What do you believe?
tr1nity
I wanted to add a few thoughts I have had on the struggle with ego.
Dealing with the intentional hiding of failures and lack of true reflection on them, I believe that tanha actually encourages this activity as it increases the connection we have to this world. The ego is both increasing itself and using the increase to discourage any wish to decrease. It's the initiating power that directs one to the path that must overcome this initial problem otherwise you are caught in the ego cycle with no self will to escape it.
(cont.)
1/13/2004 11:12:37 AM
cont. from below:I wanted to add a few thoughts I have had on the struggle with ego.
Dealing with the intentional hiding of failures and lack of true reflection on them, I believe that tanha actually encourages this activity as it increases the connection we have to this world. The ego is both increasing itself and using the increase to discourage any wish to decrease. It's the initiating power that directs one to the path that must overcome this initial problem otherwise you are caught in the ego cycle with no self will to escape it.
(cont.)
tr1nity
Tanha works in the subjective realm and guards the ego so therefore once again we are left trapped unless something other overpowers the tanha. My search has dealt with this force that reveals dukkha despite the tanha.
1/13/2004 11:12:27 AM
Dukkha must take form in the life of the seeker before they become a seeker, but tanha struggles against even the recognition of this. Certain environments can effect the experience of dukkha, but ultimately it's the subjective experience that accepts or rejects its existence.Tanha works in the subjective realm and guards the ego so therefore once again we are left trapped unless something other overpowers the tanha. My search has dealt with this force that reveals dukkha despite the tanha.
tr1nity
"When you say “without the living Jesus, that you cannot know forgiveness…” do you mean the literal figure of Jesus Christ, or what the Christ points to….the ineffable presence of God and his majesty within us."
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(cont.)
1/13/2004 10:13:04 AM
moreau wrote:"When you say “without the living Jesus, that you cannot know forgiveness…” do you mean the literal figure of Jesus Christ, or what the Christ points to….the ineffable presence of God and his majesty within us."
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(cont.)
tr1nity
Well (that's a deep subject btw) I believe that the historic Jesus of Nazareth is the living son of God, the redeemer of the world and the saviour of us all. The salvation of which I speak is from the death brought to us by the original sin.
My argument was that without forgiveness being accepted in the heart in truth, I believe you cannot truly know your weaknesses. It's knowledge of your weakness that allows you to grow into the likeness of God, but the knowledge of these failures must be accepted. Being left without the concept of forgiveness leaves us to the path, do you understand? We are measured, or even measure ourselves in respect to this path. Let's pretend that the people around us measured us according to how "good" we were(which they do) The idea of what is good differs a bit within cultures, but the idea of being measured is the same.
(cont.)
1/13/2004 10:12:53 AM
Well (that's a deep subject btw) I believe that the historic Jesus of Nazareth is the living son of God, the redeemer of the world and the saviour of us all. The salvation of which I speak is from the death brought to us by the original sin.
My argument was that without forgiveness being accepted in the heart in truth, I believe you cannot truly know your weaknesses. It's knowledge of your weakness that allows you to grow into the likeness of God, but the knowledge of these failures must be accepted. Being left without the concept of forgiveness leaves us to the path, do you understand? We are measured, or even measure ourselves in respect to this path. Let's pretend that the people around us measured us according to how "good" we were(which they do) The idea of what is good differs a bit within cultures, but the idea of being measured is the same.
(cont.)
tr1nity
In this environment they would certainly be tempted to lie even to themselves so as to justify their acts with a self defined framework that pleases those around them and makes it easier for them to consider themselves still on the path.
Long story short, I believe left to the self we will fall to the temptation of self deception and ultimately accomplish nothing. Forigiveness comes in to play as the centering force, once accepted fully in the heart in faith, it places your feet on the path, defeats tanha and allows you to experience God at the moment it is realized.
(cont.)
1/13/2004 10:12:36 AM
If you are left to the path, you will fail from time to time. Some of us more than others. If our ego's were not invested in the path (pass or fail) then our ego's would be affected by the judgements of others(Tanha is constantly struggling to fill the ego). It's in this area that I believe the individual left without forgiveness from above would intentionally hide their failures. In this environment they would certainly be tempted to lie even to themselves so as to justify their acts with a self defined framework that pleases those around them and makes it easier for them to consider themselves still on the path.
Long story short, I believe left to the self we will fall to the temptation of self deception and ultimately accomplish nothing. Forigiveness comes in to play as the centering force, once accepted fully in the heart in faith, it places your feet on the path, defeats tanha and allows you to experience God at the moment it is realized.
(cont.)
tr1nity
The difference, as I'm sure you can see, is that revelation of the divine is what starts the walking on the path in Christianity rather than using the path as a means to discover the divine as in Buddhism.
The question I had was how do you honestly keep your feet on the path with little more than a mysterious unknown as your guide? What use is compassion and goodness if these were not self fulfilling? What if you had to sacrifice to give them as gifts to another? What use is that if the path has left you without its name? For some a mysterous unknown is enough to at least try it out, but I bet vey few go through the fires of true self sacrifice in order to see if the fruit is as good as they heard about. Without a living God I cannot see how anyone but the most morbid could possibly fully turn from the now and leave this world for the next on their own.
1/13/2004 10:12:18 AM
Jesus comes in as He is the only person that offers this forgiveness to us.The difference, as I'm sure you can see, is that revelation of the divine is what starts the walking on the path in Christianity rather than using the path as a means to discover the divine as in Buddhism.
The question I had was how do you honestly keep your feet on the path with little more than a mysterious unknown as your guide? What use is compassion and goodness if these were not self fulfilling? What if you had to sacrifice to give them as gifts to another? What use is that if the path has left you without its name? For some a mysterous unknown is enough to at least try it out, but I bet vey few go through the fires of true self sacrifice in order to see if the fruit is as good as they heard about. Without a living God I cannot see how anyone but the most morbid could possibly fully turn from the now and leave this world for the next on their own.
moreau
Unfortunately, many torch bearers do not practice such a frighteningly honest approach, for they will see the slim threads of their delusions unravel.
1/13/2004 8:40:29 AM
Once one has stabilized the mind, one directly “looks” at thoughts, emotions, pain, pleasure, beliefs, physical sensations, with the intent of neither rejecting nor accepting, but seeing them in the light of which they appear. As passing, transitory, illusory phenomena. And with this training, one then is not subject to the delusions of the mind which arise in daily life.Unfortunately, many torch bearers do not practice such a frighteningly honest approach, for they will see the slim threads of their delusions unravel.
moreau
And once again, I’m telling you this is a mistaken view on your part.
There is no attempt to escape psychic pain: The practice of true Buddhist meditation is actually the opposite. Emotions and thoughts, which is what I assume you mean by psychic pain, are perceived directly with courage and honesty.
1/13/2004 8:40:10 AM
Buddhism sacrifices holistic brain functioning to escape psychic pain-pure and simple and it is no more desirable than the Brave New World's soma drug to keep the people mellow and thoughtless..And once again, I’m telling you this is a mistaken view on your part.
There is no attempt to escape psychic pain: The practice of true Buddhist meditation is actually the opposite. Emotions and thoughts, which is what I assume you mean by psychic pain, are perceived directly with courage and honesty.
moreau
In Gnosticism, there is a reference to the False God who has imprisoned Man in delusion, cutting him off from gnosis/wisdom and causing man to worship him. Men who claim to hold title to the True God, are often under the sway of such dark, powerful forces. They are plagued with psychotic nightmares, which they then offer to the world as the Truth. These torch bearers have been with us since recorded history.
Wake up while there’s still time.
1/12/2004 11:50:31 PM
(cont)In Gnosticism, there is a reference to the False God who has imprisoned Man in delusion, cutting him off from gnosis/wisdom and causing man to worship him. Men who claim to hold title to the True God, are often under the sway of such dark, powerful forces. They are plagued with psychotic nightmares, which they then offer to the world as the Truth. These torch bearers have been with us since recorded history.
Wake up while there’s still time.
moreau
Those who speak of End Times, whether wearing sandwich boards on Times Square, or bleating through Evangelical television to the poor and ignorant, are misguided souls, filled with the rush of the neurotic delusion of the torch bearer.
Look at what is really happening. At every moment your life is dissolving. Everything is slipping through our fingers. God is the openness in which all this is floating. The great expanse. Any voice, or idea, or “vision,” or name one tries to place on this Vastness of Pure Being, is misperception. Yes, the End Times are coming. They’re here. Always. Now. And Now.
1/12/2004 11:50:04 PM
The End Times are always here. Every moment. Eternity is the End Time. Those who speak of End Times, whether wearing sandwich boards on Times Square, or bleating through Evangelical television to the poor and ignorant, are misguided souls, filled with the rush of the neurotic delusion of the torch bearer.
Look at what is really happening. At every moment your life is dissolving. Everything is slipping through our fingers. God is the openness in which all this is floating. The great expanse. Any voice, or idea, or “vision,” or name one tries to place on this Vastness of Pure Being, is misperception. Yes, the End Times are coming. They’re here. Always. Now. And Now.