Idol Chatter

Idol Chatter


Germany Won’t Outlaw Scientology

posted by Kris Rasmussen

tomcruisepic.jpgGermany has made no secret of their complete and utter distaste for Scientology in recent years. Last year, government officials dared to ban Tom Cruise from filming on location because of his Scientology affiliation. But that was really only one minor incident in the government’s surveillance and investigation of the organization in an attempt to ban the Church of Scientology from the country altogether. However, the government has now dropped its attempts citing insufficient evidence. But, government insiders say that the organization will continue to be monitored by the government because of concerns that the tenants of the religion go against the constitutional principles of Germany.
The Church of Scientology is celebrating this decision as protection of freedom of religion and as a hopeful end to alleged persecution of its members in Germany. I suppose I should be celebrating along with them– however reluctantly–because governments limiting reasonable religious expression is never a good idea, no matter the religion. But Germany hasn’t attacked the Church on grounds of religious expression as much as it has sought to define the group as a business and to attack its corrupt business practices. I think it would be great if the United States and other countries would try that angle in dealing with Scientology as well.
Tom Cruise at LocateTV.com



  • http://www.scientology.org Rev. John Carmichael

    Kris Rasmussen is right about Scientologists in Germany being entitled to their religious freedom, a right upheld in a major recent decision in the European Court (Church of Scientology Moscow vs Russia (Application no 18147/02), as well as court decisions in Germany itself.
    Members of the Church in Germany have been subjected to individual harassment, attempts to deny them access to jobs and public services, and other treatment which was condemned by the US
    State Department, as well as human rights advocates internationally.
    It is interesting to note that in the US, the Church provided millions of pages to the Internal Revenue Service in the 80s and early 90s, providing such clear documentation that the IRS was able to grant the Church and related entities full tax exemption.
    The idea that Scientology (or any religion) needs to be “dealt with” by a government is pure bigotry. Millions of people around the world testify to the benefits they have received from the application of Scientology principles to lead lives of greater happiness and respect for themselves and others. A good first step would be to see what Scientology is about, at http://www.scientology.org.
    Individuals should be free to look into a religion and choose for themselves. The results of these individual choices have made Scientology the fastest growing religion in the world today.
    Rev. John Carmichael
    Church of Scientology New York

  • Your Name

    Scientologists respect the religious beliefs of others. I highly recommend that you start doing the same, Kris. The only thing that needs to be “dealt with” here is bigotry, in the German government and perhaps yours too.

  • Your Name

    Carmicle conviently overlooks may facts. In 1989 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that “fixed donations” required of all who take course are not tax deductable items. Scientology orchestrated an attack on the IRS, having members file over 2,000 law suits against the IRS. In 1991, David Miscavige and his assistant just happened to be in Washington D. C. near the IRS. They just happened to be able to drop in and have a meeting with IRS Commissioner Goldberg. As a result, they promissed to have the lawsuits dropped in the IRS gave Scientology its tax exemption. It has been alleged in many circles that the church launched an investigation of key IRS officials to discover their “crimes”. One allegation is that they offered on laywer $1 million to lead the investigation. When Goldberg gave the church its tax exemption, two former IRS officials raised questions about that action. It was reported that Goldberg bypassed the Exempt Organizations section of the IRS which routinly handled church exeptions. It is also alleged that he ordered them not be involved in the issue. When the church stated that it presented thousands of pages of information to support their claim, one wonders why many who could have testified about serious internal questions where not asked to present information. In other worlds, it appears that no critical materials were presented for evaluation. In addition, when the Complience Committee was formed to oversee Scinetoloogy’s following of the rules, all members were somehow realted to the organization. And in the new structure, the Chcurch of Spiritual Technology, which owns the rights to Hubbard’s materials had as a member a former ranking member of the IRS staff who was there when the church breached IRS security and stole IRS materials. There is much to be investgated here. Newspapers and Taxpaayer organzations have asked the IRS to explain these issues. The IRS has refused to comment. Why?

  • Your Name

    Added to say, yeah the good reverend walked right into it with the mention of Scientology’s dubious IRS “full tax exemption”, status. Which is why I say they’re so far removed from the earth, they can’t see where the GIANT mines are, lying on the ground.

  • http://www.xenu.net Someone who lost a brother to this cult.

    Major point being overlooked here: This battle was never about religious expression, nor was it launched with the contemptible air of bigotry. It was initiated under the very well founded suspicion that the “CHURCH” of Scientology and its various holding corporations has the intent to milk millions out of loyal and well meaning, if brainwashed and misled, German followers and relentlessly recruit the rest of the populace into its rank and file. Period.
    Never once has the German government attacked the core beliefs of Scientology as stated by Hubbard. It is only its pay-for-pray worshiping structure, its ruthless policies and its detestable actions against its own members and critics of the organization that have come under scrutiny. You can still believe whatever you like. So long as you’re not brainwashing others into doing the same.
    Note that the Freezone sects comprised of those who practice L Ron Hubbard’s prescribed beliefs outside the umbrella of the behemoth conglomerate corporate structure that is Scientology(TM) have not been hassled. The Germans have no beef with them. In fact, nobody has anything against the Freezoners… Except the Church of Scientology.
    God help you if you practice their religion without forking over the required licensing fees, royalties, membership dues, etc. I mean, enlightenment ain’t free… right?
    As far as I know, no other religion copyrights its scripture. Hell, every hotel room I stay at has had a bible (well, Sofitel and Burj Al Arab excluded) freely available.
    Keep at it Germany, don’t let them get away with it. We here in the US are counting on you.
    Also “Your Name” posting on November 27, 2008 12:06 AM, is a classic example of the drivel encouraged, endorsed and -no doubt- initiated by the Cult (there, i said it! god it felt so right too!) of Scientology. While we’re at it, and I know you guys are looking, tell me, Scientologists, if your mission is to clear the planet, why are there “required donations”? Are poor people not good enough to be saved? Clearly you have something against anyone who can’t front the money. Just as clearly, your organization has the money to subsidize courses for the down on his/her luck individuals out there, why doesn’t your glorious leader put off building another grandiose structure and actually try to HELP PEOPLE? Oh you have missions? Your missions do not provide free service all the way through the bridge. The full bridge is *never* free. Not even for Tom Cruise. Seems to me the Church is more concerned with who is paying and who isn’t rather than who is becoming ‘clear’.

  • http://www.xenu.net Someone who lost a brother to this cult.

    Note to editor: I do apologize for posting so much, but I feel quite strongly about this topic, especially so with the head of the NYC org (which I have effectively lost my older sibling to) posting here.
    Exactly what bigotry is being demonstrated in Germany? Can you give us some concrete, documented and independently referenced examples? Last I heard, your members were throwing eggs at peaceful demonstrators who only pointed cameras toward the assailants in return.
    Until then your claim stands on thin air. You do know if you could only back up your claims counter to your critics’ referenced and vetted facts, other might have sympathy for your plight. We critics obtain statements from those who have exited/escaped your organization. As i’m sure you know, the walls of your church are completely opaque to any outside parties. Tell my why. And the standard answer of “come on in and see for yourself” is not sufficent, as those who have ended up being pursued by private detectives hired by your church. As far as I and many others are concerned, the burden of proof is upon your shoulders.

  • http://sarahsilvermanonline.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/photoshoots/03.jpg Big S

    What does religious beliefs have to do with human & civil rights abuses and the remonstrations of it ? The Church of Scientology lies to the media about the world wide protests with claims of anti-religious bigotry, when a world of demonstrators are working to inform the world of the abuses by Scientology corporation.

  • Kelly Prenton

    It’s interesting to see which comments were removed from this site while Carmichael’s unfounded and slanderous accusations remain.
    Kris, why don’t you share with us the $cientology representative’s DEMAND that you remove those comments with incriminating FACTS about the organization? Why don’t you also share with us why you choose to assist them in this blatant suppression of free speach?

  • Your Name

    I think it’s perfectly fair to show the public who is at the church’s spiritual core. After all, one can hardly call youtube video clips of Rev. John Carmichael, hearsay or slander. But it is telling that even after he was plainly exposed, the church felt no need to explain it or remove him. Why?
    Is it their way of saying, “We know this really isn’t a spiritual org, but we can do what we want with impunity. Always have. What are you going to do about it, SUE US?” How else could this stand?

  • Lames “Scary-O” Jightfield

    I’m not a big fan of Scientology but at least Mr. Hubbard only wanted
    to exterminate 2% of the world’s population, not 5 or 6 percent like
    some people do.

  • Hillary

    If there were corrupt business practices being used in the Church of Scientology in Germany as you allege, wouldn’t the Germans have found it? Especially after ten years? They found no evidence of wrongdoing.

  • Liz

    Really Hillary? Can you tell me why they still remain under surveillance then? It’s because they’ve found more than enough evidence to warrant it even though they’ve been on their “best” behavior when they’ve known they are being watched.
    Now, it may not have been banned in Germany, but it’s still being recommended that it be classified as a criminal organization.

  • Mike

    “The fact that the material basis for the religion of Scientology is organised in a business-like manner can have no implications for its status as a religion. Does a work of art cease to be a work of art when it is efficiently produced for sale or exchange? It is naive to think that any new religious movement could survive in the modern world without a business-like material basis for its operations; ..even the ancient Christian churches are nowadays not averse from engaging in business affairs in order to sustain or promote their services to actual and potential members. Lacking the benefits of inherited property-wealth, endowments, patronage and a “birth right” membership, new religious movements must either act in a business-like manner or perish.” — James A. Beckford, Professor of Sociology, University of Warwick.

  • Your Name

    True it’s not like the Mormons with a 10% of annual earning, tithe, but Mike, people can’t even LEARN about the BASIC premise of Scientology unless they spend a boat load of money; as in hundreds of thousands of dollars. These people have well documented prison camps, where they hold members against their will. They engage in mind control and slave labor (.86 pr/hr), depriving Sea Org. members, including children, of sleep and adequate diet. As ethical punishment, which can just mean asking the wrong questions, they’ll lock them in isolation, hoping they’ll crack them into submission. Those who wish to leave, have to escape, and live in fear for their lives due to a ruthless “fair game” policy, which “shudders” them into silence. Increasingly people are speaking up, but many still wish to remain in the shadows. You can look this up yourself as well as the other aspect which is racketeering. See Operation FREAK OUT and SNOW WHITE.

  • Truth Wins Out, Always.

    The German government after a 10 year and a very thorough investigation of Scientology, found no criminal wrong-doing and they dropped their witch-hunt.
    Those individuals that today keep protesting spuriously about any Scientology wrong-doing are individuals who need to get a life.
    Its over. Scientology has been proved to be genuine and clean by the most hostile, most long-term and concerted attempt ever to find any evidence at all of criminal wrong doing.
    So all you complainers and moaners put your obssessive-compulsive delusions to bed, will ya.
    Good night and sweet dreams — stop going on about your nightmares and delusions.

  • Sportin’ Life’s Gotta Life

    Truth Wins Out, Always.
    And by *wins out always* you mean the easy way it’s won out with the Mafioso over the last century.
    Google up “scientology what are your crimes?”

  • Your Name

    Germany, for all you Scientologists who are griping about being unjustly persecuted, is a country that is still psychologically fragile after two world wars, which they lost. The majority of people still don’t boast national pride, and don’t scream their national ideology like so many other countries do. They fell under the brain-washing of Hitler, and have carried the shame of those actions for over sixty years. Scientology is brain-washing. It is not a religion,(as if I care, I’m an atheist and a German by birth) it is a business masquerading as a religion. Its founder, L. Ron Hubbard even stated that if you wanted to make a lot of money, you’d do well to start your own religion. The government of Germany is just trying to protect its citizenry and country from another bunch of kooks. Pay-to-pray? No Freakin’ Way!

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