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Audio: Jim Wallis on “Value Voters” on The Tavis Smiley Show

posted by God's Politics

Last week Jim was on The Tavis Smiley Show and talked about how the changing political landscape will affect the upcoming ’08 election. Jim and Ken Blackwell, former Ohio secretary of state, debated and discussed both the impact of “value voters” on the election and what those values entail.
+ Download mp3 audio of the entire broadcast
+ Visit the Tavis Smiley Show page for streaming audio



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justintime

posted October 16, 2007 at 12:46 pm


Jim offered real insights on the 2008 ‘value voter’ impact – worth a listen.
Ken Blackwell offered only the obvious.
Doesn’t surprise me though.
Blackwell is just a phony carpetbagger riding on the pro-life bandwagon.
He should be in prison for election fraud.



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Eric

posted October 16, 2007 at 2:05 pm


It sounded like they both agreed on almost everything. Good for them both being able to find mutual agreement and discuss this issue without resorting to some of the silliness found on this blog.
But why didn’t Jim get his honorific included in the summary of the episode like the other Drs and titled individuals? Racism!! Racism!!



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kevin s.

posted October 16, 2007 at 2:18 pm


“Blackwell is just a phony carpetbagger riding on the pro-life bandwagon.
He should be in prison for election fraud.”
That would require evidence that can hold up in a court of law. Why spoil the fun for the left-wing blogosphere?



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Moderatelad

posted October 16, 2007 at 2:38 pm


OK – listened.
Some story – different book.
Hello Jim – evangelicals have been concerned and working all around the world on issues of poverty – hunger – medical – etc.
You seem to be repackaging the argument to suit your focus and vision and failing to see that it has been worked on for decades. I believe it is nice that the Dem’s are becoming more ‘faith friendly’ – too bad they were so anti-faith or I should say anti-Christian back in the day that some of us that desired to have our faith influence or point of view on life only had the one party that would talk to us.
The DFL in MN is still very anti-Christian. They have the retoric down so they sound good on the CNN news bites. But there is no place for one to have any influence in the DFL if you truly want to have your faith lead the way.
Yes – we conservative Christians care about a lot, and we work in those areas too. But we seem to be a little more quiet for the most part as we do not have to scream so loud that the left hand does know what the right hand is doing.
There is much that I agree with you on Mr. Wallis but you have attacked so many in the Christian world and called them wrong – misguided – hurtful – etc. Look in the mirror Mr Wallis – you have inspired most of the one liners that I have used in the past. I am committed to being Kinder and Gentler in my posting so I am going to stop now.
I just wish you would understand that conservatives are not your enemies and even if we do not agree on everything we could work on somethings – but that will not happen just yet.
Awaiting your next obit on this site to see or your friends will handle it. I hope that when your time comes (many years from now I pray) that whoever writes about you will be nicer even if they did not agree with you and Sojo.
Blessings -
.



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Itsme

posted October 16, 2007 at 3:12 pm


I have been motivated by Jim Wallis and the Liberal-Progressive Left.
I am now going to ask to work for my Church. I’m going to oppose most everything the Democrats and their operatives like Jim Wallis have in store for my brothers and sisters in Christ. End the war in Iraq? OK. That is the ONLY thing Biblical about them. And then lets rid our American schools and political organizations of the evil spawned by the other 99% of what Liberal-Progressive theology and ideology has inflicted (and infected) on our culture and society with.
I for one have always wanted a dialogue with the Religious Left. Same way I talk with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Liberal religious et al, that way, I can point out to the children, parents and singles in my Church, who and what to avoid as they go through life. Just as any Christian should, I’ll use the very words and actions of the Religious Left (like any false or heretical teaching), to show it and its proponents for what they and it truly are.



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Rick Nowlin

posted October 16, 2007 at 5:29 pm


I for one have always wanted a dialogue with the Religious Left. Same way I talk with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Liberal religious et al, that way, I can point out to the children, parents and singles in my Church, who and what to avoid as they go through life. Just as any Christian should, I’ll use the very words and actions of the Religious Left (like any false or heretical teaching), to show it and its proponents for what they and it truly are.
You’re in the wrong place. You want not dialogue but to lecture folks on your false sense of superiority — and you know what? We’re tired of it. That’s why this blog exists, to give a voice to those of us who for some very good reasons don’t subscribe the the “received doctrine.”



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steve

posted October 16, 2007 at 5:34 pm


“I for one have always wanted a dialogue with the Religious Left. Same way I talk with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Liberal religious et al, that way, I can point out to the children, parents and singles in my Church, who and what to avoid as they go through life.”
– Can you imagine Jesus saying this?
– Can you imaging a pharisee saying this?
Please folks, let’s tone down the vitriol and act like Christians.



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squeaky

posted October 16, 2007 at 5:45 pm


“The DFL in MN is still very anti-Christian. ”
How so? I’d like to know what you mean by this with some specific examples of how the DFL has been anti-Christian.
“I am committed to being Kinder and Gentler in my posting so I am going to stop now.”
Why? Why not stick with it? I see no reason for you to abandon the kinder gentler position.
Take that high road–take it!



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Mick Sheldon

posted October 16, 2007 at 6:07 pm


ITSME said
I have been motivated by Jim Wallis and the Liberal-Progressive Left.
I don’t think that kind of motivation will last my friend . But I do see why it bothers you . Controversal issues that are at the core of your beliefs being seen negatively by those who say they share your faith and then your views misrepresented , ignored or attacked by that group . Actually my own two cents is get involved in your local community, that will do more good for furthing the Gospel then Jim Wallis will ever do .
Moderatelad said
There is much that I agree with you on Mr. Wallis but you have attacked so many in the Christian world and called them wrong – misguided – hurtful – etc
That is strange . The vast majority of Christians I know may vote on certain issues that cause them to go republican , that relate to “their understanding of the scriptures” , importance of life , foundation of civilization with a Man and Women at the head , the freedom to worship , the importance of bringing up our children with our Christian Heritage . The freedom of choosing where to live . Organizations that appear to favor secualism like stopping religious sybols from being displayed in the public square , promoting abortion rights and even tax dollars paying for them , gay rights , sex education mixing with gay rights in public schools , and a host of other agendas that appear hostile to believers come from the left . Wallis now talks about common ground ? Christians have been mocked for years by these groups , common ground ? He jumps in and continues the mocking . As if .
If you talk about the schools or any of the issues that are ignored by Jim Wallis, its because of indifference or those who support the secular view .
.
Believers who accept the Bible as the word of God will remain the same. Christians will not stop understanding the value of life because of God’s involvement in it . The awareness of what is happening to our culture is so evident among believers , those who say it is getting better in our culture are using different measurements then those that have a Bibical world view .
So the democrats win Christians get ridiculed and ignored , republicans win and the same happens .
At least its been consistent the last couple of decades .



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Anonymous

posted October 16, 2007 at 6:25 pm


Posted by: squeaky | October 16, 2007 5:45 PM
I am going to stop now.”
Just stopping at that moment of time – I still plan on being the ‘kinder – gentler’ Moderatelad. I may add in a little ‘biting humor’ but I will let everyone in on the joke.
Taking my daughter to B-Ball practice
Blessings -
.



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squeaky

posted October 16, 2007 at 6:46 pm


“At least its been consistent the last couple of decades . ”
Which is weird because the Republicans have been in charge for a very long time, and yet nothing’s changed–do you get the impression that politics can’t change the heart of our nation?



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Mick Sheldon

posted October 16, 2007 at 7:19 pm


Squeaky said
Which is weird because the Republicans have been in charge for a very long time, and yet nothing’s changed–do you get the impression that politics can’t change the heart of our nation?
Oh totally agree . Which Is basically why I find this organization so strange to be saying the things it does about other Christians in the name of Christ. As if politics holds the key to our hearts ? Look at Europe , they may resemble Sojorners politics much more , but I don’t see their Christian hearts , do you ? In fact Christianity is on the decline there as here in some denominations . .
Wish I could write better, but listen to the former Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell in this dialogue with Wallis . He is a very articulate African American , and speaks well on the side I would take . The issues he speaks to that are important to people like me , school choice , life , public education being used for public indoctrination on issues like sex education and such , the importance of honoring life after conception , etc
The democrats could speak to those issues , Soujourners could , but they don’t see them as important .
So basically two world views , your view aligning with the organizations like the ACLU , Planned Parenthood, NOW , NEA , etc .
So I am in the minority view , I know that , I think some Christians in the 8os thought they were the majority , maybe some now do also but that is lala land if you ask me . I am not what you would consider a Version of Christian purity and the best example of a Christian , before I met the Lord my ill spent youth went beyond youth . My walk with the Lord started out rocky and I have had to handle some rocky times myself . I am in the race as Paul would say , and I really try . But I notice not too many people like me at work will bring their Bible to work to read on their lunch ,
God , being someone who you trust I guess . People ask me for prayer sometimes when trouble hits their life that are secular but know down deep there is a God , or maybe just hedging their bets .
My point , we Bible thumpers are a minority , Republicans win means we get closer to issues that are important to me , and many other thumpers too . Sending my Kid to a public schools means they are challenged on the things I taught them as important . Sometimes even undermined on purpose . To people who believe God has given them a blessing and RESPONSIBILITY to bring them in a certain way , that is important to us . It will always be , to Wallis supporters it is not . The fact public education has proven itself alrerady unequal in quality that minorities receive , should at least provide you with a possibility that certain value system that allows that inequity to occur are geared in self promotion , and may nnot understand what I consider right or wrong and other Christians of my faith either .
So as I said
So the democrats win Christians get ridiculed and ignored , republicans win and the same happens .
At least its been consistent the last couple of decades



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openeyes

posted October 16, 2007 at 9:25 pm


Wow! I’ve been reading comments for quite a while and letting them soak in.
There’s so much anger and judgment, taking stands and fighting for them at all costs.
Reminds me of a pastor in town here who was asked to resign, and in response is working hard to split the church and the community. He has a clear picture of the benefits to him if this works; he hasn’t even thought about the effects of a split on the community.
He professes his call to ministry, but he’s running on anger and resentment.
Are we supposed to be running on anger and frustration — the major point being to vent and win the argument?
I don’t think Jesus agrees.



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ginab

posted October 16, 2007 at 9:29 pm


Sorry to be slightly off-topic here, but can we once and for all stop referring to high-ranking, educated African Americans as “articulate”?
There’s no novelty. It should not be surprising when people with advanced degrees can string coherent sentences together.
The unnecessary qualification should be put to rest. Immediately.



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Rick Nowlin

posted October 16, 2007 at 10:04 pm


That is strange. The vast majority of Christians I know may vote on certain issues that cause them to go republican, that relate to “their understanding of the scriptures”, importance of life, foundation of civilization with a Man and Women at the head, the freedom to worship, the importance of bringing up our children with our Christian Heritage.
To the vast majority of African-American Christians these mean absolutely nothing because they have to do with cultural authority — a concept that doesn’t exist in that community.
The issues he speaks to that are important to people like me, school choice, life, public education being used for public indoctrination on issues like sex education and such, the importance of honoring life after conception, etc.
For openers, Blackwell was bought, lock, stock and barrel by the right wing long ago, and most African-Americans understand that. (Whether he personally believes what he does is besides the point.) When he lost his race last year he got few black votes. You have to understand that Bible-believing Christians have different views and are not all cultural conservatives; if you spent any time with people other than white Christians you might get it. Or if you went to my church.
The fact public education has proven itself alrerady unequal in quality that minorities receive, should at least provide you with a possibility that certain value system that allows that inequity to occur are geared in self promotion, and may not understand what I consider right or wrong and other Christians of my faith either.
If poorer African-Americans got the same access to resources that wealthier folks have now the issue would be moot. But in truth, families do their level best to
get away from the poor — which is the real reason voucher programs always go down to defeat when put to a vote. And BTW, vouchers would only siphon the already good students from those schools because they have the more involved parents as it is.



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Mick Sheldon

posted October 16, 2007 at 10:37 pm


but can we once and for all stop referring to high-ranking, educated African Americans as “articulate”?
There’s no novelty. It should not be surprising when people with advanced degrees can string coherent sentences together.
The unnecessary qualification should be put to rest. Immediately.
Posted by: ginab
Hey Ginab I understand somewhat what you are saying , reminds me of the Bill O Reily deal that just happened . But I meant it because I am not articulate and this guys says it better . I recommend listening to him because he explains it well But what gets me is you being so pc here with me , and Rick says this, and always refers to anyone who agrees with me on any issue in the similiar way , because he happens to be African American . And from what I have learned , I guess Rick is in the majority in the black community on this one .
You can hear your silence through the blog .
So those with sin as they say
Rick says
For openers, Blackwell was bought, lock, stock and barrel by the right wing long ago, and most African-Americans understand that.



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ginab

posted October 16, 2007 at 11:11 pm


Mick,
The usual back and forth of the right and left factions on this blog has gotten a little old for me, though I still check in every few days to see if anyone has changed anyone else’s thinking on anything.
Usually not. Same old jabs and stereotyping.
But the “articulate” thing made my eyes cross a little bit. It is such a subtle slight, I know that most people who say it consider it a compliment.
I’m glad you can see why even when it’s meant well, it doesn’t translate well.
Be blessed, my brother in Christ.



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Rick Nowlin

posted October 16, 2007 at 11:13 pm


Explain that better could you? Is cultural authority a bad thing?
For the Christian, it’s the worst, because that means you no longer have a desperate need for God — you think you’re in control and no one should cross you.
Well I think if you attended my church you might have a different opinion of many conservative Christians also.
Doubt it — most of my friends even today are ideological conservatives, so I know of which I speak. But at least they understand where I’m coming from and thus there’s a mutual respect. My evangelical church is 75 percent white and the senior pastor is a Republican, but he doesn’t preach the culture war from the pulpit because it gets in the way of real ministry.
I know its not the same, but you have any books that might explain this philosophy of Bibical Justice you are talking about? I actually don’t see what your saying at times. Its sounds full of prejudice to the way I see things.
Anything by Martin Luther King Jr. would make a good starting point.
Yes it would give hard working parents an opportunity for a better education for their kids. I like it because it provides “opportunity” to a parent where his neigborhood may have taken it away.
And those kids are alienated from friends and neighbors, and sometimes even family, in the process. Not everything is based on pure academics, you know.



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Rick Nowlin

posted October 16, 2007 at 11:37 pm


Rick says this, and always refers to anyone who agrees with me on any issue in the similiar way, because he happens to be African American. And from what I have learned, I guess Rick is in the majority in the black community on this one.
It’s not just true — 90 percent of African-Americans, regardless of class, economic standing or eductiona, vote Democratic. And it’s not because they like the Democrats so much — it’s that they hate the conservatives that run the GOP with a passion and won’t vote for them under any circumstances. (They represented the opposition during the civil rights movement, you know.)
BTW, I’m probably the most ideologically conservative member of my family, which is quite conservative as blacks go — and that should tell you something. In the aftermath of Katrina I told my mother about a poll that mentioned that Bush’s approval rating in the black community was about 2 percent, and she, not given to joking, responded, “It’s that high?”



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Mick Sheldon

posted October 17, 2007 at 4:01 am


And those kids are alienated from friends and neighbors, and sometimes even family, in the process. Not everything is based on pure academics, you know.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin
Exactly my point . I give a kid ten times the chance then another if her had your Bibical outlook , even if he was flawed in your social viewpoints.



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Moderatelad

posted October 17, 2007 at 8:12 am


Posted by: squeaky | October 16, 2007 5:45 PM
specific examples of…’
It was members of the DFL in my little community where I worship that worked and undermined 3 churches to get federal aid to work with at risk and poor immigrants because they were not going to let these small conservative congregations get funds from Bush’s Pragram and make it work.
In High School – I know – back in the dark ages. We were allowed to apply and get to make elective classes for us to take on topics that were tradionally offered in High School. We thought it would be great to have discussion on the Bible and Current events. Our person that agreed to teach our class was more than qualified. We were turned down because of a flimsy ‘church – state’ issue. We challenged the decision, pointed out that they had approved a self proclaimed ‘witch’ form the area to talk about the supernatural. They had a person coming in to teach tarot cards reading, and they were turned down. As luck would have it – a small group from St Paul of MN congress-members were touring our school meeting about education. We asked them about this situation and they collectively said that the other classes were OK because they did not represent a ‘church’. When we challenged that lame excuse – one of the told us that if this went to court – he would represent the school and their decision supporting the other groups.
And these are just a few that I have experienced.
Blessings -
.



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Rick Nowlin

posted October 17, 2007 at 10:30 am


I give a kid ten times the chance then another if her had your Bibical outlook, even if he was flawed in your social viewpoints.
Most of those kids will still subscribe to my social viewpoints even if they get religious doctrine. I don’t think you understand that few poor (and especially African-American) kids will ever become ideologically conservative — in fact, even if they have the “hard-working” parents you describe you best believe that they will educate their children about racism in society — and who its perpetrators are.
It was members of the DFL in my little community where I worship that worked and undermined 3 churches to get federal aid to work with at risk and poor immigrants because they were not going to let these small conservative congregations get funds from Bush’s Pragram and make it work.
There was more to it than that.
In High School – I know – back in the dark ages. We were allowed to apply and get to make elective classes for us to take on topics that were tradionally offered in High School. We thought it would be great to have discussion on the Bible and Current events. Our person that agreed to teach our class was more than qualified. We were turned down because of a flimsy ‘church – state’ issue.
That might not happen today because of some Supreme Court decisions, and in fact about 20 years ago Christian groups sat down with the ACLU and hammered out a set of guidelines as to what was and wasn’t protected speech. But that goes back to the “cultural dominance” of Christianity I alluded to earlier — it often demands the right to make everyone else toe the line.



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payshun

posted October 17, 2007 at 12:11 pm


I heard a request about books. I got plenty.
Here are a few by the man that mentored MLK Jr.
Howard Thurman. Most of you don’t know who is or his contribution to the struggle for human rights but he was and is an amazing standard for humanity.
Jesus and the Disinherited. H. Thurman
The Search for Common Ground. H. Thurman
Rich Christians in an age of Hunger- slider
Walking w/ the Poor by Bryant L. Meyers
That’s four to start you off w/. But there is a ton of stuff out there if you want more feel free to ask.
p



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Mick Sheldon

posted October 17, 2007 at 4:09 pm


Thanks P ,
I was interested in something that would explain the social justice movement perspective that came from the civil rights movement .



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Mick Sheldon

posted October 17, 2007 at 4:11 pm


BTW, I’m probably the most ideologically conservative member of my family, which is quite conservative as blacks go — and that should tell you something
That you won’t be inviting me over for Thanksgiving dinner ? ’0)



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Rick Nowlin

posted October 17, 2007 at 8:11 pm


Mick — Oh, I’ve had conservatives over for Thanksgiving dinner and, as I have mentioned, a majority of my friends are that. Just don’t expect us to bow to the shrine of Ronald Reagan.



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payshun

posted October 18, 2007 at 11:38 pm


Well to be fair Mick, the social justice movement predated the civil rights era. I don’t have the time right now to fully go into an indepth history of social justice stuff and it’s impact in shaping the civil rights era and how the civil rights era shaped the social justice movement. Let’s just say they are linked. but for a more modern take and examining it’s history one must look at Ghandi and his non-violent struggle in India. That had a huge impact on King and his mentor Howard Thurman. Read his books and you will understand why.
p



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Rick Nowlin

posted October 19, 2007 at 12:01 am


Well to be fair Mick, the social justice movement predated the civil rights era.
And evangelicals were in the thick of it.



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payshun

posted October 19, 2007 at 8:30 pm


True but so were a few great catholics, some hindu’s, and buddhists and many others.
p



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