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Messages: 5 - 8 (181 total)

	thebigcheezy 12/3/2004 4:58 PM	5 out of 181
	I only have one gripe with Sinkford's alleged shared moral values of UUism... "We believe that safeguarding a woman�s right to choose is a moral duty, and we will vigorously oppose any efforts to eliminate or significantly compromise reproductive freedom." I'm a UU, but I'm Pro-Life. I do not support abortion or euthanasia. Each one = ending life. It's not a question of when is a baby a human being, or even when life begins? A tiny embryo is a cell. A cell is alive. If you kill the cell, you kill life. I feel it is my moral duty to protect the sacredness of life. So, sorry Sinkford, not in MY name. Peace.

	Joel_Monka 12/3/2004 5:39 PM	6 out of 181
	I'm glad you brought this up, CC; I thought I was the only one who resented the press release. To me, and most dictionaries, any statement beginning with "We believe" is a creedal statement. Nor is this an isolated incident; Boston has been sending position statements to our congressmen beginning "On behalf of the more than 1,050 congregations..." for years. I disagree with the argument that these do not constitute creedal statements because he hasn't the authority to shun dissenters- only actual church members are aware of that. The rest of the world has every reason to believe- because our spokesman has siad so- that Unitarians believe these things. Our backing of these positions is used in public debate about where mainstream churches stand on these issues. You'll notice that not one of the hundreds of press releases and public statements begins with "This is one man's opinion". Joel

	smcisaac 12/3/2004 6:17 PM	7 out of 181
	Wrong, Allpoints. Anything that starts out "We believe..." is the definition of a creed (from the Latin credo, "I believe"), especially if it is issued by the head of a denomination in its name. (BTW, he's the president. Moderator is another position. But in our congregational polity, the president's fuction is similarly administrative rather than hierarchical.) Moving on to specifics, We believe that feeding the hungry and clothing the naked are moral duties, Okay, I'll buy that. It's both scripturally supportable and consistent with our historic tradition. and we will continue to work on behalf of economic justice. Uh, that's not feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. Where are the UU soup kitchens and thrift shops? And WTF is "economic justice"? Trent Lott thinks it's eliminating the estate tax on income that has already been taxes once. We believe that ensuring equal civil rights for gay and lesbian families is our moral duty, We believe in the inherent worth, dignity and equality of every person, including gays and lesbians, and we oppose persecution and discrimination against anyone, and most of us do a creditable job at treating those who are different from ourselves as equals. But whassup with singling out gay rights as a special "moral duty"? Why mention this and not, say, equal educational rights for children of illegal immigrants, or equal child-custody and alimony rights for divorced fathers? Expressed this way, it becomes a prioritized political agenda item, not a general religious value. and we will continue to work for Marriage Equality nationwide. I'm from Massachusetts and I'm proud of our Supreme Judicial Court. Nevertheless, what I just said before. We believe that serving as stewards of the earth is a moral duty, Actually, I do, and I don't do as much as I should about it, either. But that's not a historic part of our tradition. What is an authentic expression of our tradition is that the earth is sacred because it was created by God (as the Bible says), or even that the earth is sacred because divinity is present in it and one with it (as Ralph Waldo Emerson said). But the man who called for a "language of reverence" apparently isn't willing to be quite that reverent when he has the opportunity to use his own words. and we will continue to do everything in our power to protect the environment. Oh yeah? Like what? What does the UUA do to encourage its members to serve as stewards? What opportunities and programs does it provide to channel its members' energy? Aside from expressing opinions about what laws are needed to control the actions of other, less virtuous, people, that is. In my town it's the (gasp) Boy Scouts who organize volunteers to pick up trash in the parks and riverbanks.

	smcisaac 12/3/2004 6:23 PM	8 out of 181
	We believe that safeguarding a woman�s right to choose is a moral duty, Right to choose what? It's not a moral duty to preserve every woman's right to choose me; I'm already married. And what about a man's right to choose? Shouldn't a man have the right to choose to watch football rather than fix the squeaky hinges? This is of course political code language for the controversy swirling around abortion laws. And while I support Roe v. Wade, and don't believe that abortion is murder for non-viable fetuses, it's still playing with human life, which is morally a whole lot more troubling than just taking out the trash. Where's the acknowledgment of the underlying moral questions here? All he talks about is the civil law. and we will vigorously oppose any efforts to eliminate or significantly compromise reproductive freedom. This is entirely a political rather than moral agenda. A moral agenda begins with the individual, not with society. It's fine to talk about reproductive rights, but where's the corresponding talk about the individual woman's -- and man's! -- reproductive moral responsibility? We believe that providing affordable health care for all Americans is a moral duty, Do we? Sorry, Bill, but it's a strain for me just to pay for my own family's. I can't take care of the rest of the country right this second. Do you think I'm falling down in my moral duty? Or have you once again misconstrued what a "moral duty" is? How many medical and nursing scholarships does the UUA offer each year? Do graduates have to meet some social-service requirement after graduation? Or are you talking about what other people should do, and not us UUs? (Glad you'd limit it to Americans, though. But doesn't that violate the inherent dignity and worth of those illegal immigrant kids?) and we will continue to advocate for medical rights for the young, the old, the frail, and all of those in need. "Advocate"? Is that a devotional practice? "Medical rights"? Is that like subsidized pot or something Maybe those Paiutes and Rastafarians have something to teach us.

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