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How would you respond to this church’s sign?

Do you agree?



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Alise

posted June 29, 2010 at 1:55 pm


I think that’s a secret we’re supposed to keep pretty quiet.



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Bob Chapman

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:01 pm


If God had wanted robots programmed from on high, we would not be made in God’s image.

To remove reason would be to turn us into robots.

That doesn’t changed that we are fallen creatures, and along with that, our reason. But, our faith is only a different part of our fallen nature. Blindly following a fallen faith would be as dangerous as blindly following our fallen reason.



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Matt

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:04 pm


Expressions like this from the so-called “faithful” only further etch in the minds of the skeptical that Christianity is for the ignorant and naive, the unquestioning and the gullible.

Perhaps even worse, signs likes this one add arrogance to the equation.

Ignorance + Arrogance = Dangerous Conclusions about Faith & God



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Brannon Hancock

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:04 pm


See, the English major in me wants to point out that this is why punctuation is important… is it supposed to be:
“Reason is the great enemy that faith has”
or
“Reason is the greatest; Enemy, that faith has worship”
or
“Reason is the greatest enemy; THAT faith has worship!”
or…?

Oh, and to answer your question: I disagree.



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wackywilliams

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:11 pm


I see some validety to that stament becuse the farthes distence is the distence between the brain & the heart but also I think that is over simplifed becuse God dosen’t call us to check our brain at the door & follow blindly either, the scripters that come to mind for me I see that sighn is, work out your salvation with fear & trembling, be wise as a serpent but gentil as a dove,& many false prophets will come in my name be decerning in all things. I admit I struggle greatly with analising everthing to death & wanting to disect everything down to is last microbe, & God is teaching me to have some faith, but on the other hand it gives me the majer willies when I encounter the pod people that have the blank eyes & the painted on smile quoting word for word what there paster said & seem to have no openion of there own! thats not what God called us to be, quite the opisete, Christ was always challinging the statise quo of the religeos people.



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scottpcusa

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:12 pm


If I put that on the sign at the church where I serve, I would fire myself!



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Dan

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:12 pm


Pat Robertson, not reason, is the greatest enemy of faith.



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Ordinandy

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:13 pm


I think I’d maybe go for a burger instead…



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Matt Gavenda

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:14 pm


I like this better… “Reason can be abused while faith is hardly used.”



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Shaun McDonnell

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:14 pm


I’d sell them a bunch of these for the coming apocalypse:

http://www.twitpic.com/211ygr

-Shaun



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    lol...love it!

    posted June 29, 2010 at 2:37 pm


    LOL…love it!!!



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Crystal

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:15 pm


Someone should remind them of Christ’s words…

“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and MIND and soul.”



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Jason

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:17 pm


Ya, not diggin’ it. God is a god of reason, logic, order, and the list goes on. Being created in his image pushes us to use our reason and logic to examine and understand him and creation.

The difficulty though is that no amount of human will ever fully comprehend God. That’s where things start to break down for a lot of people. It’s a mistake to assume that reason will only lead to disbelief, much as it is a mistake to assume that if we can’t wrap our minds around something then it must be false.

Reason does lead some to walk away or reject, but that’s far from a universal truth; some are led to God through reason (Peter at Pentecost, Paul at Aereopagus, C.S. Lewis).



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Sara at Keeth Ink

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:17 pm


I’m a devoted follower of Jesus AND a PhD student in the Humanities at a state university. Signs like this (people like this? beliefs like these?) make it so hard for Christians to get respect in academia. *sigh*



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    Dianna

    posted June 29, 2010 at 8:20 pm


    I agree. I luckily went to an upper tier Christian school for my graduate work (Baylor University in TX), but even so, we were told that we need to be careful as Christian academics because we have to defend so much more. If we do a “Christian” criticism of a text, we have to be very careful to answer the “so what?” question in a way that speaks to a larger audience than just the Church.

    And that’s what this sign fails to do. Not only does it state a complete fallacy, but, on a public road (presumably), where many outside the faith would see it, it does nothing to reach the larger audience, and indeed reinforces the idea that faith is for the ridiculous and ignorant.

    Sad day.



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radosh

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:18 pm


Who gets up at 8:30?



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted June 29, 2010 at 2:21 pm


    Hahaha! You are awesome.



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    Noelle

    posted June 29, 2010 at 3:39 pm


    That was my 1st thought too. (‘cept I was thinkin even earlier to allow time to get dressed and travel).



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Vince

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:21 pm


There’s nothing unreasonable about an all powerful, sovereign God. You don’t have to leave reason at the door of faith.



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Jax

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:23 pm


It’s kind of mild compared to Martin Luther’s take… “I stomp all over reason and its wisdom and say, ‘Shut up, you cursed whore! Are you trying to seduce me into committing fornication with the devil?’” – Martin Luther (quoted in The Lutheran Handbook II, from The Last Sermon in Wittenberg)

Personally, I’m much more interested in people’s experience of God than I am in precise doctrine. But I also think God gave us brains so when could use them.



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Levi

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:24 pm


Faith / Reason – if the ultimate goal is truth, isn’t this is a non-issue? The danger, in my mind is when we hold to one or the other as the end, rather than the means.

I’d be interested to hear if there was a corresponding sermon, or if this just seemed like something cool to put on the sign.



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Andrew

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:28 pm


Then I would say that there is no reason for me to attend that church.



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Jessica

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:34 pm


God LOVES logic (ie reason). Read His Word. It’s full of logic. Listen to Matt Chandler. His sermons aren’t magical. They are usually just a very logical, thoughtful, intellect invoking look at Scripture.

Granted, in our finite, litte-bitty selves, OUR reasoning is extremely flawed and therefore an enemy of faith. Just like that church sign. Flawed logic or reasoning.



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    Dianna

    posted June 29, 2010 at 8:22 pm


    Word (specifically in the opening of John) = Logos, the Greek root for Logic. Just adding to your point.



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Dorothy

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:36 pm


They are just buggin’ out.



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Josh

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:38 pm


I’m not convinced this is a real sign. Is it possible it could’ve been photoshopped or generated from a website like says-it.com?



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    Leanne

    posted June 29, 2010 at 6:44 pm


    I have actually seen a church sign with this statement or one similar. This could be a photoshopped sign but churches do use these “cute” sayings.



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Jason Boyett

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:39 pm


“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.” (Galileo)

Change REASON to MATTHEW PAUL TURNER, however, and I can get behind that sign.



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d-train

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:41 pm


I guess all I have to say is..there is no reason if there is no faith. Uhm…wait..that should read there is no faith if there is no reason. There we go.
:-)



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Adam Shields

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:42 pm


In many ways I agree. But probably not in the way that the church intends. I think many, if not most Christians have turned faith into a series of propositional beliefs. Faith is no longer about trust, which is how I read the meaning in most of Jesus’ statements on faith.

That is not at all to say we should not use our reason. Just to say that reason is not a replacement for faith.



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Heather

posted June 29, 2010 at 2:58 pm


As with most church signs, I roll my eyes and keep driving. Later, if it really bothered me, I would vent to my husband about the idiots who try to fit theology on church signs.

Once, I blogged my rebuttal to a dumb church sign.

This one is just an eye roll. Whether it is true or not depends on semantics, how each person reading it defines “”reason” and “faith.” I somehow doubt it will pull anyone into that church. Just makes the smarties of the world roll their eyes at Christians.

Taken too far, this line of thinking could mean God didn’t intend us to USE the brains He gave us, which just seems silly, if you ask me.



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David Knapp

posted June 29, 2010 at 3:05 pm


Can you please just burn the church sign? Let’s just get rid of the idea of church signs all together.



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Susan

posted June 29, 2010 at 3:21 pm


Fear is the enemy of faith, not reason.



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Jacob Hammack

posted June 29, 2010 at 3:41 pm


I wouldn’t.



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Noelle

posted June 29, 2010 at 3:44 pm


You so make me want to stop at the baptist church on my drive to work and take pics of their signs. I have a lot of trouble getting out the door in time to make it there by 9 anyway.

Oh, and the sign is dumb. Seen worse though.



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Michael

posted June 29, 2010 at 4:52 pm


how about what God said?

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD” Isaiah 1:18



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TomK

posted June 29, 2010 at 5:03 pm


I don’t believe in reason. The best Christians are the ones who don’t think.



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Joel Glovier

posted June 29, 2010 at 7:52 pm


Yeah I know its a really silly statement to make (not to mention putting on your church’s outdoor sign) – but I think that statement gets a bad wrap because it’s being taken out of context.

I actually agree that often times people refuse to walk by faith because they (we) are so hard core on trying to understand. Sometimes the answers come after you are willing to believe, not before.

Not saying you have to dump your mind to believe in Christ (duh), but that also doesn’t mean we are called to explain everything before we believe. In fact, a lot of it doesn’t even get explained AFTER we believe – that’s why the Gospel is called a mystery.



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Michael

posted June 29, 2010 at 9:02 pm


God will never expect you to divorce your analytical, reasoning mind…he supposedly created you with it, correct? It’s a step of faith, not a blind leap into a vast dark chasm of buried heads in the sand. The sign is ridiculous



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Scott

posted June 29, 2010 at 11:44 pm


This sign isn’t for non-believers. It is for the pious and sanctimonious to reinforce their pharisaical judgement.

We can come and reason together, but we most assuredly must remember why.



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Tamara

posted June 30, 2010 at 1:36 am


Nothing to say except…
*cringe*



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Young Mom

posted June 30, 2010 at 8:13 am


That is why I’m now interested in the Catholic Church.



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Kevin Ring

posted June 30, 2010 at 11:37 am


Seems like a pretty logical argument… wait! Ahhh, it’s a heresy trap!!!!



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Ken

posted July 2, 2010 at 8:21 am


Seems they just settled with that statement, rather than ask the tough questions. Plus, I think reason makes a lot of sense in my faith: God created me to be in relationship with Him, my sin screwed that up, so Christ gave his life so that relationship could be restored. I’m not so naive to think that everyone who hears that would shout out “Yeah! I get it now!” I’m just saying it makes sense to me.



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kerrin

posted July 2, 2010 at 6:59 pm


Love your enemy



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