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Geocorona
4/8/2005 11:02 AM
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5 out of 13 |
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It's also fine to believe that certain things taught to youth as rigid realities are actually symbolic.
The first mistake when realizing the symbolism is to think of them as "only symbolic". Later, one discovers that they're actually "profoundly symbolic".
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rsikh59
4/8/2005 11:13 AM
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6 out of 13 |
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WJKK WJKF
Kuljit Singh,
You start out by asking for help and in the end essentially all you are asking if you are a Sikh or not based on some of your views here.
Your first statement that you are born a Sikh is erroneous. No one is born a Sikh. You may be born into a family that practices Sikhi. In order to be a Sikh, one has to follow the Guru. I am sure no one does that right after they are born. Its something that the parents should teach their children, should they wish the children to follow the Guru's path. Have you tried talking to your parents, now that you are an adult?
Why is it important to you that you wish to be considered a Sikh? Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is now available on line and in an English transtlation. The Sikh is very distinctly described there. SGGS Ji page 305 :
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord`s Name
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord`s Name
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru`s Mind
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru`s Teachings are bestowed
Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it.
Since you say you are inclined scientifically, the Guru has given you the formula. Are you following the instructions closely? Or you have not even begun the experiment? Note also the last line the humility of the Guru and the respect and position the Guru gives to a Gursikh.
Since you are an adult now, what is stopping you from learning Gurmukhi? It is easy to say that one is a Sikh, but difficult to follow. It is even harder to tread the path of a Gursikh. Being a true Khalsa can only be done with the support of the Naam.
>> I adamantly refuse to fear God, although I’m in awe of God, ......<<
What do you know about God to be in a state of awe? The Guru writes quite a bit about Fear of God.
SGGS Ji page 54 "One who does not fear God shall live in fear; without the Guru, there is only pitch darkness. "
SGGS Ji page 57 "I searched and searched, and found God. In the Fear of God, I have been united in His Union. "
SGGS Ji page 149 "But those who do not have the Fear of God, are overtaken by fear. They are destroyed by their own pride."
SGGS Ji page 151 "Without the Fear of God, no one crosses over the world-ocean. "
SGGS Ji page 151 "This Fear of God adorns the Love of the Lord "
SGGS Ji page 151 "Place the Fear of God within the home of your heart; with this Fear of God in your heart, all other fears shall be frightened away. "
>> Big one here: I don’t believe in an afterlife <<
Most of what the Guru says has to do with what you do in this life, here and now. The Guru speaks about other lives, many different incarnations and also many different worlds. That stuff is for those who may be further along the path. If you cannot even see the path the Guru has lit, I would not worry too much about the afterlife.
>> think people who need a promise of an eternal bliss to do good are selfish <<
Don't worry about eternal bliss. That is like a child who have not even passed grade school trying to talk about a PhD research project. Eternal bliss comes as a result of being a Gursikh and uniting with God. How many do you think exist in such a state?
continued.....
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rsikh59
4/8/2005 11:16 AM
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7 out of 13 |
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.....continued,
>>.. that you should just do good acts for the sake of your world,...<<
What power do you have to do good or bad? Do you feel that the world needs you to do good? Who is the doer?
>> You do them for your children and your brothers and sisters. <<
That is a lot of possessives that you have used here. What about others children, brothers, and sisters?
>> I don’t believe in the 5 K’s, or the necessity of them. <<
This was ordained by the Guru. The Guru said that he establised the Khalsa Panth according to WaheGuru's wishes. What you believe or don't believe is only of consequence to you. Again, the Guru has laid out a path. If you wish to be His Sikh, then you have to tread on it.
>> If you can have the meanings of them in your soul, what is the use of having them on your body? <<
Have you already internalized their meaning in your soul? Last time I checked, I could not find any great sant-sipahi who had done it any other way. Even today, those few true sants all are amritdhari.
>> For the most part in Sikh religion, it seems to just be a big distraction and just a way to be different....<<
In this one sentence, you essentially have said that you know better than the Guru. And you are asking to know if you are a Sikh. Do you have any sense at all as to how many Sikhs died just because they did not want to cut their hair and disobey the Guru? How many men, women, and children? They could all have said that is just a big distraction and preserved their lives. Apparently, following the Gurus Hukum was more important to them. By saying it is just a way to be different trivializes their sacrifices and triviliazes the Guru's actions. You may say that it is a big distraction to you. Please do not presume to speak for the entire Sikh Panth.
continued.....
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rsikh59
4/8/2005 11:20 AM
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8 out of 13 |
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.....continued,
>>..which leaves us from our real goal of becoming one with God <<
Lets see. Following the Gurus Hukum is a way to keep you from realizing your goal from becoming one with God. If you know a better path, you are always welcomed to follow it. BTW, becoming 'one with God' is not really the immediate goal of a GurSikh.
>> I believe that ritual can help you realize meaning, but if you have the meaning down ritual is useless. <<
The Guru did not say all rituals are useless. It is not a useless ritual to wake up before the crack of dawn to meditate on the Naam. Please share with us any meaning that you have down so that we too can learn.
>> Like, I really don’t believe that we should treat the material book SGGS as a person, only that the words that come from it should be taken as words from a Guru. <<
Gursikhs treat the Bani as Guru, not ink on paper or even the flesh and bone. Respect is given to the vessel that contains the Bani. In SGGS Ji, it is clearly stated that the Bani is Guru and Guru is the Bani.
>> I’m really mad at these guys who are trying to use violence to make a Khalistan nation, ....<<
This is a faith discussion site. The Khalistan issue is more a political issue and will take us into a discussion away from the main point that you raised.
>> (Plus, didn’t Gandhi and MLK teach us anything?). <<
Did not the lives and teachings of the Gurus not teach you anything? You will find armed resistance, non violent resistance, acceptance of God's will, fighting for the freedom to worship as you see fit, forgiving and embracing those who strike at you, uplifting a beaten down mentality, etc, etc.....
>> I’m a man of science, because I believe science is our attempt to figure out God. <<
I had always thought that science was a way to figure out how nature worked. The Gurus have already laid out what God wants. Why bother to figure out how God works. That is presuming too much of ourselves. Only God knows how God works.
>> If something from a holy book contradicts science...<<
Holy books are about mankinds relationship with God. What does that have to do with science? Since you have said that you do not know how to read Gurmukhi, I am curious to know which holy book contradicts science and specifically if you are referring to SGGS Ji?
>> Love > Religion <<
Where does it say that and what kind of love are you referring to?
>> So…given that I firmly believe in that, can in your opinion, can I still even be considered a Sikh? <<
The more important question is does the Guru consider you to be His Sikh?
If you want to find out the answer to this question, my advise to you is to seek the company of Gursikhs and learn from them. You will then have your answer.
Regards
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