Common Word, Common Lord

Common Word, Common Lord


‘Islamic Jew-Hatred': It’s NOT in the Quran

In the Name of God: The Infinitely Merciful and Compassionate Beloved

Pamella Geller has put up bus ads in Washington, D.C. that say:

Islamic Jew-hatred: It’s in the Quran. Two-thirds of all US aid goes to Islamic countries. Stop racism. End all aid to Islamic countries.

Her contention is flat-out wrong.

The Quran is full of positive references to the Children of Israel and Jewish history. Many of the Jewish Prophets, in fact, are mentioned more by name than the Prophet Muhammad himself (peace be upon them all). Here is what the Quran says about the Torah, the Jewish Scripture:

It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). (3:3)

It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light…And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God (5:44,46)

Does this sound like “Islamic Jew-Hatred” to you?

Here is but a small bit of what the Quran says about the Jewish Prophets:

Say ye: “We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them, and to Him have we submitted ourselves. (2:136)

Behold, we have inspired thee [O Prophet] just as we inspired Noah and all the prophets after him – as We inspired Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, including Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon; and as We vouchsafed unto David a book of divine wisdom (4:163)

And We bestowed upon him [Abraham] Isaac and Jacob, and We guided each of them as We had guided Noah aforetime. And out of his offspring, [We bestowed prophethood upon] David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses and Aaron: for thus do We reward the doers of good. And upon Zachariah, John, Jesus, and Elijah: ever one of them was of the righteous; and [upon] Ishmael, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot: every one of them did We favor above other people (6: 84-86).

Does this sound like “Islamic Jew-Hatred” to you?

Now, indeed, there are seemingly tough verses in the Quran about the children of Israel:

Those of the children of Israel who were bent on denying the truth have [already] been cursed by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary; this because they rebelled [against God] and persisted in transgressing the bounds of what is right. (5:78)

There a few points here: first, the verse does not say that “all Jews are cursed.” The verse says that those children of Israel who did wrong were cursed by David and Jesus. And here is the scriptural evidence for this:

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (Matthew 23:33-35)

The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel. For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.Therefore their days did he consume in vanity, and their years in trouble. (Psalm 78:31-33)

Moreover, there are some verses in the Quran that are oft-quoted by those who claim “Islamic Jew-Hatred” which seem to call Jews “apes” and “pigs and monkeys”:

And well you knew those among you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. We said to them ‘Be ye apes, despised and rejected.’ (2:65)

And ask them about that town which stood by the sea: how its people would profane the Sabbath whenever their fish came to them, breaking the water’s surface, on a day on which they ought to have kept Sabbath – because they would not come to them on other than Sabbath-days!…And then, when they disdainfully persisted in doing what they had been forbidden to do, We said unto them: ‘Be as apes despicable!’ (7:163-166)

Say: ‘Shall I tell you who, in the sight of God, deserves a yet worse retribution than these? They whom God has rejected and whom He has condemned, and whom He has turned into apes and swine because they worshiped the powers of evil: these are yet worse in station and father astray from the right path [than the mockers].” (5:60)

 

Indeed, some Muslims have claimed that Jews are “pigs and monkeys,” apparently based on these verses. As horrible as their claim is, their use of the Quran is completely incorrect.

As the verses clearly show, the Quran is not saying “Jews are apes and monkeys.” In fact, there is no verse in the Quran – none – that says “Jews are apes and monkeys.” The verses above speak about the Sabbath Breakers: it was they who were turned into apes because they broke the law of the Sabbath. Commentator Muhammad Asad (a Jew who converted to Islam) explains this story:

Under Mosaic Law, they were obliged to refrain from all work – and, therefore, also from fishing – on Sabbath-days, with the result that the fish were more plentiful and would come closer to the shore on those days: and the inhabitants of the town took this as an excuse to break the Sabbath-law.

In fact, according to Asad, the term “be ye apes” may only be metaphorical and not literal:

As for the substance of God’s decree, “Be as apes despicable”, the famous tabii [student of the Prophet’s (pbuh) Companions] Mujahid explains it thus: ‘(Only) their hearts were transformed, that is, they were not (really) transformed into apes: this is but a metaphor (mathal) coined by God with regard to them, similar to the metaphor of ‘the ass carrying books’ (62:5)”…A similar explanation is given by Raghib. It should be borne in mind that the expression “like an ape” is often used in classical Arabic to describe a person who is unable to restrain his gross appetites or passions.

The point is: there is no basis for the claim that “Islamic Jew-Hatred” is in the Quran. In fact, there is no such thing as “Islamic Jew-Hatred.” Islam does not command Muslims to hate anyone, Jewish or otherwise.

Now, are there Muslims who hate Jews? Most definitely. Are there Muslims who cite the Quran as their basis for hating Jews? Most definitely. Are they correct in their interpretation? Most definitely not. Don’t put your filthy words in God’s Holy Mouth.

 

 

 



  • fazalk

    This may help you to understand when the tax applies and when it doesn’t in addition to why it exists in the first place.

    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/nothing-islamic-about-isis-part-two-what-the-jizya-really-means.html

  • fazalk

    Thanks for writing. I think this is an old thread. I have moved on but I will say that your assumptions about why people became Muslims are erroneous to say the least. No large society is perfect, but there is a reason that Islamic societies were the most advanced societies before their advancement crept into Europe and movements like the Renaissance took place. Societal advancement as occurred in the lands of Islam did not happen by accident and certainly not by the sword. You need to look at other sources of information. That is not an insult. Just a suggestion.

  • Robert Burke

    And no other religion teaches the “Faithful” to be in the protection racket!! The only way another religions followers can live in peace versus Islam is if the pay the “Jizya”, a tax that grows ever increasing due to the greed of the leaders in Islam. The only way in hell people ever converted to Islam was due to this tax. And we see that by and far the most true is that they secretly followed their own religions for centuries. When the Ottoman Empire fell, most returned to their own religions no longer in secret and this resulted in hate wars that still plague us to this day in Bosnia, Serbia and all over Africa!!

  • Howard Fox

    Winston, you are a real nut job. BTW most of the Nazis were white Christians with guns, like you.

  • Howard Fox

    Winston, Jesus, were he alive, would consider your words evil. The difference between you and him is that he would probably forgive you and hope that you grew up, whereas you just spit hate and voodoo garbage and lie in the name of something you are incapable of even beginning to understand. Sad and pathetic.

  • michael

    so that is your blog? or you have something to do with it?
    “Mike Ghouse
    The recompense referred to here is “against those who wage war”. Every nation follows that policy, indeed, when Osama Bin Laden waged war against us, we attempted to recompense that evil man for waging the war, and we still trying to do that. Although we are destroying others thoughtlessly instead of getting the evil man and hang him, if he were caught in Texas, we will electrocute him.
    Indeed, the Qur’an adds, if the aggressors stop the aggression, do not go after them. Is there any nation on this earth, or an individual who would not stop the aggressor?” there are pacificsts on the planet. you have never heard of amish or menonites?
    are you a muslim?

    you miss the questionable part of that verse as well as in 5:32. the spreading corruption part. what does that mean? plus don’t you think we should be getting away from the death penalty? and even if not, you would favor stoning people to death or crucifying them?

  • michael

    mike, yes i know the explaination of 9:5. that is a copy and paste form what santiago said. not sure what happened there? it’s been 4 months. i never quote 8:12 and 9:5. i know about the battles of badr, uhud and trench.
    anyway, when do you crucify people? do you think aposttes should be put to death? adulterers?
    jew hatred is not an important part of the koran. it does call christian and jews liars and claims any of us who don’t believe in their god ignorant…etc. so what do you think of the hadith that says the trees and rocks will cry out, ‘there is a jew behind me. muslims come kill it.’?
    thanks for the link, i’ll check it out. you should check this one out http://www.searchtruth.com
    the 81st, 82nd and 84th book of bukhari under the hadith button are interesting.
    mike malzahn
    aka badtooth

  • YoshiNakamura

    Nice try, Mike, but you know as well as I do that other verses in the Koran negate this verse and condemn Jews and Christians to hell as cursed blasphemers. There are books written which examine all the anti-Semitic and anti-Christian verses in the Koran. These books also give the commentaries by the most respected Islamic religious authorities. There can be no doubt that the verse you quoted in an exception and stands in contradiction to many, many other verses in the Koran — not to mention the hadiths. For books about Islamic anti-Semitism, see Andrew Bostom’s “The Legacy of Islamic Antri-Semitism”, and “Al Yahud — Eternal Islamic Enmity and the Jews” by Solomon and Maqdisi.

  • http://www.MikeGhouse.net Mike Ghouse

    YOSHI – A CHALLENGE TO YOU

    1. Check the verses you quote in actual Quran
    2. Read three verses before, and three after the given verse
    3. You will see, Quran is about justice, pluralism and respect for all of God’s creation.
    4. 60 Verses are deliberately mistranslated by Christian Europe in 1142 AD
    5. A Muslim has mistranslated Quran in 1924
    6. Both Christians and Muslims have played their games
    7. Good news is 25 translations, 1 is almost the best by Muhammad Asad and others are ok, 2 are evil translations – one by Christians in 1142 other by Muslim Hilali Khan in 1924.

    Finding the truth is your own responsibility, and I must admit, I was an atheist and had the same response as you do, but when I spent time, found out that Quran is a pluralistic document that promotes coexistence and building cohesive societies and in the late 90’s I chose to become a Muslim after 30 years of being an Atheist.

    At least you find the truth on your own, you won’t believe any one, like I did not.

    Mike Ghouse
    Quraantoday.com

  • Guest
  • http://www.MikeGhouse.net Mike Ghouse

    [2:136] Say, “We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in
    what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the
    Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the
    prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To
    Him alone we are submitters.”

  • http://www.MikeGhouse.net Mike Ghouse

    [10:99] Had your Lord willed,
    all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the
    people to become believers?

    [18:29] Proclaim: “This is the truth from your Lord,” then whoever
    wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve….

  • http://www.MikeGhouse.net Mike Ghouse

    Yoshi,

    God assures Jews, Christians and others the following;

    [2:62] Surely, those who believe,
    those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1)
    believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a
    righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They
    have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

  • http://www.MikeGhouse.net Mike Ghouse

    Mis-represented verse

    Surah
    9, ayah 5, the book says, when the sacred months are over, slay the
    idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them and lie in
    ambush everywhere for them.”

    Check this out: http://quraan-today.blogspot.com/2007/12/slay-idolaters-95.html

  • Al Yafei

    Really bro
    Google is full of lie but my holy book is Not
    Take your time and read Quran and if you find any word from allah show that Muslim or Islamic jew-hatred

    Im going to convert to anything you want to

    I guess Im not bluffing here and its your option

  • Infidel

    This sounds like Jew and Christian hatred, oh and non-believer hatred:

    ur’an 9:29-Fight against Christians and Jews ”until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.”

    Qur’an 4:91- If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant.

    . Qur’an 9:7-9-Don’t make treaties with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers and should not be trusted.

    Qur’an 9:12-14-Fight the disbelievers! Allah is on your side; he will give you victory.

    . Qur’an 9:5 Kill the nonbelievers wherever you find them.

    Qur’an 2:191-2-Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

    Qur’an (5:51) – ”O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.”

    Qur’an (2:65-66) Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.

    Qur’an (4:48, 4:116)-Those who ascribe a partner to Allah (like Christians do with Jesus and the Holy Spirit) will not be forgiven. They have “invented a tremendous sin.”

    Qur’an (4:51)-Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims.

    Qur’an (5:51) Don’t take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.

    Qur’an (5:80) – “You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.” Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

    Qur’an (3:85) – ”And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.”

    . Qur’an 9:6-Those who submit and convert to Islam will be treated well. (Those who don’t submit will be killed. See previous verse.)

    Qur’an 5:53 Jews and Christians are losers.

    Qur’an 5:59 Jews and Christians are evil-livers.

    Qur’an 5:63 Evil is the handiwork of the rabbis and priests.

    Qur’an 5:72 Christians will be burned in the Fire.

    Qur’an 5:73Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom.

    Qur’an 9:30Christians and Jews are perverse. Allah himself fights against them.

    Qur’an 9:34 Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis.

    Qur’an 19:35-37“Woe unto the disbelievers from the meeting of an awful Day.”
    Jesus was not the Son of God. Those who say he was (Christians) are going to hell.

    Qur’an 28:62-64 Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying: Where are My partners whom ye imagined?

    Qur’an 40:73Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my parnters that you used to believe in?

    Ishaq:364 “Muslims, take not Jews and Christians as friends. Whoever protects them becomes one of them, they become diseased, and will earn a similar fate.”

    Qur’an 3:67 ”Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was a true Muslim, surrendered to Allah (which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.”

  • AHMAD ALBAB

    Interesting. Im from Malaysia and i totally agree with you.

  • Pingback: Don't Justify Hatred of Jews By Using The Word of God

  • badtooth

    ok boss. watch out for the devil? look out, he’s right there behind you. throw some salt over your shoulder.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    judaic mammonism = baphomet = mahomet = islam

    it is the same devil

  • Pingback: 'Islamic Jew-Hatred': It's NOT in the Quran - Prophecy News Report

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    You listen to crap…

  • badtooth

    ok. not sure what you mean here, either. are you calling me a fag? lol.
    i think maybe you should see a doctor. you might need some meds?

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    Ben Dragon Siparis duyuyorum…

    Muslims do not deny Jesus has come in the flesh… Jews deny Jesus ever existed…

    Islam is an idolatry of a Muslim dominated world government… Likewise, Zionism is an idolatry of a Jewish dominated world government.

    Moses was the first philosopher who said that our rights do not come from an earthly monarch… This idea is the foundation of the United States Constitution, something the Jews and Muslims hate.

    And, since I was raised as a Buddhist, I think both of you are insane twins… Buddha wasn’t a Christian, but Jesus would have been a good Buddhist.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    Mammals evolve heterosexually.

    You go to the Church of the Stinky Donut Hole?

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    (judaic mammonism) baphomet = mahomet (muslim brotherhood)

    same devil

  • YoshiNakamura

    Fazalk, you sound like a decent enough fellow, but you are quite at odds with the greatest Islamic scholars for the past 1300 years. Why should a poor infidel believe you instead of them? Neither you nor anyone else can produce the “context” of those many violent and hateful Koran verses which make those verses mean something other than what they so clearly look like they mean. Surely, if Allah had wanted them to mean something else, he would have said so. All of this makes a huge difference to the world because the Koran is taught and preached in every mosque, and all of the Islamic supremacists from the less violent Muslim Brotherhood to extremely violent Al Qaeda and Boko Haram quote the Koran to justify their acts of violence. They have all studied the Koran and Islam; and most of them are native speakers of Arabic.

  • fazalk

    Good to hear from you again, Yoshi. It does not matter what I say about my study of the Quran because it seems you have made up your mind. Instead I will say if I misrepresent a verse of the Quran, that is on me and I will have to defend myself against my Lord (I don’t get a free ride like my Christian brothers). If I don’t believe in my Lord then why bother with verses and context? Or the Quran for that matter? Needless to say, how you quote the Quran has no effect on you (in your mind) because there are no consequences (again, in your mind). I, the Muslims at CAIR, the grand Mufti of Poobar, or the guy at my 7/11 all have to go in front of our Lord and explain why we misquoted him, why we didn’t take context, situation, reason, the main Islamic themes into account when we made our declarations. So I do put a lot of care into context, meaning, purpose, result when I read every chapter of the Quran. When you have as much to lose as I, and you realize that, then we will be on equal terms regarding interpretation of the Quran.

  • YoshiNakamura

    You never actually read the Koran, did you? It shows. As for what you call “cherry-picking”, every word of the Koran is considered Allah’s literal word, so “cherry-picking” is perfectly o.k. CAIR and other Moslem propagandists quote passages from the Koran all the time. Are they “cherry-picking”?

  • YoshiNakamura

    Are you forgetting that your God created the Devil? Are you forgetting that Jesus was thoroughly Jewish who came not to abolish the (Jewish) Law but to fulfill it?

  • badtooth

    thanks. that was hilarious. religious people make me laugh.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384

  • fazalk

    Actually, I never think of anything being “the same”. That leads to stereotypes. What I will say is that Muslims are not anti-Christ. We are the opposite. We respect and revere Isa (PBUH) as one of the greatest Prophets of God. We just don’t believe all the ideas that grew in Christianity years after Isa (PBUH) had left such as his divinity, him being an object of worship, being the road to salvation through worship of him, etc… There is only one God and he does not come down to humanity as a human with all bodily functions and shortcomings like hunger, thirst, need to relieve himself. Can’t do it. Makes no sense. What I can believe (and always have) is that he was a great Prophet of God who was given the ability to perform miracles, and transmitted a beautiful message of inner peace and community around worship of God. Unfortunately, time did that in as the message changed and was cemented with the Roman Empire. But fortunately, God spoke again, with a universal message to mankind (including the “gentiles”). That makes more sense (to me). I can’t speak about the Hasablaba (sp) liars. I can only assume you mean I am trying to smooth things over through lies. I am not smoothing anything over. I clearly recognize what has happened in Muslim lands due to lack of education, poor leadership, cherry picking of verses (yes, this happens in extremist groups, the uneducated, and hate sites). But this is a problem in all communities, Muslim and non-Muslim.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    the hasabra liars would have men believe the path to Salvation is found in the conflict between devils

    nothing could be further from the truth

    all men are born of a woman and are offered Salvation

    all men are given the power to judge, none are given power to condemn

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    judaism is anti-Christ just like islam…

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    arabs are also semites

    both judaism and islam are anti-Christ

    both are lying bítches of the devil

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    judaic mammonism = baphomet = mahomet = islam

    it is the same devil

    you would have men believe the path to Salvation is found by taking sides in the conflict between devils

    – ordo draconis, sine pari

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    judaic mammonism = baphomet = mahomet = islam

    it is the same devil

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ Winston Blake

    Ben Dragon Siparis duyuyorum…

    judaic mammonism = baphomet = mahomet = islam

    it is the same devil

  • badtooth

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_al-Qibtiyya
    i am yet to hear you say we shouldn’t marry 9 year-olds. disappointing. you keep making excuses for muhammad and allah. the later should certainly know that a girl giving birth for the first time under the age of 20, is 5 times more likely to die in childbirth. and when you get under 15 it is even worse. he should certainly know about obstetric fistula.
    listen, you said the “crux” of my arguement was this, muhammad marrying a 9 year-old. i’m telling you i have a plethora of arguements to show the stupidty of islam.
    so as a learned muslim, can you answer a simple question? should a man be allowed today to marry a menstrating 9 year-old girl, and then have sex with her?

  • badtooth

    here is my post:
    “dude, your reading comprehension is really worrying me. i never said he was a pedophile. that was bob. i called him a statutory rapist BY MODERN STANDARDS. of course the people around muhammad didn’t call him a pedophile, they all did the same thing.
    “the crux of my agruement.” how about the hadd punisments? we haven’t even got into “blood money”, jinn, gog and magog. slavery? how about mary the copt. he accepts a person as a ‘gift’? was she a wife or just a concubine. coitus interruptus? you didn’t even touch the hadiths about muhammad punching aisha in the chest and the woman beaten by her husband. fgm, or not plucking eyebrows? no music except the duff?
    please, people 100 years ago were morons. the first state to take away ‘a husband’s right’ to beat his wife was alabama, 1871. we are evolving and moving forward, not backwards. we don’t go by “if they bleed they breed”. you are truly a sick man. stay away from the middle schools. and the highschools, unless you are in high school, which seems to be the case.”
    so where did i say ‘what’s up with that’????

  • fazalk

    I don’t think there was anything constructive in that last paragraph. After I removed the unnecessary insults, there was very little substance. Try to have at least 50% of your post have some substance as a minimum. The Islam you describe is is unrecognizable to me. You list items one after the other that have no relation to each other and then you say, “what’s up with that?”. I don’t know what specific aspect you are referring to. Any context at all or are we in kindergarten. Islam is a very mature worldview and religion and if you are going to make your presentation like a Seinfeld joke, especially one that I’m not understanding, I’m afraid I can’t answer your question. Do you want to discuss punishments? Marriages? Reasons for war? Prayer? Acts of establishing a relationship with the Creator? The baseline for decent behavior in a society? The fact that there are always exceptions? The modern equivalent for “blood money”? How the Prophet (PBUH) had people of different cultures, men and women, not only play the duff, but other instruments with singing and dancing? How slavery like alcohol was systematically removed from society so that a slave could rise to the greatest position alongside his brothers (Bilal (R))? Are you talking about Mary (the Copt) (R), his wife, who was no different in rights from his other wives? I don’t know why you would think she was a concubine. I’m just not learning anything from you. I was hoping there would be knowledge at the end of this conversation. Disappointing.

  • badtooth

    dude, your reading comprehension is really worrying me. i never said he was a pedophile. that was bob. i called him a statutory rapist BY MODERN STANDARDS. of course the people around muhammad didn’t call him a pedophile, they all did the same thing.
    “the crux of my agruement.” how about the hadd punisments? we haven’t even got into “blood money”, jinn, gog and magog. slavery? how about mary the copt. he accepts a person as a ‘gift’? was she a wife or just a concubine. coitus interruptus? you didn’t even touch the hadiths about muhammad punching aisha in the chest and the woman beaten by her husband. fgm, or not plucking eyebrows? no music except the duff?
    please, people 100 years ago were morons. the first state to take away ‘a husband’s right’ to beat his wife was alabama, 1871. we are evolving and moving forward, not backwards. we don’t go by “if they bleed they breed”. you are truly a sick man. stay away from the middle schools. and the highschools, unless you are in high school, which seems to be the case.

  • fazalk

    Well here is where we differ. You say Muhammad (PBUH) is not a Prophet for all time because he married a 9 year old girl and in today’s society we frown upon that (call it pedophilia which you were also incorrect about as the fetish ends with menstruation in pedophilia) but I’ll let that slide (give you a break, you’ve earned it). You made that statement many times. It was the whole crux of your argument about his Prophethood. Now you are starting something entirely different. Anyway, you made your statement, but it is that exact statement that tells me Muhammad’s (PBUH) ways were ahead of his time and perfect for the modern day. NOT ONLY did he marry in a way that was acceptable during his time, but he also did some very unconventional things like marrying a widow, a divorce, a women of a different ethnicity, and I have listed so many other unconventional marriages he had. While you choose to fixate on the one that people of his time had the least problem with, I will focus on the ones that they did have problems with such as marrying a non virgin, or people of different faiths (a Christian and a Jew). These are things we have just started to do in modern society in the last 100 years or so, but he opened the door and as a Prophet he made sure everyone saw him doing it. He was a great man, if not the greatest.

  • badtooth

    “are we done”? i hope not. you should come over to islam.com. it’s me and a bunch of muslims. we can get deeper into the threads. u r patient. me 2. no one called him a pedophile. sounds right. for that time he wouldn’t be considered one. bob is applying a modernday morality to an ancient time.
    society destroyer is acurate though. clearly he destroyed the arab pagan society.

  • badtooth

    dude, you are missing the point. i understand ancient societies and life expectancy and that physical strength was more important. an agrarian society is built on the strength of men’s backs. i don’t care that muhammad married a child. that is how it was done back then. i don’t care that jefferson had slaves. he was a man of his tiimes. i don’t care that abraham had sex with his wife’s hand maden. the point is that none of this is divinely inspired. it’s not muhammad that is the problem. it is your ‘god’.

  • badtooth

    ah, the 4 witnesses. that was a long time coming. you forgot or confession, because stoning will wash away the sin. or the most often forgotten, pregnancy.
    yes, if everybody followed the rules, there would be no need for punishments. thanks captain obvious. the problem is your punishments are barbaric and torturous.
    what lemons? the hadiths are the hadiths. i didn’t write them. i just read them.
    women are on the same level as men in practical and spiritual level? you sure. a woman needs her male wali to approve her spouse. she inherits half as much as a man. and before you lecture me on the ‘men are the maintainers and protectors of women’. let me say all that does is relegate women to a perpetual state of childhood. hardly the same level in practical matters. for spiritual matters women can’t pray or touch the koran when they are “unclean”. lol. you expect them to make up all those prayers? they can’t lead men in prayer. can’t be the caliphate. always need a wali. please. dude, for an american your english is poor. sup wit dat? that is not the same level.

  • badtooth

    Santiago Matamoros fazalk • 3 days ago
    “kill the pagans wherever you find them” (Qur’an 9:5) isn’t “hate”?
    You need a new dictionary.see more 1 Voting has changed. Learn more

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    fazalk Santiago Matamoros • 3 days ago
    That’s not hate. That’s common sense.

    i’ve twisted nothing.

  • fazalk

    Are we done yet, or are you just going to keep bringing up red herrings with no context or understanding in hopes of getting an outburst from me? I am a patient man because that is the quality of a Muslim. People (non believers) of the Prophet’s (PBUH) time called him a lot of derogatory things (magician, demon, society destroyer, one who separates parents from their children, and probably every Arab profanity to boot), but they never called him a pedophile. I would think that would be first on their list. I wonder why? These are the signs for those who reflect.

  • fazalk

    I want you to put yourself in a century outside of the 21st for a second. A society where the role of men and women are very defined and set because it is a hostile environment (in temperature, landscape, survival, disease). Why are they so defined? Because without these roles everything crumbles in this society. Age of survival is very low so people arrange marriages at very young ages (6,7,8). Girls are taught to take on large responsibilities at a very young age. A child is fortunate to get to marrying age, and the average age of life is 40 years. While Islamic society greatly increased her chances of achieving something beyond a being an attractive piece f property, life was still difficult in the harsh conditions of society. In this time and place in history, it made sense for a girl to marry early. But nine years old? Isn’t that a little too young? I don’t know. There were no oppositions from the non believers at the time, and they were not hesitant to start scandals where the Prophet (PBUH) was concerned. We can only assume it was not unusual and she was physically mature. We know that from the conversations of the Prophet (PBUH) and Aisha (R) (your favorite of the Prophet’s wives from your clear obsession with her over all other wives), that she had all the feelings of a teenager/young person. We also know that she lived through all of his Prophethood and observed and commented on his behavior in great detail. In all those comments, never did she complain about his nature or mention that he had a “sexual perversion of attraction to children’. None of his other wives made that claim either. If it was the Prophethood that dissuaded them from stating this out loud, his pre-Prophethood wife, Khadeeja (the widow he married who was 15 years his senior), also never mentioned him having sexual perversions towards children

  • fazalk

    I am a “share the message of Islam with people who are desperate for Guidance from their Lord” kind of Muslim. Its not the laws that are the problem. Its the morality of society. Also just because you live in a “Muslim” society, does not mean that you practice perfect morals or even adequate morals. You can create all the laws you want, but if society is corrupt, they will find a way around the laws. Islam, when practiced in totality (strong morals combined with laws that strongly dissuade people committing sin), make an excellent combination for justice and smooth running of society. These questions are a little too advanced for this thread so I will limit my response to this…I don’t want anyone to be stoned. That’s the point. Even in the time of the Prophet (PBUH) he left adultery in the hands of those committing the sin. The rule was that if there were not four witnesses to the crime (good luck finding four witnesses), then the matter was between husband and wife and God. If Islam gave women their inalienable rights (from the time before Islam when they were treated as property and objects of shame where girls were buried alive) that put them on the same level as men in all practical and spiritual aspects, why would he send them to be subjugated and beaten by their husbands? Are you gonna keep serving up lemons?

  • badtooth

    nothing on why the all-knowing god wouldn’t tell his last ‘prophet’ not to marry children, menstrating or not.

  • fazalk

    As usual, you are twisting the words I have said so they bear no resemblance to my words. I wont waste my time with your implications regarding the black stone. http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/07/misconceptions-about-black-stone-al_21.html?m=1
    Should address your silliness.

  • badtooth

    lol, misinformantion. you said it is common sense to kill pagans, not hate. i’m just trying to clarify what you mean by that.who said anything about forceful convertion? aren’t you going to quote 2:256? so after clearling the kabaa of 360 idols, why did muhammad keep the black stone? and why do muslims kiss it?

  • badtooth

    yeah i saw the article on ireland. funny it comes a couple weeks after the president or PM apoligized to the muslims for saying that their laws will not be allowed, or something like that.
    did you say “our society/country”? don’t tell me you are an american? the reason the people jump to the hadd punishments is because they are so insane. are you a kill the apostate, 3 days to repent, muslim? kill the blasphemer?
    those things you mentioned murder, slander, etc are all crimes in america, other than adultry. that is a civil matter if a spouse chooses to take it to court. but you want to stone them to death? lol.
    as to domestic violence amreica has strict laws that if the police are called and anyone has a mark on them the other spouse goes to jail. as opposed to the hadith where aisha pleads withh muhammad on the behalf of a beaten wife and all muhammad does is send her back with her husband. or the time muhammad punches aisha in the chest hard enough to cause her pain.

  • fazalk

    Thank you for taking me through the “tour” of misinformation you are providing. It gives me an opportunity to address each one clearly and effectively. Not necessarily to convince you, but to convince others who are reading with an open mind and higher principles. Once again (this is becoming a trend now for you), you are taking a specific time, circumstance, example, and situation and applying it in a very general sense. Islam is deeper than that. I explained previously about the situation with pagans at the time of the Prophet (PBUH) so I will not repeat. Instead I will simply point out that if the goal of Islam was to eliminate anyone who was different than us from a faith perspective, where would we get our believers from? Secondly, since it has clearly been stated that a person may become Muslim at any point in his life, the tradition is to give them the opportunity, not to eliminate them before they see reality. As a Muslim, it is my job to give the message, accepting it is between a person and God. There is no forceful conversion as it is pointless. A person must believe on his own or what is the point. If you can understand this one golden principle of Islam, you will come out with a greater understanding.

  • fazalk

    Sorry, ran out of real estate. As I was saying, the point of a law is not to break it. That can only be done if societal morals are high and the laws of punishment are strict. If the laws are mere paper laws, they hold no weight. And they are useless when morals are lacking. Morals makes things like murder, adultery, poor business dealings, slander, domestic abuse, despotic leadership, justice the exception. Without that, what is the point of laws? We feel in our country that personal freedom is all that matters (as long as Im not hurting anyone, I should be allowed to do whatever I want). But you are hurting someone, you are hurting society. But even when strict laws are present, that does not mean that the laws are without mercy. That is the complexity of Islamic rulings of the past (effectively broken by colonization). For example, you always look at circumstances (many examples present in the Prophets time and throughout Islamic history). It was a complex and mature system of laws and precedent. You are trying to reduce it to a barbarian set of ridiculous rules practiced by criminals.

  • fazalk

    Again, you are using examples of modern societies in post-colonial lands where despotic leaders have taken charge and Islamic society is nowhere to be found except in its most passive form. When it is actually claimed to be practiced, it is practiced by criminals. Don’t expect to find thr true practice of Islam when your country is run by criminals. As I stated before, in a recent study done at George Washington University, the country that most espouses the principles of Islamic society in the modern era is actually Ireland. The first Muslim country on the list is Malaysia at 33. The authenticity of the Torah (as the original version spoken from the lips of Musa (PBUH)) is not verifiable. The Bible even less so. The point of Islam is very simple: 1) establish a relationship with your creator, 2) establish good relations within society. I love how people jump on the punishment of stoning/lashes. The point is not to commit the crime of relations outside of marriage. We can clearly see the results in our society from the combination of not having strict laws and having poor morals. There will be many more “jealousy killings”, “

  • badtooth

    fazalk, do you follow all examples set by Muhammad? do not most muslims follow his example? “you fail to ignore the events that lead up to the current situation in the Middle East”? not sure what that means? failing to ignore would mean one sees. perhaps you meant to say “fail to see” or “you ignore” and kind of combined them.
    anyway, is it not Muhammad’s example that leads to events in the middle east such as the 8 year-old girl dying on her wedding night, because of internal bleeding? Muhammad may not have technically been a pedophile, but he would certainly be a statutory rapist in the industrialized west. obviously the middle east, who still follow Muhammad’s example allow you to marry girls at the on set of puberty. do you think you should be allowed to marry a 9 year-old?

  • badtooth

    it’s common sense to kill pagans? I hope you aren’t in England. a couple of years ago they recognized the druids as a religion. so who do you consider pagans? the hindus and Buddhists? Shinto? traditional religions of china? the animist in Africa? how a bout voodoo and santirea ? anyone who is not a muslim or “people of the book”. that’s like 45% of the world. you got a lot of killing to do.

  • badtooth

    “reflect on reality”. I reflect on reality all the time. and reality is in Syria and Iraq. northern Niger and southern Philippines and all parts in between.
    anyway, your explanation eludes all reality. was the torah not already well established by the time of Muhammad. how are the jews of today and different than the jews of Muhammad’s time. same for the Christians. although there are now some Unitarian Christians. I guess muslims could be friends with Mormons? oh wait, they blasphemy by saying joseph smith was a prophet after Muhammad.
    so is the part of the bible where jesus comes upon a mob wanting to stone a woman one of the falsehood? they want to invoke the “divine punishment of rajam” that is in the old testament. jesus stops them and starts writing in the sand. he is writing the mobs sins. then he says, “let he who is without sin caste the first stone”. is that a correction of the old laws or a fabrication by the Christian bible writers?

  • fazalk

    I love the Surah Al-Maidah. Especially the story at the end when God asks Isa (Jesus) PBUH if he told his followers to worship him and Mary (PBUH). His answer is beautiful This Surah is a difficult one for Jews and Christians because it asks them to confront their mistakes. In the case of the Jews at the time of the Prophet (PBUH), they had strayed far from the teachings of the Torah. The flaw in Christianity was (and remains today) their belief in Isa/Jesus PBUH as God (which is addressed very beautifully near the end of the Surah through a conversation that occurs between God and Isa (PBUH)). The general idea is how the Jews and Christians of the Prophet’s time (PBUH) had strayed. Can they return to the correct path? Just as Isa (PBUH) came to correct errant ways and continue what was correct in the Torah and correct what was not, the Quran also came as the next correction of previous texts. It confirmed what was correct and corrected what wasn’t. As a modern man who has looked at history, it makes sense that Isa (PBUH) never claimed to be God. If he did, 1) no Jew would have followed him as it would have been blasphemy and 2) the disciples would have all mentioned such a crucial point in their books (which they did not). You just have to reflect on reality. When people don’t follow their own books and have strayed this far with no desire to return to the truth, what does that make them? You can always find Jews and Christians who don’t fit the character of the Jews and Christians the Muslims were facing at the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Those would be good people to have conversations with.

  • badtooth

    i’ve read the medina constitution. it’s not a bad document. strange it didn’t make it into the koran. didn’t that disolve after the battle of trench. and like the treaty of hudaybiyyah, was not these friendly attitudes abrogated by the 5th surah? most notably 5:51

  • fazalk

    Thank you for that last reply. You are claiming I am saying things that I am not, you are repeating the same things without defending them, you are stating that Islamic nations are actually following Islamic practices which they are not. And you fail to ignore the events that lead up to the current situation in the Middle East. All signs of a weak argument. You are making my argument for me.

  • http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/ BobSmith101

    You are correct about one thing. This conversation is going nowhere. As I said earlier you won’t directly address the facts. (And that is because you have been brainwashed by Islam.)

    Here is one fact. And even you – in your response – have agreed to the fact about Mohammad’s child pedophilia problem.

    You state “norms of the community at that time”like this is some kind of excuse for pedophilia.

    You know as well as me, all Muslims consider Mohammad the perfect person for “all times.”

    Well you can’t have it both ways. Here is the perfect example of brain washing. Your find a fact that does not
    mix with your inflexible view and you “wash” it away. You use some kind of distorted logic that sounds “close” but in reality does not fit the exact picture.

    Simply put – It is not proper for 54 year old men to have sex with 9 year old little girls today. If you can’t admit that – you have a big problem.

    Muslims believe Mohammad was the perfect man for “all times”. And “all times” means both during Mohammad’s time and today.

    Well if it is not OK for 54 year old men to have sex with 9 year old little girls today – then the “all times” statement is flawed. So what is the excuse? Why so much denial?

    Like I said. I do not hate Muslims. I feel sorry for them because they are caught up in a giant system that strips you of the right to question authority.

    But I do think the Ideology of Islam is a crime against the human race. God – just look at the violence in the Islamic world today. What a cesspool of hate – slit throats and
    yell God is great – and screw a bunch of little girls because “Mohammad” did it. What a sick system.

    Good luck, don’t let the Mullahs keep you from using your mind.

  • fazalk

    I’ll do better. I’ll refer you to the Medina charter (constitution) because hadith can be strong or weak but the charter of Medina which is the document on which the community of Medina was based, is clearly one where rights are protected. Specifically, the rights of non-Muslims are protected. 1) security of all in Medina, 2) same political and cultural rights including autonomy and freedom of religion, 3) unity of the larger community (non-Muslims could fight and defend the community with arms or wealth), and lastly, 4) non-Muslims were not obliged to take part in the specific wars related to spreading the message of Islam to other territories where the leaders outlawed the spread of information. Any questions?

  • fazalk

    BTW…
    pedophilia: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object. Clearly from what I stated before, the Prophet (PBUH) had other wives none of which were children. In past Arab society (and other societies where life expectancy was low), a girl was considered to be of marriageable age once puberty began. In fact, as stated before, this was Aisha’s (R) second engagement. The Prophet (PBUH) married a pubertal girl (pedophiles draw the line at puberty), a woman his age, a seventy year old woman, a widow, a divorcee, he was monogamous and he was polygamous, he married “up”, he married “down”, he married outside his tribe, and in regards to interracial marriage, he married an Egyptian and a Jewish sister. In regards to marriage, he stated, “marry one who is best in faith and character and you will prosper. Looks like the “brainwashing” goes both ways.

  • fazalk

    I don’t think this discussion is going anywhere. Instead of talking in your language I will actually tell you what the Prophet (PBUH) was. He was monogamous, he was polygamous, he married people when they were young, he married people his age, he married people who were older, nothing he did was outside the norms of the community at that time, he talked about how each partner should always treat each other with live, respect, patience, protection, and freedom. These are facts. Now if you want to call one of the greatest men who ever lived a pedophile, that’s your business. If you want to ignore the countless contribution that “Muslim” nations made in the past before colonization, that’s your decision, as well. Lastly, if you choose to ignore the cell phone you are typing on and the computer you use daily, and the advancements our nation has had in medicine, technology, that came from Muslims, I’m sure you have your reasons. But I will look at the whole picture. Let’s go on feeling sorry for each other and call it a day.

  • http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/ BobSmith101

    You can tell when someone is brainwashed. They simply refuse to believe facts.

    It’s a fact that when Mohammad was 54, he had sex with Aisha who was 9 years old. You can read about it in the Hadith. It is not a secret. All the writing about Aisha is from Muslim sources. Read them. Millions of people around the world are reading them. And we all are appalled that the entire Muslim civilization is based on a lie. – Mohammad is a pedophile by anybody’s standard.

    Don’t waist time telling me times have changed. I know Muslims believe Mohammad was the perfect man for “all time”. Well “all times” includes today. And today if a 54 year old man has sex with a 9 year old child – they go to jail. At least in a civilized country.

    Sorry – but that makes Mohammad a pedophile.

    Islam is not the greatest community. Nothing of any value comes from any Muslim country. Name world class consumer or commercial product that the Muslim civilization produces? By every measure Islam is a disaster.

    I do not hate Muslims. I feel sorry for you. You are locked up in a system created in the 7th century. You can’t change it, criticize it, or leave it without worrying about being killed by one of your deeply devout “jihadists”.

    Don’t you ever wonder where all the criticism of Islam comes from? Have you ever wanted to tell a Mullah off? What would your family say if you told them you were leaving Islam? Would you tell your neighbor?

    Like I said – I don’t hate Muslims. I feel sorry for them. All of you are all locked up in a 7th century nightmare. Good luck in trying to get free.

  • joe blow

    Of course, Dr. Hassaballa seems to point out that the Quran speaks well of Jews, Christians and implies that Islamists think of/treat ALL “religious” people with respect. This ‘verbal-sleight-of-hand’ is ALWAYS used by Islamist apologists; and, its very effective with people who haven’t been warned about Islamic ‘religious subtleties’ and how Islamists use such tools. As in this case…

    Dr. Hassaballa is practicing “Taqiyya” which is “Religious Dissimulation or, simply, Lying”. Its normally spoken of as a defensive tool in the Quran, et al, but today, its being used as an OFFENSIVE weapon in order to quiet the fears of the targeted Societies.

    So what the good Doctor is leaving out is that the he ALSO believes. along with the verses above, that his Islamic Spiritual Writings ALSO teach that ALL the Old & New Testament Prophets, Jesus, The Apostles, The Elders of Israel…. ALL the ‘Good Guys’ were Islamics and the ‘Bad Guys’, Judas comes to mind, were the REAL Jews, Christians, et al.

    You see, the guy pictured with Hitler in the Bus ad was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (for the Muslims only) and he worked to aid the Nazis to kill as many Jews as possible and he, sincerely did so because he KNEW the Quran, Hadith, et al gave him the orders to do this.

    Dr. Hassaballa believes the same things because he tells the same lies, uses the same tools to accomplish the same ends: the utter destruction of every Country, Social Group they infiltrate.

    Terrorism is used by such as the ONLY alternative to the slow subjection of ALL Western Societies to either 1…Become Muslim, or, 2…Submit to Sharia Laws and Islamic Superiority in EVERY area of your life (what the so-called Syrian Freedom Fighters, Boko Harem (Nigeria) and Shias in Iraq are doing to Christians, Jews, wherever they find them), Egypt, Tunisia, Libya… EVERY Country where Muslims make the Majority or a significant Minority (10%-15&)………… oh, yeah: Mustn’t forget

    3…Execution.

    After 9/11, it seems as though the American Leadership in particular (and Western G’ments, in general) surrendered and, without any public/private discourse, decided to begin to accept the Muslim Narrative. After the election of Obama, it ALL became so simple: Obama has ignored EVERY Movement which didn’t favor the Extremist Governments/Groups starting with Iran. Remember? The totally fraudulent election of Ahmadinejad, the marching in the streets, deaths of 1,000s of protesters and, finally, when the USA Public began to clamor, Obama saying that the US should “be neutral” and “not interfere” in the elections of other States.

    Remember that??

    Yet, when the Islamists began to replace THEIR Governments, he sent money, planes, No-Fly Zones, etc. tp Libya, Egypt, Tuisia, Sudan…

    He’s even traded 5-Terrorist Muslims for one Islamic Deserter.

    It’s b-or-i-n-g to follow all this stuff and WHY should you check out an “Islamophobic” site when EVERYONE knows… KNOWS… that they’re fanatical… nothing LIKE Dr. Hassaballa.

    Here’s just one.

    http://gatesofvienna.net/

    Hint: check out “El Ingles” under “Authors”. Or, just read the Dailies. You’re NOT going to read about the full picture (of which, the accusation of “Islamophobia”, is their greatest success) of the Jihad against the West and other non-Muslim Countries in the Main Stream Media(MSM). As for ANY Analysis which involves negatives about Islamism (Islamophobia!!)… Forget it!!

    The ONLY Moderate Muslims I’ve EVER come across after 12 years of ‘Chatting’ on-line are the same as Dr. Hassaballa in their writings, as here: on the side of Angels in speech but, actually, looking toward the days of the downfall of the West and ALL it stands for and ALL its people submitting to Islamic Societies through Sharia Laws.

    If they can JUST keep us quiet long enough where it would take Months, Years to root them out…

    You’re not likely to read about the Islamists and how YOUR Governments are submitting you to Sharia Laws because, after 9/11/01 (USA), 3/11/04 (Spain), 7/7/05(Great Britain), etc, etc, these Governments decided, like the Jews: “NEVER AGAIN!!” BUT, unlike the Jews, they meant, from that point on, they would cooperate with Islamists and hope that what has occurred… or IS occurring… in EVERY country where the Muslims have a hold, wouldn’t happen “here” or “NEVER AGAIN”.

    Dr. Hassaballa is proof that they’re wrong.

  • fazalk

    It is fascinating that the vast majority of information we have about the Prophet (PBUH) behaviors, habits, practices, character come from Aisha (R). In a society where marriage at a young age was the norm (including European countries) and the life spans were 40-60 years, the Prophet (PBUH) asked his friend for the hand of his daughter (Aisha (R)). He did not consummate the marriage when she was six. He consummated the marriage when she was in puberty (which was the norm). This was her second call to marriage. The first asking for her hand was before she was six and the groom cancelled on account of her father becoming a Muslim. From their relationship, we see how a man should be towards his wife (kindness, patience, love, etc…) and the same characteristics from a wife towards her husband. What we don’t see is complaints, arguments, anger, negative comments from Aisha (R) about her husband, the Prophet (PBUH). We see other stories of her life that were not favorable to the Prophet (PBUH), but not her displeasure with this marriage. The Quran describes married men and women as garments for each other. If you reflect on that for a second, you understand the deep meaning of that verse. A garment protects, covers shame, beautifies, is the thing that is closest to your physical body, literally, a garment has your back and the list goes on. In retrospect, it is clear why she was chosen. It is fascinating to see that she was a also a leader of the Muslim community whereas in todays Muslim communities, choosing a female as a leader has become incorrectly (and unofficially) frowned upon.

  • fazalk

    Social responsibility is just as important as personal freedom in ISLAM and at the preventative level. Not after the fact. You can’t fix the Wall Street problem after the world has crashed. You can’t fix the school shootings after the killings have occurred. You have to be morally disciplined SO THAT THESE THINGS DONT HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE. Now if they continue to happen, wouldn’t you agree there is something wrong with society. I read an interesting article that looked at which countries were closest or had the closest “systems” to what the Islamic model is. The first “Muslim” country on this list was Malaysia at 33. Ireland was listed as “closest to the model of a Muslim society.” I think it is hilarious that Muslims themselves are not following the principles of Islam as societies and the qualities that are supposed to be in countries that claim to follow Islamic principles, are in fact in western nations. Now there may be many reasons for this including Western colonization, despotic regimes, abuse of workers, etc… but that doesn’t change the facts. Lets see what happens with these Middle Eastern revolutions (Arab spring). So how do you fix these societal problems. In Islam, you start with yourself and your moral character, then both of you teach those principles to your family, then these family units comprise the community level. That is how you maintain the moral discipline and positive capabilities of a society. That is Islam. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • fazalk

    What is Islam? Most people have no clue. Let me start with a brief explanation. Islam is a way of life/a worldview in which everything revolves around recognition of one God who teaches, judges, controls, punishes, and rewards. As I stated before, the idea of God has been debated ad nauseum so I wont go into that. What I will state is God has clearly stated in the Quran that we have our weaknesses and that the world is flawed. We all know this. Islam is a method to 1) establish a relationship with the ultimate creator (from our own experiences we know that the most complex creation, a computer, required a plan, great thinkers, funds, building apparatuses, and execution with corrections along the way to come to fruition. And that’s just a computer.) So how do we overcome our weaknesses and create a better society based on principles of justice (including social justice), equality, fairness of pay/transactions, health, education, love over hate. Basically, the things that you find in our US constitution. But Islam also recognizes that it is not enough to just give rights. If the soul of a community is tainted, what good are rights? If morally you are corrupt, why would you take moral responsibility of your actions as a Wall Street executive, a high schooler with a gun, or a racist? Islam recognizes individual freedoms, but not at the cost of society. This is a huge difference between the U.S. domestic policy and Islam. IN the U.S. its all about personal freedom (you can do whatever you want as long it doesn’t physically hurt someone). No attention is given to societal responsibilty

  • fazalk

    LOL. My mind is free brother. I’m not the one who begins with hate and spews it out with every uttered word. Really? “Islam is a cult. Mohammed was a pedophile.” That’s your argument against the greatest community, society that ever existed in morality and justice? The facts that I stated about Muslims and other “people of the book” getting along better in Muslim lands prompts the response, “Islam predates…”, which has nothing to do with the topic at all. I think you’ve reached your wits end, my friend.

  • http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/ BobSmith101

    More moronic lies.

    Israel predates Islam by at least 1,500 years. And Christianity predates Islam by 600 years.

    The only real question is this: What is the mechanism that so effectively brainwashes Muslims?

    Islam is a cult. Mohammad was a pedophile.

    Don’t drink camel urine.

    Good luck getting your mind free.

  • fazalk

    The point is not to be cursed but to recognize ones mistakes and correct them. God is after all all-forgiving to the person who seeks the truth.

  • fazalk

    I’ll address the first point. This verse is in regards to the Christian worship in man over God. DESPITE being told that they should worship the one God, over time (likely after the apostles as none of them refer to Jesus as God except in a rhetorical sense in the last book (John?)), they ended up worshipping a man and ascribing divinity to him. That is the definition of going astray. That is why they are cursed. It is in the context of them not coming back to God. If I went astray and started believing God was a man (likely because of the influence of the Roman Empire on Christianity), I would be cursed as well for going astray.

  • fazalk

    We don’t hate anyone. That’s why Muslims and Jews got along fine with Jews preferring to live in Muslim lands to Christian lands due to their acceptance of Jews and Christians. Same with Christianity. When Salauddin overtook Palestine, he allowed all Christians who wished to leave free passage and he respected the religious institutions of Jews and Christians. The reason Zionists are hated now is due to the apartheid states of Israel. That is a different issue and one of recent dislike for the policies of Israel and the treatment of the Palestinians. This is getting boring.

  • fazalk

    That’s not hate. That’s common sense.

  • fazalk

    It is if you take the verse out of context and ignore when these verses were revealed. In fact, you picked very easy verses to defend. If this is the best you have, you should just give up. These verses were revealed In regards to the pagan behaviors that continued in and around the house of God (the Kaaba) despite it being a building built for the worship of God (monotheism) by Abraham (PBUH). Eg. Dancing naked around the Kaaba, idolatry where each tribe had their own God, etc… As the Kaaba was for the worship of one God, these pagan Gods wee not only destroyed, but people were outlawed from praying to these Gods in the Kaaba. They were also given four months to either leave or accept the true one God of all Prophets (who used to be their God as well prior to all the idolatry). So in essence it was about returning to the original message they had all strayed from over the centuries. When they returned to the true faith of God, they were treated as brothers/sisters and if they continued to oppose at this point, they were doing so out of stupidity, arrogance, and simply choosing not to see the truth in front of their eyes.

  • badtooth

    do you think islamqa.com is a hate site? or searchtruth.com? these are run by muslims. how about peacetv.com? or yusef estes?
    the koran says what the koran says. it is there for everyone to read along with the hadiths. don’t know if i would go so far as to say there is jew hatred in islam. but clearly muslims believe themselves superior to “people of the book”. and even more so to pagans and polytheists. and those of us who chose reason over ancient superstitions maybe crucified for “spreading mischief”. the book is so poorly written and the hadiths all over the place, it is amazing that people actually think it is some sort of “divine guidnace”.

  • fazalk

    The hate is piling up so I will delete it and simply tell everyone who is defending the truth of Islam to not waste your time trying to defend Islam or any truth for that matter against hate mongers. It cannot be done. As Allah (SWT) has stated so eloquently in the Quran, “there is no coercion in matters of faith”. People can quote anything they want but the principles that Islam is founded on stand on their own. I wouldn’t expect anything less from God. All the cherry picking, context ignoring, blatant misquoting, and lie propagating isn’t going to make a damn bit of difference because God has stated that his truth will always easily counter all lies. And it has. Period. So hate mongers, keep wasting your time. Much worse people than you saw the truth of Islam and became Muslim of their own decision. May you find peace.

  • YoshiNakamura

    I did not misquote 8:12; I quoted only a part of it in the interest of brevity. Your full quotation does absolutely nothing to change the meaning which is that Allah will cast terror into the hearts of the non-Moslems.(that is, those who have disbelieved). Are you seriously arguing that this declaration by Allah that he will strike terror into the hearts of non-believers has no effect on the behavior of Moslems toward non-Moslems?

    As for verse 9:5, the infamous Verse of the Sword, there is nothing else in that verse or in the following verse which diminishes or weakens, let alone cancels, the words I quoted. Here is the full verse:
    9:5– YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay
    the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in
    wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and
    establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way
    for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
    9:6 — YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to
    him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he
    can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

    “Repent” means to accept Islam and Muhammad. “Asking for asylum” means to go over to the side of the Moslems. Major Islamic scholars believe that 9:5 abrogated many of the other verses of the Koran.
    A major, popular, commentary on the Koran, Al-Jalalayn, says about this very verse that Moslems must deal with their enemies “until they have no choice except being put to death or acceptance of Islam”. Verse 9:6 means only that ignorant non-Moslems who ask for asylum must be given the chance to learn about Islam before measures are taken against them. Then, if they accept Islam, Moslems are to cease making war against them.
    In short, there is no context which cancels the commands to make war against non-Moslems.

  • http://amillennialist.blogspot.com Santiago Matamoros

    The fact that the “Mother of the Believers” — Muhammad’s favorite “wife” ‘Aisha — began her life as his child sex slave when she was only a poor, little, innocent, prepubescent nine-year-old tells you all you need to know about Islam.

    And those who follow it:

    “Narrated ‘Aisha [Mohammed’s six-year-old “bride” and nine-year-old sexual “partner”]: ‘Allah’s Apostle said (to me), “You were shown to me twice in (my) dream [before I married you]. Behold, a man was carrying you in a silken piece of cloth and said to me, ‘She is your wife, so uncover her,’ and behold, it was you. I would then say (to myself), ‘If this is from Allah, then it must happen.'”‘” (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Number 139 and 140).

    “Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age” (Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234).

    “A’isha […] reported: Allah’s Apostle […] married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old” (Muslim Book 8, Number 3310).

    “Narrated ‘Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)” (Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 and 65).

    “Narrated ‘Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)” (Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88).

    “Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consum[mat]ed that marriage when she was nine years old” (Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236).

    “Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin: The Apostle of Allah […] married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah […] and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter” (Bukhari Book 41, Number 4915).

    “Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah […] and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine” (Bukhari Book 41, Number 4917).

    “Narrated ‘Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)” (Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151).

    “‘A’isha […] reported that Allah’s Apostle […] married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he [Mohammed] died she was eighteen years old” (Muslim Book 8, Number 3311).

  • http://amillennialist.blogspot.com Santiago Matamoros

    Before Muhammad’s rise to power, his “revelations” contained elements of tolerance and cooperation.

    Once he had the martial strength, those verses devolved into slavery or slaughter for who refuse the “invitation” to convert.

    And “dhimmi” sounds nice, right? — “protected” status for Jews and Christians (primarily) — but the protection is from Muslims themselves.

    Please, stop lying. Have a little dignity.

  • http://amillennialist.blogspot.com Santiago Matamoros

    Liar:

    “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter […]” (Qur’an 5:33).

    Ibn Kathir says of this verse: “‘Wage war’ mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil.” So, Muhammad requires execution, crucifixion, or cutting off hands and feet from opposite sides for “disbelief.”

  • http://amillennialist.blogspot.com Santiago Matamoros

    “kill the pagans wherever you find them” (Qur’an 9:5) isn’t “hate”?

    You need a new dictionary.

  • http://amillennialist.blogspot.com Santiago Matamoros

    Hassaballa is an inveterate liar.

    On Muhammad’s special love for Jews:

    “Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews” (Muslim Book 41, Number 6985).

    Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant” (Qur’an 5:82).

    “And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: “Be ye apes, despised and rejected” (Qur’an 2:65).

    “Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil; these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path” (Qur’an 5:60)!

    “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him”‘” (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177).

    “We were (sitting) in the mosque when the Messenger of Allah […] came to us and said: (Let us) go to the Jews. We went out with him until we came to them. The Messenger of Allah […] stood up and called out to them (saying): O ye assembly of Jews, accept Islam (and) you will be safe.

    […]

    “he killed their men, and distributed their women, children and properties among the Muslims, except that some of them had joined the Messenger of Allah […] who granted them security. They embraced Islam. The Messenger of Allah […] turned out all the Jews of Medlina. Banu Qainuqa’ (the tribe of ‘Abdullah b. Salim) and the Jews of Banu Haritha and every other Jew who was in Medina.

    […]

    “It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah […] say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim” (Muslim Book 19, Number 4363-4366).”

    On Muhammad’s special love for Jews and Christians, deceptively called by Muslims and their apologists “People of the Book”:

    “It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah […] say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim” (Muslim Book 19, Number 4363-4366).”

    “Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Apostle […] said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. ‘Umar b. Abd al-‘Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah’s Messenger […]” (Muslim Book 37, Number 6666).

    “Those who disbelieve, neither their possessions nor their (numerous) progeny will avail them aught against Allah: They are themselves but fuel for the Fire” (Qur’an 3:10).

    “‘There is none born but is created to his true nature (Islam). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Magian quite as beasts produce their young with their limbs perfect. Do you see anything deficient in them?’ Then he quoted the Qur’an, ‘The nature made by Allah in which He has created men there is no altering of Allah’s creation; that is the right religion'” (Muslim Book 33, Number 6423).

    “Yahya related to me from Malik that he heard that Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz gave a decision that when a [J]ew or [C]hristian was killed, his blood-money was half the blood-money of a free muslim.

    “Malik said, ‘What is done in our community, is that a muslim is not killed for a kafir unless the muslim kills him by deceit. Then he is killed for it.’

    […]

    “Malik said, ‘The blood-monies of the Jew, Christian, and Magian in their injuries, is according to the injury of the muslims in their blood-moneys. The head wound is a twentieth of his full blood-money. The wound that opens the head is a third of his blood-money. The belly-wound is a third of his blood-money. All their injuries are according to this calculation'” (Muwatta Book 43, Number 43.15.8b).

    “O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust” (Qur’an 5:51).

    “Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak” (Qur’an 4:76).

    “Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures” (Qur’an 98:6).

    “Muhammad – the messenger of GOD – and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves” (Qur’an 48:29).

  • Thomas Kurian

    Koran MohaMad full of hate. Below is what MohaMad did:

    MohaMad beheaded 800 jews with his own hands in one day
    MohaMad raped Sofia the same day he had beheaded her father, brother and husband
    MohaMad had sex with his OWN son’s wife
    MohaMad stoned to death the mother of a one year old child while she was still breast feeding him

    MohaMad had 30+ wives for sex

    MohaMad kept sex slaves, most notable was Maria the Coptic Christian

    MohaMad looted Jewish caravans

    MohaMad RAPED 6 year old Aiysha when he was 56 years old

    MohaMad allowed his follwers to lie – Called Taqqiya. Even today muslims can lie to non-muslims with Allah’s sanction

    MohaMad promises 72 virgins in heaven for sex if a muslim kills non-muslims in jihad

    And Islam was founded by this man – a pedophile, rapist and killer

  • Thomas Kurian

    Quran and MohaMad full of hate. Below is what MohaMad did:

    MohaMad beheaded 800 jews with his own hands in one day
    MohaMad raped Sofia the same day he had beheaded her father, brother and husband
    MohaMad had sex with his OWN son’s wife
    MohaMad stoned to death the mother of a one year old child while she was still breast feeding him
    MohaMad had 30+ wives for sex
    MohaMad kept sex slaves, most notable was Maria the Coptic Christian
    MohaMad looted Jewish caravans
    MohaMad RAPED 6 year old Aiysha when he was 56 years old
    MohaMad allowed his follwers to lie – Called Taqqiya. Even today muslims can lie to non-muslims with Allah’s sanction
    MohaMad promises 72 virgins in heaven for sex if a muslim kills non-muslims in jihad
    And Islam was founded by this man – a pedophile, rapist and killer

  • Warren Raymond

    Right, you mean like his ‘business partner’, the merchant Kinana whom Muhammad tortured to death to get his gold? You mean the business about how he raped Kinana’s young wife the same night he murdered her whole tribe and sold the women and children into sex slavery?

    http://alisina.org/blog/2011/01/02/muhammad-raped-safiyah/

  • FrancisKing

    It is a basic misunderstanding within the Qur’an. Psalms 2:7 – I shall announce what God has declared. He said, today I have become your father and you have become my son. What Judaism means by ‘Son of God’, and what the Qur’an means by it are two different things.

  • FrancisKing

    On many levels – no.

    To pick a few of your examples…

    You have misquoted 8:12.

    [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.”

    So, it’s when God said something to the angels. Are you God? Are you an angel? No?? Then it is not, as you portray, a commandment to you or me or anyone else of this world.

    You have also misquoted 9:5. Verse 9:5, The Verse Of The Sword is much larger than that, and is followed by 9:6, The Verse Of The Ploughshare. Please read all of the verses in this section of the Qur’an. Many concepts flow over several verses – just like the Bible, in fact.

    More than that is a job for the local imam, who, unlike me, is paid to sort out your confusion.

  • John Smith

    No… I said if he wanted Islamophobes to do the thinking for me instead.

    Work on those critical reading skills…
    LOL

  • Latin2

    The Quran says that teaches that Jews and Christians are cursed and names them specifically, Quran 9:30

    Pickthall And
    the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The
    Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths.
    They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself)
    fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

    Yusuf Ali The
    Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the
    son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but
    imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on
    them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

    and here is a MISTAKE in the Quran THE Jews don’t worship Ezra as the son of Allah. So that not only proves that the Quran teaches hate towards Christians and Jews, but also is in error because it says that Jews believe God has a son, which they don’t.

  • Latin2

    So you’re saying the Quran is written by an “Islamophobe”?

    LOL

  • http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/ BobSmith101

    ‘Islamic Jew-Hatred’: It’s NOT in the Quran?

    What a lie.

    What would cause Muslims from Morocco to the Philippines to hate Jews? It’s not because these Muslims ever even met a Jew.

    Ever see a Jew in Saudi Arabia?

    Google or YouTube Islamic Jew hatred.

    Typical Muslim brain dead denial of the reality of Islam. The “perfect religion” – yea!

  • YoshiNakamura

    1) CAIR hands out copies of the Koran on the correct assumption that the vast majority of people, such as you, will not take the trouble to read it. Instead, they will put it on their coffee table to show guests how tolerant and sophisticated they are. I got the CAIR Koran, by way. It is the translation by Mohammad Asad. Beautiful edition with translation,
    transliteration, Arabic original and commentary. Asad does his best to soften the translation, and that is why his translation is not used by Moslems.
    2) Not only have I read the Koran from cover to cover, I
    have six translations on my desk which I refer to often in order to compare translations. One of the Koran websites I use often in order to copy and paste is the one by the University of Southern California under the auspices of the Muslim Student Association. This site offers three
    parallel English translations, all approved the the Muslim Student Association. Here is the website address:
    https://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/

    The Ahadeeth, of course, do not take precedence over the Koran, but they are also considered sacred text. Here are just a couple:
    1. Mohammed said, “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, “None has the right to be worshiped but Allah,

    2. Muhammad said: “Fight in the name of Allah and in
    the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war,… ”

    3. Allah’s Apostle said, “You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will
    (betray them) saying, ‘0 ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ ” This sacred call to genocide is part of the Hamas Charter.

    3) You are the one who has no idea about “context” in the Koran. I challenge you to show readers the “context” which changes the obvious meaning of Allah’s words.

    “John Smith”, can’t you do anything except call names, such as “Islamophobe”? How about actually dealing with Islamic doctrines for a change?

  • John Smith

    Is that why CAIR and other organizations hand out free Qurans? Again, nice try in smearing me, but no catch.

    Second, you never read the Quran. Don’t bother lying. I know you went on some webstie and copy/pasted those quotes. You have no idea about the context, whether historical or linguistic, behind your cherry-picked quotes. Again, nice try.

    So please, scurry back and check what your Islamophobic websites tell you do next. Is this the part where you throw around red herrings about Muhammad’s life? Or maybe try to argue that the ahadeeth take importance over the Quran? Or maybe Dar al Harb nonsense? 20,000 terror attacks since 9/11 right? 270 million victims of Jihad over the past 1400 years?

    You seem to think I will take you seriously. You think anyone will take you seriously. We all know your pseudo-knowledge is based off Google, and you have no actual knowledge about Islam. I have seen hundreds of Islamophobes like you, who picked up a computer and became Islamic ‘experts’ overnight.

    So I will say it again. Nice try.

  • YoshiNakamura

    Since you claim to have read the Koran, then, perhaps, these verses will be familiar to you:

    – The unbelievers among the people of the book and the pagans shall burn forever
    in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. 98:6

    – Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve. 8:55

    – The unbelievers are your open enemy. 4:101

    – Muhammad is God’s Apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. 48:29

    – Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme. 8:40

    – Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. 2:193

    – The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the Devil. Fight, then, against the friends of Satan. 4:76

    – We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. 3:151

    – I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads; strike off the very tips of their fingers. 8:12

    – When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them.9:5

    – Fight against those to whom the Scriptures were given… until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. 9:29

    – Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. 9:73, 66:9

    – Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. 9:123

    Surely, John Smith, you remember these verses from tyour reading of the Koran, don’t hou? Don’t you? There are many, many more verses like these where these came from. When a person actually reads the Koran and runs across dozens of verses commanding hatred and war against non-Moslems, it becomes clear pretty quickly what Islam is all about. And, if the Koran is not enough to convince you, then there are the sacred sayings of Muhammad (hadiths).

    You apparently do not want people to read the Koran for themselves, and you don’t want them to go to websites which sort the Koran verses according to topic. So, what do you recommend to people who would like to learn about Islam?

  • badtooth
  • badtooth

    http://www.youtube.com/user/NAKcollection
    i don’t see anything about relations with the jews of other kuffar. which video should i watch?
    so did not allah destroy the people of Ad for not bowing down to him? and sodom and gamora were destroyed by your god for being gay? and the “green one” kills the boy for his “overweening wickedness”, so that allah would replace him with another child. the lesson i see is your god is brutal. and if you don’t worship him he might kill you.
    Narrated ‘Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”

  • badtooth

    really. i would love to hear the hadith or ayah that says non-muslims have equal rights. or when muhammad had jews as equal business partners. he was known not to abide by his own rules sometimes. [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
    http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=narrowest&translator=2&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
    Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. (Book #026, Hadith #5389)

  • fazalk

    Like I stated before, discussing something as complex as Islam is beyond the scope of this chat room and if I reply to any of the hate, I would only be cherry picking myself. There are many legitimate sources of knowledge and education available in the US/world regarding “What the Quran says.” I can guarantee you won’t find either knowledge or education on a hate site. There is a reason they are called hate sites. May you find the truth.

  • John Smith

    You know, telling people to read the Quran for themselves (Which I have already done) and somehow expecting them to become enlightened at how evil Islam is like you are is silly.

    The fact of the matter is you can’t debunk any of the info in this article so all you can resort to is red herrings like “Think for yourself” or “Visit this website”. Typical tactic to draw away attention and focus it on another issue.

    Nice try.

  • YoshiNakamura

    Of course, the Koran commands hatred. I even quoted you one of the hatred verses. There are many others besides that one. Anyone can read the Koran and see it for himself. Anyone who wants to find out what Islam teaches should read the Koran. It is all there in black and white.

  • YoshiNakamura

    Don’t be silly. Do your own thinking. Read the Koran for yourself.

  • fazalk

    The Quran does not command hatred. It commands justice and forgiveness. It commands mercy. It commands social justice. It commands hard work. I don’t think you need me to answer these questions. Instead why don’t you go to the Bayyinah Foundation website and get some true knowledge about Islam if you are really interested in what Islam teaches. It’s up to you. It always has been.

  • fazalk

    The Prophet (PBUH) took Jews as friends, business partners, contractual partners, recognizing equal rights, with the freedom to follow the ways of their own communities. Does that sound like Jew hatred to you? I love how you pick out verses and stories without the background. This is the tool of a poor debater. To explain these stories and the lesson learned from them requires study and is not a matter for chat rooms. I suggest you look up the Bayyinah foundation (based out of Texas) and watch YouTube videos from Nouman Ali Khan. If you want real knowledge, that would be a good start. Otherwise live with your hatred as a chat room troll.

  • John Smith

    So you want Islamophobes to do the thinking for me instead?
    Wow, that makes sense.

  • YoshiNakamura

    Have you ever actually read the Koran? It doesn’t sound like it. YHou say that nowhere does the Koran say to hate “a people”. What do you mean by “a people”? If you are talking about a particular ethnic group, you could be right, but that is not the issue here. The Koran commands hatred and war against non-Moslems who refuse to accept Islam (and that includes accepting Muhammad as prophet). Verse 60.4, for example, cites Abraham as a good example when he said to his people: “We repudiate you and between us and you there has arisen enmity and hate forever.” The Koran is a book of hatred toward all non-Moslems who refuse to accept Islam and Muhammad.

  • badtooth

    you’re kidding, right. an atheist can’t go to “jannah”. to die in the state of shirk is the one unforgivable ‘sin’. does the koran say not to take the jew or rthe christian as a friend? 5:51. how about the hadith that says if you meet the jew or the christian on the road, push them to the narrow side.

    so do you not hate the mistake of the homosexual? the ‘giants’ of ad, for not bowing down to allah? so allah in his wisdom sent al-khidr to kill a boy. lol, your god is a hateful god, a killer.

  • fazalk

    I’m sorry you feel that way, but the Quran is a book of lessons. Nowhere does it say to hate a people. It simply gives examples of the mistakes people made throughout history and the consequences. It also gives examples of the good people did throughout history and their examples. Then it compares the two and logically convinces you that good is better than bad. It’s one of the simple tools of the book. It doesn’t matter is the bad was done by a Jew, Sabian, Muslim, Christian, or an atheist. Likewise, it doesn’t matter who did the acts of goodness either. Get your facts straight and avoid websites like the one you recommended to avoid verse cherry picking and generalized ignorance. That’s where the hate truly resides.

  • YoshiNakamura

    Don’t let that Moslem do your thinking for you. Google search “Koran Anti-Semitism” and you will see for yourself.

  • YoshiNakamura

    This article is a lie. Anyone who wants to see that Jew-hatred is in the Koran just has to read the Koran for himself/herself. To make it easier, just Google search “Koran anti-Semitism” and you will be taken to a number of websites which list all of the anti-Semitic verses in the Koran. There is no secret about this, and the Moslem who wrote the article will be shown for the liar that he is. His article is another act of “jihad against talking about jihad.”

  • John Smith

    Thank you for this great article. I will be using it often.

  • Pingback: Pamela Geller – ‘Islamic Jew-Hatred’: It’s NOT in the Quran | Discover The Truth

  • Pingback: ‘Islamic Jew-Hatred’: It’s NOT in the Qur’an | The Muslim Times

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