Idol Chatter

Idol Chatter

Kristin Chenoweth Defends Gays to Newsweek

Tony winner and sometimes controversial Christian celebrity Kristin Chenoweth has always been a defender of gay rights – even when it has cost her support in the Christian community- and now she is speaking out against an article in a recent issue of Newsweek magazine. She wrote a particularly heated reply to a writer who believes that many gay actors can’t pull off heterosexual romantic leading roles, even while it seems to be no problem for straight actors to play gay roles. One of the examples the writer picks on is Sean Hayes, Chenoweth’s co-star in the current Broadway production of “Promises, Promises.” Now the Broadway pixie with a powerhouse voice is calling him “horrendously homophobic.” And that’s just the beginning of her tart-tongued comeback.


Not only does Chenoweth gush about Hayes’s talent as her leading man in the musical in her letter but she correlates the archaic theory presented by the article’s author with treating gay people similarly to the way Jews have been treated by society in the past. In her letter she states, “For example, there was a time when Jewish actors had to change their names because anti-Semites thought no Jew could convincingly play Gentile.”
I appreciate that Chenoweth, in her own spunky way, tries to move the dialogue forward regarding gays and the evangelical community from time to time.I am just not sure I would have made this particular argument in doing so. With Neil Patrick Harris, Hayes, and many other “out” gay actors having successful careers, it’s getting harder and harder to argue Hollywood might be going out of its way to discriminate against gay actors who are looking for work – or that audiences aren’t finding their portrayals of straight characters convincing.
The era of anti-Semitism that Chenoweth is referring to was decades ago, and perhaps a stronger case would have been made if she had made the comparison instead to all of the Hollywood Christians in the 80s and 90s , pre-“Passion” era who worried about keeping their faith on the down-low for fear it would hurt their careers.
Either way, the writer of the Newsweek article has had a history in the press of what some might refer to as gay-bashing and doesn’t seem to be taken too seriously, so, Kristin, relax, and let’s not give this man any more free publicity.

  • Bill

    Kris Rasmussen has obviously never been publicly dehumanized and degraded in front of the entire world.
    I wonder if Kris Rasmussen would tell Kristen to ‘relax’ if it were ‘Christians’ Kristen was defending.
    I wonder.
    But I already know the answer to that.

  • jestrfyl

    One name for you – Rock Hudson
    Actors act – the good ones can play out of character – in fact they are especially adept at playing the reverse of who they may actually be. I am getting more and more impressed with Ms. Chenoweth (who by the way has played opposite here “type” on Glee and even on Pushing Up Daisies). She has a balanced sense of life and reality that cause-focused types may find difficult to accept. That she has the public eye – and they do not – may be part of their frustration and her success as a spokesperson for sensibility.

  • pagansister

    Now I have another reason to admire and appreciate Kristin Chenoweth! Good things come in small packages.

  • Laurel

    I think Kristin is just showing what a class act she is. I love her quote: “We’re actors first, whether we’re playing prostitutes, baseball players, or the Lion King. Audiences come to theater to go on a journey. It’s a character and it’s called acting.” It’s just really disappointing listening to the Newsweek writer defend himself.

  • johnnygreyna

    I think I have read in the Bible something that is said, “Don’t judge a man until you have walk a mile in his shoes”. It dosen’t state it in this way, but i see this in Mental Ilness, a doctor who has a degree and has not had the experience, for example in “Homosexuality” dose not know what the other person is feeling, Unless he has walked a mile in the man’s shoes. I would have to agree with the lady, but then again in the subject, it should not be put out for the public to view.

  • Bill Saxon

    The truth gets buried in all the chatter. How can someone call themselves Christian and not recognize the clear prohibition against
    all forms of sexual perversion, including homosexuality, in our Bible ?
    Old Testament or New, The message is the same. God considers this
    type of activity an abomination. Christianity and the so called ” homosexual lifestyle” are antithetical. Regardless of fame and public
    approval, Kristin’s opinions do not change the Bible’s timeless truth.

  • http://Amen Tim Sharkey

    Bill, I so agree with you. We need to watch out for the wold in sheep’s cloths. There will be many that claim to be Christians, but not all will be worthy of the Glory. We must follow Gods law. It is clearly laid out in the Bible.

  • Elijah A, Alexander, Jr

    In Revelation 22:11 we find “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still” suggesting no one have the right to denounce anyone else. Is it that many people have nothing else to do but denounce and attempt to condemn others?
    Thank you Kristin Chenoweth for doing what you can to bring unity to this nation.

  • Abiel Disciple

    Its obvious to me that people are so gullible They can be taken in by any public figure that calls themselves a Christian. Jesus said to judge the tree by the fruit it bears And from what i see here Theres some rotten fruit. You people who agree with homosexuality better read your bibles and for those of you who dont know this Jesus made it very plain that we dont not use anger nor do we argue over His Words. Repent for the end is near and Gods judgement is upon us. You better be right with Jesus when He comes because that saying i believe wont cut it. Being reborn and obedience is what Jesus admonished us to do.

  • Dennis Pence

    Hate the sin, love the sinner. Pray for their repentance. Nothing wrong with treating homosexuals like people- they are – but to say that you agree with their choice pits you against God’s word and you will lose everytime. In the last day, God will judge them according to his law, not ours. To push a gay agenda, or say we have to accept their lifestyle is not going to change anything. Sin is still sin. I am sure the Holy Spirit will convict some, but probably not all of them, that this is a lifestyle that is abhorent to God and never intended to be in His creation. First we accept abortion as ok, then homosexuality – next it will be euthanazia and then pedophilia. You say never – that’s what I said about abortion back in the late 50’s and early 60’s. We battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers – Satan.

  • Freedom

    I agree with Elijah. And I don’t ever remember anyone in the Bible judging anyone else. If you interpret the Bible to fit your beliefs, then you need to go to church this Sunday and take a good, long look at yourself.

  • Benita Garcia

    GOD said he is the same forever. To quote “I am the Lord thy GOD the Alpha & Omega. GOD is the same today as he was during the Bible years. I think some one should ask Lot’s wife what GOD thinks about homosexuality. Regardless, Jesus never wants to condemn anyone but people condemn themselves. When Jesus healed or prayed for some one he said “go and sin no more.” Homosexuality is a sin and I pray for their community all the time. I have family that attests to being homosexual. I don’t think any worse of them I just pray for them. GOD, Jesus and the Holy Spirit will enlighten the sinner when you pray for them. Thank GOD for freedom of speach but there will be consequences in the end for any who do wrong and upholds wrong doing. GOD Bless you all turn to your scripture it’s all spelled out.

  • Jim Roberts

    “God said, Jesus said, they said, he said”!!!! B…S…! To all the bible thumpers out there…..Yes read your Bibles, but read what it really says, not what you think it says. Then go read this:! Stop the ignorance! The Bible is full of words that don’t mean what people think they mean. This is because of it’s many translations into several different languages. The Bible is full of misquotes, books not written by the “named” author (because he was dead some 40 – 60 years before the book was written. The Bible contradicts itself in over 100 verses. God didn’t make homosexuality a sin, man did! Get over it!!!

  • Dan Quagliata

    Perhaps it’s time to look at all “sin” with the same tenacity that we look at homosexuality with. It’s always amazed me to see sin put in a box and to see people get up and stand on that box. I wonder what would happen if we looked at sins like pride, gluttony, lying, unwholesome talk, slander and drunkenness with the same vim and vigor. How quick we are to pass seething judgement on homosexuals and such without taking a good hard look at ourselves. I believe that grace and forgiveness always win when dealing with any confrontation of sin. Yes, I believe in marriage between one man and one woman. Yes, I believe God’s word is pretty clear about that. However, I also have several gay friends and rather than shake a finger of judgment I’ve decided to love them with the love of Jesus, to encourage them to worship with my wife and I and to pray that whatever change might need to happen in their lives would happen as a result of their encounter with the Lord Himself, through the power of the Holy Spirit. Let me ask you: What’s going to change their lives: my outright condemnation and conviction or the specific work of God, through the Holy Spirit, in their lives? I’m called to love God, love others, and love myself. I fear that the loudest and harshly vocal sin bashers, deep down, struggle with the “loving themselves” and rather than lean their efforts into that it’s always easier to reject others before you let them reject you. Unfortunately, homosexuality is the “get out of taking a hard look at yourself” free pass.

  • Nfanniee Kazouch

    God said in Leviticus 20:13 that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man. I pray that homosexuals and every other sinner will repent and turn from their sinful ways… GOD IS HOLY

  • Sophie Styczen

    Sure there are other sins out there so you think homosexuality should be treated just like any other sin. Wrong! It is far more abhorrent, and it is specifically mentioned as being an abomination in the Bible. And Sodom and Gomarrah, what was that. Punishment for precisely that, homosexuality – it was destroyed. If we start accepting these people too easily, our civilization as we know it or would like to know it, i.e. man and woman producing offspring the normal way is in big trouble. If you want to see the world as a big cesspool then keep upholding gay rights and abortion. My isn’t that lovely.

  • Miss Surrender

    What some have said it true. We as people are always caught up in what the secular world is doing and we have conformed to what the world things is right. Yes, we are to love homosexuals just as anyone else, however if you are a true disciple of Christ and your standard is the bible then you will not sugarcoat the sin. I am learning that homosexuality does not fully define the individual. However, it is another sin the world practices. My issue is everyone calls themselves a Christian, but they donot imitate Christ. And as far as Hollywood is concern, there can’t be a whole lot of Christains there, because half the stuff on T.V. or in the Movies wouldn’t of exist. Hollywood have always excepted homosexuality, drug abuse, infidelity, etc. Get the point! Hollywood is full of lost souls. If there are Christians they have to be struggling in that Arena.

  • Pastor Bob

    Mr Jim Roberts
    For you to declare that the word of God is wrong this is no more the blasphemy. Don’t think you know the bible and can support the homosexuals of this world it is an abomination and it is sin. God did not make homosexuals man did by sin. You need to go back to school and learn your bible there is no contradictions or miss quotes. And was not written by dead men. You should believe the word of God its truth and life, I understand it can seem like it’s easy to take one scripture and make it suit what you want. That’s not the way it works, further more if you are not a faith believer you cannot understand the word of God , until you commit your life to Christ and except him as your Lord and savior you cannot understand his word.
    I suggest that you and Kristin repent and turn from these sinful beliefs or remember Mathew 7:22-23 Along with this you should visit the museum of creation in San Diego California a Group of Scientist with your outlook set out to disprove and show the bible was false and full of mistakes and guess what they could not but there were able to prove beyond doubt that the bible is real and is correct and all have given their life’s to Jesus and serve him with the promise of eternal life which neither of you have at this point. And if you want to talk with a man that has studied the Bible for over 70 years and can show you the right path I suggest that you look up Dr. RE Anderson you can find him and his contact information on and at I guarantee you after speaking with Dr. Anderson he will answer any and all of you questions. I once was just like you but know I am saved and have the promise of eternal life.
    Pastor Bob

  • V. Hill

    It is our job as Christians to love everyone and to pray for what we view as shortcomings. It is not our job to beat up anyone with harsh words, just give them the word of God in love. The word is clear on so many levels about this subject. God’s hates the sin, not the sinner.
    It is time for those concerned about the Bible Thumpers should read the word for themselfs and ask someone in the ministry if they don’t understand. Yes, God loves the Gay Person, he just wants them to understand what he requires of their life. In today’s world, we seem to be able to find in the Bible what we think will justify us in what we want to do. God’s word does not change and even states that we search the word for in them we think we have eternal live. Sin is Sin and God will judge it as such. What we need to find is the Salvation of God and really give our life to him and these things will come clear. You can’t search the scriptures to find yourself right, but to find the truth of Salvation.
    Many pointing the finger need to look in the mirror.

  • Terry Mingus

    It’s funny how anything said in a negative fashion to or about a gay person is categorically homophobic. How odd straight men can be classified as having no taste in fashion, furnishings or food and it’s not heterophobic .Oh look spell check didn’t try to correct homophobic yet doesn’t recognize heterophobic. I’m just sayin…..

  • paul

    The word “Christian” should not be associated with Kristen Chenowith. Jesus said there will be NO homosexuals in Heaven. That is clear enough. Please stop watering down God’s word to mold to the worlds perversions.
    Paul Krupa

  • Julie

    You all have very interesting things to say, but I have only one. Jesus said, “Don’t not judge, lest you not be judged.” To me that says it all. I am not accepting of the gay lifestyle, but I am accepting of the person by their own merits. I am a Christian, and Jesus is my Savior. But just because His blood has covered my sins and paid for my inequities doesn’t mean I now live in a glass house and can start throwing stones at others. Remember when Jesus also said, (paraphrasing) “…before you are concerned about the splinter in your brothers’ eye, first remove the mote in your own.” We should all only be concerned with our own sins, not the sins of others – with the only exception being when we evangialize to them for their salvation – only to guide them – not to judge. Jesus also said to love one another as He has loved us – “…and by this ALL men will know you are my disciples.”

  • Miss Surrender

    Mr. Jim Roberts
    Do you understand that if we (true Cristians) are confused about the interpretation of the bible then we would of agreed with you! Every thing man does goes against the word of God and the only way we will be able to underdstand him is by the transformation of our thinking Romans 12:2. So seeing what you wrote I am not surprised because your thinking has not changed. When is the last time you surrendered your way of life to God Luke 9:23. I am not gay, but at one time I was in a heterosexual relationship without being married. That is sinful according to God! Why, because it doesn’t show committment and unification under the word of God. The word says that man will go to what their itching ears want to hear! What have you been hearing lately. My advise to you is pray for God to soften your heart and make it clear to you about homosexuality. Once your heart is open and receptive go to the scriptures about the obvious sins and study them out. I am certian some christians who once practive Homosexuality still struggle with those desires 2 cortintians 12:9 , but if they are seeking God wholeheartly they are not engaging in the act or behavior. They may have to struggle with thoughts, people, places or things, but they better be on their knees more, confessing daily, and seeking advice so they can keep their salvation.

  • Miss Surrender

    Julie I don’t think anyone (or should I speak for self) is dismissing the fact that they sin. We all fall short at times, but what they are trying to let people see is that Christ is cut and dry with sin. My daughter is bi-sexual and as hard as it was to face I had to learn to love her. Do I still struggle with being loving? of course! But if I want to remain close to God I better repent daily and make every effort to love her. I agree with you 100% but We as Christians have to not be passive about speaking out to the word about sin, however we need to do it with wisdom and guidance form Christ. Beating someone in the head doesn’t work, however We play nice all the time and don’t want to rock the boat. Is it because we are also lazy with our relationship with God and don’t want to be held accountable. Remember Jesus loved everyone and he said he came for the sick! We have to love everyone, but we don’t have to tolerate the sin if it has entered into our life. Everyone is standing up these days for Gay rights, legalizing drugs, legal prostitution, etc. These things are going in front of congress and legistlators and are being passed. Where are the Christians while all of this is happening? What are we fighting for and taking to congress? I know I went off the topic, but that was something I had on my heart.

  • cinsere

    First off she has every right to speak her mind on any subject. And
    Jesus was all about loving thy neighbor. Did you ever see that saying
    “I’m fine with God, it’s Christians I can’t stand.” Got to wonder
    why that saying came about as many who say they are Christians just
    miss the real message that came from Jesus.

  • Mike

    They used to stone people that comitted adultry, do we want to go back to that? The world changes. I suggest everyone read a book called “When bad christians happen to good people” by David Burchett. Sometimes us Christians really turn people away from Christ with our evangelicle furver.

  • Stephanie

    Very well put
    Benita Garcia thanks

  • Robert A. Wine Jr.

    Personally, I can’t say whether being a homosexual is wrong or not, but God, who created and judges us can:
    Romans 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions ; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural , 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil ; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice ; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful ; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
    Please pay particular attention to verses 25 – 27. Now, we can argue points all day long, but what God wrote in His holy Bible is what matters, not my opinion nor yours.
    I do hope people see that God rules, not us. Ms. Chenoweth is an incredible singer (I do have her CD). Although I do admire her for standing up for her coworker, she needs to study before defending that which is an abomination before God. It’s not our friends who get us to Heaven, it’s the death of Jesus Christ and His resurrection that gets us there.

  • kaiya marie

    What about Rock Hudson and Richard Chamberlain?

  • mike s.

    There are a lot of people like bishop robinson of the episcapal church and a great deal of others in america that think being gay and living that life style and doing that behavior is alright and that because God is a loving they will not be condemned for living that way. But the fact is God hates homosexuality and will judge anyone that lives that way. The bible states that there is a way that seems right unto man, but the end is death. By that it means the second death which is seperation from God and cast into a lake of fire. I cannot judge anyone but there are a lot of people who are going to be shocked when God says depart from me worker of iniquity I never knew you. And i dare say that gay people all fall in that category. Jesus said to all who sinned and crossed his path, to stop doing those sins. he said I forgive you, now go and sin no more, not go and do what you want and come back and see me when you get a guilty concience.

  • Sandy

    Unfortunately, I think that it is more the view of many viewers, that an openly gay actor can’t play a heterosexual role. It seems to me that it is like saying, a non-psycho/teacher/milkman/anything, can’t effectively play the role of one of those characters. Acting is acting…too often we forget that and think theatre/acting is real life. I say to those people “Get a real life!”

  • snicks

    For Robert A Wine Jr……
    For someone who seems to take the Bible so seriously…you are not too bright. Especially when you say “what God wrote in His bible”
    As all Catholics know…GOD did NOT write the Bible…they are stories (scriptures)that were written by men (authors) and passed down…and what about all those pages that were found and never shoved into the Bible? I am a Catholic and do not believe every thing that is said in the BIBLE and I certainly do not believe everything the Catholic church says and does. The catholic church is
    very GREEDY ..everything is money, money, money……There are more important issues to deal with rather than someones sexual preference such as priest who steal and molest young boys!!!!!

  • Tracy Crutchfield

    Who are we to judge? People like to judge other people. But, when you think about this and people and there problems. You ask yourself why?
    There is only one judge of people in this world and that is God. WE are not perfect human being s on this earth. Only God alone knows this. Need I write or day anymore Thank You

  • Chuck

    To the scripture quoters:
    You’re leaving some out. You can’t do that. You either believe all or nothing. You don’t get to choose do you? I don’t think so.
    Do not steal.
    Leviticus 19:11-19
    ” ‘Do not lie.
    ” ‘Do not deceive one another.
    12 ” ‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
    13 ” ‘Do not defraud your neighbor or rob him.
    ” ‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight.
    14 ” ‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the LORD.
    15 ” ‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.
    16 ” ‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people.
    ” ‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the LORD.
    17 ” ‘Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.
    18 ” ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
    19 ” ‘Keep my decrees.
    ” ‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.
    ” ‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
    ” ‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
    If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you. If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.
    23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you. Deuteronomy 22:20-24
    If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid…Deuteronomy 21:18-22
    But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery…Matthew 5:32
    To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.1 Corinthians 7:10-12
    Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife…1 Corinthians 7:27
    Don’t forget to leave these out cause you can’t go to heaven if you don’t follow every scripture. And Mr. Robert A. Wine Jr, you don’t get to select verses 25-27 and set them apart. You need to look at that list and see which ones, if not all, of the ones you’re guilty of or this will happen to you:
    “and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.”

  • Teri

    Ms. Chenoweth has taken the high road in showing the way of love. The gospel was spread by people meeting others where they are, and showing them that there is a better way. Judge not, that ye be not judged; for with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged, and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (Mt. 7:1&2.

  • Chuck

    To Mike S:
    God hates a liar. God hates divorce. He will judge you because you’re guilty of at least one of those two things. Get ready.

  • Sophie Styczen

    Tracy, you got it all WRONG. Nobody is judging here so quit twisting this around. This is not about judging. Nobody here is judging gays, thats for God to do and we all will be judged, but, at the same time if I see somebody doing something that is against God and his creation I have a right to admonish the sinner; Jesus said: Nor do I condemn you but he also said SIN NO MORE !! That means turn away from your sin. Get it? It is plain to see that Satan has been loosed onto this world because of man’s sin; and he has clouded people’s minds so they no longer can see right from wrong and he is hard at work gathering as many souls to eternal damnation as he can before the end times. Get it??

  • Walter Comer

    One thing that comes to mind is what some call “The 11th Commandment”, One of Christ’s final statements on Earth- John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another”. Those He loved, by the way, included a prostitute, a criminal crucified with Him, the crowd who had gathered to watch and hurl insults and those who nailed Him to the Cross.
    He didn’t say, “except for homosexuals, ku klux klan members” nor did He make any other exceptions. He made it quite clear in His Commandments that it is His job, and His job ONLY, to judge. We are to be His representatives on this Earth. In order to do that well, since we can not see the Big picture, it is our job to love as He did/does. He died for us. What does that say about how we should love each other?

  • Teri

    To paraphrase what it says in the book of James: “Guilty of one sin, guilty of all.”
    Can someone please explain to me why anyone would want to know the Lord if all we’re doing is in-fighting and judging.
    “Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul, and strength; and love thy neighbor as thyself.”

  • Rev’d John von dem Beck

    Is she lesbian, or does she have some other kind of problem ?

  • LAB

    Some great points, from both sides, and a few remarks that were degrading to believers.
    The believers, only pointed out scripture that supports their convictions, concerning homosexual behavior, after proclaiming the fact that the sinner is loved, it is the sin that is hated. The remark
    “God said, Jesus said, they said, he said”!!!! B…S…! To all the bible thumpers out there…..Yes read your Bibles, but read what it really says, not what you think it says. Then go read this:!” , was totally rude and so not true. Not one person so far showed any form of hatred towards homosexuals.
    The problem, is society, and the loudest voice in society gets the attention, and we call it equal rights. Now my view is, all people have equal rights, within the law, and especially God’s law. Now Hollywood is not the spokes person for society, so why are we giving Hollywood the microphone.
    First it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that two males or two females just don’t go together, even in hardware there is a female and a male. Wrong is wrong and the Bible points it out. Believers do not hate homosexuals, but hate the sin, and believers should not be subjected to having to accept it as a way of life.
    Hollywood does not set our standards, though they would love to. Sin is sin, and God hates sin, but he loves us. Calling oneself a Christian does not make oneself a Christian, it is ones way of life, Christ like, to be a Christian–is to depart from iniquity. To this, the name obliges us; and without this we have no right to the name. “Let every one who names the name of Christ–depart from iniquity!” 2 Timothy 2:19. That is, let him depart from iniquity–or not even dare to take that sacred name!
    But being a Christian is not easy, we are surrounded with the worlds sin, though we do not commit them ourselves, we are guilty, only to be washed clean through Jesus.
    It is funny, a Christian will attempt to SHARE the word of God, his Love, Mercy and Grace , but the sinner FORCES us to accept their life style.

  • Sophie Styczen

    This is not about loving one another; this is not the issue here. this is about condemning the homosexual and those that are telling me to love the homosexual and to bend over backwards to accommodate him/her; how about the homosexual bending over backwards to accommodate and to give rights to the heterosexual and loving me because I am not gay. Do gays love straights, you have to ask yourself. No. they don’t love straights because they are asking straights to give them something we cannot do and that is condone their lifestyle which is alien to God’s teachings. If we do not listen to what the Bible says and it clearly says that this is sodomy and that Sodom and Gomorrah were burned down because of this sin, you can imagine what will happen to mankind because of this sin. We will all die under nuclear annilhation because we are pushing God’s hand to punish. We’ve already gotten a taste of that with 9/11. Do we want more. Also this sin falls under the sixth commandment. It has been foretold that more souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh. So therefore I will not condone the homosexual lifestyle. It doesn’t mean I hate them, no I simply will not agree to give them rights to marry, adopt, etc. It is WRONG. And I will not do wrong to please man, I was born to try to please God the Almighty who clearly gives us rules to live by. And don’t go telling me we have to love one another, this is not the issue here. Or judging one another, this is also not the issue here.

  • Jeannie

    My mother is gay, and it effected my life drastically. I am a Christian @ try my best to live by God’s word. I don’t hate homosexuals I pray for them. I love my mother and I respect her the most for not raiseing me in that kind of home. She allowed her parents to adopt me, which in ways complicated life, but it is the best thing she could have done. I do not believe a child should be raised in a gay home, and marriage should be one man one women. We all have to pay for our own sins, to each their own.


    Can a man have kids from another man? NO! Can a woman have kids from another woman? NO! It is as simple as 2+2 = 4, there’s no whay arround it. Sexual and moral decay has been one of the key factors in the decline/fall of every great empire (including us). Homosexuality is the most sincerest form of “REBELLION”. Gay people are rebellious and therefore go against their own nature. Now ask me if “REBELLION” is a sin, YES it is! Just ask Mr. “Angel of light” what “REBELLION” cost him. The bottomline is that Jesus did die for all, gays or straight, and believe me, we christians LOVE you all but, dont ask us to compromise HIS sacrifice and sugarcoat sin with “LOVE”. HIS LOVE is for all, just repent from your gay ways and start living the right way!

  • Renewed

    I think a very dangerous word that is being batted around freely in today’s society is “tolerance”. It’s a word that, when put into action, leads to a way of life that has no backbone and stands on shaky ground. Tolerance means that we “put up with” things in order to maintain a false sense of peace and harmony. It’s artificial and allows no one to stand up for what they KNOW (because of scripture, which is God’s Word spoken through man) is right in the eyes of God. We can’t put God into little sections of our lives where He might be conveniently used. We have to live for Him in EVERY area of our lives, and that means sometimes needing to stand up against whatever it is that goes against God’s word. Not in hate, but in love, knowing that we are all sinners who need to come to Jesus. We can’t simply disagree with something because WE “feel” it is wrong, but be firmly rooted in the Lord’s Word and base all our reactions on that. Homosexuality is against God’s word, but so is lying and stealing and cheating and breaking the law…all of which most of us do. I don’t believe God sees one sin as greater than another sin. He weighs them evenly and only wants us to recognize our sinful nature and turn away from it to Him. As Christians, we have a duty to guide people towards Him. But…in LOVE, patience, and with hope.

  • vtown

    I’m trying to work through this situation and see it through Christ’s eyes. His words to sinners were often, “Go, and sin no more.” Those words applied to any and all sinners. What does God require of us, sinners ALL, in a situation like this? I see a number of people suggesting that a gay “lifestyle” is being promoted to non-gays in the sense of being condoned or accepted, including aspects such as marriage and adoption. Yet they are not proselytizing, suggesting that homosexuality is preferable to heterosexuality; they wish to be treated with respect and the rights due to all citizens of this country. Is it the will of God that we reject and demonize His children, if they are different from us? What about the woman at the well? Jesus’s actions showed love, concern and admonition, not punishment and rejection. Tax collectors, adulterers, zealots (remember Paul, formerly Saul) — all received Jesus’s attention and grace. Should we be less forgiving? What right have we to judge, when our sins place the moat in our own eyes?

  • Rick Coleman

    If the only reason you can give for trying to stop gay marriage and gay rights, is that it is in the bible, maybe you should move to Vatican City. This is America where we are supposed to have freedom of religion which also includes freedom from religion.
    Jesus only preached for a few years.All things were made known to him and yet he never spoke against homosexuals. He did state the any man or woman who divorces and remarries commits addultry.Mark 10:11-12 Adultry is one on the big 10 as you know,, but churches not only don’t condem it they facilitate adultry by performing the services.(I guess gay bashing brings in more money than the hard truth.)
    For all those worried that gay marriage will bring God’s wrath on us you might wnat to take a good look at allyour adulturous friends and families. How many of you Pastors have performed the adultry ceremony? How many so you rightwing “Born Agians” are remarried or attended an adultry ceremony and given your blessings?
    Don’t worry about God’s wrath coming because of the Gays. Remeber God would have saved Sodom if there we only 10 righteous souls. I sure you and your kind have us covered.

  • Walt

    I like your thoughts. That was part of my point. We’re not perfect. Yet, God loves us. Why do we give ourselves permission to be any different?
    I’m not saying condone homosexuality. I’m saying that we can not see the big picture. We can’t see the past that formed people and brought them to bad decisions. The best we can do is TRY to imitate our Lord, Who loves us in spite of our faults, through Christ’s sacrifice. If HE can love us considering what the human race did, or caused to be done to Christ, considering what we continue to do to each other, what we’re doing to this planet, etc., etc., ad infinitum, is it asking so much that we care for and try to help/guide our fellow tenants until our time is done and we must answer for what we’ve done w/ our time here?

  • Rick Coleman

    Leviticus is Jewish law not God’s law written by men. The 10 commandments written by God, no mention of homsexuality, but adultry rates high. Romans written by Paul no God or even atributed to Jesus. Check out your red letter version of the bible then tell me what Jesus,Emanuel, God with us said. Focus on the words of Christ and you will find all you need to know to be a Christian. The new testament is a book created by the Catholic church. They picked and chose wich books made up our bible, even today not all bibles have the same books. The Catholic has prove over centeries that of wrong doctrined proved by scienc that they can’t be trusted. Look up the Gospel of Mary or Tomothy. Does it really make since that there were 12 deciples and only 4 had somthing to say?

  • david driskell

    God will forgive us our sins if we can first forgive ourselves and our trespasses and renew our commitment to the living word and adhere to the teachings of christ. the word of the Lord is also the word of God. If you remeber jesus’ birth was a virgin birth and a supernatural birth that has not been duplicated anywhere in the world, because it was the Holy Spirit the gave the essence of god to Mary to bear a son and No man entered the woman to inpregnate her, because no man has that kind of relationship with God except God. And no man is pure before the God,NO ONE!Except jesus and he alone was pure before god but was made to be sin, so he could take on Sin in order to defeat it once and for All.Now we have a mediator between God and man, Jesus, because he payed the price for sin and death by making a way back to God thru his only son and the only person who came thru this life that was made to be sin ,though he was not sin, and had never ever sinned in his short Life on Earth.

  • david driskell

    That’s they’er lot in life, because it’s really not our position to judge except for our own lives. Woman was made for man and man was made for woman. God is not about life styles, but a deeper more spiritual relationship with the all mighty, not a lifestyle acceptance or tollerance. God is all about life and a relationship with him, that is personal and God does not have to accept any life style but he is strict about who we love and how we love them. Don’t have any thing to do with a hippocrit and that boasts about their relationship with Christ and how it is for everyone. That is one who is unegually yoked with the lord and does not speak about Aggoppe love or Godly love.

  • Ray

    The Bible specifically states in the new testament that homosexuality is wrong in God’s eyes. There is no doubt about it. If a person deliberately goes against God and chooses to live that way, he is taking a big chance with his destiny. One with a sickness or disease should be trying to get well. That is the bottom line — IT IS WRONG!

  • rick coleman

    Will all the people who keep saying the new teastement says, please documenat with chapter and verse atributed to our Loed and savior Jesus. I am not interested in the adiitional things the Catholic church decided should be the Bible so that tey could meet their agenda.
    People might also want to read Luke 17:34 ” I tell you in the night there will be two MEN in one bed: The one will be taken and the other left.”
    For all of those”GOd plan has always been one man and one woman” you might want to read what our Lord said in Matthew 19:8-13.
    For all the homophops that tink giving gay people eaqual right is going to vause God’s wrath, I suggest you look at the 10 commandments and the words of our savior about divorce and adultry. This contry and the churches in it have santioned adultry and actually facilitate it. How many churches presch against divorce or even prhibit divorcees to remarry in their churh? I guess the offering plates would be dry, much easier to vilify the gays.
    How many of you “sin knowers” sre teling your friends and family that if you get divorced and remarried you wil be commiting adultry? How many of you with stones are adulterers? Have you lusted in your heart?
    And finally for dear sophie and all those who think homosexualty is a worse sin becase it is an”abonination” may I remind you taht eating pork and touching pig skin is also an abomination this would include holding a football or wearing swaid. Ho so bad when it is but in prosective. Seems like would have made the big 10 if it was so abhorent.

  • Michelle

    I growing to finally understand how the world works. People only use their Christian views when it suits them. In one breath you say Homosexuality is wrong because our Lord said so. Well okay thats fine but did He not also state treat others how you want to be treated and you shall be judged as harshly as you judge the next. Our Lord and Savior is the only one who can say what is and isn’t permitted not man and not you. I have gay friends but I don’t let them influence me in my life or my belief. It is not my place to tell them they are going to hell because of their lifestyles. We read the same Bible and if that is how they live no sin is greater than the next. Being gay is the same as committing adultery or killing someone but those sins are all forgiven by one. Him. So next time you look at a homosexual and you want to say something, don’t because He didn’t give that power to you. I applaud Kristin Chenoweth for doing exactly what God tells us to do, treat everyone with kindness. Man made up the word tolerance. It has nothing to do with this situation. Being kind is being kind, I don’t care who eyes you look through, because I’m worried about His not yous.

  • LAB

    34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” Luke 17, International
    King James version says two men. Now Hebrew words are translated differently, as does ones understanding of the passages. In those days, homes did not have separate bedrooms, families slept in one room, and let us not forget, their beds were not as ours, they were mats, on the floor or slightly elevated with straw.
    Let us also not forget that when Jesus spoke, he was talking of the future, when he returns to call his flock home, two will be standing and one will remain. Now Jesus, would already know what the days of the future hold, life styles, and would he not also know that if two men in the same bed, if one was repenting of these acts ? That one would be called and the other left.
    But, his words said two men will be in one bed, and no where does it say that these two men knew each other. Found in Gods word, that Adam knew Eve, Abraham knew Sarah, David knew Bathsheba, and Mary knew no man. Let us remember, when God gave man his Word, he was precise. If the two in verse 34 were intimate, then the verse would contain his word, knew.
    As someone said, we have freedom of religion and also freedom from religion, and the truth is that the freedom of religion has lost ground, meaning others rights trump ours.
    My children can not pray in school, can not receive a send off prayer at graduation, can not sing Away in a Manger at the school program, because it may offend a non-believer. But my children are taught evolution, alternative life styles, all about other religions, abortion rights and are given condoms, with no regards to offending believers.
    Judge, no one is judging, just stating what we believe, homosexuality is wrong. Sodom and Gomorrah, was God’s judgment on homosexuality, because they did it openly, they hid it from no one.And yes, divorce is wrong, man just made it easy to obtain one, society accepted it. Abortion is wrong, man made it legal and society accepted it. But because society accepts it doesn’t make it alright with God, or his followers.
    Jesus taught, that we should Love one another, acceptance was that also the gentiles, those outside the Jewish faith, were also God’s children, not their beliefs, their religion, their customs, but the adoption into God’s family.
    Abraham wrestled with God over Sodom and Gomorrah, that his judgment on the cities sin would also convict the innocent that lived there. So you see, though I may not commit the sin, I may be dealt God’s judgment just the same. And for that reason, Jesus sent out his disciples, into all the world, so that all would hear the Good News, that Jesus saves, the sinner, you and me.
    As everyone has the right to believe or not, everyone also has the right not to be forced to accept, or tolerate their beliefs or life style, that goes against our beliefs and life style. Does that not fall under Special and Extra rights, when I am denied my rights to my beliefs.

  • mo

    idk why some people on here are fighting…..we should all stick together as christians….i agree with dennis and LAB. it is what it is. plain and simple. i dont hate gays but i dont agree with the lifestyle. just like you wouldnt hate a drug user but you wouldnt agree with them using drugs. i know both sides in a topic that is also very taboo. my mother who is a christian now told me that when she found out she was pregnant with me she almost had an abortion but then she didnt. I’m so greatful to God that she didnt because then i wouldnt have done and experienced so many things in life and met my husband and had our son. my sister recently told me that she had two abortions and it hurt me so much, but i didnt shun her at all i still love her very much and consoled her through it as best i could but i also let her know that it was wrong. not with hate but compassion. you correct your children because you love them. we speak up because we have compassion and dont want people to go to hell.

  • rick coleman

    Lab, you can believe in the tooth fairy if you want to , you can believe it is wrong for homsexuals to have equal rights, what you should not do is activily get involved in trying to stop people from having equal rights. Do you accept adulterers? SHould they have the right to marry? Oh they do. I use the new King James version who are you to say wwich is correct. And Jesus never said any one knew any one. Surely knowing all things to come, he would know this would be a hot bed issue, yet he remained silent. As Christin means Christ like I would suggest many of you do the same. Leave the judging to God.

  • rick coleman

    Lab your children can say a prayer anytime they want, God hears our thoughts. If you are so worried about what is being taught in public school I would suggest you put your children in private parocial school. As long as gays, Jew, Muslims, Buddist, atheist have to pay taxes to support public school and the governtment, both should remain religion neutral.

  • rick coleman

    Somdom only needed 10 righteous people to be saved so All of you who are worried about Gays bringing your doom better start worring about the adulterers. Divorce is not weong, it is the getting remarried after divorce that breaks one of the comandments. Yes times are different now Jesus would have known that and could have sid there will be two men-people in one house, but he chose bed.

  • Homophobic I am no I fear the God!

    satan has come for oneness in every way shape and form. A house divided shall not stand. And look @ all the division…adultery, single parents, divorce, homosexuality, even division among races to name a few. We should love all with the love of Christ…this does not mean accepting someones sin, it does however mean love them. Society as a whole has made so many unacceptables acceptable…a believer should no more put their kids in a private school to escape what is being thaught than a non believer for what they feel is not being taught. And honestly I am uncertain what rights that a hetrosexual has that a homosexual doesn’t have. We all can work, pray,live and eat. We all can vote, love and be loved. We all can even marry. From my understanding where the problem lies is that a particular group wants the government to give them special rights under the law because of their sexual orientation/choice.I know it has been said well blacks were given special rights and so on and so forth…but what special rights were people of color given? Weren’t they just fighting for the right to be equal? To not be deemed different or less because of the color of their skin(which by the way they cannot change)? Ultimately we all must run our own race set before us. Homophobic I am no I fear the God,love mankind and pray for Gods’ will in my life, my family’s life and in this world. May God continue to Bless and keep us all. May He open all of our eyes and give us all wisdom and understand in every area where we are lacking.

  • LAB

    Mr. Coleman, under the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and I will add each states Constitution and Bill of Rights, affords the citizens of these United States of America certain liberty’s, freedoms and privileges, within the law of the land. These documents ensure us that we are a free nation. Now the rights, are basic, in order to protect us from being forced, you see, being forced makes you no longer free. I don’t force my beliefs, but I will defend my beliefs, when I am to accept something that goes against my beliefs.
    And sir, my Bible is the King James, what I was trying to explain is that the verse quoted is represented with different references, depending on which Bible translation is used. Mankind is used in reference to all genders, all nations, and so on, not just the male gender. I did not say which version should be used. And my point, that you missed was, Jesus was not talking about sexual conduct, if he was, the word “knew, know, or knowing”, would have been in the verse.
    Adultery, is a sin, and yes those who remarry, are committing adultery, under God’s law , and under God’s law, homosexuality is wrong. So Mr. Coleman, how do you want it, under God’s Law, or under Man’s, one is righteous and one is sinful. And I am not judging anyone, what I am judging is myself and what God will judge me by, meaning what I stand for, him or this world.
    And yes I could put them in private school, but why should I have to pay twice, taxes and tuition. Yes God hears us, no matter where, permitted or not. The point you missed is that Muslims, Buddhist, and atheist get discussed in school, Christianity only gets mentioned, big difference, and again, as to not offend, except the believers.
    Sin is sin, and Jesus came to save the sinners, which all have sinned, and fallen short of God’s Glory. And the wages for sin is death, the second death ,which is damnation. It was the sins of the world that brought Jesus, his first coming, which he foretold of the Kingdom of God, and the forgiveness of sins, Love and life everlasting. He also foretold of his second coming, which also will be because of the sins of the world, but this time, he brings wrath with him, God’s wrath, then comes God’s judgment. Where accountability for all actions, words and deeds, will be handled. And I for one would rather be on God’s side rather than man’s.
    And the argument will continue… but there is a difference, a Christian offers to share the good news, love, mercy and grace of God, nonbelievers only want to force us to accept what we deem unacceptable because of our beliefs. What Christians offer is free, as is our right, to believe or not to believe. Gay rights on the other hand, is forcing believers to accept their CHOICE, which goes against our beliefs, which is taking away from us.
    May God Bless us all

  • rick coleman

    Dear Homophobic let me enlighten you. In moree than half the staes gay people can be fired just for being gay, blacks were protected as was marital status and religion in the govrenment anti discrimination act.. You can get married legaly, this gives you automatic right to visit your spouse if they are hospitalized, do you have any idea how many homophpic parents have keep their childrens partners from visiting them in the hospital. When you or your husband dies you are intitled to recieve the property free of inheritance tax. You can draw on your husbands social security. You are probably covered by your spouse health insurance at work.Gay people want eaqual rightd not spcial rightd.

  • Robert A. Wine Jr.

    Hello guys:
    My intent was to show enough verses that the words couldn’t be taken out of context. Yes, Chuck, we must take all the Bible to heart and do our best to follow it wholeheartedly. Chuck, I used those verses Romans 1:25 – 27 to specifically address the issue at hand, homosexuality. The Bible is a complete work of the Lord, given to us as a road map of how to follow Christ and become Christians.
    If we look at Genesis 19 and when Sodom was destroyed, along with Gomorrah and several other cities, they were called sinful to the point of being destroyed, yet the one that seems to stand out is that they wanted to know (OT term for having relations with) the angels that came to see Lot.
    Leviticus 20:13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
    How about 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
    You see, Old or New Testament, God does not allow for homosexuality. To not inherit the Kingdom of God is to be sent to eternal damnation in Hell.
    I’m not giving my opinion, I’m simply stating what the scriptures say. Incidentally, Paul teaches us in verse 11 here, that it can be overcome with God’s help. These folks were washed in the blood (baptized) and justified to God, seen as holy through Christ.
    Snicks, I don’t know much about the Catholic Bible, so I can’t say anything for or against it. I am a Christian with no denominational ties, we follow ONLY the Bible. My Bible reads in 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
    My NASB teaches me that what God has given us is true. All His prophecies have been fulfilled in Christ, short of His return. History bears the stories to be true. Men may fall short of belief, but the Bible bears only truth. The day I believe that the Bible isn’t true is the day hope will die in my soul. In spite of my MANY imperfections, God is still true and the only absolute truth there is. He is perfect, loving, forgiving, light, truth, holy and righteous. Why not come to Him on His terms, for only His Son Jesus has the terms of pardon for your sins and mine.
    Write me back and I’ll tell you more about His way.

  • rick coleman

    Lab, thank you for letting me know what Jesus was thinking. The point you made was open prayer in school, graduations ect. You should not have to put your kids in private school but shools should’t have to cater to your beliefs, any more than they should not serve any pork products because it offends Jews and Muslims. I am sure many parents are gratefull for sex education. As for the other religions being taught, that is news to me unless the school offers a world religion course wich ceartainly should be an elective and not required.
    Again I state Jesus knew all things to come, why do think he didn’t condem homosexuals or call it a sin. He certainly spelled out adultry although one gospel gives exception for only the wifes infidelity, the other gives no exceptions.
    No one has yet ansered me if they oppose giving people the right to commit adultry by forbiding divorced people from remarring. If you want fight to keep people from breaking one of the 10 commandments why are you all so bent on keeping gay people from marring and getting the rights that come with marriage.

  • rick coleman

    Robert what is your take on Matthew 19:10-11. again all the points you make are attributed to the apositals not to Jesus. Again the Ctholic church chose these books. If you are going to go back to leviticus wich is Jewish law, we would be stoning people nightly at the city gates for everthing from losing your virginity before marraige to eating a ham sandwich.
    Yes the men fo Sodom aproached Lot to send out the Angels so that they could sodomize them. But ask almost any Rabbi and they will tell you the sin of Sodom was the sin of inhospitality to strangers.
    We were told that all would be revield in the end times, is it just a coincidence that the dead sea scrolls have been, new gospels the Ctholic church tried to destroy have come to light.

  • rick coleman

    Robert one more thing, God wrote the 10 commandments, man wrote erything else.

  • LAB

    Mr. Coleman, again you miss the point. What I said was “My children can not pray in school, can not receive a send off prayer at graduation, can not sing Away in a Manger at the school program, because it may offend a non-believer. But my children are taught evolution, alternative life styles, all about other religions, abortion rights and are given condoms, with no regards to offending believers.”
    Meaning, that the practice of anything religious is deemed unconstitutional, that which the UNBELIEVER deems as inappropriate and against THEIR beliefs, or in this case unbelief. Yet the school systems can teach on subjects as evolution, religions, other than Christianity, and sexual perversion/alternative life styles, even though it may offend believers, and no these are not elective courses. And excuse me, teaching homosexuality is not teaching sex education.
    I do not know what verse you are referring to when you say Jesus didn’t condemn homosexuality or call it sin. But I will say this, sin is sin, if God calls it sin, Jesus came to save the sinners. And again I say who’s law will you stand under, God’s or man’s. And seeing that you continue to bring up the divorce, remarrying, and adultery issue. I do not condone it, I have been married for 30 years, and even if not a good marriage, I would remain in the marriage, keeping my vows, to God. Now the issue for those who divorce, get married again, and commit adultery, will face God, and I did not change the laws regarding divorce, or the churches, man did, not God.
    I will say this, show me in the Bible same sex marriages, show me in history same sex marriages or behavior, done openly, then maybe, maybe we can talk. But until God changes his word, I will stand on God’s side, and not man’s. History will tell you that it was wrong then, because it was done in secret, and anything done in secret, is wrong, or why hide ?

  • Pris

    Amen Bill, Tim and Abeil now a day we can’t be to careful to be led away from the flock because a wolf has slipped in. I know the days are getting shorter and Christ will return soon and that means people who CLAIM to be Christians will come out of the wood work and try to change the minds of people to Satan’s side but we as Christians can change that by believing and by prayer. We as Christians need to stick close together and show the non believers or false prophet that Christ is real and there really is a HEAVEN and if they don’t find Him now they will spend an eternity in Hell. And for Elijah A, Alexander, Jr u must know the bible to quote a scripture like that and if u know the bible then that means u also know the verse that says that man shall not lie with another man or they shall be put to death it is specifically talking about homosexuality. If u know the bible then u should know also that to believe in God u must also believe HIS whole truth and HIS word which is the bible. I feel very sorry for the people this woman is leading away from God all so she can lead people to a life of pain and suffering. Last thing before I leave homosexuality is a sin and if I believe in God like I say I do then I have to believe what Christ says in the bible is His only truth and even though it is a sin we should still treat everyone equal not saying I agree with it but we also as Christians should never ever treat them any different cause God sees all sin the same no matter how big or small. And for all u who might get mad at what I wrote I tell u this I have several friends that are gay and even though I don’t agree with it and I have told them I don’t condone it, they understand where I’m coming from just like I understand where their coming from and I still love them as Christ has loved me. Remember CHRIST hung on that cross for every ones sin.

  • Miss King

    To the PLEASE read 1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders,10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanders nor swindlers(a person that cheats lor defrauds) will inherit the kingdom of God. For these are the last days: 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. The Enemy, the Devil, Satan all one person is REAL he set out to kill, steal, and to destroy…God made Adam n Eve not Adam n Steve (no joke) that is REAL, God is REAL n he means serious business we are just passing through hell is REAL n if we want to make it to that place we are going to have to face the true living WORD of God and be obedient to his word n that’s IF we want to see Jesus

  • rick coleman

    Lab of course you don’t what verse I am refering to when I say Jesus didn’t condem Homosexuality or call it a sin because there iwsn’t one! That is my POINT! Don’t you think he knew this would be an issue? He ceartainly took time out to spell out what constitutes adultry.
    If you don’t like your children being taught evolution maybe you can go back in time when the church told us the earth was the center of the universe and the sun revolved around us. The killed anybody that was smart enough to disagree. Where do your kids go to school? I’ve never heard of school teaching abortion rights, are they forcing your kids to bring home condoms? Are they trying to teach your children to become homosexuals that what it sounds like when you say they are taught alternative lifestyles, They exist shouldn’t your kids know it. Then you can tell them at the dinner table that it is a sin and evolutionreally isn’t true. If you children are forced to have tolearn about any religion in school then I am truly sorry and I think you try and contact the aclu to get it stopped.
    No I can’t shoe you same sex marriage in the bible but I can give you multiple verses that stae any one who gets a divorce and gets remarried commits adultry and as far as I’m concearned God only gave Man 10 commandments direct from his had adn do not commit adultry adlulry is one of them, no mention of homosexuals period. WE aloow and condone this sin why sould homosexulas not be given the same rights to sin? Just discrimination.

  • rick coleman

    Jesus never said anything about homsexualit that is my point! Don’t you think he knew it existed and would be a hot topic. He did however spell out what constitutes adultry. No ther is no same sex marriage in the bible although King David and Johnathan swore an oath before God to become one soul.
    There are many verses, old and new testament that call getting a divorce and getting remarried adultry. We allow and condone this sin, why discriminate against the gays.
    As far as your kids and their school, where in the world are you? Are they forcing you children to take condoms? Are they trying to teach your kids how to become a homoseual, thats what it sounds like alternative lifestyle exist why shouldn’t your kids know about them? you can sit them down at home and tell them it is a sin, and evolution isn’t true. if you want them to be taught creatinism send them to Sunday school, it’s free. If your children are being required to learn about religion in public school, I suggest you contact the ACLU I think you have a law suit.

  • rick coleman

    Miss King have you read Matthew 19:10-12?


    I would like to address what Rick Coleman said. Across what pulpit do you hear anyone advocating adultery? The point is not what we as Christians can tolerate, but what does the Holy Spirit dictate? Adultery and homosexuality both pervert God’s intentions for sexual relationships: the strengthening of intimacy, the production of life, and the celebration of unity within a holy relationship. God invented sex for us to enjoy, but our bodies are to be under submission to God, and not to our genitals! Jesus didn’t preach against stealing to the two thieves beside Him on the cross, but would you assume that He’s alright with theft? Many issues are not covered directly by Jesus. He had a short time to lay the church foundation that would be cemented with His sacrifice and blood. Homosexuals must know that He died for them also and that they are welcome to accept Him as Lord. We have to stop playing political games because their eternal souls are on the line. We must stop trying to make them feel better on earth at the risk of them being tormented forever. Let’s invite them into the church and allow the Holy Spirit to shape their behavior. But if we try to spare their feelings, God will hold us accountable for losing their souls: homosexuality is an abomination to God.

  • Bernard

    Dear Miss King, some of us would rather pray for these wise persons than join issues with them. Given the opportunity, men, including some christians, will search for even ridiculous explanations to excuse errant behaviours. 1 Cor 6:9-10 is enough instruction for the wise. Please let all know that the Bible does not contradict itself.

  • Lori V

    I didn’t read the article in Newsweek, but I’m glad this was brought to my attention. The writer of the Newsweek article has obviously forgotten Rock Hudson. For most of his life his roles as a leading heterosexual man were extremely believable, and many of us feel in love with his performances. And yet… he was gay. It is only when we know the sexual orientation of an actor that our prejudices prevent us from believing the performance. I love Sean Hays as an actor because he is a good actor in any role he plays. Let’s not go back to the dark ages. I’m an heterosexual married woman with two children, but I believe that sexual orientation is something we are born with and not something we choose, so let’s honor God’s plan and love all his children.

  • rick coleman

    Miram, across the country every demonination I know is condoning adultry by allowing divorced people to get remarried in the house of the Lord and giving them God’s blessing. WHen is the last time any of your pastors stood up and told the congreation anyone out there who gets a divorce and get remarried ia an adulterer and is living in sin. GO and divorce this person and live the rest of your life in celibicy!! The pews would be empty and the offering plates dry.
    My point in most of this is stop trying to get the speck out of the gays eyes and get the log out of the adulters eye.
    And know Jesus didn’t preach to the two on the cross not to steal, but it did continually teach to obay the commandment. Thow shall not steal is one of them as is thow shall not commit adultry. Thow shall not commit sodomy didn’t make it.
    You may look to Romans, Corrinthians, Leviticus or any other books you think will help become closer to the lord. I have chosen to focus on the God’s law, the 10 he took time out to write himself and the words of his son.

  • rick coleman

    You are right, we must stop playing political games because their eternal souls are one the line. we must not spare their feelings at the risk of them being tormented forever. if you try to spare their feelings God will hold you accountable for losing their soul. Adultry is a sin against God and a breach of one of only 10 commandments he gave us. Let’s get them in to our churches and preach the truth and get them to repent before it is too late. If you want to save souls you will collect a lot more if you go after the adulterers. You might also want to make sure your churches are defying God’s law by sanctioning adultry.

  • AW

    The sins of the world, through the Blood of the Lamb, Jesus, are forgiven, when confessed, repented and the acceptance of Jesus as Lord and savior
    Jesus, on a hill, long ago, between two sinners, he who knew no sin, died for our sins. Forgave us, as he gave up his life, and one who was with him, sought forgiveness, and joined him in paradise, a thief.
    The Commandments, though man breaks, if confessed, is forgiven, and yes that includes adultery and homosexuality, though homosexuality is not listed in the ten, given by God. Divorce should not be taken lightly nor adultery, and I know many churches will not perform marriages, if one or both have been married before. I also know some churches offer in depth counseling for marriages that are not on solid ground, and also for divorced people seeking marriage, before they perform the ceremony, in hopes of teaching them that the commitment is for life,not until it no longer pleases them.
    The churches are not teaching and reaching the people because they have to touch with kid gloves, people do not want to hear that they are sinners, the world does not want to be told that their wrongs will bring judgement and sinners don’t want to hear the truth, when it interfers with the pleasures of the flesh.

  • LAB

    Mr. Coleman, again you still don’t get the point, and I pray, God will open your spiritual eyes and ears. The point is, believers are Forced to tolerate, forced to accept, issues that go against their beliefs, all in the name of freedom of choice. Yet, the believer is restricted from that same freedom.
    A Christian will share all they have, all they know, yet a Christian can not openly practice their belief, because it infringes on those who do not believe, even though the Christian is not demanding you to believe, to accept or to participate.
    We can pick apart and throw scripture and still be on both sides of the issue. Freedom, we all have the freedom to exercise choice. My choice is that marriage is between one man and one woman, and the two shall become one. I believe God created Adam, and for Adam, God created Eve. And I will add, that the all knowing God, knowing the course mankind will take, with free will, to choose, that with this issue in mind, God, who will not stand in between man and man’s free will, and if same sex relationships were acceptable to him, then why did he only create Eve ? For Adam. I mean, why would God not provide the choice of female and male for Adam, as his partner, his helper, in life.
    I am not God, and I admit there are many things I do not understand. But with the understanding I do have, I know right from wrong and using common sense, just basic common sense, sexually, intimate relations, a woman’s and a man’s body goes together. Where as two men or two women, the same, does not. God does not hate sinners, he hates sin, all sin, and though we may try hard, we all fail, and come short.
    If we are going to change the custom, which has been established from the beginning of time, found in all cultures, then that would leave the door open for all customs and laws to be rewritten, that the Ten Commandments to be rewritten or even abolished, leaving us with a world void of law and order, where anything goes. Which by the looks of things, we are not far from it.
    Now, a sinner I am, though I have not committed a majority of the sins noted, I am guilty just the same, of sin. Jesus came to save the world, for the sins of the world. Jesus did not point out the sins, but called attention to the fact that sin separates us from God, to search our hearts, convict ourselves, confess, repent and sin no more. He came to unite us, and the devil roams this world to divide us, and it is written, that a house divided, will not stand. A person does not have the right to enforce their beliefs or morals on anyone. And, a person does not have the right to enforce their unbelief and lack of morals on anyone.
    I also understand your argument, one sin is acceptable but the other is detested. Sin is sin, no matter what name is given it, sin is forgiven when handed to God. Man changes customs, laws and rights to suit themselves, to suit society and yes, to suit their congregation, but God does not change. and man can not change God, to suit themselves. Jesus said that the day will come, when the church will fall away, and in that day, when he returns, will he find Faith. The church is falling away, and the congregations are being deceived, we are surrounded by wolves in sheep’s clothing, new age religion, the changing of the written word, the adding to the written word, to suit the changing times, to suit man, yet God never changes, his word, is just that, His, and God will not be mocked.
    To every soul ever born, past, present and future, has but one life to live, yet faces the challenge of what life he shall live, one that ends with the second death, damnation, or begins with life everlasting. And each must choose for themselves, Jesus just asks us to share the Good news, not in judgment, but in his Love.

  • rick coleman

    Amen AW. In my post I have never said homosexuality is not a sin, I have only said that God didn’t bother wrtting it down and his Son didn’t bother mentioning it either. I am for gay marraige because all tax paying Americans should have the same rights if the only reason you can give to deny it is religion based. We have had no problem allowing adulteres to have these right and haven’t thrown religion in their face. Treat everyone fairly andthe same and let the chips fall where they may, in the end only God knows the heart and only GOd will judge.

  • rick coleman

    Oh dear Lab I don’t miss your point I can’t get your point. All the things you say you can’t do beacuse it my offend someone, sing a hym, say a public prayer, teach creationism is not because it might offend somenoe, it is becuse it is of no value except religios and we have seperation of Church and state. Aortion rights are the current law of the land offensive yet but it is real it exist and people need to be edcated about it. The same with alternative lifestyles as repugnet as they my be to you, they exist. It is up to you as a parent to pass moral judgement on them. It is up to the eduction system not to pass moral judgement but educate. The holocost was probalby the most hideous thing that ever happened in the world but we teach it so wwe can learn. BY teching about abortion or alternitive lifestyles it open a door for you to talk to your kids and give them moral guidedence. Can you give me a good reason a public pryer or a CHristian hym would benfit a Jew, a buddist an atheiest?
    By the way you may be forced to tolerate something you don’t like, it is called civility, but no one can force you to accept anything!
    By the way my spiritual eyes were opened Janury 17, 2005, the day I died, “not yet my child your work is not finished.” Thank you verry much.

  • LAB

    Abortion is the slaughtering of the innocent, for selfish reasons.
    Murder is the taking of another’s life. Stealing is taking what is not yours. Coveting is also stealing, coveting your neighbors wife is adultery, and man shall not lay down with another man as he does with a woman. And the only one not in the Bible is abortion, I feel it is a choice, it is not what I believe, and God will deal with it, as he will deal with all issues that are against his will for man kind.
    And I will rest my case, as taught, it is useless to argue with an unarmed person.
    I uphold God’s teachings, his word, and try by best to live according to his will, for his will, will be done. As required by God, I love all of his children. And last, this world and man’s laws, rights and lack of values and morals, holds no authority over me, and I choose to stand on God’s side.

  • AW

    Rick, I can understand that, but with rights being equal, that would open up adoption rights, which by all means, I am not saying that gays can not be loving parents, that they can not raise great future citizens, but it would bring with it, changes that effect others. Just recently a letter to the editor in our local newspaper, from an upset mother, about the school her small children attended, where the parents received a letter from the school, explaining that the children will not be making Mother’s Day gifts or cards to be sent home, because a few classmates, who live in homes , with gay parents, who do not have a mother, or who have what is considered, two mothers, and that being the case, the school can not allow a child to make more than one, or not make a gift.
    And yes, though not a major, life threatening decision on the schools part, and also a considerate gesture for the child’s feeling, but it also is the lack of consideration for the majority of the classroom and their feelings.
    As a mother, I treasure my gifts made with love from the little hands of my now grown children, and yes, it was always looked forwarded to, knowing they were hard at work on something special. I had five children, and so as the younger ones were growing up they couldn’t wait until their special gift would be added to the collection of their mothers treasures. But now, mothers are being denied the treasures from their children, and their children are being denied the honor to create a gift, because of a few, because of a choice made. because of equal rights !
    A nation, a society, that claims to do all things for our children, yet it is the children who are hurt by the very things society does. Again I say a minor thing, oh but a major thing to a child. So you see, making straight one path, makes crooked another , another way to put it, equal rights does not necessarily make all things right. It is the fallout that concerns me, and this is just one, of many issues that will arise. With equal rights, comes responsibilities and consequences, both earthly and Biblically. Are we sure that is a course that is good to take !

  • rick coleman

    I am soo glad you treasure your mothers day cards would your life really be that different if you didn’t get a card, Would your children love you any less if they didn’t make you a card with tax PAYERS money. These little changes are no where near the rights that are being denied to people. All you have to do is look at the news and you can see that there are plenty of striaght parents that are doing a horrible job. Do you really think it would bad to denie a gay couple a chance to give a needy child a loving home becuse you can’t get a mothers day card.
    Lab please don’t worry about me being unarmed. I have studied the word of God from my youth, I have studied how it came to be, the original greek and hebrew manuscripts, the council of Nicea who compiled the bible. The apocrapha, and the nostic gospel, now I am trying to study and undersatnd the wisdom of the Zohar. If Satan was able to enter one of Jesus’ deciples, do you not think he was presnet at the concil of Nicea? Or there when the scribes were transposing the manuscipts? All you have to do is look at the Catholic church and that should make you weary of anything that came out of it.
    When asked Good Teacher what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life? He said to him”Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is GOD. But if want to enter into life, keep the commandments” He said to him”_WHICH ONES_?” Jesus said,”you shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery,You should not steal, You should not bear flase witness, Honor your father and mother and”you shall love you neighbor as yourself” the young man said these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack? Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go sell what you have and give to the poor. and you will have treasure in heaven; and come follow Me” but when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorroful for he had great poessessions.
    In closing, Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you saying:
    These people draw near to Me with their moth and honor Me with their lips. But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me. Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men”
    May God’s peace be with you all.

  • BB

    I love it when scripture is used out of context, and especially not the full context, your scripture,
    Mark 7:7
    “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
    ” ‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    7They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.”
    And now, a verse before and a verse after,
    1The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and 2saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were “unclean,” that is, unwashed. 3(The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.[a])
    5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with ‘unclean’ hands?”
    6He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
    ” ‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    7They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[b] 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.”
    9And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,'[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'[e] 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
    Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and teachers of the Law, the educated, not his followers, and here, is a few more-
    14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’ “[f]
    17After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18″Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? 19For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”)
    20He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’ 21For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean.’ ”
    So if I understand correctly, you call those who take a stand biblically against homosexuality hypocrites. If they comment on incidents concerning children, school, prayer, regarding denial of religious rights or something noted as minor as Mother’s day gift from children, you consider them hypocrites. And because you are educated, your opinion over rides all others. Jesus said sexual immorality is evil, as did Moses. God told Moses, Jesus is God. I think I will take Jesus’ word .
    Unless of course you deem he’s a hypocrite also.

  • rick coleman

    BB no you do not understand me and you helped with my point, the God’s law in Leviticus that every one keeps refering also included dietary restriction, yet Jesus said nothing you can eat can make you unclean so obviously that was mans law mascarading as God’s law.
    What about the comandents Jesus told the young man he needed to keep in order to be saved? You are welcome to go as far forward and backward as you would like.
    I am only calling people hypocrites who voice their disaproval of homosexuality and try to stop their rights, yet sit by quitely and allow their family and friends and Churches to violate one of the 10 commandments. This is also one of the commandments Jesus said you must keep to have eternal life. How about loving thy neighbor as thy self, would you want your neighbor to keep you from having rights because of their religion. That is not very loving to me.
    I do not think I am better than anyone, but yes being educated, I feel that I can put some possibilities out there and let those who have eyes see and those have ears hear.
    I don’t think it is hipocritcal for someone not to want gay rights because their children will not be able to make mothers day cards in school. I think it is just sad that someone would denied a needy child a home and a family for a card. What are they doing making cards in public shool anyway, shouldn’t they be learnig math and science. i made cards in Sunday school.
    I don’t know how much of this you have followed, but most this has come from my belief that you should not be able to denie people rights based soely on your religious beliefs in this country which seperates church and state. Until they makes gays tax exempt they should have the options all other Americans have.

  • Mary

    Oh, for goodness sake’s, folks, they are only talking about acting here, not the many serious arguments you are making. I agree with the author-there are roles out there for gay and straight actors. If the actress wants to speak out about one article, let her. No one has to agree or disagree with either. Why don’t you put all this energy into voting this year?

  • http://http sarahb

    Some people are Christian in name only. They believe in christian values only if and when it agrees with their own views. If not, they speak out in the name of Christianity which give people the wrong impression of Christians. She seems to think , because she is an actress, she is an authority on right fron wrong, rather than the Bible. she make me wonder if she is gay, or Lesbian. I know some gay people who are wonderful people, but speak out against their sexual orientation and they, like Kristen become very angry and acid tounged. I had never heard of this girl until the Newsweek article came out. This reminds me of some country music stars. the get famous for singing somebody done me wrong songs and even though half of them haven’t even finished high school, the think singing country music make them a authority on politics. They can’t see that their ratings always drop when they start talking politics and show how ignorant they are. tional

  • rick coleman

    Mary that has been the main point of almost all I have written. Befor they use all their energy to go out and vote, stop and think, is there any reason other than my religious belief that I should vote for a canadate or a proposition that denies gay people eaqual rights in a country that is supposed to seperate church and state.
    Would I be loving my neigbor as myself. Put yourself in their shoes. Would you want any group to keep you from having equal rights because of their beliefs and the fact that they are a majoriy?

  • AW

    Rick, you are not going to convince anyone based on your approach to the issue, and your handling of their post. I posted about an incident in my area, regarding Mother’s Day, which you picked apart, had no compassion, and discarded the fact that many other issues will arise. You want us to have compassion yet you have no compassion .
    The Mother’s Day incident, I find it appalling, that children are already being caught in the middle. That small children, in a school district, singled out, to be used , based on a handful of households, that happen to be homosexual households. So, loving my neighbor, as myself, yes, but how about my neighbor loving me.
    You know, people want respect, but people don’t give it.
    If Biblical reasons you will not accept, which is your right, because you have a problem accepting what is written. Whether it is God given, or man written, I will put it this way.
    Naturally speaking, the body, male and female, though identical from head to toe, except for the sexual organs, function the same, and so on. Male and female, with sexual desires, come together for sexual pleasure, naturally, according to their sexual organs, and also for reproduction Now, the male and female bodies are different, yet work together sexually. Homosexual sex, two males or two females, goes against the natural use of the body, sexually.
    Scientifically, the body, bodies, like a magnet, two south’s or two north’s, don’t come together, don’t attract, in fact, a reaction against coming together happens, they repel.
    Animal world, the male will mount the other males to show power, dominance and superiority, not sexual desire.
    Custom, ritual, of the United States of America, marriage, between one man and one woman. You can call it law, or a right, it does not matter to me. It is what was established as the custom of our Nation. And as immigration opened other nationalities coming to our Nation, our customs, laws, rights and so on, were to be assimilated to, not changed. Not saying this is an immigration problem, but stating that changes to what has been established will not be an option. Meaning you have the right to your customs, your religion, or no religion, but not outside of our Laws and Rights, not adding to it and not changing it.
    Homosexuality is not a new fad, it has been around forever, just not openly, and now, because it is done in the open, you want society to embrace it, to say it is ok, and here, it is all yours, rights, laws and protection, go ahead, redefine marriage, redefine family and all will be fine.
    Fallout will happen, it will effect us all, and as I had said, it has already begun, with children, a holiday set a side to Honor Mother’s, DENIED, so not to offend.
    Rights, we have laws against discrimination and sexual orientation is included. A person, of age, can leave their worldly goods to who ever they want. Insurance, and who it covers, does not fall under a right, it is the insurance company policy, take that issue up with them. Life and death situations, again. a person of age can give permission to whom ever they want, in writing. Social Security benefits, go on a private retirement plan, and don’t pay into Social Security .
    Entitlement and the pursuit of rights, always has a backlash, and it never effects the pursuer. Life as we know it will be changed. Just take a look around. Christmas songs in school programs or public performances are no longer allowed, because they may offend, Merry Christmas has been replaced with Happy Holidays, prayer removed from schools, the Ten Commandments removed from court rooms, to name a few. The national days, set to honor Mother’s and Father’s will be next, so not to offend those who do not live in a home with a mom and a dad. Whether it be a law, a right or a tradition, whether it be man’s or God’s, the change will have a ripple effect.
    And maybe you have noticed, and again maybe not, it is the Christian and Christian values, belief’s, and morals, their rights, their customs and their traditions, that are infringed upon. Separation of Church and State, was so that Government, whether Federal or State could not enforce one said religion, therefore, prohibiting prayer in school is unconstitutional. Granted, if a child wants to he/she may, for prayer can not be stopped, a song can not be stopped, a thought can not be stopped, but then again.
    You make many references to the Ten Commandments, yet question verses in the Bible, claiming God given and man written. The Bible is God inspired, the New Testament, Jesus, and that he did not dwell on homosexuality, he did not dwell on all sin, he lumped sin together, the sins of the world, covering all sins, man will commit. Jesus said to Love one another, as God also Loves us. He did not say conform to the world, but to come out of it and be Holy, for God is Holy. Also, in good conscience I can not condone, accept, embrace or tolerate this life style choice, on the grounds that first, it will further deteriorate the family structure, it will infringe on my beliefs, and it will effect society , someway and somehow.

  • BB

    As per God, to Moses.
    Leviticus chapter 18 (GWT)
    1 The LORD spoke to Moses, 2 “Tell the Israelites: I am the LORD your God. 3 You used to live in Egypt. Don’t live the way the Egyptians do. I am bringing you to Canaan. Don’t live the way the Canaanites do. Never live by their standards. 4 Follow my rules, and live by my standards. I am the LORD your God. 5 Live by my standards, and obey my rules. You will have life through them. I am the LORD.
    6 “never have sexual intercourse with anyone related to you by blood. I am the LORD.
    7 “Never have sexual intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother. Never have sexual intercourse with her.
    8 “Never have sexual intercourse with your stepmother. She is related to you through your father.
    9 “Never have sexual intercourse with your stepsister, whether she is your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter. It makes no difference whether or not she was born in your house.
    10 “Never have sexual intercourse with your granddaughter, whether she is your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, because she is related to you.
    11 “Never have sexual intercourse with a daughter of your father and his wife. She is your own sister.
    12 “Never have sexual intercourse with your father’s sister. She is your paternal aunt.
    13 “Never have sexual intercourse with your mother’s sister. She is your maternal aunt.
    14 “Never have sexual intercourse with the wife of your father’s brother. She, too, is your aunt.
    15 “Never have sexual intercourse with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife. Never have sexual intercourse with her.
    16 “Never have sexual intercourse with your sister-in-law. She is your brother’s wife.
    17 “Never have sexual intercourse with a woman and her daughter or a woman and her granddaughter. They are related. Doing this is perverted.
    18 “While your wife is living, never marry her sister as a rival wife and have sexual intercourse with her.
    20 “Never have sexual intercourse with your neighbor’s wife and become unclean with her.
    22 “Never have sexual intercourse with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
    23 “Never have sexual intercourse with any animal and become unclean with it. A woman must never offer herself to an animal for sexual intercourse. It is unnatural. ”
    24 “Do not become unclean in any of these ways. By these practices all the nations which I am forcing out of your way have become unclean. 25 The land has become unclean. I will punish it for its sins. The land will vomit out those who live in it.
    26 Live by my standards, and obey my rules. Neither you nor any foreigner should ever do any of these disgusting things. 27 The people of the land who were there before you did all these disgusting things. As a result, the land has become unclean. 28 If you make the land unclean, it will vomit you out as it has vomited out the people who were there before you. 29 Whoever does any of these disgusting things must be excluded from the people. 30 So you must follow my instructions. Don’t live by the standards of the people who lived there before you. What they do is disgusting. Never become unclean that way. I am the LORD your God.”
    GWT =God’s Word Translation;
    Also, under Jewish law, it is not a sin to be homosexual, it is SIN when acted upon, meaning homosexual sex, is sin.

  • rick coleman

    You are all right I will nevr convince any of you that in a country that sepertes church and and state it is wrong to not to allow all of yhe tax paying citizens the same right.
    I do know that when I stand before the lord and he asked me did you vote to give homosexuals the same right as heterosexual I will hold my head and say yes I did. I lived in a land that that had laws that were not supposed to be based on my religios beleif.
    As you commanded I tried to treat all your childre with the same love and dignity that I would want for myself.
    You alone are good, you, and you alone can judge a mans heart.
    I’m prepared to let the chips fall were they may.
    How will you answer? No Lord I didn’t fote to give these wicked people the same rights I would want for myself. Ifelt you deined right and wrong clearly and I thought is was job to enforce and ban anything that might offend you.
    God bless you all.

  • rick coleman

    Aw I am sorry if I hert your feelings by being to flip about the mothers day card. I just don’t see the comparision of a child being disapointed to a child being put in a loving home. Even if it is only one child, is it right to make them fell less or different bacause they are aminority. What if they have no mother beacuse she is dead.
    Some states protect sexual orientato by it is not in the federal statute. Yes you can leave your money to anyone but you can only leave it to a spouse without having to pay inharitance tax. Most employeers that offer health insurance offer it for the whole family, only a few offer domestic partner benefits, If your husband dies you can draw on his social security.
    Gay, staight bisexual, hindu buddist, muslim, morman, jew, christian In America all tax payers should have the same right

  • rick coleman

    ANd please someone just answer the question, why in a country that seperates church and state is it OK to denie one group of tax paying citizens the same right as all other tax paying citizens based only on some peoples religioe belifes.
    It is an easy question. Anyone? We don’t rduce the adulters rights.

  • Jamie

    Under the United States of America’s Constitution and Bill of Rights, all American citizens, no matter race, gender or religion, are guaranteed, equal rights.
    The issue you are regarding is not equal rights per say, but rather a change in the wording of the definition of marriage, which would consider the union between two men and or two women, along with one man and one woman,as a marriage or in other words, to recognize same sex unions as a marriage, as is one man and one woman.
    This is a good debate, and really can not debate it without Biblical reference. You see, deep rooted, we are a Nation of religion, multi-culture, and traditions.
    But, I will put it this way, what is being asked, the inclusion of same sex marriages, would be to redefine the definition that has been the normal, the culture, the tradition and or Biblical,and or Multi-Religions, from the beginning of time, stretching over thousands of years, from generation to generation, here and abroad, civilized and uncivilized, mapped and unmapped lands, from days of old to present day. Change would degrade our heritage, customs, beliefs, traditions and yes religious beliefs.

  • cmb

    AW, I agree with you totally!
    Rick Coleman,
    Separation of church and state is the phrase that is used to refer to the part of the first amendment that states that Congress shall not make an established religion, meaning there can be NO LAW that states we all have to follow certain beliefs; the First Amendment actually PROTECTS our rights to pray in public, to express our beliefs, but our rights are being trampled on because people think that the First Amendment means Christians have to keep quiet, when in fact it says the opposite. On the other hand, everyone who wants me to keep quiet and tolerate sin and accommodate those who choose to live like that, they are violating MY rights!
    Do you even know what the First Amendment says? From Cornell University Law School legal information:
    First Amendment
    “Amendment I
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
    So separation of church and state has NOTHING to do with anything you have tried to tie it to. It simply means the government can NOT one day say “In this nation, ALL people MUST follow the Catholic religion (or any religion) or be in violation of the law!” It in NO WAY means that Christian views can not be expressed and that we have to have our rights violated!
    Should homosexuals have marriage rights just because they are homosexuals?? I don’t think so!! For over 200 years in this nation – and thousands before in the world, marriage was, is, and always will be (at least to the majority of us – yes, MAJORITY!) “The union between one man and one woman” Why should it change now? It shouldn’t!

  • cmb

    Very good point Jamie! I hadn’t read your post when I posted, I agree with you too!

  • AW

    Oh, Mr. Coleman, you did not hurt my feelings, in fact you are humoring me, you see, when a point is made, you ignore it, you put your agenda and the gay agenda over the feelings, beliefs, morals, traditions, and opinions of everyone who does not agree with you and is not gay.
    As I said, my feelings were not hurt, my children are grown, Thank God. And the point you missed, is that with changes, comes responsibility and consequences, that will effect all citizens, and including children. You have no right, I have no right and society has no right, to make changes, without being willing to take responsibility when the consequences arise, directly and indirectly, because of the changes made. Just as the school system acted as they did, regarding two students, in a homosexual home, two students out of a student body of over one thousand. Yes Mr. Coleman, someone needs to take a stand, someone needs to take responsibility, for this is a consequence , against children, because of adult decisions and life style choices.
    CMB, Thank you, and Thank you for your post, I was looking for what you posted and couldn’t find my file that I saved. The Separation clause is misused and misunderstood, as with Bible Scripture, which is used to suit themselves. And it is a shame, that Separation of Church and State has been used to unlawfully change and unmold the rights that our forefathers fought and died to establish for our Nation. It is also a shame, that as you look and see, it is the Christian’s toes that always get trampled. Again, Kudos.
    Jamie, well said.
    To answer you Mr. Coleman, when asked by God, where I stood as far as equal rights, I will answer with that I believe that all of your children were created equal, and therefore entitled to equal rights. When asked where I stood regarding abortion, I will say I was for the right to life. When asked where I stood in regards to homosexuality, I will say, based on my belief of your word, found in your word, I stood against it, that I believe woman was made for man, as it is written and as I understood it. I will say, I loved my neighbor, my enemies and also the unlovable, even though I was not loved in return. And I will also say that, though I tried hard, I a sinner, imperfect, failed, to always see through your eyes, Thank you for forgiveness.
    BB, thanks, I never read through Leviticus, especially in that format, I should be done in the morning.
    Christians are not perfect by all means, but Christians share, they share the good news, they travel to foreign countries to minister, to give financial aid, medical aid and educational aid. When disaster strikes, Christian ministries are usually the first responders. When communities are in need, the Christians are there. When calamity hits, it is the Christians that are called upon, with pleas for prayer, which, the Christians are already praying, before asked. Yet, Christians and our values, morals and rights, are disregarded, as if, non existing .
    I am for equal rights, and as I see it we all have them. I am not open to changing the definition of Marriage, and I stand on the grounds of Biblical, Religion, cultural, tradition, and moral reasons.

  • rick coleman

    AW glad you are finding humor in this, we all need a little levity in life. I guess we are come to this issue based on our life experience.
    I live in a world were a person can be fired for who they love, I live in a world were a landlord can refuse to rent to someone for who they love but can sued if he refuses to rent to someone based on race, Religion, gender or maritial status.( some states prohibit sexual orientation discrimination but not all)
    In the early years of AIDS I watched people who had been in a loving relationship, some over 25 years not be able to visit their partners becuase only the spouse or next of kin were allowed in.
    I watched a man who had been kicked out of his family when he was 18 die. They had not communicated in 20 years, he had become very successful. His Southern Baptist family swooped down and took everything and thre his partner of 15 years out. They even took the partners things because he couldn’t prove they were his and house was in the deceased partners name.
    In an almost identical situtation my friend had a will that specifically cut his family out of the will. “to my family who put me out on the street when I was 16, I leave nothing! The family got a lawyer and claimed their son was mentally unstaible and that his of 17 years had used undo influence on him. The homophopic judge sided with the family.
    A lesbian couple had a child. when the girl was 8 years old her biological mother died. The grandmother got custody of the child even though she had disowned her daughter and never even seen the grandchild. Now the girls other mother is forbidden to see her
    i think many of you think I am anti christian. I am certainly not. I was very sorry to see them stop celebrating Christmas in school. But then I thought what if I were a Jewish parent or Muslim, or buddist or atheist, would I want my child to be singing Christ the savior is born? They pay taxes too, and I was ok with it I will celbrate at home and at church. I can say a pryer to my self anywhere. If just for the sake of civilty.
    The supreme court knows the constitution and bill of rights and every other law in the land and they are the ones making these decisions, not the gays. Most of the law suits I’ve heard about have been filed by atheist.
    God bless you all, and may his peace be with you

  • rick coleman

    TO cmb
    the majority of us yes the MAJORITY OF US is the knid of thinking that leads to things like the holocost.

  • rick coleman

    cmb, slavery was an institution from the begining of time. The bible even gives instructions on how to treat your slaves. We evolve!
    The European Union and Canada all now have same sex marraige.
    What has happened in the countries that have had gay marriage for decades? The sun comes up in the east and sets in the west, people get up and go to work come home and have dinner and do it all over agian. People get married, people have children people get divorce.
    WHat exactly will change in your life, what rights will you lose? how will this directly effect you life, your liberty or your persuit of happines. Will it make you feel a little less superior?

  • AW

    Mr. Coleman, the HUMOR, is not in the issue, the humor is how you ignore the point, the position, the reason, someone gives for opposing gay marriage. The humor is, that you want compassion, you want understanding, you want my support, but you end there, you refuse to acknowledge my side, my concern and yes my fears, as to what will come from the change.
    Compassion, for the incidents you mentioned, yes sir, they touched my heart, yes those things are wrong, and the reality, is that those same things, same incidents, happen to those in the “straight” world. So I ask, when the same injustices without the gay factor, occur, are you just as compassionate?
    Sir, I live two miles from a well known college campus, which is also known among other things as a drawing magnet for the gays, and a great number choose to remain in the area after graduation, and in my thirty two years of residing here, I have never heard of these incidents, I have never seen “ public” display, our courts are not filled, our hospitals are not filled and our work places are not filled, with the circumstances you outlined. They live quiet lives, and draw no attention to their existence. They ask nothing of the community and expect nothing. Yes, I have lived among them, they are a part of my community , they do not force themselves, their life style choice on anyone. They do not expect anything. Do I approve, no, because of my beliefs.
    Our first accountant was gay, not openly, but just the same, gay, great guy, and we were upset when he decided to go work for his brother.
    When we look at the big picture and the effects, the outcome, we need to be ready and yes be willing to take a stand for those whose beliefs will be stepped on, Religious beliefs. So far, it is the believers whose toes get stepped on.
    The world wants compassion, the world wants, but the world shows no compassion and does not give, when it is Christian. Yes, it is the Christian that has compassion ,tolerates , compromises and overlooks, in the name of civility, and the more we do not take a stand, our Liberties, our Freedoms and our Rights, will be trampled, removed and null in void.
    The little things do matter, and when added together, become bigger , and when looked at, it comes down to Christianity, it is the Christian that continues to be singled out. And as a tax payer, why? Where’s my rights ?
    Yes, same sex marriages in other countries, have we yet gotten the verdict in, as to how it effects others ? If this issue is so important so dyer to their existence, then they have options, they have these other Nations, other counties, they can leave, they can move.
    This is America, where people flee to, to be free, as outlined in our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, our compassion, our love and our liberties, and yes, with a lot of blood, sweat and tears, this Nation was built, on Biblical Truths, which can not be denied. But now, we are asked to set aside, Biblical Truths. No, America should not cave in, should not be forced, to give up the Christian values, yet again.
    Sometimes, what is good for the goose is not good for the gander. We will soon find out concerning Government Health care, because other Nations have it, other Nations provide it, others Nations do it. And then again, we are not other Nations.
    Discrimination laws, where yes they are important, and a shame that the human race should need to make such laws, but the other side of the coin is then discriminated against, the property owner, the business owner and so on, he who takes the risk, whether it be renting or employing, meaning, when the decision to made, who to rent to or employ, will my property be taken care of, will they pay, will they be reliable workers, can they do the job, then becomes a fearful decision to be made, because if I decline them, let’s say better qualifications, better references, someone could accuse them of discrimination. Let’s face it, we all fall under the race, gender, religion and sex orientation clause.
    And the point , under our laws, we all have rights to, and then comes, one or two changes, and when looked at in the light, the scales are tipped. And after further discovery, it is the Christian, who has been slighted. The Christian, has been struck across the face, and has turned their other cheek. The Christian has been asked for a mile, and has gone two. The Christian has been asked for their robe and has also given their cloak . The Christian has given their blood, sweat and tears, along side non-believers, is not that enough, where as we are asked also to set aside our beliefs, our values and our morals. What will I lose, I will lose the sanctity of Holy Matrimony , what I deem as a commitment between a man, a woman and God. And yes Mr. Coleman, divorce, has already slapped Holy Matrimony across the face, I know, another issue, but isn’t one issue against it, enough ? But with divorce, began the breakdown of the family, with the removal of prayer, began the violence in schools and at schools, not to forget also the work place. The removal of Christmas songs and Merry Christmas has further removed Christ from Christmas and further commercialized it, taking away from the true meaning. My point, by their removal of God, from everyday life, whether they believe or not has effected us all, by not following basic truths, like divorce, it has created havoc in the family, that effects us all. Again, compromising, for a few, for a group, without taking responsibility for the consequences, which effect us all. So no, on this issue, I stand my grounds, and say enough is enough.
    The Holocaust, goes to show, that following ones agenda is not always a smart thing to do, the right thing to do, the moral thing to or the humane thing to do. The same goes for slavery, yes from the beginning of time, brought here when the nation began, until it was abolished, and we learned from it.
    Yes, I can celebrate in my home, I can pray, in my home, silently anywhere, and in church, and for whoever and whatever God places on my heart. I do not deny any other Religion their right to practice, pray or celebrate, in fact I welcome it, because I would learn from it, with the right not to agree. And also I think all children, regardless of race, gender and religion, should have the same opportunity. You see, religion, culture, traditions, are important, interesting and also a learning experience, yet when one or however many changes are made, the opportunities are no longer available.
    And, at the end of the day, as the sun goes down, it is still the Christian, who kneels and prays for all of God’s children, it is still the Christian who does not force anyone ,and it is still the Christian who will be giving up yet another part of their beliefs, their values and their morals.
    May God Bless us all.

  • R Neutral

    AW what did you read? I thought Mr. Coleman addressed each point quite well. 1:I especially liked the we evolve comment. That no ohter countries do it.Well now we are the only country in the western world who does not allow gays to marry.
    The what has happened in the other countries that have allowed gay marriage answered your question and concearns about what the future might hold.
    Eveyone keeps saying “they want to take away Cristians rights” I’m with Mr. Coleman, I’ve never heard of a gay rights rally to remove religion from anything. It is almost always an atheist. To the person that quetioned his undertanding of the first amendment, He made the point that even our right wing supreme court have held up these changes.
    I live in Atlanta and I have heard of the man that got kicked out by the in-laws. The lesbian that lost her child, and the inability of people to see there dying partners. That is the case even today, If you are critically and can not give consent, only spouse and immediate family can visit.
    He covered the point of should gays be allowed to marry just because they are gay? No tehy should be allowed to marry because the are tax paing american citizens.
    I will adress your point as to the rights of the oh so holy employer and landlord. This person would obviously be against atheist, yet they would be sued if they refused them. I am sure they would be eaqualy appalled to rent to an adulterating couple, yet he could not refuse them.
    You say you live in a town with many gays, are you friends with any of them. You might want to ask any of them about discrimination.
    He gives detailed priviliges we take for granted like the visitation rights, and transfer of property. I’ll add another perk we get, most insurane is cheaper for us.
    I like the closing too. How will two people fo the same sex getting married going to affect my life? It isn’t. I would have no idea if the two guys down the street have a marriage certificate or not.
    So as to comply with the second most important commandment To love my neighbor as mself, I will treat them like I would like to be treated and but out of something that has no affect on me or my familiy.
    In land where two drunk strangers can get married in Vegas by Elvis, and a woman on her 5th marriage can be afforded these things, I say good luck gays.
    AW you said you kids are grown and you now have grandkids so you must be old. Times are chaning ask the younger generation. I’d say we have 5 to 10 years before the old gard thins out and a more open minded generation. This is a generation that has grown up with Will and grace and brokeback mountain.
    What I haven’t seen in any of these posts is an answer to his point that these are tax paying americans, he also

  • Rick Coleman

    AW Gay marriage has been legal in the Netherlands for 10 years and Belgium for 8, pretty good test runs.
    Yes I would just as compassionate if this happened to a straight personI would like to know of an instance where a parents wishes overroad a spouse of 20 years unless the spouse was a suspect of attempted murder.
    The incident with the will really did happen. My friends that are in relationships were so outraged they video taped their wills and had them witnessed by a friend who is a psyciatrist.
    A Nutral, thanks

  • Mind my own business

    AW you and Mr. Coleman have quite a thing going, both with good points, but I’m curious about your endindg.
    If Gay marriage passes, we Chritians can still believe it’s and with free speach we can tell them it is wrong as long as is not on governmet property. Giving up our values? No one can make me attend a gay marriage or accept them in my home. Losing our morals? They don’t want us to be gay.
    Until I see how this will adversly affect me, I’ll mind my own business. I’d rather face God and say I di nothing than make a moral judgement and keep someone from sharing their love and getting the benefits I enjoy.

  • AW

    R Neutral, first no where did I say that gays were attempting to take away Christians rights, what was said was, the changes to laws and yes rights, have a direct and an indirect effect on the Christians beliefs, morals and values.
    Also, if you read correctly, I had genuine compassion, regarding the issues he posted, and also stated that straight people go through those same issues . Yes, I am friends with a few, they happen to be friends of my children, yes some very good conversations and they do not flaunt it, they just want to be left alone.
    My in-laws have an apartment building, and the renters include, 2 single woman, one single man, a homosexual, a black family and a disabled couple.The application they use, which I created, has no questions regarding race, gender, religion or sexual orientation, and they have used it for over twenty years. The decision is based on the ability to pay.
    We are also in business, and thankfully our employee’s are sent through the union, so they are hired based on their ability to perform the job. The only problem, no females, construction work, and too few in the trades. We did hire a female bricklayer as an apprentice, but the work was strenuous, so she changed occupation.
    So, I do not deny based on race, gender, religion or sexual orientation, except when it comes to marriage, and for Biblical , religious, reasons.
    My age, has nothing to do with anything, and the fact is, I am a very young grandparent. But thanks for discriminating against those you consider old. But then again, old people are TAX PAYERS also.
    Mr. Coleman, first Thank you, this last post, civil, so I apologize, if I was too strong or if I offended you. I am a mom, and when I see the effects that children must endure because of adults, because someone did not look ahead to see the consequences, mom raises her sometimes ugly head. And it does not matter whose child it is. My parents sent me to school without a worry, boys carried pocket knives and a few girls carried them in their purses. I sent my kids off to school, with a few worries, they rode the bus, drugs, the normal worries, but escaladed because of the violence, the shootings. And now with grandchildren, though in elementary, they have experienced lockdowns and also incidents where a classmate threatened to bring a gun and shoot someone. Now we are talking small children, these are to be the carefree days, sorry carefree for who. So yes, the day God was no longer welcomed at school, carefree days evolved into very worrisome days.
    I get very passionate, don’t harm my kids, don’t attack my country, don’t attack my God, and don’t deny civil rights, and do not harm children. And do not deny my right to disagree, for religious reasons, I do not deny anyone the right not to believe. And don’t throw Separation of Church and State in my face, because how it has been used is not what it stands for, the fact is it protects every citizen, every tax payer from being forced to worship with a forced denomination.
    The incident Mr. Coleman was several years, and I can’t remember where, but it was a prominent family, they did not approve of his choice for a wife, there were no children, the wife wanted the plug pulled, but the courts ruled in favor of the parents. I have read several articles regarding children, where the grandparents deny the adoptive parent parents visitation. Gay or straight, this is wrong.
    Now, how about the compassionate side, a little humanity. By no means am I condoning homosexuality, nor am I setting my beliefs, values and morals aside, I have not changed my mind, nor have I been persuaded, I still believe it is wrong. We are talking about human beings, about feelings and emotions, and love. And I have no problem with civil unions, I have no problem with giving the right to leave personal property, to receive survivor support via social security or to be included on insurance. And I have no problem with partner decisions. I draw the line there. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Family is defined as a mother and a father. Society has excluded the welfare of our children while making laws, rights and changes, far to long, and a line needs to be drawn somewhere.
    Lack of values, morals, results in everything goes, all about me mentality, hum, sounds like the generation that will be soon making the decisions that effects the citizens of our Nation. Makes you wonder if it really was wise to un invite God from so many aspects of our lives.

  • Believer in Jesus Christ

    I’m over the “gay bashing” stuff. I’m concerned more about the morals of all the people who are MARRIED and cheating on their spouses. Tiger, Shaq, Ted Haggerty (Pastor in Colorado). All our heterosexual brothers and sisters sleeping around with each other. The ones that are married but “we have an open relationship”. Where are the values for “marriage” at these days? It’s almost as if people don’t want to get married or stay committed to the relationship because it’s to much work. They just want to have fun. So now this is okay. If you don’t like being married you just leave.
    King Solomon had over 900 + wives. I guess we have a long way to go to catch up to him. People “freaked” over Tiger’s “35”. lol….It’s sad. Sometimes we need to do what First Thess 4:11 says this “Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life to mind your own business and work with your hands.” Let’s stop finding everyone elses faults and deal with our own stuff. The Word of God says that We must believe on the name of the Lord and we shall be saved.(Acts 16:31) No where in that verse does it identify Gay, Straight, Black or White, Red or Yellow but Believe on or Call on His name, Jesus Christ, shall be saved. Period!! We lean to much on our own understanding and then we try to say that’s what God said. God doesn’t say alot of the stuff we keep saying He said. For years we have pieced and pasted this scripture with that one to make it say what we want it to say. That is Wrong!! God is Love. Jesus Loves Everybody!! “Whosoever will Let Them Come”. We never get to know the love that Jesus had for all people because we have been so pre-occupied with the message of hate towards gay people. It is so sad when I see the fund raisers that say “Stop the Gays Now, We need your help send money now”. I had to realize that we are feeding into the fear and deception of the enemy through people that only want our last penny. Who are we really following? Who’s report are we believing? His Word says through Love and Kindness He will draw all men unto Him. Not unto our way of doing it but unto Him through His Son Jesus Christ. It’s time we take a step back and re-adjust our vision. If the word of God says we fight not against flesh and blood but against the princes of the air. The the devil not your other brother and sisters. Is it possible that where it says in the Constitution of the United States that Marriage is defined as One Man and One Woman had alot to do with King Solomon and his 900 + wives. Tiger Woods and his 35 + women and all the rest of the brothers and sisters that are having the extra marital affairs on the side. The half has not been told yet. There will probably be someone “outed” worse than Tiger Woods. It’s time to teach people how to live a life of Love like Jesus. We all make mistakes. That’s a part of this life’s journey.
    Proverbs 6:16-19 says this: 16 There are six things the LORD hates,
    seven that are detestable to him:
    17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
    hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
    feet that are quick to rush into evil,
    19 a false witness who pours out lies
    and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
    Where do we find ourselves lined up in these verses? Nobody is perfect. God is the perfect One. Not Us!! It’s time we find our real purpose for living this life. What is God speaking to you? Listen to His voice and not your own. Let’s let God Be GOD!! Time is far spent on things of this world. Have you helped anybody regardless of their race, gender or lifestyle. God’s message is one of love and not hate. My family and I had a “God Chaser” moment. It’s time we move forward with God’s message of Love through His Son Jesus.

  • Rick Coleman

    AW Isent you apost earlier that might have gotten censored because of a couple of words. I think we are a lot closer in vlews than I had originaaly believed. I am glad you support civil unions. I used the word marriage a little too genericall. I actually the government should recognize civil union or domestic registry or something that give everybody equal rights. I think “marriage ” should be an issue for each denomination to decide You can have a ceremony in the biggest church in the land, but you aren’t considered married by the government until you pay your fee and file your papper work. This would also be a good way for the Gov togey some extra money.
    I feel very strongly that sexual orientation should be added to race, religion ect. We all know it won’t stop discriminaion, My first job was in a small town in NC. WE needed a delivery driver,A clean cut well dressed young black man came in, interviewe. He wasn’t out the door 5 minutes and my said to me “i ain’t hirin no N—-)
    I am 6’4″ muscular and athletic and have always been able to pass, but life in the closet is not a life. Some of my friends are not so lucky, Helen Keller would know they are gay. A landlord told one of them”I don’t rent to F–. At least with it in the law he wold have to be creative and maybe civil.
    You may have noticed how much I have focused on adultry. i believe this is one of the greatest problems facing this country, and when curches sanctify these unions for the sake of keeping membership up and the collection plates full is it reall the government sending this ountr away from God.
    When the young man asked Jesus wich commandments he most keep to have eternal life, thou shalt not commit adultry was one of them, He made clear what constitute adultry, anyone else who can’t find send a post and I will give you the references,
    Are all our families that are so worried our moral decay sitting down with their children and telling their daughters, listeh you have one shot a marriage, if it fails you will need to remain celebite or you will be an adultrees. Are they telling thier sons? How many preachers are willing to tell these truths to their congregations? How many will tell them if you get divorced you must remain cellibit or you will be commiting adultry according to the Son of God? They have no problem throwing Leviticus out every time they need to rally the troups and fill the coffers.
    God bless you

  • AW

    Rick, now isn’t this better ? Civil. And I do apologize for my sternness, the years of raising my kids, I’m 5’3”, 100 lbs, with five sons, stern is what you get.
    And yes I agree that the incidents you mentioned, should never happen, but I will say, sexual orientation should not be included, and I do agree with the militaries don’t ask don’t tell policy and I feel it should be applied also in everyday life. I mean no disrespect, society, our society, which accepts almost everything under the sun, can not be made to accept what is deemed unnatural, I will leave it at that, and again, no disrespect intended. I feel it has no face value regarding a persons character, so then why do I need to know.
    I have been taught that it is wrong, a sin, again sorry, but I do not hate or discriminate.
    And yes I am very aware your view on divorce/2nd,3rd marriages and adultery, and yes it is a sin, but I will admit that I have never really thought about since I was a child. I raised Catholic, now Baptist . The Catholic church did recognize the second marriage, but the sacraments were denied because of the sin of divorce. In my family I guess we have been lucky, maybe one or two divorces. In our church now, I am not sure about those who might be divorced and remarried, I mean I go to church to worship.
    In defense of the churches, could they be more interested in the sinners soul ? Reaching sinners, rather than punishing sinners.
    In defense of society, we sin, we walk in sin, and the sins of the world condemn us. The clergy are to reach society, teach salvation, point out sin and be a pillar in all communities. When was the last time you heard the clergy teaching damnation, teaching brimstone and fire. It has been a very long time, society doesn’t want to hear, society doesn’t want their children hearing it, so they soften their approach, they sugar coat it and treat every one with kid gloves.
    Not sure who posted it, but they said why are we so worried about getting the speck out of the gays eye, when we should be getting the plank out of the adulterers eye, not really the Biblical verse, but I must say I agree to a degree. All sin needs to be addressed, should be addressed, because the sins of the world is what has condemned us, we are our brothers keeper, we are not our brothers judge, and there is a difference. But it does seem that it is easier pointing our fingers, who wants to see fingers pointed at themselves, no one. That is why Jesus said, come to me, search your heart, confess with your mouth and be forgiven.
    I don’t have all the answers, and maybe that is why Jesus said do not conform to the world, but be set apart from it, one of those easier said than done.
    You made a good point, regarding family and sitting down and talking with them. Those were the good ole days, when moms stayed home and raised the kids. We live in bad times, broken homes, not just divorced households, but broken because there is not a stable home. Both parents have to work, the beginning of the brokenness. The TV became the babysitter , then came game devices , internet and so on. School use to be the extension of the family teaching, an education that did include values, morals and yes religion. Parents did not want this or want that, so schools stopped teaching them and here we are, parents who are wore out from the days work, no energy or time for values or morals, the kids being taught the basics at school among things they shouldn’t. And what is TV, the internet and the game devices teaching them ? What is society teaching them ? When I was growing up, the neighborhood, was a caring community. An adult saw you doing something you shouldn’t be doing, you were yelled at, and you had better stopped. Does that go on today ? Or do parents tell you to mind your own business ? They are my kids ! Hillary hit on something a few years ago when she said it takes a village to raise a child. This day and age is trying so hard to change the world, we can only pray it is for the better. And by no means do I mean any disrespect to fathers and mothers that work, I worked too, I came home tired and at times didn’t want to be bothered with being the mom.
    I was lucky, I was a mom who stayed home , until my youngest, which I was able to take to work with me. My kids were church schooled until middle school, I was home when they got off the bus, and they attended church. I instructed them the best I could. Perfect I am not, and yes a lot of heartache. But I planted good seed, and God is the gardener. I have two son’s not married, still looking, one son married, with a great wife. One son married, with children, on the rocks, with an unlovable wife and one son with a child, with a woman I adore, and wish they would marry. One attends church, three I believe still believe and one claims he doesn’t. So , as I said, perfect I am not, and my biggest mistake was taking them out of the church school and putting them in public school, because that was the beginning of the undoing of their upbringing. But there is hope, that they will return to their teaching.
    Well I think I have said it many times, I disapprove of throwing scripture, because it is always out of context, you need the previous verses and those that follow. Currently I am researching tithing, Christ did not preach on tithing, yet the Churches continue to throw the verses out there. Christ preached on being a cheerful giver, with gifts and alms. I have found that tithing was not a tenth of wages, but a tenth of the increase, from your fields, your flocks, that which was above what you needed to survive, therefore an increase. And yes, the church needs to receive, they have bills and obligations. Malachi 3:8, will you rob God, used to instruct tithing and also shame you into giving, but if you start with 3:7 and continue reading, the subject of these verses is not you and I but the Priests, for from the tithes being given by the people, they were keeping the best for themselves and the offerings to God were the lesser, or poor quality, therefore, robbing God. The people gave.
    God Bless

  • Joel

    Kristin Chenoweth is a Christian celebrity? On what planet is this? Certainly, not planet earth. The Bible defines what Christianity is and what Christianity is not. If you read in Romans 2, homosexuality is clearly defined as people who do not believe in Jesus Christ and are defiant of God’s morals and standards.
    Hey, if you want to say that homosexuality is ok, you have that right as an American. If you stand before God one day and say that, there’s not enough suntan lotion in the world to save your hide.
    On the fiscal side of things, marriage and divorce is a legal action that costs tax payers to track all these proceedings and court costs in the case of divorce. In this day and age of huge government debt, do we really want to go further in debt to pay for actions of Billy and Sammy. Let them just keep it in their home. Don’t expect others to pay for their desire to look like a normal married couple which they are NOT!!!!

  • rick coleman

    Joel, Billy and Sammy are not tax exempt nor are any Gay people. We don’t like having to pay to send your kids to school but we do it. This would be at least something for the millions we have had to pay for your kids. They would have to pay like everyone else to get a permit for the union recognized this would generate income.
    Homosexuality is clearly defined as people who don’t belive in Jesus. Chapter and verse please.That may be the dumbest thing I’ve heard yet.
    I certainly believe in Christ. I believe loving my neighboe as myself wich is the second most important commandment. I also believe in judge not lest ye be not judged. So thanks for your jusdgement I’ll save you some lotion.
    AW how can churches be saving souls when they are damning them into adulty. You seem to have the kit gloves on when it comes to this. Let’s call a spade a spade.
    WE condone adultry. No not by our words but by our actions. How can clergy heal souls until they tell people to try and not sin, we all sin but to committ adultry and do it with the curch’s bleasing is just unthinkable.
    I hear fire and brimstone all the, I can’t tell you how many preachers and televanglist have trageted their anger at the gay community from AIDS to GOD punishing AMerica on 911 for our weak stance on Homos. Never once have I heard that same heated attack at all the adulterers and that our problems are attributed to their sin.
    Like I said we live in different worlds, thigns that don’t affect us directly, we barely notice. A pastor in Germany wrote in 1946: They came first for the communist and I didn’t speak up because I wan’t a communist, then they came for the Jews and I didn’t speak up because I wsn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionist and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for me and by that time there was no one left to speak up.

  • AW

    Rick, You mis understood, or I was not clear, please reread it. I asked a question ,in defense of the church, about saving souls. Then went on to say, society is also guilty, and sir, that would include me, kid gloves, come on Rick, or am I back to saying Mr. Coleman ?
    Have I held back, am I wearing gloves ? You and I are at the fence, different sides, talking, explaining ,each others side, I thought you took off your gloves too.
    And you will not hear it from the pulpits on TV, too many of them are con artists, too many of them have been divorced and have remarried, some several times. But the brimstone and fire you are talking about is not what I was referring to, sir, I stopped pointing my finger, and I thought you knew that, I am sorry.
    Brimstone and Fire sermons are sermons that starts with the Book of Revelations, proceeds to Genesis, goes through the Ten Commandments, the Beatitudes, then rests a moment or two on the Life, the Death and the Resurrection of Jesus our Lord, and then ends with a call, an invitation to everlasting life.
    Revelations, the end, Jesus promised us Paradise, life everlasting, Genesis, as it was in the beginning, life without end, in the Garden, Paradise. Jesus, I am the Alpha and the Omega.
    Joel, ???

  • rick coleman

    AW, I do believe that all forniction is a sin, gay and straight, but I also believe two people can of the same sex can love each other as much as two people of the opposite sex.
    I feel this is proven in first and second Samuel. If David and Johnathon can swear an oath to become one soul, there should be some reconition of two peoples love regardless of gender and I don’t want even want ot suggest threre was anything sexual between them, but they were intimate.Now when he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul fo David and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.Then Jonthan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. You can read on but it sounds like love at first sight to me.
    Davids lamentation over Jonathan: I am distressed for you , my brother Jonathan; You have been very pleasant to me; Your love to me was wonderful, Surpassing the love of women.
    All lust is wrong, all love is a gift from GOD. I am older so most of my friends are in commited relationships or celibite like myself. I have told plenty fo the people I know that I think it is wrong to out having casual sex, It doesn’t go over well and yes there was a time in my life when I was fairly promiscous, but when Jesus healed me from cancer and brought me back from the dead, literally, my eyes were open and I see things differently now.
    The first part of the last post was for that person Joel, not directed at you.

  • rick coleman

    AW I did not know that explanation of fire and brimstone. I can tell you are a compasionate person. And yes it is all of society that is off the path, but with most of citizens saying they are Christians, we need the churches to be stronger and get the sheep back on the right track. The government isn’t going to do it for sure. When is the last anyone really kept the sabbath day holy, me included. I agree none of us want to look at our own shortcomings or be inconvienced in any way. We even took it upon ourselves to change the sabbath, the Jews started the tradition so I’m pretty sure they know when it is. We made up a day for easter to appease the pagans and their spring estrous cycle. I think only the Greek orthdox celebrate easter at the correct time.
    In the end all we can do is take care of our own lives and pray for others and let the chips fall. We can only save ourselves. We can’t want anything more for someone than they want it for themselvess.
    Good Luck with your family and my God bless all of them.

  • AW

    Sorry, my Joel ??? was also for Joel, looking for an explanation.
    Before going any further, Saul, Jonathon and David, correct me if I am wrong, Saul was King, Jonathon his son, legally heir to the throne, but God said David was next in line.
    True regarding the sabbath and also holidays. When I came into this world the way things are were already established. Do I honor the Lord on the Sabbath, yes, and no, because sometimes I do have housework to do, again, I am a sinner. Funny thing about Easter though, according to tradition, Good Friday marks his death, and Sunday as his resurrection, which leaves us not remembering the event with honor and truth, for this represents only two nights in the grave. So instead of Easter Sunday it should be Easter Monday, three days later, Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday night, Monday mourning. I do know that when Christ was crucified it was during the Passover, and that also the week was full of other Holy observence,law, traditions and ceremony, which God used all together for his purpose. Just something to think about.
    Like I asked, do correct me if I am wrong regarding Saul,Jonathon and David, before I go on.

  • AW

    Rick, brimstone, starting with Revelations, I agree, and really when thought about, is not a sermon, but more that of a study guide. Revelations warns the earths habitants that judgment comes, outlines sin, writes letters to the Churches, for they have sinned, warns us that the devil will be released, oh but there is hope, turn from our wickedness, come to Jesus, and life everlasting, world never ending, as it was, in the beginning, for those who believe. Then you read Genesis, as God created earth, and how he intended life, with him, had sin never entered. Is that not the quest of the believer ? To be in God’s presence, never separated from him and Jesus.
    And when you read it this way, the heartache, the sorrows, the pain, the struggles and the toil, all could have been avoided, had sin never entered . Had we not been wicked, Jesus would not have had to be crucified. A lot of if’s, a lot of if’s.
    I received an email awhile back, the Lord’s Prayer, in reverse, another good exercise for your heart,mind and soul.

  • pagansister

    Certainly a lot of self-rightous people of faith here, who think that just because their holy book apparently says homosexuality is “bad, bad” and an abomination etc. that the entire world, or at least the USA should deny people who happen to be homosexual the right to marry. Guess what folks? That is a religious law (or so you say) and this country is not Christian….and is not run by (not for lack of trying) Christians, religious law doesn’t happen to be the official law of the land. Soon we hope this country will join other countries that have had the common sense to act on civil rights and allow the marriage of homosexuals, as well as allowing them to serve in their armed services.
    Love between 2 consenting adults of the same gender has absolutely no effect on anyone’s life except those involved. Get over your religious selves and stay out of something that really doesn’t concern you.

  • BB

    Not self righteous, but Christ righteous. And this is, or should I say WAS a Christian Nation. Yes was, go and research the making of this Nation and you shall find, on Biblical doctrine a Nation is born. Not on one religion, but many religions and also many who believed not, but sought to be free, and Biblical doctrine freed them.
    You are free, because a religious person took a stand, for freedom, because several religious people, took a stand, you are free because several non believers, took a stand, to be free. Christian principals and beliefs freed you, yet today you deny the Christian their Christian principals, the same principals that guarantee you, your freedom.
    Marriage is between a man and a woman, and has been since the beginning.Call it what you might, a right, a law, ritual or custom, but from the beginning of time, a man and a woman. Why now, I ask because homosexuality has also been around, the beginning, so why now ? Where were you fifty years ago, a hundred, a thousand years ago, seeking marriage. Marriage does not define you as a couple, being a couple defines marriage, a man and a woman becoming one. You want us to set a side our beliefs, it is not that easy, for we follow God, and his law.
    Next, we will be asked to think differently about our other laws, that are taken from the Bible, like killing and stealing.

  • Houston Cindy

    Actually,a lot of our founding fathers were more Deists (especially Franklin and Jefferson) than Christians. They looked at science and said the only reason so much of this happened could not all be just coincidence, but must result from a Creative force. They put the freedom of religion in the constitution because of many of those settling “the Colonies” were outcast, such as the Quakers who were not Church of England. The founding fathers did not want any one viewpoint, whether it be Protestant, Catholic, Natural Religion, paganism, or whatever to be imposed on anyone, and preferred to encourage people to think for themselves and decide what the believed as a result of that.

  • Barb

    We love the sinner and pray for them…but hate the sin…God calls homosexuality an abomination. It doesnt get much plainer than that…the world can come up with all kinds of reasons to sin but that doesnt mean those that know the truth will go along with them..the Bible shows us over and over how to live our lives…those that tend to have it their way and live a disobedient lifestyle will ultimately suffer the consequences.

  • Doc Candle

    Sorry pagansister,
    You lost your argument when you stated that this was not a Christian Nation. Our laws are based DIRECTLY on the Ten Commandments and the nation was founded by Christians, you would do well to learn that. And while we are not a Jewish nation because we follow the rights espoused by Christ remember Christ was a Jew!

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