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Why a creator GOD?
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Deists believe in the existence of a God or supreme being but deny revealed religion, basing their beliefs on the light of nature and reason.
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Messages: 1 - 4 (8 total)
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TransJ
6/1/2006 3:01 PM
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1 out of 8 |
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Is the existence of the universe and or GOD a natural occurrence?
1. What would be considered a natural occurrence in regards to these two entities?
2. How do we distinguish between artificial and natural existing entities?
3. Does the existence of one indicate the possible existence of the other?
nat•u•ral:
adj.
1. Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
2. Of, relating to, or concerning nature: a natural environment.
3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.
4.
a. Not acquired; inherent: Love of power is natural to some people.
b. Having a particular character by nature: a natural leader.
c. Biology. Not produced or changed artificially; not conditioned: natural immunity; a natural reflex.
5. Characterized by spontaneity and freedom from artificiality, affectation, or inhibitions. See Synonyms at naive.
ar•ti•fi•cial:
adj.
1.
a. Made by humans; produced rather than natural.
b. Brought about or caused by sociopolitical or other human-generated forces or influences: set up artificial barriers against women and minorities; an artificial economic boom.
2. Made in imitation of something natural; simulated: artificial teeth.
3. Not genuine or natural: an artificial smile.
From a theological perspective I think most god’s are considered natural occurrences, in that they are usually (natural) self-causing and not the product of something else. If one takes the position that the universe is created by a god, then the universe is an artificial occurrence. Some might try to argue for some form of “natural causation” by the god but the essential question is “could the universe have occurred without a god?” If “no” then the universe is artificial. And the universe is general assume to be inferior in all respects to its creator god.
However if god and the universe are considered equally natural occurrence’s, that is they are naturally self-causing or eternal in some form and not artificial. This would provide us with a common condition for estimating the possibility of similar existing things.
We can determine the difference between an artificial and natural occurring universe, by the degree that it could have occurred on its own or not.
TransJ (a Transtheist)
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TransJ
6/1/2006 3:22 PM
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2 out of 8 |
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Oh, the definitions for natural and artificial are from dictionary.com
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TransJ
6/2/2006 3:36 PM
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3 out of 8 |
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Transtheism posits that GOD and the universe are independent naturally occurring entities. G=GOD and U=universe.
We assume that G has more of and or has attributes that U does not, so that G is greater than and equal to U. Can U fully attain the attributes? If yes, we need to consider the possibilities of polytheism vs. monotheism or the union of U to G (only G would exist then). If no, what limits U? It would be clear that only U and or G are the source of the limitations. G can’t or will not allow the full attributes that U needs. U is self limiting. U and G unequally have the need attributes. All of these can be true at the same time; it just becomes a question of order from a primary reason down. My point of view is that U and G unequally have the need attributes is the primary reason and if U fully attain the attributes a union of U to G would occur (only G would exist then).
divine blessings to all
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Wandered_Off
6/2/2006 3:40 PM
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4 out of 8 |
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First, you seem to be drawing a strict distinction between God and the universe. Not all Deists do this, so for these "PanDeists" the point becomes moot.
Second, although most Deists I've talked with believe God is the creator, it's not a requirement. I guess that's what gets into your 'coexisting' discussion.
Third, I think a common view is that God set the process in motion and then evolution and other natural process took over. In that case, you might say that the creation act itself created an artifical entity that became the universe through natural processes. It's kind of strange to think of nature itself as artificial (if it is created), but I suppose you could get the definitions to go there. Seems like fun with words.
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