Blogalogue

Blogalogue


Evangelical Land is Changing (Hanna Rosin)

posted by nsymmonds

Hi everyone. I’ve spoken to most of you but I’m thrilled to have a chance for this slightly more organized discussion. Something is changing out there in evangelical land – politically, sociologically, culturally. Jerry Falwell’s death sort of made it official. The old stereotypes no longer fit and we have to come up with some new ones. In gay circles they called this moment: “we’re here, we’re queer, get over it.” Christianity Today put it this way in a 2005 editorial: “We’re no longer overlooked, persecuted, discriminated against, and misquoted in the mainstream media. So we’ve been mainstreamed, now what?”
Now what? There are evangelicals on this virtual panel, and I’ll let them say what it means for them. I’ll answer from the outside.


I’m going to start with an easy one for me: Hollywood. Much has been written about the post-Passion era, in which studio executives try to woo the same audience that turned out to see the Mel Gibson movie, and the Christians flirt back (“Didn’t you know,” a producer told me a couple of years ago, “Christian is the new gay.”) When I saw the network fall lineup last year, this new relationship had me worried. The networks were putting out different permutations of Touched by an Angel, that treacly series about the angel rescue squad that ran for decades. There was a series starring Christian rocker Amy Grant and The Book of Daniel, about a pastor who talks to a live Jesus.
But both these were quickly canceled. Evan Almighty and The Nativity Story flopped. As Michael documents in his book, Christian forays into Hollywood have often been unsuccessful, as one Christian businessman after another barrels into Hollywood vowing to “change the culture” and then runs into David Geffen.
As anyone who’s ever worked there knows, Hollywood lives by a brutal bottom line; when no one watches, the studios will ditch the God talk. This is not to say Christians have had no lasting influence. I just finished a long story for the Atlantic Monthly’s December issue about how the studio that made the “Golden Compass,” the first in Philip Pullman’s subversive series of children’s novels, washed out the anti-Christian elements. And Paris Hilton does feel compelled to be photographed with her Bible in hand. But we are unlikely to be overwhelmed by cheesy Sunday school dramas. An audience can smell a poll-tested plot line. The evangelical characters that survive tend to be authentic and surprising, like the boys on Friday Night Lights.
Politics is a different story. The Bush administration has served as a training ground for the rising generation of young evangelical elites, who work at every level of the administration. At the same time, the number of congressmen calling themselves “evangelical” has soared in the last thirty years. It’s pretty clear that evangelicals have become just another part of the Washington establishment, accustomed to political power.
I disagree with evangelicals on most political issues, so it’s hard for me to welcome this development. But what makes me uneasy is not so much the issues as the effect on the political culture. Political disagreements are great – healthy for a democracy, fun for a journalist. But not when those disagreements are loaded with the weight of sin and evil. This generation grew up thinking of Republicans and Christians as twins, and in my experience it’s hard for them to separate between those two. Supply side economics is a staple of the Republican party platform, not something dictated by the Bible. Ditto on tort reform, and even gay rights. I would bet that some part of Bush’s brain confuses his commitment to the war with his commitment to God.
I don’t say this about evangelicals alone. There are also elements of this in Hillary Clinton, who has talked freely about her enemies as people who do “evil.” It’s an appropriate term for, say, terrorists who blow up buildings. But not for a Senate Majority Leader of the opposing party.



Advertisement
Comments read comments(34)
post a comment
carmen amerson

posted October 16, 2007 at 12:33 pm


I just pray that we(the world) could just at least get on the same page and get it together. I believe its time to change our hearts and minds, by the spirit of the Lord. All truths lead to God anyway so why can’t we just pray for the one who sets things in order to guide us. It wont hurt to try this for a while, we can try everything else. Look around, nation to nation. True believers know what time it is and yet the others dont have a clue, people are walking by sight and not trusting God because of so much negativity in tv, media,big time television programers,producers or some of the people on certain newsstations are mentioning the Holy Bible to instigate people into empty arguements, just for ratings. They take the Bible and make light of it. It makes me sick to my heart. I pray that the whole world just try God. I dare them.



report abuse
 

Donny

posted October 16, 2007 at 7:34 pm


“We stay, we pray, we’re not going away.”
What’s actually “bad” about Evabgelicals? What hyocritical behavior? That does nothing to detract from the truth within the Gospel. Why the need to forgive your brother endlessly? Better than to encourage, endorse and condone it. Jesus saw humans coming within His Church before the Apostles got it going big time. I see the authentic Gospel in Evangelical life.
Homosexuals are going to have to deal with that and so are you. Historically, not one thing has changed in the dialog between Christians and their wordly neighbors. Nero sounded just like Elton John, and we needn’t get into other striking similarities.
The “Evangelical” movement started in the Gospels. What drew me into the Evangelical fold is that it is the genuine article. It is what Jesus preached. When you read the New Testament you do not see anything but decency in Christian culture and community and a turn for the better to follow. I’m sorry that abortion, same-gender sex acts, and socialism (modern-day slavery of the poor masses) are dealt with in absolute forms, but I left my selfish-hedonistic, lascivious and licentious life for the the Good News in the New Testament, and I have been the better for it.
We Christians cannot be silent about the Gospel.
Thank God the first constitutional right given to people was about government not being able to touch religion.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted October 16, 2007 at 8:52 pm


It is part of this country that people can worship as they choose. However there is separation of church and state for a reason. This is NOT and never has been a “Christian” nation…for very good reason. No STATE religion as in some countries. Religion has NO business in government. The founding fathers made sure of that. The argument that they were “Christians” does not mean that this country should be, and it is apparent that they didn’t write it into our “revolutionary” papers.
Equality in this nation is for everyone, not just heterosexuals. The right for a woman to make decisions regarding her body are also no ones business except the womans and her doctors. NO government or religious group has the right to tell a woman what to do when it concerns her reproductive rights.



report abuse
 

Donny

posted October 16, 2007 at 10:41 pm


What we need is seperation of sex acts and state. The government has no business teaching anything except biological and physiological facts about sexuality in our “public” tax funded schools. If sexual deviance and unfettered promiscuity is to be taught in a school setting, then the LGBTers and players can open thier own private schools. And we also need to let a fertilized ovum grow and let it decide if it (which is either a male or female at the moment of conception) is to aborted or not. Every single woman and her doctor deciding to kill her unborn child was once an unborn child. The absurdity of a grown human being able to kill an unborn child is a place to find the definition of evil. Violence and killing should not be supported “by the state.” Interesting that the majority of anti-death penalty adherants are usually pro-abortion.
The consistency and rationality of the Evangelical community is another example of why I was drawn to the truthful way in which the faith is lived out.
We should progress far past the treasonous and so-called enlightened men of the eighteenth century, that used violence and war to overthrow the English government that had authority over them. Why should we hail these secularists as anything other than murderous self-centered egotists that spawned a country that wiped out any indigenous peoples that stood in the way of conquest by the United states of America? Certainly any Christian would agree with the fact that America was not founded by Christians by the preceding and resulting violenc that founded what is the United States.
What if Christians were to have had influence in the creation of the country known now as the USA?
Read the Gospels and find out. The Evangelical mission is one of pure peace and non-violence.
Obviously “the influential founders” didn’t. Read the history of Thomas Jefferson and see for yourself. It seems quite clear that “enlightened” deists and atheists make for deadly neighbors.
Just ask the surviving American Indians.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted October 16, 2007 at 11:09 pm


“What if Christians were to have had influence in the creation of the country known now as the USA?”
That is a very scary thought! Thankfully we don’t have Christians running this country…but not for lack of trying.
We’d have a country with a “state religion” such as England,which got a “legal” religion with the changes in their kings and queens..the Catholic or Christian’ fighting for power. Or how about the Middle East, where there is no freedom of religion. People get killed for not being the right sect of Muslim. Give me a break, Christians or any other religion has no business in govenment.
Nor does any religion have the right to tell a woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy …and a group of cells is not a child.
Also, no govenment or religion has the right to not grant equal rights to everyone.
Be glad that Thomas Jefferson and the other founders WERE the ones who started this land. Were they perfect? No. Did they make wrong decisions? Of course (and with Christian “W” even more have been made) Did we treat the native Americans fairly? No (but they were treated by heathens and the Christians tried to “convert”them). If some folks had their way, homosexual Americans wouldn’t be treated fairly either.
Children should be taught by their parents about the facts of live etc. but it is a fact that most parents don’t even broach the subject. Depending on the age of the children, the difference in family make up shouldn’t be avoided in school. Children are very accepting of other children who have 2 moms or 2 dads or just a mom or just a dad. It is the love in a family that is important.



report abuse
 

An American

posted October 17, 2007 at 8:07 am


What is actually bad about Bible-believing Evangelicals? (The ones that agree with Jesus and the Apostles that is.)
Let’s hear it.



report abuse
 

Karen

posted October 17, 2007 at 1:36 pm


First I’d have to have an idea what YOU will accept as being an evangelical. Usually such a tip off as ‘The ones that agree with Jesus and the Apostles’ means that any examples that behave badly are going to be dismissed as ‘not Real(tm) Evangelicals’.
Is that what is going to happen, or is it possible, in your view, to BE a ‘real’ Evangelical and do something wrong? If not, there’s little point in bringing up examples.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted October 17, 2007 at 1:48 pm


“What is actually bad about Bible-believeing Evangelicals?” Nothing, as long as they don’t push it on the me or folks running the government.
Do you really think that this society is any different then 60 or 70 100 plus years ago? Things now are just out in the open more due to rapid communication etc. There have always been abortions,even in the time of Jesus and before, just like there were homosexuals then, there were men continuing to father children that weren’t wanted (because sex is human nature and women had to do their “wifely duty” until some died in childbirth), there were loveless marriages that stayed together because women were “property” and could be mistreated if the guy desired, there were mistreated children, because beating them was considered “discipline”, and I could go on and on. Not much has changed, it is just now there are fortunately LEGAL and safe abortions(for women who need one, and no, they are not always used as birth control…rape is a good reason, no money or food for yet another child,and other reasons that abortion is necessary). Obviously birth control is preferable to termination, but that doesn’t always work. Unwanted children suffer, a group of cells that aren’t viable don’t. It’s the old “when does life start” question, which we don’t agree on. Just a question, would you want a pregnancy caused by rape to be taken to term? That is just one of many reasons why EARLY termination takes place. The morning after pill is an excellent way to prevent the possibility for a termination, but there are actually hospitals and pharmacists who feel it is their duty to NOT give a woman that pill…which is unethical, but has been done.
Human nature hasn’t changed, just the surroundings we live in and the technology we have come up with. Homosexuals are entitled to all the legal rights of heterosexuals, as it truly is no one’s business what occurs between 2 consentin adults in private.



report abuse
 

chevy956

posted October 17, 2007 at 5:39 pm


What is actually bad about Bible-believing evangelicals?
1.) They have been running the Federal Government for the last term and a half and have blown it. We will be a couple of decades recovering from the economic, social and global political ramifications of this Administration.
2.) Their attempts to marginalize gays by legislation.
3.) The fact that they have co-opted the term “Christian” as if it applies to them and no one else outside of their 18th century novelty cult.



report abuse
 

Todd

posted October 17, 2007 at 6:25 pm


Not really sure you detailed why you disagree with Evangelical Christians. It would appear to be because Christians seem to support Republicans more than Democrats. Not sure that is entirely true, but Democrats have walked away from their roots.
I would ask you please show me all those Bible believing evangelicals running the federal government into the ground. Anyone can say they are a Christian, but actions speak louder than words. Good people can still make bad decisions, and most of Washington insiders make lots of bad decisions, Christian and non-Christian.
The only folks that marginalize gays are gays. Their militant attitude toward special priviliges drives folks away. Show me non-Christians who’ve done anything for the gay community and I’ll show you folks trying to buy a vote.
The only people using the word Christian like it is a four letter word are folks like you.



report abuse
 

Tom

posted October 17, 2007 at 7:14 pm


Hanna Rosen: “I disagree with evangelicals on most political issues, so it’s hard for me to welcome this development.” A “reporter” for Pravda on the Potomac disagrees with evangelicals? Has there ever been an employee of the Washington Post who didn’t hate evangelicals and the Republican party? What was the quote from that leftist kook Michael Weiskopf in the Washington Post about evangelicals years ago?



report abuse
 

mike

posted October 17, 2007 at 10:16 pm


Typical liberal intolerance. Fundamental secularists are just as intolerant as the zealots of any other creed.



report abuse
 

A minority now

posted October 18, 2007 at 9:36 am


“Human nature hasn’t changed, just the surroundings we live in and the technology we have come up with. Homosexuals are entitled to all the legal rights of heterosexuals, as it truly is no one’s business what occurs between 2 consentin adults in private.
Posted by: pagansister | October 17, 2007 1:48 PM”
Yes, the “human nature” that for thousands and thousands of years the Biblical record has condemned. And: “God is the same yesterday, today and forever.”
And on same-gender sexuality and “privacy?” Oh that that were the case. Instead we have “Gay Pride” forced on us in every shpere of life. Only a wish that same-gender sex acts were private. Instead everyone must submit to the totalitarianism of sexual deviant behavior being proclaimed and promoted from kindergarten to university roof tops.
Marriage is a man and a woman. Just because some individual is born with a screwed up libido does not mean that the entire populace needs to support them. “Otherwise” we HAVE TO marry people to the pets.
The insanity of promoting sexual perversion and lascivious licentiousness should end at adultery. The western Secular Humanists (Progressives), have taken us far too far down the road of chaos ruling our world.
Now in Portalnd Maine (spread no doubt from Boston MA) a middle school is promoting and encouraging and teaching 11-year old children to have sex. And always with pederasts leading the kinds. This school is passing out birth control PILLS and as usual the parents of these little children . . . have NO RIGHTS to stop them.
No Christian should should have ANYTHING to do with what Liberals and Progressives have inflicted on society. There is nothing compatible between Christian truth nand Progressive and Liberal lies. The role models of the Left are miscreants at best and degenerates in reality. “The Left” IS Pure intolerance and licentious totalitarianism.
“Study” and find out for yourself.
Donny



report abuse
 

Travis

posted October 18, 2007 at 9:41 am


“Political disagreements are great – healthy for a democracy, fun for a journalist. But not when those disagreements are loaded with the weight of sin and evil.”
Well Ms. Rosin, it is unfortunate that you believe the Bible is here to pave the road to the life of “Rainbows and Sunshine and anything Goes.” It is also unfortunate that you do not see value in something if it isn’t ‘fun.’ The fact that you say, ‘it’s not fun,’ is hard to comprehend because it seems so childish coming from an adult. Who cares if it’s not fun? Whats does ‘fun’ have to do with anything?
“This generation grew up thinking of Republicans and Christians as twins, and in my experience it’s hard for them to separate between those two.”
No, this generation grew up purposefully making Republicans and Christians twins. One would think you opened the Bible, and systematically formed your beliefs and policies by contradicting everything you read. Why is that my fault? The task of homogenizing people and opinions is nothing new, and nothing that will ever change. It is no different that making Criminals and people of a certain race twins. What a shock that the same logical blunders are relived in full from those who do not know the definition of introspection. It is much easier to shut off your brain, and spit out the prefabbed rhetoric, comfortably resting in ignorance, rather than take the time to account for all the nuances and dichotomies of people and ideas.
“Supply side economics is a staple of the Republican party platform, not something dictated by the Bible.”
I don’t get it. Are you forgetting that its ‘not fun’ to conform to the Bible? You say that you think of Republicans and Christians as one even when you recognize perceive difference in philosophy, why?
“Ditto on tort reform, and even gay rights.”
No. Its only ‘ditto’ when you think of and grant ‘rights’ as a robotic bodily function.
“I don’t say this about evangelicals alone. There are also elements of this in Hillary Clinton, who has talked freely about her enemies as people who do “evil.” It’s an appropriate term for, say, terrorists who blow up buildings. But not for a Senate Majority Leader of the opposing party.”
Yes, I see your balanced, righteous indignation in the excuse me paragraph seemingly tacked on the end of this anti-(you know) reassuring your journalistic conscious that you have successfully presented an unbiased work.



report abuse
 

Saadaya

posted October 18, 2007 at 9:49 am


I actually thought The Nativity Story was a beautiful movie and enjoyed it. I don’t have a problem with Christian themed movies, as long as it’s not propaganda or anti-gay. I’m frankly scared of Christians who want to push their agenda on those of us who don’t share their beliefs, superstitions and doctrines. It’s demeaning and demoralizing at times to non Christians. Even the very notion of ‘salvation by faith’ is, personally, an insult to my intelligence, it confuses the boundaries between religion and colonialism, it’s quite transparent to me that the people who invented these ideas had a political, colonial agenda.



report abuse
 

Domesthenes

posted October 18, 2007 at 12:55 pm


“I disagree with evangelicals on most political issues, so it’s hard for me to welcome this development. But what makes me uneasy is not so much the issues as the effect on the political culture. Political disagreements are great – healthy for a democracy, fun for a journalist. But not when those disagreements are loaded with the weight of sin and evil.”
Really? As opposed to the pseudo-Christian leftists who have been successful in implementing their “social engineering” agenda disguised as religious belief, e.g., equating the “welfare industrial complex” w/ “Christian charity”, Neo-marxist Catholic priests abusing “sanctuary laws” by harboring and providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants in their churches, “Progressive” protestant leaders enabling/promoting gay marriage & gay clergy, and etc. I guess the employment the “weight of sin and evil” is only tolerable when the other party agrees with your left-wing politics?



report abuse
 

A minority now

posted October 18, 2007 at 12:57 pm


>>>Posted by Saadaya: I actually thought The Nativity Story was a beautiful movie and enjoyed it. I don’t have a problem with Christian themed movies, as long as it’s not propaganda or anti-gay.>>I’m frankly scared of Christians who want to push their agenda on those of us who don’t share their beliefs, superstitions and doctrines.>>It’s demeaning and demoralizing at times to non Christians. Even the very notion of ‘salvation by faith’ is, personally, an insult to my intelligence, it confuses the boundaries between religion and colonialism, it’s quite transparent to me that the people who invented these ideas had a political, colonial agenda.



report abuse
 

Travis

posted October 18, 2007 at 3:03 pm


“I actually thought The Nativity Story was a beautiful movie and enjoyed it.”
Well, I’m glad you enjoyed it, but apparently you missed the message of the movie. You came to church, but fell asleep during the message.
“I don’t have a problem with Christian themed movies, as long as it’s not propaganda or anti-gay.”
Christian “themed” movies thats not propaganda or anti-gay? that would be funny if it were not so profoundly removed from logic. Sorry to inform you, but the Christian message is anti-gay, and anti whatever deviancy a perverted mind can come up with. Its not a guide to hippie-love-topia. Sure, you don’t mind Christian movies, just as long as it fits you. Strange how you’ve choose to champion the gay whilst arbitrarily choosing to “discriminate” against all the purveyors and practitioners of bestiality– that is until they form a support group claiming ‘alternate lifestyle’ status, link their “struggle” to, the group du jour of social injustice, blacks, and gain their “rights” from those who want to dole them out like cheap swag, just as long as you’re not Christian.
“I’m frankly scared of Christians who want to push their agenda on those of us who don’t share their beliefs, superstitions and doctrines.”
No, you only want to push your agenda, beliefs, superstitions, et al. on everyone.
“Even the very notion of ‘salvation by faith’ is, personally, an insult to my intelligence, it confuses the boundaries between religion and colonialism, it’s quite transparent to me that the people who invented these ideas had a political, colonial agenda.”
What is transparent to me is the desperation you have to convince yourself God does not exist. That is why you enjoy just looking at the film, but not understanding it.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted October 18, 2007 at 7:43 pm


Donny:
No one is promoting, or encouraging children in Portland, ME. to get birth control pills! That was a really inaccurate statement. Sex education is important and should start before middle school. That is different than encourageing children to have sex! With PERMISSION from parents, girls can go to the school clinic in Portland. Would you rather have a pregnant 11 or 12 or 13 year old? It is not a pleasant thought that a young girl gets pregnant, but with the pill she wouldn’t have to get an abortion…which you feel is wrong. To you, which is worse, a pregnant 11 year old or an abortion? That would be the choice, or a means to not get pregnant to begin with.
No god has changed human nature since we crawled out of the ocean and evolved into up-right beings. There have been homosexual and heterosexual beings since the beginning of time and that will never change. To some, people who are different then you,a heterosexual I assume, are not equal to you. I disagree. Everyone is entitled to equality under the laws of this land. No one needs any religion’s approval. However many Christians are accepting of all people, as they believe their god is a loving and understanding god who loves all her children. BTW, their libido is no more screwed up than anyone elses.
All religions have their liberals, and their conservatives and those in the middle. All are entitled to their opinions, even those who are not of any faith. No religion should be pushed on anyone and certainly not be in the government of this country, state or national. The current administration is proof of what happens when a god fearing conservative would- be leader is in charge. This country is a mess, other countries don’t trust us anymore and we have a war that was so not a legitimate one. (if war is ever legitimate). Our men and women are getting wounded and killed for absolutely no reason!
Progressives and liberals even have rights and have had to live with what some Christians have inflicted on them. Apparently some feel that never the twain shall meet. We are fortunate in this country that there isn’t a dominate religion…though that makes some folks uncomfortable.



report abuse
 

Laura78

posted October 18, 2007 at 9:54 pm


I don’t think handing out birth control encourages anyone to have sex.
As soon as I started dating my mum wanted to put me on the pill and I said, no thanks, no need for now.



report abuse
 

Prima scriptura

posted October 19, 2007 at 10:42 am


No religion should be pushed on anyone and certainly not be in the government of this country, state or national.
Posted by: pagansister | October 18, 2007 7:43 PM
The pagan cult religions based on sexual intercourse and child sacrifice (Democrat PAC?) should not be pushed onto the children of Americans. Secularists are worshipping the same Molech as did their historic counterparts. If Progressives (Secularists) want to pervert children, they should do this to their own children in the privacy of their own homes and leave other people’s children alone.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted October 19, 2007 at 1:21 pm


What nonsense have you been reading?



report abuse
 

charliejohn48

posted October 20, 2007 at 10:53 am


The secular crowd is always spouting the “separation of church and state” to people of faith for decades. Yet we have a religion being taught in our schools called Evolution. I capitalize evolution because to evolutionist that is their religion. Is it their belief (religion) that we evolved from dirt and God help anyone who opposes their faith. Separation of church and state, give me a break. Practice what you preach evolutionist.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted October 20, 2007 at 7:44 pm


Evolution doesn’t necessarily mean that a god couldn’t have “guided” the evolving of little creatures from the ocean to land and eventually into up-right human beings, as well as other creatures great and small. Religion and science on the origin of humans etc. can coincide. There are many religious scientists. To me that a god just created males and females as they are is now is a very far fetched. Also that all the other creature were plopped on earth as they are is very far fetched. IF you want to call a guiding hand from ocean to human, I suppose you could call it “religion”. But in discussing evolution in public schools, no god should be mentioned….that is intrusion of religion. I’m not a believer in the guiding god hand thing(or god) but that is my choice.
As to separation of church and state? No religion needed in state or federal government or school (go to religious schools for that).



report abuse
 

charliejohn48

posted October 21, 2007 at 12:25 am


A belief that life was created from dirt (inorganic matter) is far fetched to me. See, two can play the game about the philosophies of life. I’m still amaze that people think that evolution is considered science when there is no fact to back up the claim. There is no separation of church and state. The only separation I see is your religion of evolution that is taught in our schools and the truth.
PS- I do agree with you that no religion is needed in state or federal school. Maybe you can start the first private evolution school in the country.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted October 21, 2007 at 4:25 pm


charliejohn48:
Fossels etc. are, IMO considered science. No one planted the fossels millions of years ago so we could learn how life evolved, they are the dead evolved ones. Ashes to ashes etc. We all evolved from the ocean, salt water in our veins. My ashes will return there some day.
If I wasn’t a retired teacher, I’d consider your private school suggestion!



report abuse
 

Jonathan

posted October 21, 2007 at 7:22 pm


Hi Hanna,
Thanks for the “Christian is the new gay” meme. It’s very funny and very true. I’ve met Evangelicals here in Loudoun (PHC’s home) who sponsor Christian teen support groups because the Christians are bullied at school – just like the queer kids. Unfortunately, the chances of forming a gay/straight/Christian alliance are pretty slim as you point out:

I’ve never heard any of them [PHC students], for example, speak about homosexuality in any way I consider reasonable.

The Evangelicals have had their say in politics, beginning with the rise of the Moral Majority during the Reagan administration and culminating in the “Jesus Camp” millennialist vision of the Bush administration. It will be interesting to see what kind of a shelf life the Evangelicals can maintain, and if the Evangelical 25 from now looks anything like the Evangelical of today. We’ll have to wait and see. In the meantime, let’s try to carry on a conversation between the “new gay” and the “old gay”. If we can restore reasonableness – on both sides – that will go a long way.



report abuse
 

charliejohn48

posted October 21, 2007 at 10:59 pm


Fossils are a scientific fact, I agree. Carbon dating is far from a proven science.You can’t prove the age of anything by any dating method, none. It is all speculated. But yet students are being taught that it is a fact and that is a lie. Let me ask you a question. If there is 70 to 80 million year gab between dinosaurs and man, why is it that hundreds of artifacts from thousand of years ago are being found with drawings of anatomically correct dinosaurs on them? Not just one kind but numerous different kinds of extinct (?) dinosaurs. Man could not have known what dinosaurs looked like if the 70-80 million year gap existed between the species. And no, these artifacts are not from pre-historic man (?) but modern man (God created). One more thing, the fossil record does not disprove the creation model. To us it fits nicely. So let’s take evolution out of the science classes and assign it into the philosophy class were it belongs.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted October 22, 2007 at 9:27 pm


I’ll stick with the fossils and other found things. I simply can’t go with a god creating men and women as they are now. Personally I have no problem with life starting in the ocean.
If indeed carbon dating is far from a proven science, how is it that the Shroud of Turan (spelling?) has supposedly been “proven” to be old enough to be the shroud over Christ? Do you think it is the one Christ was wrapped in? Or a well planned hoax?



report abuse
 

Alan Lunn

posted October 23, 2007 at 7:17 am


All the Christian right pet peeves have been trotted out here: evolution, gays, abortion, sex-ed. Evolution doth not a creator exclude. In a secular society, if we are going to exclude gays from the public process of democracy, why not exclude everybody, since all of us are sinners? Abortion is as old as the hills and as naggingly tenacious: people will do it whether legal or not. Prohibition only drove booze into the criminal underground. And sex-ed? Again, where do you want kids to learn about sex? You may be judicious in teaching your kids about it, but what about your next-door neighbor?
The church, as I said elsewhere, needs a makeover. But why are we always so slow about it? I guess we’re cautious….even conservative. Staying far behind the times may seem logical. But don’t be surprised if our enterprise becomes marginalized.



report abuse
 

daniel mccormack

posted November 1, 2007 at 2:35 pm


bottom line love is their answer



report abuse
 

wafranklin

posted November 11, 2007 at 7:20 pm


Power for religious people and religious leaders: And pray tell who has not read history back to the Pharohs? Religion has exerted more dire impacts on the path of human development over the past 10,000 years than it deserved – for most of that time religious leaders were and are leaches, parasites who neither spin or sow; and far too often were (and are) aristocrats interested not in perpetuation of some god but their own lineage and worldly goods and priveleges.
Having grown up in a small southern town afflicted with at least two awakenings of which its people were aware, don’t tell me that religion is just now getting political power – in my youth there was no other than religious political power. What bunk to contend this is all new. We simply rid ourselves of religion on and off for a couple of centuries – something which I regretfully see declining as the zealots blindly arise up as if sewn as dragon’s teeth – a non-seeing resolute army intent on inflicting their particular Bronze Age myths on the body politic. This is religious war for political power. The religiously inclined want to use tax money to inflict their liturgies as public policies, something that some contend the American Revolution was fought for.
If in fact religion were as superior a human solution as it contends, it would be capable of residing with agnostics and athiests and diests in the public sector, claiming what belongs to it and not worrying that the rights of the secular somehow violate the pretenses of the religious and hyper-religous. What noxious nonsense.



report abuse
 

jim

posted February 25, 2010 at 2:36 pm


http://www.wowhotsale.com
The website wholesale for many kinds of fashion shoes, like the nike,jordan,prada,adidas, also including the jeans,shirts,bags,hat and the decorations. All the products are free shipping, and the the price is competitive, and also can accept paypal payment.,after the payment, can ship within short time
http://www.wowhotsale.com
…………./??/’.??..??’
………./’/…/…./…./…/¨?\
……..(‘(…?…?…. ?~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·?
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…
thank you for your visit



report abuse
 

Pingback: We’re All Evangelicals Now | The Revealer

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.



Previous Posts

More blogs to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Blogalogue. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Inspiration Report Happy Reading!!!

posted 9:34:57am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

How Do We Tell A True Act of God From A False One?
Dear Michael: Thank you again for this exchange, Michael; I am grateful that you took the time to teach me with such patience and tolerance. In all honesty, I can't follow your subtle discussion of the relationship between natural laws and Divine Providence. The fault is mine. I think you are sayi

posted 3:46:50pm Nov. 17, 2008 | read full post »

Do You Wonder About the Source of Meaning?
Dear Heather, I really enjoy the way you conduct a path through our disagreements. You are tough, but open to differences. As we have agreed from the first, to achieve real disagreement is a long-term task; it takes a lot of brandies sipped slowly together (so to speak) to get past the misunderstan

posted 10:51:30am Nov. 14, 2008 | read full post »

What About Other Religions?
Dear Michael: Thank you so much for your candid and probing response; it is most illuminating. Before addressing your final question, I am going to risk characterizing your presentation of religious faith. Some of our readers, if not you yourself, may find this presumptuous; if so, I accept their c

posted 4:21:02pm Nov. 13, 2008 | read full post »

Faith Is Not Just Belief
Dear Heather: There are many aspects of popular Catholic faith that have sometimes shocked me and turned me away. Yet I well remember visiting the great Catholic shrine at Czestechowa, in Poland, where once almost a million people turned out for Pope John Paul II when he first pierced the Iron Curta

posted 3:48:33pm Nov. 12, 2008 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.