God-O-Meter

God-O-Meter


Rick Warren to God-o-Meter: Obama, Dems Can’t Just Talk Faith

posted by dgilgoff

warrenobamamccain.jpgIn an interview with God-o-Meter on the day after his Saddleback Civil Forum with John McCain and Barack Obama, Rev. Rick Warren sounded pretty dubious about Barack Obama’s and the Democrats’ chances of making inroads among evangelicals. The full interview will run Monday on Beliefnet. Here’s a preview:
Before last night, McCain had been widely criticized by Christian activists for keeping mum about his faith and about values issues like abortion and marriage Last night seemed to change that. How much headway did McCain make among skeptical evangelicals?
I’m a pastor, I’m not a prophet, so I would not predict how evangelicals are going to vote. I will tell you they’re not monolith. That’s a big myth. They’re going to make up their minds based on the hierarchy of their values. For many evangelicals, of course, if they believe that life begins at conception, that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people. If they think that life begins at conception, then that means that there are 40 million Americans who are not here [because they were aborted] that could have voted. They would call that a holocaust and for them it would like if I’m Jewish and a Holocaust denier is running for office. I don’t care how right he is on everything else, it’s a deal breaker for me. I’m not going to vote for a Holocaust denier…
It all depends on the hierarchy of their worldview of what matters most to them. My gut reaction when it was over was that Obama will pick up probably some younger votes and McCain will probably pick up some older votes and it might come down to which group winds up showing up that the polls.
The Democrats recently added language to their party platform that they say is aimed at reducing demand for abortion. Do you think it represents a significant step toward a pro-life position?
It is a step, there’s no doubt about that. I’ve been getting a lot of feedback on it. I was out of the country and people starting writing me about it. The general perception was ‘Too little too late–window dressing”. I’m not saying I would say this, because I haven’t even read it, but what I was hearing form people was that [Democrats] were saying ‘It’s OK to be pro-life and be a Democrat now. In other words, ‘You can join us. We’re not changing our firm commitment to Roe v. Wade, but you can now join us.’ Well, for a person who thinks that abortion is taking a life, I’m sure that’s not going to be very satisfactory to most of those people. And to put it in right at the last minute at the end of a campaign, there was some question about that: Why are they doing this?
When you asked Obama about when life begins, he punted, saying ‘it’s above my pay grade.’ Should someone running for the highest office in the land have a clear answer to that, or is that kind of ambivalence acceptable?
No. I think he needed to be more specific on that. I happen to disagree with Barack on that. Like I said, he’s a friend. But to me, I would not want to die and get before God one day and go, ‘Oh, sorry, I didn’t take the time to figure out’ because if I was wrong then it had severe implications to my leadership if I had the ability to do something about it. He should either say, ‘No scientifically, I do not believe it’s a human being until X’ or whatever it is or to say, ‘Yes, I believe it is a human being at X point,’ whether it’s conception or anything else. But to just say ‘I don’t know’ on the most divisive issue in America is not a clear enough answer for me.
That’s why to say that evangelicals are a monolith is a myth, but the other thing is that you’ve been hearing a lot of the press talk about ‘Well, evangelicals are changing, they’re now interested in poverty and disease and illiteracy, and all the stuff I’ve been talking about for five years now. And I have been seeding that into the evangelical movement and it’s getting picked up and a lot of people are talking about doing humanitarian efforts. But I really think it’s wishful thinking on a lot of people who think they’re going to drop the other issues. They’re not leaving pro-life, I’m just trying to expand the agenda….
If an evangelical really believes that the Bible is literal–in other word in Psalm 139 God says ‘I formed you in your mother’s womb and before you were born I planned every day of your life,’ if they believe that’s literally true, then they can’t just walk away from that. They can add other issues, but they can’t walk away from the belief that at conception God planned that child and to abort it would be to short circuit the purpose.
Then it sounds like it would be unconscionable for an evangelical to vote for a pro-choice candidate like Obama.
Well, we’re going to see what happens. All I can say is you’ll see what happens. This is why there’s a difference between simply talking the lingo… after the 2004 election the Democratic pundits were saying ‘The Democrats lost in ’04 because they didn’t talk the language of faith.’ And actually that’s kind of, not paternalistic, but it’s talking down. It’s basically saying ‘If you just get the right words, then they’ll think you’ve got the lingo.’ And just because a person can say ‘God’ and ‘Jesus’ and ‘salvation’ and whatever doesn’t mean they have a worldview. And people want to know what do they believe, not just their personal faith. It’s just like how many different beliefs do Jews and Christians have and still call themselves Christians or Jews? It’s all over the spectrum.
Some Obama supporters are claiming that McCain saw the questions before the forum began, giving him a leg up on Obama.
They’re dead wrong. That’s just sour grapes. They both did fantastically well. The only question he knew, I gave them the first question and I was changing the questions within an hour [before the forum began.] I talked to both of them a week before the debate and told them all the themes. I talked personally to John McCain and I talked personally to Barack Obama. I said, ‘We’ll talk about leadership, talk about the roles of government,’ I said I’d probably have a question about climate change, probably a question on the courts. I didn’t say, ‘I’m going to ask which Supreme Court justice would you not [nominate]. They were clearly not prepared for that.
A source at the debate tells me that McCain had access to some communications devices in the few minutes before he went on stage with you and that there was a monitor in his green room, in violation of the debate rules.
That’s absolutely a lie, absolutely a lie. That room was totally free, with no monitors–a flat out lie.
UPDATE: The full interview is now live on Beliefnet.


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hootie1fan

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:09 am


Oh! Democrats can talk faith. We just prefer to have that discussion with God.



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hootie1fan

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:11 am


Beside after all the hypocricy and abuse of the name of God, do we really need more discussion of religion to take place in front of television cameras or should we let a candidate’s record speak for itself?



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hootie1fan

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:22 am


A good Christian is not a title or a campaign speech. A good Christian is how one lives their life. A good Christian doesn’t have to tell the world in order to get votes. It’s something that is obvious in those who truly live their life that way.



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jp

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:14 am


After Obama claimed sinning was “being out of line with his values” the proper question for him would be to ask him if he thinks he is god? and why morality has a fixed point based on what his ‘values’ are?



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MM

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:24 am


Rick Warren is a good man. I’m not evangelical (I’m Roman Catholic), nor am I a follower of his, but he’s a good man and an instrument of our Creator.



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Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:26 am


“It’s something that is obvious in those who truly live their life that way.”
Indeed. So when you’re out there defending the disposal of human life because it’s an inconvenience to your sex life, that’s a pretty obvious marker of where your values are.
Barak Obama favors late-term abortions, killing what are undeniably viable babies. That’s where his values are, and that’s where the majority of the Democratic party’s values are.
And God knows it.



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Rick

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:32 am


“Rev. Rick Warren sounded pretty dubious about Barack Obama’s and the Democrats’ chances of making inroads among evangelicals”
What was he expecting? Why was he surprised? Given the fact that Obama is a Marxist(Note to the Reverend : Marxists cannot be Christian Reverend sorry, its against there rules)
You might want to pick up a copy of the Communist Manifesto. Any of the folks who helped you put together the questions for the debate can lend you a copy.



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Don Singleton

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:36 am


As I indicated here McCain’s only mistake was implying we can defeat evil. We should do everything we can to defeat it, but “Evil” will not be defeated until reinforcements arrive, in the form of “Good” arriving on a white horse, coming down on a cloud.



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Mark Wilson

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:36 am


“Barak Obama favors late-term abortions”
It’s worse than that. Obama worked to help kill a bill in the Illinoise senate that would have required hospitals to provide medical care to infants who survived an abortion attempt.
Obama apparently feels that “late term” includes the first few hours after birth.



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Billy Bob

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:37 am


I have been getting reports that McCain was not in the Church up to 30-40 minutes before Obama’s interview ended. In other words, the Cone Of Silence was partially in his Motorcade.
If so, that is just so wrong on both the McCain’s camp side for not offering a disclaimer and the Church’s side for not telling all before McCain’s matter of fact, to the point, one word answers – HINT. We should have checked his coffee cup for the answers as well. McCain did drink a bit more from his cup than Obama.
That to me, says much more about character today as opposed to character at a earlier time in McCain’s life. When a pass president said he did not have sex with that woman, McCain now says I did not peek at the questions. Well if the rules were followed, we would not have to wonder if he did.
If these reports are not true, then McCain still missed the boat for I heard great war stories but am still not seeing how faith works today in his daily life.



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Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:56 am


“Peek at the questions” Good grief.
He didn’t need to peek at the questions. They were all no-brainers.
Guess what? Rick Warren might ask you about your stance on abortion, Osama bin Laden and Iranian nukes. Wow, who could have ever guessed that?!?
He answered quickly and simply because he knows what he believes in and isn’t trying to hide anything. Obama tap-dances because he know he’d better damn well NOT answer those questions truthfully.



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DFP

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:57 am


I was very apprehensive about the forum beforehand, but Rev. Warren did a EXCELLENT job. What Rev. Warren accomplished was exactly what our political process needed. CONGRATULATIONS to him and everyone at Saddleback.
I am also happy to see Rev. Warren put to rest the false “McCain-heard-the-questions” rumors.
Great interview, Dan!
God bless.



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hootie1fan

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:59 am


If the Democrats can’t talk faith then it’s the Republicans who can’t live it.



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Gekkobear

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:17 am


Of course McCain cheated. He somehow went out and got all those years of experience at politics, and public speaking, and having interviews. Forming opinions, and taking stances in the Senate, and persuading others to his views.
If he didn’t unfairly have that experience advantage he wouldn’t have done better than Obama in this debate. But unfortunately someone let McCain have decades of relevant life experience, while Obama has been in politics for just a short time, and most of that in State politics, or campaigning with prepared speeches and a teleprompter.
Voting “present” in state politics doesn’t prepare you for tough questions. Reading prepared speeches doesn’t help much either.
Definitely McCain had the unfair advantage here, and it seems he’s going to keep that “experience” advantage right up until the election. If I were the Obama campaign I’d be mad as hell too that the playing field isn’t more level and that the Republicans didn’t run an inexperienced candidate to keep things fair.
Damn Republicans, running a better candidate with more experience. How dare they…



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Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:18 am


“If the Democrats can’t talk faith then it’s the Republicans who can’t live it.”
Oh yeah? Well you’re a big stinky and your mama is a big stinky and your daddy is a big stinky, too.



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hootie1fan

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:29 am


Damn Republicans, running a better candidate with more experience. How dare they…
——————
There’s a first time for everything



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Rhonda

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:32 am


Congratulations to Rev Warren and all at Saddleback Church for the wonderful Saturday night civil forum. I am not suprised at the fault finding mission by the MSM. Rev Warren and your church made journalists look “real” bad, so get ready for the backdraft coming your way! Good job, to all. You folks proved people can hold a discussion like this and not be ugly. Well at least till the MSM spinners got involved. thank-you.



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Jesse

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:40 am


Did Rick Warren not understand that when Obama said ‘above his pay grade’, he meant God? Then again why is your entire focus on that one issue? While I am very opposed to abortion I also remember Jesus’ commandment to ‘feed my sheep’. Which nominee and party is more likely to do that?



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Steady

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:50 am


Barry is a FRAUD!! The more questions asked of him, the more people realize it. Thank GOD fo that or we could have a real disaster in the White House come next year. Barry would make Jimma Carter seem like Abe Lincoln!!!



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Marc

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:54 am


Did Rick Warren not understand that when Obama said ‘above his pay grade’, he meant God? Then again why is your entire focus on that one issue? While I am very opposed to abortion I also remember Jesus’ commandment to ‘feed my sheep’. Which nominee and party is more likely to do that?

Did Jesse not understand that Jesus’ commandment to ‘feed my sheep’ is spiritual, and has nothing to do with the government at all?



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J.R.

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:56 am


“Above my pay grade” is a term used in the military when you want to buck it up the chain of command.
Since the o has no military experience he must have picked up the phrase,however as Commander in Chief the buck stops at his desk. God, I think makes one responsible for actions,not shoving them up the chain.
The kid is unseasoned and a not ready to “Lead from the Front”
“We have met the enemy and he is it”.
Sorry Pogo.
J.R.



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Januah

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:58 am


Did McCain address the questions from faith perspective? I think the forum was a free advertisement for John McCain. I don’t know how to rate the forum as there were no follow up questions to tell whether McCain was just answering the questions like he was auditioning or being interviewed for a position. Was he being truthful?
With regards to the following assertion “If an evangelical really believes that the Bible is literal–in other word in Psalm 139 God says ‘I formed you in your mother’s womb and before you were born I planned every day of your life,’ if they believe that’s literally true, then they can’t just walk away from that.”
Did God abort the children who are miscarried everyday of the year? My mum tried so hard to have children but lost a few children due to miscarriage before she had me. I hate abortions but I don’t want that to be the focus of everything about being a follower of Christ. Feed the starving, cloth the naked, care for the sick. There are more people who have been born and neglected. Take for example all the blacks who were enslaved and murdered on the earth after they were born. Who spoke up for the degradation and hardship they endured, which some still do. I repeat I hate abortions but life is not all about abortions. Rather put structures in place that will prevent abortion. Education, Education, Education and of course other structures like adoption and help for those who wish to adopt.



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Priscilla

posted August 18, 2008 at 12:00 pm


“Did Rick Warren not understand that when Obama said ‘above his pay grade’, he meant God?”
Well, of course he did – just that Obama does not have the courage of his convictions, and the political bravery to say what he believes, which apparently is that life does not begin until the cord is cut, and even then, the child should be left to die if it is a survivor of a failed late term abortion.
In my opinion, the presidency is above Obama’a pay grade if he cannot articulate a clear position on this issue.



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Apple

posted August 18, 2008 at 12:01 pm


I can not beleive that the silly media and pundintry in this nation did not understand that is exactly what he meant.
No one knows the answer to that question. Only GOD and I give Obama credit for being humble and honest to admit he does not know the answer.
The only thing that is unnaceptable is the fact that Rick Warren allowed McCain to cheat and lie and Rick Warren covered up for him as he told the audience that McCain was in a “cone of silence”
Rick Warren has lost all credibility with many of those in the faith community for playing a political hack for McCain.



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Laura

posted August 18, 2008 at 12:02 pm


To Jesse: While I am all for the Biblical adage of helping those who cannot help themselves, I cannot apply it to those who WILL not help themselves. The Bible clearly teaches that the man who chooses not to care for his own is “worse than an infidel”. (I think that’s right…I can’t access my Bible right now.) I am for the nominee and party that is more likely to give us the freedoms to help ourselves instead of giving us entitlement after entitlement that teach us dependence. Which nominee and party is more likely to do THAT?



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Teresa

posted August 18, 2008 at 12:04 pm


Jesse, he may have meant God, but that didn’t answer the question. You either believe life begins at conception or you don’t. How else would you be able to say “I don’t think an unborn child is a human being, so I have no problem terminating ‘it’”. If you believe an unborn child is a living being at conception, then you should believe it to be murder if you choose to abort the baby. I live in Illinois; we all know Obama’s true feelings about unborn babies, and even aborted babies born alive, if a mother doesn’t want it. He said he wouldn’t want his daughters punished with a baby if they have an unwanted pregnancy. He didn’t mention the mother’s health when he said this. I saw the video of his speech on the Internet and I saved it to my computer so if anyone tells me he never said this I can send them the proof. How can a true Christian support a baby murderer?



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Harry Schell

posted August 18, 2008 at 12:05 pm


Obama is evasive when he can be, votes “present” and flip-flops because he knows he needs to conceal his real thoughts, IMO.
A lot has been written about “rookie mistakes”, lack of experience, etc.
However, decisions he has taken, associations he has sought and continued for decades (Wright, Ayres et. al.), ignoring the futile results of his “community activism” while advocating more of the same, indicates he knows what he is thinking, which playbook he is reading from. The pattern is well-reasearched, most completely in “Obama’s Lost Years” in the Weekly Standard.
He knows he can’t sell what he is, and that Michelle is a better window on him than his current statements.
He is too clever by half, unaware that concealment and iconography, cheering Germans waiting for a rock band, are reasons not to elect a man with his finger on nukes.
McCain’s triumph at Saddleback is a surprise to those who emote rather than think about Obama, but who listened and thought about the contrast.



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Cheap Seats in Mpls

posted August 18, 2008 at 12:28 pm


I believe Rick Warren when he stated that McCain was in a silent room without monitors. McCain has always been feisty and quick with his answers since he has EXPERIENCE and KNOWS something about politics. It isn’t a coincidence that Obama does not do well in these “off the cuff” or “thinking for yourself” venues for debate. Obama cannot put together more than a few words without hemming and hawing and then incomplete sentences. Obama’s mindset seems to be, baffle them with just enough pauses to make people think he’s actually thinking, when in reality, he JUST DOESN’T KNOW. It’s become way to obvious that the first letter in Obama’s name is not really an o but a -0- as in zero knowledge and experience. So those of you that want change, you’ll get it alright. From experience to zip experience. Some change.



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Apple

posted August 18, 2008 at 12:28 pm


Jesse, he may have meant God, but that didn’t answer the question. You either believe life begins at conception or you don’t.
You can “beleive” what you would like to beleive. But knowing it is a fact is a whole nother story.
If that is what you are looking for in a POTUS then by all means vote for the man who “beleives” what you beleive, if you respect a man who is honest & humble enough to admit that he does not know, then vote that way.



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Republican4life

posted August 18, 2008 at 12:36 pm


I attended Saddleback on Saturday and was more impressed by Obama’s thoughtful answers than McCain’s crowd pleasing campaign rhetoric. Even though I find it difficult to trust McCain with his later day conversion to conservative and evangelical issues, many in attendance heard what they wanted to hear and were pleased with McCains simplistic answers to Rick Warrens questions. I found McCains unabashed support for Bush’s Irag War policy and his Petraeus answer inconsistent with his pro-life position. Even though I cannot find agreement with Obama on some key issues, I think he is our best hope for the future of this country.



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Drider

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:25 pm


R4L, I have to disagree on Obama’s thoughtful answers.
Obama came into this race with the mantra of change,not politics as usual etc…etc.
He came off, in my humble opinion exactly like the same old politican with answsers that were evasive and dishonest to try to fit the mold that he believes we wanted to see.
Example:
Obama asked about his greatest moral faliure and he mentions his decsion in going against the Iraq war.
1.If he was implying that he voted against the war…he wasnt in office at the time.
2.When he DID vote on war funding once in office…he voted for funding and wasnt against it.
Obama was asked if and what he did in going against his party.
He mentions he went against his party in helping Mcain on the passing of campain financing, in which he gave assurances to Mcain in helping to get it passed and in the end backed out and betrayed Mcain.
Soo that was not an example of gong against his party being he didnt when it came down to brass tax.
Obama on when he thought life begins.
Nothing more to be said here, his answer was absolutley unacceptable.
If he was trying to come across as humble, he failed…he came across to me as trying to be slick.
Mcains positions and responces seemed absolutley scincere and to a surprising degree.
I am one of those who have been irritated with some of Mcains past positions and mischief and that being saide, after seeing both of them togehter…there was only one leader on that stage and it was Mcain.
The forum, I thought was brilliant and most certainly did give the Americans a crystal clear view of both candidates and hope the feel, how they deal with straight questions and how they truley…..are.
Kudos Mr. Warren for a spectacular job.



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Paul, seeking wisdom.

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:34 pm


My God, why is it that the only question anybody has is about abortion? The GOP did nothing in the six years they had the power of all three branches of Government.
I am pro-life but being a Christian is not just about being pro-life and the Republicans have FAILED in EVERY aspect of Christian endeavor to solve the problems of Americans in a CHRITIAN MANNER Wake up people, if McCain pick Tom Ridge as his running mate, he will prove once again that the Republicans don’t give a hoot about the sanctity of life but just want to sweet talk you into voting for their god, Corperate Money.
Rick Warren’s questions were good questions but he failed to ask questions that reflect the values of people who have issues with the lack of trust in our leadership. He pandered to the Religious Right and failed to address Mainstream America. His questions were designed to “trip up” Obama and in that area he failed. Obama walked into the lion den and came out with minor scratches.
McCain did not impress me with his stories because his values are going to do nothing to improve the wounded Americans who are struggling today. In fact he offered solutions that have failed before and will fail again.
God-O-Meter’s questions to Rick Warren feed on the hype that Christians only care about abortion. I care about many things that the Republicans have failed to address. Abortion is only one, I will not vote for a president that promises only one thing. Bush did that and then did nothing. No laws were passed and no court has ruled on Wade vs. Roe. Social reforms have gone nowhere, the environment is no better, Corporate America is still being bailed out of jams they created and the victims of corporate scams are still not being helped. More jobs are lost to overseas and Foreign powers are still buying up American business. And China is funding our war debt while supplying Iran with weapons.
This is the legacy of the “Pro-life” government we have had for the last eight years. Find another issue to pursue, please. Address the problems that face America and get off this bucking horse that nobody wants to tame.



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:35 pm


Now I know that Rick Warren stacked his deck AGAINST Obama long before this so called debate. Warrens mind was made up to favor McCain, because he already knew how the conception question would be answered by both candidates…..Rick Warren will have to answer for deceiving his so called friend Obama in order to make McCain look better…in front of Ricks brainwashed congregation who think like RICK….this is no more than a CULT.
RICK WARREN IS A FRAUD and so is MCBUSH… RICK IS SUPPORTING a man who will put us into more LYING WARS…I hope Rick has an answer for HIS god.



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CR

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:38 pm


Abortion is all that matters to some…. it must be nice for that to be your only concern. The rest of us have to deal with the rest of the world.



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Froglady

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:38 pm


When does a person become a person? When does the soul enter the body? Is it at the point of conception when the blastocyst is just a tiny pinpoint of cells? When the blastocyst becomes an embryo? When the embryo becomes a fetus? When the fetus is viable outside the womb? When the actual birth happens? I don’t know. And to me, the soul is the key issue.
However, since no one on earth at this time can say for sure when the body receives a soul, I’ve looked to medical science to help me determine when the being in a woman’s womb should be left alone. Medical science says that the nerves appear at around 40 days (a biblical time, in my opinion). Up until that point, the embryo cannot feel pain.
So, in my opinion, up until that point, the pain of people who are definitely alive and have souls should be the priority. This means that using blastocysts that would be discarded by fertility clinics for stem cell research should be done in the hopes of alleviating pain and suffering from humans with Parkinsons or diabetes or any number of other debilitating diseases. And, a woman considering an abortion is usually in some sort of mental pain. She’s been raped or she’s already got so many children she can’t cope with having another one. Or like my daughter (who’s keeping the baby, by the the way), she was very diligent about birth control, but she happened to be the 1 in 100 that the birth control failed on. With pregnancy tests so accurate now that a woman can tell if she’s pregnant even before missing a period, it should be easy to have a safe, legal abortion well before the 40 days are past.
I know this is a compromise and neither side seems to be willing to compromise, but, after prayerful consideration, it feels right to me.



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Amy J. H.

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:40 pm


I don’t agree with Senator McCain on everything but when I heard, in the commentary on this Saddleback forum, that he had bluntly and clearly declared his position that one’s rights begin at conception – I was overjoyed.
To me, as a young adult and a Christian, it seems that one’s perspective on life – influences every other perspective you have on every other issue.
Sen McCain maybe hasn’t been with “us” as conservatives always on all the issues — but life being the bedrock of our moral framework as individuals, I feel we have no other choice than to support McCain. Our only other choice is a man who does not even know where he stands on the issue of life — which gives me an opinion that his foundation is very shaky and his lens on life very cloudy. And if he were elected leader of the free world — our house could come crumbling down around us. Without valuing the beginning of and sacredness of life — there is no valuing life itself, in the moment we live it.



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johnosahon

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:40 pm


yes, Warren we need those 40 millions babies to die in Iraq, iran, north korea and russia war that mccain (A.K.A. addicted to war) wants to fight.
the rest can be neglected in the katrina flood, prison or better yet mudered with a death sentence.



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Raenell

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:48 pm


Rick Warren was interviewed by CNN and showed surprise that McCain was not in the Church during the 1st half hour. He was in the motorcade on the way. I watched the forum as well and I caught myself thinking that McCain knew the questions in advance.
Additionally, there are posts that give reference to his POW stories. I, in no way, am trying to discredit McCain’s service. However, I take issue with some of his accounts.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/08/the-ever-changing-crossinthedi.html
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsider/2008/08/is-mccain-now-copying-solzheni.html
I can’t help but feel as if McCain is still trying to play up to voters rather than being straight with us.



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RobertSeattle

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:52 pm


For the first 1960 years of Chrisitanity, life began with the first breath (it’s in the scriptures) – but now it means when a sperm hacks its way into an egg – half of which nature aborts naturally. I’m half expecting it to mean when you ask the person out for a date in a few decades….



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Kevin the Christian

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:54 pm


I’m a devout Christian and my love for Christ and God will not allow me to love my country any longer. You see…my country does business with people and countries that are not Christians and don’t respect my Christian values. China and Russia are pretty much Godless. The Islamic countries are even more Godless and antagonistic to Christians. It gets worse when you expand beyond those borders. I’m ashamed that my country and my fellow Christians won’t reject the goods and services that these heathen provide. I feel that when I go before God, he will ask me why I didn’t stand up against these heathens. Why must I be part of the group that sends over $700billion to the islamic world so I can drive my car. I feel like, as Christians, we should cleanse ourselves of these people and business transactions. I mean, more souls have been lost to these ‘false faiths’ than all the holocausts of the world combine. Us Christians should reject them and find a new way. That’s why I believe using solar and wind power to light our churches and Christian homes is the way of God. I hope my fellow Christians can join me in this endeavor.
So I’m staying home on election day. Staying home because neither of these candidates are pristine. Neither of these candidates will lead my soul and the souls of my dear family to the light. Instead I will spend the day with my pastor and pray that my Christian friends will move away from the lure of politics and big money, and move back to church, faith, family, and Jesus…and the values that make all of them the strongest reason for our time here on earth.
God bless



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Existenz

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:54 pm


So John McCain and Rick Warren somehow know exactly when life begins. I thought only God knew the answer to that? Why should Obama pretend to know God’s secrets?
And if life begins at conception, then doesn’t McCain’s stem cell position mean that he is in favor of destroying millions of lives? Shouldn’t he advocate an end to invitro fertilization, since that creates millions of lives that are not brought to term?
Warren is trying to cover for McCain, that’s fine. But he never dug into McCain’s infidelity, his many flip-flops on issues of faith, and his violation of the rules regarding the “cone of silence”. McCain didn’t arrive at the forum until 30 minutes in, with his staff prepping him on the questions.
If Warren wants four more years of Bush-style policies that are destroying this country, go for it. But I’m tired of war and tired of recession. Vote Obama and let’s move on from this terrible Republican leadership.



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David

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:59 pm


The Forum was well done. It would have been much better if not scheduled during the Olympic Games. Rick did an excellent job in wording the questions to illicit good and accurate information while not seeking to illicit a gaff.
My voting decision was made months ago. I did not watch in an effort make that decision. I was interested in the format and how candidate would fare.
I was truly amazed that Senator Obama hedged on the life/human rights question. Perhaps that has some value above giving a disingenuous answer. However, when formulating policy and the law of the land you must at least have an opinion. This is one of the places I yearned for a follow-up question or a clarification question since the answer was a dodge.
Politicians have a tendency to treat we the voters as morons. Senator Obama’s response is illustrative of that. He assumes that he should be given the benefit of the doubt when he refuses to provide an explicit, clear-cut answer. Whe running for President of the USA, you don’t have that luxury.
When Senator Obama was in the Illinois legislator he provided the answer to the right-to-life question. He voted in favor of legislation that made it legal to kill a baby who managed to survive an attemptted abortion. That speaks louder than any carefully worded, nuanced answer he may give to a direct question.



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James

posted August 18, 2008 at 1:59 pm


Everyone needs to remember that the essence of Barack’s Christian perspective is humility.
I believe it is arrogant to state that one knows when the soul enters the body without some explicit Word from the One who makes all of it happen in the first place. Unless God outlined it in the bible (which He didn’t) the correct answer is “I DON’T KNOW.” McCain got the answer wrong (due to pandering and arrogance). Pastor Warren got the answer wrong as well.
The humble answer to such a complex question is “I don’t know.” Perhaps Barack’s main weakness was that he was too honest and too humble–more more Jesus-like characteristics than those who presume or wish to please voters.



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Raenell

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:05 pm


Why is it that we are so protective of life BEFORE birth than we are AFTER birth? You have Americans (not just celebrities) going to foreign countries for adoption because of the bureaucracy and backwards adoption policies. You have Americans who are homeless, disabled, unemployed, underinsured, in debt, the forgotten and downtrotten. At what point do people start to think outside of the womb? Why are my human rights revoked once I am born?
There needs to be a compromise because some may remember what life was like before Roe v Wade and it involved very dangerous and illegal procedures. Coat hangers are not the answer. You can’t legislate human behavior. Why can’t we come to the table and find ways to bridge together a shared desire to protect life before and after birth? Why can’t we talk about poverty, taking care of our planet, and how to prevent abortions without criminalizing it?
Folks we have to stop allowing extremists on the left or the right to hijack our religion and use it as a tool to divide and conquer us. Open our minds and hearts. God Blessed us with beautiful minds. Let us use them to solve these issues.



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Ron

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:07 pm


Mr. Warren, your unequivocal denial that John McCain did not have any foreknowledge of the questions does not ring true. It is had been admitted by his campaign that he was enroute, not sequestered, at the time. Yet, he pretended that he was having a hard time hearing through the non-existent cone.
I appreciate that you are trying to stay neutral, however, providing cover for unethical behavior is not neutrality. You should at a minimum ask for a clear description of the timeline of events, both from the McCain campaign and from your production staff. And of course, a denial that says that McCain did not see a screen, does not mean he did not listen, or was briefed, etc.
Fairness, ethical behavior, honesty. I hope these are virtues that you support.



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Andrew

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:11 pm


Warren doesn’t even seem to remember what question he asked with regards to abortion. It was not about when life begins, or even when a fetus becomes a human being(two completely different topics, by the way)– it was framed with the term ‘human rights.’ He asked a legal question and got a theologically legal answer. Even the Pope doesn’t claim to know when a soul comes into being, and what are human rights if not directly related to the soul? If he wanted the answer to a different question, then he should have thought about what he was saying. Instead he asked a question that is philosophically impossible to answer. It’s above all of our pay grades.



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David

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:13 pm


I wish McCain, Warren, and others who believe abortion is murder would explain what penalty they would attach to it. Would they punish the woman, the doctor (if any) who performs the abortion, or both? If we have the death penalty for premeditated murder, would the death penalty then apply to persons who procure or perform an abortion? If not, why not? And if you say no, then do you really believe abortion is murder, or not?
Also, McCain said that civil rights attach at the moment of conception (fertilization). What about the millions of fertilized eggs that pass out of women’s bodies in a natural process? Not every fertilized egg is implanted and grows to term. Is permitting this to happen a violation of the rights of the fertilized egg? If Sen. McCain believes what he said, he has to say yes.



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dave

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:18 pm


Not being a practicing “Christian” i had not much information on this Warren character. The more i hear him, however, the more i dislike him. He seems dogmatic and a bit vain. How can a minister of God claim to know the absolutes regarding the origins of life? Who needs God if we have pastor Warren to tell us what’s going on? It’s a sad day for America that the first organized event with the two candidates was moderated by this guy.
What does Warren think about torture…surprisingly nothing was asked about that topic. What would Warren/God say about torture?



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Raenell

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm


The comments on infanticide are based on smears. Obama did an interview for this site that addressed the policy in question and this attack has been linked to one of McCain’s “Christian soldiers”. I’m not trying to sway people one way or the other on who to vote for. Just make an intelligent choice; not one based on fear-mongering and lies.
“Catholic voters should steel themselves to hear Barack Obama accused of “infanticide” this fall. Support for that heinous crime is the latest charge being cooked up against a Democratic nominee by the man who helped to paint John Kerry as unworthy of the communion wafer back in 2004.
Deal Hudson, who was compelled to resign from his role with the Republican National Committee after sordid details from his personal life were brought to light four years ago, now sits on John McCain’s 80-person advisory board for Catholic issues. From that perch, he’s begun launching the “infanticide” smear against Obama in niche media outlets like his own “Inside Catholic” website and talk radio host Al Kresta’s program. (“Infanticide is becoming a touchy subject for Barack Obama,” Hudson wrote matter-of-factly on his website in early July.)” — From Huffington Post Aug 4, 2008



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Ken B

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:30 pm


An evangelical pastor from Florida (Hunter?) recently said that he prayed that folks would “vote with their heart and their hope this year, rather than their wallet and their gun rack.” As a pastor myself I pray that we can — as someone said above — think outside the womb as well. God bless Rick Warren for talking about poverty, and God love John McCain for all he has contributed and even suffered. But this conservative spirit says God help Barack Obama not to be elected messiah — we have one already — but to display that there is nuance, common ground, energy, hope and a measure of opportunity that we’ve so squandered (even in wars — where’s that in our call to Christianity?) over the past eight years, and may he be elected President. Of course if wallet, womb and gun rack are all we can present, please just don’t call it Christianity. Those are not our family values, and never will be. Here’s hoping…



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Kay

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:32 pm


Is it a person when you send it to die in the occupation of a sovereign nation?
Hey, and what about torture, kids? Your party (and your nominee) is a-ok with all of that. I’m pretty sure if you asked Jesus, he wouldn’t be so keen on torture. Regardless of your opinion on abortion.



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:34 pm


A war monger says, “Life starts at conception”, but MCcain will, END LIVES by voting on every war he can vote on while, jokingly saying BOMB BOMB IRAN, lets sell the Iranians cigarettes as a way of killing them, all after having served in the most genocidal wars ever in Vietnam, and sending threats to Russia in favor of a country he lobbies for.
Americas next POTUS???? Good luck America…good luck
How could you vote for a COMPUTER ILLITERATE PRESIDENT? Are you aware that the codes to launch NUKES are encrypted, computerized codes which have to be activated by someone with computer KNOWLEDGE…. DUH !!!!! Ya think the RUSSIANS know this? Can America afford on the job computer training in such a dangerous world??
You will get what you DESERVE if you vote RICK WARRENS BOY MCWAR exactly what you deserve.



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Marty

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:36 pm


Warren clearly has a favorite in this campaign and a political point to make on abortion. Perhaps that’s why he’s covering for McCain.
But he never stops to think that perhaps it is McCain’s answer that’s pandering. The Republicans have consistently used the religious right as shock troops to deliver votes, but they will never make abortion illegal as Warren wants as it would not only be political suicide but beyond the pale of what even Bush or McCain truly believe (despite what they might tell Warren).
Obama, at least, gave a sincere answer: he could not say what “moment” a fetus inherits a human soul. Can Warren say that? No, but he doesn’t need to, he just needs to score political soundbites for his audience.
The whole event was a gambit by Warren to increase his profile and political influence. It’s too bad that the press (and the candidates) bought into it. If they were going to have a religious debate, why couldn’t the candidates pick someone with more legitimacy? Why not have a debate hosted in a real church with pastors, rabbis and imams representing a range of religions that reflect a cross-section of Americans? Why? Because Warren is a slick politician himself who can deliver votes for a specific, key constituency. Because CNN can exploit the whole thing to get viewers back who’ve been defecting to MSNBC for the Olympics. Everyone is just huckstering for ratings. There’s no legitimate moral questions or issues being discussed here, and the press eats it up. It’s a bit sickening.



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Kat

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:57 pm


I thought both candidates did well, but my respect for Rick Warren has gone way down. All this stuff about flipping a coin and McCain being in a cone of silence was obviously not true. Rick Warren should have been up front about that. I thought he was a different breed than the Robertsons, Dobsons and Falwells of the past, but it looks like he is just another water carrier for the Republican party.
Sad.



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L Martin

posted August 18, 2008 at 2:59 pm


It is sad that McCain perptrated a lie on national TV when he allowed Pastor Warren to accounce that he was in the cone of silence the whole time that Obama was being interviewed. McCain did not acknowledge that he was NOT in the “cone” the whole time. He let it ride. So, that bahavior coupled with the perception that he seemed to know the questions before Pastor Warrent even asked them fuels speculation that he cheated. Pastor Warren should be upset with John McCain. Why was he late arriving anyway?



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tony clements

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:00 pm


rev. warren, on cnn yesterday, said he was “unable to give john mccain” that first question (implying that obama had an advantage at the beginning of the interview, and perhaps implying that he knew john mccain was not present when the debate started — he claims to have not known that.) in this article, warren says he gave both candidates the first question.
which is it, rev. warren?



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drjimcooper

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:02 pm


If an evangelical really believes that the Bible is literal–in other word in Psalm 139 God says ‘I formed you in your mother’s womb and before you were born I planned every day of your life,’ if they believe that’s literally true, then they can’t just walk away from that. They can add other issues, but they can’t walk away from the belief that at conception God planned that child and to abort it would be to short circuit the purpose.
By this logic, isn’t it possible that God’s plan was for that child to be aborted? Many thousands of fertilized zygotes never implant in the woman and are naturally aborted. If this is part of God’s ultimate plan, then why not believe that an abortion induced by the mother is as well?



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:06 pm


Rick Warren is a CULT LEADER and he knows his CULT and which answers he wanted them to HONE IN ON….anyone think he knew what Obamas answer to the conception question would be long before he asked it????? Think he knew that McWARmonger would give the same answer word for word that BUSH would have given???? To know how much McWARmonger cares about any life…just listen to what he is saying about RUSSIA now…he is dying to get the USA into a few more 100 year WARS.



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Will

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:12 pm


It is morally questionable that Rev. Warren told people McCain was in a “Cone of Silence” when in fact he was not, and that hearing the questions ahead of time was a matter of turning on the radio or asking an aide with a Blackberry.
Its also morally questionable that McCain allowed Rev. Warren to perpetrate this myth.
I thought that both candidates were hearing the questions for the first time. Obviously, there was lying going on.



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MKS

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:17 pm


Many millions of adult people die every day from natural causes. Could it be part of a plan for some of these deaths to be induced by murder? If so, why should we criminalize the murder of adults?



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Deborah Rhodus

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:17 pm


Does right to life only reference the abortion issue? Or is it a broader issue? I’d like to hear Rev. Warren discuss the over 4000 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraquis killed in the needless war that we are waging in Iraq. That war too is a holocaust.



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Randy Starner

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:24 pm


I’m not sure the respondents here saw the transcripts or listened to anything Rick Warren has said. There has been quite a lot of wishful thinking on the part of non-believers that a more balanced Christian activism that includes relief efforts, environmental stewardship, etc. would result in Christians forfeiting their opinions on abortion and marriage. We all put our beliefs in a hierarchy. We then have to determine which public policies best support those beliefs. Its not shocking that John McCain’s policy prescriptions seemed more palatable to the evangelical audience.



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Debbie Flores

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:29 pm


Now I know I’m not nuts. I ran across this place and I think my thinking was right on track. About 1/3 through McCains interview I heard him say he wanted to go back to the Supreme Court Justices, but wait a minute, it wasn’t even asked yet! I deleted my save of this on tivo. If anybody out there has it please check it out so I know I’m not hearing things. Also did anybody notice McCaine wasn’t wearing a flag pin, and Today (Monday) he’s talking to the Vets in Florida, guess what? No Flag pin. After all the heart ache Barak went through about not wearing a flag pin why is it nobody says anything about McCain? Shame on you Rick Warren if you are a preacher of faith and truth you need to come out in public on the major news stations and let everybody know that McCain wasn’t even in the “Cone of Silence”. And the people that are vouching that McCain didn’t see or hear anything are his own campaign. Give me a break, how dumb do they take us for? Like they don’t have some sort of television in them cars. I’m just totally disgusted I had faith in faith and now that’s gone.



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:33 pm


Randy Starner
That´s no excuse for putting blinders on to 95% of what McWARmonger stands for, do you agree?



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Philip

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:35 pm


I’m pretty sure that the Bible contains an admonition not to “bear false witness.” Which is exactly what all that blather about a “Cone of Silence” was – a baldfaced out-and-out lie. Despite being mentioned repeatedly by the lying Rick Warren, there was, in fact, no Cone of Silence. Senator McCain was not even at the building during the early part of Senator Obama’s session and he was in transit – while his aides had full access to sound and video.
Blatantly lying on national TV about a non-existent Cone of Silence not only broke Biblical commandments; it also convinced me that Mr. Warren is one of the biggest liars in American history. Because he was and is fully aware that there was no Cone of Silence, his baldfaced whoppers about it are now what Americans know best about this Liar.
My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends – for it is they who will have to deal with his sins.



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:39 pm


Debbie Flores
Look at all the clips of mcWARmonger on You tube…I have not seen him with a flag pin for quite a while.



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Brad

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:41 pm


“13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.”
-Psalm 139.
The question to Obama was NOT “when does life begin?” The question to Obama was when does a baby have “civil rights?” One is a theological question; one is a legal question. The American legal system has never (even prior to Roe v Wade), treated a fertilized egg as a legal person with civil rights.
Also…Psalm 139 does not say a word about when life begins; rather, it speaks about Who the ultimate Creator of life is (God). Psalm 139 says that God knew who we were before we were even created – does that mean that life then begins before conception???
McCain said that he believes that life begins at conception. That might be a good catch phrase, but, as President, is he going to push to make contraception illegal? If someone causes an auto accident that results in the miscarriage of a 1 day pregnancy, would McCain be in favor of holding the driver for negligent homicide? I doubt it. McCain said what the “base” wanted to hear, whether he really believes it or not; but Obama’s response is more humble and realistic.



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Vicki

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:41 pm


I’ve been a born again for 23 years and I understand the abortion issue. But I refuse to elect anyone into office on that one issue. I want someone who can govern and is of sound mind and judgment. Anti abortion does not a president make. I watched the forum and McCain did his stump speech. And you call it a triumph. Do any of you follow politics at all. When will christians stop picking presidents because they are anti abortion. That issue isnt going to feed the hungry or help get jobs or end the war or anything else. You have a mind given you by God why not use it.



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commonsense123

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:41 pm


Obviously none of you have a sense of humor. He was making a joke about the cone of silence. Haha. Obviously all you want to do is talk bad about both McCain and Pastor Warren. Get a life.



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Philip

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:44 pm


Moreover, when Mr. Warren allowed Senator McCain to plagiarize Alexander Solzhenytsen’s moving story about a guard drawing a cross while he was in the Soviet Gulag by pretending that he had the exact same experience – without any follow-up – Mr. Warren was cooperating in McCain knowingly bearing false witness with the plagiarizing.
Does Mr. Warren think that Senator McCain should be allowed to lie about his experiences so as to make them sound more like those of Solzhenytsen? Why is that? Why does Mr. Warren think bearing false witness is a way to impress real Christians?



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Heather Stecher

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:48 pm


Pastor Warren,
As a future seminary student, if that is still His will, I am profoundly disappointed in you for not asking about one of the most morally pressing issues in the world today: The redefinition of torture by the Bush administration and the fact that torture is now the law, policy and practice of the United States.
I am also extremely disappointed in you for lying to those watching the Forum or those who watched your interview about the “cone of silence.” Either Senator McCain was in the “cone of silence” in the Green Room, or he was not in the studio at all, both cannot be true, so you flat out lied when you gave two conflicting stories. That is not the way for a Pastor to behave.
Sadly,
Heather Stecher



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Lousie

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:49 pm


No one in the pro-Choice movement is working to make anyone be forced to have an abortion if they don’t want one. That’s the issue – choice – the ability to make one’s own decisions regarding one’s own body and one’s own life.
The specific religious views of a segment of the population should not be forced on everyone who don’t hold those views. Instead, they want women to be forced to bear a pregnancy, even if she is raped, molested by relatives, or if pregnancy is a danger to her health and/or life.
Why should the radical evangelical’s views be forced on all women? It is unconstitutional to force religion on people in this country.



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:53 pm


And now you should all know why there is and should ALWAYS be a separation of CHURCH AND STATE.



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Philip

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:53 pm


Further, contrary to Mr. Warren’s numerous explicit statements, the wording of the questions, by any standard, were not the same. Not exactly the same, not precisely the same, not even close to being the same.
Why did Mr. Warren say that they were going to be the same questions? Why did Mr. Warren state numerous times that the questions were going to be the same? And why were they not?
What is Mr. Warren’s problem with telling the Truth? Why doesn’t Mr. Warren follow the Biblical commandment to not “bear false witness?” What should real Christians think about a “pastor” who routinely bears false witness??



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Patrick ONeill

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:56 pm


I can’t believe that Obama agreed to appear at this cult leader’s “debate”.
It was certainly offensive to those of use who are not cult members, and if he thinks that he can win the votes of people who think that God came to earth to jail gays and ban abortion his judgment is questionable.
My hopes for November are fading – I hope Obama can get better advisers, and soon.



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triv88

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:58 pm


How very comforting it is to know that the lying adulterer who previously called evangelical leaders agents of intolerance is now willing to pander to you on the abortion issue.



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 3:58 pm


Rick Warrens is acting very much like the ANTI CHRIST and his influence is growing by the year….now he has injected himself into politics….Hmmmmmmmm….know what I mean?



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:02 pm


Patrick ONeill
If Obama had said NO, Rick Warren and McWARmonger would have called him Godless or something….better he was there…and now we know who the REAL Rick Warren is and what he is trying to do.



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Laura Jordan

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:05 pm


While I understand that this God-o-meter thing is intended to be a light-hearted way to view and discuss religion and political figures, I find the concept in practice to be cheap, glib, incredibly presumptuous, and generally insulting to many faithful people who are conscientiously looking for informed political insight.
This feature in Beliefnet is very disappointing.



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Philip

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:05 pm


And by the way, calling people “Holocaust deniers” and “liars” is about as uncivil as one can possibly be. Why does Mr. Warren think that that kind of language is acceptable; especially when he was blathering on and on about how he wanted to have a “civil” dialogue??
The bottom line is that Mr. Warren is anything but civil, he blatantly lied about the Cone of Silence, he allowed Senator McCain to blatantly plagiarize a Nobel Prize winning author who recently died without any follow-up, and he didn’t, contrary to numerous statements, ask the very same questions to the candidates.
Mr. Warren has demonstrated to all Christians exactly how seriously he considers Biblical admonitions about not bearing false witness.



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RJ

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:13 pm


It is really frightening that people actually have faith in Mr. Obama. He is a great prepared speaker but by no means can he help our nation as the president of USA this coming election. Will everyone please take a step back and do some research of their own on this man.



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John C

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:13 pm


“I don’t care how right he is on everything else, it’s a deal breaker for me. I’m not going to vote for a Holocaust denier…”
I’m getting fed up with people comparing their particular cause to the Holocaust. You simply cannot compare the brutal acts of a government in killing millions of born, independently-existing human beings with the voluntary acts of millions of individual women in ending pregnancies of partially formed fetuses in the privacy of their own lives and consciences.
Evangelicals will have to accept the simple fact that people do and always will disagree on when life begins, and so no one can say with authority what the moral implications of abortion are. This is true even when literal biblical text is brought into the debate. Contrary to Mr. Warren’s confident assertion, there is more than one way to read the literal words of Psalm 139. Assuming that God “formed” all of us in our mother’s wombs, it simply doesn’t answer the question of whether a full person exists during the process of “formation.” Psalm 139 also says “before you were BORN I planned everyday of your life.” If life clearly begins at conception, why doesn’t the passage read, “before you were CONCEIVED I planned every day of your life”?



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ZD

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:15 pm


I could never vote for a man like John McCain who dumped his wife after she became disabled in a car accident and went chasing after a rich blonde beer heiress 20 years younger than him. This was not a case of “youthful” indiscretion. McCain was in his 40s and his eventual second wife was in her 20s. The thought of that age difference is just repulsive to me. Can you imagine your 20 year old daughter bringing home some middle aged man? I would think that that man was a pervert. McCain’s first wife waited faithfully when he was imprisoned in Vietnam. And this was the thanks that she got for her loyalty and devotion? McCain doesn’t understand the meaning of marriage. I just can’t trust a man like this. I want a president I can be proud of.



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:16 pm


RJ
The only research needed now is to look at the alternative, it is what it is Obama or McWARmonger…..
Do you have faith in McCain?



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MidwestMaggie

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:22 pm


Was it a lie when Rick Warren said Senator McCain was inside the room, the “Cone of Silence”
room or didn’t he know that McCain was not at the Church?
When was he told McCain arrived?
Why didn’t his staff let him know whenever McCain arrived even if it happened when Mr. Warren
was on the air with Senator Obama?
Wouldn’t that have been the FAIR AND CHRISTIAN THING TO DO?
Why did McCain joke about being inside of the room at the beginning of his segment and it
was allowed to stand?
Why should be believe anything Senator McCain says when he lied to his FIRST wife and children?
Why would Rick Warren not just publicly state that he had good intentions of having a meeting
between the two but due to unforeseen issues such as McCain NOT being in the “Cone of
Silence” at the beginning of the show, all credibility has been lost regarding McCain’s answers?
Doesn’t a religious leader have to tell his faithful when things go wrong and not make
excuses for the person at fault?



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Philip

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:23 pm


ZD, not only did Senator McCain commit serial adultery while he was still married to his first wife, it was Carol that waited for him all those years and nursed him back to health after returning from war. To dump her unceremoniusly because he didn’t like her looks was bad enough, but to go chasing after a beer heiress and end up owning 8 mansions around the country looks really bad – at least to this Christian. What’s worse is that he repeatedly lies about when asked…and, of course, Mr. Warren asked no follow-up question about it.
Why not? Why didn’t Mr. Warren ask Senator McCain about all of the aspects of his failed first marriage, his serial adultery, his womanizing and all the lies which necessarily accompanied it? Why??



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C.L. Jackson

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:24 pm


Dear Pastor Warren,
I agree wholeheartedly with the comments made by Heather Stecher. It bears repeating, but it could not have been more appropriately stated. This smacks of what I have seen for a number of years— Deceit on behalf of the Republican Party.
Because of the abortion issue, many so-called Evangelicals infer the Replublican party to be God’s party. As a believer, I believe life begins at conception. However, when I see the evil that has been fostered via the Bush Administration, the trickery in GOP voting tactics, the events of the Iran Contra Affair, the gall of those involved in Watergate, this obviously doesn’t represent Jesus well at all.
I don’t believe that Jesus would support the Democrats either, but he would certainly call out the inconsistencies of the Republican Party just as He highlighted those of the Pharisees in Matthew 23:15 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.”
Think about it.
C. Jackson
Atlanta, GA



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John

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:26 pm


Democrats have entered the “Cone of Stupidity”. McCain was in a car for the first half of Obama’s Q&A and in other building for the second half with no TV or audio. We now know why Obama wimped out on Mccain’s townhall challenge: the guy is a drooling idiot with a teleprompter. Everytime he has to answer direct questions, the air comes out of this empty suit. BHO is toast.



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Seamus

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:35 pm


What makes Warren think that the moment life begins is something you can sit down and “figure out.” That is an answer only God can provide, and anyone who thinks they know is hubristic. Therfore, Obama’s humble answer was absolutely correct. The fact of the matter is that Republicans won’t help protect life after birth, which leads me to question the motives of pro-lifers.
As for the “cone of silence,” Warren is gullible. The lack of a monitor means he couldn’t hear the questions? Ever hear of a Blackberry or cellphone? Plus, McCain was late — he could have listened on satellite radio on the way. Not that it matters, McCain is a master at pandering and making up false stories, such as the “cross in the dirt” which he stole from a Russian author.



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Froglady

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:35 pm


Kevin the Christian,
Muslims are NOT Godless. Their religion stems straight from Abraham, Moses and even Jesus Christ. “Allah” is Arabic for “God”, just as “Dieux” is French and “Dios” is Spanish. Do you think the French and Hispanic people are “Godless” because they say “God” differently from you?



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Jim Pietrowski

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:35 pm


I’m a Believer, not a Bush-ite Christian. Someone should look into the tax exempt status for Rick and Saddleback. I think it’s pretty cut and dry!



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Ernie in Florida

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:40 pm


Surprise Triumph? The only surprising thing about this election is
that you Obama Lemmings, MSM included, still think he has a
good chance of winning!
There is a reason Obama has been afraid to join McCain in the
Town Hall Meetings and that showed on Saturday Night!
Obama did not look Presidential and McCain did!
Obama is always calculating his positions for the best political
interpretation while McCain speaks from the heart and doesn’t go
rambling on until everyone has forgotten the question!
McCain will win in November!



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30yrdem-not any more

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:41 pm


If you can not decide if life begins at conception watch this video of aborted babies then decide. (if those little hands were not of God then who do you think created them?) Watch it all because at the end there is a beautiful child at the end who was wrapped up and disposed of.
Abort73.com – WARNING! – Horrific Imagery – WARNING!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWOI6mQchbc&feature=related



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Cadmus

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:42 pm


Psalm 139 God says ‘I formed you in your mother’s womb and before you were born I planned every day of your life,’…
…if George Bush, or John McCain, or Barack Obama, or Bill Clinton, etc., believe that’s literally true, can you imagine the serious ego either of these men would have in believing that God chose them to be the most powerful person in the world? You could justify torture by saying, “God chose me…” You could justify invasions of sovereign nations under knowingly false pretenses because, “God chose you…”
Many Christians have the humility to accept that God’s greatness is too awesome for them to even suggest they know what God’s plan, while some think they know fully, without error. Why has God planned every day of a life that results in a miscarriage through no fault of the mother? Why has God planned every day of the life of an infant that dies before baptism, or innocently in a war his parents had no part in? Why do the innocent die by hurricane, tidal wave, earthquake or famine?
I am not so vane to suggest I know the answer to these mysteries. It sounds like Obama’s faith is one that embraces the unknown, as well. But, if God has planned these days, then he surely has a plan for those innocent who die at the hands of humans or nature. Their souls are in God’s hands. Do not cry for them…cry for those and pray for those who would torture and kill. Pray for mothers of unwanted pregnancies and the presidents who act against life with the false belief that they do God’s will.



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David K

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:45 pm


Make no mistake. Character was not the issue at Warren’s phony “debate.” If character were SBC’s core issue, McCain would be found to be sorely lacking in comparison to Obama for him dumping his sick wife, his involvement in the Keating five scandal, etc. More to the point, given the McCain campaign’s outright fabrications regarding oil drilling, it’s pretty clear the “Straight Talk Express” has gone off the rails. McCain has no character. What he has is a desperate lust to sit in the big chair. With our country and the world in the rotten shape that it is in, McCain is the l-a-s-t guy we need as President. Let’s get real people. It’s time to elect someone who is actually going to put America back on track. That man is clearly Obama.



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Sherry B.

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:49 pm


I sat and watched the whole production Sunday night and I’m so disgusted with the fact that Rick Warren lied. He knew Sen. McCain wasn’t in the building and was probably watching the wbole thing.
It puts him in the same company as the rest of the liars. It’s a shame, I’ve used to admire him. No more. If he’d lie so easily about politics, what else would he lie about. Maybe it is all about the $$$$$. Keep his taxes low.



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olga

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:51 pm


Somehow, it doesn’t seem right for Warren to use his version of the Bible to promote McCain and diminish Obama. It doesn’t seem Christian either, or practical. Obama’s idea of reducing abortions is a pragmatic step in the right direction. All the preaching of evangelicals isn’t going to do a darned thing. We are not all evangelicals.



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Isaac Luria

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:54 pm


I disagree with Pastor Rick Warren on this point. Why isn’t it possible to say that you can’t know the will of God? You do your best to follow God’s will — and if the issue is too complicated for you to say you know, one way or the other, isn’t humility a better response?
I don’t know where Pastor Warren, and many evangelicals, get their confidence from. Abortion is a complicated issue that affects the mother, the family of the mother, and the fetus. Saying we know what’s best for all of them is the opposite of humility.



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njw

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:57 pm


I have voted Republican in the past two presidential elections.
I am now an Obama supporter, and didn’t get the sense that either of the candidates knew what they were being asked.
I thought Obama did far better. I think its nice to see that our next president doesn’t answer until hes considered the question.



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Ralph Yetter, retired Professional Engineer, Los Alamos, NM

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:58 pm


Oh my, McCain was not in the ‘Cone of Silence’. That is the key. The CRS items are there to share… that is to take and use. McCain said he was trying to hear through the walls as a joke. Once CRS, (cheat, rob, steal) is exposed, honor is no longer present.
McCain was not were he was supposed to be. McCain was able to listen. McCain said he did not listen. McCain should have told Warren that he was not in the Cone of Silence. McCain was not honest because he did not explain that he was not in the room where he was supposed to be. McCain did not explain that to Warren. The Officer and Gentleman went out the window with McCain’s honor.
Thank you.



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RepublicansAreBlinded

posted August 18, 2008 at 4:58 pm


Just because Mccain gave the answer some wanted to hear doesnt mean he actually is being honest.
Just like Bush, he makes all kinds of promises and claims to be a Christian.
God hates Liars. He hates liars more than he hates people who have had an abortion. Its in your Bibles, read it! Can we pass a law on making lying a crime?



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Rexrichard

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:02 pm


Olga: There is only one version of the Bible. There are many translations, but only one version. Go read Psalm 139, in any translation, and you will receive the same message, unless you are so blind that you just can’t see.



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oops

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:08 pm


What’s actually rather interesting is the fact that McCain is playing the GOP’s evangelical base for all its worth. Pandering of the highest order. And this snake-oil-salesman-turned-self-appointed- and-false-prophet named Rick Warren is all too happy to take a cheap shot at Obama’s expense by inviting him to his “forum,” and then throw him overboard the next day because Obama actually, you know, attempted to answer questions using his brain, rather than pander like McCain.
I’ve got news for you evangelicals. You’re being used and manipulated by people far smarter and far more powerful than you are. That’s people, NOT God. These people are happy to come up with wedge issues every four years to ensure they cling to power, but guess what? They couldn’t care less about you and your precious abortion issue. They will never work to actually do what you want, and for that, I am grateful, despite the fact that they’re detestable in so many other ways.
You people have been had hook, line, and sinker. Have fun being poor, dumb, and lemmings for another four years!



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Ten Commandments

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:09 pm


I really do not understand the evangelical movement, or Rick Warren for that matter.
Rick states that abortion is a litmus test, or “a deal breaker,” issue for evangelicals when it comes to voting for pro-choice candidates. Undoubtedly he finds direction in the Ten Commandments God gave to Moses. Thus if abortion = murder, and murder is wrong (per the Ten Commandments), then I cannot vote for a candidate who supports abortion because it violates God’s law, even if that candidate has never performed or had an abortion.
Since the mid-’70s, however, evangelicals like Rick have conveniently forgotten that there are NINE other commandments that God gave us, and, EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, he never tells us that one of the ten is worse (or better) than the other. How then does Rick Warren ignore John McCain’s infidelity when addressing this question?
Yes, like Reagan, John McCain remarried after getting a divorce (which Jesus himself called adultery and means that John McCain continues to engage in adultery if he continues to have relations), but John’s sin is even clearer in that he had an affair with his new wife WHILE HE WAS STILL MARRIED TO HIS FIRST WIFE. Rick Warren does not press Mr. McCain about this, nor does he think that evangelicals should think long and hard about voting for a candidate who has violated the Ten Commandments.
This is the fundamental downfall of modern Christianity and its leaders. “Cafeteria” Christians, like Mr. Warren, want to pick and choose what Commandments and verses they want to follow (as well as hold others accountable to) while ignoring those Commandments that do not serve his or her immediate interests. (Of course when probably 30% of Rick Warren’s membership is divorced, he doesn’t want to upset the money cow by actually invoking Christ.)
God did not say “follow at least six of ten of the following,” or “a passing rate is seventy percent.” No, even a lukewarm Christian like John McCain knows that at minimum God gave us ten simple commandments that we were not violate.
Obama supporters abortion, abortion = murder, murder is wrong, therefore do not vote for Obama.
However, McCain is an adulterer, adultery is wrong, therefore I cannot vote for McCain.
I’m sorry Rick. In a world where values and principles are continuously bent for immediate gratification, I’m not going to follow over for either Obama or McCain just because you know them personally. I’m looking elsewhere.



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Louis from Bethlehem

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:10 pm


I can’t speak for evangelicals, but I speak for alot of Catholics who simply disagree that the government can legislate the morality of abortion. Let’s just take a minute and ask what would happen if the government mandated abortion for certain cases, instead of making it illegal. Everyone would be rightly up in arms– government has no role in that decision. PERIOD. I will trust a woman over the likes our politicians anyday. Like it or not, God left that fetus in the care of the person who’s womb it resides. Obama is absolutely 110% correct– government’s role is to make it as easy as possible for the woman to make the RIGHT decision, not to threaten and criminalize her. Rick Warren, John McCain or anyone else cannot legislate moral decisions. We can’t solve the abortion in this country until we move past this stupid divide.



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SK

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:20 pm


Life is an unbroken chain. Every cell both diploid and haploid are living. To declare that new life begins at conception poses a set of ethical questions that totally changes the landscape of America. That each sperm’s genetic make up is unique to every other cell in the body (having one set of chromosomes vs two), should sperm be protected as each zygote should?
Is life most important or consciousness? Does a zygote have consciousness? Can it make decisions? What do we do with extra embryos from IVF?
Do we prosecute men for murder, if they push their spouses down the stairs and induce an abortion? Do we prosecute women’s bodies that don’t implant the egg? What of the case of an ectopic pregnancy, and an abortion saves the mother’s life? Should the doctor then be prosecuted for manslaughter? IUD’s prevent the implantation of zygotes.. will they be outlawed, and the women using IUDs prosecuted for murder? Regardless of the number of abortions in America today, I’d bet my life savings that there are millions more naturally occurring non-implantation events, and zygote rejections.
What about new technology that “turns back the clock” on skin cells to make them pluripotent or totipotent? What happens when we have the technology to totally role back the clock of cellular differentiation, back to the potential of that cell growing into a fully formed human (in regards to cloning – moot). These cells then fall back into the same category as embryonic stem cells.
At present Roe v Wade protects a woman’s right to choose. My personal belief is that consciousness should be the measure of defining a human, and the beginnings of that is when the neural tube forms and undifferentiated cells start to differentiate into neurons and glial cells. Are our bodies not merely vessels for our eternal souls?



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Eric

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:26 pm


Battleship McCain just sank unless we get a straight up apology. Something like “Yeah, I caught a little of the Q&A on the way, and I’m sorry, but what would you have done?”
This is pretty obvious – from the transcript:
WARREN: Define marriage.
MCCAIN: A union — a union between man and woman, between one man and one woman. That’s my definition of marriage…Could I — are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices or should I mention –
WARREN: We will get to that.
MCCAIN:
WARREN: You’re jumping ahead (inaudible).

Next time they need to do this somewhere like the No Spin Zone. If this could have been edited it would come off beautifully. But now this is not only making McCain appear dishonest, but it makes him look incapable of even hitting softball pitches – he was being given underhanded lobs that Pete Rose would have bet on and he hit some good ones, but in the end it still gets you kicked out of the game when things are rigged.
Just sad…



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Helen

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:35 pm


It’s quite interesting to me that many people have gotten the “start of life” question entirely wrong – even this website. Look carefully – in one of the questions in this article, the website started out with “When you asked Obama about when life begins”. Warren didn’t ask either one when life begins. He asked when a baby has human rights. That’s an ENTIRELY different question.
It would be in all of our best interests to step back and try to really listen. And then take time to think about the ramifications of what each person is saying.
You might want to check out this link on the topic. Then fight the urge to have a kneejerk reaction and really think about it:
McCain and Obama on Abortion
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1833496,00.html?imw=Y
Have a good evening.



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Ugh!

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:41 pm


So, because McCain positions himself as anti-abortion he gets the “pro-life” stamp of approval from a large swath of evangelicals.
What about his enthusiastic support and approval of an unjustified and unnecessary war which has led to the avoidable death of tens of thousands of people including children. Why is that OK.
THIS is exactly why I left organized religion…the hypocrisy is mind numbing.



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Marilyn Preston

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:46 pm


I watched the forum with John McCain Sat. evening and Barack Obama Sun. AM. I was sure with Rick Warren officiating that it would be on the up and up. However, when John McCain answered a question before Rick actually spoke the question, I knew that the questions were furnished and supposed that both candidates were informed. I am deeply disappointed in the faith forum and feel it was totally unfair, since obviously, Barack Obama did not have the questions in advance. It was obvious to me and evidently to others, since I have been reading about it on the internet. Shame…Shame…Shame!!! This was not a very Christian thing to do!



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Jason

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:50 pm


It’s sad, but not surprising, that so many people think McCain won the Saddleback charade. The reason Republicans keep winning is because they never cease to overestimate the stupidity and gullibility of Americans, while Democrats keep telling themselves, “Surely, Americans aren’t dumb enough to buy that hooey, are they?” Yes, they are.
What you saw was one candidate who was thoughtful, nuanced, eloquent, and most of all, brave enough to speak his mind. Only Obama was realistic and honest enough to tell us that we will all have to sacrifice in order to fix this nation, just as our grandparents did following the Depression and WWII. McCain, when he wasn’t dodging questions by serving up sappy stories designed to melt both the heart and the brain, answered with simple-minded one-liners and slogans. By the way, that story about the Vietnamese guard and the cross–a lot of evidence out there says that’s a total fabrication. McCain never mentioned it till 1999, when he started running for Prez against Bush. In his earlier memoirs of his POW experience, he never mentioned it. Don’t you think that’s kinda strange?
As for their Christian faith, do you honestly think we can judge that based on what we heard at Saddleback? Look at their lives and their career, their treatment of “the least of these”; look them over real closely, and then decide who seems to have modeled themselves more after Christ?



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Greg

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:52 pm


From the Huffington post:
A few weeks ago, the Huffington Post’s Seth Colter Walls reported that Republican officials and outside groups were set to launch a smear campaign against Barack Obama, accusing the Senator of enabling infanticide.
The issue stems from a state version of the federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which proposed that any “viable” fetus surviving a late-term abortion receive sustaining medical care. Obama opposed the measure not because he disagreed with overarching purpose, but because of objectionable side-provisions such as a failure to immunize doctors from legal prosecution.
AND THIS IMHO IS WHAT RICK WARREN KNOWS ABOUT AND IS HELPING THEM WITH…….God will deal with RICK WARREN



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Thomas

posted August 18, 2008 at 5:56 pm


So, Ten Commandments, murder is equal to adultery???! You don’t make any sense. Even our laws have different levels of punishment depended on the level of the crime. Not all crimes are the same. I would say that in our society, murder is at the top of the list as far as being a bad crime and jaywalking is at the bottom.



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Allan

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:05 pm


I am also a little bothered about elevating the issue of abortion above all others.
And after reading the interview it is reasonably clear that Rick Warren is part of the religous right though he packages himself into more friendly and approachable terms.
I think he probably helped himself by going to the forum but it appears clear that Warren is in the tank for McCain. When Warren is asked at the end of the interview about violation of the rules by McCain, he should have simply said that he believes they followed the rules but instead actually go on the attack: “They’re dead wrong. That’s just sour grapes”.
The reality is that Warren does not and could not know what McCain was doing since he was with Obama the entire time and the McCain crew has acknowledged they were in a car for a large portion of the Obama portion; Warren has no idea what they were doing so he is not in a position to make any statement.



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Rich in Chicago

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:09 pm


As others have noted, for more than 1900 years, the majority of the Christian world expressed either doubts about when life began or believed it occurred sometime after conception. They could all be wrong, of course, but to assume that one knows more than all of them and that anyone who disagrees is a bad or false christian is the kind of hubris and pride that isn’t consistent with the spirit of humility.
Is Rick Warren or John McCain really smarter than Thomas Aquinas?
Does Psalm 139 really say that life begins at conception? You have to twist it pretty hard. It is speaking about God’s foreknowledge of us. If we take it to be a text about when life begins, then it is saying life begins BEFORE conception. Good luck with that thinking.
The bible is actually silent about when life begins. But the circumstantial evidence in there, if people are actually trying to discern God’s will versus trying to proof text their way to a conclusion, suggest that it isn’t. Abortion in the old testament was treated as a property crime, not a capital crime.
But no one (save God) knows for sure. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar or prideful.
Obama had the humility to say the truth- no one knows but God. We can all have opinions. But that’s all they are, and part of Christian humility is recognizing that some things only God knows. Recognizing that isn’t cowardice. It’s honesty and humility.



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occam

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:12 pm


“McCain did well at the Saddleback forum so he must have cheated.”
It amuses me to see how left-wing liberals always cry foul when they get their butts kicked. It’s my belief this is because the true left-wing liberal is so convinced that his position correct he is utterly incapable of seeing or believing actual facts that are inconsistent with his world view. Because they are closed minded, they can not even conceive of the possibility that they may be wrong and they will totally and completely ignore any and all fact that proves them wrong. In word, they are ideologues. When ignoring fact fails, they cry “cheat” and don the tinfoil hats of conspiracy moonbats. Truly pathetic. These are souless people who will never be happy for they live illusory lives. The left-wing liberal is a perpetual victim in search of victimizers — victimology is the basis of the left-wing liberal politics. It’s easy to see why Obama is their candidate … he too is an illusion, a figment of his own imagination.
Obama, CHANGE you can believe in if you want a President who is narcissistic, specious, vacuous, and effete.



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mike preston

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:18 pm


Here is what is grossly unjust about this Rick Warren. These Taliban-like evangelical extremists are so focused on abortion, and wedge issues, but what about the War in Iraq, torture, and an economy designed to work for the healthy and wealthy!! (by the way John Mccain stood with president bush on all of these issues) when it comes to wedge issues like abortion you creepy evangelicals are the first ones to show up but when it comes to the things that have black listed our country like torture, a war based on lies= you guys simply view it as us versus them. thats why i say screw that religion! to me evangelicals are lie the domestic al qaeda
the proof is you guys back a candidate that stood with bush on taxes, torture, and the war in Iraq! by a large margin you hypocrites



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Daniel Turner

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:29 pm


I am an older evangelical, in two senses: I am over 65. I am a United Methodist Pastor who is part of an evangelical tradition that is over 250 years old! I am for Obama. I am a Christian evangelical who believes the “good news” of the Prince of Peace, that one of our primary objectives is to “turn swords into plowshares.” Senator McCain is for turning up with more swords, tanks, planes, bombs and fighting more wars, while being very belicose about it. We do not need more of the Bush foreign policy.
All that said, Warren was right that we need more civility and a deeper recognition that God is not a Republican or a Democrat!



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occam

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:34 pm


When you’ve seen the microscopic images of the embryo of what will become your child at the fragile 8-cell stage, and then later when you first see faint heart beat and tiny brain on ultrasound you know life begins at conception. These embryos that undergo cell division and grow outside of their mothers bodies are alive … nothing but life itself has this ability. When you’ve gone through three cycles of IVF and know that 20 or 30 of these embryos didn’t survive after implantation, you know how hard it is for these struggling humans to survive the first days and weeks of their lives. Don’t tell me life doesn’t begin at conception … I’ve seen it with my own eyes.



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Patrick

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:35 pm


Rick Warren either lied when he said Mccain was in the *cone of silence* or he was wrong when he stated as fact that McCain was in the *cone of silence* Rick Warren stood in his church and presented false information as truth. Now he can’t even admit he did that. Rick warren is a typical Christian.



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Bob Burkle

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:41 pm


I wonder if Pastor Warren can explain how McCain was able to answer the 3 part teacher merit pay question before it was even asked? I had hoped that it was because both candidates had been given the same resources but now the pastor denies this level of specificity. I can understand why finding out McCain was not isolated AND having him answer questions before they were asked is disconcerting. Even the grandfatherly stories are suspect – the ‘cross in the dirt’ story didn’t appear until 1999 in McCain’s litany and in 1973 he told a story about ‘the only decent guard he ever met’ as a POW that allowed him to lay down for a few hours once. Odd that he didn’t remember the one who loosened his bonds then but did over 20 years later? All a bit too politically convenient in the face of everything.
As to the forum (it was not a debate) Obama was obviously the more thoughtful and honest in his answers. All we got out of McCain was pandering jingoism in stump speech sound bites. Did he cheat? Who knows and who cares – the evangelicals that Obama can reach will be swayed by his comments and repulsed by McCain’s and those that would fall for McCain’s wouldn’t have voted for Obama anyway.



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Mr Jackson

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:45 pm


Rick Warren stood in front of his church and stated something as fact when he did not know it to be fact. So Rick Either lied or just said something that he had no idea whether it was true or not. The congregation took Rick at his word and it was false. Now all Rick can say is that it was sour grapes. Instead of standing as a man and explaining that he offered misinformation he tries and slams Obamas people. What a sorry guy he is and you people take him at his word when it has been proven his word means nothing. Maybe you folks should find a church where your pastor is not a liar.



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Froglady

posted August 18, 2008 at 6:55 pm


I know LIFE begins at conception. My issue is: when does this dividing cell blob become embodied with soul? In other words, when does it become human. Until that point, I believe that living, breathing human beings deserve more consideration than the blob. And, as I said before, since we don’t know when it gets a soul, I’d set the mark at 40 days — when the embryo starts developing nerves and can feel pain. Past that point, only emergency abortions should be performed.



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derbra j lakin

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:02 pm


i thought the getting to know the canidates was a perfect setting.john mccain was so much clearer about the issues.obama is evasive.after this viewung of the two canidates all of my family has decieded to vote for john mccain.we have always been democrates this is the first time any of us will vote for a republician president.i believe when necessary crossing party lines to elect a better qualified canidate its necessary.thank you pastor warren.
d.l. in il.



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Margaret Moustafa

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:09 pm


I don’t fault Pastor Warren for not being a security expert. (In fact, I praise him for his leadership in civility!) However, being in a car surrounded by secret service agents, says nothing about information security in the age of cell phones.



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Janick

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:09 pm


That’s weird derbra. My family have been die hard republicans for years and after watching McCain tell war stories instead of answering questions we have decided that we are voting for Obama. After talking with co-workers today it seems that at least 90% are now voting for Obama as well.



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RJ

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:14 pm


What’s astonishing is how evangelicals and bible belt Americans put blind faith ahead of real decisions that will affect them. Since that’s the case, the Republican party has had no problem capitalizing on this. If you somehow feel that war, loss of civil liberties, rising health care costs, more poverty, more foreclosures, corrupt government and high gas prices (to name a few) is less important than a practical discussion about birth control then I feel deeply sorry for you.



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William

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:18 pm


If Rick Warren new that Mr. McCain was not in the “green room” or “cone of silence spot” why would he move forward with the questions? I am an independent, so I was hoping for a good outcome that gives me and others the information they are looking for when choosing their candidate to support. Now something as stupid as being late to an event such as this leaves me and others wondering if Mr. McCain had access to the questions. The questions were simple; nevertheless would any of you be late to your first speaking event if you were running for The President of the United States. So he either runs late or is being told the questions?
Sorry,but I typed this on th fly



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Frank Villelli

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:22 pm


I sent Rick Warren an email expressing my concern about this presentation. I was pleasantly surprised at how well it was carried out. A couple of points if I may…
The partisans on either side are going to claim ‘victory’ irregardless of the facts. I think each of us needs to walk away with our own interpretation of what transpired on Saturday.
There are a lot of unsubstantiated ‘facts’ being injected into this scenario. Perhaps we should leave the conspiracy theories outside. Unfortunately for Rick Warren it is now too late to do that. In the minds of some he will now go down in history with the likes of Lee Harvey Oswald and John Wilkes Boothe for ‘assasinateing’ Barack’s presidential career. I think that is unfair. And there is no way to disprove this theory. In some minds, by definition, McCAin is a liar.
I too would have liked some follow up questions. For both candidates. The lack thereof should not lessen the opportunity this forum gave all of us to see the candidates unscripted.
I think the Obama people need to realize that Mr. Obama is a different speaker when he is scripted and on the teleprompter and when he is speaking extemporaneously. When scripted, he is truly ‘gifted’ or he is along with his writers. Without his teleprompters, he hems and haws with the rest of us And it seems that is a difficult thing for them to accept.
Put aside the abortion question for a moment, (it seems we will never agree on that issue). Mr. Obama, 3 times voted against a bill that would require doctors to provide normal care to babies that survive botched abortions. The practice was to shuffle them off, out of site and allow them to simply die alone. If that isn’t infanticide, perhaps someone could tell me what is.This practice, and these votes against a bill prohibiting it go way beyond abortion in its most liberal form. Whether or not, one is pro choice, how can this practice be justified? How can his votes be reconciled with ‘Christian beliefs”?
For those who think this was a hatchet job on Barack… I can’t agree. These were different questions then the candidates usually get. Generally, candidates NEVER answer the question posed. Rather they pick some nuance and regurgitate their stump stuff. This time, they were different questions. I think they were good questions and while they were not EXACTLY the same questions… There were conversations going on up on the stage, and I think the lead ins changed and the questions changed a little. People complaining that different questions were being asked are being perhaps a bit too critical.
Good Job Rick
Frank



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Anthony

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:32 pm


Well congratulations on being suckered in all you gullible people. The Obama campaign put the rumours out there about McCain getting the questions ahead of time was to try and do damage control since he did well. Did you ever stop to think that Obama always seems to evade answers and talks in circles when he is asked a question he doesn’t have a full answer ready for. McCain, in every debate, always responds immediately and clearly, because he actually believes what he is saying. How hard is it to answer the question of when do you believe life begins. It doesn’t take thought, you just state your opinion, either at conception, or whenever you believe it does. The only reason you can’t answer any question quickly and directly is because you are trying to say the thing that you think most people want to hear in order to like you. Which is all Obama ever does. It doesn’t take a lecture to answer a simple question, especially if you hold Christian values like Pbama says he does.



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Bob Burke

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:48 pm


Put aside the abortion question for a moment, (it seems we will never agree on that issue). Mr. Obama, 3 times voted against a bill that would require doctors to provide normal care to babies that survive botched abortions. The practice was to shuffle them off, out of site and allow them to simply die alone. If that isn’t infanticide, perhaps someone could tell me what is.
Frank, simply put you have been lied to, and by repeating it you are gossiping.
Illinois has some of the strictest abortion laws in the US – The Illinois Abortion Law of 1975. It requires that all abortions performed when there is even a chance the fetus will be viable has to have their own physician to provide for its medical care and much more. This law has been in effect since, as you might guess, 1975 through the present day and was in place when this bill you reference was before the Illinois state legislature.
The bill you are referring to when it first was proposed only had one paragraph that provided anything the existing law didn’t – a catch phrase that’s sole purpose was to provide a rationalization for the federal challenge of Roe v. Wade. It did nothing to protect Illinois fetus more than the already existing law. It did go through the committee 2 times and this committee was chaired by state Senator Obama but voting for or against the bill did NOTHING to better protect viable births than the statute I have linked above.
What happened is in desperation they amended the bill to remove the offending paragraph but by doing so they made the bill have absolutely nothing new in it. So what do you do with a bill that has been amended into irrelevancy? You send it back to the Rules committee to evaluate it (basic civics – bills go to the rules committee first for them to decide if the bill is even relevant, then passed on to their appropriate committee and back to rules if altered to the point it no longer does anything as in this case).
That is what happened – at all times the above existing statute gave better and more stringent protection to viable infants born from abortions in Illinois – you have been deliberately lied to about this subject by people who’s agenda is to misrepresent Senator Obama’s acts and views on abortion.
So now when you read the statute and find out that what I’ve just said is true – what are you going to do? Apologize for saying things that aren’t true (intentional lie or gossip – either way a grievous sin for any Christian)? Actively correct people that spread this lie? Realize that many of the people you have trusted for accurate information are actively lying to you? Should you trust them again after their using you in this way? What would Jesus do?



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William

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:50 pm


If Rick Warren new that Mr. McCain was not in the “green room” or “cone of silence spot” why would he move forward with the questions? I am an independent, so I was hoping for a good outcome that gives me and others the information they are looking for when choosing their candidate to support. Now something as stupid as being late to an event such as this leaves me and others wondering if Mr. McCain had access to the questions. The questions were simple; nevertheless would any of you be late to your first speaking event if you were running for The President of the United States. So he either runs late or is being told the questions?



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mike

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:51 pm


Obama was bamboozled by the evangelicals.
The deck was stacked against him. I give him credit. He took on the Christianists on their own turf and didn’t do too bad. But the idea that this was somehow an opportunity to win over the religious zealots that make up a bulk of the Republican party is absurd. These wackos vote on one issue and one issue only: abortion. How do they rationalize their “pro-life” stance when the same people are for a war that has led to nearly 100,000 dead innocent Iraqis? Apparently, you’re only human until you are born. These fundamentalists can’t be reached through reason, so the Dems should punt. McCain’s answers pandered to the worst, most basest instinct in those people and that’s what they wanted. Red meat. Obama should have taken the high road and said he didn’t think it was the government’s job to interfere in a health issue that should be between a woman, her docter and her God. It’s no one else’s business.



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JM

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:53 pm


Dear Pastor Warren,
You lied to the American people – and that is a deep, deep disappointment.
I took you at your word when you said to America on television last Saturday night that John McCain was in a cone of silence while you were speaking with Barack Obama.
But he wasn’t.
He was completely free, unfettered, and in his own limousine with all the access to any communication devices he desired.
You lied to us. Even in the very best interpretation, you deliberately misled us.
Where is your spirituality now? Where is your moral accountability? Where is your humility, your common decency?
You may take all the umbrage you wish about the criticism leveled against you for this, but that fact remains: you lied to us.
You disgraced my faith.
You owe every American, and particularly those of faith, an apology.
JM



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Disgusted

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:55 pm


Equating not following a particular extreme religious belief with being a Holocast denier reveals what a truly nasty piece of work this man is.
Evangelicals are always complaining about being discriminated against, but here we see the reality: If you don’t agree that ending a process even when it’s just literally a few cells is the same as herding adults and children into gas chambers, then you’re a Holocaust denier who doesn’t deserve consideration as a candidate.
That line alone was so offensive to the memory of those who were actually murdered as to make this man unfit to be quoted.



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Listen

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:57 pm


RJ Wrote:
“What’s astonishing is how evangelicals and bible belt Americans put blind faith ahead of real decisions that will affect them. Since that’s the case, the Republican party has had no problem capitalizing on this. If you somehow feel that war, loss of civil liberties, rising health care costs, more poverty, more foreclosures, corrupt government and high gas prices (to name a few) is less important than a practical discussion about birth control then I feel deeply sorry for you.”
People with faith see that they will only be on this earth 80 or 90 years if they are lucky. They must look at what will affect them for eternity. What is important to a person without faith may not be the same things that are important to a person with faith in Christ.
Also, RJ used the words “blind faith”. Well that is the only kind of faith there is. If you see something, you don’t need to have faith to know it is there.



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DJP

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:57 pm


After watching the debate, my family has changed their vote from Obama to McCain. As Catholics,we are just uncomfortable with Obama’s militant abortion stand. Too bad, because Obama really seemed like he was different, but it obvious, that he just stating pary lines. More so, I rather have someone who suffered during a war than someone who knows absolutely nothing about warfare. It seems that Mc Cain is right; we need someone with experience.



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John C

posted August 18, 2008 at 7:59 pm


I watched the debate and I was very impressed by the fairness Rick Warren attempted to impart… until I learned that one of the debaters, John Mc Cain, was NOT in the “cone of silence” described by Rick until half-way through the debate.
Rick’s statement at the beginning of the debate was not truthful. I am very shocked that a debate organized under a pastor’s moral authority can be started with a lie by that very pastor.
Whether John McCain took advantage of it, and listened to Rick’s questions and his oppnent’s responses, is another issue.
I do hope Rick will have the courage and integrirty to set things straight tonight on CNN.



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Mark C

posted August 18, 2008 at 8:25 pm


Rick emphatically denied in the interview that McCain was not in a “cone of silence” and that he truly didn’t hear the interview with Obama. Why don’t you take this at face value and believe him? Like Rick said, this sounds like “sour grapes.”



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KPurzycki

posted August 18, 2008 at 8:27 pm


May we now have a forum at a Unitarian church too?



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Joe

posted August 18, 2008 at 8:41 pm


John McCain was on his way to the event in a car, probably heard all of the questions asked of Obama on the radio and then was ready for the “evil” business. Of course he comes out with the simple answers on evil: “defeat it” he says, to resounding applause, unaware of his own and the audience’s complicit evil-doing in Iraq, where thanks to our efforts of invading a sovereign country, the death toll is at least double that caused by Saddam during his term in power. You Southern Baptist-types love a fight against “evil” that someone else wages as long as you don’t have to leave your gated-commnities, shopping malls, mega-churches and give up your SUVs. No sacrifice for you. A fine, noble American tradition since at least 1965. Bush and McCain are your perfect candidates.



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James A. Lamm III

posted August 18, 2008 at 8:47 pm


Obama should have said that life begins at conception but that protected life does not. He should have then explained that 37% of all embryos are aborted naturally thus making Rick Warren’s “God” a mass murderer. But facts never get in the way of pompous holy rollers like Rick Warren and his ilk any way. I’m embarrassed that he kissed Warren fat behind by even going! What’ next? Kissing the ring on Benedict’s finger?



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Trish Zeinert

posted August 18, 2008 at 8:56 pm


After reading a majority of these comments I must admit these writers are quite passionate in their views. One distinction does exist in these passions…….the Obama supporters are exceptionally mean spirited and nasty. Rick lied…..McCain lied…..blah blah blah. I watched the program twice and there was a very clear difference between the candidates – Obama’s answers were nuanced and McCain’s were direct. I believe McCain (to my surprise) won that evening with his directness. The Obama gang has taken to whining and name calling which demonstrates a complete lack of maturity and reinforces in my mind why I left the democratic party and became a republican. The “it’s everybody else’s fault” mantra of the left is getting old – take responsibility and give credit where it is due.



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Darren Nelson

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:07 pm


It was rigged. I don’t trust Warren or McCain. Warren should have known better than to get involved with McCain. His reputation is now severely tarnished.



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Darren Nelson

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:10 pm


I wonder how John McCain is going to save all the embryos discarded at fertility clinics. Maybe we should ban in-vitro.



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john Dowd

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:17 pm


I think that either Rev. Warren or some person affiliated with the event should have made it clear that McCain was not only not in the ‘cone of silence’ when the event began, he wasn’t even at the church. I simply don’t believe that no one knew this. Of course they did. That’s like if the bride or groom was missing at a wedding.
I don’t think the organizers are responsible for McCain’s behavior, but they should have pointed it out. That was one of the fundamental ground rules and ground rules do exist for a reason. No one, including Rev. Warren, knows whether or not McCain was in touch with his staff via the cell phone during that period. He chooses to believe Sen. McCain. I don’t particularly and here’s why.
Neither he nor his campaign has offered any explantion of why he was not in the ‘green room’. If his plane was late, or the motorcade was delayed, etc., why not simply say so and clear it up. Instead they attacked the reporters who reported that he was not in the room (in fact some even said the reporters were wrong which they were not. They reported accurately)
Since no alternative explanation was offered one can only assume that being outside the ‘silent zone’ was deliberate and what credible explanation of this can there be? Senator McCain at the very least has left a big question about his motives.
And he started his portion of the session with a lie. He said in answer to Rev. Warren’s first question that he was “…trying to listen through the wall…” That was a deliberate deception.



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Horace Miles

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:21 pm


Hmmm
It is a proven fact that John McCain has lied about a lot of thinks such as which judge would you not appoint. Everyone he named He voted for! John McCains Christmas story sounds just like a scene I saw in Ben Hur. Sadly enough he is using it to sway people to his side. If John McCain is a genuine war hero, why did he make Admiral before retiring. That should have been an automatic promotion. Also it is common knowlege that he cracked under pressure as a prison of war. No one that was a prisoner of war with him is supporting him (strange). I think not. Do you really want someone in the White House that has been proven to crack under pressure? I don’t because there were prisoners of war that didn’t crack. Pastor Rick can not say what McCain heard or not. Both He and John McCain should have lost their credibility once that was known. I was clear He was pandering to the audience and not try to reveal anything about himself, except to play on his somewhat tarnished prisoner of war record. If Obama was playing as dirty as McCain this would have been over. I can imagine that 3 am call at the White House and John McCain wakes up startled “I tell yah anything you wanna know”….. as he looks around to find it is only him and his wife there.. Obama 2008



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Douglas Harrison

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:23 pm


That Warren should take Psalm 139′s phrase about being “formed in the womb” and insert his own idea that it refers specifically to the moment of conception (and not any other point when the child is growing in the womb) tells me everything I need to know about the ‘objectivity’ of his Biblical interpretation.



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Xerxes

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:34 pm


I saw the whole thing, and Obama had and has a problem talking directly to an audience (making eye contact with your constituents), in these types of forums where as McCain does not (McCain, always turned from Rick and directed his comments back to the audience, like it should be done), have a little embarrassed boy personality.
Fact of the matter is that McCain will be the Next President of the Country, He’s just the better man for the job. We’ll see in four years if he does a fair job or not, then if we’re still a viable planet at that time we can choose another one for the job, who knows, maybe Obama will get it then.
Take a chill pill Darren, maybe you should run for Pres, what are you going to do for your country? complain all the time about the lack of fairness. Make a difference, Stop complaining, and do something to help your fellow humans! Stop being Selfish People. Look at what we’re all teaching our children to be like. Be careful of the things you Hate, before you blindly become them!



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Fiona

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:54 pm


With respect, Barack Obama was misled by Christians. They told him it was conversational, not speechifying. So he held a conversation with Rick Warren, with the audience ‘ listening in” He was blindsided.
However that is nothing new – the Spanish Inquisitors did a lot of that too.



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Jason

posted August 18, 2008 at 9:56 pm


Explain how McCain will be a better president than Obama.



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Vesica

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:03 pm


Can you believe what has become of our political system? And the fact that polls consistently show that the public view supporting Roe v Wade remains roughly the same as it was when Roe v Wade was enacted. And has anyone pointed out to Warren that guess what! Presidents don’t decide these issues – it’s outside their realm.
On a related note, “Romney-Huckabee Feud Exposes Fault Lines In GOP Base”



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Vesica

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:05 pm

sherry

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:07 pm


I’m a Christian and an Obama supporter but I get nauseous every time I hear false evangelicals claiming that they will not vote for a pro-Choice candidate as if they were a demon from Hell, yet these same people are a member of the Republican party that proudly supports the deaf penalty. These are the same people who say that every soul can be saved and redeemed, yet they say Obaman couldn’t be a Christian because he possibly went to a Muslim school. Even if he did, if you are a true Christian believer then you should know the power of God in transforming a person’s soul and their life. I have learned to rely on my own personal relationship with God throught prayer and attend church for fellowship, but my true faith stems from my conversations with God on my knees in prayer at night. Shame on all of you Christians. You are entitled to vote for whomever you want, but stop telling people that they can only be saved unless they were born a Christian fron day one. Please read your Bible and pray, because you people are distorting the Christian faith and making true believers look really bad. As for Rick Warren, I thought he was one of the last great, honorable celebrity pastor left (other than Olsteen), yet he clearly lied during this forum and was clearly biased toward McCain. It’s fine to support McCain, but as the moderator you have to keep your support of your candidate to yourself otherwise it takes away the credibility of the entire debate. I’m mostly disappointed in you Rick Warren. Pastor should not dirty thier calling by getting involved in politics. The fact that you chose to do so demonstrate that you are vainglorious and act as though you know all of God’s secrets and answers. You are not a humbled person at all. No one on that stage was perfect, neither one, but I think Obama did demonstrate humility and grace and fairness unlike McCain and Warren.



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Un In Formed

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:08 pm


I don’t know anything, but I sure know that this country of ours is headed for trouble: On one side is the guy who wants to continue doing the same stuff that the incumbent has done for almost two complete terms with no visible success, and on the other side is the guy who wants to raise taxes to pay for entitlement programs for Americans who have had trouble making a good living in this land of opportunity and plenty either because of laziness or no discernible fault of their own.
What’s at stake is not about god, religious belief, or core values, but dollars and sense. We need to balance the budget, and the quickest way to do that is for the government to stop bleeding a billion greenbacks each day, shrink the government, and to put the government on a fixed income just like unfortunate older Americans who rely on their monthly Social Insecurity checks.
As for drilling for oil off shore, anybody who thinks doing that will lower the price of gas at the pumps in less than a few years has no concept that things take time. Even when that oil starts flowing, the oil companies will sell that oil to the highest bidder who is likely to be somebody who has beaten all other bidders across the planet. If we want oil, we’ll have to pay the going price which won’t get lower because the world’s population will continue to increase. More people means greater demand.
That’s a little bit of what’s at stake in this election not some silly statement of where a candidate was or was not or whether a candidate is deity fearing or not.



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indielaura

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:12 pm


Congratulations Senator McCain. You convinced the Christian Right that you are indeed one of them and moderate independents like me that you are no maverick and no moderate. So much for the “maverick differnet kind of Republican”. You sounded just like our current 28% approval ratings president GWB. John McCain, more of the same. I am now leaning towards Obama because he was smart enough to understand that a church full of Reaganites in Orange County wasn’t his real audience, it was people like me at home. McCain may have won the battle for white eveangelicals (which he was winning that anyway), but he lost the battle for indies like me. You right wingers have no idea how much damage he did to himself with us folks in the middle.I hope Obama is smart enough to run adds targeted towards pro-choice women like myself who were under the false impression that McCain might be pro-choice. Oh and that he thinks you have to make $5mil before you are rich. I got pretty tired of his “I’m a POW” schitck as well.



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Larry

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:14 pm


It is evident that something went wrong, McCain was somehow able to get either the questions or was briefed on the question prior to the his schedule time. Also, Obama went along with the premises of the forum “A conversation with Warren”, while McCain give political speeches. Warren never stop McCain from giving political, canned answered. Lastly, Warren stated on “Larry King Live” that audience was split about 50/50 with supporter of Obama and McCain…no one in their right mind would believe this. This was a set-up, yet hopefully people stilled listen and really think aobut the answers given by the candidates…McCain war, war, prisoner, prisoner, prisoner…all for politics. Obama real from the heart, truthful answers. A conversation on Faith. Warren, I am a little disappointed with his role in this set-up.



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Zack Centre

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:16 pm


Cone of silence? This whole thing,Saddleback Civil Forum, has shown what itself for what it really is = and endorsement for McCain, a whipping for Obama.



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DJ Smith

posted August 18, 2008 at 10:20 pm


What??? McCain was in a motorcade when Obama was on air. What about honesty, fairness?



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valwayne

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:22 pm


Come on folks. “The Obama” showed what we already knew. Outside of giving a speech with a telepropter “The Obmama” can’t answer a question without screwing up. I don’t think its because he’s stupid…I think its because the “Real Obama” is the man who sat in Rev Wright church for 20 years listening to hate. The One that let Bill Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro be tarred as racists. The One that outed his Grandmother as racist and typical white person. The one that thinks the American working class are bitter, gun toting, bible thumping bigots, the One that think it is more patriotic not to wear a flag pin in his lapel. “The Obama” has answers…he just knows that American won’t like them. So tries to sound….what is it…Nuanced…which means avoiding answering any questions. Its still not too late….there is still time to nominate Hillary.



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D Dowrick

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:24 pm


I am a Roman Catholic and I am tired of these men of God trying to get envolved with politics. You should preach and help the needy but leave politics to the politicians. See what Mr. Warren started? How do we know he is telling us the truth? How many of these men of God have been caught doing wrong (especially my priests)? I accept no man’s claim that there wasn’t something funny going on in that debate. McCain was to well prepared and we all know from watching him in previous talking elements that he is a bad speaker.



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DaddysDarlin

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:29 pm


So Obama didn’t fare too well and all you can do is call foul again right? It’s the same old crap out of you Obama supporters, if he doesnt do well, its not Obama’s fault its someone else’s. When are you going to get it? Obama does not do well without a teleprompter, you haven’t noticed that by now? So since he didn’t come across well, that wasn’t his doing it was the fault of Rick Warren or John Mccain’s? They must have rigged it somehow to make Obama look bad, like they actually put those words in Obama’s mouth? Does any of that make sense to you? If it does you really need some help. Obama is not the man you seem to think he is, and the more he shows that side of himself the less likely he is to become elected. He knows that, that is why he only wants to do three debates with McCain. Get Over It, your man is a lost cause, hes sinking in the polls because people are finally opening their eyes to his lies–he calls them flip-flops–and asking themselves the hard question, who is better prepared to run this country, its a no-brainer. Without Hillary in the race, we have handed the White House over to the republicans once again. If these two men are the only choice, we have no choice as Americans but to vote republican this year. We cannot allow Obama to come anywhere near the White House, this Chicago style, win at all cost, take down all opponents, voter fraud, dirty dealing thug, has no place to go but down.



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E.Y.Restituto

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:42 pm


Thank you Rick Warren, your work is highly appreciated! You’ve help the people to have a clearer picture what these beloved candidates stand for. God bless you!



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Cal Bob

posted August 18, 2008 at 11:58 pm


A few questions:
Did Rick Warren know at the time that McCain was not where/when he was supposed to be?
When Mr. McCain left all of us, including Rick Warren, with the impression that he was in the “cone of silence,” did he commit a lie of omission?
Why was Mr. McCain late to something as important as this?



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indielaura

posted August 19, 2008 at 12:23 am


Those who say Obama didn’t answer his question on abortion clearly are those who wanted to here him say “I’m pro-life”. He wasn’t going to say that so they weren’t going to be satified with his answers. But again for the viewing audience at home, it is clear who will protect a woman’s right to choose and who doesn’t. No woman who supports abortion rights can vote for McCain when there are anywhere from 2-3 vacancies comimg up on the Supreme Court. McCain messed hiself up with pro-choice moderates Saturday. Plenty of soundbites to be made into comercial by Planned Parenthood and NARAL. Some Evangelical’s aren’t the only people who made up their minds, people like me did too. FYI, Obama is currently winning the majority of self-identified Christians already and McCain currently is 11 points behind Bush with white evangelicals. Obama doesn’t need the far right fringe.



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ds0490

posted August 19, 2008 at 12:51 am


“That’s absolutely a lie, absolutely a lie. That room was totally free, with no monitors–a flat out lie.”
Really? The only way to know that, Rev. Warren, is if you had video surveillance of the room while the show was going on. If that be the case, would you mind providing a copy of the tape so it can be reviewed by *independent* sources? That would certainly put to rest the rumors and innuendo.



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ds0490

posted August 19, 2008 at 12:57 am


One other question I would love to ask Rev. Warren. If you believe that abortion is murder, what would you do to try to stop them from taking place? Would you lie? Would you manipulate public opinion? Would you cover for John McCain?
How far would you go to save the lives of some 4,000 children who die from abortion daily, Rev. Warren? Would you lie about McCain cheating?



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Sanjay Mathur

posted August 19, 2008 at 12:59 am


You know, that was my first time seeing Rick Warren, and hearing him. I liked him. Questions were excellent, his attitude was really great… However, I then read this interview and realize he is a captive man. Look, loving God is about a lot more than being anti-abortion. Any spiritual person knows that – look at Jesus himself, if being anti-abortion were so important, why didn’t he say more about it? It is because because being anti-abortion does not equate to loving God, having a spiritual life – and seeing and serving God in mankind. Jesus’ conception of life was much greater than a feeling for the “unborn” – He loved the world, all nature, all sentient beings. This comes out clearly in the Gospels… Pastor Rick is a great – he is also a human being. I can’t work on people’s spirituality – he can, and that’s what he should do – and not carried away by politics and anti-abortion/pro-life stances that are purely political.



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benjamin1943

posted August 19, 2008 at 1:24 am


Contray to what several people are sayinng, Obama clearly stated in the interview by Reverend Wilson that he is not in favor of abortion. I think it would be fair to say that like many Democrates he is not in
favor of abortions but is against overturning Rowe vs. Wade. Overturning Rowe vs. Wade would just drive abortions into “back alleys”. There are better ways to reduce abortions. Providing support
for women who are on their own and cannot quit their jobs or pay the
medical bills to have and care for a baby would be one way. Providing
information on birth control would be another. It seems to me that the
people in the very wealthy crowd at Saddleback, who seem so absolutely
confident that they will go to heaven, will never have to face this
issue. They can enjoy sexual relations with their spouses and give
birth to and comfortably support and spoil a dozen children apiece.
Some other people have to be concerned about having a child that they
cannot properly support and care for with the mimium daily requirements.
Furthermore Obama has also said that he would sign a bill preventing
late term abortions if it made allowance for situations where the life
of the mother was an issue. What is the matter? Were the crownd at
Saddleback and the political analysts only listening for what they
WANTED to hear, or weren’t they able to follow answers of more than
five words per sentence.
Reverend Warren is all bent out of shape that Obama could not give him
an answer to the question of when life begins (or actually his question was more like “when does a baby get civil rights?” I am surprised that he didn’t ask the question “How many angles can dance on the head of a pin?” If I were Reverend Warren I would not want to die and get before God and have to say “I was so busy pandering to my weathly flock who were trying to make Rowe vs. Wade the main issue that I didn’t rub there faces in the fact that they should have been donating the money they were saving from their tax cuts to organizations (like Birthright) that support women who don’t want to have abortions.



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Trixie36

posted August 19, 2008 at 1:28 am


First of all, i welcomed the forum – it’s another method we can learn more about the two candidates.
Second, at first I wasn’t totally crazy about the idea that it was held at a church (because i believe in separation of church and state), but in the end i didn’t see a problem w/it.
a) yes, it’s held at a church, but us the taxpapers are NOT paying for it. b) it’s a decent “stage” like most others (for a forum or a debate).
Third, other people say it shouldn’t be held at a church because we shouldn’t mix politics and religion. Well,
1) no specific religion was pushed onto them.
2) {this is key for me}: There was a survey done sometime earlier this year that said 75-85% of American people consider themselves religious. Therefore, there is NOTHING wrong to wanting to find out how the candidates feel about their FAITH (and God)!!!! There are various (Christian) religions out there and by knowing more about their FAITH, that helps inform us about THEIR CHARACTER!!! (I myself am not Evangelical, I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian {the orginal CHRISTIAN FAITH}, which is 2000 years old and is directly connected all the way back to Christ and the original apstoles!
In fact, at Pope John Paul’s funeral, there were Greek Orthodox high priests chanting over the Pope, the only non-catholic clergy allowed, because “the Pope recognized his Catholic roots stemming from their breaking away (the Great Schism – means ‘ripping apart’ in greek) from Eastern Orthodoxy in 1054″!!!!!
My point on this matter is, even thou i am of a different faith, i didn’t have a problem that it was held at this church w/Rick Warren (in fact, he did a fine job), because we would like to find out more about these men!!
3) Finally, BECAUSE people do hold religious beliefs, it IS a HUGE part of the political candidate; it is like breathing – the only time it wouldn’t matter is if someone is an athiest (and that’s a small %)…! But because OVER 75% or higher believe in a supreme being, then IT MATTERS!!!
So DON’T discriminate AGAINIST Christians (even if i am of a DIFFERENT faith)! I have a RIGHT to learn more about Obama and McCain (as we should all do for the health of OUR COUNTRY!!!
PS. DON’T GIVE OUR COUNTRY AWAY – we declared Independence from England over 200 years ago for LESS taxations and restrictions…!!! Many of us have FORGOTTON that!!! Let’s NOT RETREAT!!!)!



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Bezzis Quinones

posted August 19, 2008 at 2:25 am


Who is the ‘source at the debate’? Why don’t the ‘source’ speak up so that truth can be heard? When someone is not willing to come forward, a comment without any kind of backup looses its credibility and it is simply a malicious ‘gossip’. It can not be taken seriously, unless someone is willing to put his/her credibility on the line. What’s more amazing are the comments all over the blogs, as if this was a fact that has been proven.
The truth is that nothing that was said by any of the candidates was anything new. Their positions on the issues were just more clear to the public, but pretty much consistent with what each of them had openly supported during their campaigns. So, what’s the advantage McCain could have had? I don’t believe either one would have said anything different anyways. I read at another blog from someone who said she thought McCain’s stories were rehearsed. No kidding!!! It’s called life experiences!!! No one could recall them better than the person who lived through them.
I thought both candidates did a terrific job, and two thumbs up to Pastor Warren for taking this initiative. If someone believes it should have not been done, oh well, just don’t watch the show. As for the rest of us, we were interested in what they both had to say in this type of forum. It was better than the so ‘bitter’ debates that one usually have to see in order to get informed on their positions on the issues.



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Samantha

posted August 19, 2008 at 5:28 am


I think Rick Warren should be honest, and stop acting as if he doesn’t support McCain.
White Evangelicals are Republicans. while they will listen to democrats at a Forum, they are still Republicans. And to make believe they are open to democrats who are pro choice is silly.
Rick Warren is a hypocrit. He can’t for sure say McCain did or did not do anything. He’s not God and he did not see anything.
Also, if one is against genocide of innocent babies, one is against war against innocent people in an innocent country and Nuclear proliferation. White Evangelicals call themselves Christians but they are Christian Republican, and should not pretend otherwise.



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glwise

posted August 19, 2008 at 8:29 am


I hope he makes this No 1 also:
Bombing innocent children and pregnant women in war is a crime. Especially laser bombing them indescriminantly.
God will ask these holy brothers why they care about the child before is born and forget about him/her after he/she is born or drop bombs on him/her



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Endless Road

posted August 19, 2008 at 9:36 am


Regarding the “Sour Grapes”, who brought up the “cone of silence” in the first place? WARREN! Well, was McCain in a “cone of silence”…or not? It isn’t that hard of a question…I mean, if Obama needs to pop out where life begins, can’t Paster Warren figure out if there actually was a “cone of silence?”
Did Warren have no control over his own event?



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Phil

posted August 19, 2008 at 10:07 am


froglady.What do you consider to be an “emergency” abortion? A rape pregnancy? There must be literally hundreds of these.How about unfavourable financial circumstances for the mother to be? This must number thousands.How many times have you heard about teenage pregnancies which would be solved had there been a early abortion? People are so quick to condemn and scoff at teeage pregnancy but offer little or no support to the mother to be in question.For them abortion is a no go regardless of the circumstances. These so called men of God need to seriously withdraw from influence in politcal life also. A candidate should be judged upon his ability to govern and lead.not his personal belief.As JFK once said.”My religion should be only important to me.”



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Travis

posted August 19, 2008 at 1:00 pm


Why are we not asking questions like, “How can you be absolutely prolife but still support war?” “How are dropping bombs on women and children any different than aborting a child.” WAR IS NOT PROLIFE!



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Froglady

posted August 19, 2008 at 1:16 pm


Phil,
I consider an ‘emergency’ abortion to be something like an ectopic pregnancy; a pregnancy where the mother’s life is at risk and/or a pregnancy where the fetus is so malformed that it would not survive after birth or where it’s quality of life would be severely hampered. The latter, of course, would have to be a decision made by the parent(s).
And, most teens know very early on if they’re pregnant and could get an abortion in the 40-day window. However, I agree with you about the lack of support, etc.



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Brian Gilmore

posted August 19, 2008 at 1:25 pm


The real question is, even if you want to outlaw abortion, how do you stop it. You won’t stop it. Some people believe life begins at conception but still have abortions because they believe they should not have to be forced basically, at the threat of prison, to have a child they don’t want. Basically, they are saying, they are prepared to take it to God when the pass from earth. In other words, if we cross the line and threaten patients with jail time if they have an abortion, this society is going to all apart totally. The next step will be, you cannot use a condom, you cannot take a pill, you cannot use an IUD, you cannot use anything because God sent that life here, and you are stopping these lives. Don’t get afraid if Roe v. Wade is overturned because Griswold is next. Women won’t be able to use the pill because it stops lives.



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Greg

posted August 19, 2008 at 3:06 pm


As far as Rick War-ren and McWAR is concerned its all depends on what the word IS-IS….
Warren said “WE” have put McWARmonger inside of a “cone of silence…and in this case it depends on what the word WE-IS
Rick WAR-ren is a BIG FRAUD and a LIAR to boot, and he is compounding the LIE by not coming clean.
What a web we do achieve when we practice to DECEIVE



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L.G

posted August 19, 2008 at 3:40 pm


Dems sure are sore losers. The warren interview was totally fair. Mccain never heard Obamarama and let’s say that he did; there would have been nothing there that he would want to use. Mccain, thank God, is so far apart from Obamarama who does not care about human life. Obamarama even lied during the interview when he said that voting against the war was his big decision. He DIDN’T vote on this; he wasn’t even in the Senate then. Also, he referenced a few Bible quotes that his advisors told him to use, to sound like a Christian, but he is all Muslim and liberation theology that he learned from Wright. He has promised to raise taxes. I deeply pity this country if the liberal dems get what they want. Greg above is not really smart, just a guy caught up in word play.



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L.G

posted August 19, 2008 at 3:43 pm


in answer to the questin above about war and abortion. Of course they are different. Abortion is an act of murder against those who are totally innocent and faultless. War is an act of aggression against those who have oppressed and murdered. End of story. DUH!



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John

posted August 19, 2008 at 3:48 pm


Is war just in any case, many on the right seem to think so, it’s a deception beyond belief.
A preacher of righteousness once said:
“From the statement in Rom. 13:10, that “love worketh no ill to his neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,” it will be seen that Christian love does not possibly admit of wars and fightings. Its possession makes it impossible for one to say, as is frequently said in these days, “I have been an advocate of peace and arbitration for twenty-five years, but”—and then go on to say that under such provocation as now exists war is welcomed.
“Love worketh no ill to his neighbor;” and no philosophy can ever make it appear that it does a man any good to kill him. When the soldiers asked John the Baptist what they should do, as followers of the Lamb of God, to whom he pointed, he replied, “Do violence to no man.” Luke 3:14. Those who asked were “soldiers on service,” as we see from the margin of the Revised Version. And the margin also gives as the alternative rendering of John’s answer, “Put no man in fear.” It would be a very mild war in which this command was followed. Love never does any harm to anybody; but love is active, since it is the life of God; therefore love is always doing good. Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, “went about doing good.”



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E M

posted August 19, 2008 at 4:08 pm


Will someone in the media please read one of James Cone’s books and then ask Obama’s how they stayed in a church for 20 yrs is based on Cone’s anti-white and anti-America beliefs



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joy316

posted August 19, 2008 at 5:16 pm


A question is it unconscionable for a CHRISTIAN to vote for John McCain. My answer is to turn to the Bible and Pray for guidance. First who is John McCain with respect to faith? He claims to be both a Baptist and an Episcopalian but I do not believe that a religious denomination is the key to heaven. Jesus said that “For each tree is known by its own fruit.(Luke 6:44) What fruit has McCain produced? He was in the bottom 5 of his graduating class at the naval academy. He committed adultery and abandoned his family after returning from Vietnam because his wife had been in an auto accident and did not look the same. He was a member of the Keating 5 that cost the country billions. He was a republican when both houses, the Supreme Court and the presidency were republican, yet failed to reverse Roe v. Wade. He supports the continued economic policies that have shifted money from lower and middle class to the very wealthy. He makes a joke of bombing another country and shows disrespect for human life. I ask again, how can a Christian, in good conscious, vote for John McCain?



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Janick

posted August 19, 2008 at 5:25 pm


So called Christians would vote for Satan as long as he had a R before his name.



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Greg

posted August 19, 2008 at 6:53 pm


About BUSH, McCain, Warren
“Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.” –Voltaire
Go to You Tube write George Carlin, Religion together and enjoy the TRUTH!!!!!



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Dave in Escondido

posted August 19, 2008 at 11:12 pm


The trouble with Obama’s answer to the question of when a fetus gets human rights is that he didn’t point out that there is no clean correct answer to that question. It’s rather like the issue of when does a person get voting rights. Everyone agrees that a five-year-old should not be treated as competent to vote, and everyone agrees that 30-years-olds should be treated as competent. The dividing line between competent and not competent is drawn differently in different countries and has been drawn differently in the past. In the US the line is 18 years of age, but in the past it was 21.
I think it is pretty obvious that there is no one correct age, but that there is a reasonable range that almost all can agree on. The answer then becomes political, rather than philosophical, and we live with the realization that any choice we make is going to deny the vote to some who are genuinely capable of the responsibility that goes with it and at the same time give the vote to some who are not yet ready for it.
With regard to abortion, I think almost everyone agrees that a newborn full-term baby deserves protection from being killed. The difficulty in having a society-wide conversation about the subject lies on the other end, conception. Those in our society who either recognize no holy book or who do not take it literally cannot embrace the life-begins-at-conception viewpoint, for they find it impossible to justify protection for a group of undifferentiated cells with no nervous system, no ability to think, no ability to feel pain. (These assertions are implicitly accepted by anyone, pro-life or not, who is willing to cut off a respirator that is keeping alive a patient who is completely brain dead. They key point is that there is no neurological activity, regardless of the fact that individual cells are alive.) For them the question then resembles the voting age question: they are clear about the extremes (no protection at conception, full protection at birth), but have a hard time deciding where to draw the line, even as they realize it is their burden as citizens to draw the line somewhere.
Obama erred significantly up on this point. The questions is not “above his pay grade”; the drawing of the line along a continuum is a decision, and we all must make it together. But the key point is, there is no single correct answer. The continuum is real; the exact line is arbitrary.
There is little someone with this outlook can say to someone who takes as an unquestioned article of faith the proposition that an embryo deserves full protection from harm from the moment of conception. But there are a few points that can be made to give that someone pause.
1) The moment of conception is not really a moment. The transition from separate sperm and egg to unified cell is actually a series of steps (see http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/when-an-embryo.html).
2. If one is worried that allowing abortions up to a certain stage in fetal development will accidentally fail to protect some fetuses that on a neurological basis should be protected, I can only admit that yes, that is possible. But as a society we allow actions that put innocent children at risk all the time. We spend less than we could on building safety — we don’t demolish and rebuild every building that is less than perfectly safe — and occasionally a child dies as a result. We legislate speed limits far above those that would be 100% safe, and we do so in the name of convenience. We go out to eat and go to the movies and buy nice clothes, all with money that could be spent on health care for infants whose parents cannot afford it. If those choices are acceptable (and they clearly are to most of us), if we can knowingly elect a President who tolerates them, then why can we not elect a President whose position on abortion has the same effect? We as a society always trade some health and welfare for some convenience.
3. Since a large percentage of fetuses are spontaneously aborted and we know that to be the case, isn’t the very decision to become pregnant itself a willful participation in the abortion of millions of innocent human lives? A woman could prevent those abortions by never getting pregnant; it is within her power to stop them. Do we not simply decide that having children is important enough to justify the guaranteed deaths?
4. Do the scriptural verses have such authority and clarity that they deserve to be respected in light of the scientific details that are known? Are there no other parts of scripture that are just as clear but that are thankfully disregarded or tacitly ignored in order that society be allowed to function? Why are they treated differently? Does science matter here?
5. By claiming faith in scripture as your basis for decision, you are locking yourself out of the conversation with the rest of us who do not share your faith or even respect the notion that faith is admirable. To those of us who sincerely worry about the morality of these kinds of issues, your easy confidence that you have been vouchsafed the correct answer has about as much credibility as the declarations that aliens speak to your through your toothbrush and tell you what to do. It could be true, but it does nothing to change our hearts and minds; a reasoned argument about suffering and compassion might do so.



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joy316

posted August 20, 2008 at 12:56 am


Rick Warren has troubled me from the time I discovered that Rupert Murdoch was a member of his church. Murdoch makes millions per year peddling smut on Fox and in the Porn business.
http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/1971/Ken_Silva



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Greg

posted August 20, 2008 at 3:30 am


One has to wonder if Rick knows that PORN causes more abortions than anything else thru misinformation to young horny kids. Rick is a FRAUD pastor as I have said from the beginning.



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Greg

posted August 20, 2008 at 3:37 am


Forum question to Rick Warren:
Mr Warren, what have you done as Murdochs PASTOR to turn Rupert Murdoch away from the PORN business? Are you sure that the dollars Murdoch donates to your FRAUD CULT is not porn dollars?



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JAB

posted August 20, 2008 at 10:11 am


One other small comment on the so-called ‘cone of silence.” Rick Warren is defensive about it. He should be repentative. He should just say, “Announcing the ‘cone of silence’ was a mistake. I admit it.” And he should leave it at that.



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Janick

posted August 20, 2008 at 6:07 pm


Dear Pastor Warren,
You lied to the American people – and that is a deep, deep disappointment.
I took you at your word when you said to America on television last Saturday night that John McCain was in a cone of silence while you were speaking with Barack Obama.
But he wasn’t.
He was completely free, unfettered, and in his own limousine with all the access to any communication devices he desired.
You lied to us. Even in the very best interpretation, you deliberately misled us.
Where is your spirituality now? Where is your moral accountability? Where is your humility, your common decency?
You may take all the umbrage you wish about the criticism leveled against you for this, but that fact remains: you lied to us.
You disgraced my faith.
You owe every American, and particularly those of faith, an apology.
JM



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Greg

posted August 21, 2008 at 2:10 pm


Didn’t Jesus “pastor” prostitutes and thieves? Think about it before you post stupidity.



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Terri

posted August 24, 2008 at 12:44 pm


I was disappointed that Pastor Rick didn’t advise McCain to not use stump speeches for answers. Also, it seemed that McCain was “too prepared”. He jumped the gun, so to speak, on certain questions. Plus, McCain’s “stories” may not be the complete truth. For instance, Cindy McCain NEVER met or spoke with Mother Teresa. The story he told of his daughter’s adoption was manipulated. I think Rick Warren should speak to McCain about manipulating a religious forum with outright lies.



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Suzanne

posted August 24, 2008 at 3:13 pm


I was disappointed when Pastor Warren referred to anti-abortion evangelicals as simply pro-life. This is misleading, as polls consistantly show us that most people who are against abortion are ardent death penalty supports. It seems to me that the only people who warrant the “pro-life” label are those that are opposed to abortion, the death penalty, and assisted suicide. Therefore, I think, people that are opposed to abortion should be called anti-abortion or pro-birth….not pro-life.



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MARIA

posted August 24, 2008 at 9:52 pm


He is typical Pastor. One mouth speak about GOD and his second mouth speak the untrue. I know Obama was being set up when they announce a meeting in a netural place. He knew McCain was not in a cone of silence booth before hand. He just a typical Lying Pastor, Obama should not have been so trusting in him. I wonder how many houses he has.



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Annette

posted August 26, 2008 at 6:41 pm


I’m sure Rick Warren is not a man of God! I do not see any signs of the Spirit of the Living God within him. He is just one of the many false religious leaders who has scattered the Flock called unto Jesus. God warned us of these days. (11Thess-2-3-12)



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Annette

posted August 26, 2008 at 7:08 pm


If I’m not mistaken Rick Warren supported Bush #1 and Bush #2. Did he tell you (Rev-21-1-2) No man, or no Government can bring in the New World? Holy God and Him has this Power! Remember satan shows himself as God, and the Bush Men believed his lies! How can you believe anything that comes from Rick Warren’s mouth? Watch this:
thttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8259800846851144110



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Annette

posted August 28, 2008 at 1:29 pm


Something Rick Warren doesn’t tell the Church, he talks, but he says Nothing. He should tell the members of ‘his’ church the Truth about God and His Ways. He talks about saving the life for the unborn baby, but he says nothing about saving the Life of those already been born. Between the Government and the Church, the Truth has been hidden as to how God see America! According to His WORD, Every life is important, not just the unborn baby. Do the people know, The United States is the First County in the world to develop Nuclear Weapons, and the ONLY Nation in the World to Use them in War against another Nation? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_the_United_States
America jusifies Herself when she drops her bombs on another Nation, killing hundreds of thousands while destroying their land, when the damage is done, the military comes home as American Hero’s. However, when a nation, without weapons of mass destruction strap bombs to themselves, to kill an American, they are called Terrorist. As Bush says, Axes of Evil. People Wake Up, Every Nation across this World has every Right to HATE America. I believe Obama’s LOVE for PEOPLE, could Help those who love God, Rebuild this Nation, that once again, all Nations shall call America Blessed, a delightsome land as God Promised.
(Malachi-3-7-12)



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Joyfulone

posted August 30, 2008 at 9:44 am


Rick Warren’s Saddleback event again displayed how gullible Christians can be. And how intolerant. The audience was not looking to understand the candidates. They were just looking for them to mouth the acceptable credo of faith. McCain did that, but without providing anything in depth. It sounded as if he was prepped before hand. And about that “cone of silence”, from what I understand McCain was in his limo listening to the interview with Barack Obama rather than sitting, as we were told, in the cone of silence. If this was not an out-right setup as some have claimed, McCain obviously did not play fair. Do Christians like a man who tells them to their faces what they want to hear while cheating to get the answers? Is McCain believable? I don’t think he is. I do think that many Christians are very gullible.



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Fenray

posted August 30, 2008 at 11:59 pm


This was an extremely interesting forum because it shed light not only on the views of both candidates, but also on the way they think and therefore arrive at those views. My take on this is that John McCain is a nice man who puts a priority on courage and doing one’s duty. These are admirable priorities. Barack Obama appears to be a decent person who genuinely cares about others. I must say I was very impressed by the thoughtfulness of his answers. In as far as this interview relates to the question of who would make the better president, I personally feel much more comfortable with the idea of someone who thinks deeply about an issue and solicits the opinion of others to ensure that all angles have been covered before making a decision, as opposed to someone who has a pre-determined idea of Right and Wrong and therefore makes a quick but potentially misguided decision. We are in far too delicate of a position on many fronts to risk taking the wrong actions. John McCain has served this country well in many ways, but he is just not the right person to be President at this time. Thanks, but no thanks Senator McCain.



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Kay

posted August 31, 2008 at 8:13 pm


Why do people automatically criticize and suspect that McCain had an advantage? Were you there? Did you witness it yourself? If not, then according to the Bible you must not say anything. If you did, it is up to you to go directly to the person who made the mistake and take it up with them. NOT with the entire world without taking it up with them first.
That’s how rumors and erroneous emails get started. Before you open your mouth, or type a sentence, stop and think – What Would Jesus Do?



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Annette

posted September 1, 2008 at 11:14 am


Kay, in case you don’t know, we weren’t there but we have ears to hear! McCain’s Election effects not only America, but the World. He already talks about War against Iran, and Russia. Where are we going to get the Military or the Money to fight more of his Wars. People better speak out, Elected John McCain if all you want is War! What would Jesus do? He would tell you, Blessed are the Peace Makers!



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Ben

posted September 3, 2008 at 1:31 am


Senator Fred Thompson has a peculiar idea of what good character is. At the Republican National Convention After saying proudly that John McCain was a major discipline problem (giving credit to his genetics, i.e. mother and father), and telling a story about his dating a girl who worked in a bar as an exotic dancer under the name of Marie, the Flame of Florida, he tells us that his behavior as a prisoner of war further proves his character. According to an article favorable to John McCain, called Prisoner of war by
Dan Nowicki, Bill Muller in The Arizona Republic on Mar. 1, 2007 10:32 AM, McCain says that after being beaten (note he was not water-boarded, just beaten) he signed a confession saying “I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors.”
I am sure that John McCain like many others, including John Kerry, is a war hero, but details of John war stories seems to change to fit the Republican priorities of the moment.
The stories that seems to never change are that John was fifth from the bottom of his class and a disciplinary problem at the Navel Academy, leading other young men into undisciplined behavior, including undisciplined behavior involving women; and, believe it or not he and the Republicans are proud of all this. Furthermore, let’s not forget that he committed a string of adulteries against his first wife who had waited for him during his time as a prisoner of war and then divorced her.
I don’t get it. It is the Republican’s who are always talking about setting examples for our youth. Here is yet another example of what they think is a good example.



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Stephen

posted September 3, 2008 at 4:13 pm


For someone who “believes that the Bible is literal” Rev. Warren’s quoting of scripture is either terribly sloppy or deliberately deceptive. His rendering of Psalm 139 is problematic to say the least. He conflates verse 13 with verse 16, substitutes “You” with “I”, and he uses a particularly slanted translation of verse 16. Look up Psalm 139:16 in your favorite translation, and chances are you’ll hardly recognize it as the same verse he quoted above.
For a scholar’s perspective on 139:16 see:
http://www.cresourcei.org/psa139.html
I thought Rev. Warren did an impressive job interviewing Senators Obama and McCain — he really helped voters see where the candidates stand. I’m a lot less impressed with him now.



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Mills

posted September 6, 2008 at 10:12 pm


I cannot understand when so much was at stake for this forum, that McCain did not have to be at the church prior to the time that Obama was questioned, and that he was not placed in a guarded room to be sure that there were no questions about the “cone of silence”. I felt that McCain acted like he knew what the questions were. He was far too quick to answer and did not respond like he normally does. I am disappointed that Rick Warren did not do a better job on making sure mcCain did not hear the questions.
The Republicans will do anything..remember Watergate!



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becky

posted September 11, 2008 at 9:55 am


McCain has admitted wrong doings and has repented and can not go back and undo. God does forgive a sincere heart and no longer remembers. Yet, we humans can not forget and keep bringing up anything we know about someones past and using it against them and love doing this. Just how many people, us need forgiveness after confessing and repenting and not repeating? There will always be people pointing their fingers and a continuation of bringing up past sins after God has already forgiven and forgotten and would like for us to do the same. Or- maybe we just don’t want God or others to forgive us….Is that correct?



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eileen smith

posted September 23, 2008 at 1:41 pm


Abortion is a decision that every women has to make according to her own conscious. I am 65 years old and remember when abortion was illegal. The truth is, women still had abortions and found someone to perform it. Making abortion against the law will not guarantee or assure the birth of a child. I do not believe that the government should pay for the abortion, but I know that if a women feels that decision is in her best interest for whatever her reasons, she will find a way to abort. And yes, she may be a christian!



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Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg

posted September 30, 2008 at 6:24 pm


Women should be forced to have babies against their will and shouldn’t be allowed to have jobs, unless they are religious kooks who love to kill things, then they can be vice-president. Everyone but neocons are stupid. War is the answer to all foreign policy just as guns are to all domestic issues. If you pretend to be good and listen to someone ramble about an insane mythology every week you get to live forever in the clouds after you die. Science is crazy, not me. Just because I spew hate, misinformation, and juvenile smack talk doesn’t make me an asshole and a troll. It’s because I’m an asshole and a troll that I do that stuff.



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ftr U.S. Army

posted October 7, 2008 at 2:37 pm


People, people…You are so so blind. Are you going to live forever in your present flesh type body? No!People live and people DIE;period.
No one not even YOU will escape death. Your Soul will live somewhere. Either in HELL or HEAVEN. It is NOW…this is the time in your life where you make your final step. “I will or I will not chose”. There is no middle road.By not making a chose, you have made a chose.”The fool has said in his heart there is no GOD.”
Just think about this thing called life. JESUS CHRIST, he and HE alone is the only way to Heaven. Not just anyway but the one and only WAY. You MuST ask HIM to forgive you for your SIN in YOUR heart. If you are truly sorry for your SIN and ask JESUE, by faith, to come into your heart, HE will. But, You MUST believe in JESUS CHRIST and HIS WORD (the HOLY BIBLE)and What HE did for YOU on the cross. I am going to HEAVEN…..Will YOU Join ME!!!!!!!!Please Pray and ask JESUS into your heart, righ NOW.!!!!!



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Matthew

posted November 5, 2008 at 6:33 pm


I was disappointed that none of the candidates was asked their views concerning our relationship with the State of israel? I have an idea where McCain stood as far as Israel is concern, but not Obama. And yes, I do believe that McCain knew the answers before hand. It was just a total waste of Obama’s time…



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ThereseJDanielsson

posted November 10, 2008 at 10:31 pm


Not even a week after the president election the blond topblogger from Sweden, Linda Ekholm speaks out loud about Obama!
And I really believe this is truly written by heart. Scary!
http://www.finest.se/userBlog/?uid=30701&beid=1040511



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Gods Plan

posted December 18, 2008 at 10:45 pm


If God does say that:
‘I formed you in your mother’s womb and before you were born I planned every day of your life’
Then God planned their abortion.



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Your Name

posted January 5, 2009 at 3:43 pm


The comment posted at the very top is pure blasphemy. I am a very happy PREGNANT 20 year old. And I’m already a mother of three. I have a great job in social work. I love the Lord with all my heart. I struggled with an abusive husband since I was 15 and just recently was able to get away from his very violent abuse. Obviously I dont believe in abortion. I don’t see how someone can kill a baby just as nonshalauntly as getting a tumor removed. Having three children of my own I can understand how hard it would be for any one with human emotions to give a child up for adoption. I think many of you share my belief that if you don’t want to be a mother DON’T have unprotected sex. Abstain its that easy.I do like some of Obama’s points of view, that is if he is being honest. After all I’ve been through I can still praise the Lord everyday and find at least 4 things to be thankful for…. my kids. Yes the one in my uterus is a child not a fetus.



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Your Name

posted January 5, 2009 at 3:52 pm


Sorry its not blasphemy I got confused the site didn’t show all the comments. I don’t see why they don’t just call it pro-death or pro-murder.



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sweet pea

posted January 27, 2009 at 11:30 pm


Sorry, but God does give us all a free will. He did not put us here to kill babies. I know all the stories in the Old Testiment, and how people do not understand, I didn’t use to understand either, and maybe we don’t have to understand every little thing in the Bible, but I do know this… When Jesus came, he was the final and last, and the best God had to give us. We were not good enough to save ourselves from hell, and the sins of satan and his band of demons, but Jesus, God’s only begotten Son. The last sacrifice. The only one we would ever need again taught us to not kill, he did it through love and guidance.
I know people choose to say they don’t believe in Him, but He has accomplished more then any other human who ever lived. More books have been written about Him, He has more followers then any other man, and he’s been gone 2000 years, He is more loved then anyone. He has made the largest single impact on the entire human race of anyone, and it’s still alive and well, because his Holy Spirit is still alive and well, and will not die.
It is wrong to kill babies, because God knew us before we were ever even concieved. Now think on that!



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