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Orthodox Women Rabbis?!?
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This discussion area is for Jews to talk with each other.Others may participate as respectful guests. Disputes or criticisms of Judaism must be directed to Judaism Debate. Attempts, no matter how courteous, to convert anyone to a different religious belief are not appropriate here. Messianic Jews please click here. Not Jewish? Want to learn more? Post respectful questions in Learn about Judaism. Hosts: tlennhoff, eliava
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Messages: 1 - 4 (38 total)
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hadassah_613
6/18/2004 5:45 AM
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1 out of 38 |
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Hello all,
A nice controversial topic here: s'micha for females in Orthodoxy... do you guys think it's happening anytime soon? Care to share on the Halachic ramifications?
Has anyone heard of Haviva Ner-David, an Orthodox woman who is studying independently for S'micha in Jerusalem? She wrote a fascinating book called "Life on the Fringes: towards Rabbinic Ordination". She's great. She's my hero :-)
At certain Modern Orthodox shuls, there is the phenomenon of the "Congregational Intern" - a woman who takes on similar roles as a rabbi/community leader. I've tried to research it, but haven't been able to find out more about it.
Was Blu Greenberg too optimistic or is the moment drawing near?
Hadassah.
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llennhoff
6/22/2004 12:01 AM
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2 out of 38 |
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Disclaimer: I'm new-come to the O community, so my opinions are not well grounded in experience.
I don't see the formal granting of smicha to O women anytime soon. I do see a growing public role for women, and a gradual evolution towards giving them more halachic authority. However, I think the word smicha is going to be fiercely defended even after we have women functioning as Rabbis.
The question of granting ordination or smicha is, I think, too broad. I'd break it down as follows:
1) Can a woman be the acknowledged spiritual leader of a congregation? I'd say so - but for the present it will require a leader almost as exceptional as her congregation.
2) Can a woman be the acknowledged practical leader of a congregation? (Taking all the role of a congregational rabbi except for the ritual ones). There are sources that would forbid this, but I think there is room for it.
3) Can a woman function as a halachic witness, maaser kiddushin, maaser gitten (supervisor of weddings, supervisor of gets), etc.? I really don't see a way for that to happen within the bounds of O halacha.
4) Can a woman simply be acknowledged and consulted for her advanced knowledge of Jewish texts, laws, etc.?
Yes - it has happened. Look at Nechama Leibowitz in contemporary times, or Beruria in the Talmudic era.
5) Can a woman be granted a degree that simply states she has mastered a certain set of practical halachic texts (which is all smicha is)? Certainly, as long as you don't call it smicha. Otherwise it is going to be a while.
6) Can a woman function as a posek (halachic decisor)? I use Feinstein's defintion of a posek - one who makes rulings that are followed. If a woman issues rulings grounded by halacha and O Jews follow them, then as far as I'm concerned she is a posek.
I've read Life on the Fringes. I liked it, but at the same time I'm aware of Ner-David often looked at the halacha and said 'Doesn't make sense to me - I won't follow it'. For example, her take on the niddah laws was to remove 'rabbinic extensions' that are nevertheless considered binding by O Jews. IMHO, that is not the proper response for a would be Rabbi.
Kol Tuv
Larry
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Jew-bert
6/22/2004 7:23 AM
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3 out of 38 |
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6) Can a woman function as a posek (halachic decisor)? I use Feinstein's defintion of a posek - one who makes rulings that are followed. If a woman issues rulings grounded by halacha and O Jews follow them, then as far as I'm concerned she is a posek.
I know that in the field of taharat hamishpacha (family purity), the women trained at Nishmat are referred to as "yoatzot halacha" (halachic consultants). They are world experts in the field, and (according to a lecture I heard by Rebbetzin Henkin, who heads the institute,) many well-respected rabbis have gone to them with questions. I think in this particular field, women have the potential to make the greatest inroads while ruffling the fewest feathers. It may be the entryway for greater women's authority in all matters of halacha in the future.
J-b
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hadassah_613
6/22/2004 1:29 PM
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4 out of 38 |
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On the Nishmat site, I noticed one woman being referred to as "Rabbanit". What does that title entail? Isn't that the feminine of "Rabbi" or am I wrong?
Larry: I understand your criticism of "Life on the Fringes". It's funny how you picked out the same exact thing! I remember reading it and thinking, "huh?" I love the book and support Ner-David 200% but I think in this case you might be right. In her defense... maybe she struggles just as we all struggle, with Halachic observance and she had to come to terms with hers. I think the questions she asks about Niddah are very legitimate, however, the Halacha to keeping the extra 7 days is very powerful. Ofcourse, if someone is just starting to keep Niddah, I'd advice them to go slow -- just like with Kashrut, Shabbat etc.
As to the other Halachic options: we come back to the same discussions... women cannot serve as "eidim" because they CANNOT relieve a man of his obligations, just like minyan, etc. This is why in Orthodoxy, they can never be full and equal leaders. Ooph... it's such a difficult debate.
The only way I can envision change is through slow, cultural change. The more mitswot and leadership roles women assume, the more people get used to it. But this may take a long time :-(
Hadassah.
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