Jesus Needs New PR

Jesus Needs New PR


How would you respond to this ‘explanation’ of faith?

How would you respond?



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KatR

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:03 pm


I am struggling mightily with the whole concept of hell these days. I’m weary of loving God because of threats.

If a friend of mine said “I’m dating this guy, and he says that he loves me more than I will ever know, but he also says that if I don’t love him back and do what he says, he will see to it that I’m tormented for eternity”, I would call the police ASAP.



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    Emily

    posted June 7, 2010 at 2:10 pm


    Well, I would say that he has got the Gospel all wrong.

    It’s not about following “ten rules” or “doing what he says”. It’s about accepting Christ’s gift. Jesus has already given us a way out of hell, a way into the loving arms of God. It’s a gift. And you can’t get a gift unless you accept it.

    Nothing you can do will ever put you in right standing with God.

    It’s been done.

    And God does not “need” money. It’s already his anyway. You’re just borrowing it.



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      Ms. Random

      posted June 7, 2010 at 3:22 pm


      PERFECT response!



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      Detrich

      posted June 7, 2010 at 5:54 pm


      I don’t even think God could have said it better!! I’m joking!! But that’s a great response!!



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        Orange

        posted June 7, 2010 at 6:26 pm


        There’s no such thing as a hot and flame-filled Hell. Never has been. Jesus was talking about an actual city that often got described as hell. Our idea of “Hell” was invented long after AD 313 by man when Christianity became “legal.”

        So KatR makes a great point.



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          Bryan

          posted June 8, 2010 at 8:40 am


          I’m kind of coming around to a position similar to Orange’s on this one. I’m not sure that there is a Hell where people are sent. I think Christ might be describing just the torment of your existence after rejecting God. I’m not even sure that your existence continues, considering that the redeemed are the ones said to have eternal life.

          Either way, it never should be just about avoidance of Hell. though, we can thank the last 6-7 decades for that emphasis.



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      sleep_run_art

      posted June 7, 2010 at 11:14 pm


      FTW!

      Yeah – I’d say his understanding of God and the Bible are obviously twisted.



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Jennifer

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:07 pm


He forgot to mention that whole “grace” thing.



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bub

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:08 pm


I would say “You’re right. That’s exactly what religion has done. Now let’s go past that and look at the truth of the Gospel and what following Jesus really means.”



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Carole Turner

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:08 pm


I would say that George has it wrong actually, he needs to read the gospels, Jesus fulfills the law, His grace works through all time, past and future, and it’s even more unexplainable then the stuff George mentioned. Unexplainable but “IT” and getting IT is the key, not the rules or the money. :-)



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matt bernico

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:12 pm


I think he brings up a good point, Christianity really needs to think this sky daddy thing out.



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Just Me

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:13 pm


Well there are a few problems with it:
1. It only addresses the Abrahamic religions, even though it uses “religion” broadly.
2. It leaves out major theological points from all of the Abrahamic religions.
3. It’s over-simplified, and liberties are taken with literalism.
4. Because of 2 & 3 it’s essentially inaccurate.
5. However, I agree that the general idea, if fleshed out accurately, would probably still be problematic for many individuals.
6. I get that it’s comedy, and I don’t have any answers myself, but this kind of sarcastic, uninformed, shock-value based treatment of any important idea isn’t doing anyone any favors, not even the person propagating it.

Mostly I just hate when an important discussion gets mangled into pseudo-witty snippets like this. We all do it sometimes, and it’s easier than having a real conversation, with a real person, but it’s cheap and ineffectual in the long run.



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    Darrell

    posted June 7, 2010 at 2:30 pm


    I get that it’s comedy

    And that’s the point. Comedy — especially stand-up — doesn’t fight fair. It uses exaggeration, parody and satire instead of the acutal (rather unfunny) facts. There’s really no way to answer it logically without sounding like a nerd and saying “I reject your fundamental premise…”



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      Just Me

      posted June 7, 2010 at 2:50 pm


      Thanks for schooling me on the rules of comedy. I was born yesterday, so I need clarification on these things.

      My bad for thinking I should give my opinion when it’s solicited. God knows no one else on this thread has responded seriously to the piece of “comedy” in question. Oh wait…

      Maybe you would have had a little less trouble with my comment if you had bothered to notice the “but” that came a few words after the half-sentence you quoted?

      P.S. Nerds make more money.



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        Darrell

        posted June 7, 2010 at 3:16 pm


        Dude…I was agreeing with you. Perhaps consider a switch to decaf?



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        Detrich

        posted June 7, 2010 at 6:01 pm


        Definitely agree with Darrell… Maybe its not best you wake up with folgers in your cup! lolol



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Darrell

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:15 pm


Atheism has actually convinced people that all the world we see around us is the result of a huge cosmic accident that was caused by nothing, means nothing, and ends in nothing. And yet for some reason we should be really, really concerned about studying this accident and learning about our fellow bundles of random atoms and try our best to be a good bundle of random atoms ourself (whatever good means).

But it’s so much better than faith.



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somecallmejim

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:20 pm


Kat,

It’s not so much a threat, as it is a misunderstanding on our part. It’s not that God “wants to send us to hell” or threatens to do so if we don’t follow Him. On the contrary, scripture makes it clear that the original purpose of Hell was not a destination for man, but for Satan and those eternal beings who opposed god. But thanks to sin entering the world, it’s now our destination unless we come to Him for help. Here’s the key: God doesn’t send any of us to hell – we were on that path all on our own. What God DOES do is try to rescue us from the sin we were born into. He’s not shoving us in the bottomless pit if we don’t live up to his commandments. He’s standing at the entrance of that pit, trying to save as many of us as will listen to His calling.

Now, to deal with that Carlin quote, if someone came up to me and gave me that argument, I would agree with them. The truth is that Carlin’s words are actually pretty accurate as it pertains to many religious organizations. Of course, after that I would mention that while that might be how some religious organizations portray God, almost every single line of that is almost completely backwards compared to who God actually is. In fact, the only line I don’t see a theological issue with is the line that “he loves you”.

Of course, that’s the 30 second response. If I had time to sit down with whomever brings up the argument, I’d likely go into more detail.



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    Z

    posted June 7, 2010 at 2:48 pm


    I find it strange that a lot western Christians say they aren’t religious but they have a relationship. Last time I checked, we practice (in many different ways) the religion known as Christianity. Maybe I’ll start a blog called The word religious needs new PR :)



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      Darrell

      posted June 7, 2010 at 3:27 pm


      It’s not a religion, it’s just a belief in the Bible about the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, and a relationship with God through daily devotions and church attendance and times of remembrance during the Lord’s supper and last but not least the keeping a strict code of moral law as laid out in Scripture.

      Actually that kind of does sound like a religion



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        JuliaKate

        posted June 7, 2010 at 3:37 pm


        haha! exactly. we are the masters of double talk. at least we’re the masters of something… :-/
        *one of my biggest pet peeves in the church = “religion vs. relationship”… double talk at it’s best. if you’re sitting in a building where a man or woman is speaking to you from an isolated platform or position and you visit this building regularly and follow a creed much like the others who visit the building… chances are… exactly;)



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          somecallmejim

          posted June 7, 2010 at 4:12 pm


          I have no qualms against “religion”. Obviously, the definition of religion is simply a set of beliefs and practices. In other words, if you believe what the Bible says and you have practices that relate to the Bible’s teaching, boom, you have religion. Being a Jesus follower is nigh on impossible without some form of religion accompanying it, no matter what the modern Christian says.

          I think the cause for the vilification of the term “religion” comes down to bad teachings and practices being wrapped up into religion at large, and the general disdain this causes folks who actually, you know, read their Bibles.

          Of course, they read their Bible enough to know that some of the modern day religious practices are wacky. Or maybe they don’t read it enough, but rather trust others to tell them what’s in there. Regardless, they make it past the first hurdle of identifying the problem, but they fail to realize that religion does indeed have a place in the life of a Jesus follower. From there they create the slogan “It’s not a religion, it’s a relationship™” all the while continuing to practice a religion, albeit one that is somewhat more centered on a relationship with God through Christ and less one of dogma and tradition that are somewhere between barely Biblical and outright spurious.

          What then is the solution? What do we say when someone reads a joking comment like that of the late Carlin, and says “yeah, what he said!” to us? In my opinion, we need to show these folks love, real biblical love like what Paul or John had for their captors, the ones they both persisted in sharing God with to the end.

          THAT is the biggest problem I have with Christianity at large. Supposed Jesus followers tell you about a God of Love, but if you disagree with their beliefs, they turn into Godzilla, attacking your points, and often you personally. This is what we need to avoid. Think about it – who would you be most persuaded by, someone who genuinely cares for you, or someone who angrily debates with you at every impasse?

          okay, enough of that.



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Diane

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:25 pm


Um, God doesn’t need your money … He has the cattle on 1,000 hills.

He does absolutely love us and gave up everything that we might have him.



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nameless

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:35 pm


I think that hell is a lot less “fire and torture” and a lot less God. what makes hell so bad isn’t the pain. what makes hell so bad is that it’s a total separation from God. unfortunately the weight of this is incomprehensible the same way it’s impossible to comprehend things outside our universe. kinda like a life form that isn’t based on our atom system and different laws of physics. either way science or anything else is about searching for an understanding of what isn’t already comprehended.



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Daniel Price

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:35 pm


It would seem to me that George doesn’t get it. Maybe he’s never read the Scriptures where it talks about the love of God, and Jesus dying for us. Or maybe he is a selective reader and read only the parts he wanted to that would support his ideas about God and religion in general. I wonder how he’s enjoying the warm weather in hell, by the way. I shouldn’t have said that but I did.



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Jenn

posted June 7, 2010 at 2:50 pm


Where to start… how about with Hell.

Hell is plainly separation from God, whether that’s permanent, involves fire, ash and all that only He knows – but what I know is I don’t want to be there – I don’t want to spend this life or that afterlife in that place. However, if you are already hardened to God, if you don’t desire Him, see that He is everywhere around you (not limited to the sky or wherever we put Him these days) then I guess you aren’t going to mind being without Him for eternity. Though I will not say that that doesn’t grieve me – you are missing out.

As for the rules, well let’s be reasonable about those 10, they are ten of which the vast majority of us whether we believe in God or gods or even not think are pretty good ideas, the make us a civil society, like no to murder, adultery, stealing etc. And yes as noted before there is definitely grace – so in the end I do believe that God who is sovereign and just will get it all figured out in the end – it is not my place to pick who’s in or out, who’s right or wrong etc.

Now as for that money issue – He doesn’t need it, none of us NEED it, though the want of it has been often our downfall. So if that is what turns you away from Him, I am sorry for my part.



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Paul

posted June 7, 2010 at 3:14 pm


I second bub’s response.



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Jason

posted June 7, 2010 at 3:17 pm


I guess George knows about the “man in the sky” now. :)



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James

posted June 7, 2010 at 3:17 pm


How would I answer this? It depends on what kind of answer you want, I guess. Do you want the “let’s-all-love-everybody-and-show-people-how-easy-it-is-for-Christians-to-NOT-be-offended-by-stupidity” answer or the “let’s-speak-the-truth-in-love-even-though-the-truth-sometimes-hurts-like-a-steel-toed-bootstomp-to-the-crotch” answer? Me? I like going with the latter.
George Carlin actually said this:
“Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day.”

I’m going to have agree with others who have pointed out that aside from the fact that Carlin here is painting with a ridiculously broad brush, he’s not even accurately painting the portrait of MANY religions.

“And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.”

This proves to me that Carlin has never actually read the Ten Commandments, as they are about 60/40 (depending on the translation) “do not’s” to “do’s.” Am I being a stickler here? Maybe, but the only way to defend against such a broad brush is to point out the details.

“And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!”

This is where it becomes clear to me that Carlin has never given true consideration to the gospels. It’s important to look at this section point by point.

1. And if you do any of these ten things

The Ten Commandments are actually a guide for life. Yes, they are part of “The Law”, but it becomes clear as you read the Bible that the Mosaic Law was established not simply to govern Israel, but to serve as a guideline for understanding God’s holiness.

2.he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish,

Again, Carlin hasn’t read. The Bible is REMARKABLY clear on this. Hell was prepared for Lucifer and the angels that fell with him. The reason for this is that, one day, God intended to eternally separate himself and all of Creation from Lucifer and those fallen angels, so that He, God, might never be in the presence of sin again. Once fallen humanity came into play, it becomes easy to understand that Hell is the place where they will be sent as well.

4. where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!”

There are a couple of problems here. As this is not the place to go into the theology of hell, what may or may not have happened in the intervening time between Jesus’ death and resurrection, or what the parable of Lazarus and the rich man has to teach us about “heaven” and “hell” prior to the resurrection, I will leave those issues alone and say, simply this. The Bible is fairly clear in its teaching that God sends NO ONE except Lucifer and the fallen angels to Hell; that they are the only beings beyond redemption. If any person goes to Hell it is because of a choice they have made to deny God supremacy in their life.
Secondly, and MUCH more controversial is this: I firmly believe that our understanding of Hell is not very accurate. It is described using various terms that easily contradict the others. hell is a place of fire, and yet a place of utter darkness, a place of tormenting cold, a place where there is “weeping wailing and gnashing of teeth.” This phrase is interesting because it references a behavior of mourning, and this is the phrase that is, I think, most important. Once the soul finds itself in Hell, there will come a realization that there is, then, no hope of reprieve. It isn’t that there is weeping and wailing because of the fire or burning or smoke, Mr. Carlin, it’s due to the fact that the souls in Hell understand that they are forever separated from God. We have NO IDEA what that means here on Earth. The Prevenient Grace of God allows us to experience life’s little divine moments; it allows us to have a good day even when things started out bad; it extends protection to us in times of emergency; it allows us to be happy even though we are lost.

“But He loves you.”

That’s the first true (and most important) statement in this entire diatribe. God does love us. He loves each and every one of us whether we understand it or not, whether it makes sense to us or not. GOD LOVES YOU!

God loves you so much that He came to earth in the form of Jesus Christ (don’t get me started on Trinitarian Theology… again, this is not the place; Suffice to say I believe in the trinity) Who lived a perfect and sinless life, died a criminals’ death and when no sin could be found in Him Death and the grave were defeated by Him. All this was done so that if you would just believe (it doesn’t have to all make sense right now, you don’t have to have all of the answers right now) God would grant you sonship. God grants to us the right to call him “Daddy” and for Him to say to us, I know you’re trying and I know you’ve failed, but when I look at you I see the perfection of Jesus Christ. I did that for you because I love you so much.

That’s how I would answer George Carlin.



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Liz

posted June 7, 2010 at 3:18 pm


I would say “Jesus Needs New PR”



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    Jeff Holton

    posted June 7, 2010 at 5:53 pm


    Careful. Did you see “Dogma?” Carlin WAS Jesus’ new PR.
    :)



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Roman

posted June 7, 2010 at 3:23 pm


Someone had to say it.



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Jeff Holton

posted June 7, 2010 at 3:31 pm


I’d probably get into an existential argument over the existence or non-existence of George Carlin.

It’s just how I roll.



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Jamie the Very Worst Missionary

posted June 7, 2010 at 4:53 pm


I agree with George Carlin.

That’s exactly what “Religion” has taught.

But if he wants to talk about what Jesus teaches, he’ll have to paint a very different picture.



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    JuliaKate

    posted June 7, 2010 at 7:18 pm


    which religion in particular? James 1:27 & 1 Tim. 5:4 give clarity of what good religion is.



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      Z

      posted June 8, 2010 at 7:33 am


      agreed. i’d like to know what religion this is.



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      Jamie the Very Worst Missionary

      posted June 8, 2010 at 7:54 am


      And the context of James 1 and Tim 5 give clarity of what good religion is NOT.

      But if you feel that Christianity, as a religion, hits those marks; Pure, faultless, caregivers to orphans and widows…
      ….well, then I was wrong, and George Carlin is wrong, and I should change my response to MPT’s post to, “Apparently George Carlin hasn’t experienced ‘good’ religion”.

      But I’m not doing that.

      You seem super hung up on the use of this word. I think we all get that Christianity is a “religion”. My point was that I know a whole lot of “Christians” who don’t follow the teachings of Jesus (sometimes, I am one!). And I know a whole lot of followers of Christ who would like to put an arms length between their Faith and the atrocities this world has seen/sees in the name of “Religion.”

      What George Carlin described as “religion” is a correct assessment, in my view. But an assessment which, none the less, has NOTHING to do with being a follower of Christ.



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        Juliakate

        posted June 8, 2010 at 10:02 am


        One of the “benefits” of the Christian religion is the individual responsibility. Each one is responsible for his own soul. Each one is given (according to my theology) the opportunity to choose. Christianity Is lived out both as an individual & a community. We’ve sucked at both & there are some cases when we’ve hit the mark straight on. That’s why the generalizations are not just semantics but a misrepresentation of our practice. We are either religiously following Christ or religiously following after the pride of man.
        It’s just not honest when we try to sell our religion or relationship as a non-religion.



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james

posted June 7, 2010 at 5:34 pm


“George, you have hit religion right on the head. But you have missed the point of Jesus and Christianity entirely.”



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Adam Whitley

posted June 7, 2010 at 5:56 pm


I’m a huge Carlin fan. In this quote, he perfectly destroys the bullsh*t we turn Christianity into. There is no way to argue with what he said, because he’s absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the true Gospel of Christ, but he’s absolutely right.

//AW



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    Silica

    posted June 9, 2010 at 11:20 am


    I agree with this. I think the joke is much more about how people act rather than what God actually wants, and based on Carlin’s performance in “Dogma”, a movie that as a Catholic I wholeheartedly enjoy, that would seem to be the exact message he is sending.



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Jesse

posted June 7, 2010 at 6:01 pm


I’ve listened to a lot of Carlin’s early routines, and they give you a good sense of the kind of hidebound, legalistic, bordering-on-nonsense Catholicism he grew up in. And let me say I have nothing against Catholicism, there is plenty of the same brand of Protestantism to go around too and we’ve all seen our share of it. E.g.: He talks about the “special dispensation” that allowed a neighboring parish to eat meat on a couple Fridays because they raised the most money for a raffle or something, about how the Vatican Council arbitrarily canceled Limbo (“hope they promoted everyone”), figuring out which priest was a “light penance” at confession, and so on and so on. It’s sort of like the Catholic version of “Churched.” If that is the picture of Christianity you grew up on, I can see being disillusioned. The moral of the George Carlin story is: watch what you teach your kids.



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Orange

posted June 7, 2010 at 6:23 pm


It’s interesting how most of the comments involve George’s statement representing “religion” but not necessarily the grace, faith, etc that Jesus teaches. But you know, humanity having to “accept” that gift turns it right back in to religion, whether or not you want to admit that.

The person giving the gift (Jesus!) is the one who mandates it as such… whether or not people (Humanity!) opens or accepts or likes the gift, doesn’t negate the fact that it’s a gift with our name on it…

What if grace is just that… grace? Completely unearned and not dependent upon our acceptance? And what if that grace is for everybody-whether it’s accepted or not?

What if Jesus actually “destroyed” the power of sin when he died on the cross? Nearly every comment here diminishes the cross and puts the power in the hands of people. That’s religion. And that’s what Carlin poking fun at. Because a compassionate hopeful God who is willing to send 95% of the people on earth right now to hell isn’t compassionate or hopeful…

What if salvation is for everybody?

And btw, this is what the early Christians believed. The stuff mentioned in this post would have been considered “fiction” according to the earliest followers of Jesus…



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted June 7, 2010 at 6:33 pm


    Thanks for the comment Orange! I’ve actually been reading a good bit about “Christian Universalism” of late… :)



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    JuliaKate

    posted June 7, 2010 at 7:35 pm


    i have no problem with someone living a life outside of any religion at all and purely loving Christ whether we do as he says & does or not. but it’s goofy of christians that attend a gathering of any kind and follow a creed of any kind and have a concept of the afterlife of any kind and have a unified belief of a supreme being of any kind to say that they are not religious. it’s semantics, but it’s sloppy. i am fully aware that religion is a word we came up with because there was no word in our language to describe what God was setting up with the arrival of the Christ, but none the less it’s the word chosen. religion, by english definition, is not a thing that is in itself bad or good. it is a thing that can be played out in “bad” or “good” way.
    but if we want to get deeper into the validation of the canonization of scriptures, then perhaps “religion” would be a term reserved for habitual living and not our relationship with a spiritual being. but i wasn’t sure if we were going there. just thought i’d address the surface sloppy semantics of many christians;)



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    somecallmejim

    posted June 7, 2010 at 11:22 pm


    As much as my theological trigger finger is itching to unleash a torrent on Universalism, I shall resist, and focus on the one part of the argument that I’ve already stated in prior responses.

    God isn’t “sending” anyone to Hell. Quite the contrary, he’s offering salvation from Hell.

    We send ourselves to Hell without any help from God. Our sins are enough to bring us there without Him having to pick us up and drop us in the bottomless pit. If God were the one sending sinners to Hell, it would make no sense at all that he would have to sacrifice His only Son. He could just, you know, stop sending people there. But we insist on dragging ourselves to hell without any intervention from Him, and because of this, Christ sacrificed Himself, so that we might be saved.

    But just as the idea that God is the one sending people to Hell is faulty, the idea that everyone gets a free ticket equally invalidates His sacrifice, just in a different way. If there is no need for personal repentance, and nothing in or about our lives needs to change for God to redirect us to Heaven, then He could have done that without a sacrifice at all.

    Think about it: The purpose of Christ’s sacrifice was to give us a way to be cleansed of our sins. Why did we need this cleansing? Because God’s Holiness is such that it’s impossible for a sinner to enter into it. If God can allow the most vile, twisted sociopathic serial killer who never had a shred of guilt or remorse over His crimes and never wanted to be cleansed of them into his presence today, he could have done it all along, with no need for the suffering on the cross. The bottom line is that no matter which end you hold this thing, there’s no way Universalism works in conjunction with scripture and Christ’s sacrifice.

    Oh geez, sorry. I really didn’t mean to go off like that. The ol’ theology gun has a hair trigger sometimes. I’ll work on that. In the mean time,

    :-)



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      Matthew Paul Turner

      posted June 7, 2010 at 11:28 pm


      Just to be clear, it’s Christian Universalism that Orange is talking about, meaning universal redemption through Jesus.



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    vegas710

    posted June 8, 2010 at 7:07 am


    I love this. Thanks for introducing me to these ideas.



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Russell

posted June 7, 2010 at 6:25 pm


I wouldn’t respond to it at all. My faith doesn’t require explaining, and absolute truths are absolute whether you believe in them or not. Remember Matthew 7:6.



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted June 7, 2010 at 6:29 pm


    Really? That’s fine. But you have faith that they’re absolute. You don’t know for sure.



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    Sbux Josh

    posted June 7, 2010 at 10:55 pm


    Matthew 7:6 in other words…

    Do not persist in offering what is sacred or of value to those who have no appreciation for it, because your gift will not only become contaminated and be despised, your generous efforts could also be rebuffed and perhaps even openly attacked.

    What are the pearls then? Truth? (which you believe to be the gospel) Faith in the gospel does not require an explanation? You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of epistemology.

    MPT is right… thats fine. But illogical. You have no reason to expect anyone else to believe what you do with out an explanation.



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      Russell

      posted June 9, 2010 at 9:09 pm


      That’s what I’m saying though. I don’t expect George Carlin to believe in what I believe in. And MPT is right, it’s faith, not common knowledge. But isn’t that what we’re rewarded for?



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Matt Kelley

posted June 7, 2010 at 6:30 pm


Carlin is right on because this is the piss-poor version of the gospel that so many Christians have been satisfied with because it tells them that they are the “in-group” and everyone else is screwed. We’ve sold God far too short, and so many people see through it. George Carlin just had the stones to say it.



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cap'n

posted June 7, 2010 at 7:12 pm


Carlin mustnotof paid any attention to John Milton’s “Paradise Lost” in English class.



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Leanne

posted June 8, 2010 at 5:31 am


I use to agree with you Mr. Carlin. Then I experienced Jesus.



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Sharon K

posted June 8, 2010 at 9:19 am


God doesn’t “need” our money, or anything else. We’re the ones who benefit if we give it. And, there are plenty of non-Christian “Christians” who ask for money on God’s behalf, to benefit themselves. I was raised to believe that there is no physical hell of fire and brimstone that a supposedly loving God will send us to as punishment. Hell is separation from God that we bring on ourselves when we refuse His love.



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Josh

posted June 8, 2010 at 9:41 am


“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’, All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

The purpose of the law isn’t arbitrary. It’s not there to be a stumbling block to send you to hell, but to help you love God and your neighbor. If you succeed in doing those two thing, the law becomes the tutor it was meant to be. When you fail to do those things, the law is there as a mirror.



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Holly

posted June 8, 2010 at 9:42 am


Wow, Carlin. That’s original. Did you just watch the Invention of Lying? Or are you pissed off because some Christian asked you for money to help out some kids in Zimbabwe? Because I could understand how that would piss you off. Really.



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    Paula

    posted June 8, 2010 at 5:46 pm


    um…I think he died before that movie came out…



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    Sbux Josh

    posted June 8, 2010 at 9:37 pm


    Or just maybe Holly… Maybe He’s just pissed off at Christianity for all the garbage they try to pass off as truth. Things they claim to be truth without sufficient evidence. From the idea that there is a God that cares about us and our sexual orientation to resurrection of Jesus. Maybe he’s pissed off at the catholic church for the crusades and the inquisition. Maybe he’s pissed off at being “churched” all his childhood when he realized it didn’t hold any holy water. I know I’m pissed.



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Dennis

posted June 8, 2010 at 11:05 am


I guess in a “bare bones”, basic way of explaining it, I would somewhat agree with his paragraph.

I would, however, revise the rest to:

“…but He loves you.

He loves you so much that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him would not go to that “smoke/fire/torture/suffering” place but have eternal life. Oh, and BTW, God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world from that “smoke/fire/torture/suffering” place through him.

He loves you!”



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Holly

posted June 9, 2010 at 8:13 am


Is he dead? Sorry he missed it. Good movie. Funnier than he was.

Sbux- You’re not very original, either. I doubt Carlin ever thought much about the Crusades. Maybe Vietnam… a war that was not about religion.

Mass murders would occur with or without the belief of a imaginary deity. Stalin, Hitler, and Mao didn’t kill in the name of religion.

Your beef seems to be with fundamentalist Christians. There are a whole world of Christians who occasionally vote Democrat, don’t give a rat’s behind about sexual orientation, and who give more to charities and non-profit organizations (in the name of God’s love) than their atheist counterparts (statistically speaking, anyway.)



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