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A Pagan's Blog


Koran Burning and the Logic of Empire

posted by Gus diZerega

General Petraeus has warned that if Korans are burned by Sauronic bigots our troops will be in greater danger.  This has ignited a fascinating debate over at Huffingtonpost as to whether these imbeciles have the right to burn the book.  Pretty much lost in the discussion is a far deeper issue: that between empire and liberty.

If we had no troops over there none would be at risk.  Equally importantly, if we had no troops over there these imbeciles would almost certainly not be burning the Koran, and if they were no one would pay them much mind.  
In empire there is no longer a distinction between internal politics and foreign policy.  Decency and freedom both ultimately lose.  If we preserve these people’s constitutional right to act like Nazis, troops who volunteered to serve their country will possibly be killed.  If we seek to preserve these troops by denying these bigots their freedom, a precedent will be set that is open ended whenever government can argue Americans acting freely endanger foreign policy goals. And believe me, they will.
Free societies and empire do not mix. As Britain became freer she gave up her empire when keeping it got in the way of the rule of law and principles of liberty.  As we become more an oligarchic empire, we give up our freedom. 
Cry the beloved country.


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Micah

posted September 6, 2010 at 10:31 pm


I guess you have to be a General to coin a new term; Sauronic.
In any event, the level of ass kissing for Islam, is amazing. A community is in an uproar over that sign!? “ISLAM IS OF THE DEVIL”.
But would they be in an uproar over one that reads: “GAYS ARE OF THE DEVIL”
Most likely those who are roaring over the Islam sign, would agree with the later one.
And a General is saying our troops in Afghanistan may suffer more under the Taliban, if this one church goes through with burning the Koran?
While Muslims burn American flags, and the bodies of dead American contractors, and slaughter Doctors helping the poor in Afghanistan? And now we have to worry about what we say about Islam, and daring to burn the holy book that inspires their terrorism, because radical Muslims may become more violent in Afghanistan?
Those Afghanistan terrorists who the Press has reported we’re paying, so as to let the convoys with supplies through their protected lines, so those shipments can arrive at our American soldiers camps so they can be outfitted to kill more radical Muslim Afghani’s!?
Is anyone believing this garbage?
The Christian religious can decry gays, pagans, etc… but how dare one church threaten to burn a Koran?! Oh, it’s the end of the world! Our soldiers who are already being slaughtered by Afghan Muslims, may die what?! Even more than before?!
While Muslims don’t give a damn about what we think about how they do business in their Muslim countries?! And here a church exercising their first amendment rights on two fronts, as a religion freely speaking against a terrorist faith, must hush now! Else we might upset those people who follow that RELIGION OF PEACE, THAT WILL KILL US IF THEY DON’T LIKE WHAT WE DO IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!?
Fuck OFF General! Kill the bastards the way you’re suppose to, which is why you’re there in the first place, and don’t you dare tell us we have to stop speaking freely else we may upset the murdering scum you’re there to kill, in the first place!
Give me a break! Suck the ass of a Muslim day! Attack your own people, because you don’t want to upset a Muslim!
We should have flags and holidays and a nifty little tune, for our enslavement to terrorism because we don’t want them to go boom, or kill us any more than they already are, because they might be upset by anything American’s do!



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Gwyddion9

posted September 6, 2010 at 10:50 pm


Well, Micah,
You apparently have a high opinion of yourself and thoughts.
Sauronic is a kind term for Christian Conservatives but I prefer the terms Christ Cult or Religious Reich, personally as this is the way most that I’ve encountered act. They also have high opinions of themselves and beliefs too.
“While Muslims burn American flags, and the bodies of dead American contractors, and slaughter Doctors helping the poor in Afghanistan? And now we have to worry about what we say about Islam, and daring to burn the holy book that inspires their terrorism, because radical Muslims may become more violent in Afghanistan?”
Gus states a plain and precise reason for this. For the Taliban, any reason is enough to kill and this will simply give them more reason. You make a point of killing Americans but the thing is WE AMERICANS do not do the same things as the Taliban. Gus’s thoughts on this matter are respectable as is his reasoning. I should think you’d understand this but apparently not.
It is precisely the “Sauronic Christians” who decry Gays and Pagans. This is no surprise to us. If laws were different in the U. S., I’d expect conservative Christians would torture and kill Gays and Pagans with little concern and with lots of justification. Hell, they killed the abortion Doctor in Kansas as an example. I trust conservative Christians as far as I could throw my car!
Yes, the dumb ass church has every right to exercise its First Amendment rights but stupid is as stupid does. They’re doing it for their little time in the spotlight. As far as I’m concerned, conservative Christians and the Taliban have much in common, killing, conflict and justification of what they do and say. Neither has any room to point fingers!



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Apuleius Platonicus

posted September 6, 2010 at 11:28 pm


“If we had no troops over there none would be at risk. Equally importantly, if we had no troops over there these imbeciles would almost certainly not be burning the Koran, and if they were no one would pay them much mind.”
It’s a tempting hypothesis. But Christians and Muslims have been at each others throats … well, for as long as there have been Christians and Muslims.
I guess its like the old saying goes: familiarity breeds contempt.



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Gus diZerega

posted September 7, 2010 at 12:07 am


Yes Apuleius- the religions of the book, any book, have a lot of trouble with anyone who reads words differently than they. Only the wise are able to relatively reliably find the truth in texts in my view while they give the ignorant and stupid the illusion of understanding – as Plato pointed out long ago in the Phaedrus.
That said, the current level of nastiness is far beyond recent times, and largely because of the US, I’m afraid.
I would have deleted the insane babble of “Micah” but Gwyddion took enough time responding to him that I figured it would be unfair to him to do so. I am so tired of religious bigots who bloviate with both authority and abysmal ignorance. It’s no accident he ignored my reasons – he cannot deal with reasons, only intensity and anger. Pretty pathetic.



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Sarenth

posted September 7, 2010 at 2:04 am


I think what bothers me the most about the statements General Patreaus is making is that he is asking we silence freedom of expression within the country whose freedom he is supposed to defend, not mitigate. He is out of line. I can give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he is probably worried about his troops, but all the same, he is out of line.
Having known many Muslims throughout my life, having spoken with them on my religion and their views, most simply just want to live as we do, and some of them simply want to wear their religious garb in public without being whispered at or asked if they are a terrorist. I live in a state with an immense Muslim population; they are my neighbors and my friends. I have no care if these people believe something anathema to me, or if they believe that my religion has equal importance with theirs. So long as they do not seek to deprive me of my rights or of my ability to exercise my freedom of religion, I say let them enjoy their religion. No Muslim, even a Sheikh who once tried very hard to convert me for several hours (we ended up having a dialogue) has ever sought to deprive me of my rights in local or national works.
Insofar as ‘they’re burning Korans! This will endanger our people’ I think Jon Stewart was very direct in his thoughts on this, saying that it doesn’t matter what we do, the people who think we’re evil will still think we’re evil and burn our flags. As he said, “You could build them a Flag Incinerator Machine in Washington D.C. and they’ll STILL burn flags!” I know he’s satirizing, but let’s come off this bull of ‘defending our country’. From what? Women and children who eek out a living on cents a day? From people half a world away with Cold War era technology for combat? From people who have not raised a finger on our soil or tried to attack us in any way, shape, or form? A handful of terrorists from a hodgepodge (though mostly Saudi Arabians) does not make a damned strike force from any single country…and yet logic dies in the face of so much hate, just like compassion and mercy. I’ve not the stomach for all this hate. Muslims are my neighbors and friends.



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grandpasmurf952

posted September 7, 2010 at 11:14 am


Anyone who wants to can walk up to a junkyard dog and start kicking it.
But only a total idiot will expect the dog to lay there and not rip you to shreds!
This fundamentalist wacko should be prevented from being a martyr to his cause by the simple act of incarcerating him as criminally insane.
This man knows very well that lives will be lost because of his actions and hopes to generate publicity for his cause. He is a murderer plain and simple but an insane murderer who deserves to be protected from his own insane actions with the added bonus of defusing his attempt to be a martyr!



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Gus diZerega

posted September 7, 2010 at 11:54 am


The stop him or not question is ultimately the wrong question, one qe lose as soon as we enter into it. I disagree with Sarenth – there are lots and lots of examples where crazed devotees have been set off by rumors of acts of desecration towards that to which they are devoted. Racists have often committed savage acts on similar types of rumors. That someone is ready to fly off the handle with provocation does not mean the provoker is innocents. BUT stopping these lunatics sets a very bad precedent that lovers of war will use against free expression. (Protest emboldens the enemy is already a mantra on the right.)
Empire and freedom do not mix – any more than slavery and freedom – where the American South before the Civil War was degenerating into an ever more oppressive society for most whites. Same principle, same outcome.
I think the wisest course whenever this issue arises is not to take sides but to attack the frame assumed by those who want to argue the matter.



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Snoozepossum

posted September 7, 2010 at 1:40 pm


“Just because you can, doesn’t mean that you should.”
~ Acheron Parthenopaeus
There are plenty of things I am free to do, that I will not do because I am also free to decide to not be a flaming asshole, especially when it won’t solve more problems than it creates.



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Jim

posted September 7, 2010 at 1:47 pm


Dear Gus:
This is a little tangential, but I think it fits. My observation of U.S. history is that the U.S. has always been an empire and has always had intense expansionist tendencies. The westward march, which deliberately displaced indigenous populations, the conquest of the Philippines, the Mexican-American war, Wilson’s intervention in W.W. I; the list is long and as far as I can tell is present throughout U.S. history. I bring this up because among critics of the current U.S. wars in the Middle East there seems to be an argument that this Empire building is anomalous and in some sense an aberration, that abandoning Empire would be a return to a normal, non-interventionist, non-empire building America. This is the kind of view offered in particular by right wing opponents to empire such as what one finds at anti-war.com, or Ron Paul, or, at times, Pat Buchanan. I just wonder if it is true. What period in U.S. history would one turn to for such a non-interventionist relationship to the world?
The reason I think it is relevant to bring this up is that I think that a non-interventionist, non-empire building U.S. represents a truly radical departure from the norm of U.S. history. I think it is a far more radical proposal because it would constitute a fundamental alteration in the way the U.S. relates to the world.
Jim



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Snoozepossum

posted September 7, 2010 at 1:48 pm


Sorry, also meant to add:
Petraeus is there; I am not. It’s real easy to make pronouncements about how things should or shouldn’t be when you aren’t the one getting blown up.



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Charlie

posted September 7, 2010 at 2:15 pm


A case could be made that this exercise of free speech is “directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action” and thus is not protected by the 1st amendment.



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Gus diZerega

posted September 7, 2010 at 2:16 pm


Snoozepossum, that may well be true – probablt is, though I’m not so impressed with him – but what of my argument?



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Gus diZerega

posted September 7, 2010 at 2:23 pm


Jim-
Yes and no. Except for lands we took in order to settle empire American style is relatively new – beginning under the Corporate Republicans of the time and McKinley. (I do not mean to excuse American crimes against Mexico and Indians.) When we stole lands to settle there was little attention paid to the logic of pure domination – we were extending our “way of life.” Now it’s different.
Our empire along traditional lines of subjugation and exploitation never amounted to much, happily, although we massacred tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of Philippinos and treated the Hawaiians like shit. After WWII we more or less let our colonies go except for bases all over the place, which arguably deterred the Soviets. Now criminals like Cheney and others have opened the flood gates and ratcheted a chronic domestic illness into a full blown life-threatening and country-threatening disease.



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Gus diZerega

posted September 7, 2010 at 2:24 pm


Charlie-That is just my point – that reasoning has no limits.



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Charlie

posted September 7, 2010 at 2:36 pm


Gus, I agree that the definition of ‘clear and present danger’ will always be subjective, but don’t you think society needs some protection against inciting riots? I’m a firm believer in the protection of free speech even when (or especially when) that speech is repugnant to you, but I also believe that there needs to be some practical limits. I’m not real crazy about the folks that do the deciding but don’t know a good alternative.



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Gus diZerega

posted September 7, 2010 at 2:40 pm


Charlie-
This involves inciting riots in Afghanistan. There is no risk of big Muslim American riots. If domestic freedom can be limited because it interferes with imperialism… that is just my point.



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Charlie

posted September 7, 2010 at 2:47 pm


There is no big risk of American muslim riots because they know they’d end up in Gitmo. But that’s another debate. ;-)



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The L

posted September 7, 2010 at 4:08 pm


The bigots have a right to burn those books. We, as free Americans, also have the right to call them out for the monsters they are. We also have the right to point out that every Koran burned was purchased from a bookstore, thus supporting the publishers that print Korans.
In modern times, a book-burning is not only a sign of closed-mindedness, it’s also incredibly counter-productive.



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kenneth

posted September 7, 2010 at 4:20 pm


Our only way out of Empire is bankruptcy. Real, “Big B” broke. It sucks, and it will be painful, it will happen if it’s not already, and it’s ultimately our only hope for rebirth as a republic.



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Franklin Evans

posted September 7, 2010 at 5:06 pm


Maybe I’m slip-sliding down the tu quoque slope, but I can’t help but ask the question: If a group of American Muslims decided to protest Christian missionaries converting Muslims in other countries by burning Bibles, is there any doubt that some of them would end up in the hospital (or worse) as a result of some Christians taking their God-given right of expression to those lengths?
In the end, though, this non-Christian is disgusted by the absence of Christianity in the very notion of burning Korans. I don’t care that they have a protected right to do that. This is the ugly face of the Christianity Pagans ancient and modern have been seeing for centuries. I see no reason to tolerate it because the targets happen to be non-Pagans (this time).



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Cheryl Hill

posted September 7, 2010 at 5:16 pm


Could this Koran burning be considered a hate crime? The way burning a cross or putting up a noose would be?



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Marlon C. Hartshorn

posted September 7, 2010 at 6:22 pm


U guys should read Pagans in the Promised Land by Steven Newcomb. It goes to the heart of this matter – the cognitive bias we used (& still have) to take land away from Native Americans in the first place based on Christian religious values to justify imperialism. So this is one strong argument that religious values are incredibly important to all people. All ideas come from individuals. I think what we really need to stop imperialism is strong education & personal responsibility for one’s actions & thoughts and value system. Strengthening that will go a long way towards a peaceful & just world. Fanaticism in any form always leads to rigidity and people getting hurt or not loved. It’s such an irony that people who claim to worship such a loving guy like Jesus is supposed to be, would preach such hatred for others just people of some words in a book. I guess the power of words is way more than we ever dreamed!



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Marlon C. Hartshorn

posted September 7, 2010 at 6:24 pm


correction: second to last sentence should read “…just BECAUSE of some words in a book.” thanks!



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michael

posted September 7, 2010 at 7:07 pm


Here’s my problem with burning the “books”. We all know what happened after the Abu Grab photos came out. We saw brave Americans dressed in orange jumpsuits having their heads cut off. Burn a Koran and we will see American troops naked with a gallon of gas poured on their bodies and burned alive. Those bastards are easily capable of this. There are other ways to protest these animals. Burning their Koran is not one of them.



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Jacqueline

posted September 7, 2010 at 7:30 pm


Cross burning has NOTHING to do with religion Cheryl. It has to do with the color of your skin. It was popularized by the KKK.
Christianity has NOTHING to do with taking the land from the Native Americans, Marlon. It’s all about progressivism. It doesn’t matter what religion you are. If we allow progressivism to enter our minds then thats when our freedoms vanish.
Also it’s funny to me how pagans are so afraid of Christianity. You among many other religions distort true Christianity. Most of the “evil Christianity” you’re referring to is created by catholicism. FYI catholicism is NOT true Christianity. Also Christians aren’t perfect, pagans aren’t perfect, jews aren’t perfect. We are ALL human and therefore non perfect.
Its so funny how you people try to defy christianity. Look around the world, look at yourself. Some of the largest human rights organizations around the world have christian values. If it wasn’t for groups like these many more children in Africa would be going hungry, many homes built for the homeless would not be, etc.
Christianity teaches us to love our enemy like they were our neighbor. No where in our Holy Bible does it say “kill because they are not like us”. That is the actions and words of man, ANY man.



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mouseytalons

posted September 7, 2010 at 8:06 pm


Hi All
I agree that General petraus’ comments were inflamitory at the very least. I also agree that General Petraus WAS violating the first ammendment rights of the Dove World Outreach Church.
Yes, Burning the Quoran may cause more violence in an already violent war half-way around the world. I also see some very interresting connections to the “book burnings” of the early years of this country, to this “burning the Quoran” thing.
1) Both “book burnings” were instigated by “religious” radicals.
2)In both cases, these “radicals” believed theirs was the only way to “cleanse” the problem.
As to General Petraus’ Comments, and Dove Worldwide Outreaches proposed actions, all I can say is it sounds very familiar with what happened with the “Salem Witch Hunts”. My personal feeling is that this is another, much bigger version of the “witch hunt”. I realize muslims are NOT witches, but it still follows the same principal.
My suggestion for a peaceful resolution of this whole mess is very simple: Learn about eachother’s beliefs, and try to focus on the similarities, NOT the differences! Easy enough, huh?
Blessings



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Marlon C. Hartshorn

posted September 7, 2010 at 8:11 pm


Progressivism is a political attitude according to Wikipedia, not a reason to justify imperialism and wholesale murder inhabitants of a specific land. Jacqueline, you obviously have never read the Bible, because it does in fact condone violent actions. Also, lots of people post here, not just Pagans. I am not afraid of Christianity at all. I think it’s perfectly fine, so long as people are sane and rational about what they are doing. Catholicism is a form of Christianity. There is no such thing as “true” Christianity, in the terms you are speaking of. You sound like a religious fanatic who doesn’t read, is anti-intellectual and probably you’re anti-gay and anti-feminism. To each his own, but you should learn to respect other people and not start spouting off nonsense. Go back & study your Spanish, French and British colonialism in the Americas, I’m not gonna provide a lengthy history lessen for you, relating to Native Americans. Ever wonder why most of Latin America and South America are predominantly Catholic? Because of Spain’s imperialism & their Christian beliefs. What about the Holy Wars? What about Charlemagne’s battles for Christ and Christianity? U should read that book too, Jacqueline, Pagans in the Promised Land, but I’m sure you never will. Your kind doesn’t like to read.



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Hecate Demetersdatter

posted September 7, 2010 at 8:45 pm


Gus,
You are spot on.



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Cheryl Hill

posted September 7, 2010 at 10:14 pm


Jacqueline, of course I know burning a cross has nothing to do with religion. Neither does putting up a noose. Both are hate crimes against a racial group. I was asking if THIS action – burning Korans – could be considered a hate crime against a religious group.



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Sarenth

posted September 8, 2010 at 1:02 am


Gus -I’m not exactly sure on what you’re disagreeing with me on. Can you clarify, please?



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Gus diZerega

posted September 8, 2010 at 1:36 am


Jacqueline-
From the very beginning PROTESTANT settlers in New England used Old Testament accounts of Israel murdering and dispossessing earlier Pagan inhabitants of the “promised land” to justify murdering and dispossessing the Pagan Indians, beginning in Massachusetts with the Pequots who had helped the ignorant settlers survive. (See story of Squanto.) Protestants were responsible for most deliberate Indian murders in the name of religion in the US – as Catholics were in South America. Both have plenty of blood on their hands.
Pagans have very very good reasons to be afraid of those strutting about calling themselves “Christians” be they Protestant or Catholic except for those who have become spiritually aware enough to grasp that no God worth worshipping would provide only one way to “salvation.” They have killed in the past, and some kill today while others cheer them on.
Progressivism did not exist for hundreds of years after the Pequots and many other tribes were exterminated or dispossessed. It arose in the early 20th century and was responsible for many things both good and bad, but deliberate murder of Indian – no.
American history is very interesting, but to the best of my knowledge there is NO competent account that supports your notion of “progressivism.” Perhaps you can tell me what you mean by it and where you learned what you know of it.
As to Christian values – those of real value are universal values. As the last Pagan emperor of Rome wrote, other than the command about the Sabbath and worshipping only one god, no civilized place on earth does not make similar demands to not murder, steal, lie, etc. What you demonstrate with your spiritual arrogance is a lack of knowledge about what other people really believe. It is that arrogance that has led so many Christians so many time to kill, rob, and oppress others.



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Gus diZerega

posted September 8, 2010 at 1:39 am


Sarenth- I misread your last paragraph in your previous post. My apologies.



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Sarenth

posted September 8, 2010 at 3:55 am


-Gus: No problem. Thanks for responding!
-Jacqueline: If symbols of other faiths were burnt into the lawns of black people and if Biblical passages were not used to condone the behavior of organizations like the KKK it WOULD be about race and not religion thrown into the mix. However, there have been no ‘burning Star of David” or “burning Ohm” or “burning pentacle” used by the KKK and their ilk. They only use the cross. It is a form of racial and religious violence against another human being because the oppression is wrapped in the guise of religion executed against religious and racial minorities.
Christianity had EVERYTHING to do with the extermination and assimilation of Native Americans. Christianity was the largest driving force, as it backed up the landgrabbing and death that followed colonization efforts. The Wordnet Princeton Dictionary defines progressivism as “the political orientation of those who favor progress toward better conditions in government and society”.
The Online Dictionary of the Social Sciences website further blasts apart your assertions about progressivism, stating:
“A political philosophy characterizing American society from approximately 1890 to 1920. Set against decades of expansion and growth, progressives became acutely aware of the price paid for this development in terms of inequality and social problems. To address these they called for policy committed to social justice and social democracy. They found new sympathy for the poor, for minorities, and for women and children. To address the needs of these peoples it saw a need for a strong central government and increasing regulation of many segments of the business world. These attitudes about the role of the state are sometimes referred to as ‘progressive liberalism’ (in contrast to classical liberalism). ”
Why is the fear funny to you? Why do you take pleasure in discomfort of others? Would you like to be made afraid and made fun of? If not, then why do you do it?
There is no ‘true Christianity’. This is a myth. When Christianity first organized, there were so many sects that it was hard to keep the narratives surrounding Jesus Christ straight. The Catholic Church eventually provided the codification that you see in much of Christianity now. It takes only a cursory look at the history of Christianity to see the evolution of the faith from a multitude of interpretations, i.e. Catholic, Gnostic sects, Pagan Mystery religion combined with the worship of Christ, etc., into a singular understanding of the religion when it was codified by the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The fact there are apocryphal texts speaks to this multitude of understanding.
If you are referring to Christianity in the modern sense as being its ‘true form’, we Pagans need to do nothing to distort Christianity. When pastors rail against homosexuals while having their own homosexual relations, when Christians raise hues and cries for tolerance and understanding of their faith and provide none to others, when Christians declare and execute spiritual warfare on non-Christian faiths and then cry victim when they are lashed out against in the public square, there need be no distortion.
Further, if no human is perfect then likewise, no religion is perfect, and it follows there can be no ‘true Christianity’ because of the limitations of your ability to execute the requirements of your faith, if for no small reason than your interpretation of what those requirements even are change person to person.
“Christianity teaches us to love our enemy like they were our neighbor. No where in our Holy Bible does it say “kill because they are not like us”. That is the actions and words of man, ANY man.”
Actually according to what I have read and was taught when I was a Catholic, you were to love your enemy as yourself: “Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (KJV)” If you are to “love thy neighbor as thyself” then it follows you are to love all with equal love like you would have yourself be treated.
Your assertion that the Bible does not tell you to kill does not wash, look here:
“If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he can not be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26 NAB)
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household’”. (Matthew 10:34-36 NAB)
There are many, many more quotes in The Old Testament, but I thought it apt to quote from the New Testament. How can you keep up such doubletalk when your own Holy Book does not support your words?



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The L

posted September 8, 2010 at 8:59 am


@Jacqueline: As an ex-Catholic, I assure you, Catholics are Christian. They’re just Christians with a powerful clerical hierarchy and a fondness for statuary.



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Sarah

posted September 8, 2010 at 9:29 am


I used to live in Gainesville, FL. These are the loonies who demonstrate outside of UF with signs like “You’re going to hell” and “Gays = Satan” But, it’s not like anyone even pays much attention to them. Maybe that’s why Jones decided to pull this stunt…After all, the whole fire and brimstone burning in hell this is so passe.



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Ali

posted September 8, 2010 at 3:23 pm


Gus, I just wanted to let you know that I linked to this post in my recent post on Pagan+Politics, “The Legacy of 9/11: Thoughts on the “Ground Zero Mosque,” Burning the Qur’an, and the Buddhist Floating Lantern Ceremony” – http://politics.pagannewswirecollective.com/?p=913
I would very much like to hear your take on what I wrote, so I hope you make your way over there to read it and maybe leave a response.



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mouseytalons

posted September 8, 2010 at 6:23 pm


Ali,
Thank You for your post, and your sentiments in your article @ Pagan & Politcs. Your version of the last line of my post which said:
“My suggestion to this whole mess is learn about eachother’s beliefs and focus on the similarities, NOT the differences. Easy enough. Huh?” is much more eloquent. I will be burning a candle in rememberance of those that have lost their lives on 9/11, and our soldiers who were lost or wounded in the 9 years since.
Blessings.



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Gus diZerega

posted September 8, 2010 at 6:45 pm


It’s a wonderful post Ali- I urge all my readers to go there and read it. Read it slowly, savor the words and even more the spirit the words call forth.



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Makarios

posted September 8, 2010 at 7:01 pm


From the “Talk to Action” blog:
After being contacted by scores of its active duty military clients asking the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) to do something in response to Terry Jones’s planned “Burn A Koran Day,” MRFF has decided that the most appropriate response would not be to try to stop Jones, but to donate to the Afghan National Army, as a gesture of good will and a statement of opposition to this entirely un-American act of religious bigotry, a new Qur’an for each one destroyed by Jones and his followers.
A full-page ad to this effect is being placed in the Gainesville Sun.
More at http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/9/8/131242/3325/Front_Page/MRFF_To_Donate_a_New_Qur_an_to_Afghan_Army_for_Every_One_Destroyed_by_Jones



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Peter Dybing

posted September 10, 2010 at 10:34 am


911 Ritual for Tolerance and Remembrance
Many in our community have expressed shock and dismay at the trend towards religious intolerance that has developed as the anniversary of 911 approaches. As a response, the following short ritual is provided as a way that we can express our collective intent for a peaceful and tolerant world on September 11, 2010.
In calling the quarters and inviting the Lord and the Lady care should be taken to summon deities and energies that represent openness, compassion, understanding, knowledge etc.
Items needed
One bowl
Tea lights
Five candles
Small pieces of paper
Small piece of string
On a table or altar, place the bowl in the center, place the candles at five equal points around the bowl to be lit as each blessing is brought forward. Around the five points place a circle of tea lights; each will represent one of the world’s religions. Write the names of world religions on the small pieces of paper to correspond with the number of tea lights placed.
All present are asked to begin by invoking the divine to be present. (Quiet contemplation). Then start lighting the candles.
“This Candle of Tolerance is kindled in support of all who believe that love and acceptance are gifts of the divine. May the Goddess bless them with compassion and patience.”
“This Candle of Understanding is kindled for all those who seek interfaith cooperation. May the Goddess bless them with courage in their ideals and success in their efforts.”
“This Candle of Unity is kindled for all who seek the divine in its many manifestations. May understanding of divinity bring unity in seeking the freedom for all to worship as they choose”.
“This Candle of Peace is kindled for those who respond with trust, kindness and charity when faced with anger, suspicion, and misunderstanding. May the Goddess bless them with eloquence. and protect them from harm”
This candle of Remembrance is kindled for all who have been lost in religious conflict. May their sacrifice be the altar upon which the world builds a tradition of Tolerance, Understanding, Unity, and Peace. May the Goddess bless the journeys of those we have lost.
So Mote It Be
Ritual Leader
Goddess and God we place now the names of many of the great traditions of divinity at the center of our ritual and our intent. May they practice their faiths in a meaningful way. May they all enjoy the freedom to worship the Divine as the please. May they go forward in Tolerance, Understanding, Unity, Peace, and Remembrance?
(Participants step forward, read the name of a faith and place it in the bowl and then kindle a corresponding tea light)
Ritual Leader, collect the pieces of paper from the bowl and tie them together with a string.
“ May this binding represent a new commitment on the part of all traditions to manifest their faith in the forms of Tolerance, Understanding, Unity, Peace and Remembrance.
So Mote It Be



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Rinatasoki

posted October 4, 2010 at 1:10 am


По данным Soki.tv Первый раз столкнулась с такой ситуацией. Я 2 года встречалась с парнем(Егором), потом мы расстались, но суть не в этом. Буквально через 2 дня я встречаю молодого человека (Сашу)и понимаю – это ОН! мне 21 год, в следствии этого не подумайте, что мне кто то тупо вскружил голову и тд. Во время второй встречи он предлагант встречаться, на третью везет знакомиться к родителям, как говориться у нас все круто и замечательно. Самое главное, что последний год отношений с моим предыдущим парнем я пыталась с ним расстаться, но не могла, как будто веревкой была к нему привязана, а здесь неделя – и я даже ни разу не вспомнила про него. Суть в том, что в последние 2 месяца моих отношений с бывшим у меня началось какое-то воспаление, что я благополучно списала на банальную молочницу и поход ко врачу отложила на обозримое время.После знакомства с Сашей сходила и выяснила, что у меня молочница и повышенное количество лейкоцитов, в принципе ничего страшного, купила лекарств и урезонилась. Когда через 2 недели отношения с Сашей перешли к интимным, он звонит на отпечаток день и говорит, что у него ТАМ сыпь, зуд и тд. Он в свою очередь идет ко врачу, и ему ставят диагноз:трихмонада. Оказывается, это и есть повышенное кол-во лейкоцитов. ИТОГ: Во-первых выходит, что егор мне изменил, во-вторых я боюсь, что отношения с Сашей испорчены на корню – что он сейчас обо мне думает, я не знаю.Я сталкиваюсь с чем то аналогичным первый раз. Как мне верно сейчас себя вести с Сашей?
К стати меня можно найти и в поисковых системах по нику Rinata Pi7



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Rinatasoki

posted October 4, 2010 at 9:29 pm


Интересный факт на Soki.tv Зачитываюсь в данный момент сборником стихов с замысловатым названием “Книга, из-за коей объединились поэты, объединить коих невполне вероятно”.
Тут и классики, и новые имена: Окуджава, Ахмадуллина, Диана Арбенина и многие другие…
Каждый вечер, засыпая, читаю по стишку, и утром просыпаюсь, незамедлительно за книжку… И весь день будто летаю, счастливая)))) Может, в этом кроется секрет красоты, а, женщины?)))
Читайте стихи и будете такими же счастливыми и привлекательными, как я в данный момент!!
К стати меня можно найти и в поисковых системах по нику Rinata Pi7



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Gus diZerega

posted October 5, 2010 at 1:42 am


Your posts seem too long to be spam, but I do not read Russian. (My book in Russian was translated.)
Your posts are probably incomprehensible to my readers – they certainly are to me. How is your English?



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habib arti

posted March 18, 2011 at 1:16 pm


Thanks for saying so, i need some time to think about this. I have just got interested in blogging and hopefully i am able to do so



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