Jesus Creed

Jesus Creed


Missional in Seattle 3

posted by xscot mcknight

I gave two talks in Seattle, but I want to summarize what I said in my talk on Saturday. My talk was about “mistakes missional gospel folks need to avoid.”
What is the gospel? I gave a little summary of the “Lukan thread” — Mary’s Magnificat and Zechariah’s Benedictus and Jesus’ inaugural sermon (Luke 1 and Luke 4) — then I suggested a few mistakes we need to avoid:
1. Avoid beginning with the story of the Fall; begin with humans as Eikons in Genesis 1 before we get to the “cracked Eikons” of Genesis 3.
2. Avoid skipping from Genesis 3 to Romans 3: the story of covenant, Israel, and Law are inherent to the story of God.
3. Avoid thinking all problems are solved on Good Friday: we need the life of Jesus, the death of Jesus, the resurrection of Jesus, and the gift of the Holy Spirit to resolve the problem of the “cracked Eikon.”
4. Avoid defining sin as merely guilt for offending law; sin is rebellion against God manifested in four directions — against God, self, others, and the external world.
5. Avoid thinking convincing of guilt comes before casting the kingdom vision of Jesus.
6. Avoid rooting the gospel in a God of anger and wrath instead of rooting the gospel in the perichoretic Trinitarian God who seeks to draw us into that dance.
7. Avoid resolving the problem in one direction — with God — instead of resolving the problem in all four directions.



Advertisement
Comments read comments(44)
post a comment
Greg Laughery

posted March 30, 2007 at 2:46 am


Scot,
Thanks so much for the deep insights found in these avoiders. May God direct us and graciously help us to more and more avoid them all.
Greg



report abuse
 

Jim Henderson

posted March 30, 2007 at 3:46 am


Scot
Thanks for the great write ups about the event and for your insights as well. We’ll do it again soon.



report abuse
 

Walter

posted March 30, 2007 at 3:58 am


You are digging deep in theological basics. We have to set new the direction in a fundamental way. Theology in your way is liberating the people of God. Thank you for the encouragement!



report abuse
 

Ben

posted March 30, 2007 at 4:39 am


perichoretic – Wow! I’ve read a lot of theology, but this one got me ;-). (I guess I was due for another dictionary run. It’s been a while)
Thanks as always for another great post!



report abuse
 

Roger Schmidgall

posted March 30, 2007 at 6:02 am


Regarding mistake #5: convincing of guilt before casting kingdom vision…
Jesus, in the sermon on the mount, stressed the need for perfect obedience to a humanly-impossible standard and, consequently, the need for His gracious sacrifice.
Did He cast the kingdom vision first? Or in the same sermon?



report abuse
 

Joseph Holbrook

posted March 30, 2007 at 6:29 am


good one Scot,
hey Roger, I did a quick check on my computer bible.
MAT 3:2 = kingdom
MAT 4:17 = kingdom
MAT 5 = Seromon on the mount.
MAT 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
and when he commissioned the 12 and sent them out in Matt. 10…. the first thing he told them to say was:
MAT 10:7 “And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
I have to agree with Scot. Kingdom first….



report abuse
 

Scot McKnight

posted March 30, 2007 at 6:46 am


Roger,
My concern is not to eliminate the need for sin in preaching; after all, Jesus preached repentance and faith. And the former has to do with with turning from sin to God (though I’d emphasize the relational dimensions of sin).
So, it is not an either/or. In our culture, the word “guilt” doesn’t mean what it once meant. We have a few options, and one preferred my some is to preach sin and guilt all the more — others begin at a different place and hope to lead others to Jesus.
And, your reading of the Sermon on the Mount cannot be demonstrated. There is not a clue that Jesus is revealing perfect obedience in order to get folks to see their sin, repent, and then turn to him. Read the SoM and you get this: righteousness and life in the kingdom are presented and Jesus calls people — not to repent — but to do what he said. That’s how the SoM ends.



report abuse
 

Dan Brennan

posted March 30, 2007 at 7:35 am


Scot,
I love these points. They are (no surprise) so interconnected with each other in the Christian story and in what it means to be missional in our friendships, communities, and the world. They provide significant depth in moving forward.



report abuse
 

brad brisco

posted March 30, 2007 at 7:52 am


All great points, however the third “mistake to avoid” spoke to me the most. I think many times when I hear people say things like “its all about the cross” I get the sense that they are, as Scot said, focused on Good Friday over every thing else. I reallly like Scot’s words that “we need the life of Jesus, the death of Jesus, the resurrection of Jesus, and the gift of the Holy Spirit to resolve the problem of the â??cracked Eikon.” These words help me realize that while the cross is of course very important, it is not ALL about the cross.



report abuse
 

John

posted March 30, 2007 at 8:59 am


Sorry I was not in Seattle to hear both of your talks. You have captured the essence of much of what some people have been trying to communicate around this topic.
Again, thank you for your gentle but very learned words, you come at things with the power and rigor of much study and personal reflection.
Peace be with you,
John N



report abuse
 

Michael Kruse

posted March 30, 2007 at 9:00 am


For some reason I am getting e-mails with each comment on this post without having commented and without having checked the “notify me” box. However, I’m glad I checked out the post. (Maybe there is God thing going on here.) Amen on all seven counts (and how biblical of you to get it to seven points.) :)



report abuse
 

John Frye

posted March 30, 2007 at 9:17 am


Scot,
In our neck of the woods, people are hammered with violating the 10 commandments and when they are about to be dropped writheing into hell as the thin spider web of their lives break, in comes SuperMan–the Gospel–the GOOD News. Sickness-Cure/Problem-Answer/bad cop-good cop, etc. Jesus painted a compelling vision of the kingdom of God his Father and commandment breakers flocked in. He called them “friends.” He honored human beings even in their cracked Eikonness. Hmmmm. So I agree with your fifth error to avoid and with Joseph(comment #6).



report abuse
 

T

posted March 30, 2007 at 9:24 am


Roger,
I, too, have been taught that the SotM is really/primarily Jesus raising the bar even higher than Moses so as to show us how sinful we really are. While that may be one of the legitimate ways it hits us from time to time, I don’t think that’s what the point of the sermon is/was. I think we can, as Jesus did, cast vision for where God actually wants to take humans under his care and leadership (vision of the kingdom laid out in the sermon and elsewhere) without first convincing people of their guilt.



report abuse
 

Mark Van Steenwyk

posted March 30, 2007 at 9:49 am


The only thing I’d add is that we must avoid talking about the Gospel in primarily the past tense. We must share Gospel as eschatological hope, as well as to embody and narrate all the radical ways in which Christ is present in our midst. After all, the Good News is the Kingdom reality–which is Christ’s presence and reign as King. And that reality is an in-breaking eschatological reality.



report abuse
 

Anonymous

posted March 30, 2007 at 9:55 am


Jesus Manifesto::Mark Van Steenwyk’s Weblog » Blog Archive » Mistakes in Narrating the Gospel

[...] Scot McKnight has some wonderfully practical thoughts on how to articulate the Gospel meaningfully in our world: 1. Avoid beginning with the story of the Fall; begin with humans as Eikons in Genesis 1 before we get to the â??cracked Eikonsâ? of Genesis 3. [...]



report abuse
 

Scott M

posted March 30, 2007 at 10:37 am


I suppose I would say that I do really see how a recognition or feeling of ‘guilt’ (whatever you may mean by that word) is of primary or even particular focus. I see and experience Jesus telling us to give up our way of living our lives and start learning to live them his way instead. Where you are drowning in guilt or shame, the cross covers it and can heal. (But I’ll note that nobody feels either guilt or shame over all the ways they’ve tried to live life and the specifics are often more culturally conditioned than anything else.) In his life, we see life as we should live it. The resurrection gives us hope and confidence that it is possible. And the Spirit gives us the power to actually begin and progress in that journey.
Hmmm. I reread the above and realized I just essentially restated what Scot said. ;-) Oh, well. My main thrust was that the problem of guilt and shame has been dealt with, but they are neither the primary need nor something we are required to experience in every particular. In Romans 7:24, whichever interpretation of the passage you old, the emphasis is not on the wretch or miserable man where many like to put it, put on the exclamation of praise at the end of it.



report abuse
 

Anonymous

posted March 30, 2007 at 10:47 am


Unpack(ag)ing the Good News « the (re)blog of brian davis

[...] Unpack(ag)ing the Good News Not to keep referring to Scot McKinght at jesuscreed.org for blog topics here, but he has a fantastic entry on “mistakes missional gospel folks need to avoid“. Among the list is the following that stood out as I read: [...]



report abuse
 

Elizabeth Chapin

posted March 30, 2007 at 11:28 am


I am fortunate enough to live in the Seattle area and heard Scot’s talks. One thing I remember was a reference to the Four Spiritual Laws, and as one who experienced and used the Four Spiritual Laws on the beaches in my youth but have now moved into a different place in my approach to being a witness I have to agree with Scot’s warnings.
I was asked a while back to write a “tract,” which we call a devotional for women, attempting to explain the good news in a concise and relevant way for today and my first reaction was that I was interested and wanted to not just repackage the Four Spirititual Laws in today’s language and with feminine design, but to communicate the truth as revealed since the beginning of time. So, for each truth I searched for a supporting scripture from both the old and the new testament.
I will make this available on my blog if you are interested. emergingchaos.blogspot.com.
Scot’s mistakes to avoid have unfotunately crept into so much of our thinking and teaching and preaching that it will be hard to turn the tide, but by God’s grace I believe we can do it.



report abuse
 

BeckyR

posted March 30, 2007 at 12:21 pm


I think when talking with any person or people, it’s important to make the distinction between psychological-misplaced guilt, and moral guilt.
Bringing in a different comment – Romans says it is God’s mercy that woos us to him. And is it the Ephesians prayer that we know the height and depth and breadth of God’s love and that is the motivator for all we do.



report abuse
 

Jim Martin

posted March 30, 2007 at 1:01 pm


Scot,
Very helpful. Great practical thoughts. I appreciate the way you present these. Having these in list form helps me to see even more clearly what you are saying.



report abuse
 

Peggy

posted March 30, 2007 at 1:22 pm


Great points, Scot. So nice to see the wide-angle lens view of this from time to time!
And thanks, Elizabeth, for the link. I will take a look, since I have attempted to do the same thing! I just couldn’t go where the Four Spiritual Laws was going.
I like to remember that Jesus’ primary audience were Jews confronted with covenant-breaking tendencies…while most of our evangelistic opportunities are more in line with Paul’s audience of gentiles. Gotta know your audience to know just what part of the story comes first :)



report abuse
 

Peggy

posted March 30, 2007 at 1:25 pm


And Michael…how kind of God to check the box for you ;)



report abuse
 

Roger Schmidgall

posted March 30, 2007 at 2:09 pm


Scot, I’m not sure how what I said (#5) is advocating either/or. I thought that’s what Mistake #5 (avoid…) was advocating. :-)
I agree, we need both–casting kingdom vision and convicting of guilt. I think they can come in either order. The Spirit convicts of guilt in regard to sin (JN 16:8-9) and He can do it however/whenever He wants–including thru Jonathan Edwards, right?



report abuse
 

Mark Goodyear

posted March 30, 2007 at 3:36 pm


Great list. I especially like #4. Our definition of sin is so limited that it becomes easy to trivialize it.
Instead of treating God like the creator of the universe, I start thinking of him like some celestial small claims court judge who wipes traffic violation off my permanent record in exchange for a little prayerful flattery.
God help me!



report abuse
 

saint

posted March 30, 2007 at 4:13 pm


Hmm I was taught SoM was kingdom ethics, Jesus as the new Torah etc. Not entrance requirements etc. But maybe it’s because I live on the upside down side of the globe.
Question: why do (mostly evangelical) Christians seem to ignore the significance of the ascension of Jesus?



report abuse
 

Ted Gossard

posted March 30, 2007 at 4:38 pm


I join this chorus of appreciation for this post. I agree with each point and especially need to work on #5-7, espec 6-7, in my theological understanding. I think these really do reflect what the Story and what God is getting at, for us, in Christ, and each are important for us. Thanks.



report abuse
 

Scot McKnight

posted March 30, 2007 at 4:53 pm


Saint,
You’ve got a good one — mostly, so it seems, because the NT authors mostly do as well. It seems “assumed” into resurrection theology.



report abuse
 

Diane

posted March 30, 2007 at 7:16 pm


Hi everybody. A little off topic, but I’m leaving tomorrow for 10 days in northern England with my husband and three kids to explore the Lake District and the moors. I going unplugged for 10 days and am surprised at how hard it is for me to leave my laptop behind! The last time I was in the Lake District, during college, we didn’t have personal computers so none of this was an issue. It seems like another epoch. I will miss being part of this blogging community!



report abuse
 

Helen

posted March 30, 2007 at 8:28 pm


Thanks Scot – I was hoping to see your list of mistakes in writing because I didn’t write them down when I was listening to the podcast, then I wished I had.



report abuse
 

pastor joe

posted March 30, 2007 at 9:12 pm


number 6 is what i lose sight of the most.



report abuse
 

saint

posted March 31, 2007 at 4:42 am


Thanks Scot. If you ever have the time or inclination would love to hear how you think it is assumed into resurrection theology. There is something quite significant (profound?) I think in that God has taken up Jesus (a human?) into Himself and (in order to?) poured out His Spirit on us.
I started thinking about this after some readings from Eastern Orthodox authors and wondered if we had missed another dimension of Christ’s work, maybe something about what it means that Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father and us as coheirs with Christ (just thinking idly aloud here…probably way off beam)



report abuse
 

John

posted March 31, 2007 at 6:01 am


Thank you!



report abuse
 

Anonymous

posted March 31, 2007 at 6:36 am


Dismantle » Blog Archive » Mistakes in Narrating the Gospel

[...] Scot McKnight writes about the mistakes we can make in narrating the gospel. I think he does a fabulous job in reminding us of the many dimensions of the gospel. (see below) I gave two talks in Seattle, but I want to summarize what I said in my talk on Saturday. My talk was about â??mistakes missional gospel folks need to avoid.â? [...]



report abuse
 

Rick B.

posted March 31, 2007 at 8:24 am


Good points Scot, thanks! :)



report abuse
 

Anonymous

posted March 31, 2007 at 10:32 am


Inappropriate Usage Of Question Mark Grows? at Zoomtard

Reading for the Intermission
I am currently working on the fifth installment of the Theological Reflections on Home Ownership series. In the meantime, I offer some links to other thinkers dealing with some of the issues we’ve encountered.
Todd Hiestand has posted a paper,…—–
[...] On Mission I am a Missionary. In my hometown. But that doesn’t mean I hand you pieces of literature that explain that modern music with its “clashing and bashing” leads to “flesh fests” (if only!). Instead I try and help the folks I work with to live out their Christianity in all aspects of their life; work and play, church and the pub, PTA meetings and tutorials. The last few weeks I have been hugely enjoying pretty much everything that Scott McKnight has written but he wrote this great article I have to share. [...]



report abuse
 

Eugene Cho

posted March 31, 2007 at 12:48 pm


yes, it is true. i have been kicking myself in the arse for not being able to join you for the chat. trying to soak in the podcasts. thanks scot for blessing our city.



report abuse
 

Winn

posted March 31, 2007 at 6:41 pm


Scot,
Great stuff! I imagine the conversation in this thread in terms of a story. We all live in a story. Some live in the story that doesn’t avoid the items you mentioned. Some are trying to live in a story that do avoid the items you talked about. Some are moving from one story to another and have parts of each story operating at the same time.
BTW: Isn’t the Sermon on the Mount a compilation of things taught as found other places in the gospel story or are we to think that he historically set on a mountain and uttered these words, all be it in Greek. Is the issue that the “mount” is a comparison with Moses and the mount on which he received the “ten stipulations?” So the reader of the story would get the comparison and see Jesus as the new Moses for the new humanity of God. Would that then make the Sermon on the Mount not a replacement to the ten, but an expansion of the ten, i.e., “you have heard, but I say to you…” both the â??tenâ? and the â??sermonâ? operating under a kingdom rubric.
Just some thought rambling around in my head.



report abuse
 

Scot McKnight

posted March 31, 2007 at 7:29 pm


Hey Winn,
I do think the Sermon is a compilation by Matthew or someone else of the choice teachings of Jesus and not just one sermon.
On the Mosaic-typology … it’s a very popular idea, but I see very little other than “on the mountain” that is really direct. And no one confuses the gentle slopes alongside the Sea of Galilee with Sinai. There is clearly some Mosaic thematic in Matthew, but it can easily be overdone.
The reason I toss cold water on this is that it wasn’t a big theme for the earliest Christians.



report abuse
 

Winn

posted April 1, 2007 at 12:00 am


Thanks Scott,
Children before 2 years old stories: Moses and Jesus
5 internal books in Matthew: 5 supposed books of Moses
other ideas within the thoughts around Moses and Jesus. Of course, “big theme for earliest Christians” is a big one, did they see everything? Too bad we can’t talk to the author and the first hearers to see what they were thinking and hearing. :-)



report abuse
 

Roger Schmidgall

posted April 1, 2007 at 7:46 am


Joseph wrote (#6):
ey Roger, I did a quick check on my computer bible.
MAT 3:2 = kingdom
MAT 4:17 = kingdom
MAT 5 = Seromon on the mount.
MAT 5:3 â??Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Joseph, the first 2 references you note put repentance before kingdom. Is this repentance without any sense of guilt of sin?



report abuse
 

Tom Hein

posted April 2, 2007 at 9:32 am


“Perichoretic” has me fascinated.



report abuse
 

Kevin Kirking

posted April 2, 2007 at 2:24 pm


What is the difference between a “Progressive Evangelical” and other Progressive Christians? Aren’t all Christians evangelical(small “e”) to some degree?



report abuse
 

Scot McKnight

posted April 2, 2007 at 2:32 pm


Kevin,
It probably depends on who’s doing the talking .. for me a prog Christian would be more prog than a prog evangelical.



report abuse
 

Anonymous

posted April 4, 2007 at 11:25 pm


:: in a mirror dimly :: » Blog Archive » links for 2007-04-05

In perspective
Good Friday. That’s Good Friday. I’m getting waves of His presence this morning. Thank you Jesus!
I was looking at a hot-cross bun yesterday and thinking wouldn’t it be cool if the symbol of Christi…—–
[...] Jesus Creed » Missional in Seattle 3 Good thoughts from Scott on mission and the Gospel, but I wish he wouldn’t throw in words like “eikon” and perichoretic. Precise and accurate they may be, using those words without explanation makes it hard for many to jump right into the conversation. (tags: missional christianity) [...]



report abuse
 

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.



Previous Posts

More Blogs To Enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Jesus Creed. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here are some other blogs you may also enjoy: Red Letters with Tom Davis Recent prayer post on Prayables Most Recent Inspiration blog post Happy Reading!  

posted 11:15:58am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Our Common Prayerbook 30 - 3
Psalm 30 thanks God (vv. 1-3, 11-12) and exhorts others to thank God (vv. 4-5). Both emerge from the concrete reality of David's own experience. Here is what that experience looks like:Step one: David was set on high and was flourishing at the hand of God's bounty (v. 7a).Step two: David became too

posted 12:15:30pm Aug. 31, 2010 | read full post »

Theology After Darwin 1 (RJS)
One of the more important and more difficult pieces of the puzzle as we feel our way forward at the interface of science and faith is the theological implications of discoveries in modern science. A comment on my post Evolution in the Key of D: Deity or Deism noted: ...this reminds me of why I get a

posted 6:01:52am Aug. 31, 2010 | read full post »

Almost Christian 4
Who does well when it comes to passing on the faith to the youth? Studies show two groups do really well: conservative Protestants and Mormons; two groups that don't do well are mainline Protestants and Roman Catholics. Kenda Dean's new book is called Almost Christian: What the Faith of Ou

posted 12:01:53am Aug. 31, 2010 | read full post »

Let's Get Neanderthal!
The Cave Man Diet, or Paleo Diet, is getting attention. (Nothing is said about Culver's at all.) The big omission, I have to admit, is that those folks were hunters -- using spears or smacking some rabbit upside the conk or grabbing a fish or two with their hands ... but that's what makes this diet

posted 2:05:48pm Aug. 30, 2010 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.