'All of Us See Through the Glass Darkly'

Bill Clinton explores politics & religious values in a sermon at Riverside Church before the start of the Republican convention

BigFishSmallPond

04/10/2005 11:20:18 PM

Article VI ARTICLE VI United States Constitution no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. AMERICA HIJACKED BY A QUASI-RELIGIOUS GOVERNMENT America has been hijacked and bullied by Bible thumping subversives claiming divine intervention of "moral values" as justification for ripping apart the harmonious fabric of our nation which was founded upon the cornerstone of religious freedom, tolerance, and mutual respect. I agree with Bill Clinton when he said, “Our number one threat abroad is fundamentalism, absolutism. Terror is their tactic, but it is their ideas, their hatred, their absolute certainty that they are so right that they can kill people who disagree with them – that is our enemy.” Whether our freedoms are wiped out by bombs from abroad or wiped out by tyranny from within—it makes no difference. The result is the same. An enemy of freedom is an enemy of freedom is an enemy of freedom.

amberma201

11/01/2004 06:15:34 PM

I wish people would stop being so self righteous! No one is perfect and no ever will be, you are not perfect so stop pretending. Clinton did get in trouble and we as a nation caused ourselves to get laughed at! If the media didn't have this need to create "sensational" news then our dirty laundry wouldn't be so accessible to the rest of the world! If I could get Clinton back into office I'd do it in a heart beat! I agree what he's saying, not every issue is one sided and not every issue is black and white. Just because I am pro-choice doesn't mean I am pro-abortion it means that I don't believe in forcing my opinion on others through law. It's their moral right to choose whether or not that's right for them. Leave my morality and values to me thank you! Don't blame the MTV generation we're a little more informed than you think!

GraceMan

09/13/2004 09:07:17 AM

"You who is without sin, cast the first stone!" "Judge not, least you be judged!" I personally think that Bill Clinton was a good president. He was definitely good for our economy in the 90's. His record of job creation and a balanced budget cannot be disputed. He was a lot better than who is occupying the white house right now. Our economy is in shambles and don't forget that 9/11 happened on Bush's watch.

mizmikey

09/03/2004 11:37:48 AM

THIS IS FOR TOBATURE96: First take a chill pill! How many presidents used the White House as a "House of Ill Repute"? Sure maybe some did. But the technology of today with worldwide cameras, TV, etc, you have to watch yourself better then that. YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO YOUR COUNTRY IF YOU ARE PRESIDENT. Even my 7 year old KNEW that!

akbusch

08/31/2004 05:19:14 PM

And mizmikey, that would indeed be a difficult question to answer, especially from a 7-year-old, I'll give you that. But the fact is that Bill DID get in trouble, BIG trouble, for the lies he told. Impeachment comes to mind, for starters. Sure, he wasn't convicted, but his legal costs took quite a bite out of the Clinton family coffers. And we've learned recently that he basically slept on the couch for quite awhile after his wife found out what happened, and his daughter wouldn't even speak to him for a long time. So to say he didn't get in trouble--t'ain't so!

akbusch

08/31/2004 04:12:29 PM

Okay atelan, if you want to go there, let's go there! First, I really don't think Clinton has been forgiven. I really don't. He's still as hated as he ever was, maybe more so, and he still is being basically blamed for everything that's gone wrong during the current administration. Secondly, yes, what he did (had an illicit affair and then lied about it to the nation) was reprehensible. But let's ask ourselves this: How many people died as a result of that lie? Then let's ask ourselves this: How many people have died because of our incumbent president's lies? Last I heard it was 900 and rising! I'd say that Mr. Bush's lies aren't so much unforgiven as they are, by too many people, ignored. And whether or not we were laughed at as a country for what Bill did (and I think you probably have it right, rawwar73), we are now more hated than ever for our arrogance.

tobature96

08/31/2004 02:52:59 PM

atelan the more I learn about him the more I know that I would never vote him into office...I didn't last time and I wouldn't today. It also seem that Bill Clinton can make mistakes and be forgiven, but if the republicans make a mistake it's unforgivable...how right is that? Clinton didn't need your vote to give us the best eight years of our lives, and he certainly would not need your vote today for anything. Why do we forgive Clinton? Well, the man asked. Jesus asked us to forgive our brother who asks for forgiveness. Only the ungodly do not forgive those who ask for forgiveness. As for Republicans, how can they even ask for forgiveness when they do not sin? The sinless do not need forgiveness because they have achieved sinless perfection. And I am yet to see a single good Republican administration, I mean ONE. In desperation, many try to prop up Reagan, but we all know that his scandal-ridden administration does not make the cut.

rawwar73

08/31/2004 02:06:08 PM

atelan, yes, we as a country were laughed at - for going off the deep end over the Clinton affair. People overseas were bemused and amazed at what a big deal the puritan wanna-be's in congress (most of whom were proven to have been unfaithful in their marriages as well) made out of the whole thing. As for Clinton's mistakes being forgiven, it is for God to dole out judgement, not you or I. We should not attempt to stand in the spread. We need someone in office who knows how to govern well and in a way that benefits Americans as a whole, not someone who stands up to our attempts to play God over his faults and sins. Say what you will about Clinton, it would be hard to argue that the average American didn't do pretty well during his tenue. That's what we need to make judgements on when we vote - the rest is up to God.

atelan

08/31/2004 01:24:14 PM

God can use any person that he chooses to accomplish his will. We vote people into office but God has the final vote, people arn't in office by coincedence. Ever person mentioned in the Bible has some sin attached to them in some way...some more than others. Nothing has changed that in our time. Clinton is a human being, and when he was first running I was considering voting for him, but the more I learn about him the more I know that I would never vote him into office...I didn't last time and I wouldn't today. Passed Presidents may have lied while in office, but he made a mockery out of the United States...I'm sure that we as a country were laughed at. It also seem that Bill Clinton can make mistakes and be forgiven, but if the republicans make a mistake it's unforgivable...how right is that?

tobature96

08/31/2004 12:09:07 PM

mizmikey My daughter was 7 yr old when he was questioned about Monica L. She asked me, "mom if it is wrong to lie, how can the president of our country lie and not get in trouble?" How in the world could I answer her? That's right. The man lied and never got in trouble, and that is the absolute truth! You should have tried to help her by giving her the names of ALL the presidents who NEVER lied, for a start. You could have continued by telling her you have never lied. Of course Clinton didn't deserve to be in office. How can you lie and still be president? How can anybody lie and still hold a job? The only people who deserve to work in this holy world of ours are those who speak no lie, hear no lie and condone no lie. There you have it. And this country and indeed the entire world will be better for it.

hootie1fan

08/31/2004 11:45:38 AM

One or two issues do not define morality. Yet, this is exactly what the RNC is trying to convince us is true of both Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry and guess what! The Republicans get to choose the issues. If Mr. Bush were to run on issues like job loss, income loss, health care, veterans care etc., he would lose this election. Unfortunately, the defining issues seem to be who can create the most fear in people.

rawwar73

08/31/2004 10:39:57 AM

Re: Clinton. Throughout the bible God chose deeply flawed men to do His work. David was a murderer and adulterer yet God calls him a man after His own heart. Even in modern times, we had a great president in FDR, who also cheated on his wife. Man is nothing, but often the work God chooses to do through man can be great. Perhaps it is time for people to let God do the judging on President Clinton and open their ears to see if perhaps God may be trying to speak once again through a failed, flawed man.

kentonself

08/31/2004 10:31:25 AM

So what I read President Clinton saying, is that if it's a republican position (protecting the unborn, protecting marriages and families), then it's "seeing through a glass darkly", but if it's a democrat position (declaring open season on the unborn, taxing marriage) then it's "just be[ing] more perfect." To use his words, this "bothers me."

mizmikey

08/31/2004 10:14:08 AM

I am so embarrassed to have Clinton STILL associated with the government of this country. My daughter was 7 yr old when he was questioned about Monica L. She asked me, "mom if it is wrong to lie, how can the president of our country lie and not get in trouble?" How in the world could I answer her? President Regan had so much respect for the Oval Office that he would NEVER enter without a jacket and tie on. Clinton treated it as his little sex room. I lost a lot of my faith in our government while he was in office and lost respect in friends and family who STILL support him and made excuses for him.

mizmikey

08/31/2004 10:14:06 AM

I am so embarrassed to have Clinton STILL associated with the government of this country. My daughter was 7 yr old when he was questioned about Monica L. She asked me, "mom if it is wrong to lie, how can the president of our country lie and not get in trouble?" How in the world could I answer her? President Regan had so much respect for the Oval Office that he would NEVER enter without a jacket and tie on. Clinton treated it as his little sex room. I lost a lot of my faith in our government while he was in office and lost respect in friends and family who STILL support him and made excuses for him.

ariessag

08/31/2004 12:28:51 AM

The real problem is there are 4 multi-millionaires running for the offices of President and Veep, and no one to represent the people that work 2 and 3 jobs and still can't afford child care. I love Bill Clinton, because he grew up in poverty and knows what it's like to make it only on your intellect and drive, instead of daddy's money and connections. It makes me sad to see all these well-meaning Christians deceived by the so-called "values" of the GOP. The devil operates on 99% truth and 1% lies, which is why he is so effective. Jesus said it takes more than lip service to be a Christian. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21

god_is_in_the_tv

08/30/2004 09:47:25 PM

On that note, as much as President Clinton's oration tickled my ears (eyes?), I take it with a grain of salt. It seems no matter which side wins, neither is willing to step up and end the oligarchy that keeps us fat, dumb, afraid and enslaved to dreams of wealth.

god_is_in_the_tv

08/30/2004 09:42:29 PM

Is it really a mindf*** if you're a slut for every emotional proposition that some pol or Mad Ave ad agency throws at you? LOL - had me spitting my soda on my screen there, willsea. Our attention span and propensity to buy the easiest answer is certainly a product of our mediated reality. We eat it up for a number of reasons, like... ...because we're too busy working our asses off to keep a roof over our kids' heads to have time to do an in-depth analysis of anything. or ...because we so damned scared of what's going on the world that we just want to believe that *someone* is telling us the truth - that truth being whatever confirms our worst fears for us and then promises to make them go away.

WillSea

08/30/2004 05:31:09 PM

the reason propaganda works, and that people choose not to deal with nuance, is that we've been trained that way! Is it really a mindf*** if you're a slut for every emotional proposition that some pol or Mad Ave ad agency throws at you? Before humanity can become decision-makers, we have to throw off the non-thinking attitudes and exercise the right of thinking for ourselves. That ain't gonna happen on the individual scale until that individual gets fed up with all of the crap he/she's being fed. Can't blame it on MTV tho, this pattern is centuries old.

akbusch

08/30/2004 04:53:48 PM

I wouldn't want to be married to him either, galesms;-), but I found this interesting. Not really a sermon, mind you, sort of a combo of lecture, political stump speech for Kerry and sermon, but interesting nonetheless. I agree with the former president, and I've always believed, that it's wrong to demonize your political oppponent as "anti-family" or "anti-values" or "pro-abortion" just because they differ from you, or worse yet, to imply (or outright state) that your party's view is the "Christian" view. I tend to disagree a bit with Mr. Clinton on one point: I think he somewhat over-estimates we Americans when it comes to doing "the right thing if we've got enough information and enough time to think about it." I think, sad to say, that the majority of us in our MTV culture want quick, simple answers and we really don't want to have to think about too much. And the majority of us don't deal in nuance!

galesms

08/30/2004 04:19:02 PM

Thanks, Bill, for so aptly pointing out that the Republicans do not have a monopoly on Christianity.Here is an imperfect man, just like all the rest of us, but with insight, compassion and intelligence. I wouldn't want to be married to him, but I would vote for him again in a heartbeat!!

Starrrrr

08/30/2004 04:10:37 PM

Max Cleland, who left two legs and an arm in Vietnam, voted against the Homeland Security bill the way it was set up because it stripped 170,000 workers of their job protection who had nothing to do with your security. [...] They ran an ad down there in Georgia comparing him to Saddam Hussein. And they beat him because people were scared and did not know the truth. Now, the same thing’s happening with the swift boat ad. Smear and fear tactics will always be around because deceit works. People will believe anything if it's presented in a way to exploit their emotions. Propaganda works. See swift boat ads.

catholicseeker

08/30/2004 01:49:36 PM

Well spoken both Bill and willsea. I cannot add anything you what you have said here..

WillSea

08/30/2004 01:16:41 PM

Not "values!!!" That overused and underfunded word by the "Right" is a leftover from the campaign that Dan Quayle ran against Murphy Brown --and lost. Let's not use this word, it's empty, it's lopsided, it represents the limited and limiting views of one religious idea of social control. Not "values" but PRINCIPLES. Principles belong to ALL, as Freedom, Self-Determination, Peace, Health, Human Dignity and support for the Common Good. "values" are somethin' I get when the blue light is shinin' at Kmart. Principles are priceless. Principles are the inalienable right of all, the gift of the Divine to all. P R I N C I P L E S. and Principled leadership.

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