God's Politics

God's Politics


Elnour Adam: A Voice from Darfur

posted by gp_intern

Elnour Adam is Projects Director at the Darfur Rehabilitation Project. Sojourners spoke with him recently at Ecumenical Advocacy Days.

What is The Darfur Rehabilitation Project?

The Darfur Rehabilitation Project is a U.S.-based Darfurian NGO, advocating for the people, Darfur’s peoples’ rights to live humanely. Actually, we are mobilizing the international community, the U.S. people, and the faith groups, and other entities to advocate for Darfurian rights. We believe that the United States faith groups, they have the moral integrity to help the Darfurians attain the sustainable peace, and they can work with the United States government, and they can leverage the United States institutions to work to realize peace in Darfur. So the Darfur Rehabilitation Project is working closely with all the entities, with all the faith groups, in the United States as well as other European countries for the right of the Darfurians to live humanely.

And how did you yourself get involved?

I am Darfurian myself. My siblings and my whole family is in refugee camps. My area is the first area to be bombarded by the Sudanese government. The area is Habilah. It’s in western Sudan; it’s at the border of the Sudan and Chad. It’s what they called the Masalit community area. My family, the whole family, is pushed out to Chad and up to now they are still in the refugee camps, and we know that the refugee camps themselves were attacked by the Sudanese government and their supported group [the Janjaweed] that is now destabilizing the situation in Chad itself.

Unfortunately, the Sudanese government has succeeded in pushing the poor Darfurians from their villages, from their areas where they are self-sustaining, to the outskirts of some of the suburbs. But now, since they [the Khartoum government] succeeded in the first phase, now they are pushing them to the outskirts of the major cities, and relocating them permanently and the Janjaweed, the proxy militia that the government empowers, is taking their areas, so we are permanently [replacing] the people of Darfur with other entities, with other people that support the government.

What’s the last news that you’ve had from home?

The Sudanese government succeeded in cutting the communications by buying the companies that supply the communication tools to the different Darfurian areas. So now the Darfurians are cut off of any links to the international community. Not only that, but they hampered the aid community. And most of them left Darfur. So they left Darfurians vulnerable to starvation, as well as any human rights abuses from the Sudanese government and their proxy-militia.

So the cutoff of communication, does that mean mobile phones?

Yes. Mobile phones, satellite communication, they are all cut off – any kind of communication. [They did it] by buying the assets of the supplying firms to this communication – international communication and satellite stations.

When did that happen?

That happened recently, in the months of January, February. And so up to now we cannot hear that many incidents because they are cut off. But a lot of incidents are happening right now on the ground. People are dying every day, the starvation is wide spreading. Morbidity rate is higher now than ever in Darfur, because most of the humanitarian organizations, international humanitarian organizations, left the area because of the insecurity. Because of the government blocks to give them permits. So they are more vulnerable than ever.



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moderatelad

posted March 22, 2007 at 10:38 pm


So Mr. Wallis – what do you suggest that we do?Looks like the bad guys are running the country – we should talk with them. Oh – they have cut off all communication – oh well looks like they don’t want to talk to anyone from the outside.I know – let’s go to the UN, they should be able to get things done. They are not very quick about turning things around. They are very ineffective in stopping any conflicts around the world. But they did so well on the ‘food for oil’, there should be something that they could make money on in Darfur. (the French could figure out how to get things done as long as they can make money in the process) We know that we can not use any military action against them as this situation does not come close to the ‘just war’ and preemptive does not apply either. (not sure where humanitarian fits into this…) So I guess we will just sit on our comfy backsides and talk – talk and talk some more.One question Mr. Wallis. The US has the best military in the world. With a little bit of planning we could go in and remove the people in power and open the country up to humanitarian aid in a matter of weeks. By doing this some people that we would like to help will die in the conflict. But if we let the UN figure this one out and just talk about it like so many pacifists seem to do. How many more will die with no hope while the UN sorts this out. (personally – I as a father would rather die even from friendly fire if I knew that someone was coming to our aid and the aid of my family) So please Mr. Wallis – find your articulate friends that write so well for you site and have them tell us what we should do. How this is one of the worst things to happen to a country in the past 50+ years. Let gather again for a service in any church around the nation and blast Bush for what is happening in Darfur. I will be looking for a group that is willing to covertly overthrow those in charge of Darfur so that we can get them the help that they need. Later – and may God forgive us for our inaction and complacency. .



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squeaky

posted March 23, 2007 at 12:12 am


moderatelad, Your post is odd, in that you chide liberals for criticizing Bush for not doing anything. Meanwhile, you are calling for military intervention. At the same time, although you criticize those who criticize Bush, the very action you think should be taken has not even been discussed by our current administration. You should be joining in the call to action to Bush if you really think that is the direction we should go. Whatever solution has been suggested–military or diplomatic–the point is the U.S. has done very little to address the situation in Darfur, and at the very least, you should be on the same page and every bit as outraged as Mr. Wallis for that very reason. The thing is, though, we have seen time and time again when military action hasn’t worked at all, and in fact has made things worse. We are seeing that in Iraq right now. The problem is some people think the military solution is the only solution and don’t take the time or have the imagination to think of other possibile solutions. Because of that, we go to war before carefully assessing the situation, weighing our options, or exhausting other possible solutions, or we don’t fully consider what challenges we may face in the conflict (witness Somalia, Viet Nam, and again, Iraq). Remember, we assumed we could just waltz right into Iraq and take it in just a couple weeks or at most a few months. We may have the strongest military in the world, but that strength has bred deadly arrogance and short-sightedness when it comes to assessing military situations. It didn’t take a military genious to spell the word quagmire when it came to Iraq (all it took is someone to remember how to spell Viet Nam), and sure enough, that’s what we got because we very arrogantly went forth to conquer a situation we did not fully assess or understand. I’m not saying I don’t think military intervention isn’t a viable option. But if we go that route, we need to carefully consider the repercussions of that direction. One of the issues to consider is the fact that Darfur has oil and China wants it. We go in there with military force–how will the world’s largest military respond to that? As much as I would like to see us just go in and kick butt for those people, the results could be disastrous, and there are other ways to stop the violence if we take the time to learn about the situation and apply pressure in the most meaningful places. China has enough clout to do something about the violence in Darfur, but they don’t. Perhaps the screws should be put to China, so they do something. And their economic ties to the U.S. are just strong enough that we could make a difference if we start applying that kind of pressure.



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dlw

posted March 23, 2007 at 2:27 am


thanks for the update. I just don’t feel like I can ever do enough for Darfur. I wish the US gov’t would ban companies that do business with the gov’t of Sudan from the NYSE. God, its so hard to deal with these serious problems in our world, to say nothing of everywhere else… It’s so important to have faith. I wish God’s POlitics could also draw attention to what’s going on in Ukraine right now, as we see what may well lead to lead up to a sequel to the Orange Revolution. http://foreignnotes.blogspot.com/ and http://orangeukraine.squarespace.com/journal/2007/3/12/site-ossification.html#comments One possibility would be to make Yuriy Lutsenko, who is leading rallies in Ukraine, a guest blogger. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuriy_Lutsenko just thought I’d mention it, it’s something you might want to consider, as political freedom for Ukraine matters for many freedoms in the Former Soviet Union, including religious freedom. dlw



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Payshun

posted March 23, 2007 at 3:47 am


or Zimbabwe http://www.genocidewatch.org/africa/zimbabwe/news/2002/ or… There are so many places where thousands are dying. We must deal w/ it. p



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ds0490

posted March 23, 2007 at 5:15 am


As long as business is good, nothing will happen to the Sudanese government. And for these companies, business is good in Sudan. – Talisman Energy (Canada) — the largest foreign investor in Sudan – the Chinese National Petroleum Company/CNPC – Petroliam Nasional Bhd/Petronas (Malaysia) – BP/British Petroleum (UK) – TotalFinaElf (France/Belgium) – Gabaco (Mauritania – formerly Agip, Italy facilities) – OMV (Austria) – Lundin Petrolium AB (Sweden) – Qatar National petroleum (Quatar) – Tenaga Nasional (Malaysia) – Royal Dutch Shell (Netherlands) – Weir Pumps (UK) – Mobil – Trafigura Beheer BV (Netherlands) – EDF (Electricite de France) – Daewoo (Korea; has a branch in Khartoum) – Lufthansa (Germany; has a branch and Sudan-specific Website, http://www.sudan.lufthansa.com/) – KLM (Netherlands; has a branch in Khartoum) – Rolls Royce (UK) – Monsanto (chemicals/pesticides/biotech) – Hilton hotels – Le Meridien hotels (France) – Thomas Cook (UK travel sercie) – Mitsubishi Motors (activity through Mitsubishi Motors Philippines Corporation (MMPC)) – Lucky Goldstar/LG (Korean electronics) joint venture with Sudan’s Saria Industrial Complex – Emery Worldwide – Maersk (Austria) – (Hyundai, Korea has plans) – (Mitsui Mining, Japan has plans) – ADI Limited – ANL Container Line Pty Limited – Arab Bank Australia Ltd – Automotive Components Ltd – Ballantyne Foods Pty Ltd. – BGP International Pty Ltd – Comgroup Supplies Pty Ltd – Commonwealth Bank Australia Limited – Danzas AEI Pty Ltd – Emirates (Airline) The best weapon to stop the deaths in Darfur is for investors in these companies to push them to leave the country. The Sudanese government uses the revenue from these companies to fund the forces attacking the people in Darfur. If the world were serious about stopping this genocide, these companies would be pressured to leave. Clearly the world is content with the status quo…as long as it is profitable.



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moderatelad

posted March 23, 2007 at 5:55 am


squeaky | 03.22.07 – 6:17 pm | #Please do not think that I don’t feel for the people in Darfur or that I think we should not do anything. It is just that God help the Republican that does anything as they will be lampooned by Kennedy, Pelosi, Feinstein and Sojo.I wish that Iraq had gone better than it has but I am not a prophet. I do not believe that Sojo will support any military action in Darfur because it does not meet their criteria, so they will just talk about it.Sojo has written about how the UN is more moral than the US but they will attack and accuse Bush for international problems that the UN has overlooked for years – more than a little disingenuous. By dropping the bomb on Japan it is estimated that we saved over 400,000 American lives and 1,000,000+ Japanese lives. How many people in Darfur will die because of the UN’s inaction? When will their cries fill our ears to the point that we tell the UN to stuff it again and are called upon to be the world’s police – again? I want to end the suffering sooner rather than later. I do not see diplomacy working as it has been tried already and nothing has worked. Wallis and Sojo will not support military action as it does not meet the ‘just war’ paradigm.So – we are at a stale mate. People are dying – oh well. If we (God help us) end up going in to Darfur without the blessing of Sojo – they will have another reason to meet at the National Cathedral again and condemn the US and Adm, and all will be well in the Land of Sojo. Later – for us…to late for Darfur? .



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squeaky

posted March 23, 2007 at 5:58 am


ds0490–exactly. These are the companies that need to be pressured by SOMEONE whether it is Christians, Amnesty International, the UN, or the US. But–to borrow and modify a line from Hotel Rwanda (modify because I don’t know the exact quote) “people in America see the atrocities in Rwanda on TV and say, ‘God that’s horrible’ and then go on eating their dinners.” As long as we are comfortable, we don’t think about it. So–how can we change that? So, you see, Moderatelad, as much as I would like to see a simple military solution to the problem–as much as I would like to agree with you that it would be an easy thing to accomplish militarily, you can see the situation is far more complex than that.



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squeaky

posted March 23, 2007 at 6:07 am


Moderatelad–you posted as I was writing my last post…hopefully you get my point above. The reason Sojo and others (myself included) do not support a military solution is that it is a short-sighted response to the conflict. As ds pointed out above, the best means of helping Darfur is to cut off the support of those doing the killing, and those companies listed above are the ones who need to be pressured intensely. I’m not a prophet, either, but somehow I predicted the quagmire in Iraq would happen before we went to war. I know squat about military tactics and planning, so how can I have made such a prediction? I know just a little about Vietnam, that’s how–so did Bush’s military advisors, for that matter, but they suffered from the arrogance of the might. I also know just a little bit about Somalia and Rwanda, and a little bit about the politics of oil. A military engagement is very dangerous when oil is involved–we currently are on the precipice of the entire Middle East destabilizing–it would not take much. and if that happens, the world economy will collapse. So a military intervention in Darfur could be disastrous.



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Mike Hayes

posted March 23, 2007 at 6:46 am


I think the wealthy west could solve the problem “without breaking a sweat”, if we could focus our charitable contributions on assisting persons in Darfur and other similar circumstances. Where do the vast majority of our “charitable contributions” go? Is that cause more important than assisting those who are “thirsty”, “hungry”, “naked”, etc.?



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Donny

posted March 23, 2007 at 2:50 pm


Mike, tell that to the “Reverend Barry Lynn,” and all the Leftists (Progressives) that rant and rave about seperation of Church and state. For Darwin’s sake, let’s hope no tax dollars are going to the “faith groups” involved to help the poor and needy; making up your “thirsty, hungry, naked” etc., etc., etc.. Ever taken just a moment of time to see the wierdness of Leftists hating Evangelicals on one hand and then attempting to copy all of the goodness that is the Evangelical Christian movement worldwide? Hey “Progressives “Why not just go back to Starbucks and your University jobs and let Christians do what Christians do. That being: Feeding and clothing the poor and needy, the thirsty, hungry and naked? And bringing Christ to then nations. You know, what Jesus told His followers to do. (It’s documented,) What, just now you are realizing what it is to be a Christian? The Evangelicals have never veered from that path in 2000-plus years. For it is Christian missionary work to help the poor and needy. The political involvement became necessary as we started witnessing the carnage being wrought upon the world by Leftist political forces. Always dictatorial and totalitarian. Always. Politics is a great mission field as well. How many are being destroyed there? Billions and billions according “to the Bible.” Like it is being said, it is not Right versus Left, it is Right versus wrong. But please do endeavor to encourage Progressives to copy Christians, as it will eventually save many, many lives. I little Christianity is better than no Christianity at all. Look at the situation in godless communist and socialist countries and Islamic countries worldwide? Know Christ.Know life. No Christ. No Life. “Right?” Seems like a good formula to me since I have lived both formulas, barely escaped death, and now choose Life. And can (now) see what happens in non-Christian countries.How did Jesus know what was going to happen in the future. So many wars and famines and all. It seems we keep getting from bad to worse . . . Pretty smart “guy” that Jesus.



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Donny

posted March 23, 2007 at 2:55 pm


Oh, and notice that the very first responder on this blog carries a heavy dose of cynical tone and sarcasm. The glaring hypocrisy of Progresive (Leftist) ideology and actions is pathetic to addressing what is really going on and going wrong. It (Leftist Progressiveism), may make the adherant to Liberalism feel good about themselves, but it does nothing to stop even more evil people from doing even more evil things. For people who address real evil in this world and do something to stop it, look to the U.S. Republican political factions. That is if truth means anything to you at all.



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moderatelad

posted March 23, 2007 at 2:59 pm


squesky and mike I think we are on the same page for the most part but our approach is different. I am not for military force to be used at the first line in dealing with an issue. It should be the last. The problem as I see if is that the trouble makers in the world see us (the US) as weak. The UN failed in Korea, we failed in VN. (thanks to Teddy Kennedy and company) The UN failed miserably in Rwanda as did the US. We are doing the same thing to Darfur as we did in Rwanda and you quote from the movie is spot on! Don’t get me talking about Somalia and the ‘Black Hawk Down’ issue. The ‘trouble makers’ know that we are the ones that cut and run when things get dicey. Iraq has the potential of being another VN not because of Bush but because Teddy is trying to cut the funding again just like him and his friends did with VN. The ‘proportional response’ idea is pure BULL! You go into a military action to win – period. You go in with the strongest military force you can assemble and you decimate the enemy. You get it over and done with ASAP so that the loss of life is as low as possible. A preemptive show of force could settle a lot and save lives. In the 50′s when Eisenhower was President, the USSR was making overtones about over running Turkey. He put the whole 7th Fleet in the Mediterranean and basically told them – ‘you want to do something…let’s go big!’ They backed off. Can you imagine what Pelosi and Friends would have said if Bush had but the Navy in the Persian Gulf and told Saddam to ‘straighten up or you will be dispatched to Allah?’ The lady would have gone ballistic – she would have pushed to have him jailed or something. Might does not mean right, but if you are right…you better have the might to back it up. How long will it take to get these companies to stop doing business with Somalia and how many more will die in the process? What about a blockade with the Navy (settle down Nancy…) and stop any shipments in or out of there with a small show of force to let the people in charge that the world is not going to stand idly by…on the edge of ‘preemptive’ – no go with Sojo.So we talk and watch our TV’s – how sad. later – .



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Mike Hayes

posted March 23, 2007 at 5:03 pm


Think about where a very high percentage of our “charatible” contributions are going, and then ask yourself what the person who spoke about caring for “thirsty”, “hungry”, “naked” persons would say about our priorities. We’re spending a huge percentage of our charitable contributions on buildings that are being used one day a week. If our charitable contributions were being spent in accordance with the right priorities, there might be no need to push for use of government funds for charitable purposes.That’s a wild guess on my part, but I suspect the amounts that would otherwise be contributed to care for “thirsty”, “hungry”, “naked” persons in extreme poverty, and homeless persons in our own country, would significantly reduce the suffering of those persons, if we had the right priorities for our contributions. Darfur is one exception in which genocide is also an issue, and that goes beyond just providing financial assistance.



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Carl Copas

posted March 23, 2007 at 6:56 pm


Is Kant’s “categorical imperative” relevant here?



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kevin s.

posted March 23, 2007 at 9:36 pm


“Think about where a very high percentage of our “charatible” contributions are going, and then ask yourself what the person who spoke about caring for “thirsty”, “hungry”, “naked” persons would say about our priorities.” We’re spending a huge percentage of our charitable contributions on buildings that are being used one day a week.” It isn’t just churches that are misusing money. Bono’s charity recently came under fire for spending five times as much money on advertising as it has raised to fight AIDS in Africa. That said, many churches that do have buildings use them far more than once a week. Do you go to a church?



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Carl Copas

posted March 23, 2007 at 10:38 pm


kevin s, where can i find out more about Bono’s charity and its expenses on advertising. Thanks in advance.



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kevin s.

posted March 24, 2007 at 12:40 am


The article is in Ad Age, which requires a subscription, but is fairly searchable.



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Payshun

posted March 24, 2007 at 12:57 am


God bless you Donny, may the joy that eludes you find you. May your misery and foolishness end. Oh and leftists are also helping to end things. people like Mia Farrow, George Cloony and others make regular trips to Darfur. So before you criticize the left and progressive ideology why don’t give some of us a little more credit? It might help you find some joy behind that screen of yours. p



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Mike Hayes

posted March 24, 2007 at 5:57 am


Churches spend huge amounts on buildings that are used one day a week. Think about it. What would the person who emphasized “thirsty”, “hungry”, “naked” etc. think about our priorities? The institutional churches have inertia… when will it begin to change… without us, will it ever change…?



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moderatelad

posted March 24, 2007 at 3:49 pm


Mike Hayes | 03.24.07 – 12:02 am | #The church building is not the problem. If it is only being used once a week – that is the congregations fault. A lot of ministry to the community can be done by allowing your building to be accessed be other groups. What a way to show your community that the church today is relevant. later – .



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moderatelad

posted March 24, 2007 at 4:21 pm


Not to be callous about the situation but – there is not a region in the world that is not experiencing famine for any number of reasons. Some as bad as or worse than Darfur. Shouldn’t we deal in areas where we can make a difference and where they are more receptive to our help? It seems that the people in control of the Darfur area are not willing to let us come in and help and those that were there had to leave because they feared for their lives. Since they are armed and ready for any conflict and we know that Sojo will not support military action and diplomacy seems to be futal. Let us work in areas that we can make a difference until the UN does something about Darfur. I will not support any action by the US in Darfur as it has the potential of becoming another Iraq and I do not what that kind of argument to take up our time when we could be assisting people in another part of the world. Later – .



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ds0490

posted March 24, 2007 at 6:21 pm


Our Congress recently passed even stronger economic sanctions against Sudan. But they exempted gum arabic, once again. Why? You see, Sudan is the largest supplier of gum arabic in the world. http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article16994 And of all the items sanctioned from Sudan, gum arabic is exempt. http://www.american.edu/ted/gumarab.htm This odorless, tasteless, non-toxic gum is used in such US staples as soda, gummy bears, gumdrops, marshmallows, Girl Scout cookies, Big Macs, Whoppers, postage stamps, cigarette papers…you know, things we could not do without. http://www.answers.com/topic/gum-arabic So next time you have that Big Mac, fries and a Coke, raise a toast to the dead folks in Darfur. A small portion of that $5.99 you just spent is helping put bullets into the guns that are killing them.



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Payshun

posted March 24, 2007 at 6:27 pm


Moderatelad,We can do much more to help in the region than sending in our troops. It’s just we lack the will or motivation to what’s necessary to handle this. A lot of that has to do w/ seeing Africa as a place where we can ignore it’s many problems. There is a non- covered genocide in Zimbabwe that no one really reporting on.We just have to support African leaders ending the problem there. I think us going in and trying to end it would make it worse not better ie Iraq, Afghanistan… We don’t need more of that. We need to support leaders in the region that are fighting for change and create places that are secure for the refugees and that’s where our soldiers can be of assistance and then financially break the back of the government. p



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kevin s.

posted March 24, 2007 at 6:48 pm


“This odorless, tasteless, non-toxic gum is used in such US staples as soda, gummy bears, gumdrops, marshmallows, Girl Scout cookies, Big Macs, Whoppers, postage stamps, cigarette papers…you know, things we could not do without.” …pharamaceuticals, stamps, adhesives and all manner of packaging which would be a great deal more difficult to do without. If you are going to make a case, please don’t be coy about it.



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squeaky

posted March 24, 2007 at 9:41 pm


kevin S.–you completely missed the point. Re-read Ds0490′s post.



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Mike Hayes

posted March 24, 2007 at 10:14 pm


Why not rent space from a theater on weekends and reduce expenses for buildings and thereby enable church members to contribute the savings to help those who are living in extreme poverty abroad and homeless persons here in our country? Wouldn’t that be more consistent with the message about kindness to “thirsty” and so on being done to God as well as to the persons in those circumstances? Wouldn’t God prefer that we use our contributions that way? God doesn’t need us to build huge cathedrals to honor God… maybe we need to do that because it allows us to think what wonderful things we are doing by building huge places to “honor God”. It’s completely misplaced, that thinking. Inertia will keep it so, for decades and centuries… unless persons who see it for what it is begin speaking up and diverting contributions away from churches for buildings and on instead to organizations like Oxfam and Heifer International and Second Harvest and homeless shelters.



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Payshun

posted March 25, 2007 at 1:06 am


Great suggestion Mike and our church is doing that. But we need to do more, I need to do more. Blessingsp



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Mike Hayes

posted March 25, 2007 at 5:21 am


Payshun, It’s hard for any of us to cut back on our contributions to our church. It would seem like we aren’t carrying our fair share of the load for meeting expenses associated with the buildings. We enjoy the weekly gatherings… we should contribute more and more… expenses go up and up… how can we possibly not contribute more and more… much less reduce our contributions in a significant amount? If we don’t start the process, it will just get worse and worse… expenses will go up and up… It has to stop. It prevents all of us from doing what we can to help “thirsty” and others in desperate circumstances.



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squeaky

posted March 25, 2007 at 5:41 am


I agree with you, Mike–one of the things I saw one of my former churches do which was completely unnecessary was replace their overhead projector with the computer projector. It’s a very small church, and I do not see the need for it. Unfortunately, I wasn’t there at the time to say anything. You make a good suggestion about renting movie theaters and such.



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moderatelad

posted March 25, 2007 at 5:07 pm


Mike Hayes | 03.24.07 – 4:19 pm | #Why not rent space from a theater on weekends and reduce expenses for buildings and… If you are going to a ‘sunday only’ church – maybe that is the problem. I know of two nights that our church might be dark – other than that the community uses our facility for any number of reasons. Sorta like the ‘church being the church’. If you have a Wed.nite program – the theater is not going to help with that. later- .



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moderatelad

posted March 25, 2007 at 5:16 pm


I believe that this is where you and I can agree – for different reasons. I will not support military action as if we do it correctly – hit them fast – hard and with many times the strength they have – Sojo and company will scream faul. If we do it ‘proportionally’ – it just becomes a game of one upmanship and last too long and costs a lot of lives. Diplomacy – the only thing that I have seen happen in the past 20 years what was close to being diplomatically successful was when we attacked Iraq and Kadafi in Lybia considered what might happen to him and opened his borders and became a little more friendly to the west. The UN in my estimation has bee a diplomatic failure over the past 15+ years. (oil for food) So here we sit and talk just what Sojo and company do so well and we will being doing the same thing a few months from now and maybe a year from now. And how many more will die in the process. What is the collertal damage of our inaction going to cost the people in Darfur? Later – .



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kevin s.

posted March 26, 2007 at 9:17 pm


“kevin S.–you completely missed the point. Re-read Ds0490′s post.” He questioned why we exampted gum arabic. I assumed the question to be rhetorical, insofar as DS seems obviously to oppose the exemption. “Why not rent space from a theater on weekends and reduce expenses for buildings and thereby enable church members to contribute the savings to help those who are living in extreme poverty abroad and homeless persons here in our country?” Yes, but renting space from a theater has its own costs, especially when you factor in midweek meetings. Further, I would be clear that our mission is to make disciples. Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked et al… are means to this end. Therefore, if a church needs a building in order to make disciples, and many do, then they should not be chastised for doing so. Many of these churches to a tremendous amount to help the poor.



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Payshun

posted March 28, 2007 at 12:21 am


Kevin for once I agree. p



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moderatelad

posted March 28, 2007 at 2:40 pm


kevin s. | Homepage | 03.26.07 – 3:22 pm | #Yes they do! The Crystal Cathedral was built by donations seperate from the offering taken each Sunday and from donations to the TV ministry. The first offering taken in that building built a clinic/hospital and outfitted it with the equipment needed. Kinda Cool. My little church has a food shelf available to the community M-F and is used for several events/gatherings for the community with no charge to the group using the facility. Later – .



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moderatelad

posted March 28, 2007 at 2:51 pm


Well – this is going to fall off the page I believe sometime today. SO – what are we to do with Darfur? Anything but to military actions will be taken. Fine, I will agree. I mean why come to the aid of our brothers and sisters when it might cost us our lives. Jesus came and was willing to die for the salvation of all mankind, should we be willing to risk our lives for a few? SO – what…let the UN take care of the situation they do such a good job and solving and settling conflicts. (and let us not forget making money in the process)] Question – how many more will die because of our inaction over the next year? If we took military action and blasted their military instillations into history and in the process take out a few of the leadership. Yes – some innocent people would more than likely die in the process. But – it we could stop the killing in Darfur by getting rid of a few. How many more innocent people would still be alive and have the prospect of a better life?Stay home with Sojo! Later – .



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jsens

posted March 30, 2007 at 3:54 pm


When will we ever learn to keep our nose out of other people’s business. A few years ago we had troops slaughtered and inhumanly dragged through streets in Mogadishu.We have a terrible mess on our hands in Iraq. Now, some want the us to take some kind of action in, of all places, Darfur. This is an African problem. Not ours. We didn’t cause it and we have no responsibility to solve it. The United States is not the world’s policeman.



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