What do you believe?
im4M
6/30/2000 3:02:03 PM
Programmer, glitch alert. It's unlikely anybody bothers to read anything that requires scrolling a half inch to the right for each line. Thank you for shopping at Kmart.
Thummin
6/30/2000 12:18:29 PM
If the Rambam saw Christianity (and Muslims) as a preperation for Kingdom of God to come to earth as it is in heaven, then what has kept many Jews from seeing it??? The spirit of Moshiach has not come to them as it has to the Rambam and the sages. Only the spirit of Moshiach can lighten the inner man to the truth. Here God alone has control over who sees and doesnt see and who is given this wonderful gift of the LIGHT of Moshiach. Jesus said only the Father could reveal Moshiach. you cant force people to believe in him or to accept him. He is a gift of the father to his sons. Moshiach is actually the making of a son (Yechida). So the last comment, "you tak Jesus, I'll take God" is great. YES TAKE GOD. For only if you take God, who is the GOD of Israel and the Jew, will you see and understand anything at all he wants to reveal about both religions. There is ONLY DIVISION without God. UNITY is Gods trademark, for he is ONE and his name is ONE.
Thummin
6/30/2000 12:12:57 PM
Yes the idea, the vain idea, the horribly deceived idea that God would get rid of one group in favor over another has permeated Christianity, but its roots are in Judaism...ie "chosen", favorite, we are Gods and we alone, concept. No one understands chosen and if they did they wouldnt want to be chosen. But I have to say, NO GROUP will survive but Gods Kingdom. YHVH willl be KING in that day over the whole earth. HURRY God hurry. WE need you so much. Please oh God come back to us all. I scream, let every man do that for which he is called or chosen to do. Dont waste another minute. WE need our KING revealed.
Thummin
6/30/2000 12:09:33 PM
I see the cross today as the "SIGN" the Jews are waiting for since the CROSS is the symbol of matter. It is the 50th gate of Pentecost to get to the UPPER WORLDS. You cant get to the DIVINE till you die to the beast. The door was a very painful entrance for me. I Only wish I had understood some of these things beforehand. Yet no one talked about them cause no one understands them.
Thummin
6/30/2000 12:06:41 PM
The biggest comment which is the most touchy to me is "only saved through Jesus". I have to qualify here that this was nonsense to me as a Christian. I couldnt ever believe that although I clung to Jesus with all my heart and mind. I still believed God had to be able to save outside of Jesus, especially because Paul said all Israel will be saved. How could that be if they were going to hell without Jesus. NO I never bought that,but then I had my Jewish experience and whoaaa. (p.s. I didnt believe in the cross as a significant point to belabor either).I had no REAL opinion about the cross but ot IGNORE it. Well when I saw Jesus on the cross during Yom Kippur of 92 in a vision and it saved me from that terrible dark anihilation I was experiencing from Tisha B'Av to Yom Kippur, I understood what Jesus meant about the serpent lifted up and how all eyes will see him and MOURN for him as a mother (Israel) mourns for her ONLY BEGOTTEN SON (YECHIDA). I will explain that more later.
Thummin
6/30/2000 12:01:31 PM
The comment about Jesus not being interested in pubic justice is a little bit off since the last 2000 years have been about his teachings and that includes political interpretations. I see far too much interference in the public rather than too little. Jesus was interested in his FATHERS KINGDOM, the malkut of God. He came to bring us the WAY to that Kingdom and how the law will be fulfilled in that Kingdom by becoming one with him as he is ONE with his father. NO more presumptuous than any Rabbi has been in teaching Talmud or Halacha. Jesus came first to the LOST tribes of Israel because they were LOST from Judaism. He has been bringing Israel back to God for a long time. Israel had to become as numerous as the sands of the sea and stars in the heavens. God kept Judah at home with this unbelievable BURDEN of keeping the law till Shiloah comes to the individual so the LAW could WITNESS to them. Without Jews, there would be no second witness or law of God to help us. God Bless the Jew.
Thummin
6/30/2000 11:56:00 AM
The next comment I am addressing is how Judaism has kept clean boundaries between the human and divine. Yes you have and that is your calling. To keep the law-chaqaq between your feet-foundation, till Shiloah comes. But, you have overdone it too as the Christian has presumed way too much about the DIVINE in their "vain imaginations". In your desire not to be presumptous about God, you have ignored spiritual leanings which might have helped you find God sooner by doing teshuvah sooner. When you wait for mankind to give you the OK< you are not behaving as Abraham and the prophets. The reason Judaism is losing many to other "cults" as you call it, is because they want SPIRITUAL food, and not just the human regulations without spiritual understanding. I read your Torah Parshas and weep over the deep profound spirituality hidden in them. I talk to Jews and they don't see these things. They only see what they are TOLD to see.
Thummin
6/30/2000 11:47:27 AM
My heart breaks over the innocent lives lost over the thousands of years but after my experience, I not only know God is completely righteous in all his ways and doings,but that everyone will get their just rewards. Here is where I see the Jew as confused as the Christian. The christian has trouble seeing how limited his views of the BIBLE really are and the Jew has trouble seeing how little control they believe their God has over this world. You can't believe God is all powerful and yet blame the whole world for everything when God is the creator. God is calling his ISRAEL to TESHUVAH NOW. He has been doing so for awhile but this is really the time and this is really the hour. REPENT so you can pick up the pieces of all those who will need your absolute light in the millineum to come. Dont waste another minute. Jesus only did what he heard and saw his father do, he said. God is in control over Jesus.
Thummin
6/30/2000 11:42:04 AM
The Rabbis who you say criticised Jesus who deftly expounded the prophets, sort of made me laugh a bit. I am ashamed. Sorry.OF course Jesus expounded the prophets and the law and MOSES and the TORAH. He embodied them in his life to SHOW THEIR UNITY. God is one and his name is ONE. Jesus more than any other showed this unity of where God is taking us all. TO BE ONE with is law. I have room for the "second coming" comment here too. He is coming. He came to me in 92 on Yom Kippur. God said "after two days" I will lift them up (Jesus said IF I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me) and God said the third day they will STAND in my sight. I was lifted up with the serpent lifted up.IT is the crucifixtion the Christians are always talking about. IT is the owth, sign, signal,banner, NEC God lifts up against the ENEMY. THE yetzer hora or evil inclination.
carlisle
In that spirit we rely less on the opinions of others, and more on the direct experience with God. This is the foundation on which faith rests and is strong. As a Buddhist monk once said, there is nothing wrong with theory except that it is endless.
I cannot prove to you I am right. I can only suggest that you prove to yourself if I am right or wrong. Enter this with an open mind and I am confident that God will do the rest.
Thank you.
6/30/2000 11:41:22 AM
Part IIIn that spirit we rely less on the opinions of others, and more on the direct experience with God. This is the foundation on which faith rests and is strong. As a Buddhist monk once said, there is nothing wrong with theory except that it is endless.
I cannot prove to you I am right. I can only suggest that you prove to yourself if I am right or wrong. Enter this with an open mind and I am confident that God will do the rest.
Thank you.
carlisle
I am compelled to restate that what ever the backgrounds of the Nazi's is or was, is no statement about the truth of Christianity. No serious study of scripture could lead one to conclude that we must hate Jews. In fact as others have pointed out, Jews are God's chosen people. As such I have a great respect for their place in God's plan. As I am sure most serious Christians would.
A further study of scripture, both old and new testaments would also reveal that while we may witness to others about our faith, we are fully cognizant of the fact that not all will accept it. The fact that our message is rejected by most is in fact consistent with what the Bible teaches. This includes rejection by our Jewish brothers.
When you know that we see it as the Fathers job to save, and ours only to witness, perhaps you will see the true spirit through which we enter this debate. For those who do not believe to appeal to the same God we are all trying to reach.
continued...
6/30/2000 11:40:47 AM
Polish Celt - I am compelled to restate that what ever the backgrounds of the Nazi's is or was, is no statement about the truth of Christianity. No serious study of scripture could lead one to conclude that we must hate Jews. In fact as others have pointed out, Jews are God's chosen people. As such I have a great respect for their place in God's plan. As I am sure most serious Christians would.
A further study of scripture, both old and new testaments would also reveal that while we may witness to others about our faith, we are fully cognizant of the fact that not all will accept it. The fact that our message is rejected by most is in fact consistent with what the Bible teaches. This includes rejection by our Jewish brothers.
When you know that we see it as the Fathers job to save, and ours only to witness, perhaps you will see the true spirit through which we enter this debate. For those who do not believe to appeal to the same God we are all trying to reach.
continued...
Thummin
6/30/2000 11:37:53 AM
When Jesus withered the fig tree, it is symbolic of him destroying the TREE of knowledge of good and evil and saying, after he does this NO FRUIT will ever grow on it again. Adam made aprons of those leaves but they were temporary. John the BABTIST said the MESSIAH would PLUCK up the TREE from its root and Isaiah 14 shows us from this tree of the adder would come forth a fiery flying serpent. Jesus said when YOU SEE the serpent lifted up (as Moses held it up in the wilderness) you will know I am who I said I am. I saw that serpent on Yom Kippur of 92. I know exactly who Jesus is but no one will really know him till that moment. THAT IS THE way of the KNOWING.