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Common Word, Common Lord

Common Word, Common Lord

Think Muslims Haven’t Condemned ISIS? Think Again

In the Name of God: the Infinitely Merciful and Compassionate Lord

A very common, oft-repeated mantra among pundits and “experts” is that Muslims haven’t roundly condemned the extremism committed in Islam’s name. So many times, we hear people saying, “Where are the Muslim voices in condemnation?” “Why aren’t Muslims speaking up against extremists like ISIS?”

Well, the fact is, Muslims have been speaking out against ISIS and other extremist groups. The problem is, some times, people either don’t know or choose not to know this fact. Enter in this excellent post by Media Matters For America, which documents the round condemnation of ISIS by Muslim groups all across the world:

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The Organization Of Islamic Cooperation: The Islamic State Has “Nothing To Do With Islam,” Has Committed Crimes “That Cannot Be Tolerated.” As the Vatican’s internal news source reported, the Secretary General for the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, which represents 1.4 billion Muslims in 57 countries around the world, condemned the Islamic State’s persecution of of Christians and other religious minorities in Iraq, saying the “forced deportation under the threat of execution” is a “crime that cannot be tolerated.” According to the Vatican:

The Secretary General also distanced Islam from the actions of the militant group known as ISIS, saying they ‘have nothing to do with Islam and its principles that call for justice, kindness, fairness, freedom of faith and coexistence.’ [Vatican Radio, 7/25/14]

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Al-Azhar: Islamic State Is Corrupt And “A Danger To Islam.” Lebanese paper The Daily Star reported that Al-Azhar’s Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt’s highest religious authority, denounced the Islamic State as a threat to Islam and said that the group both violates Sharia law and humanitarian law: “[They] give an opportunity for those who seek to harm us, to destroy us and interfere in our affairs with the [pretext of a] call to fight terrorism.” [The Daily Star, 8/13/14]

Arab League: “Strongly Denounced” The “Crimes Against Humanity” Carried Out By The Islamic State. On August 11, Nabil al-Arabi, the Arab League Chief, denounced acts committed by the Islamic State in Iraq as “crimes against humanity,” demanding that they be brought to justice. According to Al Arabiya News, he said in a statement that he “strongly denounced the crimes, killings, dispossession carried out by the terrorist (ISIS) against civilians and minorities in Iraq that have affected Christians in Mosul and Yazidis.” [Al Arabiya News, 8/11/14]

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Turkey’s Top Cleric: Islamic State’s Threats Are “Hugely Damaging,” “Truly Awful.” Turkey’s highest ranking cleric, Mehmet Gormez, decried the Islamic State’s declaration of a “caliphate” and argued that the statements were damaging to the Muslim community, according to Reuters:

“Such declarations have no legitimacy whatsoever,” Mehmet Gormez, head of the Religious Affairs Directorate, the highest religious authority in Turkey, which, although a majority Muslim country, has been a secular state since the 1920s.

“Since the caliphate was abolished … there have been movements that think they can pull together the Muslim world by re-establishing a caliphate, but they have nothing to do with reality, whether from a political or legal perspective.”

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Gormez said death threats against non-Muslims made by the group, formerly known as Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), were hugely damaging.

“The statement made against Christians is truly awful. Islamic scholars need to focus on this (because) an inability to peacefully sustain other faiths and cultures heralds the collapse of a civilization,” he told Reuters in an interview. [Reuters, 7/22/14]

CAIR Repeatedly Condemned The Islamic State As “Un-Islamic And Morally Repugnant.” In a July 7 statement, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) called the terrorist group “un-Islamic and morally repugnant,” noted that the Islamic State’s “human rights abuses on the ground are well-documented,” and called on other Muslim community leaders to speak out against the violence. CAIR reiterated the condemnation of the Islamic State as “both un-Islamic and morally repugnant” on August 11, and on August 21, CAIR once again condemned the group, calling the killing of American journalist James Foley “gruesome and barbaric”:

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We strongly condemn this gruesome and barbaric killing as a violation of Islamic beliefs and of universally-accepted international norms mandating the protection of prisoners and journalists during conflicts.

The Geneva Conventions, the Quran – Islam’s revealed text – and the traditions (hadith) of the Prophet Muhammad all require that prisoners not be harmed in any way. There can be no excuse or justification for such criminal and bloodthirsty actions.

We also call on those holding Steven Sotloff and other prisoners to immediately release them unharmed so they may return to their loved ones. [Council on American-Islamic Relations, 7/7/14; Council on American-Islamic Relations, 8/11/14; Council on American-Islamic Relations, 8/20/14]

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The Muslim Council Of Great Britain: “Violence Has No Place In Religion.” The Muslim Council of Great Britain condemned the Islamic State’s actions and expressed that they do not represent Sunni Muslims, according to The Independent. Shuja Shafi, a member of the council also said: “Violence has no place in religion, violence has no religion. It is prohibited for people to present themselves for destruction.” [The Independent, 7/11/14]

The Islamic Society of North America: The Islamic State’s Actions “Are To Be Denounced And Are In No Way Representative Of What Islam Actually Teaches. The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) released a statement denouncing the Islamic State “for its attacks on Iraq’s religious minorities and the destruction of their places of worship.” ISNA President Imam Mohamed Magid said, “ISIS actions against religious minorities in Iraq violate the Quranic teaching, ‘Let there be no compulsion in religion’ (Surat al-Baqara 2:256),” adding, “Their actions are to be denounced and are in no way representative of what Islam actually teaches.” [The Islamic Society of North America, 8/9/14]

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100 Sunni And Shiite U.K. Imams: The Islamic State Is An “Illegitimate, Vicious Group.” As the Huffington Post reported, 100 Sunni and Shiite Imams from the U.K. came together to produce a video denouncing the Islamic State, releasing a statement that they wanted to “come together to emphasise the importance of unity in the UK and to decree ISIS as an illegitimate, vicious group who do not represent Islam in any way.” (Please see below)

Saudi Arabia’s Highest Religious Authority: Terrorists Like The Islamic State Is The “Number One Enemy Of Islam.” On August 19, Al Jazeera reported that Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti, Abdulaziz al-Sheikh, the country’s top religious authority, said that terrorism is anti-Islamic and said that groups like the Islamic State which practice violence are the “number one enemy of Islam”:

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Extremist and militant ideas and terrorism which spread decay on Earth, destroying human civilisation, are not in any way part of Islam, but are enemy number one of Islam, and Muslims are their first victims. [Al Jazeera, 8/19/14]

Muslim Public Affairs Council: Condemned The Islamic State And Called For “Stand Against Extremism.” On August 20, the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) released a statement condemning “the barbaric execution of American Journalist James Foley by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).” MPAC urged “all people of conscience to take a stand against extremism” and offered condolences to Foley’s family. MPAC also noted the importance of countering ISIS and other extremist groups by working “to empower the mainstream and relegate extremists to the irrelevance they deserve.” [Muslim Public Affairs Council, 8/20/14]

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So, the next time you hear someone say, “Few Muslim voices have condemned ISIS or any other extremist group,” know that this statement is clearly not true.

  • Tolerance

    Let’s see, there are billions of Muslims in the world and keep rising in number. Now, you must be a super human if you have met every single Muslim to be able to judge their actions and make such a bold claim that every Muslim in the world enjoys murdering. I am not sure why people insist (and why others continue to be brainwashed into believing) on stating that Muslim’s are terrorists simply because individuals are stating that their heinous acts are in the name of Islam. Could I commit a disgusting act, say it is in the name of Christianity (for example) and everyone condemn Christianity? Why is it that it is a whole community, a whole religion, BILLIONS of people being blamed on the actions of what could possibly be the 1% and worst of all, they are doing the COMPLETE opposite of what Islam teaches. It saddens me a lot to see such violence, such hate. I would love to say I hate ISIS, yet, Allah cannot allow such evil in my heart. I can say I hate the actions and condemn them STRONGLY. Yes, I am Muslim, yet I was not born into it. I am a revert into this beautiful religion that only teaches about acceptance, giving and love. A TRUE believer of Islam accepts Christians and Jews alike, the way it is taught in the Quran that they are on the same path, the same as we are. Do not stay ignorant people, learn the truth and take that blindfold off! ISIS is NOT a representation of Islam. In fact, their acts show how much they truly hate it. What better way to destroy something then to impersonate it and tarnish it’s reputation? Learn the truth.

  • Wouldntuliketoknow Toobad

    Nooo… How about we judge Islam by the actual acts of the people who claim it to be their religion… And that’s it- who gives a shit what the Quran says… it is the interpretation and the actions by the humans who practice it that shows the objectives. Which are obviously sheer destruction terror and world domination.

  • Wouldntuliketoknow Toobad

    Look up history- Mohammad made up the religion of Islam waaaaayyyyy after the Jews made up, the Jewish religion… Yeah I said it… All religions are made up – We have no proof of the existence of God at all let alone any proof of who’s God is the real one… Yet we continue to fight about it- foolishness- true idiocracy.

  • Wouldntuliketoknow Toobad

    This is horrible and is a demonstration that muslums are all in fact extremists- the only reason they denounce ISIS in every example above is that their behavior attracts bad attention and gives others reason to go after Islam- nowhere do I see the denouncement of the actual acts of terror/murder/destruction as being bad/wrong in themselves- each example above mentions only how they attract bad publicity which is bad for Islam- There is something inherently wrong here.

  • William Bauers
  • William Bauers
  • Jill D

    You apparently have not READ the koran, sira, and hadith in their entirety. Most current editions of koran are arranged out-of-order – by size of content, rather than in the order they were written. When arranged chronologically, you can see which verses came earlier/later, and the later verses ABROGATE /REPLACE the earlier ones. It was the later verses and hadiths, after muhammed and his pals moved to Medina, that consistently tell muslims to KILL “Kafir” (unbelievers, but in the most derogatory sense of the word – like “the N word” times ten). It is also fine to lie to, trick, deceive Kafir, rape their women and keep them as slaves, treat them like dogs, BEHEAD them (their most common method of execution even today). It is NOT “pretty much the same teachings you’ll find in the bible and the Torah.” It is pure hatred and condemnation of non-muslims, and has never been (and never will be) changed/updated. EVERYONE needs to actually READ the books of islam IN THEIR ENTIRETY to see exactly what we’re up against.

  • Guest

    HOw ’bout you read the REST of the koran, sira, and hadith, which have
    muhammed’s later statements (which abrogate/REPLACE) the earlier ones?
    In later life, muhammeed commanded muslims to kill Kafir (unbelievers)
    and that it was fine to lie to them, trick them, deceive them, in any
    way – especially if it might advance the cause of islam. This article
    is full of LIES. These organizations may SAY they “condemn” ISIS and
    their acts, but their own books CLEARLY STATE that ISIS is following
    PURE islam. It is a hate-cult that believes anyone that is not muslim
    needs to be subjugated or killed. Westerners need to learn how much
    these people DESPISE us and our entire culture, and will use any means
    of deceit to DESTROY us.

  • Jill D

    HOw ’bout you read the REST of the koran, sira, and hadith, which have muhammed’s later statements (which abrogate/REPLACE) the earlier ones? In later life, muhammeed commanded muslims to kill Kafir (unbelievers) and that it was fine to lie to them, trick them, deceive them, in any way – especially if it might advance the cause of islam. This article is full of LIES. These organizations may SAY they “condemn” ISIS and their acts, but their own books show that ISIS is following PURE islam. It is a hate-cult that believes anyone that is not muslim needs to be subjugated or killed. Westerners need to learn how much these people DESPISE us and our entire culture, and will use any means of deceit to DESTROY us.

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  • PEACE pp

    IDENTITY OF ISLAM: QURAN & SUNNA OF OUR RASOOL(SA)

    Malik :: Book 46 : Hadith 46.1.3
    Yahya related to me from Malik that he heard that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and the Sunna of His Prophet.”
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 415
    Narrated Humaid:
    I heard Muawiya bin Abi Sufyan delivering a sermon. He said, “I heard the Prophet saying, “If Allah wants to do a favor to somebody, He bestows on him, the gift of understanding the Quran and Sunna. I am but a distributor, and Allah is the Giver. The state of this nation will remain good till the Hour is established, or till Allah’s Order comes.”
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 120
    Narrated Tariq:
    ‘Abdullah said, “The best talk is Allah’s Book (Qur’an), and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad.”
    49: 1. O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), and fear Allâh. Verily! Allâh is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
    6: 21. And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.)? Verily, the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong¬doers, etc.) shall never be successful.
    Muslim :: Book 30 : Hadith 5818
    Abu Huraira reported that he heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Avoid that which I forbid you to do and do that which I command you to do to the best of your capacity.

    PEOPLE MAKING SELF LAW/BID’A PROHIBITED/SELF MAKING HARAM/PERSONAL OPINION

    28: 50. But if they answer you not (i.e. do not believe in your doctrine of Islâmic Monotheism, nor follow you), then know that they only follow their own lusts. And who is more astray than one who follows his own lusts, without guidance from Allâh? Verily! Allâh guides not the people who are Zâlimûn (wrong-doers, disobedient to Allâh, and polytheists).
    38: 26. O Dâwûd (David)! Verily! We have placed you as a successor on earth, so judge you between men in truth (and justice) and follow not your desire for it will mislead you from the Path of Allâh. Verily! Those who wander astray from the Path of Allâh (shall) have a severe torment, because they forgot the Day of Reckoning.
    45:18. Then We have put you (O Muhammad SAW) on a plain way of (Our) commandment [like the one which We commanded Our Messengers before you (i.e. legal ways and laws of the Islâmic Monotheism)]. So follow you that (Islâmic Monotheism and its laws), and follow not the desires of those who know not
    45: 23. Have you seen him who takes his own lust (vain desires) as his ilâh (god), and Allâh knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart, and put a cover on his sight. Who then will guide him after Allâh? Will you not then remember?
    30: 29. Nay, but those who do wrong follow their own lusts without knowledge, Then who will guide him whom Allâh has sent astray? And for such there will be no helpers.

    ISLAM DOES NOT LIKE WAR

    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 269, 268
    Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah:
    The Prophet said, “War is deceit.”
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 267
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    The Prophet said, “Khosrau will be ruined, and there will be no Khosrau after him, and Caesar will surely be ruined and there will be no Caesar after him, and you will spend their treasures in Allah’s Cause.” He called, “War is deceit’.

    PROPHET(SA) TRIED TO STOPS KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE AS MUCH AS HE CAN POSSIBLE:

    Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4399
    It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. Muti’ who heard from his father and said: I heard the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) say on the day of the Conquest of Mecca: No Quraishite will be killed hound hand and foot from this day until the Day of judgment.
    Muslim :: Book 7 : Hadith 3142
    Abu Huraira, (Allah be pleased with him) reported. When Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, granted Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) victory over Mecca, he stood before people and praised and extolled Allah and then said:…………it (this territory) was not violable to anyone before me and it was made violable to me for an hour of a day, and it shall not be violable to anyone after me. So neither molest the game, nor weed out thorns from it. And it is not lawful for anyone to pick up a thing dropped but one who makes public announcement of it. And it a relative of anyone is killed he is entitled to opt for one of two things. Either he should be paid blood-money or he can take life as (a just retribution).
    Muslim :: Book 9 : Hadith 3506

    PROHIBIT KILLING WITH UNJUST:

    3:21. Verily! Those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, announce to them a painful torment.
    5: 32. Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!.
    6: 151. Say (O Muhammad SAW): “Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty – We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawâhish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islâmic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand.
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 371
    Yazid al-Faqir said: This view of the Khwarij (i. e. those who commit major sins and would be eternally doomed to Hell)
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 159 ,160
    Ubaidullah b. Abu Bakr said: I heard Anas b. Malik saying: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) talked about the major sins, or he was asked about the major sins. Upon this he observed: Associating anyone with Allah, killing of a person, disobedience to parents. He (the Holy Prophet further) said: Should I not inform you about the gravest of the major sins, and (in this connection) observed: False utterance or false testimony. Shu’ba said. It was most probably” false testimony”.

  • stranger_in_the_land

    Thank you J Leland Kupferberg for capturing the hypocrisy so poignantly! So many who argue in defense of a Palestinian state are doing nothing more than regurgitating nonsensical arguments without looking at the actual history and facts for themselves.

  • markcrossley

    I am buying this. The second largest religion in the world does most certainly condemn a minority movement – yes, even tho’ there are thousands involved in this brutality, almost a billion condemn this. So, there is some upfront press in Berlin of more radicals, this does not in any way demonstrate the hundreds of millions who do not support this. US press is not reporting this resounding condemnation of these atrocities; this is too bad, because the lack of such reporting fosters hatred and bigotry on a level that is unprecedented. As a person of a blended family (Jewish and Catholic) I am glad that my other brothers and sisters of The Book condemn this action, just as people world-wide condemned the violence for decades of the Irish Protestants and Catholics. Killing is killing and all killing is wrong.

  • dolande

    As a member of the general public I’ll say that no mater how much muslin think they condemned ISIS, I haven’t (like many) see anything of that so sorry, but peace loving Muslims need to try harder, they need to be visible, they need to convince the regular person in the street that they hate ISIS as much as the next guy. That means that the need to know on the media giants door to be notice, so be it go, go ahead and do it.
    Otherwise I think they look band and when extremist christian start looking for a solution by themselves, it will get really ugly.

  • BosnianHeart

    ‘ I saw videos just a few months ago of large crowds of Muslims in the
    streets of Berlin, screaming, “Death to the Jews!” and “Juden Schwein!””

    Really? And there are even 20 bigger morons than yourself who actually believed your crap and hit ‘like’. What is the world coming to…

  • Jmannes

    p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }

    This is not about
    religion. It is only about power and control.

    Throughout history,
    this part of the world is known for its gruesome ways and brutality
    with complete disregard to life. Fighting and in-fighting is in their
    DNA. It has lasted for thousands of years and will last for thousands
    more.

    If you are a
    religious person (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) you will notice that
    ALL the prophets were sent down to the people in this region to guide
    them. This is not because they’re somehow God’s chosen people but
    rather because they were so corrupt, sadistic and brutal.

    As another example,
    the Niqab that many women wear in this region actually originated
    BEFORE Islam was even conceived. People their lived as tribes.
    Fighting between tribes was and STILL is a common practice. The
    easiest way to attack a tribe leader is to rape and to kill his wife
    and daughters. Therefore it became a tradition to cover all women in
    black so that no one would know who is whom. The Quran only
    instructed to dress modestly and to cover the hair…a practice
    ALREADY instructed by Christianity (look at how nuns dress for
    example) and Judaism.

    The bottom line is
    that people seem to confuse religion with tradition. The killing and
    disregard of life is their tradition… but the religion itself has
    pretty much the same teachings you’ll find in the bible and the
    Torah. They use the name of religion and twist it to justify their
    actions.

  • Fente

    No attacks by HAMAS = No retaliatory attacks by Israel.

    Read: “Israel responds – it’s not attacking first without provocation”

    Also – tons of provisions and supplies pour into Gaza monthly by/from/through Israel – much of which is intercepted by HAMAS and diverted away from the everyday citizens of Gaza. All anyone has to do is to read HAMAS’ charter to see they will never agree to anything but the total destruction of Israel. They hide their weapons among their own people, in schools (UN inspectors inspecting their closed schools have discovered such), fire rockets from neighborhood rooftops – knowing that any retaliation by Israel will likely cause civilian casualties – all to be used in HAMAS’ propaganda machine. HAMAS doesn’t care about “Palestinians” it only cares about it’s political agenda!!!

    Finally – lets remember who the real “squatters” are and have been ever since they began drifting into the land of Israel after the Romans defeated the Jews and carried the majority of them away into slavery. Arabs – Annie – Arabs are the “occupiers”. There has never been a “Palestinian” people nor ever a “land of Palestine”. History 101

  • John Deere

    do we trust them in light of…Lying in Islam

    By Abdullah Al Araby

    Like most religions, Islam in general, forbids lying. The Quran says, “Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies.” Surah 40:28. In the Hadith, Mohammed was also quoted as saying, “Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell.”

    However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. The book “The spirit of Islam,” by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: “Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: ‘He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good.”

  • Jim Bolla

    BULL CRAP!

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  • RationalFearOfTerror

    I can say I am peaceful yet at times I am violent – My individual behavioral variance determines me as a peaceful person?

    A Culture can say I am peaceful yet at times I am violent – A Cultural behavioral variance determines it a peaceful culture?

    Some cultural codex/’narratives’ contain genocide constructs of Other which inform a greater propensity to analogise these cultural codex/’narratives’ into reality whereas other culture codex/’narratives’ do not contain such constructs of Other or are less severe so tend to inform a less severe reality.

    Cultures are responsible for the political terror emanating from their families, communities and institutions via their codex/’narratives’ the codex/’narratives’ are changed or deleted or the cultural derived terror continues – the culture is culpable for the outcomes it informs. Apologies or denial are not enough.

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  • Jason Wheelie King

    Moderate muslims make no difference…this woman nails it !!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

  • RationalFearOfTerror

    Muslims Against ISIS – The only way Muslims can ever be against the production of radicals who inform terror is to change Architect and Builder as your cultural codex (textual and exemplar (messianic) template) consistently constantly informs terror against Other as in time and space as we see it must.

    You have a genocide construct of Other which is exactly the same as contained in Mein Kampf and you deny culpability – you are responsible for the mental schema which informs terror as clearly such terror is derived from the so called liberal-moderate end family, community and institutions.

    This would be impossible psychologically if indeed you were a religion of peace and harmony. Face it change your adherence to a codex of hate and terror against Other or you can walk with banners as much as you like terrorists will continue to be derived from your very families, communities and institutions as you not anyone else have provided them the mental schema to do so. As the Quran says everything in the Islamic text remains valid – therefore what will happen what does happen in time?

    Have I sinned? What is a Genocide Construct of Other and Why it is formed?
    http://citizensfirstasnau.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/what-is-genocide-construct-of-other-and.html

    This is not a conspiracy theory it is simply how the world as it stands works
    http://citizensfirstasnau.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/this-is-not-conspiracy-theory-it-is.html

    Own it you are all members of a terrorists organisation and always have been and will be -change your codex or change nothing the terror continues – thanks a lot.

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  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Yes, and the 38 million stateless Kurds have the right to go bat-shit all over the Turks, blowing themselves up in protest hither and thither amidst the cafes of istanbul.

    While we’re at it, maybe the great-grandchildren of the exiled Prussians from Koenigsberg (now Kaliningrad) should start strapping on bomb vests and go suicide bombing in the streets of Moscow in revenge for the ethnic cleansing of 70 years ago.

    And while we’re at it, since more then half the Jewish population of Israel are refugees driven from their Arab hometowns in Morocco, Algeria, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, etc., perhaps they should also go bat-shit suicide bombing across the Middle East in revenge for their own ethnic cleansing.

    Meanwhile, the Palestinian population within the borders of Mandate Palestine has grown by an order of magnitude of ten since 1948. And yet, even with their own Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and a Hamas government in Gaza, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in these areas INSIST on remaining in refugee camps for no other reason than that they may move a dozen or so miles over the Green Line back into Israel.

    And while all this happens, they ask Israel to accord them more sovereign powers, perchance to go even more bat-shit when it suits them, but this time with missiles and a more upgraded military.

    In the meantime, I’d say that Israel is best off keeping those mildly annoying military checkpoints in place. As for the “daily bombing” of their houses, I wonder how many Palestinians have died SINCE they decided to finally stop going bat-shit with all those missile barrages over israeli cities. Answer: hardly any.

    A little perspective goes a long way.

  • Ray F Hamdan

    You guys are completely off subject, lol
    Let’s not forget Palestinians are not all Muslim, they are Christian and Jewish also

  • Miss Taj Alsir

    OK hold on, country of isreal???? Where was this country 66 years ago?

  • Miss Taj Alsir

    So you have noticed this part but you haven’t noticed the root of the problem!! Wow.. You haven’t noticed that their country is invaded by isreal which has no right to be there and that they r getting killed and bombed every day in thier houses and fired on the Road because they don’t have they right to exist in thier own land.. Oh please, I wouldn’t blame them for what they do.. An eye for an eye! It’s so funny the way you think.. You obviously believe that the land where isreal is residing now belongs to them and that Palestine shouldn’t exist.. But no, Isreal is the enemy and they are the ones who first started the aggressive action 66 years ago, and for every action there is a reaction.. So Palestine has the right to react the way they want..

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Well, you got me there. Yes, any Jew that happens to defend the State of Israel just so happens to have been formally trained with a degree in “Hasbara.”

    Is it fair, then, for me to assume that you formally received your indoctrination from a neo-nazi organization or perhaps some leftist “progressive” NGO?

    Wait. Scratch that last point. I forgot that leftist progressive NGOs – even anti-Zionist ones – are financed by the world Jewish conspiracy. It’s sometimes so hard to keep track of all those tangled webs – and tentacles – we weave.

    Now, please excuse me while I cash my Israeli government cheque…

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Okay, so as you see it, the leader of ISIS is actually “Jewish”. And incidentally, I am not aware of saying anything against Islam per se. I merely note the multitudes of crowds in Gaza that hand out candies in the street and cheer when a fellow Muslim blows himself up, say, on a bus or cafe, in order to kill any random Jew they can find.

    Not sure if islam supports that can kind of suicidal murder, but it certainly looks like the masses of Palestine do – and enthusiastically, too, I must say.

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Well, as a German, you should know that it was a German Gentile by the name of Wilhelm Marr who coined the term “anti-Semite” specifically to apply to hatred of Jews. In fact, soon thereafter, the German League of Anti-Semites was started as a group to support…well, anti-Semitism.

    Incidentally, Israel’s current head of the Central Elections Committee is an Arab, as is one of its Supreme Court Judges. Now, that sounds like a formally “racist” country to me.

    Before you go off calling the kettle black, Werner, I would examine your own obvious anti-Semitism against Jews, based on your warped stereotypes of both the people and the nation of Israel.

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  • Werner Schumacher

    You are generalising the ethnicity of the Palestinian and the Israeli states too much. It is true that the vast majority of Israelis are jewish and Palestinians are muslim arabs which leads me to my next point of saying that Israel is a state in which discrimination was imbedded into its very foundation. Being a Jew in the country of israel is a sort of pre-requisite to key functions within government organisation and the community. There are very few (less than 6%) members of the arab community working in civil service for a substantially large arab population.

    Germans of my generation have been taught to resent the actions of our country and our grandfathers in the Second World War and the Holocaust, almost to the point of it being a social taboo with anti semitism being very frowned upon. However I cannot help but vent my opinion that the typical Israeli jew is a very racist individual. Even the word Anti-Semite is a word specifically crafted in a way for a jewish individual to victimise themselves. There are few other words to describe racism towards other ethnicities. There are no words to describe: anti-black, anti-asiatic, anti-caucasian, anti-christian, anti-islamic ect it is all branded as racist, something which the Israeli state is. Being a victim is a very convenient excuse for the Israeli state to carry out a Zionist agenda!

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  • toasterStreudal

    I’m a bit late to this conversation, but found this thread interesting…

    One – the LRA isn’t Christian. They don’t even claim to be. Many media outlets label them as such since they were founded with the 10 commandments as their rulebook and some Catholic traditions have been assimilated into their culture. Kony himself said they weren’t Christian – he was a supernatural mystic himself. The current group sees themselves solely as a liberation group for the Acholi people. There are a number of actual papers documenting the LRA and their belief systems – don’t just read NYT labels.

    As for buddhists… really? I’d like a link to a buddhist terrorist group.

    Israel is more complex and there is plenty of disagreement on both sides of that issue. They haven’t sworn the death of the Muslim people and plan on ruling the world with their Secular Jewish ideologies though.

    Just look at a list of internationally recognized terrorist groups, and at least acknowledge there *might* be a problem.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations

  • Sally Fields

    Love you guys…interesting and insightful read :-)

  • Sally Fields

    Get out. What are you doing in the Land of Judea, anyway?

  • Sally Fields

    You know what?? I watch and listen to a TON of news on a daily basis…if Muslims are speaking out against ISIS, then I have missed it. I don’t miss anything, but apparently I’ve missed the Muslims speaking out against this!!!

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  • thatprettymothafucka .

    If they comdemded isis so much then why didnt we hear about it? we certainly heard about the uproar caused by the picture of mohammed with a bomb in his turban, right now i think the muslim communities are fucking shit, if they are not going to show the world that they do not stand with isis, by actually going out of there way to let the world know they dont support them then they might as well be considered pro isis

  • Miss Taj Alsir

    And one more thing, u should have in you mind.. ISIS do not represent Islam at all. They are killing, burning and raping Muslims.. The truth is that thier leader is a Jewish.. And the only thing they are doing us ruining the image of Islam.. The truth is that in Islam we are not allowed to kill non Muslims unless iit’s a war situation.. We aren’t allowed to burn at all.. We are not even allowed to abuse others’ religions.. Instead of depating here and getting brain washed b the media, why don’t u read our holy book Quran. We only one book the has the words of God Allah and everywhere u seek it, u shall find the same copy.. Unlike the other religions which have so many different versions of thier holy books with different instructions.. Please read it, and then judge Islam.. Oh and btw, our prophet Muhammad peace be upon him has already warned us from ISIS and described them for us to be aware of them 1400 years ago as the following translation of his exact words “When you see the black flags, remain where you are and do not move your hands or your feet. Thereafter there shall appear a feeble insignificant folk. Their hearts will be like fragments of iron. They will have the state. They will fulfil neither covenant nor agreement. They will call to the truth, but they will not be people of the truth. Their names will be parental attributions, and their aliases will be derived from towns. Their hair will be free-flowing like that of women. This situation will remain until they differ among themselves. Thereafter, God will bring forth the Truth through whomever He wills”.

  • Nixon Blake

    Calling out another Hasbara ICIC propagator! Go form your own opinions, not one that your country trained you to do. You’re wasting your life and your time buddy!

  • Nixon Blake

    Calling out another Hasbara ICIC propagator! Go form your own opinions, not one that your country trained you to do. You’re wasting your life!

  • Miss Taj Alsir

    What a sick twisted reply is this!! Think again before calling it “immigration”.. Because Immigration means that you live under the wings of that country which u immigrate to, not killing and firing those poor nice people who we polite enough to let u in!!

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Wow, I see your heart truly bleeds for the fate of the few hundred thousand Arabs who experienced the “invasion” of Jewish immigrants into the narrow coastal plain of Palestine about a century ago. Or is it an “invasion” in your book when only Jews immigrate to this area, but not when Muslim immigrants do so?

    Never mind that this was one “invasion” that attracted mass Arab immigration into those bustling areas of Jewish immigrant settlement on the coastal plain, for the very reason that the Jews were raising the quality of life in these areas.

    No, I don’t think you care one whit for the Arabs of Palestine. What I do think you care about is who happens to live next door to the Jews. Unfortunately, for the 38 million stateless Kurds, they have no claim on your obsessive “sympathy” because they had the bad fortune to live amid Turks, Iraqis, and Iranians – all of whom, I suspect, get a pass in your book because they don’t happen to be Jews.

  • Joe Howell

    None of statements be condemn ISIS for killings of Jews or Christians, they only say that ISIS does not represent Islam. They do not care about Jew and Christian deaths, but the issue really is that ISIS claims to be the new Caliphate and kills fellow Muslims! Do Not buy into the condemning ISIS for the non-Islamic deaths… IT DID NOT and WILL NOT happen.

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  • BrotherRog

    Tragic consequences – but bravo to those brave Imams who are speaking out!
    “ISIS Executes Imams for Condemning Burning of Jordanian Pilot” http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/02/05/isis-executes-imams-for-condemning-burning-of-jordanian-pilot/

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  • Pitboy

    We need one solid combined voice, speaking for 49 countries and 1.5billion people,
    not a dozen different voices using various platforms.

  • Miss Taj Alsir

    Let’s see how you will feel like when your country is invaded by another country..

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  • J Leland Kupferberg

    So, in your analysis, Israel is to blame for infantilizing the Palestinian street and turning them into savages, despite the fact that for the past 20 years, they have been effectively governed on a day-to-day basis by their own police under their own governing authority.

    Nice try at playing the “occupation” card. It might have worked in the pre-Oslo days. Now, all it shows is that the PA maintains this absolutely reprehensive moral culture among the Palestinian street.

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Ni Yao, that is a morally lazy, a”pox-on-both-their-houses” argument. In Israel, Jews do not kill other Jews for having opposing viewpoints. In Gaza, you literally lose your head if you don’t tow the line on supporting terrorism against israel.

    In Israel, Jews largely denounce their extremists. In Palestinian society, extremism is the consensus norm, complete with children’s TV shows depicting Mickey Mouse urging the slaughter of Jews.

    Israel is a normal, liberal, and admirable society. “Palestine,” on the other hand, is a morally convoluted, nihilistic, place which holds up suicidal martyrdom as a “norm” to be extolled and taught to the next generation.

    Self-righteous moral equivalence can only take you so far in the face of this reality.

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Jake, the simple fact is that, in the Arab Muslim world, you would be effectively lynched and hounded out of society if you publicly denounced Islamist terrorism against Israel.

    In Jewish and Israeli society, on the other side, we give free reign to our mortal enemies, such as Chanan Zoabi, to serve in knesset on a salary, while working to destroy the Jewish State.

    Oh,if only the Muslim world could act more responsibly, more like the Jewish world, there would indeed be peace in our time.

    And that’s not bigotry. It’s just an observable fact – like the observable fact that an identifiably religious Muslim can freely enter any Jewish community without fear of being lynched by a Jewish mob, while an identifiably Jewish person would do well to steer clear from any Arab town or village.

  • Steve

    You’re talking to the wall with her. I feel sorry for those over there surrounded by all that medieval influence. If it isn’t israel though its someone else the islamists want to make submit.

  • Steve

    No you are not. Its just a little belated with some of you spokespeople who are finally coming out against isis because surprise of surprises they may just be coming for you! These iman should keep their music at home when they are trying to meet other cultures halfway. They come off as arrogant and insincere!

  • Steve

    These are just a few of the other things that should be condemned!

    Apostasy, appeasement, acid attacks, beheadings, bombings, brainwashing,
    burkas, burying alive, clitorectomy, crucifying, child brides, censoring, dhimmitude,
    executions, electrocutions, fire-bombings, fatwas, garrotings, genital mutilations,
    genocide in general, hangings, infidel branding, infanticide, incivism, isolationism,
    illiteracy in islam, jihadist fanaticism, jizya, kaffir branding, lashing, mangling, mutilation, murder, no-go zones, nazi sympathizing, oochlocracy, pedophiles, plagiarisim of western and other inventions, quran bipolar verses of contradiction mecca versus medina, raping, rockets,revenge killing, stoning, slavery, submission, starvation, sharia, taqiyya, torturing in general, terror cells, uterus purification, virgins 72, verses of violence, whipping, xenophobia (as in Islamic jihadist hatred for western culture), you tube (all those “workplace violence” terrorists screaming allahu akbar and all those wonderful other muslim moderates gone jihadist to perpetrate great deeds upon the world past, present and future), zabh (as in cutting the throat).

    Unfortunately, most muslims are okay with what happens when jihadists carry on and secretly agree with them or they are cowed into submission but still take the good of the west. If they really are being sincere they usually leave islam when they see the truth. The others had better wake up though because they won’t like it either when their fanatical associations come for them as being part of the West. I’d say poetic justice but I am not sure they allow poetry in islam, besides 50 verses of how allah is so gracious and whatever!

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  • Tarzmahal

    Americans have been interfering in the Middle East long before George Bush invaded Iraq

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  • Hesham A. Hassaballa

    Agree that my heart breaks for thr innocent of all faiths and stripes

  • NI Yao

    After reading countless debates and talking with countless people I know that support either Israel or Islam, I just want to say here that both sides have multiple points of view, however everyone only tries to see the worst of the other side. In Gaza, there are the Hamas and those who get killed by the Hamas when trying to oppose them. In Israel there are people who want to kill the Pakistanis and those who’s voices get smothered when protesting against violence. I cannot tell you a solution to fix this, this is not my fight, but my heart breaks for the innocent who get caught up in a war between fools of both sides.

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  • Cedric Longbeard

    Every single one of those responses claims that violent muslims are “not true muslims”. Dismissing them as un-islamic is no way to tackle the problem, because they clearly are Islamic. ISIS members have quoted directly from the Q’uran to justify everything they do. They are muslims just like any other muslim.

    All these responses prove is that they are unwilling to even consider the FACT that the violent verses in their Q’uran are sat there like a ticking time bomb, waiting to be acted upon by anyone who reads them. Until they finally say “Yes those extremists are devout muslims just like the rest of us, who are following EXACTLY what the Q’uran says. We need to have a good long discussion about what to do about it”. Until that happens, there will be no solution from these muslim groups. Only denial and excuses.

  • Charles Brown

    There ought to be a coalition of all progressives, atheists, agnostics, and all religious groupies, including Muslims and Christians to stand together against terrorists and radicals. Anything coming from just another Christian group comes across as a Hatfield versus McCoy, Protestant versus Catholic or Shiite versus Sunni, he-said versus she-said argument. Why not start a progressive outreach, community awareness, activist program like Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD). Though Muslims need not apologize for Islam because of the radicals who are hijacking their religion, they should have a way to express their disapproval of radical acts done in the name of Islam. So let’s start Muslims Against Despots and Demagogues Engendering Radicalism (MADDER).

  • Charles Brown

    So, some non-radical Muslims have spoken out against radicals in Islam? Let’s see some decent coverage in the media and stop being so soft spoken about it.

  • mikael

    some one who remembers the norweigan mass killer anders behring Breivik? do you Think he represent the norweigan people? open your Eyes, after 9/!! the media blame the ENTIRE muslim World to be “terrorists, do you belive Everything media says? please listen what this man has to say in this video ,i dont demand people Think like me , im just asking people to…..Think http://targetfreedomusa.com/ken-okeefe-calls-out-the-oath-keepers-911-false-flag-american-traitors-mossad/

  • Jake

    You make a statement refuting the information in this article and claim it to be “propaganda of the apologists”. In doing so you reveal that you to have difficulty accepting the majority of Muslims throughout the world as peaceful and “moderate” followers, much like moderate Christians and Jews.

    In an attempt to justify your bigotry you refered back to a completely offtopic and unrelated event where a prejudide bunch of people from the Islamic faith expressed intolerant and hateful views persecuting those who had wronged them from the Jewish faith. (sound familiar)?

    Based on your misconception, Amie presented a very appropriate and irrefutable response within context that :
    “So Muslims are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.”

    And she stated the fact that:
    “A large crowed of Muslims in Berlin does not represent thousands of Muslims worldwide.”

    Just as the hostility from the number of Zionists and radical Jews that initially triggered the Muslim to protest in Berlin” does not represent the many Jews worldwide.

    But more relevantly, people protesting due to their strong political, ethical or personal feelings regarding the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, have nothing to do with this topic or disprove that many Muslims such as myself “haven’t roundly condemned the extremism committed in Islam’s name” .

    A reasonable person would have retracted and apoligized for persucitng us all with their gross presumption and generalization, but you on the other hand proceeded to suggest that Amie is the one in need of “moral clarity” .

    Your repeated references to Judaism and to the Jewish-Muslim conflicts amongst other things suggests your a devout follower of the Jewish faith. The negative feelings you harbor towards Muslims appears to originate from your personal bias relating to religion, politics, territorial conflicts and the topics you cover throughout this website.

    As an avid user on Youtube I am confronted with anti-Muslim propaganda EVERYDAY. And more often than not the people behind those hate campaign turn out to be self confessed Zionists and radical Jews. Despite this daily encounter from these people spreading lies, slander, hatred, discrimination against Muslims, Islam and the Quran. I still refuse to condemn, generalize or stereotype Judaism or the entire Jewish community as being as prejudice, malicious and hypocritical as the rest of bigots I encounter in those comments section. How do you justify your generalization refusing to accept that many of do in fact protest, oppose and condemn the Islamist terrorists?

  • http://apocalypticaustralia.com.au/ Mad Max

    Of course they are condemning them. If they don’t the western world will watch them burn

  • ImSoCool12345

    A culture with no proper education. A culture where you can’t leave your home without being afraid of the powerful men with weapons in your city.

    If Israel wanted for Palestine to prosper and for peace, they would use their money (which we all know they have) to build schools for Palestine. And no, giving money to Hamas and asking them to build schools is not helping. Hamas are the product of no education. That means they’ll just use the money to continue what’s wrong.

    Besides, have you seen what Israelis do to African Jews?

  • Harry Binn

    @Amie. You know nothing but propaganda about your religion. 50 million Asians were killed when Islam moved into Asia. 200 Million Africans died because of Islams foray into Africa. Don’t try and bring in the Crusades as Islam destroyed most of the civilizations around the Mediterranean by the time the first Crusade was even launched. Mohammad’s religion didn’t even begin to grow until he moved to Mecca and started raiding others caravans, capturing slaves and killing most of the others. That is the base of Islam; violence. Mohammad sexual deviance’s into pedophilia and even necrophilia are in the Haddiths. That is Islam. His Supremacists attitude and unforgiving nature are found everywhere in the Koran and Haddiths. How is this guy supposed to be any kind of a Holy Man when his Paradise is nothing more than an extension of physical lust. Try and compare that to the teachings of Jesus and you don’t find any resemblance.
    Being a Christian is not a label, which unfortunately for too many people is exactly how they want to package it. And using ignorance from Indian people that don’t understand Christianity but lump it into the rest of their deities is a very poor argument against Christian teachings. The big question however on that would be “Is there any Christian trying to kill that Indian because their belief is mixed up”? The answer is no. How many Muslims are out there killing other Muslims because of belief differences? Well, this year it numbers into the 100,000’s just in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan alone.

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  • Amie

    Regarding BTK I was giving an example of how an individual is not representative of a whole group of people. Regarding those millions of Muslims you mentioned: you are saying that all those millions are terrorists. They are not! They may share some beliefs that are different than yours, but they are not terrorist. And certainly, many of those beliefs Islam/Qur’an DO NOT justify. Jesus never killed anyone because he was not in the position to do so. According to New Testament, Jesus has promised a great, holocaust-like blood shed upon his return. That is pretty darn violent if you ask me! According to New Testament, only 144,000 would be eligible to be in Jesus’ favor, all others will be murdered on mass!

  • Amie

    Actually, you are wrong. There is a terrorist organization called Lord’s Army and they are murdering and raping in the name of Christianity. Google them and you will find out about it. They have raped babies even! And, if you look at the Old Testament–which many Christians consider as part of their Holy Book, murdering and raping people outside of the “chosen” people group appears to be directly instructed and condoned. Islamic Holy Book, on the other hand, cites war as a necessary evil that is only approved in self defense. Also, Qur’an instructs humane treatment of prisoners of war. Regarding Buddhism? Oh, there is a lot of their direct teachings that encourage violence! You just have read about them. For example, in Tibbetan Budhism it is allowed to kill another human being if it is felt that Dharma is threatened. In Myanmar, Buddhist monks have called on genocide of minority Muslims because they feel their Dharma is threatened. Modern Israel was found on terrorism. We all know that Jews, believing God promised them the holy land, wanted to drive the British out so that they can establish Israel. There are many of these examples.

  • Ian Sedrix

    Hi and thanks for your message. I’ll try and respond to it. (If it ever sounds like I’m frustrated, don’t take it personally. I do like what I know about you as a person, and respect you, so don’t forget that.)

    How do I start? There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who currently hold beliefs most Westerners consider to be immoral by the standards of the 21st Century. 180-300 million, give or take. There aren’t millions of BTK supporters in the world, though, so what does BTK have to do with any of this? He’s a single clinically insane individual whose actions weren’t based on his religion. I’ve already tried to explain that individuals and individual interpretations aren’t helpful at all in terms of measuring the potential within the Islamic texts for inspiring bloodshed and misery.

    Only hours ago, a Muslim woman walked into a crowded market and blew herself up, taking 24 innocent lives along with herself. That’s already double the amount of victims ever killed by BTK. Again, this happened just hours ago. Does that not make you sick? It should. The reason we call her an “Islamic terrorist” is because she did this in the name of Islam. Regardless of your interpretation of the central Islamic texts, her act was a direct result of having read them. Why don’t people use the term “Christian terrorists”, or “Buddhist terrorists”? Because there aren’t any. No one is killing anyone else in the name of any other religion besides Islam.

    Could this Muslim woman have came across the verse “Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” (2:191)? Perhaps. Or maybe it was “Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” (9:123). There isn’t any reason it couldn’t have been “When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” (9:5). In fact, there are dozens of verses she could have found within the central Islamic texts that could have given her justification and encouraged her. This is currently only happening within Islam, and it’s happening in nearly every corner of the globe (which shows us it isn’t a response to the West).

    The day before this market massacre, in another part of the world, grenades were thrown into a bar in Somalia, killing patrons in the name of the central Islamic texts. A police officer in Tunisia was beheaded in the name of the central Islamic texts. At least 9 mourners at a funeral in Afghanistan were blown to bits in the name of the central Islamic texts. On the previous day in Nigeria, 11 innocents worshiping in their church were burned alive in the name of the central Islamic texts. On the day you wrote your last message to me, 10 doctors in Iraq were lined up and executed in the name of the central Islamic texts. Should I go on? (The central Islamic texts will certainly go on inspiring such acts.)

    It’s your business when you pray, shower, or fast, as long as you do it in private. Those things fall under what most people consider to be one’s ‘religious practice’. Unfortunately, Islam isn’t just a religion. It has economic, legal, social, political, and military components (and by this century’s standards, each one of those components is less moral than the last).

    Only about 2.6% of the Qur’an is made up of verses which show kindness or goodwill towards humanity. About 61% of the Qur’an is made up of verses talking about how bad the ‘unbelievers’ are or talking about how ‘unbelievers’ are to be subdued through violence. And you defend this? Even in the Sira (Muhammad’s biography), 75% is made up of jihad being waged on ‘unbelievers’. Islam isn’t “under attack by non-Muslims worldwide” – it’s under counter-attack!

    I’m not sure how you’d define ‘evil’, but Sharia law is definitely immoral. Its blatant disregard for social equality and gender equality, it’s requirement that the prosecution of rape provide 4 male witnesses or the rape “didn’t occur”, its barbaric punishments, the fact that a large part of Sharia is dedicated to the practice of human slavery, etc. makes it more of a window into the barbarism of 7th Century than a window into the will of Allah. Sharia law makes a mockery of the progress we’ve made since then, and it wasn’t designed to coexist with or be subordinate to 21st Century legal systems that respect human rights.

    As lovely of a person as you are (I’m sure you are!), if Muslims like you keep refusing to draw a distinct line between a new Islam that’s compatible with a civilized pluralist society, and the current Islam that’s not, if you keep refusing to reform Islam, if you keep refusing to adequately address concerns like the ones I’ve mentioned, then I’m afraid you’re a part of the problem, and you’ll be seen as such. That won’t make you a victim, it’ll make you a victimizer.

    Muhammad said “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.” Jesus said “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” Muhammad said “Allah hates those who don’t accept Islam.” Jesus said “God loves everyone.” Muhammad stoned women for adultery. Jesus said “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Muhammad permitted stealing from unbelievers. Jesus said “Thou shalt not steal.” Muhammad murdered those who insulted him. Jesus never killed anyone, instead he preached forgiveness. Muhammad ordered the murder of women. Jesus never harmed a woman. Muhammad encouraged his men to rape enslaved women. Jesus never encouraged rape, nor did he ever enslave women. Muhammad had others give their lives for him. Jesus gave his life for others.

    As a fellow human being, Amie, I love you. As things stand, though, right now you’re helping the bad guys.

  • Amie

    Wa-alaikmussalam :)
    Qur’an is a 7th century text and requires some studying and interpretation. Also, Allah SWT in the Qur’an says that there are verses whose meanings become clear over time and some verses that are as clear as day. Generally, scholars tend to agree on many things in terms of religion of Islam and its practice, Islamic Law, etc. However, in many areas around the world the scholars are ignored. A lot of times, you will find dictatorships like the Saudi dynasty deciding who will be the religious leaders in their country. Accordingly, they use Shari’a Law and some of their own ideas/interpretations to subjugate the masses. Qur’an instructs Muslims to use reason, to follow commandments as noted in the Qur’an and to study the Holy Book. Qur’an sets many rules, but also various guidelines to help people make proper judgements about things not specifically mentioned in the Qur’an. That is why we need scholars of religion to help guide us. They study not only the Qur’an, but also other islamic texts to determine the best course of action. For example, Qur’an only says that men and women must be clean when praying and specifies how to perform ablution (ritual cleansing). However, there is no say about menstrual cycle and whether it is just enough to take ablution or whether does one must take a complete bath/shower (ghusl). Since the general guideline for Muslims is to pray in a state of physical and mental purity, after various studies of hadiths the scholars concluded that it is best for women to take full bath, just to be sure one is clean.
    Muslims have functioned well under the leadership of various notable scholars and religious leaders for centuries. In terms of how people practice faith, Muslims have no problem with that. Also, the current political/social issues facing Muslims and non-Muslims is not related to the influence of scholars, rather the issues are caused by: lack of people’s understanding of Islam, general feeling that Islam is under attack by non-Muslims world wide (hence extremism among some), sensitivity to the plight of Palestinian Muslims, dictatorships supported by the non-Muslims (Saudi dynasty, Sadaam Hussein, etc.), economic issues, educational barriers, etc.
    I am just a Muslim woman. I hate the prefixes “islamists” or such in reference to Islam or to one being a Muslim. Why? Because many of those “Muslim” terrorists have been proven to not exactly be following Islam to the T. For example, the 9/11 attacker Atta was noted to have used prostitutes, took Qur’an to a bar (what true Muslim does such?!), etc. Just as much as I would not call someone a Jewish terrorist, I do not think it is appropriate to call one a Muslim/Islamic terrorist. Because, religion is not terror. People individually cause terror. We must also remember that even religious people commit bad things. For example, the serial killer called BTK (bind, torture,kill) killer used to be a church going, family man. He was well respected in his community, participated in church, etc. Yet, for over a decade he murdered women. Just because he was a church goer does not mean he was a good person. The same applies for some of those who act as Muslims. Just because one prays 5 times a day, fasts Ramadan, gives charity, etc., does not mean he is all good person. Only God will decide what counts at the end. People can call themselves whatever they want.
    Regarding separating themselves from violent kind, all Muslims must separate themselves from unjust acts of violence (e.g. unprovoked war activities), not from practice of their faith. Just because one is a moderate in terms of political views, does not mean that person must stop observing religious duties. Sometimes it may happen that a violent person tends to observe more religious duties than the one who is not violent. Again, example of the BTK killer: how many Christians are not very church going, yet do not end up killers? Does that mean all who go to church are killers? No, of course. The same applies to Muslims.
    Muslims stay away from calling someone unbeliever if the person believes himself to be a believer. The reason for this is that God in the Qur’an commands that individual Muslims must not call another person unbeliever if he declares himself a Muslim. Therefore, you do not see a lot of “moderates” calling out violent guys unbelievers. Rather, Muslim people have condemned acts of unjust violence.
    Sharia Law is not evil, and for Muslim people (even “moderates”) it makes sense. Because through Sharia we legally marry, circumcise our children, give rights to parents , spouses, neighbors, etc. Sharia is from God, and is not much different from the Mosaic Law from the Torah. The fact that some have abused it and “added” articles to it to support their oppressive regimes (e.g. stoning) does not mean that actual Sharia supports stoning.

  • Ian Sedrix

    The above video makes it clear that the reason many Muslims are opposed to ISIS is because ISIS is opposed to many Muslims. That’s not so difficult to understand. Why would clerics who feel their very lives are threatened by ISIS not condemn them? And what about all the leading clerics who haven’t condemned ISIS? This video above shows they’re more concerned with Muslim solidarity than anything else. Shame on them.

    No one is dictating to Muslims what they believe. People are fed up with the fact that Islam is still such a source of outdated 7th Century ideas that it consistently creates a much too sizable minority of people whose values are clearly incompatible with the 21st Century.

    My comments, for example, are fueled by love and a desire for inclusiveness, against the hatred and divisiveness that stems from today’s Islam. Does it offend you that I take such a stand? In the larger picture, your or my interpretation of Islam doesn’t matter at all. What matters are the results of all of Islam’s interpretations in total, and those results are catastrophic.

    The Westboro Church? They can barely keep their 40 members, and everyone else condemns their views. The Lord’s Resistance Army? They’re a small group of about 200 occultist mercenaries, mostly children, funded by an Islamic regime. Even at their height, the LRA still only numbered in the thousands, and their core of well-trained fighters consisted of only a few hundred (although they did kill many people).

    Compare that with the fact that there exists today an estimated 180-300 million Muslims who are either A) terrorists or B) Islamists who hold beliefs unacceptable by all standards of modern civilization, and we begin to realize that none of your analogies hold up to scrutiny.

    If you respond, please answer these questions honestly:
    1) Do you believe people who criticize Islam should be prosecuted?
    2) Do you want Sharia law in the West?
    3) Do you think suicide bombings against Western soldiers or citizens are justified in the name of Islam?

  • emilysam

    That is a very interesting insight, and I think it is true. I also think that the reason we may compliment others is because we see something we admire, and it is not jealousy or envy ( although for some it is) a characteristic , quality, talent, ability that we do not have, which we also respect.
    Professions aside, by nature and because my life experiences have given me the ability to see how others thick and why…sometimes I am wrong , more often right. And I am not being arrogant truly…
    Will let you know if we come up with a plan::))

  • Ian Sedrix

    Compliments often remind of the fact that the people giving them out are usually only able to recognize what they see in the other because they have it within themselves… makes it a lot easier to accept compliments sometimes.

    Let me know if you guys come up with a plan.

  • Ian Sedrix

    As-salām ‘alaykum and thank you for your kindness, and all your words. They cause me to think of many things.

    If, as you say, the Qur’an in Arabic is clear, then why do Arab Muslims need Sharia scholars (who, as you also say, are only human beings and not ‘holy’) telling them what Islam
    forbids and what Islam allows? It seems to me that if the Qur’an is clear, we shouldn’t need
    these men to write thousands and thousands of pages of what we now know to be immoral interpretations.

    Why do Muslims anywhere allow these writers and scholars to pretend they know more than what Muhammad and His companions knew? These men have taken a power that was not theirs to take. A Reformation of Islam must remove their power, no matter how hard they fight to keep it.

    I’m so glad you consider yourself to be a moderate Muslim and not an Islamist. We call
    those who actually commit acts of terror “Islamic terrorists”, while
    “Islamists” are simply those who justify things like
    the suicide bombings of innocents, death to apostates, prosecution for
    those who criticize Islam, honor violence towards women, and Sharia law,
    etc. (Unfortunately, there are currently hundreds of millions of
    “Islamists” in the world who hold such immoral values.)

    Nevertheless, the world’s concern isn’t with single interpretations, but with the
    combination of all possible interpretations. In other
    words, we don’t believe terrorists or Islamists are the problem any
    more than we believe people such as yourself are the problem. The
    problem is that Islam creates both
    (and if I understand what you’re saying, this may be a result of Islam’s reliance today on imperfect and immoral scholars
    who think they know more than Muhammad). In any case, the consistent minority of
    Islamists and terrorists is always too sizable.

    That’s why many in the world consider that as long as Muslims like you and Muslim terrorists are both calling yourselves “Muslims”, you exist together like a set of conjoined twins. The blood on the hands of terrorists, who mostly kill other Muslims, will continue to stain you as well, until these two conjoined twins are separated (which, as we know, is often a necessity when two such twins are joined).

    So moderate Muslims like yourself who do not hold the immoral values of Islamists must begin to separate yourselves, or be separated, from those who do. Muslims who choose to defend the right of terrorists and Islamists to
    call themselves “Muslim” are Islamists in everything but name. Islam therefore must be peacefully reformed in order that it only reflect the scope of acceptable interpretations made by moderate Muslims who embrace equality like yourself.

    I’m on your side against the terrorists and Islamists. Those Muslims who truly believe in kindness (as I do) and truly want all Muslims of the world to co-exist with other Muslims and non-Muslims (as I do) must also choose which side they’re on, with the understanding that not choosing between the
    two sides is essentially the same as aligning with the terrorists and Islamists.

    So, on one side we have terrorists and Islamists who value inequality, Sharia law, and theocracy, and on the other we have both Muslims and non-Muslims who value equality, freedom of speech, and liberal democracy (and, of course, kindness). Go team!

  • Amie

    I will give you credit in terms of hadith collections (sayings attributed to Prophet Muhammad pbuh, his family and friends) (which are not Divine Revelation in Islam) as many hadiths contradict themselves and make no sense. However, you do not understand Qur’an (Islamic Holy Book) and most likely make your judgement of it based on the English translation of the interpretation and weak commentaries (both from non-Muslims and Muslims). Qur’an is way more kind than Bible and hadiths combined! The issue comes into play with the Arab Muslims because for many of them (e.g. Saudi Arabia) hadiths play into the government laws and regulations which limit rights of minorities, different Muslim sects and even Muslim women in general. A lot of radicals’ ideas are not based on the Qur’an as much as they are on the hadiths. For example, in the true Islamic Law as derived from the Qur’an there is no stoning punishment for adultery, yet supposedly hadiths have it. Guess which one is used as a “law” in countries like Saudi Arabia? You guessed: the hadiths. Majority of the Muslim world cannot do much about individual countries besides supporting the rights organizations (which do exist in Muslim nations) and put international pressure on the governments and religious leadership.Martyrdom and jihad are the core beliefs of Islam in general. Both, as defined by Qur’an, are tied to justice, self-improvement and self-defense NOT unprovoked violence and playing victim. You may be fighting your own jihad if you are striving to be a good, law-abiding citizen. Others may be doing their jihad by trying to make something of themselves by getting education and good job. Others yet are in jihad by trying to complete all religious obligations such as fasting, prayers and charity. Some may be in jihad if they are fighting for their survival. The media wants and the radicals want you to believe that jihad only means war, but that is not true. The simple meaning of jihad is: struggle, and has various dimensions to it.

  • emilysam

    I completely agree. As for talking about professions it is difficult, it is never a good idea to use any private information, emails and such. I was asking my husband if he knew of another way- he is far more
    tech”savvy then I am….I just find your posts/comments very insightful, which I rarely come across on these discussion boards. Perhaps we will figure out away via Disqus.

  • Ian Sedrix

    Neither of us are “brainwashed”, we just need to employ some of our critical thinking skills here.

    If given the choice, would a large village of starving people choose 40 apples or 200,000 oranges? Would both choices not result in their receiving food? Yes, but clearly, size and scope sometimes matters. Why do I say this? Because Muslim extremists murder more innocents every day than the KKK has in over 50 years. Not a small difference.

    Let’s talk about the Central African Republic. There’s a Christian majority there. In recent years, militant Muslim extremists (called the ‘Seleka’) staged a military coup there, putting in their own president (the first Muslim president in the country’s history), and promptly began an Islamic terror campaign, killing innocent men, women, and children. Events you just described as “Christians killing Muslims” are in fact the counterattacks against these Islamic extremists and those perceived to be collaborating with them.

    Of course, the death of one innocent is one too many, but when a teacher removes a bullying child from a playground, she’s not becoming the ‘bully’.

    Now about the Irish Conflict. It wasn’t a religious conflict. How do we know this? Because not only were Catholics and Protestants on both sides of the conflict, but If doctrine had really been at issue, we’d be seeing the same conflict playing out all over the world (as we see with Islamic extremism).

    Rick, if you respond to me again, I ask you stick to these topics. I was respectful enough to address each of your points, so don’t simply ignore mine and begin listing other grievances in what usually seems like a never-ending game of terrorist-narrative whack-a-mole. If you can think about where it is that you and I might be able to find some common ground, tell me where.

  • Ian Sedrix

    Exactly. We’re left wondering how much sleep he’s lost over the innocence of the defendants he’s prosecuted.

    As long as one intends on having meaningful conversations that go somewhere, people like Mr. W probably aren’t worth the effort it takes to tap a keyboard.

    Somewhere in myself, though, I always seem to hold out for the possibility that there’s some untapped reservoir of humanity inside people like that. Despite their behavior, I’d be willing to sit back down with them again in an instant if I really saw a turnaround. That’s not to say I don’t have my limits, but until those lines are crossed, it just feels right to keep that option open on a case-by-case basis.

    Humans are social animals. Humans talk. It’s a shame, though, that out of all the reasons humans enter into discussions, getting to the truth of a matter appears so rarely to be one of them.

    As far as what my profession is… Or yours… I wouldn’t hesitate talking about that if you knew of a way that wasn’t so out in the open.

  • ricksnazzle

    have you heard of the Christian organization, ku klux klan? you’re going to tell me they’ve never killed anyone? seriously?

    look up whats been happening in the Central African republic the last couple of years with Christians killing Muslims.

    how about Northern Ireland? how could you forget about all that catholic-Protestant war that has been going on for years? you want more examples or do you want to continue to be brainwashed?

  • emilysam

    I do not know what you your profession is, but you have an excellent understanding of psychology, how an individual really feels and thinks, not not his outer persona. I know because emotions are my “specialty”.

    He ( and we both know who “he” is, has already arrived at a verdict, and is not try interested in the evidence, but pretends he is, by playing mind games.
    A complete waste of time , might as well knock your head against a brick wall.

  • Ian Sedrix

    Unfortunately, yes, I have run into the type of people you were asking me about (I saw your question before it was gone). Seemingly intelligent people using arrogance as a shield, as if to protect any exposure of weakness they might have; or maybe using it like scar tissue, covering up old wounds received for having exposed perceived weaknesses in the past. In any case, it’s born out of weakness, and it’s driven by fear. Even a hamster would get dizzy with the circular reasoning of such an arrogant scapegoating narrative.

    Similarly, I hate to think why posts as hostile as the ones Hunter Watson wrote are authorized, while other notable posts are not. Speaking of which, good call on the lawyerly insight. Unwittingly, this Hunter Watson character seems to make a better case for why lawyers have such a bad rap than for why antisemitism exists.

  • Ian Sedrix

    The only thing I assume about Muslims, Amie, is that they have the potential for being great people – as great as anyone else, in every way. A lot of Muslims are great, I know. That’s not the point. I have nothing against Arab Muslims. People are people.

    The only problem I have is with the consistent potential of the central Islamic texts create a sizable minority who hold ideas which are incompatible with modern civilization. The polls are all out there.

    Politics haven’t helped, for sure (and we probably agree on many things), but the violence and subsequent victimhood mentality we see Islamic fundamentalists demonstrate comes first and foremost from their holy books.

    It that just a theory? No. It’s right there in their doctrine as plain as day for every would-be Islamic radical to see, and since Muslims are by far the biggest victims of it, it’s not doing anyone any good pretending it stems from anywhere else. I say all of this with love, not hate.

    I think we need to support the efforts of reasonable Muslim moderates (like Maajid Nawaz, since the dangerous sketchy moderates like Reza Aslan can’t even bring themselves to condemn Bin Laden).

    (If you can, look at my response to Ricksnazzle – Islamic radicals are killing Hindus in India, Animists in South Sudan, Buddhists in Bangladesh, etc. It really has nothing to do with the West.)

  • emilysam

    After a moments thought, make that a split second, I could not agree with you more. Your assessment regarding her comments are right on target. Nice job!!

  • Ian Sedrix

    Please see my answer to Ricksnazzle.

  • Ian Sedrix

    Have I read the Bible? Yea, I’ve read the Bible and the Koran. You don’t have to like the Bible to agree with what I’m saying.

    Not only did Christianity and Judaism have Reformations (while Islam did not), but the doctrines also have major differences. Do yourself a favor and read a side-by-side comparison of Islam and Christianity. Educate yourself.

    Don’t you read headlines from time to time? In the Philippines yesterday, for example, 3 innocents were slaughtered by Islamist fundamentalists, in the name of Islam. Meanwhile in Thailand, they gunned down an innocent couple selling vegetables. The day before, they beheaded at least 4 innocent women in Iraq, in separate incidents, simply for “leaving Islam”. The day before that, they butchered 50 villagers in the Congo with axes and machetes, and the day before that, they slit the throats of 45 villagers in Nigeria after tying them up in row.

    All of this blood and misery, every single day, in nearly every corner of the globe, in the name of Islam. Would anyone be the least surprised if Islamic fundamentalists are killing in the name of Islam right now as I speak? Of course not.

    Answer me this: how many innocents are being killed in the name of any other religion? 0. Did you read that? The answer is zero. Read poll results regarding Muslim views on martyrdom, Jihad, honor violence, domestic violence, apostasy, blasphemy, and justification for the death of innocents.

    (You’re an atheist? Read – or listen – to people like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Sam Harris, Douglas Murray, or Pat Condell on this specific issue.)

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Of course, you’re missing my entire point. Are you more interested in an alleviation of Palestinian suffering or in condemning the State of Israel?

    If the Israelis were as bad as you say, it would seem that there is little the Gazans could do to alleviate their suffering. But fortunately, we have a test case for comparison: The West Bank Palestinians. Since the Israelis are far more invested in West Bank territory than in Gaza, one would expect the “occupation” to cause more repression and suffering there than in Gaza. Yet that’s not the case.

    Why? Because there is generally cooperation and quiet between the PA and Israel, and Hamas is not given a foothold to give the land over to terrorist provocations. In some areas, the Palestinians in the West Bank flourish far more than in Gaza.

    But do you care? Of course not. In my view, you treasure Palestinian suffering only for the opportunities it gives you to condemn Israel. If the people living in Gaza were persecuted Kurds, you’d suddenly forget about “Palestine” and concentrate on Kurdish liberation rights.

    Yes, I understand your kind completely.

  • Harry Binn

    @disqus_l49GibMh8X:disqus. The difference is that we don’t kill people for witchcraft in Western society any longer do we? And the claim that the West is responsible for the violence in the Middle East is nonsense. They have been killing each other in the Middle East for 1,000’s of years before the West even became a power. I am also well aware that other minorities are being persecuted in Islamic countries and that other Muslims are suffering from that persecution. What you don’t say is that is Muslims that are doing the persecutions. Did you know that the idea of witchcraft in Europe was mostly laughed at as superstition in 600 AD? It was re-introduced into Spain by the invasion by Muslims. Today, between 80 to 90 percent of all terrorist acts of violence are committed by Muslims. The more a Muslim reads his Koran and Haddiths the more likely they are to either apostatize by rejecting Islam or begin to look for ways to establish Sharia law through violence and deceit. This the main apparently why children of Muslims in Western societies are rejecting their parents versions of Islam and searching out groups like ISIS and Al Queda.

  • Amie

    The persecutions are happening not just to Christians but other minorities AND Muslims as well. The majority of the Middle East countries are in the midst of the civil wars instigated by the Western powers with their tactics of divide and conquer. There are many people around the world believing in the power of witchcraft, including the West. In the West you call them Druids and Wiccans. I actually worked with someone who was proud priestess of witchcraft (and I live in the U.S.). So, just because you believe it is superstition, there are millions who believe it is real, and not just Muslims. Christians in Europe believe in witchcraft too. For example, some of the famous witches are from eastern Serbia (Europe) practicing Vlah magic, believed to be one of the most powerful kind in the world in the occult circles (#1 being Vodoo, #2 being Arabic magic, #3 Vlah magic). Anyway, there are non-Muslim nations in which cultures witchcraft is real and something their societies are against: Angola (75% Christian), DR Congo (95% Christian), and Ethiopia (63% Christian, 3% non-monotheistic and about 33% Muslim). In Angola, orphan children are viewed as witches. Common horrible practices are to beat, starve, chain and blind those children. In DR Congo, the estimates show over 20,000 children are homeless because they were expelled from their homes due to the accusations of witchcraft. In Ethiopia, it is believed that individuals born with abnormalities are evil. They are murdered. Children are taken to jungles or drowned. I am not saying that I approve of those practices, but my point is that belief in witchcraft and persecution of the witches is not common to Muslims or Islamic countries. In fact, Qur’an does not command punishment in this world for witchcraft but God promises Hell for those who practice it in the Afterlife. Islam is not the religion of the sword. For example, when Islam came with Ottomans to the Balkans, majority of Bosnian Christians accepted Islam without the sword. You do not know Islam and how dare you attack my religion or my God! In fact, Christianity has spread with sword in Americas, Europe (numerous crusades against heretics, witches, Jews, Muslims), etc. You got nothing to say for Islam. Many people have accepted Islam without the sword. The same cannot be said for Christianity until the 20th century or so when the churches decided to start sending missionaries. And, many of the new converts to Christianity remain to practice non-Christian beliefs. For example, I have met many Asians from India who believe cows are “gods” yet they supposedly believe in Jesus. They would refuse to eat beef because they still believe “cow is god.” Go figure.

  • Amie

    Palestinians are under occupation, and have been since 1948. Who is Israel to dictate who Palestinians vote for? Why is it that Muslims must negotiate with blood thirsty enemies, but the enemies cherry pick who they want to negotiate with? You are making it sound as if Israel did someone a favor by “unilaterally” withdrawing its troops in 2005. They certainly did not do it for peace or anything similar. The living conditions of people in Gaza are horrible, whether they live in peace with Israelis next to them or not. Israel controls their water supplies, access to the sea, movement, etc. The destruction of infrastructure that Israel has caused to Palestinians is terrible. Many of those people in Gaza have loved ones in Israeli concentration camps called “jails” on bogus “terrorist” charges. So, why would those people like Israelis then? A lot of the prisoners are children. Are children terrorists? Israel is a racist entity as seen by the treatment of people of different ethnic and racial backgrounds (e.g. African Jews, Muslim Palestinians, Christian Palestinians, etc). I got nothing nice to say about Israel.

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Yahya, no reasonable person is arguing that the majority of Sunni Muslims support ISIS. Clearly, they do not. But on the other hand, what is worrisome is that ISIS’ ability to recruit among Muslims worldwide is due to some disturbing values that are indeed normalized throughout the Arab Muslim world.

    Specifically, the celebration and praise for terrorists who blow themselves up as “martyrs”, targeting any and all Jews they might find. When four rabbis were mercilessly slaughtered in a synagogue with meat cleavers, mass crowds in Gaza were out celebrating, throwing candies and waving meat cleavers. What kind of culture breeds that type of normative mass behavior?

    When exactly was the last time you ever saw mass crowds of Jews out on the streets celebrating the deaths of Muslim women and children? Honestly, Yahya, I think the key to peace is for the Palestinian street to start emulating the values of the Jewish street. Only then will we have peace in our time.

  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Amie, looks like you need a little moral clarity, and perhaps a dose of legal reasoning. After Israel unilaterally withdrew its troops in 2005, the Palestinians in Gaza had an excellent opportunity to govern their lives productively, and could have easily reached out to Israel to accommodate them.

    Instead, they voted in an entity committed to the destruction of the Jewish State. Now, I see you’re making two arguments: that they’re resisting “occupation” and that they are still sour grapes over being “kicked out” 70 years ago.

    So which is it? Do they want Israel out of their hair in Gaza? Or do they want the opportunity to destroy Israel and to reverse the results of 1948? If the latter, then international law empowers Israel with the moral and legal right to preempt any hostile attempt to destroy or destabilize the Jewish State.

    And if that’s the case, then Hamas has some agency over how this “occupation” plays out. If they stop, disarm, and amend their intent to destroy Israel, then they can challenge Israel at that point to ease off. And isn’t that want you want in the end? If so, you should be counseling your Hamas friends to ease off, so as to improve their lives.

    Or are you – as I suspect – more interested in seeing Gazans played by Hamas as pawns in order to box in the Jewish State you so clearly despise? In which case, you don’t really care a fig for the day-to-day lives of Gazans.

  • ricksnazzle

    it’s not the book that condemns certain groups of people to a fiery “hell” based on a belief you have that may or may not even be true?

  • Jeff Morrison

    Stil no god, Harry and your words are just words. I question your facts listed here but your motivation is clear and proof of everything that I believe and stated. Good luck to you sir but then you won’t really need it you have “god” on your side.

  • Harry Binn

    @jeff_morrison:disqus This will be my last post on this one. You ever hear of Phrenology? It was the science of reading ones health by the shape of the skull. They had full clinics involved in it at one time. It was garbage science at its best. You write about the accomplishments of science but you ignore the dangers of science. Elon Musk from the Space-X program is warning that “AI” is on the way to wiping out all of humanity. Not sure if you are aware of this or not, but since the 1980’s over 1.25 billion fetus’ have been aborted. Its over a million abortions a month. Science has no heart or compassion. The other major question is how do you define any moral ethics? They shift from generation to generation and from culture to culture. At some point cannibalism may be in vogue. Some character in Germany actually served an umbilical cord cooked up as some form of appetizer for his guests.

    Jeff. You cannot ignore the abuses done in the name of science while also ignoring the great contributions done by religious people. It was Christians that started free schools and hospitals back in 300 to 600 AD. It was Jesus that taught that all life, Jew or Gentile, free or slave, child or adult, male of female that had intrinsic value. Science makes no distinction on intrinsic value and it will destroy anything that it deems unnecessary.

    All the best to you dude. Keep reading. Christians may not be the best representation of God, but then, God cannot be defined by the actions and abuses of individuals either.

  • Jeff Morrison

    Correct Harry, religion is a map to explain the wonder of consciousness from 2000 years in the past. As I stated in my initial post here, science has a much broader and more expanded view of the universe, let alone a small part of the world in the Middle East than the major religions. The sun revolves around the earth and the earth was flat remember? Were they wrong or ignorant? Either way why would you believe it? And unlike religion science seems to unite people. The recent landing of the probe on the comet is a great example of what people can do in the name of science and explaining the universe. This was done by a multi national team. It will take the world some generations to wake up to this fact but the tide is turning against the ignorance and regressive nature of religion. Sorry I’ve spent too much of my life in a religious pursuit before seeing the writing on the wall. I’m spending zero time to find your god whichever one it might be. The answers do not lie in the scriptures of any kind. They have not worked in the past and the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Religion is done and the people who practice it are deluded and unhealthy.

  • Harry Binn

    @Jeff. The problem you have with your argument is that if no God exists then religion is a man made philosophy only. If it is a man made philosophy then the root problem is not the philosophy but the the people creating it. Religion is no more than a tool then. This makes the worlds atrocities a problem created by people. Why? I’ll state it again; because without a God then people have created the religion and religion is nothing more than a tool used by them.

    Peter Hitchens, the brother of the famous atheist Christopher Hitchens, was an atheist until he went to live and work in an atheistic country. His book “Rage Against God” is a very interesting read.

    Man has committed atrocities since the beginning of time. If a supreme being exists outside of our time and space than the ultimate objective would have very little to do with the limited and fleeting time we exists here. It would be to prepare us for living in dimension they have and the way we treat each other here as well as the motivations of our heart would be the litmus tests of our success; and that would probably go for benevolent aliens or gods.

  • Jeff Morrison

    Sorry Harry, never heard of either references you cite here and I’m not interested. There is no god period. Look what happened in Jerusalem today. Where was the god(s) in this attack? Nowhere because there isn’t one of any kind. Live in ignorance and delusion. I know stupid when I see it and religion is mass stupidity and a great part of the what ails the human race.

  • Harry Binn

    Jeff. Go and watch God’s not dead. Science does not have all the answers. Anthropology, which evolution seems to be most reliant on, has a huge history of scams and wild eyed imagination that seems to define it. The scientist Arthur C. Custance has some papers where he has interesting look at the issues with Anthropology. It’s the only “science” that starts with a premise and then ignores anything that counters the premise.

  • Harry Binn

    Amie. I have read Al-Jazeera and a bunch of other newspapers from all of Malaysia and the Middle East. You know what I find? These countries are still killing people on the charge of witchcraft as well as defamation. Witchcraft for crying out loud. Nobody in the West even believes in witchcraft anymore. Superstition and ignorance are rampant in Islamic countries. Saudi Arabia has something like a 40% illiteracy rate. Did you know that over 300 million Christians are currently under heavy persecution? You want to guess which group are doing most of the persecution? Muslims, just in case you didn’t get it. And the only reason that the number is not higher than 300 million is that most Christians in those lands have either been killed or run out of the area just like most of Jews. Islam is the religion of the sword, it will eventually destroy everything. That is what their god and prophet seemed to want.

  • Amie

    You must be one of those who is paid to make comments like that. Any sane person will not fall for your unsupported claims about ISIS following Qur’an. Facts are that ISIS is West-funded group designed to assist with the war against Islam, NOT war against terror.

  • Amie

    Are you serious? Your media may not show you condemnation of murder of Syrians, but Muslim people have spoken out against it a lot. Just have to open you mind and google some other media outlets, like Al-Jazeera, to find out for yourself.

  • Amie

    You look at the Middle East and assume the Middle Eastern Muslims represent ALL Muslims in the world. The facts are that Arabs make up only 15% of Muslim world population. Also, you cannot blame the poor Arabs either. For decades they have been rather peaceful with the West in spite of occasional bombing incursions in Iraq and such, until West felt the need to attack, invade and subjugate Arabic peoples to “promote democracy” aka steal their oil. More than 75% of Muslims world wide, at least, are not actively engaging in violence with others in the name of Islam. And that should say something to you and people like you: that Islam and its texts are NOT to blame.

  • Amie

    And you are an expert in Islam now and can give us proofs of “purity” of ISIS’ “Islam?” Lol.

  • Amie

    So Muslims are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. A large crowed of Muslims in Berlin does not represent thousands of Muslims worldwide. Thousands of rockets in Israel (if unprovoked, I condemned them!) are NOTHING compared to the arsenal the terrorist-founded state of Israel has. I would love you living under occupation and oppression like Palestinians do for decades and then come back here and tell me if you would be firing any rockets, that actually hardly ever do significant damage. How would you like it if: a person, claiming God promised them your house, land, everything–to come to kick you out? To be treated like second class citizen 24/7 for decades? Educate yourself what it is like to live under Israeli occupation, then start talking.

  • Kay Mann

    we don’t like to call it that. The Bible, The Holy Bible, The Good Book, and The Word of God, are the acceptable and preferred terms. Have a blessed day :-)

  • Kay Mann

    The God of Judaism and Christianity is not the god of islam, which seems to revel in the blood of innocent men, women, and children. Let me be clear on this statement which could be on a T-shirt: “While it is true that most muslims are not terrorists, it is just as true that most terrorists are muslims.”

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  • Lee Havenaar

    Nothing in the religious world is pure…….

  • Lee Havenaar

    Teaminfidel…..good muslims?…..good muslims stand against ISIS…..all terrorists, Muslim, Christian, Jewish (yes they do exist) et al should be condemned.

  • Lee Havenaar

    The bible is the same…thumbs up ricksnazzle!

  • Lee Havenaar

    Al-qaeda was around long before G.W. invaded Irag

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  • Mss Hafsat Omale

    Hogwash… You lack knowledge of Islam. Islam stand the religion of peace forever. I implore you to seek for knowledge my brethren.

  • CAPTKeith

    The religion of peace

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  • Jeff Morrison

    Religion is still poison no matter what faith it is. There is no proof of a god and the scriptures of 1400 years ago are not relevant in 2014. Science has explained the human experience in ways that religion could only hope to touch on. If humanity survives I’m sure that religion will be look upon as and dark and ignorant ideology that worked against unifying the human race and kept us apart.

  • Alstrum Dabat

    If that was true then why are the overwhelming majority of Muslims opposed to ISIS? Why has there been dozens of Fatwas from leading clerics condemning ISIS? What gives you the right to dictate to Muslims what they believe despite you not being qualified to do so? Your comments are hate fueled drool, and shows that you do not know what you are talking about. To claim that the Muslim Brotherhood are like ISIS, or that Jizya is a “convert tax” is laughable. The Islam of ISIS is as Islamic as the Christianity of the Westboro Baptist Church, although no idiot would claim that the near to 2Billion Christians on this Earth support the Westboro Baptist Church or the genocidal Lords Resistance Army.

  • Sammy

    taqyya!!! Willful deceitfulness is a bitch to non-muslims from Muslims!! Their word means nothing!!!

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  • AndyS

    Dear Sir, have you ever think and try to find out the root cause of radicalization and being so violent. Why this young people turn into violence and don’t respect human life why they become TERRORIS. Because you always try to defend instead of condemn.

  • Dan Larrivee

    I’ve read the Qur’an and ISIS is pure Islam, some lies (taqyya) is going on here, they try to convince us to their evil lies.

  • ricksnazzle

    have you read the fucking bible?

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  • J Leland Kupferberg

    Sorry, but I’m not buying. I saw videos just a few months ago of large crowds of Muslims in the streets of Berlin, screaming, “Death to the Jews!” and “Juden Schwein!”

    Mass Muslim protests erupted all over the world because the Jewish State had the audacity to fight back against thousands of rocket salvos. And yet, how many more Muslims has ISIS killed in the same period, and all in the name of Islam?

    So, unless anyone knows of any mass Muslim street protests against ISIS, I’m just not buying the propaganda of the apologists. The fact is, the Muslim street could care less. They seem far more concerned about the Jewish people than about the very real and sinister threat of ISIS.

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  • InsideTrack

    It’s shameful to hear Muslims condemning ISIS on the grounds that
    “Muslims should unite” as opposed to addressing and rejecting those
    parts of the central Islamic texts which openly incite violence and
    intolerance, justifying in no uncertain terms the subjugation or murder
    of non-Muslims all across the world. Where are the denunciations of political Islam, extra-judicial Islam, or the inequality of social Islam?

    The central Islamic texts
    inspire both peaceful actions as well as violent. They inspire not one,
    nor the other, but both. Therein lies the problem. Unfortunately, the increasingly unacceptable
    nature of the intolerant attitudes they inspire increasingly cancels out
    the otherwise acceptable nature of the tolerant attitudes they also inspire. In the present as in the past, Islam’s violent minority is simply too sizable, and there’s nothing hateful or
    illogical about acknowledging that (as the writer below me wrongly suggests).

    A survey conducted in July
    2014 by ICM Research estimates that well over 3.5 million adult citizens
    in the UK are supporters of ISIS. Results in other European countries
    was even more alarming. Polls in recent years found that 1 in 4 young UK
    Muslims find Islamic suicide attacks “justified” in general. These and
    similar Islamist views are strictly incompatible with Western society.
    For the West to survive, those who hold them must no longer be welcome
    within it.

  • Yahya Altagir

    Muslims form one in five of the worlds population. At the current rate of people accepting Islam, this will soon mean one quarter of the worlds population will be Muslim, Logic indicates that if Muslims act as you suggest in your hate mail, you would probably be dead by now. ISIS and other similar groups probably form about 0.01% of the worlds population! So as long as you do not decide to travel in areas where they are busy killing mainly other Muslims, you have a much better chance of being run over by a drunk driver (not a Muslim if he follows the Quran!) The media and people like yourself in fact give support to these rogue groups by exaggerating their importance in stead of supporting the vast of the worlds peaceful Muslims. ISIS and Al Qaida would never have existed had President Bush never invaded Iraq, the war in Afghanistan has strengthened the Taliban and now Libya is another breeding ground for extremists. Thank you Israel and America but pleas do not try to help us any more!!!

  • Harry Binn

    The only reason that these Muslims are speaking out against ISIS is because of the brutal ways they have killed other Muslims of their own sect. On the other hand, they have not said boo to the 200,000 Syrians who’ve died and the 3,000,000 forced out of their homes.

  • TeamINFIDEL

    I should add that if the sick behavior of these quran following Muslims like ISIS is not going to be handled by ACTIONS coming from the muslim community (not cheap lip service as you read above), us people on the outside of this cult ideology will then blame the entire muslim community and then be FORCED to address all of the ills of their ISLAM.

    That is human nature…whether these people like it or not!

  • TeamINFIDEL

    Sorry…the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria we call ISIS is simply following all the directions and orders to punish, convert, tax (called jizya in arabic), fight and KILL as outlined in their quran!

    These muslim savages are also behaving EXACTLY like their self proclaimed terrorist and pedophole prophet of Islam…you know him as muhammad. This animal led around 65 to 70 terrorist attacks himself in the first years of the Islamic era.

    Once you read the quran and hadith, will you understand what drives “good” muslims like ISIS, Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaida to carry forth as they do!

    Got Islam? ISIS sure does!!

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