Jesus Needs New PR

Jesus Needs New PR


Are you a ‘Mosqueteer’? More John Stewart…

The Daily Show With Jon Stewart Mon – Thurs 11p / 10c
Extremist Makeover – Homeland Edition
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Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor Tea Party

Again, this is great.



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Jet

posted August 20, 2010 at 11:32 am


It’s difficult if not impossible to lead people to Jesus if you worship a piece of ground in NY City.

Is it considerate of Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf to put this “place of prayer” where he is, with the name “Cordoba House?” No, considering even Muslims acknowledge that “Cordoba” is a symbol of the Islamic invasion of Christianity, but I think that if they follow applicable laws then they have a right to build in peace.



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Joe Crenshaw

posted August 20, 2010 at 11:33 am


Just got back from NYC, the average New Yorker doesn’t care about this story.

There are two very skanky looking strip clubs near Ground Zero. No one has complained about them.

I’ve been to Ground Zero, I was there before the attack in 1989 . .and I was there in 2004 and went back to the same site. It’s something to see with your own eyes. You really get a sense of the devastation and the long lasting impact to folks in NYC. When you see the names of fireman who died in service on the firehouses in Manhattan, and you realize how many folks died there, how many lives were negatively impacted, it is a very sensitive thing.

I think those who are scolding folks who lost relatives on 9.11.01 need to step back a bit. Remember your own humanity, and after one of your relatives or loved ones have been cruelly murdered in cold blood, would you want reminders of that killer or those killers around?

Everyday they are reminded of that, everyday they have to deal with their loss. The people who committed the atrocities on 9.11. CLAIMED to be Muslims, and claimed to do it in the name of Islam and Al’lah.

We are currently dealing with Islamic terrorists, Islamic militants who want to obliterate everyone in this nation, we are at war right now against not only those who tote guns, and carry out attacks, but against those who preach the intolerance and violence they preach.

We have to combat those ideals, we have to combat those in action, to save this nation and our civilization.

How do we do that? With exchanging ideas in honesty and truth, by showing Muslims that tolerance is the way, that we allow all those who have faith and those who have none in our society freely and that they should as well.

I do think and I have gotten criticism for supporting the building of this mosque. I do think they should be allowed to build this mosque at the location they are authorized too.

I do think it is in piss poor taste for them to do it near Ground Zero.

But as Larry Flynt might say, “Freedom allows for bad taste.”

In return, I hope Islamic nations, allow churches, and synagogues to be build in their nations, so that we can truly have an exchange of ideas.

I do think liberals, and folks who are defending the Mosque and in support of it have to be understanding of how folks feel about this, and the “So What” reply is easy to say, when you are not dealing with an empty bed, and empty table setting, and empty desk.



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    sharideth

    posted August 20, 2010 at 11:48 am


    i liked your thoughts on this. here’s an article you might find interesting. (i posted it before but i think the thread was already past its prime)

    http://www.aifdemocracy.org/news.php?id=6131



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      Joe Crenshaw

      posted August 20, 2010 at 12:02 pm


      Sharideth,

      We have a constitution and it allows for them to build their mosque there.

      Again, get rid of the skanky strip clubs near Ground Zero or some of the backroom dealings that harmed our economy based on lies, deception and greed that occur in the financial district.

      But the Mosque is only 10 stories told and you can’t see GZ from where the Mosque will be built.

      I don’t get this at all. New Yorkers do, they really don’t care.

      Everything is so political now it’s become folly.

      Just let them build their mosque because we have freedom and liberty in this nation and we need to atone for some of our harsh treatment in middle eastern nations.

      Gotta show them everybody needs tolerance.



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        sharideth

        posted August 20, 2010 at 12:14 pm


        i didn’t argue with any of those points. are you just making further argument for your case or trying to prove something to me? i can’t really tell. i just thought the article was interesting based on the fact that it was written by the president of a muslim organization and had a perspective that i hadn’t heard from that quarter. no more, no less.



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          Joe Crenshaw

          posted August 20, 2010 at 1:32 pm


          Nope, just further commenting on the article. You and I are in unison, no beef here.



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Joe Crenshaw

posted August 20, 2010 at 11:41 am


I also find it funny that liberals like Jon Stewart (the leftwing equivalent to Sean Hannity) are so quick to defend Islam and Muslims but so hesitant to defend the same rights of bible believing Christians.

I guess for liberals, atheists and agnostics defending Islam and Muslims is a new trend, even though the teachings of Islam fly in the face of all three of their doctrines.



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    Joe Crenshaw

    posted August 20, 2010 at 11:42 am


    Also, comparing Columbine to 9.11.01 . . .no . . that’s like comparing a house fire to the great Chicago fire.



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    KatR

    posted August 20, 2010 at 12:42 pm


    Right, I mean all of those horrible stories about protests all over the country against the building of churches. Some people are even saying that there should be no more churches built in this country at all.



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Adam Shields

posted August 20, 2010 at 12:31 pm


Make sure you watch till the end. It turns a bit serious and is quite good.



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Jay

posted August 20, 2010 at 1:24 pm


For the record, I am not opposed to the Mosque (community center – whatever) being built there. However, I find it ironic that critics of the critics are talking about constitutional rights.

Yes, the people who own the land have a right to build the mosque there. However, they do not have a right not to be criticized for doing so. There are legitimate reasons for it.

1. The owners have refused to disclose who is funding this $100 million project. Why?

2. Feisal Abdul Rauf, the imam behind this project said the United States was an “accessory” to the 9/11 attacks.

3. Muslims have a long history of building what are known as “victory” mosques where they made ‘conquests.’

Noting such things such as Off Track Betting parlors, strip clubs and liquor stores is false equivalence. The World Trade Center was not attacked by people adhering to a radical view of the Daily Racing Form. It was attacked by people adhering to a radical form of Islam.

Despite moderate Muslims denouncing violence, there have been times since the 9/11 attacks that supposed Muslim ‘education’ and ‘charity’ centers have in fact been fronts for moving monies to terrorist organizations.

In the end is it right to assume the worst about this mosque? Probably not. But it is understandable to a degree.

The people who wholeheartedly support the building of this mosque might do better to convince the majority of critics if they would refrain from attacking their motives as ones based on not caring about the US Constitution or just plain bigotry against Muslims.



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    Joe Crenshaw

    posted August 20, 2010 at 1:38 pm


    I understand your view point. But come on. There are other Mosques in Manhattan and in NYC proper!

    I live in Michigan and their is a mosque a few blocks from my house. I’ve never had any issue with them and they’ve never had any with me.

    Strip clubs are places of sin and degradation, if someone can have a skank bar right next to a place where 3,000 folks died in a terror attack that changed the world, why not a mosque two blocks away where you can’t even seen GZ?

    This isn’t a 50 story Mosque with a giant Crescent flag on top it, it is a Mosque, community center that is two blocks away. Yes I understand the sensitivity of it and I do agree they should move it, but the law says they can build it there and the law is on their side.

    Freedom of religion, we must adhere to it at all costs.



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    Adam shields

    posted August 20, 2010 at 2:52 pm


    Jay we know one another so i want to try to a dress your issues. First I think you are completely right about criticism.

    1) I don’t think there is a lack of disclosure as much as there is a lack of final funding. I could be wrong, but I think this is a valid criticism.
    2) the comments in context are almost the exact same as many, many others. Including Glen Beck and others. Context of what he was saying matters.
    3) I think this is a ‘fake’critique because everyone has a history of building places of worship when you take over an area. Because when you take over an area, you live there. Chrisitans when they invaded the Jerusalem built a ton of churches. The missions up and down California were built with slave labor. I have not scene any evidence that there is any more ‘victory’ building that any other religion or culture.



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Charlie's Church of Christ

posted August 20, 2010 at 1:29 pm


I wonder if Anne Rice is looking for any people to start an underground cohort with, because the more I read into this issue the more I understand her lament.



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    Joe Crenshaw

    posted August 20, 2010 at 1:33 pm


    What???? What Lament? That Anne Rice is arrogant and full of herself?



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Carole Turner

posted August 20, 2010 at 6:12 pm


so good!!!



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Leanne

posted August 20, 2010 at 6:55 pm


I can’t help but think there are better things to be offended about rather than a community center/mosque being built 3 blocks from ground zero in a city where the culture can change in 3 blocks.
How many homeless people are there begging for money in NYC hidden in the shadow of Wall Street’s greed? How many spouses and children are being abused within the burrough of Manhattan? There has to be something more righteous, worthy of our offense than this.



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    Dianna

    posted August 20, 2010 at 8:48 pm


    This this this. Totally.

    I was in NYC, by myself, on Christmas this last year. Right in the middle of one of the richest areas of Manhattan (fifth avenue) there are several churches. One of the most heartbreaking things I saw was a number of homeless hanging out on the steps of one of the churches as people dressed in designer clothes and looking all made up for Christmas filed past to the Christmas service. There was such a stark divide; it was awful to see.

    We’re picking up on the easy sensitivity issue, all the while ignoring the 13 year old runaway being pimped out by a 30 year old man. We’re ignoring the rampant lies and greed that plague Wall Street and certainly don’t honor the 9/11 victims. We ignore the homeless who just need a meal.

    Right after 9/11, there was this spirit of community in America – we seemed to care more about each other and seemed to have resolved to change for the better. Even where I was living, there wasn’t a person who didn’t feel, at least partially, that the US had somehow, in some small way, provoked the attack. As has been pointed out, it’s a sentiment that was repeated all over. And for a time we changed. But now the narrative surrounding it has changed, and I fear that my children will learn about 9/11 not as the terrible tragedy it was that taught America, for a time, not to be a bully on the world stage, but instead as a political tool that helped Republicans win elections and was used as a sort of “red badge of courage” in an imaginary war.

    It’s disheartening to see where our priorities are.



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Jody Webster

posted August 20, 2010 at 10:38 pm


Wonderful clip. Thanks Jon for reminding me that I can be just as much of an ass as the people I get upset at for being asses.



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john

posted August 21, 2010 at 8:31 am


how many times does islam get to say “this is NOT islam. islam is ‘the religion of peace’” before people truly start to get it? how many? 9/11? darfur? french riots? cartoons? mumbai? ft. hood? numerous subway bombings? hundreds, if not thousands of isolated crowd bombs, road-side bombs, etc? islam, as moderate as most of its followers might be, is not a “peaceful” religion. even the ones who pilgrimage every year to mecca. on two separate occasions, hundreds of muslims were stampeded by the masses of “peaceful followers”. you know why? because the sun was going down and the animals in the back of the crowd were afraid that it’d get dark before they were allowed to throw a stone at a wall symbolizing ‘the devil’. there are also thousands of them, apparently, that are not afraid to dance in the streets and celebrate “death to america”, as evidenced by the videos shown in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. make no mistake: the koran instructs them to make war with their surroundings. read for yourself. not all take it literally, but many muslims do, and it’s a worldwide problem, not just a few radicals. what do i consider sacred ground? well, as big as the explosions were at ground zero, how about any part of the area that might have had one of the victims body parts touch it during the massacre. i think that covers two blocks.

as entitled as you are to your views on this, to ridicule others’ is nauseating.



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    Silica

    posted August 21, 2010 at 8:47 am


    This reminds me of Mahatma Gandhi’s quote:

    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

    I don’t think Christians would stand up well if you applied the same level of scrutiny to them, as a whole. Islam is a peaceful religion, as is Christianity. But both have the potential to be used and abused to gain power – and both have been used that way. And when you’re dealing with religions that have 1.5 billion (Islam) and 2 billion (Christianity) followers…you’re gonna have a wide variety of practices, beliefs, and behaviors.

    For me, the major issue has always been that some choose to wrap up their cultural ignorance and prejudices with their faith – and there’s a lot of evidence of that in every single faith tradition in the world. I have a problem with it whether it’s stoning a married couple who eloped in Afghanistan or endorsing child “marriage”/rape in the United States.



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Brian

posted August 21, 2010 at 9:21 am


Here’s some truth about Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9lwnVx5wuc

Islam is a religion of peace…as long as you are muslim.



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    john

    posted August 21, 2010 at 9:51 am


    What Islam Isn’t
    By Dr. Peter Hammond
    FrontPageMagazine.com | Monday, April 21, 2008
    The following is adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:
    Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.
    Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.
    Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights.’
    When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).
    As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:
    United States — Muslim 1.0%
    Australia — Muslim 1.5%
    Canada — Muslim 1.9%
    China — Muslim 1%-2%
    Italy — Muslim 1.5%
    Norway — Muslim 1.8%
    At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:
    Denmark — Muslim 2%
    Germany — Muslim 3.7%
    United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
    Spain — Muslim 4%
    Thailand — Muslim 4.6%
    From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
    They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. ( United States ).
    France — Muslim 8%
    Philippines — Muslim 5%
    Sweden — Muslim 5%
    Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
    The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
    Trinidad &Tobago — Muslim 5.8%
    At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
    When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris –car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam – Mohammed cartoons).
    Guyana — Muslim 10%
    India — Muslim 13.4%
    Israel — Muslim 16%
    Kenya — Muslim 10%
    Russia — Muslim 10-15%
    After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
    Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%
    At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:
    Bosnia — Muslim 40%
    Chad — Muslim 53.1%
    Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%
    From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
    Albania — Muslim 70%
    Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
    Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
    Sudan — Muslim 70%
    After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
    Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
    Egypt — Muslim 90%
    Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
    Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
    Iran — Muslim 98%
    Iraq — Muslim 97%
    Jordan — Muslim 92%
    Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
    Pakistan — Muslim 97%
    Palestine — Muslim 99%
    Syria — Muslim 90%
    Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
    Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
    United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%
    100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace — there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:
    Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
    Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
    Somalia — Muslim 100%
    Yemen — Muslim 99.9%
    Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.
    ‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. – Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted August 21, 2010 at 9:55 am


    I hope you don’t really believe that.



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      john

      posted August 21, 2010 at 12:39 pm


      yep. i believe it. again, this is not to say that every muslim, or even the majority of them are like this; however, there are apparently enough of them to cause worldwide fear. just ask those countries in europe where the muslim population is growing, increasing demands, being offended by anything and everything, and with no wish at all to assimilate into the surrounding culture at all, whatsoever. hey… what to you get when two french muslim youths THINK they are being chased by french authorities and decide to hideout in an electrical substation and hence get electricuted for their-own stupidity? you get weeks of muslim riots (oh yeah, here in america they were only called the “french riots”) where the uprising destroyed property and killed otherwise innocent people that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      for once, why doesn’t the peaceful muslim majority say “you know what… even though we have the right, i can see where this might be a bit insensitive. let’s back-off here and look for another place to build”. i’ll tell you what, a decision like that would endear the american public and make them rethink their view of islam as a whole.

      it would also be nice if iman rauf would declare hamas a “terror organization” and if he would’ve refrained from saying that america was an “accessory” to 9/11.

      it would also be nice if the moderate muslims would speak-out openly against the powerful islamic clerics around the world when they call for the beheading of people, such as the danish cartoonist that dared to depict mohammed in a derogatory way? it’s okay to make fun of anyone else, especially jesus. heck, mpt, you do this alone on your website. many times it’s humorous. being a public figure, would you dare post the same types of pictures or “artwork” depicting mohammed? would you? no… i guarantee you that you would not… with goood reason, because your family would be at risk. so, you and many of your readers’ comparison of islam to christianity is absurd. the truth, as politically incorrect as it may sometimes be, actually hurts.



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        Matthew Paul Turner

        posted August 21, 2010 at 1:11 pm


        John,

        You assume a lot, man. Jon Stewart and others like poke fun at Mohammad often.

        And in light of all that you just wrote, you do realize that many Muslims believe all of the same things about Christians. Just like the video about Muslims that you linked, they also have a whole bunch of propaganda videos about Christians that lead them to believe we’re cruel godless people. Your point of view, in my opinion, accomplishes nothing. It’s fear-filled and narrow-minded–in fact, there’s so much fear involved that it leaves no room for faith in anything to exist. And I think that’s sad.



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          john

          posted August 21, 2010 at 4:37 pm


          mpt… i actually agree with most of the things you blog about; however, i whole-heartedly disagree here.

          you compare present-day islam to present-day christianity. you also frequently post pictures, drawings, and caricatures of jesus christ (by other artists) and often poke fun at other christians (often times with good reason).

          so… the question i asked begs to be answered: you are a public figure. many people read your blog and books. if christianity and islam are the same today, would you be willing to back-up that argument and post a compromising or less-than enviable depiction of islam’s prophet “mohammed”? would you be willing to repost the cartoon of mohammed on your blog and leave it up there for all the world to see (i can email it to you if you can’t find it).

          in fact… i double-dawg-dare you to post it or another and then write a silly caption underneath it?

          my guess is that you won’t, because it would immediately put your life in danger. i think that you have better judgment than that.

          so… for the record, you have no problem making fun of other christians and posting jesus cartoons… and you [rightly so] fear no physical backlash from the christian community. would you take the same chance with the islamic community?



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          Matthew Paul Turner

          posted August 21, 2010 at 5:06 pm


          John.

          Seek help, my friend. You need it.
          To be honest, I’m more freaked out by you than I am by any Muslim.



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          john

          posted August 21, 2010 at 10:20 pm


          mpt…

          btw… i didn’t post the video. that was some other ‘psycho’. like you, i’m an imperfect christian american. unlike you, i have a different viewpoint on this subject, apparently as does approximately 70% of your fellow-americans. there is no need to be “freaked out” by me or them because we view islam as a whole in a different light.

          i only asked a relevant question and a simple yes or no would’ve sufficed. there is presently both a danish newspaper editor and cartoonist that live in constant fear for their lives. as a matter of fact, a few months ago a muslim was arrested while in the process of breaking-into one of their homes with the intent to murder as he and all muslims had been instructed to do so by a high-ranking muslim cleric. the cartoonist’s crime: drawing caricature of mohommed. the editor’s crime: publishing it.

          but… instead of answering the question, you paint me as a wacko? it was just a simple question. present day islam and christianity are not the same. as annoying as christian fundamentalists might be and as many people as he/she might push away from christianity, radical islamists, who you might otherwise compare them to, kill in mass numbers with absolutely no regard for non-muslim human life.

          again… i think the comparison is ridiculous. and, you are actually in the minority with your opinion on the “two blocks away ground zero mosque”



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          Matthew Paul Turner

          posted August 21, 2010 at 11:39 pm


          Just freaked out by you man. Have a good night.



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          Matthew Paul Turner

          posted August 21, 2010 at 11:40 pm


          Oh, and you paint yourself as a wacko. Not me.



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    John

    posted August 21, 2010 at 10:08 am


    Thank you, Brian, for that illuminating look at high quality Youtube reporting. Historically, Islam has seen violence–both by its own hand, and at the hands of others.

    So has Christianity.

    And Judaism.

    And just about every other religious possibility you could conceive of.

    Christianity is not this beacon for peace on earth. And when it succeeds in cultivating peace among people of other faiths/walks of life/cultures, it is often doing so in a manner inconsistent with the teachings of the Apostles:

    “Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? What agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?”
    – 2 Corinthians 6:14-16

    For years, passages like this have justified conflicts between disparate faith groups, so much so that it could be argued that Christianity is peaceful… if you are a Christian. As a Jew, I can honestly say Protestant Christians (or “mainliners”) have been far more hateful, violent, biting, condemnatory, condescending, and manipulative to me regarding my religious convictions than any host of Muslim friends I have made, including a dear Islamic friend whose response to my news of Jewish conversion was a hearty congratulations and promise of a meal together to celebrate.



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      Joe Crenshaw

      posted August 21, 2010 at 5:00 pm


      The biggest difference between Christianity and Islam today is the dedication to violence. More Muslims are willing to spill blood in the name of their religion than we are ours.

      For example, you can’t get Christians to give tithes, offerings, or attend church regularly. Heck many have ran from biblical creation and homosexuality being a sin.

      No way on earth 19 of us are going to hijack a plane in the name of our religion, heck you can’t get 19 of us to agree on baptismal styles, is it dipping, pouring or sprinkling?

      My Pastor battles with Christians and marijuana use more than any other subject!!!

      I guess we aren’t crusading any time soon, unless it’s for the next smart phone.

      I will finish up my comments on this issue as my good friend a Muslim from Kuwait said, “Don’t tell my wife, I love pepperoni on my pizza.”

      Let’s live in peace with our Muslim brothers and sisters.



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        Matthew Paul Turner

        posted August 21, 2010 at 5:07 pm


        Joe,

        You exhaust me, man. I really don’t get your thinking. And I will resist trying to.



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Leanne

posted August 21, 2010 at 5:42 pm


I wonder how many of us have actually met face to face with Muslims and befriended them.
Yes, there is a lot of propaganda which portrays Islam as a violent religion. As Christians, we need to be cautious. Our Scriptures contain violence, our history even more.

No matter what Islam believes or condones, my response as a Christian must be the same. Christ calls me to forgive, love, and even supply my enemies’ needs (whether they be perceived enemies by me, or by the enemy, or actual enemies.) Just because violence is done against me or mine, I am called to the high standard of the Kingdom of God. I do not have the luxury of reacting out of fear or prejudice.



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    Silica

    posted August 22, 2010 at 8:24 am


    My high school was very religiously diverse (if not in other ways), and I got to know and befriend a lot of Muslim students. Most were second-generation Americans, a few had been born elsewhere but all of them had been raised here (this was in upstate NY). In college (where we had a less diverse student body), I knew a few Muslim students who were also international.

    The biggest issue, over and over, seems to be race and culture, NOT religious beliefs (which most people seem seriously uninformed about…if all you’re ever seeing of Muslims is flag burning or Osama bin Laden, you’re going to have a skewed view of things.) They are people. They have flaws just like any other human being, as well as dreams and aspirations. Now, pretty much universally all the Muslim people I’ve ever met have been seriously pro-America…but then, they and their parents had made the choice to live and/or be educated here. Just like my ancestors did 150-odd years ago. My family was lucky because by then Ben Franklin wasn’t on the scene insisting that Germans could never integrate into American society (as he did…), but my husband’s family faced tons of discrimination for being Italian, with the justification being that they were Catholic. The religion was the excuse, the problem was the language and “odd” customs. Plus many Italians didn’t look entirely white – and weren’t considered so for a long time. Neither were the Irish before them.

    The problem is ignorance. I have a lot of respect for Islam and what it teaches even though I’m not a Muslim and wouldn’t be one, but I know enough to see the relationship between my faith and theirs and I appreciate it. According to Islam, Jews and Christians are “people of the Book” and we should always be allies. Is this disregarded by some when it’s convenient to do so? Yes. But Christians have been just as guilty. Islam is roughly 600 years younger than Christianity. 600 years ago – were Christians justifying violence in the name of God en masse? Absolutely we were. This may have moved to the outside, but it’s definitely still there. Hello, white supremacist groups.

    This is rambly, but mainly I’m saying that I agree with you. :)



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Brian

posted August 22, 2010 at 2:47 pm


John is a wacko? MPT- you do realize you are an enemy to Islam right?

Qu’ran 4:101 – “for the unbelievers are unto you open enemies.”
Qu’ran 25:52 – “listen not to unbelievers, but jihad against them with the utmost strenuousness.”

But hey, John is the wacko for thinking Muslims actually believe all that junk in their Holy Book.



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    Silica

    posted August 22, 2010 at 3:14 pm


    Jews and Christians are not “unbelievers” – they are people of the Book and should not be asked to convert, but should be allowed to worship in peace.

    Also, jihad is often mistranslated as “holy war” but a more accurate way to describe it would be “struggle for faith” – aren’t Christians also called to spread their own Good News to others?



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted August 22, 2010 at 3:15 pm


    Similar verses exist in the Bible, too. Ask any Philistine.

    But… In response to your comment: Jesus said, “Love your enemies.”



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Brian

posted August 22, 2010 at 3:28 pm


Jesus said love your enemies. Too bad Muslims don’t follow him. Just realize that Christianity may promote peace, but Islam does not. It promotes violence. And I do realize what the Bible teaches, and you know better than to default to that. The best thing about Muslims moving here is they will have a better opportunity to hear the gospel and repent.



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    Leanne

    posted August 22, 2010 at 4:01 pm


    What matters to me is that we who say we are followers of Christ live into Christ’s teachings. No matter what any other religion teaches, we are called to live out the Kingdom of God. Even if the other religion was to preach annihilating all Christians, our response is to be Christ’s teaching to love those who persecute us. It is not about defaulting to Scripture, it is about taking the Mosque at Ground Zero to the high calling of Scripture….we are not called to act out of our fear or our viewpoint of what Islam is about, we are called to live out the Kingdom in the face of whatever this world and other religions throw at us. If we really take this seriously, it is really hard and life changing for us.



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    Silica

    posted August 22, 2010 at 4:10 pm


    Actually, Jesus is an important prophet in Islam, second only to Mohammed.

    So far the comments on this post have not done much to change my assessment that ignorance seems to be our (Christian Americans’) major problem with Islam…



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted August 22, 2010 at 7:24 pm


    You’re unbelievable, Brian. I’m sorry. I just don’t get people with your mindset.

    I’ve stopped trying to understand.



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    John

    posted August 24, 2010 at 9:09 am


    Brian:

    Your ideas are so unfounded in an actual exegetical study of the Qu’ran, they don’t deserve the attention they’ve gotten here from the confused and angry. Being able to use the Internet makes you an expert in neither comparative religion nor social history. Your analysis of Islam is reduced to the broadest of caricatures, founded on bits of an old text you have never read in its language of origin nor immersed yourself in its culture. Yes, on the Internet it is quite easy to find someone who will grant you the time of day as you pretend an expertise in this subject. In the real world, however, ideas have to be grounded in truth, and loosely sprung together half-sentences from a book you have reduced to a “violent text” in mere paragraphs will not suffice in academic circles.

    But hey, at least you’ll always have the Internet to stroke your intolerance, right?



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      Brian

      posted August 24, 2010 at 12:01 pm


      John – You must be an exegetical master. You have taken my two short posts and somehow gotten all of that out of it? Why don’t you read what is attributed to me (that is comments with my name beside them) and go from there.

      And instead of just saying, “nuh-uh”, why don’t you show me the academic work that you have done? It’s easy to just call someone intolerant and walk away. This was the same complaint I had with MPT painting the other John as a wacko. Name-calling doesn’t further a conversation.

      The underlining issue is this: You have to draw a line from what a religion teaches and what its followers actually adhere to. This goes in Islam as well as Christianity. Islam teaches violence. Does that mean all muslims practice violence, no. Christianity teaches peace, but does that mean all Christians promote peace…no.

      Since this MPT’s post over 100 people have been killed in India, Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen, etc. in connection with Islamic attacks. This is the stark reality that we face. These are real people who have died and you want to argue about an exegetical study of the Qu’ran? Open your eyes. Look around you. People blowing themselves up in the name of Allah. This isn’t intolerance, this is the facts.

      How about this from today’s news: Three bombs kill 36 in northwest Pakistan. Islamic militants killing other islamic people all in the name of religion. This happened at a mosque of all places. This is a religion of peace? I don’t need to make this stuff up or to take verses out of context. It’s in the newspaper.

      Now, does this mean that we as Christians aren’t supposed to love Muslims? No. We are supposed to love them. We are also supposed to preach the Gospel to them. Which is why I said that is nice that they are moving here, so they can hear the Good News that Jesus Christ died for their sins and they can repent and put their trust in him.



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