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NYC Bus Ads Will Use 9/11 Photo To Oppose Islamic Center Near Ground Zero

posted by Nicole Neroulias

Update: I’ll be appearing on the Fox & Friends morning show at about 8:15 a.m. Wednesday morning (August 11), along with Stop Islamization of America’s Pamela Geller, to discuss this issue.

The New York Times reports that some New York City buses will soon display ads opposing the construction of Cordoba House/Park51 (see prior posts) near Ground Zero, showing a plane flying toward the flaming World Trade Center and the text “Why There?”

I’m glad I’m leaving New York before I spot one of these buses and scream. Frankly, I find the use of this image for political/advertising purposes far more insensitive and offensive than a city-approved Islamic cultural center — or even a traditional mosque! — going up a few blocks from Ground Zero. (Among all the other houses of worship, fast food joints, clothing stores, hotels, offices, apartments, cocktail lounges and even a strip club crammed into lower Manhattan.)

But, as Mayor Michael Bloomberg and his representatives explain in this and previous stories, just as any religion has the right to build in lower Manhattan, so does any group to use free speech — as long as it doesn’t fall under hate speech? – to oppose said project.

John H. Banks III, a mayoral appointee to the authority’s board, said he supported the decision, despite his personal objection to the advertisement. “The wonderful thing about our country is that people have a right to express themselves, as long as it doesn’t endanger anyone’s life,” Mr. Banks said. “I support it, even though I disagree with it vehemently.”

Hey, maybe one of these 9/11 images will pull up next to one of the buses with the “Leaving Islam?” ads on it. Wouldn’t that be a hoot?

What do you think? Share your thoughts on the Comments section below.

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Apuleius Platonicus

posted August 10, 2010 at 12:17 pm


The Ground Zero Mosque was, supposedly, envisioned as a grand gesture that would engender greater understanding and tolerance of Islam.
What is Arabic for “epic fail”?



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Mike in Maryland

posted August 10, 2010 at 1:35 pm


I think they should allow a mosque near Ground Zero – right after they allow a Jewish Temple and a Catholic Cathedral to open in Mecca! Let’s all show tolerance!



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Alicia

posted August 10, 2010 at 1:47 pm


Mike, we have freedom of religion in this country. In Saudi Arabia, they have none. Why should we do away with our freedom of religion because they don’t have any? That’s the most illogical argument ever, IMO.
Christopher Hitchens, writing about the Cordoba Mosque controversy in SLATE today, refreshingly nuanced as usual, defends the mosque but criticizes the Cordoba Initiative leader, Imam Rauf. Hitchens’ lead paragraph:
“The dispute over the construction of an Islamic center at “Ground Zero” in Lower Manhattan has now sunk to a level of stupidity that really does shame the memory and the victims of that terrible day in September 2001. One might think that a mosque or madrassa was being proposed in the place of the fallen towers themselves or atop the atomized ingredients of what was once a mass grave.
(In point of fact, the best we have been able to do with the actual site, after almost a decade, is to create a huge, noisy, and dirty pit with almost no visible architectural progress. Perhaps resentment at the relative speed of the proposed Cordoba House is a subconscious by-product of embarrassment at this local and national disgrace.)”
Read the whole thing:
http://www.slate.com/id/2263334/
Glad to see Hitchens has decided to live until he dies. He’s a hero.



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Alicia

posted August 10, 2010 at 2:05 pm

Mandy

posted August 10, 2010 at 2:43 pm


This isn’t a religious issue; it’s a political one. Muslims build these things in places they have conquered. To allow them to build one here is more insensitive than any advertisement on any bus opposing it. I say we need MORE posters and advertising showing opposition to their building anything.



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jestrfyl

posted August 10, 2010 at 2:46 pm


I suspect that most of the heated and toxic commentary is coming from people who don’t live in NYC and are not familiar with it. The building is not all that close to “Ground Zero”. Most of what I ahve seen are vitriolic remarks about Islam with no sense of what is being proposed or where it is going. I agree – exploiting the images from that day is sensationalistic and simply adds fog and fear to the discussion – noxious mists that benefit no one.



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Nicole Neroulias

posted August 10, 2010 at 2:55 pm


FYI: I’ve been invited to appear on Fox & Friends tomorrow morning to present my point of view about this issue, in contrast to Pamela Gellar (of Stop the Islamization of America, SOIA). I’ll update this post in a bit with the information.
Keep those comments coming, in the meantime…



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JOSH

posted August 10, 2010 at 3:16 pm


I agree with those who feel uncomfortable about the location of the projected site. At the same time, I do not live in NYC or in New York for that matter so therefor really have no place to say anything about who builds what and where in New York. It’s along the same lines of all of the idiots who are against what we are attempting to do down here in Arizona with our Immigration problems when they don’t live in Arizona and have no idea how bad the Immigration problem is along the border. My prayers and thoughts go out to all of those who lost a loved one in those towers.



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Henrietta22

posted August 10, 2010 at 3:20 pm


Is Fox and Friends televised Nicole? I’d like to watch you present your point of view. Rachel Madow is still waiting to be invited on Fox.



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Alicia

posted August 10, 2010 at 3:51 pm


It is in the interests of radical Islamists, to say nothing of Bin Laden, and of Republican radicals such as Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin, to keep this issue black and white. This is not a simple, black and white issue. Anyone who believes in religious liberty should support the building of Cordoba House. It is not a symbol of conquest but a symbol of assimilation and religious freedom.
For God’s sake, read Hitchens piece (even if he wouldn’t encourage you to read it in the name of God).
Nicole, good luck on “Fox and Friends.” I hope you can post a link to it tomorrow.



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Robert C

posted August 10, 2010 at 4:01 pm


I think that Gov. Paterson’s recent comment and offer is the wisest action he has taken during his troubled administration.



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Kendra

posted August 10, 2010 at 6:41 pm


“I’m glad I’m leaving New York before I spot one of these buses and scream. Frankly, I find the use of this image for political/advertising purposes far more insensitive and offensive than a city-approved Islamic cultural center — or even a traditional mosque! — going up a few blocks from Ground Zero”
YOU DISGUSTING POMPOUS ASS — OBVIOUSLY YOU DID NOT LIVE THROUGH 9-11. IF YOU DID THAT IMAGE WOULD STILL BE EMBLAZONED IN YOUR MIND. A PICTURE IS THERE OF IT AT ALL TIMES WITH OR WITHOUT THE BILLBOARD AND THAT IS THE POINT. A MOSQUE IS DOING NOTHING BUT REPEATING THE EVENT — DAY IN, DAY OUT, WITH EVERY CRANK OF ITS TURNSTYLE. PERHAPS THEY WILL SELL MINI 747S IN ITS MUSLIM GIFT SHOP. RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE INDEED. THIS IS POLITICAL. HOW DARE CALL YOURSELF CHRISTIAN. CHRISTIANITY IS NOT TOLERANT OF MURDER, OR MURDERERS, OR THEIR CAUSE!



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Kendra

posted August 10, 2010 at 6:58 pm


“Anyone who believes in religious liberty should support the building of Cordoba House. It is not a symbol of conquest but a symbol of assimilation and religious freedom.”
Alicia, how do you know what it is a symbol of? Was this the press release from your Mosque? Symbols are subjective. This symbol offends others and myself. What about MY religious freedom? AT the Mosques near my house in Brooklyn, during 9-11, they were celebrating the murders and collateral damage against to the U.S. by chanting “Death to America…” that was what 9-11 symbolized to them. What does it symbolize to you? Again?



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Nicole Neroulias

posted August 10, 2010 at 7:39 pm


On the contrary, Kendra. I did live through 9/11 — in Manhattan, no less.
Personally, I find it offensive that a group would use the image of a mass murder, in the name of religious intolerance, for a public advertisement — especially one promoting further religious intolerance. Also, the use of “Why There?” in the text strikes me as disingenuous, when you consider that the group paying for the ad is against Islamic organizations *anywhere.*
But, as I wrote in my blog post and will clarify further on “Fox & Friends” tomorrow morning (around 8 a.m.), living in a free country means that Park51 and this kind of ad are both free to exist.



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Charles OMalley

posted August 10, 2010 at 9:39 pm


Tolerance goes two ways. If the Islamists want a new mosque, then they can show a little sensitivity to the 9/11 survivors and put it elsewhere.
As an aside, I for one have had it up to here with liberals wagging a finger at me over my stance. If they’re so high and mighty about being sensitive and respecting diversity, then they ought to challenge their Muslim buddies to allow a Cathedral and Synagogue to be built in Mecca.
Until that happens, Muslims and their apologists have absolutely NO ROOM to lecture anyone. Period. End of story.



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Kendra

posted August 10, 2010 at 9:54 pm


Nicole?? ARe you answering for Alicia? How special. Or is she so intolerant she can’t answer for herself, just you, her only friend. “Personally, I find it offensive that a group would use the image of a mass murder, in the name of religious intolerance…”
EXACTLY WHAT WAS THE HIJACKED PLANES FLYING INTO THE TWIN TOWERS IF NOT RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE??
Or, that wasn’t clear in your posh upper East Side or lieral West Side view?
Do you realize who stupid you sound? How contradictory? The planes were not flown by Baptists missing their landing sript for Bible camp. To the MUSLIMS flying the hijacked jets, those victims in the planes, and in the towers, were but nameless infidels — it was JIHAD — A relgious war — by definition — Muslim definition, against the Christian United States/who supports JEWISH Israel.
THe Mosque itself is a symbol of religious intolerance — the ultimate religious intolerance — mass murder. The history of Islam.
But, what offends you ARE PICTURES reminding us of that fact.
How does that work in your little world? Do you close your eyes walking by the fire houses in NYC with the pictures of their fallen heros killed in 9-11? ARe you equally offended? Do you still close your eyes to the pictures of loved ones lost still posted? Or just the image of the jets hitting the twin towers. How dare you expect me, or anyone else to close our eyes to what happened.
With a Muslim “culteral center” in lower Manhattan it is only the first strike. So you should get use to that image. Nicole.



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Kendra

posted August 10, 2010 at 10:31 pm


P.S. Nicole I said near my house in Brooklyn. Sometimes people leave home, or they go back home. I too lived in Manhattan during 9-11.



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Kendra

posted August 10, 2010 at 11:03 pm


p.s.s. Before starting your all who disagree are “intolerant uneducated islamophobe” rant — libs always argue by namecalling — my relative married a Muslim. A Kuwaiti war bride, I will be seeing tonight. Because so many Kuwaitis view us Americans as heros, and many Kuwaitis feel it better to be a half-assed Muslim than a dead Christian (Christians are murdered in Islamic countries for being Christian — religious tolerance in the Middleast)does not mean most Muslims are like her or her family or a few others in the same neighbourhood in Brooklyn. The overwhelming majority are not. Open your eyes.



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peace2all

posted August 11, 2010 at 2:42 am


@Charles O’Malley
The reason that the concept of building a church, etc…. near mecca won’t happen is because of in some countries, like Iran, they are what is known as a ‘theocracy.’ Or, in other words, it is a ‘state run religion’ So, they do not allow other religions in some of these theocracy’s. Many, many muslims have come over to America to get away from the theocratical nations. To practice their religions freely and without persecution in America. As we are all about ‘freedom’…. As long as one is not causing harm to someone.
Just because it doesn’t make you feel good…. My god is right/all other gods are wrong(especially the muslim god) does nothing to make things better.
On the other hand… some could argue that America, by some of the religious right, are trying to stop separation of chuch/state, teach only creationism in our schools( the universe was created by a god 4,000 or so years ago, and try to pass it off as ‘science.’ I could go on, but this is rediculous….!
Again, some are arguing that the ‘christian’ majority is slowly but surely trying to turn America into a ‘theocracy.’ I can’t go a day without hearing or seeing that……”The U.S. is a Christian Nation.” Basically, if you don’t believe in our ‘beliefs’ … which are not equal to facts, by the way…. get out..
That is why, we just can’t over-generalize that ‘all’ muslims, and the religion of Islam is ‘out to get us’, just because they have some extremeists, just like the christians. Why just a few months ago, I believe that there were militia spouting off bible verse after bible verse and getting ready to kill people, i believe up in michigan, ‘in the name of the lord.’
Some look at the Qu’ran and see words of love and beauty, and some look and see hatred and war. Some look at the bible and see peace , love and beauty, and some… see hatred…. they see themselves as god’s warriors.
We have religious freedom…… for a reason…. So, all can practice their faith as they see fit. Obviously, without hurting anyone.
We need as a nation to tone down the religious intolerance, and over generalizations about any other religion other than christianity as THE only truth.
Remember…. Hatred does not bring peace…… Peace brings peace.
Let’s lighten up a bit here. I know a number of muslims that appreciate and love the U.S… and are kind hearted and wonderful people.
Please stop the bigotry….
Respect and Peace to you sir….



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peace2all

posted August 11, 2010 at 2:56 am


@Kendra
I certainly understand your intense feelings of hate against a religion and a group of people that you see as all the same.
They are not….. The ignorant and hate-filled wack jobs that flew the planes into the world trade centers, were radical extremeists.
I covered a lot of it already in my above post to @Charles O’Malley……
But, I will say, that Yes… a minority have declared war on the U.S… and anyone that doesn’t adhere to strict sharia law.
I also know, and I am sure you do as well, that there have been more killings done in the name of christianity than any religion.
Let’s lighten up and extend a hand of peace…. that is what the U.S… is about.
Otherwise, America will end up being as bigoted and wanting to fight in the name of god, because the christian god is the true god, etc..
I don’t want a ‘theocracy’ (state run religion) here in America, especially if we all have to live by the religious rights…. strict interpretation of the bible.
Unfortunately, if that were to happen, our country would surely be just as bad off as other theocracy’s.
Respect and Peace to you….



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Ciro Galli.

posted August 11, 2010 at 3:33 am

Kendra

posted August 11, 2010 at 5:02 am


Peace2All are you for real? Put down the bong and re-read what you posted. Your’re the bigot and you are bigoted against the “christian right” That NYC has been on a terrorist alert for ten years, St. John’s was set on fire at Christmas, American’s have been kidnappe and beheaded, tortured, bomb attempts on vaious airlines, mass shooting at Ft. Hood, a Muslim broacaster upstate beheaded his wife, another now his two young daughters in honor killings, and volunteer medical personnel just murdered in Afghanistan — London has been attacked, Paris burned, and Spain’s railroad bombed by jihadists – Muslims. This is not the work of “some” extremists. Islam is extreme. As you say they can worship without hurting anyone – but they are. Hello? Moderates are the minority. Comparing it to “christian right” shows how little you know of either. And while you have been standing around singing kum bay yah, there haS been a war on. You “understand” less “how” I “feel.” As for “turning the U.S. Into a theocracy” little history lesson: From about 173d there was a revival in the Colonies called the new light movement. Most colonials owned a bible,a luxury for the very rich back in England. Unlike Britain most here were literate. Because Jesus died to set us free, they fought the geatest power on earth for freedom. All money is printed with “In God We Trust” so all people know that if all they know is”thou shalt not steal” they enough to go into US cort to get their money back. To date most Americans consider themselves christian so it isa christian nation and our freedom of religion to worship as WE please without airy bigots like you preaching how we are also to think.



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Cindy---

posted August 11, 2010 at 8:57 am


Give me examples of murder in the name of Christianity, please. Name the battles and the victories in Jesus’s name. That’s an old argument that doesn’t hold water.
We have Supreme Court justices, four of nine, who voted against a cross on a mountain in the Mojave Desert. Sure, it is public land, but there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution, as Justice Kennedy cited during the decision. The founding fathers were worried that the State would try to take over religion, not the other way around.
It’s not about the muslims who love this country and want to live here in peace, it’s about radicals who will consider the mosque a victory over Christianity and capitalism. The WTC never represented Christianity, but it did represent capitalism.



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Post American

posted August 11, 2010 at 9:21 am


Well if we are gonna show images from Nine Eleven where 2,000+ Americans died in advertisements because it is “American History”, then I believe we should also show graphic images of the collateral damage in Afghanistan and Iraq that has killed hundreds of thousands of people, because that is also “American History”. The ‘Liberal’ Lamestream media censors that sort of stuff, let’s open it all up.



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Alicia

posted August 11, 2010 at 10:18 am


I doubt very much that Nicole was attempting to answer for me, Kendra. As a wise blogger on this site says, when you engage in personal attacks on people, you are substituting insult for argument.
(I’ve been away from my computer since yesterday afternoon, which is why I’ve taken so long to respond.)
Kendra, I was two blocks from the U.S. Capitol on the morning of 9/11. We closed the place I was working at the time (because we thought we were about to be bombed) and I was part of the mass exodus that walked away from the Capitol to my apartment a couple of miles away. I’ll never forget that day, which is why I support religious freedom in this country.
I’m not sure why it is hard to conceive that someone could support religious freedom for Muslims, Christians and Jews, and people of other faiths, and still not be naive or conciliatory to radical Islam. My view is we should stand up to illiberal forms of Islam, and support religious freedom for Muslim Americans at the same time. Christopher Hitchens hates religion, and he manages to support religious freedom, and criticize illiberal versions of Islam. Sometimes the right position isn’t a simple yes or a simple no.



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Ibrahim

posted August 11, 2010 at 12:49 pm


Thanks for that interview on Fox. Great work!
I find it curious that Pamela Geller mentions the KKK in her Fox interview. Consider this quote of hers, which is accessible through the website she puts on her bus ad:
“it’s the Muslims who are dragging the rest of the world with them, in their genocidal dreams of annihilating goodness, creativity, production, inventiveness, benevolence, charity, medicine, technology, and all of the gifts of the Jews. Our goodness makes them ill.” – Pamela Geller,
Pamela Geller essentially uses the very same rhetoric that every major hate-based movement (Adolf Hitler’s Nazis, the Klan) uses to isolate and disenfranchise a minority community. What’s worse is that she remains treated like a normal human being with legitimate views and is never challenged on her real position on Muslims.



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Johnny K.

posted August 11, 2010 at 3:25 pm


I don’t understand these religious cat and mouse games. The main critique by the Islamophobes was that there wasn’t a single incident where people were killed in the name of Christianity. Now, I don’t like to engage in religious mudslinging but there are tons of examples of Christian crimes in the name of Jesus.
You don’t even need to look far. Look at the plight of Native Americans. Didn’t you have Christian Spaniards come to the ‘New World’ with missionaries and tell the Aztecs and Mayans to convert or be killed. The ones that weren’t converted were raped or murdered. This is no myth. In Mexico, Hernan Cortes isn’t even commemorated for his ‘discovery’ because he basically killed off a whole race in the name of Christianity. A more recent and similar example was the ethnic cleansing of Bosnians in the hands of the Christian Serbs during the Bosnian War. Basically every Muslim boy was slaughtered and so were there fathers. The Bosnian women were spared and only good for sexual pleasures in the eyes of the Serbs.
Despite that, I don’t associate Christianity with any of those atrocities because I know those acts were unChristian-like. The same goes for Muslims and any other religious groups. The acts of a few shouldn’t be used to judge a whole people.



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Johnny K.

posted August 11, 2010 at 3:42 pm


Kendra is ridiculous. I could give you a laundry list of things wrong with her arguments but I’ll chose my favorite one because it proves how foolish the things she spews out really is.
Kendra says
***Before starting your all who disagree are “intolerant uneducated islamophobe” rant — libs always argue by namecalling — my relative married a Muslim. A Kuwaiti war bride, I will be seeing tonight. Because so many Kuwaitis view us Americans as heros, and many Kuwaitis feel it better to be a half-assed Muslim than a dead Christian***
Haha. I don’t take what she says as fact but I’m sure she strongly believes in her above statement. But here is the kicker, Imam Feisal Rauf the man who is behind the plan to build the Islamic Cultural Center near Ground Zero, is from…you guessed it – Kuwait. So based on Kendra’s own beliefs, Imam Rauf sees Americans as heroes, right? Now I’m sure Kendra doesn’t believe Imam Rauf loves America. But based on what she said he is. Which leads me to believe Kendra loves to jump to judgement when it comes to Muslims because shes convinced that they can’t be trusted for the most part.
I’d like to see her get out of this pickle with another one of her Islamophobic rants. Whats next, “I’m not a bigot because my second cousins half-sister dated a Muslim for a month, and I never had a problem with that. But she was from Egypt and many Egyptians love America because we pay them 3 billion a year to not fight with Israel, so SEE, I don’t hate Islam”



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Kendra

posted August 11, 2010 at 4:42 pm


No, Alicia you are making it personal. Read your own proselytizing posts, and blanket statements. “I’m not sure why it is hard to conceive that someone could support religious freedom for Muslims, Christians and Jews, and people of other faiths..”
It is not about restricting anyone’s right to worship — but maintaining national security.
The war we are involved in now has nothing to do with spreading the gospel. There is nothing wrong with worship until it impacts someone else’s right. Saddam Hussein, who financed Muslim terrorism for years, was probably less Muslim than my relatives through marriage.
THe gulf wars were fueled and started by thugs taking over middle-eastern governments and crueling attacking their own and now us all.
The nature of the Muslim regligion predominat in these countries, being that certain acts of murder are justified — holy — therefore that faith becomes a bullwhip in the hands of its cleric to control their own people in their geographical area– mafia style — and almost as a form of religious blackmail, the faith then becomes the rally, outlet and inspiration for ANY Muslim anywhere to commit such acts to show their “devotion” That form of “devotion,” then has been and to date presents a risk to the life — read your newspaper — or reflect on your moments running for cover — and safety to all.
Worshiping and showing devotion of faith by feeding the poor, healing the sick — or simply dancing around the moon in the dark — is not the issue. The issue is you and your kind, putting our national and individual security at risk, under the guise of “religious freedom.”
Then labling calling of us names, labling us, as “intolernt.”
Your basis being — not fact — but a subjective point of view of what the mosque symbolizes TO YOU — but written as if it were the same to all and known fact. I have issues with that and that those who do not subscribe to YOUR symbolism as intolerant.
Being at ground zero, you didn’t see the celebration on the other side of bridge, or you missed the broadcasts, of what the tragedy 9-11 symbolized to Muslims, just next door to the event, who paraded, waved signs and chanted “Death to America” while the firetrucks and police personnel were still being dispatched.
So, I doubt that even every Muslim agrees with your view of what the Cordoba House built near Ground Zero symbolizes.
Since you truly don’t know what the Cordoba House sumbolizes to EVERY Muslim, you are not qualified to judge or comment on what it symbolizes to each non-Muslim — then qualify everyone who does not agree with you as “intolerant.” That is intolerant. Your intolerance. The hypocrisy is what I find intolerable.
Still, it is your right…



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Kendra

posted August 11, 2010 at 4:51 pm


Johnny: You should read before your post. You’re not even answering anything I wrote. You just re-wrote it for me, then commented on your re-write.
How lib.
If you lose an argument, make one up.
And, as for your Kuwaiti Imam tangent… is that suppose to make sense?
However, somehow, all Kuwaiti Muslims are suppose to love the Imam who is Kuwaiti. I doubt that. Anymore than I am suppose to love you, because we are both Americans.
But, my Kuwaiti Muslim relatives do not have an issue with not having a Mosque at ground zero as that would be disrespectful for the tragedy that has occured. If Americans wanted to build their own… well, that may be another matter.
Since, you don’t have any muslim Kuwait relatives of your own, you are quite rediculous calling those of us who do, islamophobes.



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Ibrahim

posted August 11, 2010 at 5:25 pm


Kendra, what the heck are you talking about?
I’m Muslim. There was no “celebration” of the attacks in the US. EVERY Muslim organization came out in absolute condemnation of it. There’s nothing “holy” about killing non-combatants in Islam, even in a time of war. I was in college at the time, I attended the candle light vigils along with hundreds of Muslims from my college. Even in the streets of Tehran, people were out in solidarity condemning the attacks.
As for Saddam or Kuwait or anyplace else in the Middle East – the only reason the US has any relations in that area, is oil. When it suits US oil interests, the US will support democracy, and when it suits US oil interests the US will overthrow democracies. The US and UK overthrew Mosaddeq in Iran and replaced him with a tyrant, and even trained his secret police in the use of torture against political dissidents. You mention Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein was a US stooge until he invaded Kuwait. Until then America was happy to give him the chemical and biological weapons to help him fight Iran.
Ever watch Lawrence of Arabia? You could learn a thing or two from that movie. America is much like the UK and France in that movie.



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Alicia

posted August 11, 2010 at 6:22 pm


Hi, Kendra,
I don’t believe I said you were intolerant in any of my posts. Nor did I call you any names to the best of my recollection. I would appreciate it if you would extend me and others on this site the same courtesy.
Just a clarification. I was in Washington, D.C. two blocks from the U.S. Capitol on 9/11, not at Ground Zero in Manhattan. I don’t recall any public celebrations by Muslims in the U.S. and I watched the coverage for many hours and days after that. I did see the coverage of Palestinians in the West Bank celebrating on 9/11, and I was as appalled and infuriated by that as anyone you will ever meet. I was also appalled by any attempts by people to justify what happened on that date on the grounds that the U.S. is “a terrorist state” – see Noam Chomsky’s book on 9/11 for an example of this nonsense.
I don’t like the term “Islamophobic” because I feel it is an attempt to stifle legitimate concerns and criticisms of what I have called “illiberal” versions of Islam. I don’t believe that anyone who opposes building this mosque two blocks from Ground Zero is Islamophobic. I should have been clearer in my original statement: to me, in my opinion, building Cordoba House two blocks from Ground Zero is a tribute to our freedom of religion, and so I support it.
I also think trying to stop the building of mosques at several locations in the U.S. may be fueled by legitimate fears and concerns. Having legitimate fears and concerns about, say, too much Wahabi influence in U.S. mosques, however, does not justify depriving American Muslims of the same civil liberties and rights that other Americans enjoy. Thanks for listening.



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Kendra

posted August 11, 2010 at 7:03 pm


Ibrahim: You weren’t there. Just because you did not celebrate — does not mean EVERY Muslim did not celebrate. You cannot speak for EVERY Muslim, just as I cannot speak for every non-Muslim.
Just the same that I don’t rob others, does not mean I am never at risk of being robbed myself.
I disagree with your take on the politics in Iraq, etc. I respect that you have your facts, then give an opinion on them. But that there is the point. It is POLITICS, and a political situation that involved the U.S. which had to choose between Hussein and the Ayatollah. Comparatively Hussein looked good at the time. As for the tyrant, one of my friend’s father a major general under the Shaw was executed by the Ayatollah, and they had to run for their lives. I also feel women and people in general had it better then than under the Ayatollah, or Ahaminajab (sp) who is threatening the U.S. — still — and Israel, and using the Muslim faith to perpetrate it. So, I feel these issues more about power, with religion of the region used as a tool of choice. Comparatively, the secret service police under the shaw look almost nice. Not to justify either one.
In POLITICS the choices are not great and simply comes down to what costs the less lives in the immediate.
And, that is the issue with the Mosque at Ground Zero.
That it is intolerant to presume EVERY Muslim is a jihadist — it is dangerous to presume EVERY Muslim is not. As is painfully evident, it does not take a huge crowd to inflict much harm.
A good example, would be jet that was taken down by one of the pilots. As he was saying praise be to Allah the co-pilate was screaming “expletive, expletive… you will kill us all.”
Not every Muslim has to approve of a jihad based threat for one to occur. If every member of every population agreed on a crime — there wouldn’t be any. It would be law.
That Muslim organization condmened the acts on the world trade center publicly — great. They should. There has been more to condemn since. But, that fact alone, is the issue: since NO ONE can guarantee that EVERY Muslim going to the Mosque at Ground Zero is NOT going to commit an act that other Muslims do not subscribe to — it is a security risk to the area and all living in that area. And, that with the usual lineup of day to day crime that goes on in any city. No one can guarantee that NO ONE will commit a crime against anyone attending the Mosque if only to pick a wallet.
Then, there are the POLITICS of the issue.
And, as for Lawrence of Arabia — who gets their education from Hollywood? I take such movies as more of a well…not for fact.



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Kendra

posted August 11, 2010 at 7:05 pm


“jet taken down by one of the pilots” I think that was an Egytian airliner. Not to confuse that with the jets from 9-11.



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Kendra

posted August 11, 2010 at 7:18 pm


Alicia: Thank you. With that post, you have explained why you support it from your point of view and I get it. From that point of view, then I respect your intent — but, I disagree for the reaons set forth in Ibrahim’s post. I don’t think that that will come off that way, but you have explained your view rationally.



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Alicia

posted August 11, 2010 at 8:21 pm


Thanks, Kendra.



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Johnny K.

posted August 11, 2010 at 9:40 pm


Again whats the worry with this mosque. If there were any legitimate terrorist ties with Imam Rauf he would be behind bars in Gitmo drinking toilet water and eating rock hard biscuits.
This is pure sensationalism. Imam Rauf has not done anything questionable for there to be any concern. The FBI breaks peoples freedoms all the time and I’m sure they’ve dug up all the stuff they could on this guy and there still isn’t much to make any case against him. Thats the end o the story. Some Islamophobes choose to make a lot out of nothing and this is where all this outcry is coming from.



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Secular Islam

posted August 12, 2010 at 10:09 am


Here we go again. The only way to prove patriotic Americans aren’t insensitive is to calmly support neo-pagan KKK demands to emolate Crann Tara monuments next to MLK memorials.
The only way to prove we’re not overly offensive is to remain coldly apathetic over Marxist demands to build statues of Stalin next to the Lincoln Memorial.
Apparently (if your a patriotic American anyway), the 1st amendment is just an invitation to shut up, bend over and grab your ankles? Not in my America, Jack!
Why are Leftists– who reflexively vomit over school (*gasp*) Christmas pageants– suddenly the arbiters of what’s “reasonable” at Ground Zero?
Leftist submissiveness to Imam Rauf’s Islamo-supremacist demands sends the message that Leftists are Quislings and cowards.
Are Leftist idiotarians prepared to let Cordoba House intellectually bully them into accepting Imam Rauf’s false assertion– that sharia law advocacy is (somehow) representative of moderate Muslims?
American Muslims may be the very soul of moderation. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for secular Americans (Muslim and non-Muslim alike) to ask for more from (allegedly) “peaceful” Cordoba House jihadists than insincere bromides and disingenuous whitewashing of uncomfortable elements of Islamic sharia law, as practiced by the Cordoba House cabal and their financial sponsors.
A genuine tiny minority of anti-jihadist Muslims may be found @
http://secularislam.org/blog/post/SI_Blog/21/The-St-Petersburg-Declaration
Americans remain breathless in anticipation of the sharia law vendors of Cordoba House supporting this genuinely tiny minority of their co-religionists– but don’t hold your breath.
“Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!” [Matthew 23:24]



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Anti-idiotarian

posted August 12, 2010 at 10:17 am


To listen to Leftist idiotarians, you’d think that opposition to Cordoba House is the hobgoblin of a few small minds on the right. Racists, fascists, Islamophobes, xenophobes, Neanderthals– the whole Star Wars cantina of boogeymen and cranks stand opposed to poor, innocent Imam Rauf. *sob*
Absent from this fairly naked effort to demonize the vast majority of Americans is the simple fact that Cordoba House support has tanked in the polls for weeks.
The latest poll? By a margin of 61 to 26 percent, New Yorkers oppose the proposal to build the Cordoba House.
http://www.siena.edu/uploadedfiles/home/parents_and_community/community_page/sri/independent_research/Imm0710%20Release.pdf
“Large majorities of all New Yorkers, every party, region and age give a thumbs-down to the Cordoba House Mosque being built near the Ground Zero site,” said Dr. Don Levy, the institute’s director, in a press release.
This Leftist demonization campaign should be accepted for what it is– silly, delusional and disconnected.
Support the will of the people, Mayor Bloomberg.



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Anti-Quisling

posted August 12, 2010 at 10:18 am


Quislings don’t confront real evil; and hate those who do. You can see this on almost any school playground. The kid who confronts the school bully is often resented more than the bully. Whether out of guilt over their own cowardice or out of fear that the one who confronted the bully will provoke the bully to lash out more, those who refuse to confront the bully often resent the one who does.
Today, Leftist-Quislings express that cowardly contempt for those of us who take a hard line with Cordoba House. It’s ever our fault (you see) for provoking these bully. Better to remain supine while the sharia law advocates satisfy themselves raising money for terrorists; tormenting American widows and orphans at Ground Zero; erecting their monument to Islamo-triumphalism.
The Quisling answer: Just attack patriotic Americans as “bigots” (ad hominem) and hope the crocs eat them last.
There’s a word for that: Cowardice.
Own it, Quislings.



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GunRights4US

posted August 12, 2010 at 3:24 pm


The first mistake is viewing Islam as a religion. It isn’t a religion, it’s a political system masquerading as a religion. A free society’s toleration of Islam is very like a healthy body tolerating a malignant tumor; everything is alright for awhile but…
No Islamic death-cult temples ANYWHERE, but most especially anywhere near the site of the WTC!!!



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John F. Hahn

posted August 12, 2010 at 3:37 pm


The US Constitution’s First Amendment ensures freedom of religion as well as freedom of speech. An all too overlooked question is: What constitutes a religion? What if an ideology exceeds the nomal bounds of what is considered a religion and in fact purports to be a comprehensive ordering of life, spiritually, financially, politically, physically, not only for its adherents but also for those hapless non-adherents who happen to be under the control of such a belief system? This is not a “religion” in the sense of a personal confession as the authors of the US Constitution understood but something quite different.
Those considerations aside for the moment, the question is not freedom of religion. It is freedom from religion. An enormous crime was committed on 9/11 and the citizens of this country have a right to question the positioning of the proposed center, in its location, in the targeted date of opening and the context of Cordoba, from which this initiative takes its name. Why do the sensibilities of those Moslems supporting this project and its putative outreach to non-Moslems trump the sensibilities of those of us who still recall that 9/11 was perpetrated in the name of Islam and are aware that plots of this kind are still being hatched by adherents of Islam? As the ads succinctly put it: “Why there?” Why indeed any kind of building? Why not devote the $100M projected costs for this center towards re-education of the terrorists who supposedly misunderstand their religion to the extent that murder seems to them a holy duty?
Now, to go back to the first point and Cordoba, Ms. Neroulias does not do her readers a favor by spouting truisms concerning the Moorish occupation of Spain. “La Convivencia,” as its admirers such as Mr. Neroulias would have us believe, was an era of harmony and mutual respect under Moslem rule. This utopian assertion is far from the truth. Google “Martyrs of Cordoba” for example, where the word “martyr” is used in the standard sense of the word, not the Islamic sense. And then study the history of the Cathedral of Cordoba: the church built upon a mosque…built upon a church.
Ms. Neroulias may scream if she sees a bus ad questioning the motives of this proposed project. I suppose it is her First Amendment right to do so. But her scream, her histrionics, her indulgence in her own smug political correctness, leaves the central question, the only question, go answered: “Why there?”



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Paladion

posted August 12, 2010 at 6:13 pm


THERE ARE SO MANY GOOD-HEARTED PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD
…. The spanish army under captain Hernán Cortéz stormmed the aztec’s stronghold. King Moctezuma look the lightly upon the incident lightly, being contemplated as a vision from God Quetzaltcoal, The King open his heart and offered them best wishes.
…. After a visit to Adolph Hitler, the Primer Minister Neville Chamberlain returned to Englad, and disclosing a a big smile o his face, stated that he was pretty sure about Hitle’s pious intentions.
…. therafter, millons of jew? were paked on railway coaches just like cattle, under the promissed that they were going for a ride to Disney Land. They felt most happy about it.
….The revolutionary goverment of Rusia, promissed a lot of land and freedom to the people…….. They are still waiting.
…. After having defeat dictador Batista, Fidel Castro came to Habana exhibiting a catholic crucifix hanging from his neck……… He was, and stil he is, a communist.
…. currently, both the european and the american women, as a whole, feel terribly opressed by so many laws and regulations placed upon them by thier own goverment, so they can hardly wait for the arrival of the “sharia” law. Allelujah!
The road to Dante’s Inferno is packed with good intentions!.



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SFC MAC

posted August 12, 2010 at 6:33 pm


Either Nichole is very, very naive, or she’s one of the biggest Dhimmis on the planet. Newsflash Nikki: We object to a muslim terrorist-connected group building a “victory mosque” anywhere in the United States, especially New York City. Do some research on the miscreants behind the Cordoba Project, before you opine all about what you think is “insensitive and offensive”. Think of that proposed mosque as tantamount to allowing the Japanese to build a shrine at Pearl Harbor.
You know what offends me, sweetpea? A little princess like you who has less of a problem with Islamofascism than what it takes to stop it.
SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET)
Iraq War vet



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Kendra

posted August 12, 2010 at 10:05 pm


Or, Cheryl like U.S. building a huge monument of a B-52 at the epicenter of the atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima. These same people would calling everyon against the mosque at Ground Zero names, would be screaming, calling all those in support of the B-52 Monument in Hiroshima insensitve, intolerant and downright mean…. They play it both ways, whichever suits them — but insist we accept the Mosque. Those (read the earlier posts) de-crying the “christian right” and seeing christianity involved in our goverment and the separation of church and state ARE SICKENINGLY SILENT ON Gov. Patterson’s offer of STATE LAND — FREE — almost bankrupt NY doesn’t need anymore money, to the Imam to build his Mosque.
Or, is that o.k. to them, because the Mosque is not a house of worship but an organization. A criminal organization but an organization. But, then how is it THEIR freedom of religion is impacted by not being able to worship at the Mosque of their choice near the graves of those killed in the WTC attack (which is more than the twin towers, all 9 buildings around it were down, and other buildings blocks away real close to the proposed Mosque site) if Islam is an organization not a religion — but wait — there is no freedom of religion THERE the Imam is Kuwait– but he should have it HERE — but it is not a religion if Gov. Patterson can GIVE the Imam state land, and so it does not appear to be a state sponsered religion… but… don’t confuse libs with their own logic…



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Hamidreza

posted August 13, 2010 at 12:16 am


Heh – Pamela Geller gave you a good tongue lashing, Nicole.
Its so de-classe of you to go on fox and of all things complain about “false advertisement”? Who are you trying to kid? Why lie so blatently? You were against the free expression of that ad. Face it Nicole.
And then you whitewash centuries of Islamic and Mohammad’s slavery, misery, persecution, terrorism, and child brainwashing with your silly, and uninformed comment on the Islamic occupation of Spain.
I am a former Muslim Nicole, and your bigotry and “white leftism” that you manifested is apalling. Your ignorance about anything related to Mohammad, the mass murderer and child molestor, is beyond redemption.
I am a proud Muslim apostate, a hater of Islam and Islamic slavery, and I condemn the bigotted white leftists who break bread with medieval theocratic fascists.
Hamidreza Asefipoor
Do you have the courage not to censor my opinion?



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SFC MAC

posted August 14, 2010 at 11:44 am


@Kendra,
Nice try on rivising history to fit your leftwing narrative. Last I checked, we are at war with the very miscreants who fund and operate mosques like the one proposed by Rauf. Here’s some info on the Cordoba Project: http://article.nationalreview.com/438616/raufs-dawa-from-the-world-trade-center-rubble/andrew-c-mccarthy
Rauf’s Cordoba Project is a radical muslim group that wants to build a mosque, which is for all intent and purpose, a satellite of the network of muslim terrorist groups who attacked this country on 9/11.
Our anger over this is met with mealy-mouthed assclowns like Michael Bloomberg and radical muzzie groups arguing that critics’ attacks amount to “religious bigotry.”
When it comes to religious bigotry, intolerance, hate speech, and discrimination, no culture holds a candle to Islam. That record speaks for itself.
Tell you what, Kendra. The day you support building a church or a synagogue in Mecca, is the day you can talk about “tolerance”.
We A-bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki to bring the war in the Pacific to a halt. The Japanese got the message. BTW: They never did suffer the full consequence of atrocities like the Bataan Death March. They got off pretty easy. Same for the Germans. We used tactics in Germany like fire-bombing Dresden for 10 days. The Germans were finally defeated after we pummeled enough of them, but in light of the Holocaust and the way they treated American prisoners, they too, got off light.
And your point is besides the one on your head?
SFC MAC



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SFC MAC

posted August 14, 2010 at 11:48 am


@Kendra,
I’m sorry. I misread your comment. Mea Culpa. Suffice it to say that I misinterpreted you initial sentence as a slap from the Left at my post. Please accept my apology. I re-read your entire post, and you are correct.
SFC MAC



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Robert C

posted August 14, 2010 at 12:46 pm


“We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world.”
Ayatollah Khomeini



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churchmouse

posted August 20, 2010 at 2:38 pm


Peace2all
You said, “That is why, we just can’t over-generalize that ‘all’ Muslims, and the religion of Islam is ‘out to get us’, just because they have some extremeists, just like the christians. Why just a few months ago, I believe that there were militia spouting off bible verse after bible verse and getting ready to kill people, I believe up in Michigan, ‘in the name of the lord.’
The religion of Islam states that one of the goals for Allah is worldwide domination. I can post many scriptures that back this view up just let me know. The thing is….you talk about not all of them think like the radicals that were responsible for 9-11….but tell me do you know for sure all their motives? The population of Muslims in America compared to the world’s population of them is small. They are not allowed to practice their true faith because of American laws. Who knows why they came here but not all are good. It’s the same thing with the illegal’s invading the border. I live in Arizona…they are not all innocent people looking for work. The majority are drug running thugs who come to kill and kidnap. The thing is they know that we have a Constitution that ties our hands behind our backs and that is motivation enough to come here. They know nothing will happen to them because we have freedom to do just about anything we want. Well until Obamas health care thing was railroaded through..now the government will force us to buy it. On 9-11 millions and millions of Muslims all over the world, clapped and cheered as things went down. They celebrated the destruction of Big Satan as they call us. So don’t tell me that a hand full of radicals are just responsible for 9-11. We have people in the country today working normal jobs undercover. They wait for the perfect time to unleash their hatred on us.
Where are Christians today beheading people and joyfully taking credit for it? Where today are Christians forcing people to worship Christ? Where is this happening? Even the Westboro Baptists don’t kill. If there is conflict and war in the world…Islam is involved.
You use the example of the militia in Michigan……….but the thing is they didn’t kill. I am not saying that Christianity is not responsible in the past for much violence.. it has to take responsibility for that dark part of history. But today is today and it is NOT GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD or IN AMERICA.
It is not the goal of Christians to kill people who do not worship Christ. We might tell them they are doomed because probably won’t be able to do that. they don’t believe, but no violence is involved. And with the hate crimes legislation Christians
“We have religious freedom…… for a reason…. So, all can practice their faith as they see fit. Obviously, without hurting anyone”
Yes but what about religions that seek to destroy other religions? Do we let them do whatever they want? Should we have sharia law in the states? Should we allow mutilations? Decapitations as justice? Honor killings? Should we allow them to do what their book says to do for Allah?
You suggest that we should tone down? LOL
And what will you say the next 9-11? There will be another I am sure of it. If we close our eyes to their goals..(and Europe is waking up, France just banned the burka) we will perish. I for one will not sit back and fall for Islam being a religion of peace. Maybe its peace here in America but for the majority….no way. This has nothing to do with bigotry. And if you think Islam is so peaceful and great………go live there. I doubt however you will be able to say there what you are saying here, not if you value your head.



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Windshine

posted August 26, 2010 at 5:48 pm


It’s an insult to build a Mosque two blocks from Ground Zero. And it is a Mosque disguised by the Muslim Community Center proposed to contain it.
All Mosques are community centers for Muslims. And I’ve heard proponents of this project say they don’t understand the clamor against the newest project, because there is already a Mosque at or very near Ground Zero.
OK, then why do they need this one so close?
Only stupid people think those who oppose this are attempting to violate Muslim freedom of religion. The Mosques that exist in NYC already prove the lie for what it is. An attempt to insult Americans for daring to be outraged at the arrogance of this Muslim Center’s sponsors thinking they have a right to put a worship center so close to the spot where radical Muslims took thousands of lives, impressing upon the world and all of America that Islam hates us. And this latest proposal is meant to let us never forget it.
And if Islam was truly a religion of peace, the sponsors of this wouldn’t insist on this project that the majority of New Yorkers oppose.
And if anyone is anti-American, it’s the corrupt politicians that are giving special favor to Islam while taking a piss on the Greek Orthodox church for these last 9 years, as they try without success to rebuild their church that the 911 attacks destroyed. American government is selling out to radical Islam. This project in NYC proves it’s just the beginning.
We’re in for a war people! Make no mistake about it.



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LK

posted August 28, 2010 at 9:04 pm


I live in Manhattan. I was here on 9/11 and my husband, who worked in the World Financial Center, witnessed the second plane enter the tower that day.
I was therefore beyond words today when my 4 year old daughter saw an ad portraying a burning WTC with an airplane in front of it plastered across the side of a bus and asked me what it was for. How could I tell her that some people (representing the so-called “American Freedom Defense Initiative”) are willing to manipulate the memories of thousands of innocents killed in order to add fire to their unwarranted, narrow-minded, xenophobic anti-Muslim fear?
Shame on you.



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sillybill

posted September 2, 2010 at 1:12 pm


in central NJ, there are many Indian cultural centers.
Walk in the doors, and you’ll see, they’re all Hindu temples (I’m not saying that all Indians are Hindus, I’m specifically referring to the cultural centers). Cultural centers seem to get permits quicker.



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nastol02

posted May 8, 2012 at 6:55 am


This is such a complex topic.
While success at condition stage and individual investment progression,
both your companion and the maid’s kids, are created possible by this,
we are never sure if the globe is better off as a whole. For one thing,
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community and their loved ones.
brooklyn laundry service



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