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Obama Gains Big Among White Catholics

posted by dgilgoff

linegraph.jpgThe Obama campaign is crowing to God-o-Meter about its uptick in white Catholic support in the Quinnipiac poll released yesterday. The poll had Obama ahead 51-42 among white Catholics, a turnaround from last month, when the Q poll gave McCain a 48-40 lead.

Makes you wonder if reports about Catholic defections from the Democratic Party in light of recent criticisms of Democratic politicians from some Catholic bishops are overblown and if Mark Silk and Beliefnet’s David Gibson are right in arguing that the salience of the abortion issue among Catholics has been exaggerated by the news media.

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k8

posted September 19, 2008 at 9:31 am


do you know that partial birth abortion involves killing a baby by drilling a hole in its skull after the rest of its still alive body has been born?
can you believe b.hussein obama has children and can still support this?
this is so sick.
DON’T DRINK THE KOOLAID !



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jjkans

posted September 19, 2008 at 9:52 am


Talk about using poll numbers to say whatever you want them to say. Notice how they don’t say if those polled were actual practicing Catholics, or the cafeteria “Catholics” that Democrats love to put in front of the camera. Its getting ridiculous how much the media (including Beliefnet) is trying to convince people that abortion isn’t such a big issue. Hello? Its not a matter of a “right to choose.” Its a matter of LIFE AND DEATH! pax



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Dr Ed

posted September 19, 2008 at 11:22 am


I heard some days ago that to get relevant and impartial news about this election one must get them from abroad.
So, I find this article “Obama Gains Big Among White Catholics´ most in line with the the statement above…as I am reading Gerald Warner’s article published today on the Telegraph (a UK blog). That paper would suggest Catholics will be asking themselves serious questions now that the Catholic Bishops (the only ones with a Teaching Authority in their Church) have spoken.
Here are some excerpts of that article:
“More, as promised, on Senator Joe Biden (why should Sarah Palin get all the coverage?). Remember, you read it here first: on September 11 this blog reported a mounting backlash from Catholic bishops against Biden, Barack Obama’s “Catholic” pro-abortion running mate. AT THAT TIME I ESTIMATED EIGHT BISHOPS had come out to denounce Biden; THE TOTAL IS NOW 55. Beyond that, Biden is being trashed across every state of the Union by Catholic newspapers, TV and radio stations, and blogs. It is a tsunami of rejection.
Last Saturday Time magazine asked: “Does Biden Have a Catholic Problem?” By Wednesday the issue had moved onto the front page of the New York Times. Joe the Jinx has blown it, big time. Biden has only himself to blame: he started this war, with his notoriously undisciplined mouth. He knew the dangers. Last August, Archbishop Raymond Burke, former Archbishop of St Louis and now Prefect of the Apostolic Segnatura in Rome, said communion should be denied to pro-abortion politicians “until they have reformed their lives”.
…Archbishop Chaput of Denver had already announced Biden should not receive communion because of his pro-abortion views. Defiantly, Biden took communion in his home parish in Delaware in late August. On September 2 the Bishop of Scranton, Pennsylvania (a crucial swing state) banned him from communion in his diocese. That is effective excommunication. Then came the crucial provocation. On NBC’s Meet the Press programme on September 7 Biden grossly misrepresented the Catholic Church’s teaching on abortion and audaciously cited St Thomas Aquinas in his own cause.”
So, from that point of view Catholic voters have now to consider this: America is a crisis, Washington is broken, and The Church has excommunicated Biden…Pelosi might follow. Why take a chance with a ticket that may end up braking the Country apart and on top of that risk the soul?
That sounds dramatic. Personally, I think most Catholics will not vote for Obama/Biden because of common sense. I think this because Catholics or not, once the Obama-media-hype is fading, we all recognize that in a time of crisis we need someone with experience (Obama will need training on the job), someone who has a track record of bipartisanship and could bring us back to the Clinton era (something Obama does not have), someone with a proven record of having put principle over party (again something Obama lacks), and someone who will Change things (not just talk about it).
Catholics, like the rest, have families to feed, jobs to keep, taxes to pay. In a time of crisis we need a doer, not just a talker.



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cpb

posted September 19, 2008 at 12:14 pm


Quick question. Are the Catholic Church leaders opposing a person’s right to chose or opposing abortion the same Catholic Church leaders who opposed the sex laws? Meaning are these the same people who opposed priests from having sexual relations that led into many children’s souls being taken by horrible acts of molestation by these “servants of god”? Times change and therefore some beliefs must change with it.
And in reference to the following statement by Dr. Ed In a time of crisis we need a doer, not just a talker. I ask you this;
If McCain isn’t just “talking”, than why does he continue to contradict himself and change sides on issues to make sure that’s what gets him cheers and votes. It’s on record as him choosing one side in the morning and by the evening once the people have disapproved he has changed sides. That doesn’t sound like experience to me, it sounds more like saying whatever will get him elected!



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Dr Ed

posted September 19, 2008 at 2:20 pm


I can’t speak for the Catholic Church. I am just a Pediatrician, a scientist with two doctorates in Developmental Biology. One who works every day to improve the lives of babies in utero.
All I can say is that the human embryo (from implantation onwards) is an individual of the Human Species. That is a statement of true biological facts, equivalent to stating that the Earth is NOT the center of the universe. You might not like to hear it, but the fact is here to stay.
If the Catholic Church excommunicates those who participate and/or promote abortion that is the Catholic Church’s manner of stating that ALL individuals are equal. They are also telling you that you can’t choose to kill innocent individuals and continue to live in communion with Christ. This is why Biden has been excommunicated (as per Gerald Warner’s article). This is why I think logical that Pelosi should follow.
I have given you a logical explanation for the Church’s actions on the subject of killing individuals in utero. However, I am not a Bishop. I am just a scientist.
I did not fail to notice you have some other issues with celibacy and child molestation. I did not quite follow the logic but I think you throw those in as a means to belittle the authority of the Catholic Church, Right? Well, we remain unimpressed: that is an old logical fallacy.
As a citizen, I reiterate that –in my views- Catholics (and anyone else) will use common sense look at the candidates (now that the celebrity effect is fading) and in this time of crisis vote for a person with experience, one willing to reach out across the aisle, one willing to take on his own party, and one who shed blood for this Country of ours. Between Obama and McCain there is only one meeting those criteria.

Note: as I type this it has become apparent that Obama is up to his neck in the old boys club schennanigans of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac. His current close advisors ran the institutions that caused the mess we are in, and Obama himself was on the take (ranking only second to another democrat)in this regard. This doesn’t look good for Obama, as his true persona (as a standar old boy’s club member) is being revealed.



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cyberusfaustus

posted September 19, 2008 at 3:02 pm


There seem to be many reasons to vote for Obama. Unfortunately, for any Christian (not just Catholic) who takes ethics seriously, there are many more grave reasons not to.
I have always felt that I could not trust a candidate who supports abortion because it reveals to me a fundamental cavalier attitude towards the value of human life. Will someone who views a child’s life as a burden to be discarded think honestly about the lives (on both sides) that might would be sacrificed to fight a war? Or what about the aging… will those draining our Social Security reserves become a burden which it is ok to choose to eliminate? It is a slippery slope. Either you revere and respect human life or you don’t.
There is another fundamental hypocrisy in any campaign which spouts “change” as its slogan, and yet wishes to ignore the root social problems of stigma against women and mothers by killing children. There is much talk about protecting women in case of rape or incest, yet only “1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child” leaving a whopping 93% performed due to social pressures (such as a perception that a baby would interfere with a woman’s professional aspirations or education). A candidate who really wanted to promote change, particularly one who proclaimed to be concerned about the role and position of women in society would not support the status quo which seems to want to negate the special role which women may bear as mothers, but rather would fight to change society to make it easier for women to fulfill this role which only they can.
In response to cpb, beliefs may change as new truths are revealed, but truths themselves do not change. The truth is that all lives are sacred and the innocent life of child ought to be protected. The truth is that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. Therefore if people do not wish to have a child they already have a choice – don’t have sex. Of course there is the 1% who have abortion for rape or incest – and while these cases are certainly horrible for the mother, should the situation be worsened by adding murder to the list of negative things in the woman’s life? Or perhaps, could the child be something positive to come out of an otherwise horrible sin – even if the mother does not keep or raise the child…
The bottom line is that this is a complex issue which is not solved by allowing or disallowing abortion, however simply allowing it ducks the problem much more than those disallowing it… because to disallow it forces us to address the underlying social injustices which have put us in this ethically unstable position in the first place.



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CatholicFirst

posted September 19, 2008 at 3:30 pm


Dr. Ed
“I did not fail to notice you have some other issues with celibacy and child molestation. I did not quite follow the logic but I think you throw those in as a means to belittle the authority of the Catholic Church, Right? Well, we remain unimpressed: that is an old logical fallacy.”
WELL SAID!
I think that emotional issues like abortion always bring out bad logic particularly Ad Hominem and Begging The Question.
They want to avoid the following at all cost:
Major premise: All human life should be protected.
Minor premise: The fetus is a human life.
Conclusion: The fetus should be protected.



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TEANY

posted September 19, 2008 at 7:17 pm


AS I SIT AT THIS COMPUTER THINKING OF WHAT I WANT TO SAY REGARDING ELECTIONS THIS YEAR.(PARTICULARILY THE PRESIDENTIAL)IT’S BEYOND HATRED; IT HAS BECOME EVIL. THE ARTICLES, “JOKES”, PICTURES IN REGARD TO GOD, JESUS CHRIST, ETC. IS BLASPHMY AGAINST A HOLY, JUST GOD. IF OTHER “RELIGIONS” TALK ABOUT GOD AS BEING A GOD OF ALL RELIGIONS, DON’T BE FOOLED; IF THAT RELIGION CLAIMS JESUS CHRIST ONLY AS A PROPHET LIKE MOHAMAD, IT IS FALSE. HOWEVER, EACH ONE OF US HAVE TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT OF WHAT MORAL AND ETHICAL CHOICES WE MAKE. I PRAY MANY TIMES A DAY THAT OUR COUNTRY, THE USA, WILL DISCERN WHO IS THE BEST CANDIDATE TO LEAD A NATION UNDER GOD’S CONTROL AND NOT FOR SELF-SERVING PURPOSES TO LEAD THIS NATION ASTRAY. WHAT A LEGACY TO LEAVE THE NEXT GENERATION.



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L. Roby

posted September 19, 2008 at 8:05 pm


Word is McCain is moving his stand on abortion. While Palin is staying where she always has, to the right, McCain is trying to meet the moderates in the middle of the road, because the independents and moderates are an important group in winning the election.
Ouch! I know what you guys are saying…seems like everyone’s halo is slipping, and I just can’t decide who my candidate will be because I’m one of those moderates.
But, I’m also Catholic.



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PETE

posted September 19, 2008 at 8:56 pm


So Teany, if the country chooses Barack Obama, does that mean that was God’s will, that we picked the best candidate to lead the nation? Or if that happens will you decide that an Obama victory must be a punishment from God, whereas if McCain is elected that is God’s will, and not a punishment?
It seems to me that you are projecting your own desires and prejudices onto God.
Also Catholics, I ask what I generally ask, which is if you are against abortion, why not in vitro fertilization, where many embryos are created and destroyed in order that a couple can have a child? I’m aware that many Catholics are against this as well, which they should be if they are morally consistent, but it’s not a national issue, and no politician is going to get excommunicated if he’s in favor of IVF. If the debate surrounding abortion were really about the preservation of human life, IVF would be a political liability as well. Why isn’t it? Possibly because the real issue of abortion is that the Catholic church wants to control the sex lives of individuals more than it cares about the lives of embryos. Condoms, abortions, birth control pills, they all have one thing in common, which is making sex less consequential, less sacred.
The Catholic church could care less about the AIDS epidemic in Africa, despite the fact that actual born human babies are dying of AIDS.



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TEANY

posted September 20, 2008 at 10:43 am


I GUESS I LEAN TOWARD MCAIN/PALIN. I AM NOT CATHOLIC. I DO VOTE FOR THE CANDIDATE THAT IS NOT AFRAID TO EXPRESS THE TRUE NATURE OF THEIR BELIEF AS A NATURAL PART OF THEIR PERSONAL LIFE. ONE THING I DON’T UNDERSTAND: WHERE DID THE “RIGHT” AND “LEFT” COME FROM IN OPINIONS? THEN THEIR IS A “FAR” RIGHT AND A “FAR” LEFT. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? IS THEIR AN “ABSOLUTE TRUTH” IN THE MORAL SYSTEM? IF SO, WHAT IS THE MORALITY BASED ON? IF “REALATIVEISM” AND “HUMANISTIC” VIEWS ARE THE “NORM”, WHAT IS “TRUTH”? BARACK OBAMA DOES USE THE WORD “CHRISTIAN” IN SOME OF HIS SPEECHES, HOWEVER, TYPICALLY, IF YOU’RE FAITH IS NOT BUILT ON JESUS CHRIST AND HIM ONLY, FOLLWOING GOOD WORKS, YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN. THAT IS NOT MY WORDS, BUT FROM A BOOK (BIBLE)THAT IS TRUTH. IF YOU HAVE NOT READ IT, I CHALLENGE YOU TO DO SO. I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH LEARNING MUCH IN REGARD TO THE HUMANISTIC DOCTRINE; WHICH IS A “CHANGE AGENT” FOR SOCIETY: NEA, PUBLIC SCHOOL DOCTRINE, IN UNIVERAL CHURCHES, EVEN IN CONVENTS TO NAME JUST A FEW. THIS IS IMPLEMENTED IN SUCH A WAY THAT IS, AS THE STORY GOES: THE FROG BEING PUT INTO A POT WITH COOL SET ON A STOVE AND TURN THE HEAT UP EVER SO SLOWLY AND WHAM! THE FROG’S LIFE IS TAKEN FROM HIM. I HAVE ALSO TESTIFIED BEFORE THE VFW REGARDING ANTI-WAR MATERIALS GIVEN IN A BIOLOGY CLASS, NON-THE-LESS THAT WAS IN OUR SONS (4) CLASSES. ENOUGH SAID ON THAT ISSUE.
LIES CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED. EITHER IT’S TRUTH OR LIES; THERE IS NO ROOM FOR THE “GREY” AREA.
I WAIT TO HEAR FROM ANYONE THAT CAN RE-DEFINE TRUTH. SEE YA
TEANY



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Dr. Ed

posted September 20, 2008 at 1:58 pm


Dear PETE,
You wrote “The Catholic church could care less about the AIDS epidemic in Africa “.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
While you and I enjoy the comforts of America, thousands of Catholics (Lay people, Sisters, Friars, Priests and Bishops) work every day helping the poor and the afflicted in Africa (and everywhere…including the USA).
For decades, these men and women work under conditions you couldn’t tolerate even for a weekend.
Your statement was untruthful, cruel and unfair.
You should spend a bit educating yourself on a subject before you write things that may come back to embarrass you.
There are many organizations you could check on the Net…I am just going to give you one: it is about the work by Catholic Relief Services (CRS). This link may help you get to your knees and thank God for these holy men and women.
http://crs.org/hiv-aids/



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scruffy

posted September 20, 2008 at 3:25 pm


The Roman Catholic Church is against in vitro fertilization and all forms of artificial birth control. They believe in “God’s Way or no way.”
That is why many Catholics ignore the church rhetoric and do their own thing. That is also why abortion is not an issue with most Catholics, they are more concerned with how they and their neighbors are getting on than with strict observance of “Church Law”.
LIjke many of us Americans, they are voting with their mind and hearts rather than with their emotions. They are chosing based on the issues and many will vote for McCain and many will vote for Obama. Live with it.



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Dr. Ed

posted September 20, 2008 at 6:37 pm


I am done with euphemisms…Abortion is the willful killing of a defenseless innocent individual.
As a scientist I don’t understand why the opposition to such horrid act has to be referenced by any religious belief. In fact I think that all civilized people should condemn such a practice: It is a matter of Human Rights. Either ALL individuals are equal, or some are ‘more equal’ than others.
But that is just my opinion…Church Law or not Church Law.



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Margaret

posted September 21, 2008 at 10:04 pm


Dr. Ed,
I understand your opposition to abortion. Many people oppose abortion but feel that there is no realistic way to criminalize it. The bottom line is that you or the government cannot make this very difficult personal decision for all women. A majority of Americans agree with this position. The best we can do is make abortion extremely rare and safe.



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God-o-Meter

posted September 22, 2008 at 8:23 am


L. Roby writes:

Word is McCain is moving his stand on abortion. While Palin is staying where she always has, to the right, McCain is trying to meet the moderates in the middle of the road, because the independents and moderates are an important group in winning the election.

It doesn’t appear that McCain is moving his stand on abortion–he’s been adamantly pro-life for decades and when asked about it at the Saddleback Civil Forum last month said that embryos are entitled to human rights at conception.
What’s interesting, though, is that McCain is the Republican nominee today partly because Republican pro-choicers supported him in the primaries, when pro-life voters were breaking for Romney/Huckabee/Thompson, etc. The pro-choice put McCain over the top in a handful of primary states. It’s not that McCain is moderate on the life issues, it’s that many voters think he is.



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CatholicFirst

posted September 22, 2008 at 4:26 pm


PETE: The Catholic Church has an excellant record caring for AIDS patients around the world. Try again.



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Dr. Ed

posted September 22, 2008 at 8:16 pm


Dear Margaret,
Dear Margaret,
It all depends on whether we as a civilized society believe that ALL individuals are equal.
We could stop abortion on the basis that it is barbaric. This would not be different than what was done before when in January 1865, Congress sent to the state legislatures for ratification what became the Thirteenth Amendment, banning slavery in all U.S. states and territories.
Yet again, while people keep repeating Planned Parenthood mantras (idiotic concoctions suggesting the existence of inhuman human individuals) and the Press keeps addressing this a religion issue, the much necessary dialog will not take place. Innocent individuals will continue being killed.
It goes back to you and I…we must become the change the Word needs.
My job is to bring the scientific facts to the table.



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cyberusfaustus

posted September 23, 2008 at 1:57 pm


in re. scruffy
“That is why many Catholics ignore the church rhetoric and do their own thing. That is also why abortion is not an issue with most Catholics, they are more concerned with how they and their neighbors are getting on than with strict observance of “Church Law”.”
In simple terms, any religion or Church is a human organization. Sort of a club made up of people who agree on set of beliefs about reality and how they should live their lives in light of those beliefs. Membership is voluntary, however, one can only really be said to be a member if one agrees to the beliefs of the ‘club’. Otherwise to say that they belong to a particular religion and yet do not believe what that religion teaches/agrees upon is meaningless.
For someone to say they are Catholic but to disagree on a fundamental teaching of the Church is as much as to say that they are not Catholic but merely using the affiliation for some sort of other social benefit. Much like politicians who say they are Catholic and yet vote contrary to the Church’s teachings. There is a word for this. In the Catholic church we say that when one does not believe in or acts in such a way as to signify disagreeance with a fundamental belief (one of the core beliefs all Catholics say they agree with when they join), that person has Excommunicated themselves from the Church… and as such can not properly be called Catholic. It is basically a recognition of the fact that by a person’s words or deeds that this person no longer wants to belong to the ‘club’.
What really ticks me off is when I hear/read about ‘Catholic’ support for a candidate which would tacitly imply that the supporter in question was not really a Catholic any more. Such polls and statistics are fundamentally misleading. It would be equivalent to me (a white, male Cahtolic) telling a pollster that I was a middle-easter, female muslim and the pollster representing my opinion as valid muslim concensus. It is a lie.
I know this may seem harsh, but then again, no one is forcing these people to stay Catholic. You simply cannot have it both ways. Either you are a Catholic because you believe and follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, or you are not.
One nice thing in the Church as opposed to other ‘clubs’ is that one can become a member again if they are willing to agree once again to the fundamentals and make amends for any damage their previous disbelief may have caused… pretty forgiving if you ask me… but then, that is what Christ taught us and the Church continues to teach… Love and Forgiveness.



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teany

posted September 25, 2008 at 6:45 pm


Mr. Obama is trying very hard to reach different “religions” for his gain. What I’ve seen in our heavy populated Catholic community is: if their local priest has a certain political view, many members are looking to him for the direction their vote should go. Too many catholics look at their priests as a god, without doing their own research and discern what is their own preference or conscience. This is not an attack on priests or catholics as an observation in our geographic localition.
If Mr. Obama is so “religious”, why would “his camp” or he speak so evil regarding others that oppose him and his philosophy? Any person who would attend church services for several years that has a man calling himself a “minister” with the sewer mouth and hatred he delivers should behove us to take a second/third/fourth look at a presidential candidate so closely attached should even have such a thing as a “god o-meter”.
I have been watching very close if the Republican camp attacks the muslim belief that Obama has………I haven’t seen any. Believing in a god is different than believing in the one true God and His Son, Jesus Christ. Even satan believes in God. Who ever thought up this “god-0-meter” should research more.



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carly

posted September 26, 2008 at 4:03 pm


@teany
“I have been watching very close if the Republican camp attacks the muslim belief that Obama has………I haven’t seen any”
That’s because Barack Obama doesn’t have a “muslim belief”. Nice try but the whole “Barack Obama is a muslim” think isn’t working. That’s why he’s winning.



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teany

posted September 26, 2008 at 5:19 pm


Carly,
Thanks for writing back. I would like you to comment on the rest of the topics I had written about, in addition to the the muslim association.



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