Jesus Needs New PR

Jesus Needs New PR


At his Glenn Beck & call: one pastor responds

This post is written by pastor and all around good guy (my friend) Adam.

OK. It makes my wife nervous when I wade into these kinds of discussions, especially when I do it publicly. Now, for the record, I claim no affiliation to any political party, as I think political parties tend to demand a level of allegiance that I’m not willing (or at liberty) to give.

That being said, this most recent clip of Glenn Beck “teaching” us about social justice and partnership is abhorrent in my opinion. Of course, it would be merely ridiculous and laughable if I were simply judging it based on content alone. But that’s not the only issue here. What bothers me is the blatant attempt to co-opt Christians for a political agenda (as well as for ratings). What bothers me more is how wildly successful it’s been. To that, some of you might say, “But isn’t that what they are arguing against?”

Yes, it is. And that’s the hypocrisy of it all.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think scripture mandates government-enforced socialism or communism (which are not the same thing). However, it should be noted that under the Mosaic Law, redistribution was actually mandated in some ways i.e. “leaving the edges of your field unharvested for the poor,” and the “year of Jubilee”. But scripture doesn’t advocate unregulated free-market capitalism, either.

The theme that I read over and over again in scripture is God’s concern with what kind of a people we are becoming–both collectively and individually. Are we becoming the kind of people who actually care about the other person…the poor and the oppressed…the widow and the orphan?

OR

Are we becoming the kind of people who find ways to demonize and devalue other people, so that we can justify hoarding wealth and resources for ourselves?

Do we look for ways to baptize selfishness, or is the unconditional love of God that we’ve accepted making us more loving and generous people? Is grace something that we merely accept, or is it something that we embody?

Do we care more about the government trying to take our “hard-earned money” to help the poor and oppressed than we care about the fact that they are poor and oppressed?

Do we use one verse (out of context) from Second Thessalonians to justify our way out of more than 2000 verses of scripture that deal with our responsibility to the poor and oppressed?

(SIDE NOTE: Did you realize that the prophet Ezekiel identifies the “sin of Sodom” as the fact that they were “arrogant and overfed” and that they “did not care about the poor and the oppressed”?)

Are we so troubled by the plight of the poor and oppressed that we wrestle with the complex nature of the problem and the inadequate solutions offered by political leaders on all sides, or are we suckers for T.V. personalities whose confident, righteous-sounding rhetoric gives us ways to justify our selfishness, greed, and/or prejudice?

You see; the term “social justice” was coined because the word “justice” became obscure over time. That happened because the legal, punitive meaning of “justice” began to dominate society’s understanding of the term. But in the Bible, the dominant meaning of “justice” is more akin to what is currently meant by the term “Social Justice.”

(Glenn Beck badly mis-characterizes “social justice” in the video clip.)

Sadly, we Christians have a very pervasive tendency to remake God in our own image instead of the other way around. And we use Scripture as a tool to prop up what we already want to believe rather than allowing God’s story to change our hearts.

That’s why it saddens me to hear Jerry Fallwell Jr. and George Lillback happily lend their support and “wisdom” to Beck’s propaganda. In this clip alone, they oversimplify issues that are deeply complex (Biblical and otherwise), and even poorly reveal the actions and words of historical figures (like Rauschenbusch, for instance, which will be clear to anyone who has actually read his works) and concepts they cite. I’m unclear if their actions are because they haven’t taken the time to adequately research these issues, or if they think they’re serving some “greater good”.

To me, it seems they’ve allowed themselves to be co-opted and used. Multiple positions could be intelligently and compellingly argued by people of faith, if they would simply admit the complex nature of the argument. Instead, we get people passing themselves off as experts to support what is little more than political, social, and media propaganda.

Sure, I’m disturbed by the fact that Glenn Beck is presuming to tell people where they should and shouldn’t go to church.  But you know what bugs me the most? The fact that so many Christians actually buy into Beck’s message. Where’s our discernment? Why are respected Christian leaders standing next to him and supporting his propaganda?

And why in the world do so many people of faith feel the need to be at this man’s beck and call and serve his agenda rather than the agenda of Christ?



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Natey

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:09 pm


When fundamentalist Christians such as Falwell jump into bed with someone who is a member of a cult, it is disturbing. In any other arena they would be against what Mr. Beck believes. But since he has such a wide media reach, they are willing to forgive that for their own personal gain….Shame.



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Socialwrkr24/7

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:10 pm


I absolutely agree that we, as Christians, need to be concerning ourselves with the poor and oppressed. I spend every day at work trying to do just that. Here is the thing though – I don’t think our government is actually doing that. I don’t think the many systems that our government (generally on the liberal side) have pushed for are actually helping people. I see people every day caught in the cycles of poverty and reliance on the government – while they subsequently resent the government for being involved in their lives. I don’t agree with much of Beck’s rantings – but I do think we are wrong to go down the road of socialism in America. I think Christians should start a revolution of their own by actively following God’s commandments to help the poor and oppressed, women and orphans, etc – not by allowing the government to take their money and do a crappy job of “helping” people. Just my opinion from the inside…



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    Paul wilkerson

    posted May 19, 2010 at 8:49 pm


    What good observations by socialworker24/7
    I also work in a social services ministry, and
    completely agree with your observation, we
    refer to it as a trap, when people are encouraged
    to settle for the scraps that the govt throws
    them, while wasting billions of dollars ineffectively
    trying to help folks. Churches do a better job
    and much more efficiently. And remember, it’s
    our job as Christians.



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted May 19, 2010 at 8:54 pm


    Social justice isn’t socialism. And you know, sometimes those programs do work.



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      Paul wilkerson

      posted May 19, 2010 at 10:07 pm


      Where is the social justice in destroying
      families, trapping people in poverty, pouring
      billions into wasteful, fraud riddled programs?
      Why do we want so badly for the govt to do
      what the Church should be doing?



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        Matthew Paul Turner

        posted May 19, 2010 at 10:14 pm


        Paul, I agree that it’s the church’s responsibility… but since World War II we’ve slowly allowed that to slip from our fingers… and the government has had to pick up the pieces… And I also agree that the system is hardly perfect… but your complaints are generalizations that do not apply to everybody… the truth is, capitalism is just as much to blame for those “wasteful fraud riddled programs” as so-called socialism…



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          Paul wilkerson

          posted May 19, 2010 at 10:37 pm


          I guess I don’t understand the denigration of
          capitalism, and embracing of socialism, when
          neither have been shown to be effective in delivering
          social justice in the real life sense of the term.
          Our capitalist system embraced social programs
          that incorporate socialist ideas, and look at what
          we got. This mess has been evolving since Pres.
          Johnson. Removing personal responsibility,
          depressing the human spirit, fostering govt. dependance
          even in a general way seems like a wrong path.



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          Chris

          posted May 20, 2010 at 8:40 am


          I agree with Paul. Since World War II the church has allowed these problems to slip through our fingers largely because of a shift in government policy. Social Security and welfare programs alleviate the rest of us from having to deal with these problems.

          There are countries in Europe who provide free child care. That sounds great at first, but just think of the affect that has on the family structure of the people there. I doubt my mother would have stayed home and raised me had we lived in one of those countries. I’m not insensitive to the needs of poor families, but you can’t just ignore the large scale affects of a government policies.



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      Socialwkr24/7

      posted May 20, 2010 at 1:37 am


      I agree Matthew, sometimes they do work – but more often they don’t and here is why I believe that is the case. How can ONE governing body (aka Congress) develop a social program that adequately meet the needs of thousands of communities across the US?

      Take poverty – Each community has different reasons for their poverty. Some because of a lack of jobs, others because of high cost of living, another because of bad schools, or high crime, or hundreds of other reasons. No social program developed by the federal goverment is going to be able to address each community’s individual needs.

      This is why our churches need to step up and get involved in our communities – because WE KNOW or can more easily figure out what the problems, barriers and solutions are! I don’t know what came first – the churches that dropped the ball, or the government that took over – but I’d rather push for churches stepping back up to the plate than for more federal government involvement. Especially a federal government that isn’t likely to be friendly towards faith based organizations.



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        Kenny

        posted May 20, 2010 at 7:39 am


        The issue is not whether or not the government should be involved in social justice, nor is it whether or not the Church sould be involved: the isssue is that Beck is telling people that churches that promote social justice are fronts for socialism.

        If you look in your community, you will see plenty of church programs that are helping the down trodden, the poor, the sick, and the beat down. The Church should obviously be involved in all of these things because that is what Christ called us to do.

        The problem, which the writer clearly addresses in the post, is that so many Christians follow Beck more than they follow the teachings of Christ. We are called to BE social justice in our world: to give away our material possesions, put on the whole armor of God and be the light in the darkness of our world.



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    Bre

    posted May 20, 2010 at 12:39 pm


    Well said! I am all about helping the poor by giving my time and money to different organizations in my community. I don’t think the government does a good job at all of helping the poor help themselves. The government does nothing well! I don’t really agree with Beck either but I do think we as Americans should help those less fortunate directly and bypass the government altogether.



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yshekster

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:16 pm


Well said Adam! There seems to be a convergence of ppl who are saying the same thing. Take courage. You are not alone.



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Rachel H. Evans

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:22 pm


Thanks for this level-headed, yet direct, response Adam. I’m encouraged! :-)



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shellie (baylormum)

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:26 pm


Ironically, while reading this post Mozilla crashed!! I blame it on Beck……

Like I said earlier, once those sound bites are public, they are truth. No amount of arguing is going to change the direction the sheep are heading. I don’t have the energy to stop people who believe such twisted, out-of-context crap. But, I must try to the best of my ability.

I like the reminder that we are NOT “remaking” God in our image instead of the other way around! Hello. We don’t just work God in where we have an opening in our busy schedule! Come on people! Time is too precious to reword the Bible to fit the year 2010. It wasn’t meant to be changed or taken out of context! It is standing the test of time.

I hope your wife is proud of your stand, Adam. It was well-written and on point. And simple.



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    Josh

    posted May 20, 2010 at 12:40 pm


    In all fairness, we are all sheep following different shepherds.



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Danny Bixby

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:37 pm


“Why are respected Christian leaders standing next to him and supporting his propaganda?”

Unfortunately, there are so many prominent leaders standing alongside of him.

But many are standing up to say that he was/is wrong. Though it isn’t on a national stage, I’m thrilled to say that my pastor has been one of them. Denouncing it locally may be a smaller scope, but it is just as important.

A sermon from two weekends ago was about social justice vs socialism.

We made a brief video teaser for the sermon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSbU2qSXKnY



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Crystal Lindell

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:41 pm


Well said.



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Dianna

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:44 pm


I have had this conversation with my parents (faithful Beck followers) time and time again. They got angry at me when I suggested that they should fact-check Beck’s “fact-checking,” at the very least in matters pertaining to social justice. It’s disturbing when they tell me that I need to fact check everything I hear about Beck, but that they don’t need to check what Beck says, because, heck, if he says he’s done the research, then it must be true…he couldn’t possibly be bringing his own lens to the work and “remaking” God in his image.

Sigh. It’s a frustrating conversation, but one that must go on.



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    Silica

    posted May 20, 2010 at 9:21 am


    I am so impressed when you say that you’ve had this conversation “time and time again” with your parents. I haven’t even been able to begin having the conversation because I get so frustrated with my parents, especially my father, who assumes that I am just “going through a phase” and has assumed so since I was about ten and began distancing myself from their views on the world.

    But the arguments they say “at” (not “to”) me are the exact same, and it makes me so sad that find Beck a more reliable source than me, who works in a social justice field and actually interacts with the poor every day (my parents live in a wealthy suburb and very rarely come into meaningful contact with those from different tax brackets).



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Carole Turner

posted May 19, 2010 at 8:45 pm


WOW! I have been researching and composing a blog post about Beck’s “Social Justice” rants but have yet to complete it. I’d like to copy and paste this on my blog if I can, I will of course say who wrote it. It’s 5 gazillion times better then what I could write.



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted May 19, 2010 at 10:18 pm


    DO IT!



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Jenn

posted May 19, 2010 at 10:42 pm


Thank you and in regards to the socialism complaint earlier – I will say that I think everything will work better when we stop viewing the government programs as evil or a source of evil, or somehow counteractive to the works of the Church – when rather we should consider them as a “partner,” for lack of a better term. While ideally the Church would be filling all the gaps – educating, clothing, feeding, healing via unbiased health care, housing and protecting the vulnerable – the reality is we can’t as things are. We can do a lot of these acts and yes we can in many unique ways do them with a more human directed angle, however on the grand scale we can’t – as such we need/petition our government to help us. Our need for that help is not weakness, it’s not “communism” or any other fear based term used, it is the acknowledgment that partnership (I use this term lightly as I am aware of Church and State) is in some cases a viable alternative.



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    Paul wilkerson

    posted May 20, 2010 at 8:49 pm


    Jen, you are right that we can do better. Our
    organization partners with the federal, state and
    local govts. We are faith based and deliver many of
    the services you mention. It can be done and it
    can work well. Our approach can meet an individuals
    unique needs, where as most govt social programs
    use a one size fits all approach, that patches a
    much deeper need.
    The Church can be very effective in this arena,
    and as a partner to federal agencies. Our fellowship
    is small and relatively middle class, but with the Lord’s
    help great good can is done. What if the Greater
    church became active and really, wisely committed?



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Justin Moore

posted May 20, 2010 at 2:13 am


I have to be honest, if it hadn’t been for a posting on facebook I never would have ran into your column. I just have one or two things to say. Before I get started I want you to know that I’ve never seen an episode of Glenn Beck fully, the video you linked was probably the longest I have ever watched the show. I still have absolutely no idea even what your name is.

When I was reading your article I couldn’t help but think that you were talking to yourself more then anyone else. With phrases like “Sadly, we Christians have a very pervasive tendency to remake God in our own image instead of the other way around. And we use Scripture as a tool to prop up what we already want to believe rather than allowing God’s story to change our hearts.” The same argument could be made for yourself. Especially when you talk about the “Sin of Sodom” as gluttony and selfishness. Has it been so long since you read the story that when the angels came to the city of Sodom after the entered Lot’s house. It was surrounded with men wanting to have sex with them? You don’t think that may have had something to do with the fire and brimstone God sent down from heaven to wipe them out? You’re right it was probably their selfishness and overeating that made God want to rain fire from heaven.

The only other thing I had to say was when you put quotation marks around “hard earned money”. The money I make is earned, it used to be I earned it a lot harder then I do now. I made some good choices and like to think I have a level head so I don’t have to work as hard now as I used to. There are lots of people out there who still work hard, just because maybe you or I don’t doesn’t mean that there aren’t people who do. The people who do still work hard for their money should be concerned about where the money the government takes from them is going. They did a poll several years ago with the Salvation Army with the amount of donations they receive in San Francisco as opposed to some random redneck village in Indiana. The numbers weren’t surprising since the Indiana town donated way more money to the organization to help the Salvation Army the the posh, over-paid elitists who live out in San Francisco. When asked why they don’t donate, they said it was the governments job to take care of the needy.

I know you probably won’t take any of this to heart, you’ll brush it off with all your other “fans” who hang on your every word. I know a comment that best identifies you, from someone I know you’ll love, yourself. “Instead, we get people passing themselves off as experts to support what is little more than political, social, and media propaganda.”

So please just because you have some tiny blog with way to much ad space on the internet like a bazillion other people doesn’t mean anything.



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    Adam Ellis

    posted May 20, 2010 at 7:18 am


    Justin Moore,

    As a point of clarification, if you’ll go back and read the first sentence of this post you’ll note that this was a guest post. It was not written by Matthew Paul Turner who runs this blog, but by me.

    A few points in response to your comments:

    a) I absolutely meant to include myself as one of the Christians who has a tendency to recreate God in our own image and uses the Bible as a tool to prop up what we already want to believe rather than allowing God’s story to change our hearts.” If you’ll notice, all of the pronouns in that section are self-inclusive (we, our, etc.). The argument could certainly be made of me. I make it, often. It’s also why I make a point to be in community and conversation with other people, to help me figure out where I’ve been doing exactly that. I sincerely hope that you are doing the same. When we presume to have God all figured out, it is no longer God that we are talking about.

    b) I am quite familiar with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah from Genesis. I am also familiar with the writings of the prophet Ezekiel when he speaks of this event in the voice of God (who I would consider an authority on the subject): “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.” (Ezekiel 16:49-50) Think of it like the directors commentary that sometimes comes when you buy a movie on DVD.

    c) I’m a bit unclear as to why you seem to feel personally offended by what I wrote to the extent that you felt you needed to engage in personal attacks, i.e. “I know you probably won’t take any of this to heart, you’ll brush it off with all your other ‘fans’ who hang on your every word. I know a comment that best identifies you, from someone I know you’ll love, yourself. ‘Instead, we get people passing themselves off as experts to support what is little more than political, social, and media propaganda.’ So please just because you have some tiny blog with way to much ad space on the internet like a bazillion other people doesn’t mean anything.” As you pointed out, we don’t know each other. I did not (and wouldn’t) attack you personally, or impugn your character. My comments are certainly open for discussion and dialogue (in fact, I welcome it). Where is the anger coming from?

    Grace and Peace,
    AE



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Alise

posted May 20, 2010 at 6:21 am


“To me, it seems they’ve allowed themselves to be co-opted and used. Multiple positions could be intelligently and compellingly argued by people of faith, if they would simply admit the complex nature of the argument. Instead, we get people passing themselves off as experts to support what is little more than political, social, and media propaganda.”

This pretty much sums up everything that I believe about the issue. It frustrates me to no end to see things where we might have legitimate disagreements that could be discussed turned into these massive straw man arguments that just get loud and abrasive. And we stir up this false enmity with people who have the same goals, even if we have different ideas on how to reach those goals. It’s maddening.



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Adam Lehman

posted May 20, 2010 at 7:28 am


My name is Adam, so I’m assuming your first sentence is referring to me. However, I did not write this article…

However, I wish i had….



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Gretchen

posted May 20, 2010 at 7:30 am


Love this:
“Now, for the record, I claim no affiliation to any political party, as I think political parties tend to demand a level of allegiance that I’m not willing (or at liberty) to give.”

Whether it’s a party or a religious or political leader…too many Christians are wearing labels or giving away allegiance that belongs to God.



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Chris

posted May 20, 2010 at 7:51 am


It is all hypocrisy, but it’s funny how most people tend to just point the finger at one side or the other. Conservatives point the finger at Jim Wallis, while progressives point at these guys who sit with Beck. In my opinion, I actually have less of a problem with Beck because he’s not actually a politician, nor is he a religious figure for that matter. He’s a guy with a show doing what he does; stirring the pot. Religious leaders should probably be advised to stay away from him. When Beck starts speaking at church’s on Sunday mornings, then we should all be concerned.



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted May 20, 2010 at 7:57 am


    Yeah, so true. Like Oprah… she’s just a girl with a show.



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Toby

posted May 20, 2010 at 8:00 am


I don’t do political discourse anymore, but will throw a great big AMEN to this one!



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Andy

posted May 20, 2010 at 9:09 am


This is hogwash.

Obama is a socialist communist Nazi trying to fake christianity to pass off his muslim agenda. (without a birth certificate, or any qualifications to run a country.)

Only kidding.

I’m a big fan of helping people.

Another note, when someone says something like, “Just to be clear, I’ve never watched an episode of Glenn Beck.” and then follow it up with direct quotes from last nights episode, It’s funny.



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Jess

posted May 20, 2010 at 9:14 am


YES. Thank you.



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Jennifer White

posted May 20, 2010 at 9:19 am


So very well said!! As well as a fantastic response from Adam Ellis to Justin Moore.



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Kyle Reed

posted May 20, 2010 at 9:28 am


To me it all comes back to money and attention.
You see at the beginning of the first clip Beck talk about the guys book and how it was ranked in the 400,000s or something like that and now it is number 2 on amazon.
Wow, I guess there are some benefits of agreeing with Beck because you sell a lot of books and make a lot of money.

My concern is the same as yours, the many christians that agree with this message and even use it as a source to go against the President as well as the government.

Honestly, this is why I never really want to debate politics with people. Because most of the points they make (myself included) are based off of personal opinion instead of research and study. Same with scripture. You talk to people about scripture and their opinion is based off of what they think instead of what it says.

Thanks for writing this.



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Larry Barnes

posted May 20, 2010 at 9:34 am


In regards to Beck’s comments:

I’ve wondered why Christians are taking any sort of religous advice about doing church from someone who is a Mormon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USpeolBTKIo



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David Knapp

posted May 20, 2010 at 9:49 am


I used to like Glenn a few years ago. I liked him for his humor but lately he has gotten really weird. Him advising me on which church I should attend was the last straw for me.

Between him and the rest of politics I have just decided to not care about it. I am a political agnostic.

I belong to God and my citizenship is in His kingdom.



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Adam Metz

posted May 20, 2010 at 11:16 am


Adam (Ellis :-)

Interesting you posted in regards to this show. I watch Beck once in awhile as an outside observer (I am a pacifist). I just happened to be working out at the gym the day before this episode ran and saw a commercial for it and thought the topics being addressed were relevant to me (also a pastor), and my congregation (full of Beck followers). So, I dvr-ed and watched it last night before I went to bed. I, too, contemplated a post (though I think I’ll post yours and wait for a bit of feedback and post a follow-up).

Beck’s over-the-top rants and flare for the dramatic make him a challenging person to critique level-headedly – easy to get caught up in all his antics. There was so much to respond to, I wanted to take a few days to reflect before posting – your thoughts here help springboard some of mine. Here are a few disconnected reflections:

1 – This entire Beck vs. social justice chapter of Fox news is exposing a terribly frightening allegiance – American Christians are showing their political allegiances to be stronger than their faith allegiance. Think about it . . . you’ve got a Mormon teaching Bible lessons to evangelical Christians (who by all accounts would probably question his salvation), but politically and economically listen to his exegesis on these matters. If there isn’t anything scarier than that! The Westminister and Liberty representatives show how infiltrated the church has become.

2 – The use of the parable of the talents as quasi-support of free market capitalism is atrocious scholarship and calls into question Fallwell’s entire theological paradigm.

3 – Beck’s insistence that “social justice” is going to the end of the church shows he has not read the Bible and its insistence that nothing can overcome the kingdom. It is disappointing to see his fear-mongering so effective with Christians whose hope is in the Risen Lord . . . not the mighty empire.

4 – Beck’s insistence on labels makes productive conversation almost impossible. If you’re a Marxist . . . your evil. To assign such a title to the great Dorothy Day and Jim Wallis (even if he over-involves himself in the politics of the state for me) . . . but to ignore them and assign them as evil – again, not biblical. Social justice cries out in the midst of the pain and suffering in our world. It mourns reports – like the one that came out today – acknowledging the income gap between blacks and whites continues to grow. It is too bad the professors didn’t take the time to address Mr. Beck on the teaching of the Old Testament prophets – free-market capitalists clearly they were not.

5 – Glenn Beck’s imagination is limited to the world around him. Christians see the world through the prophetic imagination of the Old Testament prophets and even Jesus himself. God can do amazing things with things that don’t make sense (even political or fiscal sense). Shame on all Christians who buy into his “the sky is falling” rhetoric which rips the heart and soul out of the Gospel itself. Yet another chapter in how the church has been so comprised by the Gospel.

6 – Churches do lots of good things. There are innumerable great programs that function at the denominational level and other para-church programs that function interdenominationally. As a pacifist, I believe this is the way social programs should be funded. However, this needn’t be mutually exclusive of government programs and funding. Most social programs I am a part of or have been a part of depend on government money at some level. Perhaps state welfare has made the church lazy as well. The kind of money it takes to address the ills of society takes a greater generosity than even Glenn Beck (who gloats of his incredible penchant for benevolence in this episode). I appreciate the sentiment, but, speaking in the midst of the grind, I don’t see how our social programs function at a broad enough level without some form of government money. Perhaps I am not dreaming big enough. Perhaps I don’t have enough confidence in the church. Or, perhaps, God is at work even through the state. One thing we must be clear on – and Adam you state it well – the Bible is not for or against either system.



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albert

posted May 20, 2010 at 11:44 am


The problem here is that BO sat in a “church” for 20 years that was nothing more than a severely brain-washing, Marxist tent revival. He is now imposing it on us. It is communism. Those of you who are so ignorant of history that you do not understand communism is a GodLESS culture, and actually believe social, economic, and environmental justice, imposed by the government SHOULD be our new religion, well there is nothing else to say is there? That IS what is happening. You cannot mention Jesus in a public place, or sing Christmas carols, but your preacher telling you that Christ wants you to know that what He really meant to say was Al Gore and Barack Obama have the power to save the planet.

Father forgive them, for they know what they do..



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    Adam Ellis

    posted May 20, 2010 at 1:13 pm


    Albert,
    Is that what you got out of what I wrote. At what point did I propose any of the things you have articulated here? At what point did I show myself to be “ignorant of history”? At what point did I propose unquestioning support for Barack Obama (I assume that’s who you were referring to by “B.O.”.) or Al Gore, or any political party? At what point did I endorse Marxism? Where did I propose that government mandated social programs should be our new religion? I would greatly appreciate it if you could point it out to me, because I did not mean to say any of those things.

    However, if you have trouble finding those things anywhere in this blog post, I’d like to offer some suggestions, as I’d really like your voice to be in the conversation:

    a) It might be better to type the president’s name out. I know it takes a little more time, but it will be helpful. You might not know this, but B.O. is also a popular acronym that’s used to refer to body odor. I’d imagine that you were unaware of this fact and did this inadvertently, because to purposely link a person you disagree with to something universally disliked is a textbook example of cheap propaganda. Such a move (even if it is accidental) greatly impairs your ability to be be heard by others or seen as reasonable.

    b) When the rhetoric presented as a response to, lets say, a blog post seems to not respond to anything that was actually in the blogpost or the comments, but instead resembles rhetoric (sometimes verbatim) from talk radio and cable news shows…it gives the impression that you are merely quoting disjointed talking points from these sources. This may give the impression that you are not interested in any kind of engagement with anyone else…that your mind is made up…and that you are simply quoting what you’ve heard to re-enforce your position to yourself. My assumption is that you have something to contribute here, but in this case, your contribution may be getting lost in the noise.

    To be clear, I don’t agree with everything you said in your comments. I’d question some of your assumptions. I’d like to hear you more fully explain some of what you propose. However, all of the signals you are putting of send the message that you aren’t interested in talking “with” anyone who sees things differently than you do…and its a shame.

    Grace and Peace,
    AE



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Jeff

posted May 20, 2010 at 12:01 pm


Christians need to stop listening to people like Glenn Beck (on the right) and Jim Wallis (on the left). They’re just two sides of the same coin. Then we need to sell all of our church buildings and use the money to actually start doing the work Jesus called us to do.



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted May 20, 2010 at 12:37 pm


    No, Beck and Wallis are in no way two sides of the same coin. Though you might disagree with Wallis on issues and the methods he chooses to use, his desire to help the poor cannot be compared to Beck’s desire for ratings, to entertain, and beat last year’s salary of $17M.



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      Brandon

      posted May 20, 2010 at 1:30 pm


      Wow… Matthew.

      Without jumping into the fray, I think its very difficult to discount Beck in comparison Wallis because of “Beck’s desire for ratings, to entertain, and beat last year’s salary of $17M.” I would be very careful about judging someone’s heart for the poor and oppressed based on their salary.

      I disagree with many issues and methods with both Beck and Wallis, but I am slow to question their salvation. They should be ashamed of questioning each others’ if they have.



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        Matthew Paul Turner

        posted May 20, 2010 at 1:42 pm


        Brandon, that’s why I wrote “ratings, entertainment, and the $17M he made last year…” He may give all of that money to the poor, but it still doesn’t change the fact that the things he says on TV are in hopes of generating ratings, entertainment value, and money. That’s all I meant by that comment.



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    Dolores Lear

    posted May 21, 2010 at 6:16 pm


    I agree. Jesus only went to a Synagogue to debate Scripture, not to worship. Temples made by Human Hands are Pagan Temples. Life and our Planet are God’s Temples. And God’s Resources should be Shared Equally, like the birds, bees, etc., like Jesus said Humans should Share the Earth’s Resources Equally, not stack them up in barns, while other were homeless and starving. Jesus was definitely a ‘a ‘Common’ist, not a Capitalist.



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Doug Hannah

posted May 20, 2010 at 12:32 pm


With all due respect to Adam, I think this article addresses the issues at stake here more accurately and fully.

http://bit.ly/c6Lea8



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted May 20, 2010 at 12:40 pm


    Writing “with all due respect” is usually a prelude to disrespect. Adam never claimed to have written the best response to Beck, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish with your comment?



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    Carole Turner

    posted May 20, 2010 at 1:23 pm


    With all due respect that article is way to stinkin’ long!



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Josh

posted May 20, 2010 at 12:49 pm


I have divided my favourite parts of this interview into two sections.

Favourite part #1
At one point George Lillback says that the term social justice is not in the Bible. Well, neither is the term rapture but try getting this guy to refute that (btw…he would be out of a job if he did.)

Favourite part # 2
Glenn Beck says that progressives change the wording/name of an idea or a platform just so that it connects with the masses. Doesn’t every group with a platform or belief do that?

I just think it is hilarious that they are actually trying to say that social justice is a left wing conspiracy.

Another thing, how does green initiatives play into social justice… totally confused!



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SLPintheSAV

posted May 20, 2010 at 12:58 pm


I guess for me it boils down to the fact that money doesn’t change or help the poor. People change and help those living in poverty. I have no objection to pouring my money into helping those who need it but I am frustrated with people who think that is all they need or that by throwing enough money at them everything will magically be fixed. They don’t need money they need love, they need the people of the church not just some organization or government to throw money at them. That is the reason I find government programs inadequate and why I dislike tax increases to fund programs I believe to be counter productive in general. My church does a wonderful ministry in the lower income area of our little city and I have spent time actually getting to know those people. In some instances they may need financial help but most of all they need help and education about how they can actually pull out of the endless cycle of poverty they find their families in generation after generation. They have seen the church AND the government come in and give them money and handouts. They have had churches who have come to witness to them only to tell them they need Jesus and leave the next day. We have heard they cry of those who said “you guys are the first people to stick around”. God was about building relationships with the poor and the broken not just financial handouts. So can we agree to stop arguing about who’s responsibility it is to finance the operation and just get out there and love on some people and TRUELY change lives.



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    nate

    posted May 20, 2010 at 5:33 pm


    God was about building relationships with the poor and the broken not just financial handouts.

    jesus encouraged this, though, from a position of humility. he told the rich young man to sell everything and give it to the poor. he sent his disciples off and told them to bring nothing. he himself shed the glory of Godhood, in order to live as human.

    what i’m saying is that i agree with this point, but want to make sure that the second part of what you said–”not just financial handouts”–doesn’t get overlooked. throwing money at the problem of poverty doesn’t fix it, but neither does not throwing money at it



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    Orange

    posted May 20, 2010 at 6:43 pm


    You know… sometimes money DOES change the poor… and sometimes “people” just get in the way…



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      nate

      posted May 20, 2010 at 6:50 pm


      also very, very true.



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    DDP

    posted May 24, 2010 at 3:31 pm


    Very good points SLPintheSAV. It seems like most of this argument revolves around the definition of social justice. My response would be for those who are proponents of government social justice as a way of legislating Jesus’ commands.

    First of all, Jesus was not a political figure. The Jews were looking for a messiah who would come and deliver them from the Romans. In other words, they wanted a political messiah. And that is why most of the Jews rejected Jesus. He wanted their hearts, not an earthly throne. In Matthew 22, the Pharisees asked Jesus if it was right to pay taxes or not. Jesus answered “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s”. In other words, the politics of the day were a completely separate and non-related issue from what Jesus’ purpose was. He frequently spoke of caring for the poor and oppressed, but it was always a command to people as individuals, not to a government or legislative body. Jesus says YOU go do this, not have somebody else do it for you. The story of the rich young ruler in Matthew 19 is an example of that. I think there can be a danger in trying to legislate Jesus from government when he was so purposefully separate from politics during his time on earth.

    Going off of what I said at the end of the previous paragraph, free will is a huge part of Christianity. We make a free will decision to accept Christ. After that, we have a choice to do his will or to not do it. It comes down to a matter of the heart. Among those choices are what we give or don’t give. Jesus commands us to give of ourselves, but obviously not all Christians do that. And yet, Jesus doesn’t force us. Sometimes it would be nice if he did, but he gives us free will to choose for ourselves. I think this is also relevant to government if people are looking for government to legislate Jesus’ commands. 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 says, “Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver”. Those of us who give to the church or other organizations that help the needy, do so cheerfully and because we want to. It’s our choice just like it was to accept Christ in the first place. On the other hand, I don’t know too many people who are cheerful about paying taxes. Plus, you don’t have a choice in the matter. Jesus’ appeal for social justice in the Bible was for individuals to give of what they had, as much as they could, according to their own heart. The 2 Corinthians passage also points out that there is very good reason to give generously, but it’s not forced. We should not make what Jesus says is a matter of the heart, a matter of government.

    The last point I want to make is that our faith is based on relationships. It begins with our relationship with Christ and then extends to our relationships with each other. Reliance on a government program for social justice eliminates any relational aspect. People helping people is always better than government helping people. Just think how much you benefit from actually getting to know someone? An actual relationship can provide someone with a lot more than just the financial support they may have needed initially. Most of the people I know who came to know Christ, did so because of the friendship of someone in their life. We shouldn’t rely on the government to be doing something that Jesus calls us to do.

    True social justice begins with each one of us obeying Jesus’ commands, not getting the government to do it through programs. Can government programs be helpful? Absolutely. But they should not replace what we are called to do as Christians. That begins with us as individuals, and it’s individuals who make up the church. If we more seriously follow God’s command to give generously and cheerfully, I think that will eliminate much of the need for government programs. But again, government should not be in the business of legislating Jesus’ commands.



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      Paul wilkerson

      posted May 24, 2010 at 6:24 pm


      AMEN!



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      Adam Ellis

      posted May 24, 2010 at 7:04 pm


      DDP,

      Among other things in the post, I said:

      “Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think scripture mandates government-enforced socialism or communism (which are not the same thing). However, it should be noted that under the Mosaic Law, redistribution was actually mandated in some ways i.e. “leaving the edges of your field unharvested for the poor,” and the “year of Jubilee”. But scripture doesn’t advocate unregulated free-market capitalism, either…”

      “Do we care more about the government trying to take our “hard-earned money” to help the poor and oppressed than we care about the fact that they are poor and oppressed?…”

      “Are we so troubled by the plight of the poor and oppressed that we wrestle with the complex nature of the problem and the inadequate solutions offered by political leaders on all sides, or are we suckers for T.V. personalities whose confident, righteous-sounding rhetoric gives us ways to justify our selfishness, greed, and/or prejudice?”

      I’m just not really clear on what you are responding to. That’s not to say I completely agree with your exegesis,but you seem to be addressing countering arguments I didn’t really make.

      Grace and Peace,
      AE



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        Paul wilkerson

        posted May 24, 2010 at 7:38 pm


        Is it not the President who is doing exactly
        what you accuse Beck of? Trying to Co-opt
        the churches to his political view? Is it unfair
        for both sides to use the same strategy?
        Those who don’t believe in big government
        are accused in these entries of not caring
        for the poor and oppressed? That’s grace and
        mercy? If we prefer Christian actions to
        government we are greedy and selfish?
        I guess judgement has been passed.
        God knows who is giving and who is serving.
        Let’s let Him judge each others motives.
        Let’s be about our Fathers business, doing
        what we can do, advocating for our beliefs,
        and trying to love each other as we serve.



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          Adam Ellis

          posted May 24, 2010 at 8:12 pm


          Paul,
          Where in my post did I make the accusation that those who don’t believe in big government don’t care about the poor and oppressed? Where did I indicate that it was o.k. for democrats and/or the Obama administration to co-opt churches?

          I believe my post argued for followers of Jesus to engage with scripture and the issues at hand, and to not be such easy marks for those from all sides who would co-opt us, offering inadequate solutions.

          Again, you seem to be responding to arguments I did not make.

          Grace and Peace,
          AE



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Beat Up Because of Beck

posted May 20, 2010 at 1:36 pm


“And why in the world do so many people of faith feel the need to be at this man’s beck and call and serve his agenda rather than the agenda of Christ?”

I simply posted the link to this article saying I agreed with it – and a man, a Christian, came on Facebook and attacked me. He talked about the “liberal regime” redistributing wealth and blamed a budget cut at the church where I was formerly on staff on said “liberal regime.” He wrote that “certain people who have been laid off from churches because of budget cuts should certainly be paying more attention to the truth Glenn Beck has to say”

Yea… sure. My husband and I were laid off from a church because of Obama and his evil regime. Not because of mismanagement of funds by an unqualified Business Administrator. The sad thing is – this is most likely the story the church is telling. How pitiful that they will not even admit fault and instead they summon the specter of the “liberal recession” and hope it covers over their sin and their culpability for their terrible financial state. And people like this guy eat it up.

How crazy of this man to write me and try to tell me how to interpret the utter demolition of my family financially by this church’s decisions? I deleted his comment and wrote him back that I felt his comment to me terribly insensitive and an attack. He deleted me as a friend on Facebook. Why am I not surprised?

Glenn Beck has them all drinking the kool-aid.

The scary thing about GB is that people LISTEN to his nonsense and they are furious. They are irrational and see any thought provoking reasonable argument against him as still more evidence of a liberal conspiracy.

I don’t get it, but I know I want Jesus to come back and put a stop to it. Because what GB spouts is NOT truth, and the way Christians embrace it is not righteous.



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    Silica

    posted May 20, 2010 at 1:55 pm


    I feel ya.

    Everyone else in my family has been drinking that kool-aid for a long, long time. And every time I see or talk to them, they try and tell me how wrong I am, and will invent all kinds of crazy stuff (or borrow his) to discuss why my point of view is a fundamental threat to the ordering of society.

    People take this guy seriously. It is scary and sad.



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shellie (baylormum)

posted May 20, 2010 at 2:00 pm


With all due respect, I think I am going to take a shower. Feel kinda grungy after reading some of the comments! No wonder non-believers (and believers) get such a mixed message of God!! I never knew God had a political affiliation. Ever. People made this mess and expect someone else will clean up the mess. Make it all nice & purdy & tie a ribbon on it & say “we helped the ______ (insert appropriate group here)”. I don’t need any political party to tell me what I can or cannot do to help my fellow man/woman. I do it from my heart.

I was disgusted by people in Seattle over the weekend. On the busier street corners holding signs with a picture of B.O. (You know, Barak Obama, the PRESIDENT) with a Hitler-type moustache. Said they represented the Libertarian party. Graffiti does not help your cause! Across the street? “Save the Palestinian homeland”. Change the world from the streets of Seattle. Wow! Who knew!!! And yet, kids who wear American flags on their shirts on Cinco de Mayo get criticized?? We have gone over the edge of the cliff. There is no common ground left when you step over that edge! Nothing. Just air. I don’t want to die that way! I love this country. This earth. Scare-facts don’t appeal to me. Fair & Balanced. Hey, cable news executives, you have some very ONE-sided people on your network.

I hate these kind of discussions! I’m glad I can think & research facts on my own. I don’t have to rely on any one persons “facts”. Whew!



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Adam Metz

posted May 20, 2010 at 2:10 pm


Shellie,

Good post. I hate the image this back-and-forth and infighting must leave for the nonbeliever. Why enter that mess? Geez. I wonder what the best way for our engagement in such matters should be? Ignore? Never watch the talk shows, never comment on the posts? Probably more of that than anything. Salt and light . . . salt and light . . . somehow we must show salt and light through this. Forgive me for the times that salt and light aren’t shining through my comments. Thanks again.



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    shellie (baylormum)

    posted May 20, 2010 at 6:16 pm


    Adam M,

    I feel I need to stay informed. To a degree. There is so darn much material out there in our cyber-world! It is overwhelming! What scares me the most is that so many people take 1 sound bite and run with it. In my mind, there is always more than one to look at something. Except for one thing. God’s Word. And it is taken out of context a gazillion times a day! I don’t want to live my life out on the air beyond the edge of the cliff! It seems to me like people like to live in the chaos of what they believe. That is not living! As an addict in recovery (and also rededicated my life to Christ), I look to each day as a new day. Yesterday is over & tomorrow hasn’t come yet. Life is too short to bicker & run like Chicken Little. Thinking for ones self is a start.



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Nick

posted May 20, 2010 at 2:53 pm


After watching several video clips where Beck mentions churches who align themselves with “Social Justice,” I think this article either misses what Beck says in its entirety or its been purposely ignored.

Glenn Beck was actually very clear on laying out what he was referring to with this subject. In fact he distinguishes “Social Justice” from Jesus’ point of view and “Social Justice” from the point of view of the church aligning itself with the government for redistributive purposes. In the video linked below he said “Here’s simple rule of thumb, make sure your church puts God first and politics and government last.” – I think we can all agree with that.- I do believe however that the article above becomes mute when it paints Beck in a negative lights based on a topic that has been taken out of context and that has been mis-characterized by those who disagree with Beck’s political views.

Here’s one of the videos I referenced above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9clRzX1aWrk



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Adam Ellis

posted May 20, 2010 at 3:20 pm


Nick,
I’m not at all sure how to respond to your comments. They sort of come across like someone asking, “Hey! Did you ever stop beating your wife?” As, I’ve never done anything even remotely close to that, there’s so much off about the question that one can’t even answer it on it’s own terms. I really don’t believe I’ve misunderstood Beck, and I certainly would never intentionally misconstrue his words or thought. Your implication seems to be that I am either stupid or dishonest. I am certainly a fallible human being, and so the possibility certainly exists that I may have misunderstood. I assure you however, that I have made every attempt to understand his argument before critiquing it, and to depict it accurately.

I wouldn’t even want people to just read this post without actually watching the clips (the one you posted included). I wouldn’t ask people to “take my word for it”. Rather than debating you, I’m fine with letting people watch the videos (your link included), and make up their own minds.

BTW…Beck also says “It doesn’t matter what God you worship” in the clip, and that “principles” are what’s really important. I find that to be a deeply problematic statement too.

Grace and Peace,
AE



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    Nick

    posted May 20, 2010 at 7:05 pm


    Adam,
    I have to admit that I have not seen all of the clips of Beck talking about Social Justice, so my comments were coming from the basis of what I have seen. I said, “I think this article either misses what Beck says in its entirety or its been purposely ignored,” because to be honest, I don’t know you and comparing what was implied by the article and what I have seen on video, I didn’t see any other avenue that one could take to come up with your arguments outside of “missing” the full context or “ignoring” the context.

    I am definitely not trying to attack you, especially over an opinion. I personally did not see my comments being any different than your saying, “Glenn Beck badly mis-characterizes “social justice” in the video clip.” – If my comment came across as an attack (Hey! Did you ever stop beating your wife kind of tone) I apologize.



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Lisa S

posted May 20, 2010 at 6:23 pm


The only thing I want to say, as an atheist, is that I’m thankful for Adam letting me know that Beck doesn’t represent all Christians. It makes me feel good. I feel like there’s room for all of us on this planet.

When religious leaders start to agree with people like Beck, those of us that are non-theists start to lump all into the same category. Sort of the same way most religious people lump atheism with Satanism. It’s peeps like MPT that sets us straight.

Oh, and thank you for saying that COMMUNISM is NOT the same as SOCIALISM. Big difference.

MPT…I’m really grateful for your site as well.



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Dolores Lear

posted May 21, 2010 at 7:32 am


Is this God Social Justice, or Government Social Justice? Or?
The Bible’s only Newness, is when the Bible, especially Genesis 1-8, is Read with a High Tech Science Translation of Colonization and Reproducing the Female from the Male Rib. Otherwise it is the same-o same-o Supernatural Power of Gods ‘in our image’, taught to Children, from Generation to Generation of Humans without High Tech Science.
The High Tech Science ‘Killer’ Humans of the Noah/Atlantis Society, are also translated as God, who were like our High Tech Science Killer Humans Species today. Life did not just Evolve up to High Tech Killer Science today, but was in our Past also, recorded in Religion and Myth.
The LORD rained brimstone and fire out of heaven on Sodom and Gomorrah. We have an equal experience, with our High Tech, when the USA bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki the same way with fire from heaven, called Atomic bombs today.



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted May 21, 2010 at 7:36 am


    You sound like a sweetie, Dolores! Full of good news, huh?



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      Andrea

      posted May 21, 2010 at 10:47 am


      LOL! MPT, that is my favorite comment thus far!



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JL

posted May 21, 2010 at 8:27 am


Care for the orphans and the widows should be of your free will and not the mandate of the government. The social justice that is being instigated by the government at this time is not one of biblical teaching. While I do not agree with all comments and beliefs of Glenn Beck (and you would be a fool to think he isn’t in error in some of it). The churches need to teach Christians how to give out of their hearts and with their hands. We need a revival in the mission field (domestic as well as international) not the political realm. We should be willing to give all but I don’t think that means to the government to distribute in their twisted version of “social justice”. Allowing that would not show us as good stewards of God’s blessing.

I do know that Glenn Beck has encouraged that we engage in the dialogue with our churches. To strengthen and support our pastors that may be put in a really hard position (harder than it is now). He also encourages people to question what is being preached at the pulpit in a respectful way. Which I think is healthy. He said that if you hear rhetoric like that of Jeremiah Wright to walk way from that.

I wonder if this is more of you not liking Glenn Beck than thinking he is really wrong. Which is cool too, but examine the motives is all I am saying.



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    Andrea

    posted May 21, 2010 at 11:01 am


    Ummm, nope, JL. I am preeeeetty sure Adam and MPT (and me… okay, and the majority of everyone else commenting here) think Beck is is really wrong.

    But to your point – I do not like Beck. This is due, however, to him being (incredibly, ridiculously, insanely) wrong.



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      JL

      posted May 21, 2010 at 11:06 pm


      My point exactly. Thanks for helping to prove it all the more. :) Thank you for at least saying it is because he annoys you for being incredibly ridiculous. However, there are posts that have pointed out your error in representation of what was said by Glenn Beck. Typical response is that of defensiveness. Doesn’t lend much to an open dialogue of ideas.



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        JL

        posted May 21, 2010 at 11:08 pm


        LOL — and I am sure you are wanting the last word too. So go ahead feel free. Unless you would like Delores to jump in and take over for ya. :-D



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Dolores Lear

posted May 21, 2010 at 8:37 am


http://donmilleris.com/

“I’ve heard this little phrase in Christian circles that says “you can be the person God designed you to be.” The implications of the phrase are:
1. You are not the person God designed you to be and
2. The speaker or writer has some sort of formula that is going to help you become who God intended for you to be.” -

Moses repeats one descriptive phrase over and over, that before the fall, people walked around naked and weren’t ashamed.”

God/Us did Colonize Earth with High Tech Science, and did Reproduce Adult Females from the Male Rib; Clones should not Reproduce. When Male Lust to their Female Clones began, Misbred Children were born with all types of Genetic and Physical Defects. Human Killing began and Divisions and Governments, Religions, and War began on Earth.

There was no Guilt, and all the problems that happen with the Heterosexual Reproduction Generation Lifestyle of Birth, Death, and Rebirth, was Bared to all Misbred Humans ever since. And Misbred Humans have almost destroyed the God Colonization of a null and void Earth.



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    Toby

    posted May 21, 2010 at 8:47 am


    And with that, MPT, it’s time to unsubscribe from this thread :D



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      Matthew Paul Turner

      posted May 21, 2010 at 8:58 am


      Me too, Toby. :)



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        Dolores Lear

        posted May 21, 2010 at 9:17 am


        Why not prove me wrong boys.



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          Dolores Lear

          posted May 21, 2010 at 9:30 am


          The God I am referring to is our High Tech Ancestors from Space, ‘in or human image’, that are Male and Female Clone Peace Helpmeets, that Colonized Earth as another Space Base. They are not the ‘Supernatural Killer Gods of Religion and Myth. They do have Eternal Physical Life, After Clone Birth, on Planets and in Spaceships.



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        Andrea

        posted May 21, 2010 at 11:07 am


        I think Dolores is actually my college writing professor.



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          Dolores Lear

          posted May 21, 2010 at 11:16 am


          I am an 88 year old female and only finished High School. All this Knowledge started happening to me in 19971 when I was 49, and I still do not have any followers. Especially since the Sexual Revolultion of the past 100 years, when we had a Population Explosion from 1 Billion Humans in 1900 to 7 Billion in 2011. To follow Jesus is to be Celibate Heterosexuals. GLBTs do not Reprouduce unless they do Heterosexual Sex or had artificial insemination.



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Dolores Lear

posted May 21, 2010 at 9:42 am


Social Justice is the ‘Common’ism Jesus taught while he was on Earth with his Celibate Disciples. Jesus was Celibate and taught that Humans were supposed to Share Equally God’s Resources with all Life on Earth like the Birds and Bees, our Eco System and Ozone Canopy.
Now Kill all these Life Species Like Humans has done and are doing today with their Inequality and Injustice, and Toxic Nuclear Pollution and Oil Spills on land and sea that is setting up the Planetary Judgment Day Fire prophecied in Religion.



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Danny Bixby

posted May 21, 2010 at 9:44 am


This went downhill fast



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Dolores Lear

posted May 21, 2010 at 9:55 am


It is Time for High Tech Humans today to Translate all Supernatural Events in Religion and Myth with a High Tech Science Translation of Eternal Human Life on Planets and in Spaceships. Were Scriptures the Science Fiction of the Past or Literal Truth now that we Know how to Colonize a Planet and Reproduce Life in a High Tech Lab?



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Onzeba

posted May 21, 2010 at 10:21 am


“If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment. For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either. If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness. Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time-He who is the blessed an only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen
Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed. O Timothy, guard what hs been entrusted to you, avoiding worldy and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called ‘knowledge’ which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.” 1 Timothy 6:3-21



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    Dolores Lear

    posted May 21, 2010 at 11:28 am


    Paul teaches alot of Jesus teachings but Paul had a problem with Celibacy. Some think the thorn in his side was blindness, but Paul was only blinded from the Light above with Jesus, for only 3 days.
    Acts 9:9. KJV. “And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.”



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Dolores Lear

posted May 21, 2010 at 11:10 am


Jesus is Alive and with the God/Us of Genesis, who are still Alive since they Colonized Earth. Once Humans ‘fell’ to the Lower Human Nature of Heterosexual Body Birth, they had to go through the Generations of Birth, Death, and Rebirth.
Paul had an experience with Jesus up in a ‘flying saucer’ light, and the disciples knew the Male should be celibate, from Jesus’ teachings.
1John3:8,9. KJV. “He that committeth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannnot sin, because he is born of God.”

The male seed does remain in Male and Female Clones and they Reproduce Purebred Humans like the Eve’s were made from the Adam’s rib. We know about stem cell reproduction today also. It is not Supernatural anymore, but High Tech Science like ‘in the beginning in Genesis 1,2.



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Carole Turner

posted May 21, 2010 at 11:44 am


Delores are you a Scientologist or maybe blogging while on Acid? Sorry, had to ask.



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    Dolores Lear

    posted May 21, 2010 at 12:11 pm


    No I am not any Religion now that I Know the High Tech Science explanation of Religious Scriptures and Myth. I was a member from birth until 50 years old of the Missouri Lutheran Church, where I learned a lot about the Bible teaching Sunday School, and in the Adult Bible Class. Then this experience all of a sudden happened to me as we were studying the Noah Flood in Bible Class. and I under the Noah Flood in Genesis 7,8 lasted 1 year, 1 month, and 27 days. And that it was the same event in Earth’s past as the Sinking of Atlantis. Both land areas were split down the middle and sank, as our flat map shows Earth today. From then on, all this other High Tech acceptance came about with Adam and Eve, and the End Times destruction of our Earth with our Toxic Pollution Dumps, all Nuclear Waste on land and in the early day, buried in concrete in the Pacific Ocean. Along with all our Nuclear Weapons it will be Humans that destroy our Planet, Eco System, and Ozone Canopy, not the God/Us in Genesis that are our Human High Tech Ancestors that Colonized Earth as a new Planet Base.
    Revelation 7, 14, explain that God/Us will return with Jesus, to save 144,000 Virgin Males to take to the new Planet they are Colonizing. This group of males will be like the Adam group that was brought to Earth in Genesis 1,2, when the Female Clones were Reproduced. This is a simplier way to Colonize a Planet with a larger new Colony.



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Brandon

posted May 21, 2010 at 12:53 pm


Have to say — I don’t think I’ve laughed so hard in a long time. As a church planter in Africa, we don’t get many stories like this.

(and kudos on the original article too. I’m likely going to excerpt on my site…)



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Dolores Lear

posted May 21, 2010 at 3:04 pm


Everyone is searching for their Soul Mate on Earth, but only Female Clones are Soul Mates in Life. They have the Same Genetic and Physical Soul Human Mate . Who is a Persons Husband or Wife Soul Mate in Heaven, when they have many Mates or Spouses on Earth? In the Past, this is why the Female was a Virgin, and the couple stayed married, to be Soulmates in their Religious Heaven.



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Jen Wells

posted May 21, 2010 at 3:04 pm


Oh my – I am glad I checked this post again and took a look at these comments. Seriously hilarious. And here I was thinking I’d get all fired up again…



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Jesse Wick

posted May 21, 2010 at 3:39 pm


This post & many of the comments reminded me of Michael Kinsley’s column in the latest Atlantic about the Tea Party movement. Self-interest masquerading as morality, patriotism, and civic virtue has become the lingua franca of far too much of our political discoure – and, unfortunately, of our religious discourse as well.



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    Jesse Wick

    posted May 21, 2010 at 3:43 pm


    I meant the comments up at the top of the thread, not the ones toward the bottom. Those don’t remind me of anything I’ve seen outside the Book of the Sub-Genius. Except they were kidding.



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Dolores Lear

posted May 21, 2010 at 5:23 pm


Why would I be kidding about what is recorded in Genesis 1, about the same Steps God ‘in our image’, took to Create Life on Earth is the Same steps a High Tech Science Society would use to Colonize a Planet. Why did the Humans in the Past take so much care to Translate all this information so carefully?

Was this a Supernatural Act, or High Tech Science Colonization? Were the writers and translators kidding? Is Genesis 1 a Joke, or Fact? Or, did Life really Evolve on Earth, and all these Religious Writings and Myth were Past Science Fiction writings?

Do Christians accept the Old Testament today? Why does Genesis 1 and 2 have the High Tech information about Cloning the female from the male Rib? Is this Supernatural Reproduction, or High Tech Science Cloning Reproduction in a High Tech Lab? Were the writers and translators kidding? Is Genesis 1,2 a Joke, or Science Fiction, or a High Tech Fact?

Genesis 1:26a,27, 2:21,22 KJV. “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: – So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. – And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.”

What is supernatural about these God ‘in our image’ actions today? We put Humans into a deep sleep also to have operations.



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Dolores Lear

posted May 21, 2010 at 5:35 pm


We do Create Human Fetus’ in the Lab and Clone Animals. What is Supernatural about this today?
We also reproduce Atom and Nuclear Bombs and all types of Killing Pollution and Oil Spills with our High Tech Science. Why? A Death Wish for a Planetary Fire on our Earth Home, blamed on God for the End times of Life on Earth?



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    Dolores Lear

    posted May 22, 2010 at 7:07 am


    High Tech Research today, into Colonizing a new Planet, and Artificial cells and Cloning is not Anti-Biblical. Using High Tech for weapons of mass destruction is Anti-Biblical.

    http://www.kansascity.com/2010/05/21/1961573/vatican-gives-creation-of-synthetic.html

    How long have the Human Writings been handed down, by Humans without High Tech Science, that Life on Earth was Created ‘Supernaturally’, and Eve was Reproduced from Adam’s rib? Were these Ancient Writings and Myths, High Tech ‘Science Fiction’, or Fact, when translated with our High Tech Science Knowledge today?



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      Dolores Lear

      posted May 22, 2010 at 7:21 am


      “Scientific discoveries must ultimately benefit”
      What benefit have we had from scientific discoveries of Atom and Nuclear bombs and Nuclear Waste that cannot be destroyed and is pollution our Home Planet?



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        Dolores Lear

        posted May 22, 2010 at 8:41 am


        Why do Humans accept Satan’s Killing High Tech Powers and Reject God’s Lifegiving High Tech Powers, of Eternal Physical Life After Birth on Planets and in Spaceships, as it was ‘in the Beginning’ of Life on Earth, in Genesis 1,2?



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g

posted May 26, 2010 at 4:25 am


I don’t know where to begin. This blog irritates and annoys the living f**k out of me! This post especially sent me over the edge. I could give a flying fig about Glenn Beck, but the “social justice” kick that all the hipster christians are on is about to make me chuck! This is a fad and nothing more! Now, let me clarify. It is wonderful to give your life and your resources to help those who are in need. I believe we all should live simply. We should not over eat, we should have simple dwellings, we should have a cheap reliable vehicle, and so on and so forth. The reason people start wanking their crank over this bull sh*t, though, is due to the fact that “social justice” is the trendy thing to be in to. It is the Radiohead of causes. If your into it your cool, and if your not then f**k off! I’m sorry but many of us do not have faith in our infallible government or our heaven sent messiah! Christians should sacrifice and give and give untill there is nothing left to give. Governments will only take and take, and throw its people a bone now and then to keep mouths shut and minds numb. I’m sorry that I am ranting but sometimes I feel like people with my viewpoint are being backed into a corner, and I have the instinct to attack. To sum up my post “social justice” is bull sh*t because the people who promote it and wear it on their sleeve are bull sh*t. That’s it and may God have mercy on my soul!!!!!!!!



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    g

    posted May 26, 2010 at 4:30 am


    I dig Radiohead by the way.



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    Matthew Paul Turner

    posted May 26, 2010 at 1:31 pm


    Grant, you’re hilarious. You must give a little bit of a flying fig about Beck… and you like asterisks! :)



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      g

      posted May 26, 2010 at 5:28 pm


      Yeah, I wanted to keep it clean for the kiddies. Oh here I go again thinking about others before myself. By the way, I do enjoy this blog even if it pisses me off from time to time. My previous comment was made in haste at 4 am so my anger was multiplied by the sleepiness factor. Have a great day you leftist pinko commie!

      PS: Leave Beck alone!!!! He never hurt anybody!!!! (Sobbing)



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Dolores Lear

posted May 26, 2010 at 8:15 am


God/Us, in Genesis 1,2, Male and Female Clones ‘in our image’, did not Reproduce Children by Heterosexual Body Birth. but by High Tech Science. God/Us Reproduced Eve from Adam’s Rib. The Asexual Celibate Male/Female Clones were Equal High Tech Science Born, Male and Female Clones, not Children.

High Tech Science ‘Asexual’ Clone Birth,of Eve from Adam’s Rib, was handed down as being Reproduced by a God ‘in our image’. Most Religions have Celibate Monks and Nuns. Why? Where did Celibacy Knowledge come from? Supernatural Asexual Clone Writings like Genesis 1,2?

Where are Celibate Males today that Follow Jesus? In Monasteries and not part of Reproducing the Body Birth Life on Earth to be like Jesus, or other Religious Celibate Gods like Buddha? How many other Religious and Myth Gods taught Celibacy and also have Monasteries?

Earth has had a High Tech Knowledge Explosion, and Humans today Know Humans can Colonize a Planet and Reproduce in a High Tech Lab. Humans also had a Sexual Population Explosion since 1900, from 1 Billion Humans to 7 Billion in 2011 on the same Land area.

What would have happened to our Home Planet, ‘IF” all those Isolated, Religious Celibate Males and Females, in Monasteries and Nunneries, were also Reproducing Children with Male Lust of the Flesh, the Original Sin of the High Tech Reproduced Asexual Adam and Eve Clone Colony?

Why are the God Worshipping Misbred Humans, Killing God’s Creation on Planet Earth and Killing Each Other and their Eco System and Ozone Canopy? Do Nuclear Bombs and Waste and all Planetary Dumps and Oil Spills prove the Majority of Human on Earth Love their Man-Made Gods?



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Dolores Lear

posted May 26, 2010 at 8:19 am


Many Religions teach Children at age 13, at Reproduction Age, before joining the ‘Congregation’, to observe and accept the God of their Fathers/Mothers. Why are all God’s Children, Unequal Males and Females on Earth, Fighting and Killing Each Other, over Religion and God’s Resources?

Especially since Jesus, a Human ‘Being’ God, taught Male Celibacy, Equality of Male and Female, and Equal Sharing of the Planet’s Resources, as the Kingdom of God in Heaven and on Earth? Even to little children in Mark 10-13-16, Luke 18:16-17, Matthew 19:13,14.

John a beloved disciple of Jesus, writes in 1 John 3:9: KJV. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” And Celibate like Jesus. How do Humans Reproduce without the Sex Act? In a High Tech Lab?

Male Sexual Lust was Asexual Adam’s Sin, his seed did not remain in him, and He Reproduced Misbred Children, with his Purebred Clone Eve, Reproduced from his Rib. Heterosexual Misbred and Misread Scripture Males, have Reproduce Misbred Heterosexual and GLBT Children ever since, with their Mates.



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Dolores Lear

posted June 5, 2010 at 12:11 pm


http://www.facebook.com/notes/bill-tammeus/the-absolute-truth-6-4-10/404504971903

The Only Truth is the High Tech Science ‘Truth’, that the High Tech Science ‘Asexual’ Male and Female Clone Peace Human Species do have Eternal Physical Life on Planets and in Spaceships, as recorded in Genesis. They did Reproduced the Female Clone from the Male Rib, in Genesis 1,2.

The Truth is the Supernatural God Killer Acts in the rest of Religion and Myth were about the Heterosexual High Tech Noah/Atlantis Killer Society, that did Kill Babies, and bombed Sodom and Gomorrah with Nuclear Bombs. And their High Tech Pollution and Waste did cause the Yearlong Planetary Flood, recorded in Genesis 7,8.



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Dolores Lear

posted June 6, 2010 at 4:49 pm


Life on Earth just keep sailing around in Space going Nowhere. The Only Way to go Somewhere besides Earth is in Man-Made Spaceships. So how are the Passengers of Earth doing going Nowhere? Taking Care of the Life on their Spaceship, or Reproducing more Passengers than Earth can support? Is the Lifestyle so so Dirty, our Spaceship will Sputter and Die?

Who is Taking Care of Spaceship Earth, while we are busy Polluting the land, sea and air? How much longer can Spaceship Earth continue with this abuse? Why do Humans even want to stay on Spaceship Earth, and keep on going Nowhere?

The Religious and Myth Gods, ‘in our image’, that came to Earth, from up there and out there, do not Live on Earth. They have many Space Bases, and do have Eternal Physical Life After Birth on Planets and in Spaceships. Even Jesus left Earth Alive, with the Father of Life on Earth, not a Suspernatural God, but our High Tech Human Ancestors.



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Dolores Lear

posted July 7, 2010 at 4:57 pm


The Earth had a population explosion from 1 billion in 1900 up to 7 billion in 2011, during the Sexual Revolution that did away with female Virginity before marriage.

What would our population be today without abortion and all type of contraception, and oral and anal sex acts, and many more Humans becoming GLBTs?



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