Beyond Blue

Beyond Blue

Peter V. Rabins, M.D., M.P.H.: How Do You Move Beyond Blue?

I often focus on women’s issues with regard to depression–hormonal triggers, people-pleasing, guilt, motherhood, and so forth—because, statistically speaking, more women than men suffer from depression. But, as you can read from the message boards, Beyond Blue has many male readers.
So today I focus on men’s depression, and in particular, on older men’s mood disorders.
For today’s feature of my “How Do You Move Beyond Blue?” series, I’m excerpting an interview published in the Fall 2007 issue of the “Johns Hopkins’s Depression and Anxiety Bulletin” with Peter V. Rabins, M.D., M.P.H., who is Co-Director of the Division of Geriatric and Neuropsychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, as well as a professor of psychiatry with a joint appointment in the Department of Medicine and the Department of Mental Health at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Dr. Rabins has published extensively in such journals as the “American Journal of Psychiatry” and the “Journal of the American Geriatrics Society.” He also serves on the editorial board of numerous journals, such as the “Journal of Mental Health and Aging” and the “International Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry.”
1) How common is depression in older men? Why is it difficult to diagnose?
Depression affects 6 million American men and 12 million American women each year. But these numbers don’t tell the story of older men in particular.
Depression is actually less common in older men than in middle-aged men. Estimates range from 2 to 5 percent of men over age 65 in a given year, though it’s unclear how reliable those estimates are because older men are more likely to deny sadness as a symptom, making diagnosis more complicated.


We know that, overall, about one-third of older people suffering from depression do not experience sadness as a symptom, but that percentage rises to 50 percent among elderly men. The lack of sadness makes it more challenging for primary care physicians to make the diagnosis of depression.
Sometimes called “depression without sadness,” this form of clinical depression has severe anxiety, physical discomfort, sleep disorders, and diminished energy and self-confidence as some of its primary symptoms.
Men are particularly prone to this type of depression as they age. Men—more commonly than women—are likely to feel angry, irritable, and frustrated rather than sad when depressed.
Men also tend to cope with depression differently than women. Instead of withdrawing from the world, men may act recklessly or develop a compulsive interest in word or a new hobby. Instead of crying, men may engage in violent behavior.
Men also are more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol when in the midst of a depression, perhaps to find relief from the pain of depressive feelings. This can make it difficult to determine whether a problem is specifically alcohol-or drug-related or whether it is primarily depression.
Changes in sleep habits, such as insomnia or feelings of exhaustion, and appetite changes are often recognized as signs of depression in both men and women, but it’s less well known that headaches; joint, back, or muscle pain; dizziness; chest pain; and digestive problems also may be symptoms. Men report these physical symptoms more often than women, although they are often unaware the symptoms are linked to depression. These physical symptoms are not imagined: Chemical imbalances that cause depression also affect other part of the body.
2) Do older men have a unique set of triggers or risk factors for depression?
It’s true today (but may change in the future) that some of the triggers for depression and risk factors for suicide—retirement or loss of a job, lack of social supports, and the availability of firearms—are more common in men than in women.
Regarding job stress and retirement, speaking purely from my clinical experience, I think men are more likely to primarily define themselves in light of their work role. Women who work seem less likely to do that. They continue to define themselves in terms of their roles as a family member or as part of a social network, making retirement or job loss less of a stressor for them. When men lose their work role, in their eyes it is the main contribution that they have been making. The adjustment can be very difficult.
This view is not grounded in science; it is simply my observation. And it may change with the next generation as the roles of men and women in the workforce and at home continue to evolve.
3) What role does age play in male depression?
Too many people believe that depression is an inevitable part of aging, so let me say this very directly: Almost every study finds either lower rates of depression in old age compared to middle age or equivalent rates of depression. Moreover, the majority of studies find less clinical depression in older people.
Depression does not become more common as we move from midlife to late life, and it is certainly not a normal part of aging that people should resign themselves to. Indeed, a majority of older men never experience depression.
That said, it is true that depression is still underdiagnosed and undertreated in the elderly. Older people with depression tend to suffer from other medical illnesses, complicating treatment. And part of the reason depression is underdiagnosed in the elderly is that their depressive symptoms are often attributed to those co-existing medical illnesses, instead of depression.
Where age does become a major risk factor in male depression is suicide. There is a common misconception that suicide rates are highest among the young, but it is older white males who suffer the highest rate.
When elderly men make suicide attempts, they are highly likely to be lethal. They are more likely, for example, to use guns and less likely to use pills (which, overall, tend to be less lethal and are a more common choice for women attempting suicide).
Attempted suicide rates and methods of suicide vary by culture. One example is that, in Singapore, where suicide rates are highest among elderly women, the most common method of suicide is jumping off the balcony of a high-rise building—obviously, a highly lethal method that raises the rate of completed suicides.
4) What is your advice for men who think they might be experiencing late-life depression?
If you’re experiencing some of the mental and physical symptoms described previously, tell your physician! Don’t be timid about mentioning depression.
Your primary care physician can treat you or refer you to a mental health care professional. Psychologists, social workers, and licensed counselors can all provide therapy. Psychiatrists can prescribe antidepressants. A number of well-conducted studies have demonstrated that combining counseling with antidepressant medications is the best treatment for depression.
It is worth mentioning that years of psychoanalysis are no longer the standard form of therapy. Short-term therapies, such as cognitive-behavioral therapy, take only weeks or months. Cognitive-behavioral therapy teaches you to recognize and change thought patterns that lead to depressed feelings.
The challenge in treating older people, whether male or female, is the fact that physical illness (e.g., stroke, heart disease, and cancer) becomes more common as we age. The challenges of treating a person who is medically ill AND depressed are significant at any age. It requires close cooperation between the doctors providing the patient’s medical care and the mental health care provider.
5) Erectile dysfunction (ED) can be an issue for men suffering from depression, both as a physical symptom of depression and as a side effect of antidepressant medications. What should men know about ED as it relates to depression?
One of the general symptoms of depression is a loss of interest in activities that the individual usually enjoyed, and so many men—and women—experience a diminution in sex drive and a diminution in the pleasurable aspects of all kinds of intimacy, not just sexual intimacy. ED is just one manifestation of that.
The other aspect of ED as it relates to depression is that almost all the antidepressants, particularly the commonly-used selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), can cause ED. Moreover, it’s not just ED or loss of “sexual performance” that’s the problem; the drugs can actually impair sex drive itself—in both men AND women.
“Sexual dysfunction” is a good umbrella term. It includes diminished libido, inability to orgasm, decreased sensation in the genitals, erectile dysfunction (in men), and vaginal dryness (in women). It is better to discuss sexual dysfunction as it relates to depression, rather than just ED. And the advice about what a person suffering from depression and sexual dysfunction can do applies to both men and women.
First and foremost, raise the issue with your physician. The first thing your doctor will do is a thoroughly medical workup to rule out any possible physical problems. Hypertension, diabetes, urological problems, and neurological problems can all cause sexual dysfunction.
If depression is indeed the source of the problem, the right antidepressant might help renew your interest in sex. If you’re already on antidepressant medication and you and your doctor believe the antidepressant is the likely cause, several possible remedies exist.
First, you and your doctor may consider switching to an antidepressant with a low rate of sexual side effects, such as Wellbutrin (bupropion). This must be done carefully to minimize the risk of a relapse of depression.
As an alternative, your doctor may suggest adding Wellbutrin to your current antidepressant regimen. Research indicates that small doses of Wellbutrin (75-150 mg daily) in combination with other antidepressants can be helpful in alleviating the sexual side effects of those antidepressants.
Another remedy is to add the medication Viagra (sildenafil), which is potentially effective for combating antidepressant-induced sexual dysfunction in both men and women.
There is no good evidence that adding testosterone replacement therapy (in men or women) is beneficial, even though this is something that is commonly done.
A slight decrease in your antidepressant does may be helpful. If you want to try this approach, however, it’s important to develop a plan with your doctor to decrease the dose slowly and in small increments to avoid a recurrence of depressive symptoms.
Sometimes a “drug holiday” is an effective remedy. This involves taking a short respite from your medication. Evidence shows that periodic two-day breaks from antidepressant therapy can lower the rate of sexual side effects during the “drug holiday,” without increasing the risk of a recurrence of depressive symptoms. For example, in one study, taking medication Sunday through Thursday and skipping it Friday and Saturday allowed participants to enjoy improved sexual functioning 50 percent of the time on weekends, with no overall worsening of mood.
6) What can be done to prevent late-life male depression?
What seems to work is training physicians, mental health care professionals, and the public about the very early signs of depression. Early recognition of depressive symptoms appears to lower suicide rates or at least rates of suicidal thoughts, and may prevent depression from becoming chronic.
Doctors call this secondary prevention. Primary prevention is preventing the disease itself; secondary prevention is preventing a recurrence or exacerbation of the disease. An example of secondary prevention is treating high blood pressure so that a person doesn’t suffer a stroke. Identifying and treating the very early signs of depression would be akin to screening for and treating high blood pressure.
Doctors need to be better educated about recognizing and treating depression in later life. Over 70 percent of older suicide victims visit their primary care physician within the month of their death. Many of these patients have a depressive disorder that goes undetected during these visits.
Fortunately, to change this dismal statistic, research and educational efforts to improve physicians’ abilities to detect and treat depression in older adults are under way.
7) Have you noticed a change in social attitude toward male depression in recent years?
I do think, particularly compared to 20 to 30 years ago, that there is a greater appreciation for the fact that depression can overtake people in the way that many diseases do. I also think that this is a view that’s probably less common among older people than younger people, and particularly among older men. I hope that this will change over time.
But I think the fact that suicide rates are still high in elderly males, particularly white males, says something about the culture we live in and how men perceive loss of function loss of relationships, etc. Men are less about to reach out others for help in adapting to life’s upheavals.
Suicide is usually an indication that a person feels hopeless and doesn’t think anything can be done. Depression at any age—in 10-year-olds just as in 80-year-olds—can cause that. But most people, even when they’re hopeless, fortunately don’t turn to suicide.
The fact that suicide rates are so high in elderly, white men probably means that this group of people still sees depression as a personal failure and something that they can’t turn around or talk about with their doctor or loved ones. Hopefully, we can change those attitudes and dispel the myths associated with depression in older people (and older men in particular) through public education such as this interview.
Improved recognition, acknowledgement, and treatment of depression in later life can truly make those years more enjoyable and fulfilling, not just for the depressed older man, but for his family, friends, and caregivers as well.

  • Larry Parker

    My maternal grandparents are an interesting juxtaposition.
    I know my maternal grandfather suffered from situational depression at the end of his life (though it was somewhat mixed up, literally, his last couple of years with non-Alzheimer’s dementia). He was a robust, vigorous man laid low by medical incompetence — he broke his leg slipping in an ice storm, and malpractice (IMHO) over the next couple of years led to a hopeless case of gangrene that forced its amputation. He defined himself for life as what he could DO rather than what he could BE, so this was a terrible blow for him. (He rarely used his artificial leg, saying it “wasn’t the same” …)
    My maternal grandmother, of course, as most BB readers know, had bipolar disorder like me. (Thanks for the inheritance, Grandma, LOL.) Her symptoms, though, somewhat (somewhat) alleviated as she aged. Which IMHO, verifies in my mind what Dr. Rabins says about the elderly being slightly less vulnerable to depression of the biochemical sort — though they’re certainly highly vulnerable to life events that can cause situational depression, as my grandfather’s story also makes clear.

  • Jim G

    I am guessing that the statistics for twice as much depression in women might be because there are more men who tough it out rather than go to a pdoc or tdoc to get treatment / find a solution.
    And I also guess all elderly folks should be on a light dose of anti depressant, because the body atrophies when we age, and the brain is part of the body.

  • Wisdum

    Re – Jim G | October 26, 2007 12:31 PM
    And I also guess all elderly folks should be on a light dose of anti depressant, because the body atrophies when we age, and the brain is part of the body.
    ** That’s what my wife has been telling me, for years now ! (but I refuse to take any of that crap!)… You ALL haven’t joined forces with her … Have you ?
    LUV 2 ALL

  • Jim G

    Wisdum – Nope, no conspiracy, LOL.
    The one I take does so much good for me, I guess I can’t help but think all older folks should try it to see if it makes them feel younger, since it makes me feel younger at age 45.
    I’m an absolute layman though as you know.
    If I have a cup of coffee, I won’t sleep all night. Even if the coffee was consumed in the morning. Which makes me wonder about all those coffee and tobacco addicts as well. : ) (If they might be better off with a light dose of an anti depressant but just don’t realize it.)
    It can’t hurt to try a medication, you can always quit if it isn’t for you.

  • Deb M

    RE:Jim G. What med do you take?

  • Wisdum

    Re – Jim G | October 26, 2007 11:55 PM
    I can’t help but think all older folks should try it to see if it makes them feel younger, since it makes me feel younger at age 45.
    ** I never grew up (Peter Pan Syndrome)…(66 and still a kid…one of the dam “Strong Willed Child” that Dobson wrote about. Somebody need to write “The Strong Willed Child…Growed Up” The problem is thereaew Way to many “mothers” out there who think they can straighten me out so I can become an adolt !
    I’m an absolute layman though as you know.
    ** I’ve been trying to be a laynan, but my wife/mommy cut me off (if you catch my drift !)
    If I have a cup of coffee, I won’t sleep all night. Even if the coffee was consumed in the morning.
    ** It has been my experience that it is not the caffine, but the combination of that and sugar, and maybe even the milk/creamers…you will get an energy rush, and will not be able to sleep (isn’t that the objective ? hmmm”
    Which makes me wonder about all those coffee and tobacco addicts as well. : )
    ** I recently discovered that nicotine and niacin are the same thing (taking niacin to combat a cholesterol problem resulting from too many years of ingesting trans-fat, the real problem) Heavy smokers, very often do not have cholesterol problems … but they die of lung cancer or other dibilitating/terminal diseases (living is a terminal dis-ease) If we ate the leaves it would be healthful, but burning the leaves chemically alters the health benefits, yet only increases the need and desire for niacin in your system. (Doctors are never gonnareccommend nicacin as a cure for a smoking habit, it is not good economics … follow the money trail)
    It can’t hurt to try a medication, you can always quit if it isn’t for you.
    ** Yep ! I refuse to take any of those drugs (except asperin, a derivative from the willow tree) My wife and friends say to me “If you don’t take your meds, you could die !” . . and I say “Let me get this right. If I take all those meds…I won’t die ?” (duh!)… Funny thing, my doctor smiled and walked aWay with my check saying “We are ALL going to die !”
    “Don’t eat anything man-made” (Jack La Lane -98)
    LUV 2 ALL

  • Lynne

    I know I worry about my Dad. He’s 82, had cancer, had two heart attacks, and now really bad spinal arthritis. His life must SUCK!!! That and he has to live with my mother who could bring Mr. Rogers down. I’m amazed that he sounds as good as he does when I call him. He’s always been a “McGyver” sort of thinker and it frustrates him that he can’t do what he used to. My mother complains that “All he does is lay down in that f—-g bed!”She is terrified of living alone so she is being a bit stupid( in my opinion) I think at this point whatever makes him comfortable is the right thing to do. The doctors he’s seeing have not had much besides pain meds to offer him. If anyone has a license to be depressed it’s him. I try to ask him about stuff he can relate to like how do I do this house repair? Calk the windows, put a new handle on the screen door, or use the reciprocating saw. He is still a wealth of information and a good teacher.

  • Wisdum

    RE -Lynne | October 27, 2007 9:47 AM
    Hi Lynne,
    you are running down the right track !
    “Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional”
    My friend’s mother recently died (over 100) and her Life really sucked at this point. We did a whole lot of praying for her, but I did not pray for her to live on. Her daughter prayed, after her father died many years ago “God, please don’t take my mother from me” and it looked like her prayers came true. “Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it!”
    We ALL have a Life to live here, and the only thing that is relevant to any of us is Time. We are ALL born with a certain amount, none of which is the same. The only thing any of us can do to gain more Time is to buy others Time, or call on God. Unfortunately, God is the only One who knows how much Time you got … don’t waste it! We are ALL here to make a mark (that we were here) How big that mark will be, is totally up to you. Some people live only seconds, some not even born, some over 100! … “Today is the first day, of the “rest”, of your Life” … (or the Last Day)
    LUV 2 U /LUV 2 ALL

  • Frank

    Morning to all,
    This is interesting. My brother ended his life 2 1/2 years ago. I have told myself ever since that what I’m dealing with is an extended period of mourning and that I, the oldest brother, am a rock and not subject to depression. That’s what part of me says. Another part of me knows better but keeps his mouth shut and head down. Because the ‘rock’ is a bit of a bully. And there’s another part of me that is genuinely in touch with the other me’s and comes to the blog for a dose of sanity when the other guys are in denial or hiding. Haha! A small dose of honesty in an otherwise dark corner of my life shines a very bright light.
    I told Therese, yesterday, that I was finally getting around to writing some friends to request some affirmations and positive statements about myself – to build a self-esteem file. Well, one of the requests has already paid dividends. One of my buddies in Oklahoma City replied with a list of “13” different positive qualities he sees in me. I am smiling even now as I think about them. So, if you have a tendency to procrastinate, take a few minutes to do yourself a favor and let your friends help you gain a new perspective on who you are in their eyes. Here’s #9 on Randy’s list of affirmations about me. It made me feel powerful and strong and reliable and dependable – not bad. “You would be a great friend to be around if the #%@& hit the fan, and a guy need some back up muscle.” Don’t put it off, ask a few friends to come to your rescue. God gave us friends for just such a purpose.

  • Cully

    Re: Frank | October 27, 2007 10:52 AM – Here’s #9 on Randy’s list of affirmations about me. It made me feel powerful and strong and reliable and dependable – not bad. “You would be a great friend to be around if the #%@& hit the fan, and a guy need some back up muscle.”
    wow Frank, this is a great thing and it is two fold… it also signifies that Randy knows that it the toro poopoo did hit the fan, You would stick around to help.
    Lucky Randy to have you as his friend! :-)

  • Jim G

    For Deb M in answer to her question:
    Wellbtutrin XL, just one pill per day.
    It works amazingly well for me. It works on dopamine and norapenephrine instead of serotonin which is what Celexa works on (as an SSRI) — I used to take Celexa. But some people with bipolar can get hypomanic or manic – and I think Larry said he is allergic so I guess some are allergic.
    I thought I was “permanently hypomanic” to a light degree from the Wellbutrin XL (having bipolar,) but the last week that hasn’t been the case. Today I just felt quite normal – I can make my brain work just as fast as anyone, but it isn’t overworking. A very good place to be. I was Dx’d Bipolar I 8 years ago. But I got better. I think that is unusual for bipolar disorder, to get better, but I’m not positive.
    I wanted to try Cymbalta as it works on dopamine and serotonin, to see if that would be even better than Wellbutrin, but my pdoc got a little angry and didn’t want me to. I asked him “if it aint broke don’t fix it?” And he said yes. So I guess I’m good to go with Wellbutrin XL.
    I tried Lithium as I was a tad hypomanic, but it made me sleepy and ruined all the benefits I was getting from the Wellbutrin (increased energy, wit, creativity, and productivity,) so I’ll keep a bottle on hand. As they say it takes 3 weeks for Lithium to kick in. But for me it is more like 2 or 3 days. I don’t know why they lie about that. I think they don’t want people to take our psychiatric drugs recreationally so they spread false rumours about how long it takes for them to kick in.
    The strange thing is I don’t know if I am “my old self” or “a new person.” Does anyone else wonder about that when they take medication that works very well for them? Because I don’t know if I was ever as energetic, witty, creative, or productive. At the summer camp I worked at during college summers, I remember the first summer anyways my nickname was “gel” as I was sort of laid back and the opposite perhaps of witty. So that is why I mean I wasn’t depressed then. But I was a different person than I am now I think. Well I’m the same person but just speeded up a bit I guess. I like being speeded up personally.
    I thought of a good natural mood stabilizer. Short yourself sleep. For some this might backfire. But I think if I give myself 6 hours intentionally, every night, instead of 7 or 8, it will slow me down a bit and make me just a little sleepy, which will be a natural antidote to being too high, and will of course have no side effects. This is what I mean by adapting to hypomania. I will also try meditation, and I’m already doing excercise. And I don’t drink a drop of caffeine.

  • Larry Parker

    That’s the good (and bad) thing about antidepressants — they all work differently on different people. I am allergic to Wellbutrin, but I hear many people (not just you) swear by it.
    If I had unipolar depression, Zoloft would make me happy as a clam — for me, it was a very animating drug and I could literally feel it lift me from the depths. But of course, since I’m bipolar, not unipolar, it lifted me too far — and then, since due to medical incompetence/malpractice I wasn’t being prescribed a mood stabilizer at the time, let me go …
    As far as bipolar, most doctors still swear by lithium as the gold standard. But of course, since it’s a natural salt (“Li” on the periodic table) and not able to be patented, there’s not much profit for Big Pharma in it, is there? :-(
    PS — As far as the “old me”/”new me” debate — to me it’s a synthesis. If the medicine and everything else works, it can bring me back (sometimes) to the “old me” moodwise, but I’m still a “new me” regardless for the Perils of Pauline I have been through …

  • Wisdum

    I need to say a bit more on the “Strong Willed Child, Revisited” Syndrome…Somebody needs to write that book …(NOW!) I spoke to Dobson over a year ago, and he chooses to ignore it,because of his being a “Born Again” and all, and feels we should ALL deal with it through prayer, and or, let God do it!… ( and God will too … God willing !)
    There are all kinds of causes for bi-polar dis-ease, and all the cures are not curing the problem, only making you think you don’t have a problem … like “beta blockers” do not cure high blood pressure, only make you think you don’t have a problem or cause of it !
    Some of what we are dealing with here, is a battle of two beings (or more)inhabiting the same body. First you have this very practical being, religious,hard working, con-scientious, family responsible creature, in absolute conflict with this “child like/childish” creature, who is completely irrespobsible, wants to play all the time, listen to music, dance in the rain, jump up and down in mud puddles, and really needs no more from Life, than to Love and be Loved” …and Yeshuah is no help with “Come to me, like a child” (you think He really was the “Word” of God ? hmmmm)
    Right off the top, we perceive God as this stern, disciplinarian, full of wrath and vengeance, who will smack the Hell out of you if you get too out of hand ! … It is interesting that the Hare Krishna movement perceives God as this 12 year old boy and girl on a swing together, p[laying all the Time, except for an ocassional dragon and jack*** (well, maybe the jack*** is a bit more that occasional, if you catch my drift !)… I ain’t never gonna let that jack*** defeat me !
    LUV 2 ALL

  • Cully

    re: Larry Parker | October 28, 2007 2:05 AM – As far as the “old me”/”new me” debate — to me it’s a synthesis. If the medicine and everything else works, it can bring me back (sometimes) to the “old me” moodwise, but I’m still a “new me” regardless for the Perils of Pauline I have been through …
    man, Larry… all I want to say is that we are all “new me(s)” everyday (ha! every hour) and I think the *new you* is doing good. I mean, think of all the people out there that do not have anything (that has been identified yet) wrong with them that can (and do) make us feel like we are having a great day… LOL
    Blessings to you Larry…
    Cully :-)

  • Larry Parker

    I appreciate the good thoughts :-)

  • Ervly

    As to the comments, I understand about the blues, I have several chronic illness’s that are taking me from youth to old age at my prime in life and it stinks. If you can’t say what you want to say for yourself and not quote someone else, I think you would be alot happier in Life.
    We all have some sort of something! So, get over it and Yes, let go and let GOD deal with them individually!

  • spiritualone

    Who is wisdum and who is Jack***?

  • Amy

    My boyfriend is 46 yrs. old and always seems to be a happy go lucky guy. We are about to have our 2 child. He has 3 from a previous marriage. I have 4. We have been together for almost 3 yrs. an I love him alot. Us women get depressed an I know men do to. But the question I have for you is, I do everything for this man. I stay home with the children and do all the cooking and cleaning. Never have time for myself! Don’t even get to shower by myself always have a baby jumping in. But why does he always compare me to his ex-wife and always accuse me of cheating on him? I am nothing like the thing he was married to and would never cheat on him. Hell I don’t have time to anyway. So what is the problem?

  • Lynne

    Hey, Wisdum, thankyou for the insight. It is always appreciated! Sometimes I scratch my head trying to figure out how to be helpful to my Dad. I know my Mom is half the problem. She is not only depressed but has the emotional maturity of an 8 year old! No matter what suggestion I make to her she always has a reason why she can’t do that.(including learning how to use the computer) I could just scream !!! Whoops! Perhaps I’ve inherited that too.

  • Miss. Bridget

    I believe men who are depressed who do not know the LORD is rejecting to fill the voidness with the love of the LORD so as a result they get gender idenity crises and start thinking they should have been a woman instead of a man then they try the cross dressing then degrading women because they cannot be a woman because they do not fit in the woman category so they continue to degrade women. Then they think if they get a sex change then they will fit in also they think GOD made a mistake in creating them into a woman. Then they find out they do not have funding to get changed into a woman so now they are stuck as being half woman and half man and start getting more depressed because they are incomplete.
    When these men go through changes like that they then feel they should had left well enough alone. But it does not stop those sick men try to continue being something that they are not and become suicidal. When they should have just given their lives to the LORD because the devil will warp these men’s minds into thinking they are a mistake and feel guilty for being a man and having thoughts of wanting to be a woman.
    I don’t feel sorry for those men I believe these men should just come to the LORD and allow GOD to make them over again the way these men were suppose to be.
    I will not make any excuse for any man who thinks he is suppose to be a woman because he feels those kinds of feelings.
    Feelings are temporary and they fade away. Then what do you have left after you mess you body up with an incomplete anatomy which started out fine when GOD made you to be a man but you messed it up with trying to get an operation to be a woman now you are afraid to take your clothes off because someone might discover you have a weird looking contraption supposing to be a man or is it a woman. That is where the confusion comes in.
    So no I do not feel sorry for a man who is depressed especially after he messed up everything GOD created man to be.
    So it is better to go to GOD if you have to go on a skate board say dear JESUS CHRIST
    I know that I am a messed up sinner and do not know what gender I am suppose to be because I feel like I am suppose to be a woman but I am a man and I need seriouse help about this please help me I am desperately disturbed about this can YOU fix this so I do not feel like this any more and please come into my heart I need a heart transformation or something please I am desperate for a change I no longer want to feel like this any more and please help me make up my mind of what I really am suppose to be so I do not do anything crazy aman.
    And GOD will feel that voidness you have trying to fulfill by changing your anatomy and drinking alcohol and taking narcotics trying to numb the pain that you feel because of the mockery you was exposed to after exposing your messed up body.
    GOD will give you peace of mind and you will not make fun of women or talk condescending to the women that GOD naturally made and you will begin to accept yourself for what GOD made you to be not trying to go over what made you to be by saying GOD made a mistake by changing your body into a woman body and you weren’t born that way in the begining.
    So accept who GOD made you to be and get to know JESUS CHRIST for yourself and you will avoid disrespecting yourself and women.

  • Wisdum

    Re -spiritualone | October 29, 2007 12:01 PM
    Who is wisdum and who is Jack***?
    ** I’m just sojourner along this Road Called Love, addng my two cents (or is that sense?) to a world filled with pain and problems. I do have a page on Beliefnet Community under Wisdum, which tells a bit more about me and what I do and I’m about. Also available for any private or public communication through there. As far as Jack***, that is a demon refered to in the Hare Krishna tradition (I believe there were five major demons that Krishna battled, you can check that all out at I give you a hint, Jesus rode one of them into Jerusalem, before He was crucified (if you catch my drift !)
    LUV 2 U / LUV 2 ALL

  • Joseph Morris

    Please lets not be cushy, Major Colleges are teaching that it is healthy to have a euthenasia affect. Harvord and Yale are teaching this to our future doctors. In my own Experience, I was in Bill Willis Oklahoma Mental Health care, and at 26, One of their Highly Trained Doctors, asked me the usual, Do you have suicidal thaughts, I proclaimed Lately, Yes, I have. He closed the door and Told me it would probably be the best if I went on with that plan, that suicide is the option for many people suffering from anxiety and depression… So Naturally I went home, thaught it over, and Decided I din’t need any physician, To tell me the best options. So I completely got off my meds. During that Doctor’s reign in Sallisaw Oklahoma. One of the women under his care, took her life. My condition worsened after that. Lots of bitterness I would say. Eventually under the influence of my family and friends, I reluctantly went back to the Bill Willis, I guess its not right to rely on other “humans for our own well being, I was a nurse, and now under their unstable methods of medication, I have debilitated to Being On DISABILITY. Much to the dismay of Doctors seeing a 30 year old male being on disability for any amount of time they are even more critical to any cry for help, I mean what right have I to live after disability? –

  • Arlene Myers

    Replying to Joseph Morris of 10-29-07.
    I have had major depression since I was 30 and I am now 70. When depressed, your mind is not working properly. Seek help elsewhere. Doesn’t sound like you had a good doctor. I go to church regularly and have met very nice friends. Some of my thoughts are not out of line, most of my friends are older than I. I have a medically disabled daughter and a husband of 82. I am their caregiver. I have made myself a few diversions that I like doing which do not let me dwell on my problems. I have a one day job which is a no brainer, I made no decisions and label beads, gifts, etc. I found out 1 1/2 yrs ago, my thyroid was low which made me unable to make decisions or have energy. Perhaps a good blood test is in order. Try to read or play a video game, or something you enjoy that will take your thoughts away from your body. Could you volunteer a day a week to help someone else? Don’t give up. Keep taking your medicine. If one doesn’t work or you need too much of the one you are on, try another. If I wasn’t on antidepressants, I do not believe I would be here. They are necessary because my brain isn’t perfect! I need help on other things as I have gotten older BUT I still enjoy the sunset, a baby animal, my cats. You have the right to live, you have a purpose and only God knows what he has in store for you. Reach out to people as you want them to treat you. If they don’t react that way, Jesus said knock the dust off your sandles and keep on going. I have been so miserable at night, even thought I knew I would feel better after a good night’s sleep. But it was rough. Hang in there. Hugs.

  • M

    My father was 67 when he ended his own life. It was completely unexpected. He was depressed over a break up and financial wonders but I didn’t think he would end his own life ever!!!! The ratio on suicide among men vs women is 4 to 1.
    Why do men of any age act more on the suicide thoughts than women? I think the focus on boys and men in general has fallen. Society focuses more on the needs of girls and women. This must change as both men and women are equally important in the roles of family and society in general.

  • djthere

    i think mis.bridget is a wanta be woman himself,and god has nothing to do with anything of what the subject is about….

  • Kelly

    I have not had internet access for a few months until lately & this morning I have been going through and deleting mail from my mailbox. It was a blessing I opened the article on male depression & read it rather than deleting it. My husband of 6 yrs. has gone from a happy-go-lucky man to a negative, bitter and sometimes hostile person. We relocated to a remote area 5 yrs. ago with the promise of good employment for him, thus giving up his good job. Things didn’t go as promised and we found ourselves in a financial crisis that lead to losing our home and the humiliation of public ridicule from people in the small community we live in. Our children are nearly done with High school so relocating would be difficult and unfair to them we feel. My husband is such a good man, but he has given up. He has every physical symptom mentioned in the article & I am so afraid of what will become of him if he doesn’t turn this around. He won’t work, he won’t try to make things better. As his wife what can I do? Please help.

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