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Two Jewish friends debate the new war in the Middle East (Oy, vey)
My dear friend Sally Swift--you can read her at DailySally.com--was visiting her family in Israel when the war started. (If it looks like a war, sounds like a war and kills like a war, we might as well call it a war, don't you think?) There was no news on her blog, so I emailed her: "Are you home? Are you safe? Am I the only Jew who is sick of Israel?"
With that, we began an exchange that is, I'll bet, a rarity among American Jews-- two comrades on opposite sides of the hottest-button issue around having a civil debate. After a while, the thought occurred to both of us: Let's share this. So…here goes (because, as the Sufis say, "The guest is God," Sally gets the last word):
SALLY (7/13): Home now. Learned the news on layover in Frankfort today. Was unaffected and largely unaware. Will address your question tomorrow.
The next day, Sally blogged on the Israel/Hezbollah conflict. In that piece, she wrote: "What's the Foreign Fear Factor? It's the overreaction of those abroad and in America to any news of death and destruction anywhere in Israel."
JESSE (7/14): I'm confused. "Overreaction?" Is the front page stuff on today's NYT overreaction? And about the death and destruction in Gaza some weeks ago?
I quoted Steve Clemons at The Washington Note, who condemned the kidnapping of an Israel soldier--as well as "the disproportionate force that Israel has unleashed in response to this provocation."
SALLY (7/16): I wasn't making a political statement, but a personal one. I was saying that whenever bombs go off anywhere in Israel, those at home think all Israelis and tourists throughout the country are in immediate danger--when in fact most are geographically removed from real peril, especially true of our family there. As to the political debate, I'm working on a piece now….
JESSE (7/17): sends preview of last week's blog, "Bummer in the Summer," in which I argued that Israel cares nothing about the Arab children it's killing with its indiscriminate bombing.
SALLY (7/18) answers me first on her blog: My friend Swami posits,
"My Zionist friends like to say that every Arab hates Israel and wants every Jew dead. I've never bought this line. In my--granted--limited experience, most people want to be left alone to muddle through life with their loved ones nearby. Nobody I know wants to kill a neighbor's child before the neighbors throw bombs into nurseries."
Oh Swami, it's far more complex than that. Yes, most people want to be left alone ... individually.
But collectively, it's a different story. A society of people worn down by conflict and poverty and displacement, then spoon-fed images of an evil scapegoat and uplifted by promises of milk and honey in return for rage will respond in kind. How could they not?
Those people don't live in a vacuum. They live in communities, they talk to each other. Tell tales. Promote urban legends. Share outrage. Pass on to each new generation a legacy of centuries-old distrust and animus.
SALLY (7/20), emails me: Sadly, we are worlds apart on this one. Do you honestly believe Israel is deliberately killing children to incite a response of blind rage? Wow. Is Israel engaged in calculated over-reaction? Yes. But tell me, what would you do to protect your own children? And when was the last time your mother strapped a bomb to her body in furtherance of a fanatical political cause?
Last week after the family wedding in Israel we attended seven nights of "Sheva Brouchas"--seven blessings for a happy union--hosted by friends and family. For the Sheva Broucha that fell on Shabbos we stayed in the bride's home town of Betar on the other side of the Green Line, butting up against the Arab village of Bitar. The entrance to Betar is protected by Israeli military security gates, but the homes in the two towns are separated by only a shallow ravine.
One Arab custom to celebrate a wedding is to light fireworks ...our religious family can't light anything on the Sabbath, but their Arab neighbors lit spectacular fireworks to honor the Jewish bride and groom... the bride, if you read my earlier piece, lost her father in a Jerusalem bus bombing 2 years ago. So when you talk about people wanting to be left alone to live their lives--there's your answer. But of course, Hamas and Hezbollah don't hang out in Betar... Back to my question: Do you really believe Israel is deliberately killing children?
JESSE (7/21): I think Israelis believe an Israeli life is worth 2 Arab lives. I believe Israel is careless in its targeting, on the theory that Hezbollah hides bombs/rockets in civilian homes. I do not believe Lebanese uniformly hated Israel before. I believe Israel is teaching them to do that now. So, to answer: I don't think Israel cares very much about Arab kids,
SALLY (7/21): But Hezbollah does hide bombs/rockets in civilian homes. If not in, then near--that's a time-honored terrorist custom. As for Israel teaching Arabs to hate them... Israel doesn't have to teach them, their leaders do that. And what about Haifa? Netanya? Ma'alot? Who should Israelis hate for the Katyushas pounding those and other cities?
JESSE (7/21) I just got an "open letter" from an old friend who has become a rabid Zionist. She believes EVERY Arab wants EVERY Jew dead. I don't think you believe that.
SALLY (7/21): No, of course I don't. And of course all Arabs don't want all Jews dead--but the terrorist leaders who claim to speak for them act as if they do. It's bad PR turned inward, corrupting their own.
JESSE (7/21) I sent Sally a New York Times piece about an Israeli helicopter launching a missile on a truck that was following Israeli instructions to evacuate. A man, his wife and six children died. If this isn't a war crime, I asked, what is?
SALLY (7/21): Gruesome... horrendous... Shall I send stories of equally barbaric acts perpetrated by Arabs on innocent Israelis? A quote from a survivor's mouth in the NYT piece: "The Israelis can't understand that we are people, too. Should they wonder why so many of us support the resistance?" Well, if they support Hezbollah, it follows logically they do want Israel destroyed... How could the Israelis know for sure that truck wasn't carrying bombs? And what if it was? Hardly unprecedented. The cycle is unendingly vicious... How many times today and throughout history have Jews (and Blacks) said "(fill-in-the-blank) can't understand that we are people too"?
These are ALL war crimes, I don't excuse ANY of them... but why do we hold Israel to a higher standard than even our own country can claim? I'll say this again (and I'm in good company with the New York Times editorial board): Israel has reached a decision to send terrorist groups and the governments supporting them a clear message by acting forcefully when all else has failed and will continue to fail. Much as I disagree with virtually all Bush policies (and believe he doesn't comprehend most of our foreign policy), I am heartened by America's support for Israel. This quote from John Bolton is especially on point, "I want someone to address the problem (of) how you get a cease-fire with a terrorist organization."
JESSE (7/23): A lot seems to depend of what you read and watch. In this country, Fox had Ann Coulter and a clown of a private detective named Bo Dietl on as military experts. They applauded Israel--but then, apart from the usual progressive bloggers on the Web, who doesn't? The Israelis seem to have declared war on Lebanon; no one here notices, no one asks why, no one speaks out against yet another pre-emptive invasion in the Middle East.
In Europe, it's the reverse: Everyone condemns America. Even some of Tony Blair's key advisers condemn the US/Israel assault on Lebanon. As for the French, the Germans: no way they're signing up for any more US-led coalitions.
In Lebanon, according to some accounts, Israel has been blowing up TV stations and communications transmitters, both to keep the population in the dark and to prevent images from getting out I'm reminded of the "secret bombing" of Cambodia thirty-five years ago. Yeah, it was a secret--from Americans. The Cambodians, in contrast, saw the bombs falling. It was no secret from them.
Although I do not have information that satisfies me, I fall back on one truth. So far, Bush and his advisers have been wrong about every single thing in this region. They let Osama slip through their fingers at Tora Bora. They've made Iraqis nostalgic for Saddam. And now this fervor to cheer Israel on before we call for a cease fire.
When someone has been as wrong as often as Bush, it would be a miracle if he actually got this one right. I don't believe in miracles where this idiot is concerned. At the end of the day, what Bush sees as a worthy crusade must be viewed through a skeptic's lens--as a slaughter house where far too much of the blood is on Israel's hands.
SALLY (7/23): Jesse, you promised me the last word, so here goes. I think Bush and his handlers have stumbled on the Right Thing for the Wrong Reasons. Bush doesn't see this war as a worthy crusade, but as a way out of his own man-made doghouse at a lesser people's expense. Ask yourself just three questions about America, Israel and the Middle East:
Question: Does Israel have a right to defend itself?
Answer: Yes. The US had the same right after 9/11. But we went after the wrong targets. For bogus political reasons. And we still haven't found or routed the real bad guys. Israel historically does not make those mistakes--at least not all at once.
Question: Is Israel currently overreacting to real and perceived threats?
Answer: Maybe. The threats are real now and have been real enough in the past. Imagine how much greater the danger would become--to America and the world--if Hezbollah and Hamas were allowed to continue to grow unchecked, underwritten by Syria and Iran. Which America has been unwilling and unable to stop.
The Jackpot Question: Why is the Bush government supporting Israel in this conflict?
Answer: Let the Jews do the dirty work of smacking down rogue Middle East governments we can't control and eliminating terrorists we can't find. Let them put their soldiers in harm's way and bomb the hell out of the Middle East for a change. Let them take the blame now--and especially later, if the plan fails.
Bonus answer: Takes the war in Iraq off the front pages.
At the end of the day, as seen through my lens, while there is certainly blood on Israel's hands, far more blood drips from the hands of the Middle Eastern countries that shelter and support terrorist groups and the rabid, hateful causes--especially genocide--they espouse. They MUST be stopped. And the process will never be pretty.
Let's face it, my friend, when it comes to the Middle East, nobody's hands are clean.
With that, we began an exchange that is, I'll bet, a rarity among American Jews-- two comrades on opposite sides of the hottest-button issue around having a civil debate. After a while, the thought occurred to both of us: Let's share this. So…here goes (because, as the Sufis say, "The guest is God," Sally gets the last word):
SALLY (7/13): Home now. Learned the news on layover in Frankfort today. Was unaffected and largely unaware. Will address your question tomorrow.
The next day, Sally blogged on the Israel/Hezbollah conflict. In that piece, she wrote: "What's the Foreign Fear Factor? It's the overreaction of those abroad and in America to any news of death and destruction anywhere in Israel."
JESSE (7/14): I'm confused. "Overreaction?" Is the front page stuff on today's NYT overreaction? And about the death and destruction in Gaza some weeks ago?
I quoted Steve Clemons at The Washington Note, who condemned the kidnapping of an Israel soldier--as well as "the disproportionate force that Israel has unleashed in response to this provocation."
SALLY (7/16): I wasn't making a political statement, but a personal one. I was saying that whenever bombs go off anywhere in Israel, those at home think all Israelis and tourists throughout the country are in immediate danger--when in fact most are geographically removed from real peril, especially true of our family there. As to the political debate, I'm working on a piece now….
JESSE (7/17): sends preview of last week's blog, "Bummer in the Summer," in which I argued that Israel cares nothing about the Arab children it's killing with its indiscriminate bombing.
SALLY (7/18) answers me first on her blog: My friend Swami posits,
"My Zionist friends like to say that every Arab hates Israel and wants every Jew dead. I've never bought this line. In my--granted--limited experience, most people want to be left alone to muddle through life with their loved ones nearby. Nobody I know wants to kill a neighbor's child before the neighbors throw bombs into nurseries."
Oh Swami, it's far more complex than that. Yes, most people want to be left alone ... individually.
But collectively, it's a different story. A society of people worn down by conflict and poverty and displacement, then spoon-fed images of an evil scapegoat and uplifted by promises of milk and honey in return for rage will respond in kind. How could they not?
Those people don't live in a vacuum. They live in communities, they talk to each other. Tell tales. Promote urban legends. Share outrage. Pass on to each new generation a legacy of centuries-old distrust and animus.
SALLY (7/20), emails me: Sadly, we are worlds apart on this one. Do you honestly believe Israel is deliberately killing children to incite a response of blind rage? Wow. Is Israel engaged in calculated over-reaction? Yes. But tell me, what would you do to protect your own children? And when was the last time your mother strapped a bomb to her body in furtherance of a fanatical political cause?
Last week after the family wedding in Israel we attended seven nights of "Sheva Brouchas"--seven blessings for a happy union--hosted by friends and family. For the Sheva Broucha that fell on Shabbos we stayed in the bride's home town of Betar on the other side of the Green Line, butting up against the Arab village of Bitar. The entrance to Betar is protected by Israeli military security gates, but the homes in the two towns are separated by only a shallow ravine.
One Arab custom to celebrate a wedding is to light fireworks ...our religious family can't light anything on the Sabbath, but their Arab neighbors lit spectacular fireworks to honor the Jewish bride and groom... the bride, if you read my earlier piece, lost her father in a Jerusalem bus bombing 2 years ago. So when you talk about people wanting to be left alone to live their lives--there's your answer. But of course, Hamas and Hezbollah don't hang out in Betar... Back to my question: Do you really believe Israel is deliberately killing children?
JESSE (7/21): I think Israelis believe an Israeli life is worth 2 Arab lives. I believe Israel is careless in its targeting, on the theory that Hezbollah hides bombs/rockets in civilian homes. I do not believe Lebanese uniformly hated Israel before. I believe Israel is teaching them to do that now. So, to answer: I don't think Israel cares very much about Arab kids,
SALLY (7/21): But Hezbollah does hide bombs/rockets in civilian homes. If not in, then near--that's a time-honored terrorist custom. As for Israel teaching Arabs to hate them... Israel doesn't have to teach them, their leaders do that. And what about Haifa? Netanya? Ma'alot? Who should Israelis hate for the Katyushas pounding those and other cities?
JESSE (7/21) I just got an "open letter" from an old friend who has become a rabid Zionist. She believes EVERY Arab wants EVERY Jew dead. I don't think you believe that.
SALLY (7/21): No, of course I don't. And of course all Arabs don't want all Jews dead--but the terrorist leaders who claim to speak for them act as if they do. It's bad PR turned inward, corrupting their own.
JESSE (7/21) I sent Sally a New York Times piece about an Israeli helicopter launching a missile on a truck that was following Israeli instructions to evacuate. A man, his wife and six children died. If this isn't a war crime, I asked, what is?
SALLY (7/21): Gruesome... horrendous... Shall I send stories of equally barbaric acts perpetrated by Arabs on innocent Israelis? A quote from a survivor's mouth in the NYT piece: "The Israelis can't understand that we are people, too. Should they wonder why so many of us support the resistance?" Well, if they support Hezbollah, it follows logically they do want Israel destroyed... How could the Israelis know for sure that truck wasn't carrying bombs? And what if it was? Hardly unprecedented. The cycle is unendingly vicious... How many times today and throughout history have Jews (and Blacks) said "(fill-in-the-blank) can't understand that we are people too"?
These are ALL war crimes, I don't excuse ANY of them... but why do we hold Israel to a higher standard than even our own country can claim? I'll say this again (and I'm in good company with the New York Times editorial board): Israel has reached a decision to send terrorist groups and the governments supporting them a clear message by acting forcefully when all else has failed and will continue to fail. Much as I disagree with virtually all Bush policies (and believe he doesn't comprehend most of our foreign policy), I am heartened by America's support for Israel. This quote from John Bolton is especially on point, "I want someone to address the problem (of) how you get a cease-fire with a terrorist organization."
JESSE (7/23): A lot seems to depend of what you read and watch. In this country, Fox had Ann Coulter and a clown of a private detective named Bo Dietl on as military experts. They applauded Israel--but then, apart from the usual progressive bloggers on the Web, who doesn't? The Israelis seem to have declared war on Lebanon; no one here notices, no one asks why, no one speaks out against yet another pre-emptive invasion in the Middle East.
In Europe, it's the reverse: Everyone condemns America. Even some of Tony Blair's key advisers condemn the US/Israel assault on Lebanon. As for the French, the Germans: no way they're signing up for any more US-led coalitions.
In Lebanon, according to some accounts, Israel has been blowing up TV stations and communications transmitters, both to keep the population in the dark and to prevent images from getting out I'm reminded of the "secret bombing" of Cambodia thirty-five years ago. Yeah, it was a secret--from Americans. The Cambodians, in contrast, saw the bombs falling. It was no secret from them.
Although I do not have information that satisfies me, I fall back on one truth. So far, Bush and his advisers have been wrong about every single thing in this region. They let Osama slip through their fingers at Tora Bora. They've made Iraqis nostalgic for Saddam. And now this fervor to cheer Israel on before we call for a cease fire.
When someone has been as wrong as often as Bush, it would be a miracle if he actually got this one right. I don't believe in miracles where this idiot is concerned. At the end of the day, what Bush sees as a worthy crusade must be viewed through a skeptic's lens--as a slaughter house where far too much of the blood is on Israel's hands.
SALLY (7/23): Jesse, you promised me the last word, so here goes. I think Bush and his handlers have stumbled on the Right Thing for the Wrong Reasons. Bush doesn't see this war as a worthy crusade, but as a way out of his own man-made doghouse at a lesser people's expense. Ask yourself just three questions about America, Israel and the Middle East:
Question: Does Israel have a right to defend itself?
Answer: Yes. The US had the same right after 9/11. But we went after the wrong targets. For bogus political reasons. And we still haven't found or routed the real bad guys. Israel historically does not make those mistakes--at least not all at once.
Question: Is Israel currently overreacting to real and perceived threats?
Answer: Maybe. The threats are real now and have been real enough in the past. Imagine how much greater the danger would become--to America and the world--if Hezbollah and Hamas were allowed to continue to grow unchecked, underwritten by Syria and Iran. Which America has been unwilling and unable to stop.
The Jackpot Question: Why is the Bush government supporting Israel in this conflict?
Answer: Let the Jews do the dirty work of smacking down rogue Middle East governments we can't control and eliminating terrorists we can't find. Let them put their soldiers in harm's way and bomb the hell out of the Middle East for a change. Let them take the blame now--and especially later, if the plan fails.
Bonus answer: Takes the war in Iraq off the front pages.
At the end of the day, as seen through my lens, while there is certainly blood on Israel's hands, far more blood drips from the hands of the Middle Eastern countries that shelter and support terrorist groups and the rabid, hateful causes--especially genocide--they espouse. They MUST be stopped. And the process will never be pretty.
Let's face it, my friend, when it comes to the Middle East, nobody's hands are clean.
