn’t TOP the posts you’ve written here. WOW!!! You can articulate things so very well. I’m so glad that people like you and David are out there. Thanks..and let’s all hang together and keep the LIGHT forever shining brightly. Peace and Love…



report abuse
 

One Salient Oversight

posted December 5, 2006 at 12:15 am

Frank

posted December 5, 2006 at 12:47 am


That’s very nice of you to say, Rose. Thank you.



report abuse
 

Mark Raven

posted December 5, 2006 at 5:14 am


Dennis, Taxation is a religious issue? Did I miss that in the Old Testament? The New Testament? Taxation as a religious issue? What’s next, SEC football and the BCS? Who writes your material?



report abuse
 

Dennis Castle

posted December 5, 2006 at 5:44 am


Raven ~ no, taxation isn’t a religious issue but it is a political, social and economic one. I mentioned that David Kuo’s views had ramifications and that Colson and Dobson correctly named a few. I’ve named others. Those views helped lead to the bad guys winning the last election. Congratulations to him.



report abuse
 

god-is-in-the-tv

posted December 5, 2006 at 1:24 pm


Who are these “bad guys” you keep talking about?



report abuse
 

Mike Edmond

posted January 2, 2007 at 4:51 am


David, What’s wrong with coming out of the closet to tell us; a) if you have been approached by the Democratic party- any Democratic leadership, etc. to take your current stances? b) what’s wrong with admitting that your swift and drastic move to the middle and left of Christian doctrine could (not saying it does- but surely possible) be influenced by the fact that you were never on the Colbert Report, never thought of for the O’Reilly Program, etc. until you decided you would take a liberal theology perspective. More people know your name now that you’ve pulled our the “poverty- de-emphasize homosexuality/ abortion card”… Hey- go ahead and attribute some of your work to Tony Campolo and Brian Maclaren too- I’m sure your weekly or monthly conference calls to get your talking points are interesting.. have a nice day >> and keep raking in that money from the book sales! MIke



report abuse
 

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.



Previous Posts

More blogs to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting J Walking . This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Inspiration Report Happy Reading!!!

posted 9:36:25am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

Dancing... or drinking through life
I am not even sure that I know how to do a link anymore. I'm giving it a shot though so, three readers, please forgive me if I mess this up. So Rod Dreher's sister is battling cancer. It is nasty. Their faith is extraordinary. Here's his latest post (I think) There are 8 comments on it. As I scrolle

posted 3:05:22pm Mar. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Back...
I'm back here at JWalking after a bit of time because I just want someplace to record thoughts from time to time. I doubt that many of the thoughts will be political - there are plenty upon plenty of people offering their opinions on everything political and I doubt that I have much to add that will

posted 10:44:56pm Mar. 01, 2010 | read full post »

Learning to tell a story
For the last ten months or so I've been engaged in a completely different world - the world of screenwriting. It began as a writing project - probably the 21st Century version of a yen to write the great American novel - a shot at a screenplay. I knew that I knew nothing about the art but was inspir

posted 8:01:41pm Feb. 28, 2010 | read full post »

And just one more
I have, I think, just one more round of chemo left. When I go through my pill popping regimen tomorrow morning it will be the last time for this particular round of drugs. Twenty-three rounds, it seems, is enough. What comes next? We'll go back to what we did after the surgery. We'll watch and measu

posted 11:38:45pm Nov. 18, 2008 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.