God's Politics

God's Politics


Laugh at Ahmadinejad, Don’t Bomb His Country (by Jim Wallis)

posted by God's Politics

Columbia University students got it right. When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s bombastic president, told the packed university auditorium that there were no homosexuals in Iran, the student crowd burst into laughter. Humor and satire have always been good weapons against political stupidity and tyranny. The eager-to-be-provocative Iranian president said a number of stupid things yesterday, as he often does—for example, repeating that the Holocaust should be treated as a theory and not a fact—all of which were worthy of ridicule.


Instead, a growing group of political and media figures, mostly on the Right, are doing their best to use Ahmadinejad’s provocations to help stoke the argument and prepare the context for U.S. military conflict with Iran. Fox News just loves Ahmadinejad.


Iran’s serious human rights violations (including allegations that teenage boys were hanged for being gay), support for terrorism in conflicts around the world, support for insurgents in Iraq who are killing Iraqi civilians and American soldiers, and—most alarmingly—its development of a nuclear capacity that could easily translate into weapons, are serious problems the rest of the world is rightly concerned with.


But there are no military solutions to those problems, and potential military strikes against Iran by the United States or Israel will only make the above problems worse. A dear friend of mine, an influential rabbi, once told me that if there was a way that a surgical air strike against Iran could remove their nuclear threat, he would support it as a just use of force. But because there is no way that such a military strike could accomplish those goals, he is against such an American action. Nothing short of an American invasion and occupation of Iran might assure the destruction of Iran’s nuclear program; and a second occupation in the region is hardly a practical or political—let alone moral—option.


What Fox News doesn’t tell us is that President Ahmadinejad is not the supreme leader of Iran—the religious leader Ayatollah Khamenei is. The role of president in Iran is only one of many figures with political power, and not the most important one in the country’s complicated political and religious system. And Ahmadinejad’s clear immaturity as a leader, combined with his failure to deliver things that he has promised, has placed him in serious political trouble in his own country.


Nothing would serve the political career and purposes of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad better than to be able to provoke a military confrontation with the United States which would, almost certainly, unite all the competing factions in Iran around him in a nation under attack. And that is exactly why this irresponsible and self-aggrandizing politician is being so deliberately provocative. Ahmadinejad and Dick Cheney ultimately want the same thing—another confrontation. What does that tell you?


So don’t give him what he wants by bombing his country. Then take all the problems above very seriously. Enter into real negotiations with Iran, using a variety of carrots and sticks, and especially reach out to the forces of democratic reform in that country (which we would only help crush with a U.S. military confrontation). In the meantime, laugh at Ahmadinejad.



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Steve Cohen

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:06 pm


Thank you for your thoughts. Might I also tag on to your last sentence: “…and pray for him and his country.”
Thanks.



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Kimberly Hampton

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:07 pm


I think too many Americans are caught up in verbose rhetoric; both from inside the country and outside.
I think there is something that is being overlooked in President Ahmadinejad’s speech. In it he says, “Why should the Palestinians pay for something that happened in Europe?” That statement alone shows that he does believe that the Holocaust happened, no matter what words he uses with his own public.
If nothing else, Ahmadinejad’s speech shows just how much we need to be engaged with the world instead of paternalistic towards it.



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neuro_nurse

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:14 pm


My family and I visited Persepolis when we lived in Iran. One of the readings for today was from Ezra, about Darius’ support for the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem.
I was just thinking how much I’d love to go back to Iran for a visit.
Seek peace and pursue it.



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kevin s.

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:24 pm


So laugh in the face of serious threats, rule out a military solution from the get-go (thereby effectively eliminating much of our diplomatic leverage) and use carrots and sticks which will incentivize other leaders to develop nuclear programs of their own.
I have no words. That plan speaks for itself.



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D4P

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:30 pm


So laugh in the face of serious threats, rule out a military solution from the get-go
Sounds Christ-like.



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Another nonymous

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:33 pm


How about this, then? Rule out military action from the get-go and begin dismantling our own nuclear weapons with all due haste, thereby removing the incentive for other countries to develop nuclear programs of their own.



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kevin s.

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:35 pm


“Sounds Christ-like.”
Not at all.



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Cads

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:50 pm


Carrots and sticks? Pleeeez.



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Mark P (the Yank)

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:51 pm


“And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.” -James 3
We ought to be peacemakers. That does mean that using the military to create peace through violent means ought not to be a default option. On the same note, though, if a nation like Iran believes that they are immune from serious “sticks” (aka something beyond the proven-worthless “sanctions”), then a stable peace will never be had.
I note that the French Foreign Minister essentially said that Europe ought to be ready for war with Iran should the path that’s being followed not change, a shocking statement all things considered (source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6997935.stm)



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Mark P (the Yank)

posted September 25, 2007 at 2:52 pm


President Sarkozy of France also stated that there could be no world peace if the international community showed “weakness in the face of the proliferation of nuclear weapons.”
(source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7011938.stm)
Again, I find this very surprising from France.



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Payshun

posted September 25, 2007 at 3:12 pm


Not at all.
So a plan to bomb innocent, men, women and children is Christlike? Just asking.
p



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Mick Sheldon

posted September 25, 2007 at 3:35 pm


My family and I visited Persepolis when we lived in Iran
What was that like ? Did you get to know the people in a way they could talk to you from their perspectives on certain matters ?
My big hope in the Middle East is TV . One of the young men who I know who came back from Iraq told the biggest change in Iraq since Sadam left is that you see all the little homes with those Direct TV antennas on them . I fugure one generatioon of Gilligans Inland Reruns and these folks will see their leaders as a bit too tightly wound . Chill out and want to enjoy life .



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kevin s.

posted September 25, 2007 at 3:54 pm


“Again, I find this very surprising from France.”
Sarkozy is good stuff. Merkel isn’t bad either.
“So a plan to bomb innocent, men, women and children is Christlike? Just asking.”
False choice, my friend.
“Carrots and sticks? Pleeeez.”
Right, and what if the carrot isn’t big enough? Do we make a better offer, continuing to sweeten the deal until we receive compliance? Shall this be our diplomatice pose with every country?



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Another nonymous

posted September 25, 2007 at 4:30 pm


Kevin is right. No, laughing in the face of serious threats is not Christ-like, and no, no carrot is going to be big enough as long as we continue to hold up the even bigger stick of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal. That’s why we need to look for the equivalent of turning the other cheek: a paradigm-busting, gutsy move that redefines the debate. Unilateral nuclear disarmament fits the bill.



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John Rich

posted September 25, 2007 at 4:43 pm


Mr. Wallis shows greatness in three attributes: faith, hope, and charity. It is too bad that what he has faith in, what he hopes for, and the charity he shows will not resolve a real threat to regional and world peace.
He has faith that the mullahs and other leaders of Iran will bargain with us in good faith. More to the point, he hopes this is the case. In both, Mr. Wallis trusts in things not seen but believed in regardless.
Finally, charity. Jesus does, indeed, require that we “love” our enemies, that we pray for them. But Jesus has also commanded us to love our neighbor.
What kind of love would we be showing our neighbors in Israel or other nations in the Middle East who would come under the threat of attack by Iranian nuclear weapons?
I don’t advocate attacking Iran, unless and until we attempt other options — but also don’t give Iran forever to comply.
We must see things clearly. Faith and hope have their place, but not in the affairs of nations. And charity begins, as they say, at home.
Iranians will lie, cheat, and steal to achieve their goal of regional hegemony. And they will be enabled by the Russians, Germans, and others who will place profit ahead of regional and world peace.



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ds0490

posted September 25, 2007 at 4:56 pm


If we are concerned about those countries who have business interests with Iran, maybe we need to remove the log from our own eye.
Are we still permitting Halliburton to operate in Iran, as they were in 2005?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7119752/
Remember when Dick Cheney was courting Iran’s business, back when he was the head of Halliburton?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134836,00.html
And maybe we should look at our retirement funds and withdraw from those funds that have investment holdings in Iran. Of course, that might cost taxpayers some money, but is it really good to have our tax-funded pensions supporting business in Iran?
http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/197148
Perhaps we should stop our own newsspeak on Iran. Maybe when businesses say they are pulling out of Iran, our government should make sure they are doing just that.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6982444/site/newsweek/print/1/displaymode/1098/



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Mark P (the Yank)

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:07 pm


“That’s why we need to look for the equivalent of turning the other cheek: a paradigm-busting, gutsy move that redefines the debate. Unilateral nuclear disarmament fits the bill.”
Forget that. Let’s outlaw weapons in the military! No more fighter jets either! Scrap tanks and explosives too! It will be so gutsy and everyone’s paradigms will be so upended that world peace will spontaneously burst like a river over the Middle East, Ahmadinejad will become a progressive evangelical, Hitler will come back from the dead and apologize to Czechoslovakia, Kim will stop starving his people… it’ll be wonderful!
May I once again point out that slapping a cheek is an insult, not an assault. Turning the other cheek is a response to an insult, not an attack.

John, I think you are wrong on Germany. I don’t imagine they will be Russia’s little brother under Merkel.



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Mick Sheldon

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:13 pm


Thanks John , That was what I believe a policy both political partys will support .
Jesus told us to shake the dust off our feet in certain situations . Lets hope if Iran chooses not to particpate in the world of today , they will allow the rest of us to move on without threatening our lives and way of life .



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Another nonymous

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:13 pm


“May I once again point out that slapping a cheek is an insult, not an assault. Turning the other cheek is a response to an insult, not an attack.”
I’m not aware that anybody has attacked us with nuclear weapons.



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Jorge

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:15 pm


Will you laugh if he nukes israel?
Just wondering.



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DeWayne

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:17 pm


What essentially all of the selectively deaf have consistently missed; in this case even Jim Wallis, is Iran President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad repeatedly stating over and over again, as need to always follow and continually re-investigate not only accepted history, but in search of pertinent truth and data not yet part of historical record. May I expand in saying used by an evil few for godless purpose.
How do intelligent people miss the point made repeatedly in statements of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, asking for more search and investigation (into the Genocide period), how in hell does looking into ‘the historic Genocide Period’ equate to denying that the Genocide ever happened.
Understand that Iran has learned well from the constant lies and propaganda put out by the Bush-Admin and other godless allies who incessantly repeat these same lies over and over as truth. Only the mentally retarded and spiritually delusioned will not take the time, or have honesty of character, to look deeper for truth.
What I believe is actually the problem regarding this misconception, is intellectual dishonesty involved in this selective denial of fact, being the penchant of the fearful that instead go along with the crowd, and may I add down the wide path to destruction.
Having taken the time to validate this same distortion of fact for mistaken sanctity, a case in point is the false belief in propaganda about “Wiping Israel Off the Map.” Exact words within the Iran language not spoken by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Said instead was a quoting of Irans Ayatollah Khomeini who said, (paraphrased)”the Zionist regime of Gods City needs vanish from the pages of time.” As was also mentioned by the Khomeini that the regime’s in Russia and Saddam Hussein of Iraq needed disappear from the pages of time.
America is not suffering from outside actions of terrorists or other Empires today, America is suffering as a result of selling our good character to greed, gluttony, and rejecting the teachings of the Christ they hide falsely behind.



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Another nonymous

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:19 pm


“Will you laugh if he nukes israel?”
Of course not. I honestly think it is less likely to happen if we disarm than if we don’t.



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kevin s.

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:29 pm


“how in hell does looking into ‘the historic Genocide Period’ equate to denying that the Genocide ever happened.”
But he has also denied that the Holocaust ever happened. This is a different quote. What more do we need to do to look into the “historic Genocide period”?



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Payshun

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:48 pm


So Kevin what is the choice you are offering and what role do nuclear weapons play in it?
p



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DeWayne

posted September 25, 2007 at 5:49 pm


What would be found about Iran concerning their nuclear ambition for nuclear power, would be Western nations including the Corp-Gov (aka US-Empire) helping begin this nuclear installation back (1950s-1998) when we had the Shaw and SAVAK Secret Police insuring our Int’l-Corp-Oil-Cartel control of Iran.
Today Iran is a member of the UN-IAEA that until recently had spent many man-hours proving that Iran was in compliance of all paramenters, protocals, and by-laws of this agency. It not being until recently and the US-Corp-Gov bullied (some) UN nations into signing on that the compliant Iran was ‘not in compliance’.
Being a member of this UN-agency, Iran has every right to develop and process uranium into 3.5% grade enriched uranium suitable (only) for nuclear Power Plants, unlike the 90%-grade that the secular Zionist gov of Israel secretly turned into a stockpile’s of Atomic Weapons.
It frustrates me that today the blind lead the blind, with some of the fearful affraid their god is not as powerful as the Islamic. I thank my God daily, that He is not like the god many American Christians follow today, like the one who saw Putins soul and said he could deal with such.



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DeWayne

posted September 25, 2007 at 6:18 pm


Get off the propaganda-tail of Iran nuclear bombing Israel. It amazes me the utter ignorance of so many Christian Americans, those who have no idea of the Jewish population and history (within) the nation of Iran. Knowing nothing of the true or True Torah Jewish that are a remnant in obedience to their God and Torah.
Today regardless of the secular Zionists fearmongering in the Middle East and around the world, to get Jewish people to fearfully move into the secular Zionist State of Israel, Iran still has 25-35,000 ‘religious’ Jewish who refuse to move, having their safety and security guaranteed even under the Ayatollah Khomeini, by the way including 250,000 Christians in Iran.
Read a little, read about (real) Jewish Rabbi’s and leaders from 70AD until 1900s that consistantly said only God can and will re-establish Israel. That warned as is evident today in Israel, secular Zionist’s would only bring suffering to any involved in this secular Zionist Israel.
Read about these secular Zionists involved in False Flag operation’s, like their present Aparthied now in Palestine. The population of Israel in greatest part secular, and secular Christian-Zionists wanting more of the same for the apocalypse that will apparently make themselves rulers over whatever remains.
Many false teachers and prophets today are in the world, if you are a Christian, compare what you hear (and) see, against the word of God for validity. I’ve seen in the signs of the times, and the many who call themselves Christian, who are instead the synagogue of Satan.



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neuro_nurse

posted September 25, 2007 at 6:21 pm


What was [living in Iran] like ? Did you get to know the people in a way they could talk to you from their perspectives on certain matters ? Mick Sheldon
We lived in Iran in 1978. I’ve described some of that experience at length on other God’s Politics threads.
I will say this: living in Iran probably had the most profound effect on my worldview than any other event I can think of.
Americans live a lie. We are fed the lies from the time we are children in school, and we continue to be fed the lies as adults by our media, our government, and each other.
This is the lie: We are good, “they” are bad. Everything bad that happens to us is because of “them.” Everything bad that happens to “them” is because they deserve it. We deserve nothing but good things because we are nothing but good.
Who are “they?” You name it: Russians, Chinese, Cubans, Iranians, Iraqis, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, homosexuals, feminists, liberals, conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, communists, loudmouth dictators that “we” put in power, did I miss anyone? Everyone seems to have their scapegoat, the ‘other,’ “them.”
…anyone but “us.”
As long as you believe this lie, everything is okay. Life makes sense. You can “fit in” with the rest of the people who are content being lied to.
I have experienced culture shock twice in my life – and it’s not what you might expect. I do not experience culture shock when I move to a foreign country. I experience culture shock when I return to this country after having lived elsewhere for a year and see my own culture from a different frame of reference.
My experiences, my worldview, allow me to respond to comments like this:
“Iranians will lie, cheat, and steal to achieve their goal of regional hegemony”
in this way: That is not my experience with Iranians. My experience is that Americans will lie, cheat, and steal to achieve our goal of global hegemony.
You don’t have to like it, and you certainly don’t have to agree with me, but that’s the way I see it, and you’d be hard pressed to try to dissuade me from having that perspective.
Seek peace and pursue it.



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neuro_nurse

posted September 25, 2007 at 6:24 pm


“Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner.”
Blocked again!



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N.M. Rod

posted September 25, 2007 at 7:14 pm


Though loth to grieve
The evil time’s sole patriot,
I cannot leave
My buried thought
For the priest’s cant,
Or statesman’s rant.
If I refuse
My study for their politique,
Which at the best is trick,
The angry muse
Puts confusion in my brain.
But who is he that prates
Of the culture of mankind,
Of better arts and life?
Go, blind worm, go,
Behold the famous States
Harrying Mexico
With rifle and with knife.
Or who, with accent bolder,
Dare praise the freedom-loving mountaineer,
I found by thee, O rushing Contoocook!
And in thy valleys, Agiochook!
The jackals of the negro-holder.
The God who made New Hampshire
Taunted the lofty land
With little men.
Small bat and wren
House in the oak.
If earth fire cleave
The upheaved land, and bury the folk,
The southern crocodile would grieve.
Virtue palters, right is hence,
Freedom praised but hid;
Funeral eloquence
Rattles the coffin-lid.
What boots thy zeal,
O glowing friend,
That would indignant rend
The northland from the south?
Wherefore? To what good end?
Boston Bay and Bunker Hill
Would serve things still:
Things are of the snake.
The horseman serves the horse,
The neat-herd serves the neat,
The merchant serves the purse,
The eater serves his meat;
‘Tis the day of the chattel,
Web to weave, and corn to grind,
Things are in the saddle,
And ride mankind.
There are two laws discrete
Not reconciled,
Law for man, and law for thing;
The last builds town and fleet,
But it runs wild,
And doth the man unking.
‘Tis fit the forest fall,
The steep be graded,
The mountain tunnelled,
The land shaded,
The orchard planted,
The globe tilled,
The prairie planted,
The steamer built.
Live for friendship, live for love,
For truth’s and harmony’s behoof;
The state may follow how it can,
As Olympus follows Jove.
Yet do not I implore
The wrinkled shopman to my sounding woods,
Nor bid the unwilling senator
Ask votes of thrushes in the solitudes.
Every one to his chosen work.
Foolish hands may mix and mar,
Wise and sure the issues are.
Round they roll, till dark is light,
Sex to sex, and even to odd;
The over-God,
Who marries Right to Might,
Who peoples, unpeoples,
He who exterminates
Races by stronger races,
Black by white faces,
Knows to bring honey
Out of the lion,
Grafts gentlest scion
On Pirate and Turk.
The Cossack eats Poland,
Like stolen fruit;
Her last noble is ruined,
Her last poet mute;
Straight into double band
The victors divide,
Half for freedom strike and stand,
The astonished muse finds thousands at her side.



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joaquin

posted September 25, 2007 at 7:16 pm


I can’t believe it. How are we going to do it? didn’t we learn from before?



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Anonymous

posted September 25, 2007 at 7:45 pm


So laugh in the face of serious threats, rule out a military solution from the get-go (thereby effectively eliminating much of our diplomatic leverage) and use carrots and sticks which will incentivize other leaders to develop nuclear programs of their own.
I have no words. That plan speaks for itself.

Yep. Just like the most recent war we got into, and it’s (rotten) fruits therof, speaks for itself.



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Kevin Wayne

posted September 25, 2007 at 7:46 pm


Sorry, I’m the author of the rotten fruits comment.



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Wolverine

posted September 25, 2007 at 7:47 pm


I’ll probably be branded some kind of zionist for saying this (we neocons get it all the time) but I’d be much more likely to just laugh at Ahmedinejad if I could be certain that he and Iran would limit themselves to laughing at Israel.
Wolverine



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Mark P (the Yank)

posted September 25, 2007 at 7:47 pm


“How do intelligent people miss the point made repeatedly in statements of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, asking for more search and investigation (into the Genocide period), how in hell does looking into ‘the historic Genocide Period’ equate to denying that the Genocide ever happened.”
Well, DeWayne, it’s kind of like saying, “We need more search and investigation as to the existence of slavery in America.” When you start asking for more evidence than the massive mountain of empirical and witness evidence supporting the Holocaust, you’ve moved from the intellectual to the idiotic.
Essentially, by denying that the current evidence is sufficient, Ahmadinejad is saying that he will never admit it, no matter the evidence. If what we have doesn’t convince him, nothing will. And that means he’s denying its existence.



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N.M. Rod

posted September 25, 2007 at 8:41 pm


Sometimes coming back to America is a relief (once you are past the disturbing cognitive dissonance that is Homeland Security) because the level of public health and mostly unbribable (at least at the levels we can pay!) officials.
However there is no doubt that we share a myth that is delusional about ourselves, that “thank God we are not sinners like other peoples.” The amount of materialism isn’t seen as a temptation, but a deserved sign of God’s blessing for deeds well done.
Our high-sounding rhetoric is being revealed hypocritical more and more by the facts, now that they have been declassified. We learn our policies were always based more on self-interest of elites and in service of that our government did things secretly that the majority believing in those highly moral illusions find shocking.
The truth of the matter is that when we criticise others around the globe for being evil, the judgment applies to us too, and we are found wanting.
When push comes to shove, we are as fully capable of plumbing moral depths as other nationalities who suffered deprivation and crisis.
In a strange way, our blessing is an inversion of what we’re often told – that unless we do those bad things to those people over there, they will come here and do them to us. What is even more likely is that if we were not doing it to others over there, we would be doing it to ourselves at home, now that we have built a gigantic military-industrial-government complex complete with a standing army and huge numbers of mercenaries upon which our economy now depends along with the destruction of civilian manufacturing.



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DeWayne

posted September 25, 2007 at 10:12 pm


[ Mark P (the yank) ]
Saying “Well, DeWayne, it’s kind of like saying, “We need more search and investigation as to the existence of slavery in America.” When you start asking for more evidence than the massive mountain of empirical and witness evidence supporting the Holocaust, you’ve moved from the intellectual to the idiotic.”
I would say you’ve been caught in your own intellectual deception, lacking though it is. No acamedic who would say searching out history to gain more history is admitting lack of history. Nor would they as you gain say they are the better off.
Only those who find lack of information advantageous for others, would state such a bold belief, that seeking unto knowledge; even beyond accepted understanding, is for any reason a negative ambition.
Perhaps it is not the mountain of accepted history that worries you of those seeking more, but the inaccuracies and misuse in scheme’s you worry being laid bare. There is an old Jewish story of a young Jewish boy who kills both his parents, and when brought before the tribal court, pleads for mercy being now an orphan.



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DeWayne

posted September 25, 2007 at 10:31 pm


Thanks John , That was what I believe a policy both political partys will support .
Jesus told us to shake the dust off our feet in certain situations . Lets hope if Iran chooses not to particpate in the world of today , they will allow the rest of us to move on without threatening our lives and way of life.

This is amazing, with a people who are suppose to have discernment. The UN stating that Iran is within IAEA parameters, protocals, and by-laws (except 2-3 member nations bullied into signing a US charge to the opposite), the President of Iran coming to America saying he wants discussion and dialog, and some Christians believing despite evidence completely surrounding them, that Iran is the “Rogue Nation” of today.
You can tell the signs of the weather, but you have no evidence in recognizing the signs of the times. Literally the greatest part of the world now call America the “Rogue Nation”, and you wag you finger at Iran, the nation about which you are in serious need of better information (and) discernment.



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Donny

posted September 25, 2007 at 10:32 pm


How do you laugh in Arabic? Oh yeah, and since I will never become a Muslim, how do you laugh without a head?



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N.M. Rod

posted September 25, 2007 at 10:48 pm


Donny, are you saying you don’t have a head (for humor)?!
Sort of like French Premier Aristide Briand who opined, “The man who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at 40 he has no head.”
In any case, Donny, here’s advice from a defender of another ill-fated Empire on how to keep your head while lopping off those of the uncivilized and ungrateful heathen:
“If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
– You’ll be a man, my son!”
- Rudyard Kipling



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N.M Rod

posted September 25, 2007 at 10:52 pm


..Oops, I meant to say, “yanking off the heads of the uncivilized and ungrateful heathen” not “lopping” …



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DeWayne

posted September 25, 2007 at 11:00 pm


President Sarkozy of France also stated that there could be no world peace if the international community showed “weakness in the face of the proliferation of nuclear weapons.”
Name one nation in the Middle East besides Pakistan that has nuclear industry capable of having nuclear weapons, also as a non-member not commited to UN Non-Proliferation, I will name you the Zionist State of Israel.
Name me a nation in the Middle East that is a member and according the the UN IAEA is in compliance with their parameters, protocals and by-laws, I will name you (only) Iran.
So then it would appear the only Middle East nation secretly holding nuclear weapons is the Zionist State of Israel, being neither a member of the UN and in IAEA compliance, nor seeking such commitment. Pakistan we do not worry about, as long as they only give nuclear abilities to North Korea.



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Anonymous

posted September 25, 2007 at 11:01 pm


“Today regardless of the secular Zionists fearmongering in the Middle East and around the world, to get Jewish people to fearfully move into the secular Zionist State of Israel, Iran still has 25-35,000 ‘religious’ Jewish who refuse to move, having their safety and security guaranteed even under the Ayatollah Khomeini, by the way including 250,000 Christians in Iran.”
“Perhaps it is not the mountain of accepted history that worries you of those seeking more, but the inaccuracies and misuse in scheme’s you worry being laid bare. There is an old Jewish story of a young Jewish boy who kills both his parents, and when brought before the tribal court, pleads for mercy being now an orphan.”
Posted by: DeWayne | September 25, 2007 10:12 PM
What “schemes” related to the Holocaust do you mean DeWayne? Why isn’t anyone calling out your disturbing animus against Jews? Is it because you are sufficiently dovish towards Iran and hostile towards Israel?
Your description of Iran’s theocracy’s protection of “true” Jews who have rejected the “evils” of Zionism fits the bill of anti-Semitism and should be called out for the disgusting hate-speech that it is.



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Susannah

posted September 25, 2007 at 11:05 pm


Reposting my comment from the Daily Digest of news…
Re: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
Snippets of this were on the evening news here in Australia, and I have to say that as much as I believe Ahmadinejad to be a dangerous person, what shocked me was how he was recieved.

Why would someone invite him to talk and then go immediately into personal attacks?

It sickened me to see this happen. There was an opportunity to learn more about Ahmadinejad’s views and beliefs which would give valuable insight into this dictator. The man was treated abhorantly, and the incident has likely stoked the fire of anti-Imperial-Americianism rather than show Ahmadinejad basic human respect and rationality. This was not America at its best.

The protests were so personal and hateful that I think they worked against the cause.

Why did I see the same ‘rabid dog’ looks on the faces of the crowd as what I see on those who protest against America and Pres. Bush? Instead of highlighting the autrocities and dangerous ways of what Ahmadinejad stands for… it seemed to have degraded into personal attacks. I expected to see someone burning an effigy or Iranian flag.
Call this man on his acts – do not personally attack his intelligence, his courage, and his adherance to his faith.
I feel this incident showed the world that America can be as cruel and petty as those it points the finger at.
Sorry for the rant, but this touched me deeply.



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N.M. Rod

posted September 25, 2007 at 11:09 pm


Mordecai Vanunu, an Israeli technician, was imprisoned for revealing information about Israel’s nuclear weapons program.
The BBC reported that the Federation of American Scientists estimated from
satellite photos and US intelligence reports that Israel possessed no more than 200 nuclear weapons.
Israel has not allowed inspection of its Dimona nuclear facility and is among the few nations that have refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, according to the BBC.



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DeWayne

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:04 am


“how in hell does looking into ‘the historic Genocide Period’ equate to denying that the Genocide ever happened.” But he has also denied that the Holocaust ever happened. This is a different quote. What more do we need to do to look into the “historic Genocide period”?
What you may not have noticed, and about what Irans President has become frustratingly aware, is that many get only a small censored part of the history (past and present), and as result are easily being led around with lies and/or twisted half-truth.
Granted that Iran and President has taken to proding the weak minded with a sharp stick, but this you will have to admit keeps them discussing history until some truth leaks out normally censored by Western Media and our Corp-Gov.
You of course know how many peoples and their numbers of other ethnic or other persuasion met Genocide death during the Hitler era. You no doubt know that the Genocide figures in all instances are accurate and faithful along with all other related history today believed. Yet do you know there appear to have been no Zionist’s involved, yet they complain most about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad apparent insatiable appetite for history.
You think you know is why the President of Iran is making this fuss, however i gain say you do not know. If what I am suggesting is true, it would appear advantages for you to want to know more, unless this frightens you, as it does some.
Some today apparently believe God is being replaced, worrying about the weaknesses of their God, as a Christian I find this interesting, even though it is becoming an historical fact.



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Anonymous

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:21 am


Wolverine
I’ll probably be branded some kind of zionist for saying this (we neocons get it all the time) but I’d be much more likely to just laugh at Ahmedinejad if I could be certain that he and Iran would limit themselves to laughing at Israel.

Just recently in some Western Media report, I saw the statement that Iran wants “Israel and America Destroyed”
As stated earlier, about “Wiping Israel Off the Map.” President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad words within the Iran language said instead being actually a quote from the Ayatollah Khomeini who said, (paraphrased)”the Zionist regime of Gods City needs vanish from the pages of time.”
You do not wipe a regime off any map by killing an entire population, you work at spreading the truth about a regime, and then see the regime disappear off the pages of time (as the Khomeini also likened for the regimes of Communist China, and Saddam Hussein). By the way, vote anything but DEM or GOP in the next election.



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rtpricetag

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:23 am


CORRECTION “Communist Russia”



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Mark P (the Yank)

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:35 am


DeWayne:
“Perhaps it is not the mountain of accepted history that worries you of those seeking more, but the inaccuracies and misuse in scheme’s you worry being laid bare.”
-Strange. I have very little worry that any “schemes” “being laid bare” would somehow implicate the Jews in their own genocide and relieve the burden of guilt on the perpetrators’ heads. That old school — most prominent, actually in the Armenian genocide “debate” — has been the classic defense of murderers everywhere.
-It is not the desire for further research that bothers me… it’s the idea that no amount of historical evidence is sufficient to make a reasonable judgment. After all, we’re not talking about who shot John F Kennedy.
-This does not imply that one must make a judgment and then ignore the matter. One need not follow up a conclusion with closing one’s mind entirely. But if we’re to operate a society, you cannot wait for the clouds to part and the voice of God Himself to declare the truth in all matters.
-There is a point when a reasonable person should be expected to come to some sort of conclusion — this is why we have a “reasonable doubt” standard in criminal cases and, generally speaking, a “preponderance of evidence” standard in civil cases. The point of a substantial preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt was reached SIXTY YEARS AGO and no serious findings since have changed the fundamental conclusion.
-The conclusion one reaches with individuals such as yourself and Ahmadinejad who demand “more evidence” in the face of the one of the most well-documented events in history is that some motive or agenda aside from the truth and historical reality actuates your hesitation. I would greatly appreciate you explaining your particular motive or agenda to us, because, to be honest and forthright with you, your attitude in the matter does seem markedly anti-Semitic. I have not blatantly called you an anti-Semite because such a conclusion is distasteful. I would like to think that something else would suffice to explain your mystifying approach.



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Anonymous

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:44 am


Last note to DeWayne:
-Can we stop assuming that anyone else not to excited about Iran’s nuclear options is being bullied by the US? France seems ANYTHING but bullied… Sarkozy and foreign minister seemed anything but “forced” in their fear of Iran. Chancellor Kremer for Germany was certainly less aggressive in her warnings regarding Iran, so perhaps she was coaxed somewhat, but, again, France does not seem like they are forced against their will to express fears of Iran.
Susannah:
“Why would someone invite him to talk and then go immediately into personal attacks?”
-As I saw it, the President of Columbia merely introduced the man’s credits. When you introduce a speaker, you talk about their marquee achievements and notable acts. It’s not Columbia’s fault that Ahmadinejad’s accomplishments happen to be those of a petty and cruel dictator. If you don’t want to be called a murderer, don’t commit murder.



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rtpricetag

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:49 am


dear anonymoussaying…Your description of Iran’s theocracy’s protection of “true” Jews who have rejected the “evils” of Zionism fits the bill of anti-Semitism and should be called out for the disgusting hate-speech that it is.
Thank you ‘anonymous’ for an excellent opportunity to speak up for the chosen of God, the ‘Jewish’ chosen of (history) we Christians all remember as of God who we see appearing like Moses. Thank you for the opportunity to most seriously ask Christians that they discover the difference between true Jewish people living according to their Torah and obedient to their G_d, and the secular Zionist that find nothing wrong with Aparthied ambition. It is not (man) that will gather the scattered from the nations into a (new) secular Zionist State of Israel, rather it is as the Bible and God declares, it being God that will gather the scattered back into Israel in the time God has decreed.
Do not use your false antisemitism threats against me, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Of the Jewish called Israel I find deep and everlasting love.



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rtpricetag

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:18 am


[ MarkP ]DeWayne: “Perhaps it is not the mountain of accepted history that worries you of those seeking more, but the inaccuracies and misuse in scheme’s you worry being laid bare.”
-Strange. I have very little worry that any “schemes” “being laid bare” would somehow implicate the Jews in their own genocide and relieve the burden of guilt on the perpetrators’ heads. That old school — most prominent, actually in the Armenian genocide “debate” — has been the classic defense of murderers everywhere.

Please do not confuse me talking about Jewish people true to their Torah and obedient to their G_d, when if you will re-read anything I’ve posted, I have done as former Pres-Carter referring instead to the Zionist. The Aparthied being carried out by the Zionist-gov of Israel, is not being condoned by the Jewish who have lived in this region well before the Zionist State, these same true to the teachings of their Torah and God.
If you are really a Christian seeking a beginning of truth in these matters, try a websearch of the USS Liberty, read it completely and listen to audio reports of this ships survivors, then tell me if you believe I am teaching that the Genocide did not happen. Genocide can be a slow process, like a frog first put into a pan of cool water.



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canucklehead

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:27 am


>>>Iranians will lie, cheat, and steal to achieve their goal of regional hegemony. And they will be enabled by the Russians, Germans, and others who will place profit ahead of regional and world peace.
Posted by: John Rich | September 25, 2007 4:43 PM
What a mouthful for an American (I assume) given the current mess in Iraq.



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Cads

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:32 am


It’s off to the medicine cabinet for a couple of extra strength Tylenols after reading the numerous DeWayne posts. Goodnight everyone.
And just one question for neuro nurse. You state:
I do not experience culture shock when I move to a foreign country. I experience culture shock when I return to this country after having lived elsewhere for a year and see my own culture from a different frame of reference.
My question to you is: What keeps you coming back?



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DeWayne

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:40 am


[ MarkP ] The conclusion one reaches with individuals such as yourself and Ahmadinejad who demand “more evidence” in the face of the one of the most well-documented events in history is that some motive or agenda aside from the truth and historical reality actuates your hesitation. I would greatly appreciate you explaining your particular motive or agenda to us, because, to be honest and forthright with you, your attitude in the matter does seem markedly anti-Semitic. I have not blatantly called you an anti-Semite because such a conclusion is distasteful. I would like to think that something else would suffice to explain your mystifying approach.
Please do not give me to wonder if you believe also a search of history is license for jailing or imprisonment. If you are as advanced in knowledge regarding the Genocide as you wish, I am glad for you and respect your wish. However it is injury to hear someone teaching that any other or different desire for increased knowledge in history, with threat otherwise of being an antisemite, must follow completely this unusual teaching to stop learning.
Rethink this thought, remember that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, Jesus taught not to stop learning using proper discernment, and to beware of a false teacher.



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N.M. Rod

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:42 am


The oddness of the introduction was so that Columbia could mute criticism of treason for having invited him to speak, by attacking him and his country as an enemy.
No one wants to end up like Ward Churchill.
And I can just imagine what National Review, Rush Limbaugh and others would have to say.
Alumni funding could be at stake too.
We are definitely a minute from open war.



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DeWayne

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:55 am


Statement: My question to you is: What keeps you coming back?
At 71 soon 72 years of age in Nov, and considering I have not traveled within many different nations meeting many different people, to be honest in these times and troubles, my answer to that question would be that my children and grandchildren live here! I once in complete frustration bought a little plaque, it’s message was “the more people (in America) I meet, the more I like my dog.”



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BeliefnetPat

posted September 26, 2007 at 2:31 am


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kevin s.

posted September 26, 2007 at 3:09 am


This conversation has gone bananas. I’ll attempt to firk out the relevant bits.
“This was not America at its best.”
Correct. America at its best would never give a fellow like Ahmadinejad a forum to speak.
“The protests were so personal and hateful that I think they worked against the cause.”
I disagree. I actually think the protests helped to effectively make the case that Ahmadinejad should never have been invited, and forced Columbia’s president to make his curious remarks. If they hadn’t been effective, the title of this post would have been “What We Can Learn From Ahmadinejad”, and it would have been written by Brian McLaren.
I did not at all expect that the protests would be successful, and I give props to the organizations who protested. It is proof that our Ivy League institutions still actually harbor some students who are intelligent enough to think for themselves.
“Why did I see the same ‘rabid dog’ looks on the faces of the crowd as what I see on those who protest against America and Pres. Bush?”
Because some people lack perspective.
“Instead of highlighting the autrocities and dangerous ways of what Ahmadinejad stands for… it seemed to have degraded into personal attacks. I expected to see someone burning an effigy or Iranian flag.”
But they didn’t. From what I hear, the protests consisted of (among other things) creating posters of the (non-existent) homosexuals who were lashed for their crimes, and of the rape victims who had been stoned to death. I mean, it was awfully impolite of them to bring it up, Ahmadinejad being an honored guest of our nation and all.
“Call this man on his acts – do not personally attack his intelligence, his courage, and his adherance to his faith.”
I would never criticize Ahmadinejad’s adherence to his faith (nor would I dispute it), and he seems to be intelligent in a crazy way. But the man has no courage, and I will not be convinced otherwise.
“I feel this incident showed the world that America can be as cruel and petty as those it points the finger at.”
You mean the citizens of NYC stoned rape victims and threatened to kill Jews? Shame on them, and shame on the media for not covering their horrendous acts.
“Sorry for the rant, but this touched me deeply.”
Sorry for the cynical retort, but this touched me deeply as well.



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TheOtherJames

posted September 26, 2007 at 6:56 am


“Correct. America at its best would never give a fellow like Ahmadinejad a forum to speak.”
So much for the first amendment. Your comment is almost tempting if we could do the same to you.
“Iranians will lie, cheat, and steal to achieve their goal of regional hegemony. And they will be enabled by the Russians, Germans, and others who will place profit ahead of regional and world peace.”
Sounds like they should be working for the Bush Admininstration. Have them send their resume to Kevin S.



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Moderatelad

posted September 26, 2007 at 8:11 am


Fox News just loves Ahmadinejad.
Not anymore than CNN. I surfed back and forth that evening and found coverage about the same. I will note that FOX had both Dem and Rep contributors to FOX commenting on the topic. Several times they were more on the same page than not. FOX – We Report, You Decide.
Much of the discussion was about – yes CU had the right to ask him to address the public, but should they have given him the opprotunity. Then again they had video of one of the Adm saying that they would have allowed Hitler to speak in 1939. (we also know how CU handles conservatives when they come to speak there…)
I really wonder what programs Wallis has ever watched on FOX and I believe that it would be a great exchange between Wallis and Bill O. (wonder if that one would ever happen?) I do enjoy watching Anderson Cooper on CNN – one of the few on the channel.
Have a great day -
.



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N.M. Rod

posted September 26, 2007 at 10:39 am


Bill O’Reilly would tell him to shut up, turn off his microphone and then give a soliloquy on how he was un-American.



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Moderatelad

posted September 26, 2007 at 10:44 am


Posted by: N.M. Rod | September 26, 2007 10:39 AM
Hardly -
He has interviewed Rosie O, Shaprton, just to name a few and was very respectful and they said they would be willing to come on his show again.
He and Geraldo had a very heated discussion and are still friends and talking.
Have a great day -
.



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jonabark

posted September 26, 2007 at 11:33 am


Ahmadidinejad Is the Iranian version of George Bush, with far less power or inclination to cause damage and violence. It is not Iran but the US with anactual modern history of imperialism, and the export of violence, and the use of and threat of nuclear weapons. The Iranians deserve better. We Americans deserve better. The sad fact is that there is nothing which Ahmadidinejad was accused of by Bollinger that doesn’t apply to the Bush administration, often with more devastating and widespread cosequences. Unfortunately the Democratic leadership still embraces the role of US imperial domination of the globe via the largest army in the world.Look at or movies. Our culture is saturated with pornography and viloence. We need big changes. We need to forsake apoctlypticism and embrace a vision of peace and justice for all.
The people of Myanmar, led by buddhist monks, are standing up for better. Let’s pray that this non-violent revolt succeeds.



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N.M. Rod

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:03 pm


All these TV and radio talking and shouting attack dogs generate more heat than light. Their purpose is not to discuss, find compromise and work together among human beings, but to generate controversy through conflict and increase ratings. Personally, their egos are enormous and they lambaste each other and are jealous of each others’ ratings. It’s a form of entertainment, is highly partisan and is known to get viewers’ blood pressure rising and get them excited. I’ve watched people watching them and you should hear the un-Christian things that start spewing out of those viewers’ mouths!
I’m really glad to hear that “Rosie” and “Al” would welcome going back on O’Reilly – they are totally media creatures who play up to and crave attention by whatever means, as if they really were important.
BTW, I do not have broadcast or cable TV and have not since 1989 or so. Spending time in front of manipulative advertisers delivering over my mind to them to be indoctrinated into a certain consumerist anxiety-driven materialist mindset is not in the interest of the reality-based existence I am seeking to lead.
This doesn’t mean, though, that I don’t choose to look at films or videos.
Someone once expressed shock, “But then, if you don’t watch TV, how do you know what your neighbors are thinking?”
That question really worries me, since TV is a one-way communications medium.



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neuro_nurse

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:22 pm


“What keeps you coming back?” Cads
It’s often hard to tell the inferences intended by a text-only post, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not intend to imply that as someone who can criticize my own country I do not love it, and should therefore “love it or leave it” and answer you directly.
I lived in Iran for just over a year – December of 1977 to January of 1979. I had my 16th birthday in 1978. Moving back to the U.S. was not my decision – in fact, I was very opposed to it, but my parents didn’t put it to a vote.
I volunteered in Ethiopia from October 2001 to November 2002. There are essentially two reasons I returned to the U.S.: First, my income for that year was zero (which turned out to work to my benefit for the second reason). The second reason was to continue my education and pursue a master’s in public health so I can return to Africa to work to improve the health status, and therefore, the productiveness and quality of life of Africans. (the reason having an income of zero worked in my favor was that I was then eligible for a couple of grants to pay for school).
Thanks for asking.
Seek peace and pursue it.



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neuro_nurse

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:31 pm


N.M. Rod,
I’m with you on TV. We have one at my wife’s insistence, but no cable. I begrudgingly removed the rabbit ears from my stereo and put them on the TV so my wife could watch “K-ville,” otherwise we just use it to watch movies.
For the most part, the only time I see TV is in patient rooms, and then I am appalled by what people call entertainment.
BTW, I appreciated your September 25, 2007 8:41 PM post. You articulately expressed what I had attempted in much more simplistic terms in an earlier post.



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Eric

posted September 26, 2007 at 12:38 pm


I actually agree with Wallis this time. A-Jad has been able to convince Westerners that he’s the supreme power over in Iran, when that is not the case. There are people who oppose him and many of his domestic policies as well has his quest for nukes and what it might do to the economy (if more sanctions are placed on Iran).
Attacking Iran with the military is not the solution here. The real problem is countries like Russia and China that thwart attempts to peacefully deal with the problem a nuclear Iran poses.



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canucklehead

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:01 pm


>>>For the most part, the only time I see TV is in patient rooms, and then I am appalled by what
people call entertainment.
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 26, 2007 12:31 PM
Neuro: b/c you have an inquiring mind and inquiring minds want to know, according to Oprah yesterday, apparently some people in America who are over 60 are still having sex.
I hope you can use that in your master’s thesis somehow.
Yours for cutting-edge enterournalism,
c’head



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canucklehead

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:07 pm


acamedic
Posted by: DeWayne | September 25, 2007 10:12 PM
enterournalism
Posted by: canucklehead | September 26, 2007 1:01 PM
Me ‘n DeWayne studied etymology together.



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Cads

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:45 pm


neuro nurse,
Your “benefit of the doubt” was right on, as I’m not one of those “love it or leave it” guys. It just seems that you find so much wrong with this country that it pains you to live here. Reading your posts has made me realize that you’re a very good and kind person intent on helping the poor and less fortunate. May you one day use your skills to help those so in need in Africa.



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Anonymous

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:49 pm


Mark P wrote:
President Sarkozy of France also stated that there could be no world peace if the international community showed “weakness in the face of the proliferation of nuclear weapons.”
(source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7011938.stm)
Again, I find this very surprising from France.
You shouldn’t. Sarkozy is just a more sophisticated, Western version of Ahmadinejad – an autocratic politician who creates controversy and enmity to further his own political causes.



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kevin s.

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:52 pm


“So much for the first amendment. ”
I was unaware that the first amendment applied to leaders of other countries. Further, I was unaware that the first amendment required every viewpoint to be given a forum at an Ivy League institution.
“Ahmadidinejad Is the Iranian version of George Bush, with far less power or inclination to cause damage and violence.”
Bush has in inclination to cause damage. That is a rational statement.
“It is not Iran but the US with anactual modern history of imperialism, and the export of violence, and the use of and threat of nuclear weapons.”
Iran is indisputably exporting violence, and their development of a nuclear program (accompanied by the threat of extinguishing Israel) constitutes a very real threat in my book.
“The Iranians deserve better.”
“The sad fact is that there is nothing which Ahmadidinejad was accused of by Bollinger that doesn’t apply to the Bush administration, often with more devastating and widespread cosequences.”
Ridiculous. Iran is actively fomenting war in Iraq, while we are working to assuage it. Regardless of whether you consider our Iraq policy to be flawed, it is false to assert that we are intentionally making the situation worse. I can’t believe people believe in this country would make this comparison.
“Unfortunately the Democratic leadership still embraces the role of US imperial domination of the globe via the largest army in the world.”
If our goal is imperial domination of the globe, we are doing a remarkably poor job of it. We invaded Iraq, and then we let them elect their own leaders. That’s a stupid way to be imperialist.
“Look at or movies. Our culture is saturated with pornography and viloence.”
Fair enough, but this is hardly Bush’s fault.



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Hali

posted September 26, 2007 at 1:58 pm


Donny asked,
“How do you laugh in Arabic?”
One hot day, Nasruddin was taking it easy in the shade of a walnut tree. After a time, he started eying speculatively, the huge pumpkins growing on vines and the small walnuts growing on a majestic tree.
- Sometimes I just can’t understand the ways of God! he mused. Just fancy letting tiny walnuts grow on so majestic a tree and huge pumpkins on the delicate vines!
Just then a walnut snapped off and fell smack on Mullah Nasruddin’s bald head. He got up at once and lifting up his hands and face to heavens in supplication, said:
- Oh, my God! Forgive my questioning your ways! You are all-wise. Where would I have been now, if pumpkins grew on trees!



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CRP

posted September 26, 2007 at 2:08 pm


For the record:
An invasion of Iran will fail as dismally as the invasion of Iraq.
Wonder if anyone will listen this time.
One does NOT invade and occupy a sovereign country. One can, however, strategically use the military as we did successfully with Libya, Serbia, and other threats.
I hope Sarkozy will be able to get UN peacekeepers on board this one, but I doubt it. Heck, now that there’s a French conservative head of state, maybe he will also want to join in the fun. Perhaps he and Bush can even attend church together and share an ecumenical war prayer.
Any nationalists out there getting feeling bored and looking forward to the next war? If so, stay away from my kids! I’ll be watching…



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Anonymous

posted September 26, 2007 at 2:38 pm


neuro_nurse wrote:
“This is the lie: We are good, “they” are bad. Everything bad that happens to us is because of “them.” Everything bad that happens to “them” is because they deserve it. We deserve nothing but good things because we are nothing but good.
Who are “they?” You name it: Russians, Chinese, Cubans, Iranians, Iraqis, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, homosexuals, feminists, liberals, conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, communists, loudmouth dictators that “we” put in power, did I miss anyone? Everyone seems to have their scapegoat, the ‘other,’ “them.”
…anyone but “us.”
As long as you believe this lie, everything is okay. Life makes sense. You can “fit in” with the rest of the people who are content being lied to.
I have experienced culture shock twice in my life – and it’s not what you might expect. I do not experience culture shock when I move to a foreign country. I experience culture shock when I return to this country after having lived elsewhere for a year and see my own culture from a different frame of reference.”
I think this is not an uncommon experience for “Third Culture Kids.” I was pretty shocked at how much information simply is left out of our vaunted “free press.” At least in the KSA, you knew when something was being censored because it was blacked out with a big Magic Marker line (or scribble, if it was an “indecent” picture). Westerners live under the illusion that we know everything about the rest of the world, when in reality, if we don’t do a lot of digging, we just know what we’re being spoon-fed. (I say “Westerners” because the Europeans are nearly as bad.) It really is silly to imagine that human beings anywhere in the world are fundamentally different (better or worse) from the rest. We all have our cultural quirks and challenges, and we could all stand to improve a great deal – but humanity is universal.



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Hali

posted September 26, 2007 at 2:41 pm


kevin s. wrote
“Ridiculous. Iran is actively fomenting war in Iraq, while we are working to assuage it.”
I would like to see some evidence of that other than the assertions of the Bush administration.
Fool me once, shame on… wait, I wasn’t fooled the first time, either.
Shalom!



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Pam

posted September 26, 2007 at 3:03 pm


Thank you, Hali, for posting a version of one of my favorite Nasruddin stories (of which there are many)! Wisdom, humor, prayer – all needed by all of us, and all found in this delightful Muslim tale…
Peace.



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N.M. Rod

posted September 26, 2007 at 3:21 pm


Iraq does not have a sovereign government nor does it provide any services normally associated with a functioning government.
Its laws do not practically apply to anyone, and neither in theory nor practice to any foreigners there, including ourselves or our private contractors.
The best reporters and analysts whatever their personal political biases have shown that Iran is not interested in fomenting instability in Iraq because it is against its own interests. Moreover, the government that has been set up by us, the occupation force, is already well-disposed towards Iran and shares their same Shiite faith.
Let’s not forget, as seems to be the case once again, that this is still all about the strategic importance of oil. Iraq and Iran have between them the second largest reserves in the Middle East.
While Iraq thus far has not been the success in securing control of the oil by us that it was planned to be, there’s no doubt we thirst for that of Iran, too. Whenever we gaze there, our mouths just can’t help but water, like a cat’s trembling when it looks out the window and sees a distant bird. It’s still oil which we desperately need regardless of the present political control there and that interest alone guarantees that anything could happen or provocations be made to happen.
If something were to occur that would legitimately make our people more bellicose, leading to opening up the draft again, which could make war physically possible, I cannot see that that our politicians or their influential elites would shrink from fulfilling such hopes.
Ultimately, our way of life is at stake – our material way of life based on its high consumption of oil. Retooling our practices is not something that will occur without disturbance, and conquest for resources is probably more psychologically palatable when push comes to shove.



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laughitup

posted September 26, 2007 at 3:46 pm


kevin s. said: “So laugh in the face of serious threats…”
this statement demonstrates either poor reading comprehension skills or a general disinterest in hearing any opinions other than your own.



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Joe-Allen

posted September 26, 2007 at 3:50 pm


I find it interesting that in the opening paragraph of this blog entry, it is stated: “Columbia University students got it right. When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s bombastic president, told the packed university auditorium that there were no homosexuals in Iran, the student crowd burst into laughter.”
He said that because when they discover that anyone is gay in his country, they hang them in public. There are people in the USA who are just a homophobic as he is because they think that all gays, even the ones whom they think are homosexual, should be executed.
I believe that the right to free speech as guaranteed by the US Constitution should be limited to American Citizens and those in the country legally.
As far as we Americans are concerned, Bush’s staff does not want him to know that people disagree with him. One of the US establishments where Americans don’t actually have complete freedom of speech is the US Military, especially when a Republican is in the White House. But, when Clinton was President, it seemed the US Military was definitely critical of him.
Speaking of gays . . . , the US Military like to think that there are no homosexuals in their outfits, too. In fact, the only US/Federal organization where it is still illegal to be openly gay is the Military.



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jerry

posted September 26, 2007 at 3:55 pm


dewayne says he likes his dog more than the people he meets in america. good luck in your old age dude.
and neuro nurse doesn’t like returning to america from over seas. what a neat thing to say. i hope you are passing this message on to your family.
maybe jim wallis should stop watching fox news. attacking them shows no class. and i hope his love for the mulas and ayatollahs will in fact produce world peace. aren’t the religious leaders of iraq and iran the ones egging on/supporting the terrorists? and supporting leaders like ahmadinjahd.
a minute from war – i don’t think so. maybe another terrorist bombing, yes. a bombing by islamist terrorists against innocent people all over the world.
what will all you lovely lefties say about the world wide terrorist bombings and when we here in the u s are hit again?



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TheOtherJames

posted September 26, 2007 at 4:15 pm


this statement demonstrates either poor reading comprehension skills or a general disinterest in hearing any opinions other than your own.Posted by: laughitup |
Both.
“I was unaware that the first amendment applied to leaders of other countries. Further, I was unaware that the first amendment required every viewpoint to be given a forum at an Ivy League institution.”
1. The First Amendment applies to all persons on US soil. Are you trying to imply that the President of Iran is not a person/
2. The First Amendment does not require every viewpoint to be given a forum at an Ivy League School. Nobody said that it did. What are you saying? You make no sense.



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Anonymous

posted September 26, 2007 at 4:33 pm


jerry: “and neuro nurse doesn’t like returning to america from over seas. what a neat thing to say. i hope you are passing this message on to your family.”
neuro_nurse gave a moving response to Cads’ question re: why does he keep coming back if he experiences culture shock every time he returns.
jerry, the contrast between neuro_nurse’s honesty and desire to do good, on the one hand, and, on the other, your hateful comment is profound.



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carl copas

posted September 26, 2007 at 4:34 pm


the last comment was from me.



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Mick Sheldon

posted September 26, 2007 at 4:37 pm


But, when Clinton was President, it seemed the US Military was definitely critical of him.
That is not true . I know some people in the military were actually told to keep their mouths closed during some of the scandals . Clinton had a reputation because of quotes that were constantly made available by the right showing his distrust and dislike of the military .
Columbia stopped the leader of the Minute Men from speaking their , an organization dedicated to stopping illegal immigrints . Free speech obviously was not the whole issue here , but I am glad hard questions were asked .
I noticed the BBC made sure that the kids comments were focused on , and not the nut President of Iran . All the interest groups got their propaganda machines lubed and loaded on this one . One thing , it is obvious Iran has a bigger nut then even Bush , and I just wish liberals could be concerned about for a day at least .



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Mick Sheldon

posted September 26, 2007 at 4:44 pm


the US Military like to think that there are no homosexuals in their outfits, too
big difference , the military sees openly gay as a deterent to close nit fighting units . Not that there are not gays . There may be a difference with your belief with that and the military , and with our changing culture your view may be realized one day , but this Iranian President has a problem with reality . If you can’t see that , you can’t see the issue .



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neuro_nurse

posted September 26, 2007 at 5:10 pm


“…apparently some people in America who are over 60 are still having sex.”
I sure hope so! I’m 45 – 60 isn’t that far off.
“I hope you can use that in your master’s thesis somehow.”
Fortunately, my master’s program does not require me to write a thesis – neither was I required to take the GRE to be admitted. I am required to have 200 hours of working in a developing country, and I just found out yesterday that since I started my graduate coursework before I went to Ethiopia (actually, before I had an undergraduate degree), I’ll be able to use that as my practicum. 12 more credits after this semester and I’m done.
“It just seems that you find so much wrong with this country that it pains you to live here.” Cads
Thanks. I think there are plenty of people who find a lot wrong with this country – conservatives and liberals alike. Yes, sometimes it does pain me to live here. After spending over 2 years in Africa (total) I find the waste, consumerism, ‘conspicuous consumption,’ greed, gluttony in this country extremely distressing. (Newsflash! They don’t “hate us for our freedom.”) This is not a Christian nation – we are a nation of idolaters – our god is money.
By saying that the belief that “we are good, ‘they’ are bad” is a lie, I am not saying that we are bad and they are good. Jesus certainly was not calling himself bad when he said “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone” Mark 10:18.
jerry, the things I’ve written above are based on the values I plan to teach my children.



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neuro_nurse

posted September 26, 2007 at 5:14 pm


Cads & Carl – thank you for your very kind comments.



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kevin s.

posted September 26, 2007 at 5:37 pm


“this statement demonstrates either poor reading comprehension skills or a general disinterest in hearing any opinions other than your own.”
Laughing in the face of someone who claims that homosexuals do not exist (while his government actively seeks to eliminate them from existence) isn’t funny to me. It might evoke laughter, on account of its absurdity, but it is not funny.
In terms of reading comprehension, Wallis’ point was clear. We should dismiss Ahmadinejad as a military threat. If that was not his point, then taking the military option off the table is even more absurd. Which is it?
“1. The First Amendment applies to all persons on US soil. Are you trying to imply that the President of Iran is not a person”
I’m trying to imply that we shouldn’t have invited him to our country to give a speech in the first place, which is what I said originally. You responded to my statement with an appeal to the first amendment.
What is your take on this? Do you think he should have been given the chance to speak at Columbia? Why?
“The First Amendment does not require every viewpoint to be given a forum at an Ivy League School. Nobody said that it did.”
I made the statement that America, at its best, would not provide a forum for a person like Ahmadinejad. You said “so much for the first amendment”. Why did you say that, if not to suggest that we are required to provide such a forum on account of the first amendment?
Does the first amendment require us to provide a forum for world leaders or no? If not, then explain what you meant by your remark.



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Don

posted September 26, 2007 at 5:38 pm


“maybe jim wallis should stop watching fox news. attacking them shows no class.”
I’m sure Rev. Wallis is paying attention to a lot more than Faux News.
And maybe a few of the posters on this blog ought to follow his example and begin reading and/or watching from other sources besides Faux. Or at least begin exhibiting some of their critical thinking skills.
Too many things posted here read like Faux News talking points.
Peace!



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Hali

posted September 26, 2007 at 7:39 pm


Pam, I’m so glad that somebody else out there is a Nasruddin fan :) I know he isn’t strictly Arab, but I think it was more appropriate than an Abu Abed joke ;)
Peace,
Hali



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MG

posted September 26, 2007 at 7:44 pm


This discussion is way too conservative. I’m shocked at the lack of faith. Why call for and demand only nuclear disarmament by the war-mongering Amerika. We must demand complete unilateral disarmament NOW. Not just nuclear weapons, all weapons must be beaten into plowshares. “Peace through unilateral disarmament” Where are the Berrigan brothers when you need them!



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Mick Sheldon

posted September 26, 2007 at 8:34 pm


Too many things posted here read like Faux News talking points
Come on Don , Want every opinion out of your mouth compared to Air America and Moveonorg . whoops , I guess I see your point .



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N.M. Rod

posted September 26, 2007 at 8:43 pm


The First Amendment doesn’t require providing a forum for unpopular opinions; it supposedly guarantees, though, that providing one is something that cannot be outlawed.
I’m surprised (and chagrined) that so many Christians seem to have so little understanding about just what a guarantee to free speech means. They seem to think it means the right to say what they aren’t too personally offended by.
Thus we have witch-hunts against those holding unpopular opinions in our recent past and jailing them for not only expressing them but even thinking them.
Once, the Bill of Rights was supposed to apply to everyone. That’s based on the Declaration’s wording about certain truths being self-evident, the first being that all persons are created equal. Now we have interpretations and arguments that it’s really only for natural-born citizens, not immigrants whether naturalised citizens, permanent residents or those who swam across the Rio Grande. Of course, in olden times, we had interpretations that said that black slaves were only partial human persons and women were suspect as to their soul competence personhood as well.
In any case, the President of Iran was present in the country legally – though I don’t see why anyone would not have a right to express themselves if they can gain a forum.



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Bill Samuel

posted September 26, 2007 at 9:18 pm


We need to look at historical context. The U.S. spearheaded a coup d’etat in Iran in 1953. They haven’t had true democracy since, although they are closer to it now than they have been much of the time since then. And of course, the U.S. supported Saddam Hussein in his war with Iran.
So an Iranian politician is going to get a lot of support by attacking the U.S. Their experience of us is pretty bad.
The U.S. government has never apologized for overthrowing democracy in Iran. It is pretty ridiculous for Bush to come on as a defender of democracy with respect to Iran (or generally, but particularly with respect to Iran).
And where does Bush get off simultaneously attacking Iran for purportedly trying to develop nuclear weapons while maintaining and expanding the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Do as I say not as I do doesn’t get one very far.
The U.S. needs to repent of its militarism and its domination of other countries, and turn to a different way. Then it could lead by example, and perhaps countries like Iran which have been victims of the U.S. might be willing to follow.



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kevin s.

posted September 26, 2007 at 10:51 pm


“Too many things posted here read like Faux News talking points”
If anything, Fox News reprints talking points from conservative sources. They do not develop their own. That said, can you please draw a comparison between any of my comments here a Fox newscast? I’d be interested to see how they are similar.



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TheOtherJames

posted September 26, 2007 at 11:37 pm


Too many things posted here read like Faux News talking points.Posted by: Don
You got that one right!



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kevin s.

posted September 27, 2007 at 12:20 am


“You got that one right!”
Bazzzzzing! Any response to my questions?



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jonabark

posted September 27, 2007 at 12:27 am


By the way, I find the statement of the rabbi to be hypocritical nonsense. Why would it be OK to murder the thousands of Iranians who would be killed in an aerial assault on nuclear facilities (which would doubtless be accompanied by an all out assault on the Iranian military) in order to destroy an openly inspected peaceful nuclear program approved by the International Atomic Agency. Why is it OK for Israel to have an undeclared nuclear arsenal? Why are there no sanctions agains Israel? I am sick of exceptionalism. The Nuremberg trails and the formation of the UN were a declaration of the principle that There is no excuse for wars of aggression and a call for common standards of international justice.
The rabbi is advocating murder, as are many, based on the fear that this nation might possibly attack Israel, a nation which has attacked no other nation for two centuries. Israel has attacked Lebanon several times and is widely accused of war crimes in the recent atttacks on Lebanon.



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Anonymous

posted September 27, 2007 at 8:26 am


“Come on Don , Want every opinion out of your mouth compared to Air America and Moveonorg. whoops, I guess I see your point.”
Mick: Who’s Air America? (Honest, I don’t know–it sounds like an airline to me.) I’ve heard of MoveOn.org, and I think I know who they are and their purpose, but I don’t visit their site. And I’ve only seen one or two of their ads lately, given that I rarely watch TV.
I try to avoid sound-byte news as much as I can, regardless of source or ideological slant. Believe it or not, Mick, I read thoughtful conservative folks (example: George Will), as well as not-so-conservative. But so much of what is written here reads like an echo chamber. It’s like responding to the same worn-out arguments again and again. And not always from different people, either.
D



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Don

posted September 27, 2007 at 8:34 am


Kevin, you ask a fair question. But I’m not referring only to your comments.
Unfortunately, to answer your question fully would require going through months’ worth of comments here and comparing it with Fox broadcast comments. I can’t afford to take the time and do this. OK, it’s a sense on my part. I’m sure I could document it if I could take a couple days out to do it. Maybe someone here with more time on his/her hands could.
I do think, however, that your continued insistence that the Iranian gov’t is sponsoring insurgency in Iraq is a “talking point.”
D



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Don

posted September 27, 2007 at 11:47 am


It appears that more of the talking points are echoing over at the “Teachable Moment” thread than here.
FWIW,
D



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kevin s.

posted September 27, 2007 at 11:57 am


“Mick: Who’s Air America?”
Well, I’ll say this. Your question about sums it up.
“I do think, however, that your continued insistence that the Iranian gov’t is sponsoring insurgency in Iraq is a “talking point.”"
It used to be one of the rallying cries of the left, suggesting that we fighting a proxy war with Iran. That isn’t entirely true either, but are you arguing with the contention that Iran is involved in Iraq?



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neuro_nurse

posted September 27, 2007 at 1:50 pm


“How do you laugh in Arabic?”
The same way you do in English. The same way all humans do.
FYI, the national language of Iran is not Arabic, it’s Farsi.
(I should have picked up on that one a lot sooner)
Salaam alaikum. (I hope by now you know what that means. Incidentally, that is the same in both Arabic and Farsi. FWIW, I know a smattering of both.)



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Don

posted September 27, 2007 at 2:11 pm


“Well, I’ll say this. Your question about sums it up.”
What is that supposed to mean?
“… but are you arguing with the contention that Iran is involved in Iraq?”
I’m not arguing that Iranians aren’t involved there. But what evidence demonstrates that the government of Iran is sponsoring insurgency in Iraq?
D



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Don

posted September 27, 2007 at 2:23 pm


“The same way you do in English. The same way all humans do.”
The sad thing is that so many of us want to construe Iranians, Arabs, Muslims, whatever as an “other” because they are not like us in some ways. This tempts us into to forgetting the basic fact that they are all humans too, and as Christians, I believe we’re obligated to resist that temptation. It’s the image of God thing.
Of course, forgetting that they’re human makes it easier to propose bombing them or invading their countries without pricking our consciences so sharply.
Wa alaikum as-Salaam



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neuro_nurse

posted September 27, 2007 at 2:47 pm


“Of course, forgetting that they’re human makes it easier to propose bombing them”
It’s also easier to bomb people when all we see are numbers instead of dead children, dead women, dead people who were never any threat to us at all.
Dead children.



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kevin s.

posted September 27, 2007 at 2:52 pm


“What is that supposed to mean?”
Air America is a radio station that was developed to counter right-wing radio. It didn’t take, partly because they headlined with Al Franken, who isn’t actually funny or interesting.



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Don

posted September 27, 2007 at 3:53 pm


OK, I’ve heard of Franken. I’ve seen his books for sale at the local B&N. But I didn’t know he had a radio station. And I haven’t read any of his books, either; I’m not likely to, either, anymore than I’m likely to spend the evening watching Fox News.
Peace,



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Don

posted September 27, 2007 at 4:24 pm


“FWIW, I know a smattering of both [Farsi and Arabic].”
Neuro_nurse, I know this is off topic, but can you read anything in either language (or both)? I’ve been curious as to how the Persians were able to adapt the Arabic script (which records a Semitic language) to write their own tongue (an Indo-European language like Greek, Latin, and, ultimately, English).
D



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Payshun

posted September 27, 2007 at 5:17 pm


I did not realize how left I was until I read these comments. Kidding about that. But Franken and a few others are on the station. There are some good shows on there like the Randi Rhodes show and a few others but in general it’s not that good. I don’t like listening to angry radio or talk radio in general.
p



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neuro_nurse

posted September 27, 2007 at 6:24 pm


Don,
I can’t read Arabic script, but after cutting & pasting the Amharic equivalents of English – or rather, Latin alphabet transliterations of Amharic – I have a rudimentary knowledge of the Ethiopic script. (Amharic is also a Semitic language)
I had a friend who tested me on my ability to read Ethiopic. I’d plod my way though a text only to discover that it was an Ethiopic transliteration of a book title in English!
Anyway, I can read Amharic restaurant menus.
Regarding your curiosity about how the Arabic script was adapted to Farsi, many of the local languages in Ethiopia, as in other parts of Africa, were strictly verbal, so you’ll see typically see the Latin alphabet used for them, although Tigrinya uses the Ethiopic script, and the script has been modified to accommodate Orominya. I suspect that there are African languages in places with strong Arab/Muslim influence that use the Arabic script.



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neuro_nurse

posted September 27, 2007 at 6:28 pm


I listened to Air America in Seattle while driving, which wasn’t very often.
Considering the demographic of people who typically listen to talk radio, I’m not sure that that is a population Liberals would want to emulate.



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DeWayne

posted September 27, 2007 at 7:15 pm


neuro_nurse
You understand some of farsi, I have the location where President Mahomoud Ahmadinejad speach can be found, in which he said “Israel Should Be Wiped Off the Map.” My research finds this speach and statement was never made.
http://www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadinejad/speeches/1384/aban-84/840804sahyonizm.htm

I’ve done an article borrowing from source’s involved in explaining Iran President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad having never stated the “Wipe Israel Off the Map”, but was actually quoting a statement by the Ayatollah Khomeini whose exact words in farsi: “Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad”, meaning in English, “The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”
Also the Western or English idiom of ‘wiping something away’ is not an expression Iraqi use, and the Persian word for map, “nagsheh”, is found no where in any of the statement’s made.
The origin of the misquoted statement is actually taken from a broadcast and statement by a Islamic Republic News Agency, and they changed the exact wording it appears every time they reported this statement again.
It appears our illustrous government or US-Media are in collusion in propaganda.



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bren

posted September 27, 2007 at 8:46 pm


Two important things that no one has mentioned so far. 1) Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was INVITED to Columbia. Were the comments by Columbia’s President appropriate for someone he’d invited? I’d say not. 2) President Bush has said he would never negotiate with Iran. That means that those who have written to say that they don’t advocate attacking Iran, unless and until we attempt other options need to understand that some people in the White House, at least, are only interested in attacking Iran.
I contrast this position from a so-called faith-based President with the nonviolent actions of the Buddhist priests and nuns in Burma. I have read that it is common practice for the priests to stand quietly outside homes every morning holding out their begging bowls. It is considered a gift for people to put food and other things into the bowl, rather than a gift for the receiver. In fact, the priests are not allowed to pick out the especially tasty bits, but must mix everything up so everything is equally good. When the priests were recently showing their outrage at the Burmese government’s increasing fuel prices by 500% they simply turned their begging bowls over, making it clear that they would not accept gifts from this military government. What a statement of their faith that is!



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DeWayne

posted September 27, 2007 at 9:52 pm


Jim Wallis statement makes these chargesIran’s serious human rights violations (including allegations that teenage boys were hanged for being gay), support for terrorism in conflicts around the world, support for insurgents in Iraq who are killing Iraqi civilians and American soldiers, and—most alarmingly—its development of a nuclear capacity that could easily translate into weapons, are serious problems the rest of the world is rightly concerned with.
Would it be slander to bring up the mentally retarded executed in Texas?
What is it called when you start out with ‘allegations’, and then link this by following-up with a long list of charges, charges also backed by no more than allegation (or) slander. Was Iran complicit in supporting Iraq to kill civilians (and) US soldiers, or is this from the continuous stream of lies being charged by the Bush-Admin/Pentagon, unproved and unbelieved by many. May I also add the ‘Iran Weapons’ being reported as found, according to reports are mainly Russian and Chinese design and production, advising our government is known to collect both stencils/spray-paint (serial numbers) and munitions from of other nations. Am I inferring our present government would fake this evident, you bet, and twice on Sunday.
And what of his statement of Irans development of a nuclear capacity that could easily translate into weapons.
I believe from ‘dependable reports’ there is not one shred of evidence to link Irans nuclear Power Plant enriching of uranium to Atomic Weapons (3.5%-grade usable only in Power Plants while considerably more ore to make 90%-grade for Atomic Weapons that two other nations in this area already have). Has Jim taken the time to discover that the United Nations-IAEA people to this day advise that Iran is in compliance with present UN parameters, protocols and by-laws. I won’t count the few small-nation members of the UN that the US-Gov bullied into saying Iran was non-compliant. As a member of the UN-IAEA Iran in fact has every legal right to develop facilities for nuclear-enriched plutonium (3.5%) usable only in Power Plants.
And then there is the Wallis clincher, “…are serious problems the rest of the world is rightly concerned with.”
Had Jim Wallis checked into this, a couple speakers from other ‘Empires-nations’ may have also made similar false charges, but in fact among the common citizen’s within these same Empire-nations (seldom listen to by their leaders), these common-citizens speak of the US Gov-Regime that they worry most about, a Rogue-Gov that is bringing disaster to the entire world. At this very time the US-Gov is developing an amory of new nuclear weapons further upping the nuclear race.
From this it appears there should be a more thorough check into actual truths regarding the Middle East, also the Empire ‘Constublary’ ambitions of the US-Empire like Dick Chenies Halliburton. Speaking of Halliburton, Betchel and other Empire nations, there are also the nuclear industries now in India, Taiwan, State of Israel, Iraq and Syria (yep until attacked by a foreign power), Pakistan and China.



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DeWayne

posted September 27, 2007 at 10:14 pm


brenTwo important things that no one has mentioned so far. 1) Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was INVITED to Columbia.
Will share a secret with you (wink, wink)… Columbia University President Lee C. Bollinger invited the Iran President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to come to his University, and speak before the entire world including the entire American TV-audience, and in this (would not back down for an instant).
Bollinger had only (one problem), and to cover his charge being the University (what academic political excellence), he (made it look) like he most embarrassedly attacking his guest, (made it look like) he attacked his guest.
bren… the man outdid the deceivers he deceived, my hat is off to this learned and politically genius of a University President. Now WHO did he have to deceive… this is for you to find out.



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DeWayne

posted September 27, 2007 at 10:30 pm


bren
Hint… check out YouTube-Scott Ritter-Israeli Lobby.



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canucklehead

posted September 27, 2007 at 11:06 pm


>>>- Oh, my God! Forgive my questioning your ways! You are all-wise. Where would I have been now, if pumpkins grew on trees!
Posted by: Hali | September 26, 2007 1:58 PM
Hali, are you suggesting a pumpkin fell on Donny’s head?



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canucklehead

posted September 27, 2007 at 11:15 pm


>>>”This is not a Christian nation – we are a nation of idolaters – our god is money.”
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 26, 2007 5:10 PM
Presumably which is why your currency states IN GOLD WE TRUST



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neuro_nurse

posted September 27, 2007 at 11:21 pm


“are you suggesting a pumpkin fell on Donny’s head?”
Well, Halloween is just around the corner.
Oops – godless liberals and our satanic holidays!



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jonabark

posted September 28, 2007 at 2:36 am


It seems that some of you, rather than dispute the many facts provided by DeWayne have taken to calling him anti-semitic. Many Jewish writers share Dewaynes critique of the double standards surrounding Israel and the US when it comes to evaluating their policies, and military actions.
Also many are citing instances of injustice in Iran as though that provides a justification for an aerial bombardment that would take many innocrent lives. This is collective punishment and has long been regarded as fundamentally immoral. War and mass killing do not create an atmosphere in which human rights concerns and thedemocratically legitimate rule of law flourish. Consider the war in Afghanistan. Rather than ending abuses against women, drug trafficing and warlords as promised these problems are now rampant. Afghanis were far more open to American intervention than Iraqis. Now they increasingly resent and mistrust us.
For those who agree that war with Iran would be criminal, foolish , or wrong I urge you to write your congressional reps and ask them to repeal the war powers act and demand congressional approval before any attack on Iran.



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canucklehead

posted September 28, 2007 at 11:51 am


Speaking of satanic holidays, when I was a kid growing up in fundamentalist circles, we weren’t allowed to celebrate Halloween but instead celebrated All Saints Day where we could dress up as a Bible character for a school party.
One year I borrowed my sister’s red leotards, made some tin foil horns and got a red fork and went as the devil, thinking that he/she/it surfaced fairly early in the Biblical narrative.
I was sent home.



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neuro_nurse

posted September 28, 2007 at 12:12 pm


“I was sent home.”
I can certainly understand why – you, in red leotards?!



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Don

posted September 28, 2007 at 12:22 pm


The funny thing about these fundamentalist attitudes toward Halloween and the like is that the tradition of dressing up on that day was originated by Christians as a way to make fun of the devil. The same mentality was responsible for the carving of those grotesque gargoyles on medieval churches and other buildings.
So now the fundies want to turn this day over to the neo-pagans?!
Let’s all get together and send Donny some e-cards for Halloween. How about it?
D



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DeWayne

posted September 29, 2007 at 1:29 am


“This is not a Christian nation – we are a nation of idolaters – our god is money.”
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 26, 2007 5:10 PM
Answer: Presumably which is why your currency states IN GOLD WE TRUST
Not funny, most of the Gold in Ft Knox has certif-of-ownership other than American government. The American economy and dollar according Greenspan and the man that replaced him, is today in grave danger. What the US-Gov fears most today is that out US-Dollar might cease to be the Int’l-Note of Exchange. The last nation in our present state of economy (Funny Money printed in great excess aka Debt) was Germany after WWI, and when nervous investers made a run on German Treasury, it took a wheelborrow of Funny Money to buy a loaf of bread.
Recently a nation that has gotten considerable US-Aid (forgiven) from America since 1950s, said they wanted instead of the US-Dollar, from not on requested the EURO. Any nation that has gotten $2-Trillion aid since 1950s, could easily go to a proper bank and exchange the Dollar for EURO, what do you suppose this nation was saying?



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neuro_nurse

posted September 29, 2007 at 10:18 pm


“Not funny”
Don’t worry, canucklehead won’t think it’s funny either when thousands upon thousands of yanks start streaming over the Canadian border looking for jobs.



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Darryl

posted October 5, 2007 at 1:13 pm


Put all of the justifying rhetoric aside, and which is the only nation in history to drop not one, but two neucular bombs on civilian populations ?
The U.S. had it’s reasons ( justifications, rationalizations ) Iran has theirs. Why was it justifyable in one instance, and unthinkably evil in another ? Because americans are the “good people”, they the evil beasts? Yet it’s the same blast of radiation, the same kind of human flesh that gets fried. Do Iranian parents not love their children? Would it not tear their hearts to see them horribly incinerated? ( deliberatly chosen word ) Do the words that surround the act make any real difference?



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DeWayne

posted November 9, 2007 at 1:16 pm


Question: But he has also denied that the Holocaust ever happened. This is a different quote. What more do we need to do to look into the “historic Genocide period”?
Answer: Use your brain for a second, (you) say he denies that the Holocaust ever happened, then please tell me how you finding him asking for a more in depth investigation of the ‘Holocaust’.
President Mahmound Ahmadinejad is using this mis-information while turning the PsyOPs and lies of the Western Empire against them, keeping ordinary Americans involved in searching out and finding the truth about ‘Aparthied’ in Palestine, and war-mongering by the US Corp-Gov.



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DeWayne

posted November 9, 2007 at 2:48 pm


Statement: If our goal is imperial domination of the globe, we are doing a remarkably poor job of it. We invaded Iraq, and then we let them elect their own leaders. That’s a stupid way to be imperialist.
Answer: It does appear the mentally deranged such as the PNAC-Cabal in the White House are indeed as sharp as a sewer-cover. Ole Dick Cheney as Dept of Defense dir must have felt quite ‘mesna’ when denying America had Poison-gas such as stockpiles of Sarin-gas weapons. Considering America has signed treaties outlawing such weapons, mensa may not be best description.
Unfortunately today the Pentagon appears to be getting a ‘Cease and Desist’ order to stop the burning of our Weapons-Stockpile of Sarin-Chem down in Alabama…. See website:
http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Army-Incineration-VX-Sarin-GB29mar02.htm



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DeWayne

posted February 14, 2008 at 1:02 pm


At a time when Americans are finally beginning to stand up and demanding (Real Change) in government and politics, the Democratic party has begun a sleazy method of side stepping the mandate and intentions of their constituents. They call this new method ‘Super Delegates’, where insiders of the DEM-machine are given delegate voting powers not established in and by grass roots voters and caucuses. As a matter of fact these Super Delegates in their final voting may elect a delegate having nothing to do with their back-home caucuse and constituent voting.
This Super Delegate scheme is simply a method of making sure the (right) candidate is selected to represent the ‘machine’, rather than some rabble-rouser selected by grass-roots constituents. This will ensure that despite the grass roots wanting to vote candidates into Office similar to the 2004 election to end the Crimes Against Humanity in Iraq, the DEM-heirarchy like Nancy Peloise and DEM heirarchy instead ended up kissing the Bush-Admin ass.
Look into this ‘Super Delegate’ scheme, you tell me if this will make a government of the people, by the people, and for the people? Or is this a case where corrupt individuals have taken over our government for Pork/PAC/Perk/Payola benefits given by a wealthy elite who control (entirely) this nation?



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