'Why Would The Anti-Christ Write Chorus Line?'

Is Bush as religious as he claims? These, and other questions addressed by liberal comedian-activist Al Franken


07/14/2005 01:14:37 PM

Come on tnbella7! People do interviews for publicity! What did you expect?


09/22/2004 10:36:04 AM

Beliefnet - I'm disappointed! Only four questions on Frankens' spirituality?! We already know what he thinks of Bush, et al. It's in his book. I was hoping for something a bit more insightful as to the author himself.


01/18/2004 08:33:27 PM

"The key word here is "civilians". As in "noncombatants". Contrary to some propaganda sources, The U.S. does not target civilians, unlike our extremist middle eastern as well as home-grown declared enemies." -------- Who sold the weaponry to Saddam that he used against his own people in the 80s? Who equipped the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan in the late 70s and early 80s in an attempt to bait the Soviet Union into attacking? Who propped up the Shah of Iran while he was torturing and killing thousands of his own people?


01/16/2004 09:48:06 AM

Congrats Al & Team Franken for your bravery & integrity! The money machine behind the radical right is very powerful and influential. For years I've been so sick of hearing mostly negative news about Clinton & the Democrats. And, since Hannity's arrival at Fox, I couldn't believe that a network that shows humorous satires like "The Simpsons" & "That 70's show" would give a pushy, closed-minded, zealot his own news show. This is the same guy who quotes the infamous pill-head, fat-a$$, racist, sexist bigot (Rush). Thank you so much for doing the research that many honest people do not have the intellect or time to perform. Keep up the good work & God bless!


10/25/2003 05:16:47 PM

quote by Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce: "Good words do not last long unless they amount to something. Words do not pay for my dead people. They do not pay for my country, now overrun by white men. They do not protect my father's grave. They do not pay for all my horses and cattle. "Good words will not give me back my children. Good words will not make good the promise of your War Chief. Good words will not give my people good health and stop them from dying. Good words will not get my people a home where they can live in peace and take care of themselves. "I am tired of talk that comes to nothing. It makes my heart sick when I remember all the good words and all the broken promises. There has been too much talking by men who had no right to talk. How smooth must the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right."


09/25/2003 09:55:19 PM

OMG! Excilfitpat get a GRIP! you are spouting pabalum spoon fed to you by the right wing media, almost all if it pure fiction! but if you tell a lir long enough... Oh, and you need to get some other facts straight, Catholics were reading the bible Centuries before you little behind was being wiped, the MASS was changed to the vernacular after Vatican !! in the 1960s! JEEZ!


09/22/2003 08:17:07 PM

Regarding the WWJD remark in Henry!'s post, my comment, and the remaining posts after do not compare 43's actions to WWJD, but what the bible and Christianity as a whole teach us. While 43 may occasionally follow the letter of the law, he certainly has provided ample example of breaking the spirit of the law. As to the remarks that certain Postings or AF's book look at "isolated incidents", if you had read the book you would know that is not the case, It is quite detailed and has full documentation. If anything, it seems the media has been for MORE forgiving of 43 than they ever were of 42, and only now are finally starting to hold him to some sort of standards about truth telling. I can't think of another example of a President in the last 30 years who's been held less accountable for what he says and does. I lived in TX when 43 was governor there, and it's clear he meant it when he said he wanted to do for (to) the country what he did for (to) TX! God help us all.


09/22/2003 01:08:57 PM

Of course he could rig the election again.... Ahh Florida.... , how I love how Jebby done right by his brother....


09/22/2003 01:08:21 PM

He also says let he who has no sin cast the first stone.... and the Republicans have been pitching boulders at all those who disagree... it might be fine to say that you will turn the other cheek when it comes to an individual making an attack on you, but when someone steals an election, ruins the economy, starts an unnecessary war over false pretenses, threatens to cut all social programs that christ would love.... then its time to fight back......and thats what we the Lefty Loonies/ unpatriotic morons/bedwetting liberals are finally doing... as for Bush getting re-elected... I don't know every time he opens his mouth.... he loses more and more possible voters....


09/22/2003 08:50:07 AM

Jimmyrow...you are right. He is waking a lot of christians up. Just read some of these posts! In the past 25 years people have been voting on one or two issues(i.e. abortion), when the republican party has been using those issues to their advantage and have rapped themselves in a cloak of christianity. We haven't been able to see what they are doing underneath that cloak. I new a guy once who did home repairs. And if he new his prospective empoyer was a christian, he would take a bible with him to give his quote. He was NOT a christian, but knew enough to convince these people they were hiring a good christian boy. Just because they carry a bible and call themselves christian, doesn't make them christians. Actions are more powerful than words.


09/22/2003 03:44:45 AM

john, The key word here is "civilians". As in "noncombatants". Contrary to some propaganda sources, The U.S. does not target civilians, unlike our extremist middle eastern as well as home-grown declared enemies.


09/21/2003 07:31:29 PM

It's sad to see so much bitterness in the posts from those who call themselves Christians. Jesus said that love would be the special attribute of His followers. I don't recall ever reading in the Gospels that Jesus told us to hate those who think differently from those who follow Him. The night before He died, Jesus commanded us to "love one another as I have loved you." The way to convert people is through prayer, not hateful words. Think about that & read John again.


09/21/2003 08:40:29 AM

Actually, Clinton and the U.N. killed more Iraqi's than Suddam. Bush 41 killed more Iraqi's than Suddam, depending on whose numbers you use. Bush 43 killed less than Suddam.


09/21/2003 08:37:09 AM

I think Jesus would agree with Al Frank when he says Hell is on Earth. Jesus would go further and say Heaven is on Earth. It is quite possible the belief in the afterlife is based on the Greek and Egyption Pagen interpretation of apoxia caused Near Death Experiences. I am gradually coming to realize that when Jesus talked about Heaven and Hell, he meant here on Earth, and the traditional Christian interpretation of most of Jesus's sayings are quite, quite wrong.


09/21/2003 03:03:40 AM

Donaldito: More than a couple of things come to mind here. One, I personally would be more than happy to trade making the death penalty illegal if the left would give me making abortion illegal. The problem is, this is law, not chess. Two, I have no problems with this war ethically, as I have no problem with overthrowing tyrants who ritually use torture, rape and intimidation to control their populace. We can't get 'em all just yet, but at least one in down for the count. Mathematically more civilian lives would have been taken by Saddam and his henchmen from future generations than were taken in this conflict. I know, this is easy for me to say in my little gilded American suburban cage, but true. Three, no matter what any politician does, they will always be open to cheap shots from the "WWJD" arrow.


09/20/2003 09:03:03 AM

henry1: Though Franken uses some specific events as examples, there are other facts that might suggest that Bush does not walk the path of Jesus Christ. How many people has he allowed to be put to death in Texas? How much much money did he promise to lower income people and not come through on? How many children no longer attend after school programs because he cut that program's budget from $1Billion to $600,000? And all this money goes to fighting a war and rebuilding a country we had no business being in in the first place.


09/20/2003 06:31:42 AM

If any of you had watched watched the Omen movies, you'd know thart God had nothing to do with Bush stealing the Presidency.


09/20/2003 04:09:41 AM

The bitterness and hatred that the left political left has for Bush oozes through Al Frankens "satire". His spiritual judgements and attacks are typically ad hominem, and skimpy on data. I'm sure his audience finds it funny, yet begging for spiritual substance. Al Franken reading Bushes soul through a few selected quotes from a few speeches makes about even less sense as Bush reading Vadimir Putins soul through Putins eyes. What concerns me most is that the level of rage the left is experiencing now is nothing compared to the hysterical vitriol that may well erupt in unhealthy expressions when G.W. is re-elected. And he will be. Peace Be With Him.


09/19/2003 07:39:40 PM

Thanks TrSeeker


09/19/2003 11:39:59 AM

washedrobe: This is an example of satire; Al Franken is a satirist.


09/19/2003 11:32:20 AM

Franken said: God actually chose Al Gore, and got him the popular and electoral vote, which is usually sufficient. If God did that then why didn't God finish the job and get him all the way in?


09/19/2003 05:03:45 AM

Question: How will fundamentalists interpret climatic condition changes when it effects their area? It is so convenient to pull the devil out of the magic hat when bad things happen to people on one side of belief - "their" side. This "religious speak" is sad, very sad. It is to the detriment of all mankind. Personally, I agree with Frankel on one very important point: "Hell is on earth". This means mankind has the responsibility to make "Heaven".


09/19/2003 02:31:47 AM

The fundies will buy anything with the words God, Jesus, Salvation, Heaven/Hell, Judgement Day on it. Even buying the most idiotic and misleading president all Americans have ever seen and experienced. Wait till the body counts increase. Sad that young people have to die in order to awaken the very people who are still addicted to the opiate of fundamentalist religion.


09/19/2003 01:51:46 AM

To Flagracer, Bullseye. "If anything, the book is actually deeply religious in its insistence on the imperative of truth and social responsibility. Claiming to be a leader who is "christian" opens you up to scruntiny to see how you live up to the lessons of the bible".


09/18/2003 03:22:23 PM

I'm just nauseated that peacestep says Jerry Fallwell's heart is in the right place.... If I'm not mistaked, not only is that statement false, but Jerry Fallwell also has no heart, or soul for that matter


09/18/2003 02:57:07 PM

Al Franken is a creep. He judges Mr. Bush's spirituality based on his informal Bible quiz, and decides that his is lying about his faith. He must think he has supernatural powers himself, since he can read minds and judge the heart and intent of others.


09/17/2003 10:08:18 PM

George Bush is an unwitting catalyst for positive change. He's showing us who we don't want to be as a nation. The change would've been slower under Gore.


09/17/2003 09:04:16 PM

How wonderful to see a whole list of posts by people who care about people and who do not believe G.W.Bush's lies.. I thank God for people like you..


09/17/2003 07:59:12 PM

I believe it is the adherents of a religion that make it exclusive or inclusive, not the religion, itself.


09/17/2003 07:48:59 PM

Septegram: Quoth SeekingKen Also, all religions demonstrate a disturbing level of exclusivity (my religion is the only true religion); and triumphantism (my religion is the only road to salvation). No, they don't. Most polytheistic religions don't indulge in such nonsense, for example. Actually, Hinduism can get pretty exclusionary, even towards its own believers (with the caste system).


09/17/2003 07:43:46 PM

To continue with observations, until you read the book you are only guessing at what Al says. For the most part, what is not satire is simply his observation of: a) the disconnect between what many "conservative" people in positions of power say and what they actually do, and b) a description of what these same people have said, in context, verbatim, and compare it to the what the documented reality actually is. If anything, the book is actually deeply religious in its insistence on the imperative of truth and social responsibility. Claiming to be a leader who is "christian" opens you up to scruntiny to se how you live up to the lessons of the bible. If the comparison is unflattering, perhaps some changes are in order.


09/17/2003 05:22:32 PM

Thank God for Al Franken!


09/17/2003 05:00:55 PM

Quoth SeekingKen Also, all religions demonstrate a disturbing level of exclusivity (my religion is the only true religion); and triumphantism (my religion is the only road to salvation). No, they don't. Most polytheistic religions don't indulge in such nonsense, for example. This is a big, big, problem. There is only one God, and his presence in the United States has nothing to do with what we can do. Let us allow each other to reach out to the one true God in the ways that make sense to us. Odd that you'd call this exclusivism a "big big problem" and then turn around and start talking about "the one true God." How do you not see the contradiction there?


09/17/2003 04:44:18 PM

It never ceases to amaze me the disdain for all things Christian these days. Name calling, cat calls, hate-mongering are signs of a weak and indefensible position. Hypocrisy is demonstrated by secularists, christian's, and other faiths as well. More often than not, hypocrisy is mistaken for failure to follow a set standard of behavior. Christian's fail often as the standard is very high, as was intended. As a POTUS, or a leader in the evangelical movement, your failures will have greater consequence. None-the-less, I believe that Bush and Falwell's hearts are in the right place and deserve more constructive criticism than to be referred to as idiot's and liar's. Though free to say what he likes, Franken's commentary is not constructive and has little relevance to moving the discussion forward. Once human discourse stoop's to name calling and ridiculing, moving forward become's secondary to who can shout the loudest.


09/17/2003 01:22:40 PM

there is no rapture in the bible


09/17/2003 06:07:32 AM

I'm just finishing the book now. Love it. I'm glad Fox tried to sue him over the title or I never would have thought to look at it. Hilarious, thought provoking, and filled with that special something many in politics hate -- truth.


09/16/2003 07:24:16 PM

Also, regarding Franken's book: has anyone here read it. That's not the impression I'm given reading these posts. Either way, coming from the left or the right, Franken takes very specific statements/actions of certain people and methodically presents how those actions turned out to be lies. Very simple.


09/16/2003 07:24:00 PM

xcelfitpat said: "The standard is simple, if your church espouses doctrine that is in direct contradiction to Christ's teaching you've have been led astray. The liberals love to point to laws passed to a very specific group of people at a very specific point in time in books such as Leviticus to make their sins "okay" by today's standards. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. It must be nice following teachers that make it comfortable to sin against God; I guess it's always easier than doing what is right." This makes almost no sense whatsoever. You make a sweeping statement which, in a nutshell, states that one is right to follow Christ's teaching. Let's say I agree. Now show me where Christ said homosexuality is a sin, which is no doubt at least one of the Leviticus Laws you were talking about. You can't, I know.


09/16/2003 11:37:50 AM

Allah doesn't ask for things like that to be done in his name.... its a fundamentalist teaching, quite similar to Christian Fundamentalists like that idiot Fallwell who think that we deserved things like the WTC attacks because we are a nation of fornicators, not because of our poor foreign policy decisions


09/16/2003 11:30:33 AM

With Christians like xcelfitpat, who wants to be lumped in with that group?


09/16/2003 11:09:58 AM

xcelfitpat writes, I suggest that you show me the influence of Muslim, Jew, Hindu, etc. on any of the early history of this country The Transcendentalist movement in New England is a prime example of Hindu influence on the early history of the U.S.


09/16/2003 09:52:13 AM

xcelfitpat: Well, I have to add my name to the long list of people who think you're out of line here. i am not a Catholic, but I am very troubled by the notion that Catholics (or members of any other denomination) are not "true" Christians.


09/16/2003 04:13:50 AM

What worries me very much is the idea that George Bush may be doing the will of God but that the name of God is Allah. He used extreme force to attack a country that was technically far inferior to the great Western powers. As for Weapons of Mass Destruction, from all the information we had about these possible weapons it was understood by me that these weapons 'could be' chemical or biological and therefore small, easily concealed and able to be borne in the air over large areas. On the other hand, when we talk of WMD are these weapons possibly: Hatred, Anger, and Extremist Self Sacrifice. One of the most fearful weapons is the emotion of: I think I am going to die anyway so why not -------------- (fill in the blank with a hideous act). Did this notion not take birth in the siege of Baghdad?


09/16/2003 03:02:22 AM

9/14:xcelfitpat said"A worker was reprimanded for reading his Bible when work stopped during a tornado warning, even though other employees were allowed to read newspapers and secular books; churches are excluded from various zoning districts even when other nonreligious assembly uses are permitted; public school students were told they would be expelled if they talked about Jesus in school; school officials planned to place a public school student in detention because she brought her Bible to school;members of a Christian club were told their group could not meet unless they agreed to permit non-Christians to be elected to the club leadership. Other clubs were permitted to limit membership and leadership to students who shared their objectives. The list goes on..." 8th Commandment bans lying, and every word’s a lie. Did you copy it from the site of a nonsense seller like Jerry Falwell? This is the "Republican apocryphal story," defined in Franken’s "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations."


09/15/2003 10:56:49 PM

A few typos below. Single mom end of the day eye ball fatigue syndrome. Please excuse.


09/15/2003 10:54:46 PM

I have always been so grateful for Mr. Frakens writting. he turns a phrase with so much straight forward truth,I personally TINGLE. If you read this stuff,Al,can I call you Al. I loved your writting on "When A Man Loves A Woman" (I am Meg Ryans character).. haven't found Andy yet. But it is just great to have on the planet. You are a mench. Blessing to you and your family. I hope one day to grow up and be just like you. cc


09/15/2003 06:46:27 PM

There is no country that is without God. The issue is not the presence or absence of God. It is simply impossible for God to be absent anywhere. The issue is how we chose to connect with God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, etc. afterall were not created by God. Religion is a device man has created to access God, and this is the problem. Also, all religions demonstrate a disturbing level of exclusivity (my religion is the only true religion); and triumphantism (my religion is the only road to salvation). This is a big, big, problem. There is only one God, and his presence in the United States has nothing to do with what we can do. Let us allow each other to reach out to the one true God in the ways that make sense to us.


09/15/2003 05:37:40 PM

Thank God for Al Frankin. Pointing out the hypocracy of the so called religious right. They claim evil doers are trying to take God out of our government.Yet they are against the laws inspired by the Bible;feeding the poor,Taking care of widows, orphans,the elderly,paying your workers a fair wage etc.. They want to honor God with their lips not deeds,a sin in itself. They judge others,for instance Fleshly pleasure isnt spiritual but lacking strength St. Paul says marry,its better than to burn with lust.Shouldnt this apply to Gays Too? They falsly claim supply side economics is biblical and socialinm is satanic,yet in acts the Christians lived comunally.Where is there anything in the bible that supports their viewpoint?


09/15/2003 05:36:45 PM

xcelfitpat, To quote you: "I agree that all people should have the right to pursue their religous beliefs without fear of persecution, but I also believe that a country without God will soon be no country at all." This is an interesting statement for me. In a country where people practice many different religions, if in one's religion is the belief that God does not exist in any other religion, does that mean there is less God because of all of the other religions? I think that this is what lies in the heart of religious intolerance.


09/15/2003 05:12:04 PM

whew excelfitpat! that's a relief! I can stop worrying about your acceptance? Now I can breathe again!! If you want tradition, little one, the oldest surviving written narrative records the transformative love between two men, Gilgamesh and Enkidu, in the epic of Gilgamesh, which predates your little bible by about three thousand years. Other cultrues predating Judeochristianity also made a place for homosexuality and even (horrors!) non monogamous heterosex. Indeed, my dear, I am not worried about the acceptance of people who believe in Virgin birth and bodily resurrection--one can scarecly regard you in the light of rational beings, let alone as judges of rational persons.


09/15/2003 04:02:58 PM

Sorry, I couldn't resist ;) Seriously, tho, I think jimmyrow pretty much hits the nail on the head.


09/15/2003 04:01:23 PM

George Bush is the devil.


09/15/2003 02:35:04 PM

Jimmyrow, you're a smart guy.


09/15/2003 02:31:52 PM

BTW...I am both Native American and European Christian...my genetic heritage. And I can't tell you how I felt, when watching "Little Big Man" in my college history class, watching my "ancestors" slaughter my other "ancestors"...truly sad. Peace and Love to ALL


09/15/2003 02:29:55 PM

jimmyrow... You are 100% RIGHT ON!!!! I've been a "Christian" all my life, but have just recently understood that to be the TRUTH...and I didn't get that TRUTH from any pulpit...I got it straight from the "SOURCE". Peace and Love to ALL


09/15/2003 01:58:41 PM

I sometimes wonder whether, Rumsfeld and Bush have cloven feet


09/15/2003 01:57:39 PM



09/15/2003 01:56:23 PM

It appears the Christian Right is frightened of genuine freedom of religion and its frightened of free thought in our society. If not, why is it so hellbent on placing granite monuments in public places and controlling religious thought in this country? There's nothing in the U.S. preventing Christians from practicing Christianity, except themselves. FYI, I am a Christian. This argument about our country being founded upon Christian traditions is tiresome. This land in which we live was the home of Native Amerericans for tens of thousands of years. These people lived in harmony with the land until the Judeo-Christians showed up and took their land away in a most unChristian-like manner. Jesus didn't come here to start a religion in which he'd be worshipped. He didn't come to proclaim his divinity but rather to proclaim of the divinity within each person. He showed us The Way. His main teaching was about unconditional love. Can't cite any actions of the Bush Admin that reflect uncond love.


09/15/2003 01:51:39 PM

Rock on Catholic Seeker!!


09/15/2003 01:45:13 PM

xcelfitpat, "It's a shame that Catholics don't think of themselves as Christians; I guess that's because you have a pope centered religion versus a Christ centered church." Wrong. If you had bothered to learn anything about Catholicism, you'd know this is not true. I am constantly apalled by the lies about Catholicism that some protestants spread among themselves.. Add me to the list of posters you have succeeded in offending.


09/15/2003 01:22:04 PM

and everyone was up in arms over the Clinton sex scandal..while I disagree with his personal morality, no one is going after Bush regarding his knowlege of Telecom and Enron financial collapse... Only Clinton got a blow job, where as millions were screwed when their pensions went to shit over greedy corporate pigs. Frankly I find their greed more morally repugnant than a blow job


09/15/2003 01:20:17 PM

Republican action post 9/11 was bomb em back to the stone age... and while I was as angry as any citizen, i didn't want to see that happen.... the Afghani people were not at fault... thier totalitarian regime the Taliban was... we removed them from power.... now rather than actively searching for Mr. Bin Laden, we throw a war in Iraq that had nothing to do with terrorism


09/15/2003 01:18:31 PM

Which party chooses to help the impoverished with welfare? Which party wants to see ALL people educated? Who provides health care to the uninsured? Who provides education and job training? Which party keeps giving us bogus tax cuts so that instead of taking care of my future kids, I gotta worry about how to pay for their braces and my moms perscriptions? I mean really Mr. Pres who needs social security?


09/15/2003 01:16:27 PM

I also take offense that you think that I must be doing the wrong thing and going against God. I find, more often than not, doing the right thing is easier...I resent that people think the republican party is filled with better Christians.... cause frankly the only thing that republicans and Christianity see eye to eye on is abortion


09/15/2003 01:09:15 PM

Heh it's true it was the Indians.. xcelfitpat, as a Catholic, I don't want to be identified with the crazy people of the Bible belt... there is an extreme idea that knowledge is deadly in that area of the country. And as for showing you the influence of Judaism, Islam etc on the early history of this country also eliminates Catholics as we were pushed and shoved around any place that wasn't Maryland, all the way throught the Irish emmigration


09/15/2003 12:48:34 PM

Xcelfitpat; wouldn't the "founders of America" have been the animist, pantheist Indians?


09/15/2003 12:46:02 PM

Xcelfitpat, did you know that the hebrew word for spirit is the same as the word for breath? Don't be so sure that you know when a person's spirit merges with the growing foetus. Also, the Episcopalians who support the gay bishop, as I do, know that it will discourage promiscuity among gays, and that the Bishop will be setting a much needed example of committed loving lifetime relationships, gay OR straight. You seem to think gay is just about sex. Answer my question, would you sell your daughter to her rapist? Do you eat pork? Clearly you pick and choose from the words of the bible according to your own personal tastes. So why not do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and let them practice their faith as they see it, just like you do? God loves us all, conservative and liberal alike. This isn't a contest for who wins heaven, you know.


09/15/2003 12:42:54 PM

It is true excel that people are willingly led astray when they choose to hear what they wish to hear rather than seeking to hear the truth no matter what.


09/15/2003 12:38:48 PM

I suggest that you show me the influence of Muslim, Jew, Hindu, etc. on any of the early history of this country and it's doctines and I'll be happy to read that. As to CS Lewis, you must not be too big of a fan because he by no means condoned the "interpretation" that some seem to think is appropriate. The standard is simple, if your church espouses doctrine that is in direct contradiction to Christ's teaching you've have been led astray. The liberals love to point to laws passed to a very specific group of people at a very specific point in time in books such as Leviticus to make their sins "okay" by today's standards. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. It must be nice following teachers that make it comfortable to sin against God; I guess it's always easier than doing what is right.


09/15/2003 12:37:09 PM

However, God is in control and all these things will work together for good to those who love Him and seek His will.


09/15/2003 12:33:30 PM

We have lost and are daily losing ground in Canada. It will not surprise me if they outlaw Christianity at some point. The bureaucrats are working hard to find laws to attack and bancrupt the churches.


09/15/2003 12:33:16 PM

While you're at it, show me the faith that condones or promotes in it's original teachings the practice of killing the unborn or practicing promiscuous heterosexual lifestyles or any sort of gay lifestyle and then we have a discussion. You know what, you can't find such a thing whether it's Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. The liberal left continues to try and reinvent the wheel to make their sinful lives seem acceptable. You may be able to fool yourselves, but you will never fool God; don't worry about my acceptance, worry about His! Good luck!


09/15/2003 12:32:55 PM

Jump 150 YEARS (some people forget about this time period) and there were people of ALL religions in this country. I dare say Ben Franklin, for example, was very progressive in his spiritual beliefs. This country was not founded by Christians alone. As to the "fundamentalists", sure, they are acting out of faith in God as described in the bible as interpreted by one point of view. Others differ, including many members of the Episcopal church, of which I am a proud member. Some look at the essence of the bible, others read the words and select which details they like best. Few choose to sell their daughters to their rapists, for example, which is the biblical penalty for rape.


09/15/2003 12:32:01 PM

I would be suprised if they showed up in Syria.... This fool who is our president needs to be removed from power. Fact of the matter is, he blew off Europe about this Weapons of Mass Destruction and now he's crawling back to them for troops and financial help. I sincerely hope that Europe tells us to go frost our own cookies.....


09/15/2003 12:31:30 PM

To all, but especially xcelfitpat, there is a lot of misinformation in these posts. My Mayflower ancestors came here to avoid the state version of Christianity in place in England at the time. They were most familiar with the bloodshed that occurred in England over who had the right translation of the bible and christianity. Remember that Queen Elizabeth was fairly recently dead when they left, and older persons saw plenty of dispute. Some may have wanted to rule by their religious standards, but not all. A number of the Mayflower passengers weren't Puritan separatists, some weren't religious at all. Continued in my next post.


09/15/2003 12:31:23 PM

Sure I watch the news, I'm just pointing to the situation involving a lot more than Iraq and Iraq is the place where the lesson could be taught. Could the US invade France or Russia. Maybe these are the real problems behind a diplomatic farce.


09/15/2003 12:29:57 PM

There's being critical and there's being unpatriotic; two seperate issues entirely. You are all welcome to speak your mind in this free society; try it in Iraq and you would be dead! It's a shame that Catholics don't think of themselves as Christians; I guess that's because you have a pope centered religion versus a Christ centered church. If you ever read through the Bible - whick Catholics couldn't do until the 1960's - you would see that there was supposed to be only one universal church and that that church, as established by Christ, was to include all peoples of all nations and that their was not supposed to be some elite ruling class of pharisee or sadducee ruling class as many mainline denominations have done. By the way on seperation of Church and State: the courts have indeed enacted laws that take away a Christian's freedom of religion. TBC


09/15/2003 12:29:43 PM

I'm ok with nailing drug traffickers and fraud artists. I am tired of the scams perpetrated against the elderly and unsuspecting public which in turn affect honest charities.


09/15/2003 12:28:58 PM

no its not unfortunate its morally wrong....I would stand up against it if people thought I was a member of the IRA because i have a celtic knot tattoo and i have red hair, freckles and green eyes.... If you didnt know about Russia and France taking oil etc under the table than you've not been watching the news since Jan.


09/15/2003 12:27:55 PM

Also I would not be surprised if the WMDs showed up in Syria.


09/15/2003 12:27:08 PM

and its not security issues that are going on with the patriot act. This act allows our gov't to go into our homes without our knowledge, to tap our phones without a warrant, to go into our credit and financial info... and its being used for reasons other than fighting terrorism. Its being used to nail drug traffickers, and people who commit fraud.


09/15/2003 12:26:59 PM

There is much more to Sadam and his crew than we yet know. I found the revelations on Russia and France very interesting. Supporting sanctions while accepting payments under the table.


09/15/2003 12:25:14 PM

Racial profiling is unfortunate, but how do you tell moderates from radicals? It may be necessary to screen everyone from a particular background because of radical trauma such as 9/11. Someday I may be screened as a Christian because of some radical right winger.


09/15/2003 12:25:00 PM

The problem is that there was ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. This was jr. feeling like he had to clean up Sr.'s mess. I resent the fact that my friends are over there risking their lives so his oil cronies can scare up a profit


09/15/2003 12:22:31 PM

Security issues can make it hard to have an open transparent discussion. The president is in a hard position of making choices that the public cannot always be informed on. Knowing that you are pulling out of Saudi Arabia and having a base in Iraq from which to fight terrorism may have been the necessary call. Especially in light if the revelations that the Sauds are funding it.


09/15/2003 12:16:29 PM

I agree that we might not know the whole truth on WMD, but the references seem to have dropped off quite a bit... But Pres. Bush has been enacting some rather shady laws ie: the Patriot Act. He's encouraging racial profiling etc. And of course my favorite act done by republicans since this war started was to call all of the non-supporters un patriotic.... as Chris Rock put it so eloquently: You're either for the war or against the troops" So I guess I'm unpatriotic, but sometimes I think the most patriotic thing to do is to criticize the Govt when it is not acting the way it should


09/15/2003 12:12:39 PM

I also can't think of a single idea worse than having the Christian Coalition tell me how to run my life. I don't want gov't in my bedroom, living room or workplace, especially if its being force fed to me by the wacky religious right


09/15/2003 12:12:07 PM

Canadian Christian conservatives seem to be a lot less radical than in the US.


09/15/2003 12:09:47 PM

I was also sceptical of Bush's christian agenda until I read 'The Right Man: The Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush....An Inside Account' by Canadian David Frum. Bush does seek to balance his advisors and does incorporate prayer and Bible study (which is required) into daily routine of the White House. Frum in a non-practising Jew. As for lying about Iraq, there is a lot the media cannot publish and the whole truth may not come out for generations, at which time Bush may very well be fully vindicated in his actions.


09/15/2003 12:09:00 PM

xcelfitpat, No where does it say anything about the seperation of Church and state???"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." So I guess that, technically no it doesnt say anything about seperating it, however, by virtue of the fact that we are a plural society, by passing laws based solely on the Christian Right would exclude an awful lot of Jews and Muslims and Catholics, like myself. So in order not to negate any one theology, the state must stay away from all religious questions


09/15/2003 11:05:54 AM

Al Franken rules!!! True, he does give off that essence of the weenie who goes around telling you there's t.p. on your shoe, but I agree with most of what he says here. The Bush administration is Christian in name only. Just look at its policy, its arrogance, its ignorance. The neocons and the fundies love to get their panties in a twist over America being a modern-day Babylon. To me, however, the religous right and their puppets in Washington are nothing more than modern-day Pharisees. We are much closer to a theocracy than ever. Be afraid. Be very afraid.


09/15/2003 10:34:37 AM

I keep reading what every one is putting up on the board. Some of you people are really ignorant in relation to the Bible. Franklin basically is discussing his view on Bush being a hypocrite. Bush says one thing but does the other. When Clinton was in office everyone had this big fit over him having an affair, doing his thing in the oval office, and his lying. But apparently Bush can lie about reading the Bible and no one finds this disturbing (for those who don't realize this, it is also called studying the word of God, it is something to be taken very seriously). He is in an office that is is considered to be the most public office. He needs to remember when he is talking to one person, he is talking to the nation. To xcelfitpat responsible theologians do concede with the gospels.


09/15/2003 10:31:07 AM

Franken questions the devoutness of Pres. Bush by pointing out that he couldn't recall his daily lectionary selections. He also points out the curious unawareness a Prayer Breakfast attendee had with regards to where the "Ten Talents" is to be found. He may be on to something. Since there has been little evidence of real Christianity present to the Executive Branch's agenda (forgiveness, beatitudinal attitude, peacemaking, untrumpeted almsgiving, and confession) it perhaps is not a large step to question whether there is any there there, to the alleged Christianity of the current administration?


09/15/2003 09:51:09 AM

I happen to think Al F. can be--isn't always, but can be--funny. We need to remember that he's an entertainer. We should take him no more--or less--seriously than, say, Rush Limbaugh. Al does what he does partly because he's become sick, as I have, of conservatives being the only voices given airplay. No, he's not always fair, or even accurate, but is Rush?


09/15/2003 09:17:15 AM

From someone outside the US, it is as plain as the nose on your face that Fox News is ridiculously biased in favour of the government. It astonishes me that people can't see the very outline of Pravda when watching Bill O'Reilly.


09/15/2003 09:16:58 AM

xcelfitpat: Even if I were to concede that the gospels transcribe Jesus' life and teachings in any accurate way--which no responsible theologian does, all of them recognizing that the gospels were all written after Paul outlined christian theology--still nowhere in any of the gospels does Jesus say anything at all about Gay sex. Those hypocrite fundies who claim this are the same ones who ignore the authority of gospel teachings on divorce (most of them are divorced at least once) and most egregiously ignore the many injunctions against judgmentalism.


09/15/2003 07:51:56 AM

Al Franken is weird. I am glad O'Reilly stood against Al's allegation. Al is so stupid that he thinks O'Reilly is a conservative, he is not. O'Reilly is a "Populist". He beileves in some sort of small government, no influence of corporate powers, morality, etc... If we have Al Fraken as a political leader, we would have wide spread violence, immorals acts (no God, unlimited drug use, unlimited sexual gratification, no education, and pornography to everyone). This would make us the weakest country in the world. Conservatives are just as bad. Populist is a better government than any of these two. Al Franken looks like that character on "Where is Waldo", does he not?


09/15/2003 12:07:17 AM

The last stab of elitism, casting someone off into the depths of the "trailer parks." Since when did trailer parks become taboo? I don't take kindly too to those that don't take kindly too. ;)


09/14/2003 11:56:38 PM

edwin: Franken asked Evans if the Parable of the Talents was in Acts, not Luke. Evans was way off the mark. xcelfitpat: You repeat two stories which are completely false. Bill Clinton did NOT force Israel to release someone who became a 9/11 hijacker, and Gore did NOT laugh at Oliver North. Oliver North himself refutes the story concerning him, and the Israel story concerned someone whose name resembled Mohammed Atta. Please go to snopes.com for the lowdown.


09/14/2003 11:47:59 PM

I have to disagree with you, xcelfitpat. You need to take a history class. Our founding fathers, the one's from the 18th century that is, were Deist's. It was popular in those day's to intellectualize and rationalize religion (Christianity). They believed there was a God but did not take the Bible literally. They also were Mason's. G. Washington's swearing in was a Masonic ritual. Your version of what our Forefathers intended is way off.


09/14/2003 11:43:49 PM

What about "Render to Caesar"? It seems to me Jesus was the original advocate of separation of church and state. Christ hung out with drunks and prostitutes because He believed one could only change culture by becoming part of it. Christians started their own publishing companies, magazines, record labels, radio stations and TV networks. They pulled their kids out of the public schools. Then they wonder why they don't have any influence on culture.


09/14/2003 11:32:25 PM

I think the only one who takes Al Franken seriously is Al Franken. I love irony, when it's funny, and most of all ironic. Mr. Franken hasn't been funny since SNL. Nice attempt Al. I'm sorry not all of us are not swayed by your informative vapid wit, reclaiming the lost Clinton years and crying in the corner screaming "mommy look at me" before I make my spectacular dive into the pool. "Mommy Look!!!" Yeah and ...?


09/14/2003 11:22:49 PM

We are in no way headed towards becoming a country without God. If anything we have been gradually moving closer to becoming a country with an official religion of the state. If that condition is ever realized some of those who pushed the hardest will be the most unhappy when they discover what a two edged sword they have unleashed. They will have established the precise condition which motivated the founding fathers to flee their homelands and come to a place where they established a government which was a separate entity from the church.


09/14/2003 11:22:43 PM

If you wish to talk about the language of the Constitution, try finding a mention of "God", "Jesus Christ", or any deity. They're not in there. Period. Maybe that's the reason Bible-thumpers always refer to the Declaration of Independence. Dead Bird. Dead, dead bird. DPFR


09/14/2003 10:38:57 PM

In 1620, the Pilgrims drafted our nation's first self governing document, the Mayflower Compact.In this document, the Pilgrims clearly stated that they came to the New World to glorify God and to advance the Christian faith; The Declaration of Independence was based on Christian ideas and viewpoints. The liberties it granted to citizens were understood to come directly from the God of the Bible; The Bible was quoted more than any other source in the political writings of America's founding era; there is absolutely no language in the Constitution that says anything about the " seperation of church and state". NONE!!! The uniqueness and the reason for the greatness of this country is based on the beliefs that this country was founded on, nothing else. I agree that all people should have the right to pursue their religous beliefs without fear of persecution, but I also believe that a country without God will soon be no country at all.


09/14/2003 10:27:48 PM

Bill Clinton is responsible for forcing Israel to release at least one of the eventual suicide bombers that flew a plane into the Towers in New York; Al Gore laughed at Oliver North when North warned a congressional committee that Osama Bin Laden was a tremendous threat to the security of the United States. People voted for Al Gore based on their pocket books, not their moral values, plain and simple. GW may not be perfect, but he's a better leader than Gore could ever hope to be. Saddam is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and would only have killed more; war sucks, folks, but the Bible is filled with examples of God's righteousness and hatred of evil. NOW FOR SOME FACTS ABOUT AMERICA...


09/14/2003 10:22:49 PM

As for those who would like to think of God as only a God of love you are sadly mistaken to leave out the truth that God is also a God of righteousness and holiness. God hates sin more than any human because He knows how much harm the sin does to us. If you really have read the Bible ( and I'm sure George does too ) you will see many examples of God's justice to the sins of man. Try reading through the first and second books of Samuel to see God's righteousness at work through David. Try reading the Book of Revelations and many other New Testament books to see what Christ and the apostles have declared will happen to the unsaved when judgement day comes. God is perfect love, but God is also perfectly holy. As for our current president and our war on terrorism: Saddam and the Taliban flourished during the years of Bill Clinton; TO BE CONTINUED


09/14/2003 10:17:36 PM

'Why Would The Anti-Christ Write Chorus Line?' ***** Why not? You think he only likes Bach or Beethoven?


09/14/2003 10:14:11 PM

For those of you who seem to think that we "religious right" people are having way too much influence on your rights, take a look at all areas of the media. What do you see? If you try to tell me that modern movies, tv shows, books, documentaries, talk shows, etc. show a strong influence of Christian values I'll just have to laugh at your foolishness. The opposite is quite obviously true. As for the definition of what a fundamentalist is: a fundamentalist is one who first and foremost lives a life centered on the teachings of Christ as laid out in the Bible, plain and simple. There are so many warnings in the Bible about all of the false prophets that will come along ( see Episcopal church for starters ); the only thing you have need to know if a church is on the right path or not is to see if what they teach agrees with what Christ taught 2000 years ago.... TO BE CONTINUED


09/14/2003 10:09:25 PM

A worker was reprimanded for reading his Bible when work stopped during a tornado warning, even though other employees were allowed to read newspapers and secular books; churches are excluded from various zoning districts even when other nonreligious assembly uses are permitted; public school students were told they would be expelled if they talked about Jesus in school; school officials planned to place a public school student in detention because she brought her Bible to school;members of a Christian club were told their group could not meet unless they agreed to permit non-Christians to be elected to the club leadership. Other clubs were permitted to limit membership and leadership to students who shared their objectives. The list goes on... TO BE CONTINUED


09/14/2003 10:03:54 PM

Here's the one common denominator of all mankind: we are all sinners. The difference between a Christian and a non-Christian is that we admit that fact and we accept God's gift to us that His Son died so that we won't be judged for those sins when we die. Wow, what a hard to swallow concept! What arrogance! George Bush is no exception to the rule of being a sinner and guess what, Christians do make mistakes and we do keep sinning to the day we die. The difference is that we make a sincere effort at repenting of those sins and we ask forgiveness for those sins. Tell me what't so bad about that. Tell me what liberties from the First Amendment that the Religious Right has taken away from the Liberal Left ( your terms, not mine). I can tell you that I have had rights taken from me to practice my Christianity in this country in many ways. Here are a few of the examples for you non-believers: TO BE CONTINUED


09/14/2003 09:58:01 PM

I'm sorry to say that it is apparent that most people here have no clue about the history of the United States of America and it's origins as well as absolutely no clue about Scripture. The saying goes, " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Christ was definitely a social activist, but a "liberal"? Give me a break. By today's definition of the term, Christ was as conservative as one can get. Try no sex before marriage; try no gay sex; try no lewdness or drunkenness; try obey God, first and foremost; try pray to God at every opportunity; try the basics of honor and love God with all your heart, soul and mind. None of these commandments are part of today's liberal agenda. Try all of the times that Christ states that the only way to Heaven is to believe in Him. Are these statements liberal by today's standards? I don't think so folks. TO BE CONTINUED


09/14/2003 06:53:59 PM

A scary factlet I just read in the paper this morning: In a study by Michigan State University, over a third of the subjects stated that the First Amendment "goes too far" in guaranteeing individuals' freedom. But over 90 percent of Americans can't even name the freedoms of the First Amendment. We are a nation of IDIOTS who prefer anesthetizing ourselves with self-satisfaction and mindless entertainment -- the ol' bread and circuses -- to acting as informed citizens. And you can bet that the powers that be want to keep it that way.


09/14/2003 01:32:45 PM

" We as a nation are so ready to follow anybody." Truer words were never spoken. Look who we picked for president. Oops, I forgot the majority of us didn't vote for the guy currently holding that spot. He got picked by ruling of the Supreme Court when the electoral votes in the state where his brother is governor were being questioned. Wait a minute. Isn't that the "liberal" Supreme Court that is always making rulings against conservatives? Now I am really confused.


09/14/2003 12:25:31 PM

At the risk of taking Al Franken too seriously;-), as a spot-on social satirist he serves a prophetic -- prophetic in the original sense of social critic/gadfly/conscience -- role in the United States...a nation where a significant percentage of the population seems to be irony impaired.


09/14/2003 10:55:45 AM

Nobody is saying we should follow Al Franken, least of all Al Franken. (His book about running for president, Why Not Me? should make that clear). He just makes a few good points. No need to take him so seriously.


09/14/2003 10:26:45 AM

I can remember Al Frankens sharp wit in the "me generation" satires, he would always end his comments with "how does that effect me Al Frankin." I always laughed at that skit. A fair comedian yes, not great but fair. intellectual? No! Theology authority? No! We as a nation are so ready to follow anybody.


09/14/2003 09:33:36 AM

What does it matter that Franken is an entertainer? Will Rodgers was essentially an entertainer, a humorist, and look at his positive effect on society. Like Bill Maher, I respect Franken for having the courage to speak his heart at the risk of alienating the public and ruining his career. He sometimes lapses into a tit-for-tat war of words but for the most part he's raising awareness about the hypocrisy we see in the politics and religion of the Right. Our country has become way too skewed to the Right. Is Bush a Christian? He's gutted environmental protections for profit; waged war for profit and control; cut taxes for the few at the expense of the rich; cut back on social progrms that help people, and presided over 100 executions in Texas. Are these actions in line with the teachings of Jesus? Jesus' position on capital punishment was pretty clear in the New Testament when the villagers wanted to stone a woman to death. Franken is a champion for free thought!


09/14/2003 08:19:31 AM

Al Franken strikes me as a mouthpiece for the left, much as Rush Limbaugh fills that role for the right. Both seem to take a diquieting glee at tearing down the reputations of others in leadership positions in order to make a buck and a name for themselves. Only God truly knows the depth and quality of the spiritual lives of our politcal leaders (and those who follow them), so Franken would do well to tread softly when assailing another's faith...even that of a war-monger.


09/13/2003 11:18:27 PM

Al Franken rocks! I have followed his career since the infancy of Saturday Night Live where he was a dynamic behind-the-scenes creative genius. This country needs people like Al who help keep the despots in line and from running amok. The religious right thinks they have the keys to the kingdom. They are simply fooling themselves. Go Al. Keep rockin' buddy.


09/13/2003 10:45:52 PM

I think I liked Al Franken better when he was a Hare Krishna bashing Buddhism! :)


09/13/2003 09:25:15 PM

Unfortunately human beings aren't made of plastic.


09/13/2003 09:18:58 PM

I thought Bush was supposed to be the anti-Christ? Or at least that other guy who rules the world with an iron fist. Seems like he's doing pretty well at that so far, playing a game of 'Risk' with world politics.


09/13/2003 07:06:44 PM

It's funny that the Religious Right always put down liberals. Jesus WAS what Republicans now call a bleeding heart liberal. It is that kind of perpetual misuse of the scriptures that tick intellectuals like Franken off. Christians are easily manipulated by Authority figures because they have been shamed into complacency. Franken is trying to shake people awake. Even if you dissagree with him, you may be inclined to do a little research on the topics he has discussed, and you can then make up your own mind.


09/13/2003 03:29:50 PM

Peace and Good! I like Al Franken as a comedian. I don't look to him for theology. He is an entertainer. So is Rush Limbaugh. The focus of entertainers/comedians to reveal the absurdities that come from being human. One usually has to identify a group to attack (right or left, liberal or conservative, for example). As for President Bush, I believe he is sincere in his beliefs, and that is good, but I disagree with some fundamental points where the gospel and society intersect. But that is why we have such forums. God bless!


09/13/2003 03:00:07 PM

As for why Bush would lie about reading the Bible everyday, Al doesn't seem to understand that in the fundamentalist subculture which Bush is part of, one is EXPECTED to read the Bible every day, and it's embarrassing to admit that you read it may be once a month. Many read the Bible seldom, but PRETEND to read it daily. I've been a fundamentalist, and I'm now an Episcopalian, and I read the a LOT more of the Bible now than I did then. Then, I SAID I read it daily. Now, I actually DO read it daily.


09/13/2003 01:42:16 PM

Umm...Edwin, if it'd been a 'Is it Luke, or is it Matthew', I'd be pretty forgiving. Lots of parables are in both. But it was /ACTS/ that they were talking about. Not only is this parable not in Acts, there's no parables /at all/ in Acts. (Luke /wrote/ Acts, supposedly, but it's not the Gospel according to Luke, and it's all about Paul and the early days of the apostles /after/ Jesus.)


09/13/2003 11:34:09 AM

IMO, it seems that one of the important points about religion in America is that there is a difference between spirituality and worship of a God and a political agenda to force a particular belief on others. I am not about to insist that one ignore one's belief when one enters the voting booth. But, it is this effort to transform, by law and judicial decisions, into a "Christian" nation, run for and by Christians, that is objectionable and dangerous and is simply unAmerican. Wouldn't it be great if all these religious right/conservative types that insists that the pledge contain "one nation under God" would finish reading the pledge that says " with liberty and justice for all."


09/13/2003 11:15:31 AM

God bless Al. :-)


09/13/2003 09:52:46 AM

Mr. Carter was Souther Baptist, but he recently withdrew from their convention. I think Clinton was just a "regular" Baptist. This thread has been civilised so far except for one individual. I feel sorry for anyone who has to use liberal or conservative and the word belief adjacent to it. I also feel sorry for someone who has to use the same adjective and noun twice in a couple sentences. But I am ANGRY when someone tries to restrict freedom of speech. Back to the trailor park with you. Nobody needs you.


09/13/2003 09:51:06 AM



09/13/2003 09:15:23 AM

And what did Mr Franken think of Presidents Carter ('I have lusted in my heart') and Clinton and their public (i.e., political) displays of faith (good Southern Baptists, I believe)? I remember a fair amount of publicity about Carter being the first evangelical President. And I always found the image of Bubba parading into church on Sundays, dutifully carrying his Bible, disquieting.


09/13/2003 06:05:04 AM

MR EDITOR keep your personal politics out of this newsletter. Have you actually researched all that you are critical of? Really, have you checked any of the claims of the negative focus groups besides using another negative resource? How can anyone think that being obnoxious and making a living at it is a sign of intelligence. Our society today blindly takes at face value the media dogma and accept it as fact. This is a perfect example of the public being nothing but sheep. We are losing control of our freedoms because the public is too busy to do their own true research and believe the crap that is spoon fed to us. The trick is to keep an open mind when, and if, the information you locate is opposite your opinion and then try to disprove that - not just blow it off as "wrong". I believe we are headed to a civil war, or total loss of the freedoms we enjoy today, in the next 20 years because of this intentional mis-information. WAKE UP AMERICA !!


09/13/2003 03:50:56 AM

Al Franken is anti-Christian bigot, and he is a bigot against conservative beliefs, just like other whiney liberals who waste their time talking about politics just because they are a celebrity, I don't want to hear about whiney liberals talking about their politics and ATTACKING CONSERVATIVE BELIEFS.


09/13/2003 03:49:11 AM

I find it laughable to claim that the left is the enemy of freedom of speech. I recall the right claimed that anyone who didn't support Dubya's warmongering was a "traitor." It appears also that the right, as characterized by Bush and his ilk, are inclined to remove all of what we assumed were our rights as citizens. They claim to do it in the name of public safety. So who is really anti-freedom? The right or the left?


09/13/2003 03:13:29 AM

The left seems to have become the enemy of freedom of speech(example: see post below) and mainstream faith (example: see article on the left). The right does it too, at times, but the left seems to have taken the lead lately. Just an observation.


09/13/2003 02:46:20 AM

Fundamentalists seem dead terrified of Franken. They are totally scared off. You can hardly argue if there aren't any fundamentalists around to assert their lies. This is Heaven.


09/13/2003 02:11:51 AM

so that when the rapture happens and the apocalypse and all that shit, all the Jews will die in fiery hell, B-net is ok wid'dis?


09/13/2003 12:32:18 AM

Because politics by its very nature seems to involve telling lies - for some time I believed Christians shouldn't enter politics. But then someone reminded me that Jesus intentionally spoke in parables to deceive - and I realised just how near some politicians were to Christ. If God has the power to answer prayer - why did He allow 9/11 to occur? Evil God - 9/11.


09/12/2003 11:12:00 PM

One needs only to look into the eyes of George Bush to see what he really is about. The windows of the soul do not, cannot lie. As for meditation, he who sits and "meditates" is not meditating. Meditation is like: You are eating a piece of bread, and as you eat your mind is focused on it completely. This applies to anything that you do. Lastly, all that exists is a particularization of the totality of the cosmos. There is no "out there", no "heaven", no "hell". Whatever exists, exists forever, albeit it may exist in a different form. Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed, only transformed from one form to another.That which makes up your body and mind, at death will merely change form.


09/12/2003 10:01:23 PM

Mr. Franken is a bit hard on Mr. Evans. While Luke does not contain the Parable of the Talents, it does contain a nearly identical story featuring a different currency. Mr. Evans was not so far off (on the level of bare facts--I'm much more dubious about his interpretation!).