Kwanzaa and the Church

Christians need to be on guard. Politically correct Kwanzaa is working its way into the church.

bbdh

12/30/2003 03:39:24 PM

BS"D LL, I would hope that your contention is incorrect that "all of Christianity ..." It would appear from the words of your so-called "Lord" himself that the purpose of the "coming" was to make all people to BE like Him, not to celebrate birthdays and pretend to ecstasy while the entire world is going to Hell in a handbasket. Kwanzaa stands as much for the betterment of mankind as does the dream-like soporifics spewwing forth from the lips of Christian worshippers, if not MORSESO because it is rooted in REAL HUMAN EXPERIENCE rather than insipid spiritual platitudes such as "clebrating the coming ...."

bbdh

12/30/2003 03:22:39 PM

BS"D The infamous political "convert" puts his religious foot in his mouth yet again. Beware lest the evil black kwanzaa monster infiltrate your lili-white religion! (sarcasm) If CC would learn something about Kwanzaa, he wouldn't be on record with such stupidity. Aren't black Christians really Christians? Doesn't the alleged "body" include any black faces? Isn't the shared black experience precious to the god of the Christians? Obviously NOT if we are to believe CC. Let whites have their societies for social improvement and self-mastery (like DeMolay) flouriswh in the Christian church, but beware lest a black step-child rears its scarey non-white head! (sarcasm) Hasn't CC ever read Pilgrim's Regress? Why do such things have to be pointed out by a non-Christian like me? Is Christianity a white-only Christmas?

derekgilbert

12/31/2002 06:00:49 PM

Myronj: I think much of the reaction you see to Kwanzaa is due to the fact that it is an artificial holiday with no roots in authentic African tradition. Why did its founder, Ronald Everett (aka Maulana Ron Karenga) use Swahili words for his fictional feast? American blacks are primarily descended from people who came from Ghana and other parts of West Africa. Swahili is spoken in Kenya and Tanzania, several thousand miles away. In fact, in 1978 Ron Karenga told the Washington Post, "People think it's African, but it's not. I came up with Kwanzaa because black people in this country wouldn't celebrate it if they knew it was American. Also, I put it around Christmas because I knew that's when a lot of bloods would be partying."

glory2glory

12/31/2002 11:12:07 AM

P.S. I should have said "the centrality of Christ in the lives of WE who claim Him as Lord" because I do, absolutely.

glory2glory

12/31/2002 11:10:06 AM

The author is an inveterate book browser, but is "stunned" to see church bulletin covers for Kwanzaa? Why? Churches and church bulletin covers celebrate mother's day, father's day, the seasons, etc., none of which are strictly Scriptural holiday celebrations. If you're a church giving God the glory for everything, then you CAN find a blessing in all things, particularly in a holiday that celebrates the richness of culture and the strong bonds of family and community. I know of no church that is celebrating Kwanzaa as a religious holiday akin to Christmas. And, a celebration of Kwanzaa does not exclude or minimize the centrality of Christ in the lives of those who claim Him as Lord. There is liberty in Christ and celebrating the values of one's culture does not contradict that.

myronj

12/31/2002 02:26:49 AM

It is very hard for me to believe that people are actually threatened by a Kwanzaa celebration! People get real. Kwanzaa is simply a way for African American families to try to build some self-esteem and value into our children, our families, and our communities. Try to remember the turbulent times of the 60's and this may help you to understand why Dr. karenga felt that it was time for Black people to focus on the positive. Some of us may be fortunate enough to have grown up and not had to face the humiliation and degregation of those times. Many of us lived it everyday. Black churches were in most instances and (is still today) the only institution where we could learn the "real" truth about our culture. Why do we have so many black males in prisons and so few in colleges? They do not know who they truly are, only what society has stereotyped them to be. Celebrating Kwanzaa we are simply trying to educate our children and instill some pride in them.

Kristinama02

12/30/2002 08:17:46 PM

This article was very intriging to me as an african american and a christian, I do not see how Kwanzaa could be so bad. I do not celebrate Kwanzaa but I do know of people that do and it isn' this radical racist celebration based of discrimination from the 60's. I know that Kwanzaa invites all races to celebrate in the festival,but was really appauld when someone on this board wrote the kwanzaa should be celebrated during Feburary, black history month. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If that was the case, every jewish holiday would be celebrated in september and every christian holiday would be in decemeber. Please don't discount Kwanzaa as a "black" holiday just for us to celebrate, but to celebrate all together as one. We as chrstians should all celebrate each others holidays.

thinkatahigherlevel

12/30/2002 07:36:52 PM

I think that even though it professes to be a non religious holiday it is celebrated like it is a religious one. It's an academic one. I compare it to the black movement to call school age kids princesses and princes and give them traditional African names. It might be helpful to aid in the self-esteem and self-worth to some black families. So as long as it doesn't do anything harmful like the Black Panters or Black Nation of Islam or have any harmful radical separatist ideas I see nothing wrong with it.

Ceciliachild

12/30/2002 04:07:56 PM

I believe that God is shaking his head at those of you who are arguing with each other right now. Many of you are trying to prove that their own intelligence, beliefs and opinions are more valuable than the next and are bickering to prove it. This is essentially non-Christian behavior, something our Savior does not promote, yet you're fervently lashing out at others who disagree with you. You know who you are. Don't argue the principles of Kwanzaa if you yourself, do not practice the principles of your own religion.

SONOFMAN2000

12/30/2002 01:58:18 PM

What do I believe about Kwaanza? To begin, I'm not here to be racist, but truthfully, I feel the holiday Kwaanza is bunch of crock. First of all, isn't Feburary Black history month? I believe the holiday would be better appreciated if it were held in the month of Feburary when Black history is honored, not trying to compete with the celebration of the Chanukah and the birth of "peace on earth and goodwill towards humankind", which offers every person of gender and cultures a universal message of endurance in struggling over evil and hope. I look at kwaanza as a ego-centric approach to be recognized as a people unique from the rest of the masses, it offers nothing universal nor does it speak to the rest of humanity who are not of african decent. During the year in NYC, all nationality and cultures are celebrated and honored, but December is agreed by all people that it belongs to remembering G-d and His actions in human history.

frogwalking

12/30/2002 12:35:59 PM

I appreciate the chance presented here to lean about Kwanzaa. Up to now, I have known virtually nothing about it, and frankly, held it in contempt. Having read the interview with Dr. Karenga, I feel that I now understand what it is about. I think that he was being overly polite in his discussion concerning the timing of kwanzaa. He could have pointed out that Christians have no idea when Christ was born, and the date was most likely selected to coencide with the then prevalant (and ancient)pagan celebrations organized around the winter solstice. I feel the focus of kwanzaa cannot be faulted by anyone who views it with an open mind. Again, I thank you all for the opportunity to learn more of this celebration. For those of you who are hung up on the rules or regulations of one religion or another, bless you little pea-pickin' hearts.

brbarbato

12/30/2002 12:24:50 PM

Peace! Interesting discussion which just came up at our church. I think Christians need to take time to discern, not just accepting anything but discovering what has value. What we need to do is say how we will incorporate any elements into our rituals. But we have a history of adding positive elements. And, Mr. Colson, Santa kneeling at the manger is not some syncretism. Rather, it's actually a return to roots: Santa is St. Nicholas, a true Christian who would kneel at the crib. God bless you all!

derekgilbert

12/30/2002 11:57:00 AM

gwydionoak, I think you're missing the point of Mr. Colson's article. Kwanzaa is very clearly a secular festival. If any religion is celebrated at all, it is humanism. Mr. Colson simply points out, correctly, that Kwanzaa celebrations belong in a Christian church about as much as rituals to celebrate Groundhog Day.

LawrenceLee1

12/30/2002 09:15:41 AM

The Lord God commands us to be discriminating. Sometimes that can appear to be short sighted. vmontgomery, your words are empty and meaningless almost to the point of being a heritec. If you were of God you would know that all of Christianity celebrates the coming of the Lord Jesus, period. You, sir, are incorrect in your knowledge and misled by your own prejudices. Kwanzaa is NOT a religious celebration but a political statement. Your words are not from the heart of the Father, God, but rather, from the enemy of God.

vmontgomery

12/30/2002 08:05:45 AM

It comes to mind that you are being rather short sited on the issue Mr. Colson. If you took the time to study the so called Christmas holiday you would find that its orgins had no religious foundings as well. The same is true of Easter. Like Kwanzaa all of these religious celebrations were rooted is pagan rituals. None of which had any spiritual content. In fact they were just the opposite often climaxing in some type of orgie and sexual immorality. But now matter what the orginal intent. God in his infinite wisdom has brought spiritual value to these once horrific celebrations. Frankly considering the past of Christmas and Easter Kwanzaa sounds like a real winner. Our time would be better spent on other issues. Have a nice day Mr. Colson.

bbdh

12/30/2002 05:38:48 AM

BS"D With all due respect, Charles Colson, you are practicing a disgusting form of religious bigotry. Your Chrisitianity is also relatively "new" compared to our ancient Jewish rituals. You have no right to denigrate Kwanzaa simply because it is newer than your rituals. And your relative comparison between Christmas and Chanukah is repulsive to me as a Jewish person. Garvey was right. A harvest celebration SHOULD cross religious boundaries. And the Christian church did little to free the Africans when they were first enslaved. So who are you to talk about the attempts of specific Africans to reassert their religious heritage? Let us not fall into the category of religious bigot and seek to dictate all other forms of worship based upon our own as if our own were in some way superior to anybody else's.

gwydionoak

12/29/2002 08:29:08 PM

Well! Yet something else the poor paranoid Christians (as opposed to those many wonderful individuals I have met over the years who simply live as Jesus taught - they and NOT Colson deserve the term Christian)need to be "on guard against! Heaven forbid that the "pure" church be corrupted. Seems to me another group warned incessantly of how vunerable they were to syncretism, and influences from other inferior groups. They were the Nazis. Amazing how similar the rhetoric is getting as the years go by.

cacimar

12/29/2002 02:51:50 PM

This is fairly disgusting. For one, how is Kwanzaa more politically correct than Hannakuh or other heritage holidays? And why is appreciating diversity a concern for Christians? Also - Kwanzaa does have roots in antiquity. It is based on "first fruit festivals" ,which have been and are still in Africa. I'd like for any Christian to go through the seven principles of Kwanzaa and find out how it contradicts Christianity. Unity, Self-determination, Creative Work & Responsibility, Cooperative Economics, Purpose, Creativity, Faith. ooohh - scary kwanzaa.

karenwick1

12/29/2002 01:39:15 PM

This author needs to lighten up and enjoy some eggnog! Who's he to tell people what they should or shouldn't do in their churches? of course Kwanzaa wouldn't be mistaken for a religious holiday. Nonetheless, the values remembered during it would do any group of people (Christian or otherwise) good. Oh yeah, those easter egg hunts are really horrible, aren't they?

dwjaaj

12/29/2002 12:59:12 AM

Kwanzaa is a non religious culturel celebration. It was placed in December because of the harvest season in east Africa, not to compete with Christmas. Many people incorporate it in thier Christmas celebration. Kwanzaa, like christmas should be, is a time for family to be together and reflect. During Kwanzaa we don't usually exchange gifts but if we do it's something hand made not bought and it should benefit the recipent, learning about family heritage, educational, ect.. The principals: Unity, self determination, collective work and responsbility, cooperative economics, purpose, creativity, faith (whatever it is) it we all can benefit from these.

beckybee

12/28/2002 09:47:05 PM

Thank you, Queen56. As a white mother of three, I have to admit that I never gave the Kwanzaa holiday a thought. When my children ask me about it, I tell them that it is a cultural holiday (not a religious one). Now, I will be able to give them more information. I can tell you that I am not religious about anything, but I am spiritual. Christmas has become very depressing to me lately. I have been working in a department store for 18 years. I have developed a dislike for commercialized holidays. I see so much greed and selfishness in the midst of a 'giving' Christian holiday. People have changed, we have lost morals. It is important to have cultural and spiritual celebrations to teach our children. They should be PURE and UNSPOILED.(quote from David5). Peace on Earth.

ccgwin

12/28/2002 12:34:32 PM

I believe all good things come from God. To make a point consider that any real musical talent held by say "Marilyn Manson" is from God. The fact that MM does not give God credit is irrelevant. Talent held by say Yolanda Adams is from God. She gives Him credit. God alone will judge the hearts, motivations, and obedience of Yolanda and Marilyn and all of us. The tenets of Kwanzaa are good ideals. Good ideals originate with God. Do they in and of themselves bring salvation? No, just as church attendance and any number of other "Dos" do not. I think this may be a distinction that Mr. Colson would want to make sure that people are clear about. To the remark (by tmaster1) about Jesus "not" claiming [worship] to be [god] or the son of. He said "you have seen me, you have seen the Father"--pretty much claiming to be God I would say.

ccgwin

12/28/2002 12:10:59 PM

I agree that the Christian Christmas holiday needs to be clear about its purpose. That is true even without competition. I believe that the "competition" as it is perceived is a good motivator to do exactly that..to make sure that we Christians are not getting so caught up in the secular aspects of the holiday that we fail to be clear about the celebration of the coming of our Savior to finish the work of our salvation. I can understand the perception that Mr. Colson is acting out of fear or maybe even intolerance, but let's come together in unity and forgive Mr. Colson for being a human being. This short article probably does not reflect all of who he is. And I truly don't think he is an "intolerant" man in the worst sense of the word. And even if he were, we would still be required to forgive him, because "he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone" Just a few more thoughts on the next post.

ccgwin

12/28/2002 11:52:18 AM

First, I intend no disrespect to Mr. Colson. I have come to the conclusion that God wants us to be silent sometimes and speak other times, but that does not mean that the words come out perfectly. God does not require perfect vessels only available ones. Mr. Colson has been available to God in many ways and for that he is to be commended. We all desire for people to look at the good we have accomplished and not just focus on the parts that are not so perfect. Having said that, I will proceed with my other thoughts on the next post.

queen56

12/28/2002 11:36:11 AM

Christmas to him, as it was to me, is a time to give and receive gifts. My parents did not express the significance of Jesus in Christmas. My brothers and I got that from our church. I use the Kwanzaa principle of "Faith" to discuss our Christian faith and how to work that into our daily lives. It's sad to read Chuck Colson ignorant assumptions about Kwanzaa. His artilcle is filled with his fear. I heard Dr. Karenga speak here in Washington, DC some years ago about his intent that Kwanzaa be a alternative to the commercialism of Christmas. He further explained how over the years people, instead, celebrated both Christmas and Kwanzaa. He took pride in that peeple took charge of the celebration and fashioned it to their own needs instead of what he intended. As it should be. I hope this has shed some light. Maybe living in an area like Washington, DC, with a large African American population, Kwanzaa is viewed as a positive whether the majority of people celebrate it or not. Queen56

queen56

12/28/2002 11:35:53 AM

For those of you so unfortunate as not to have among their "black" friends those who celebrate Kwanazaa ... believe me, there are thousands of African Americans, Africans on the continent, and those in the Caribbean who celebrate Kwanzaa. I've been celebrating it since my son was born 14 years ago and he knows nothing of Christmas withtout Kwanzaa to follow. He has been writing in a Kwanzaa book how he practices the 7 pricincples throughout the year. Each year he adds what he hopes to accomplish for the following year. The book is a wonderful source for him to see how he did the previous year and how to prepare for the coming year. It's also a joy for me to see how his ability to express his thoughts on paper improves each year and how he adds more depth to his attempts to work the 7 principles into his daily life. Queen 56

panseyangel

12/28/2002 02:45:22 AM

I don't think this is a holiday to celebrate in a church. I know that it isn't what God wants for his children to do he wants us to focus only on him. Don't you remember the 2nd commandant he is a JEALOUS GOD AND WANTSS NONE BESIDE HIM.

charynsutton

12/27/2002 11:15:06 PM

The seven principles of Kwanzaa are: Unity, Self-Determination, Collective Work and Responsibility, Cooperative Economics, Purpose, Creativity and Faith. While Kwanzaa is definitely Afro-centric, it is not exclusionary nor does it say anything negative about other ethnicities or races. It is actually fairly widely practiced across the nation. Tomorrow I am going to a Kwanzaa Ujima program in the auditorium (not the sanctuary!) of one of Philadelphia's important Baptist churches. And finally, Christmas is in many ways a "made-up" holiday. Jesus was not born on December 25 but probably sometime in March or April. Early Christians chose this time of year because everyone else was celebrating and they could sneak their forbidden religious day in without attracting much attention. The fact that the timing is wrong doesn't take away from the specialness of the celebration.

charynsutton

12/27/2002 10:52:27 PM

I have celebrated Kwanzaa on and off since the mid-1960s. I was also in an audience where someone asked Maulana Karenga why there is no "God" mentioned in seventh principle -- faith. He said that he created Kwanzaa as a secular holiday that would not interfere with or compete with people's individual religious and spiritual beliefs and that could be practiced by people of African descent regardless of their religious beliefs. It is deliberately created with aspects from tribes/nations throughout Africa as a way to replicate the African American experience in which Africans were brought as slaves from various parts of the continent. As a Christian, I do not see any of the principles of Kwanzaa in conflict with the principles of Christianity. By the way, I have heard Maulana himself include "God" in his recitation of the Nguza Saba (Seven Principles.) Charyn

david5

12/27/2002 10:16:35 PM

These posts are going up exactly opposite of the way I intended them. Please read from the bottom up.

david5

12/27/2002 10:14:00 PM

(continued) People should celebrate whatever they want without anyone telling them how to do it. As long as it's pure and unsoiled by other people's rules. That means your pope, pastor, priest, priestess, rabi, lahma, etc. HAPPY HOLIDAYS to everyone, whatever you're celebrating.

david5

12/27/2002 10:13:39 PM

Before anyone agrees with me, that was supposed to be sarcastic. It is correct to say that ALL religions and, therefore, religious celebrations are man-made. Spirituality and religion are NOT the same thing. Spirituality is YOUR relationship with YOUR perception of a god. It should involve no one but you and your god. Religion is a set of rules thought up by some people you don't know and inserted between you and your god governing how you will relate to each other. These rules are good for keeping us in order and establishing guidelines for those of us who like belonging to a club. It's very comforting to some people to know that we can rely on other people to make important decisions for us. It's refreshing to not have to take responsibilty for our own actions.

david5

12/27/2002 10:05:10 PM

All I can say is thank goodness God and Jesus have Charles Colson handling things for them down here. How dare those people develop a cultural identity. Who do they think they are? Next thing you know the Jews are going to want to put Hannakah in December. Then I suppose the Pagans will want to celebrate the Winter Solstice in December. Where will it end? What about the children?! Has anybody thought of the children?! What kind of message does this teach them? Espescially after 9/11. We all need to get behind the President and come together as one great big Christian family. A family run by the Republican party. If not, then the terrorists have won!

cece225

12/27/2002 05:23:01 PM

on this site there are listed almost every religion imaginable, so when I read the Kwanzaa discussion I was appalled. I started to celebrate Kwanzaa last year. The princples of Kwanzaa are so positive why are the response to the holiday so negative. As for the timing of Kwanzaa, I don't think it takes from Christmas like the commercialism takes from the Christ. I think the timing coincides with New Years rather than Christmas. We need to add Peace as a principle.

tmaster1

12/27/2002 04:48:43 PM

Mr. Colson, Christianity itself is an invention. Jesus did not teach "Christianity." Jesus would never have taught that he should be worshipped as a god or the "son" of God.

DonnaRowe

12/27/2002 04:24:22 PM

Well said, Jkopanko and Spiritous! We ALL celebrate our holy days and holidays in terms of our own cultures. How else can we express ourselves except through our culture? Humans don't exist in a vacuum. To all those who honor Kwanzaa, all the more power to you. Don't let the narrow-mindedness of those who think they alone know the mind of the Almighty dissuade you from this very special time. May your coming year be filled with love, joy and community. Habari gani.

b-baggins

12/27/2002 04:17:55 PM

jkopanko, You cracked me up on this one. Since Christ created the world and us, he is, by definition, the ultimate inventor of the pro-life position. Nice to note that you got your little political zing in there, equating pro-life with anti-progress. An interesting definition of progress: the philosophy that some human beings are worthy of life while others are not. I think the Nazis called that progress, too. Or was it the Final Solution?

the_maiko

12/27/2002 03:32:37 PM

Actually, Europeans did not throw off Paganism like some sullied cloak. Many Europeans were coersed, or forced to become christian. When christianity came into power in Europe it was uses as a weapon to convert people. There is historical evidence that it was Convert or be killed at times. And you should have phrased that as "Some Europeans threw it off for ....". Paganism and European non-christian religions still thrive and have a strong base in Europe and have spread to other areas of the world. Europe is not strictly christian.

Spiritous

12/27/2002 02:43:39 PM

Such terms as 'manufactured', 'invented' and 'made up' apply to all human celebrations. The author says; "Let us be reminded worship is not for a cultural celebration, but for the celebration of the one eternal God who created and rules all cultures." Real worship is done quietly and within ones self ~ not to be piously showy to others. This leaves the group celebration to be mostly a social-cultural celebration! After all, it is not god who is celebrating, but people! People come in cultures.And a culture can only celebrate in reflection of that particular culture. This is why so many christians do not even know how to rightly follow their profesed religion of choice, because it has nothing to do with their own culture! Europeans have ancient foundations in thier cultural expression; it is called paganism.They decided to throw it off for another cuture's idea of religion...good for them! But really let the other people of the world alone!

jkopanko

12/27/2002 09:10:54 AM

"Kwanzaa is a recent American creation, not an African one." I assume Jesus invented the Christmas tree (and accompanying presents), the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, "Advent", "Lent" (etc.), Catholicism, Protestantism, the bible, the Pope, Liberty University, "pro-life" and anti-progress, communion wafers, etc, etc, etc. How ridiculous--and how ridiculously hypocritical to hold others to any different standard. Have you no shame??? Why the osessive drive to undermine and delegitimize people? Why not simply, graciously LET PEOPLE BE?

jioberly

12/27/2002 07:22:19 AM

Whether or not the celebration of Kwanzaa is embraced by the christian church, should not be the main consideration. I will agree that the celebration has not been born out of Christian heritage, but instead out of cultural pride (and that is where I strongly agree). It is high time that Christians fully embrace cultural diversity and allow it to be an issue of celebration rather than of fear and/or lack of understanding. It is also the responsibility of the church to teach the principles of Christianity and where the dividing line is between true Christian teachings and secularism.

cperrybrown

12/27/2002 03:20:50 AM

During Mr. Colson's article on Kwanzaa and the Church he states, "Let us be reminded worship is not for a cultural celebration..." We should keep in mind that Gospel music in the black church is a "cultural celebration", as are multilingual religious services. To argue that cultural celebrations have no place in religious celebrations is consistent with the arrogance of the christian right.

dss

12/26/2002 08:44:16 PM

I think many here are missing a point. It is NOT that someone doesn't have the right to make up a holiday..anyone can do that. Colson has no problem with that either. What he IS worried about it mixing an exclusively political/cultural holiday with a religious one. I am not a follower of Mr. Colsons faith tradition, but I think he is correct in this. I think culture most certainly influences religious practice to a degree but that is different than mixing a secular holiday into a religious one. I do take exception to the idea, however, of Christmas being a made up holiday. It simply was never celebrated prior to the death of Jesus the Christ. It commemorates only one man--and only because of the belief in his divinity--not a cultural "good guy" or "ideal".

Goyboy

12/26/2002 08:29:03 PM

Kwanzaa is a recent American creation, not an African one. Besides, the continent of Africa is comprised of people of many cultures. So just which culture does Kwanzaa celebrate? I suspect that Dr. Karenga placed Kwanzaa in December in order to compete with Christmas. Karenga does not claim to be a Christian, and perhaps he thinks that Christmas is a white man's holiday. I don't mind if black Americans celebrate their own holiday for they do have a common American cultural background. I just wish it were in February which is Black History Month, or perhaps during the week of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday.

kanzeon

12/26/2002 05:59:09 PM

Convicted felon Charles Colson- he of the "gallows conversion" as Luther so aptly put it- of course hasn't a damned thing to really complain about here when it comes to "manufactured" holidays! After all, Christmas IS a manufactured holiday! There is no evidence to corroborate any of the gospel narratives. The holiday was stolen from the orignal practices of Zorastrianism, and the feast of Saturnalia. Why doesn't Colson look at the plank in his own religion/culture's eye?

PastorMenyWoods

12/26/2002 05:52:39 PM

Charles Colson remarks about Kwanzaa demonstrates his inability to relate with the truth of God's Word in these challenging times. His "disgust" with the thought of Kwanzaa, as well as his confirmation of his thoughts by his "black friends" I find quite interesting yet not surprised. Mr. COlson needs to expand his "right-dividing" mind with a mind which "rightly explains." Not only himself, but his "friends" as well before taking on a subject matter which he is inadequate in understanding and discussing. Oh, that's right, his Eurocentric perspective makes him "right" I forgot "political correctness" is a term coined by the followers of Thurmond-Reagan-Lott. Kwanzaa in the African American Church is not a matter of political-correctness.

truthshines

12/26/2002 05:44:21 PM

Origins of Other Christmas Traditions http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19971201/ARTICLES/ADVTRAD1.HTM Check out the origins of other Christmas traditions. The Chronological History of the Christmas Tree http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html Follow the history of the Christmas tree through the centuries. Holidays are all made up.

truthshines

12/26/2002 05:43:43 PM

http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm\ www.didyouknow.cd/xmas/xmastrees.htm Christmas Tree Traditions Around the World http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/trees/traditions-world.html Learn about Christmas tree traditions outside the United States. An American Christmas Decade by Decade http://www.hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/AmChristmas/Am-x-mas-intro.htm Follow the story of how we came to celebrate Christmas as a National Holiday. Legends of Christmas http://www.hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/legends/legends-intro.htm Stories of how caroling, candy canes, gift giving, poinsettias and other customs became part of Christmas traditions.

truthshines

12/26/2002 05:34:38 PM

I think it is good for people of African descent to have a common cultural event. I do not think it is racist. I do not get the impression it is about africans saying they are better than any other race. Rather, the have one cultural event to celebrate positive things like community and family with the African diaspora. I see it more as nurturing and positive. ALL holidays are made up, man-made. Christmas is a made up holiday. The only difference between holidays is WHEN people made them, so it does not matter if this holiday is relatively recent creation.

lucilius

12/26/2002 03:51:36 PM

Kwanzaa's "racist, tribalist and marxist" principles horrified you, eh, zyguslane? Hmm, let's look at the seven principles it celebrates: Unity - "E pluribus unum" - can't get much more "tribalist" than that. Self-determination - Yeah, I can see commies at work in the idea of individual freedom and choice. Collective work and responsibility - essentially, the principles of modern business and international law, respectively; clear racism there. Cooperative economics - You could pin this on Marx ... but just as easily on Jesus. Purpose - If you've got any direction in your life you must be a tribalist, huh? Creativity - Yup. If you've ever had an idea, you're a racist. Faith - Why, how dare they? No normal (white) people have faith! It's awful! Riiiiiiiight.

eaddy2

12/26/2002 03:30:22 PM

First of all, Kwaanza is not for African Americans only, as it celebrates principles of family and community. I agree with the maiko's post. If you want to take the cultural celebrations from holidays, then take the Pagan rituals that were stolen by the Christian religion and stop putting up trees, using Santa (an ancient Pagan God), Yule logs and everything else. Kwaanza is not a celebration of racism or segregation. People need to be more open-minded! If it was thought up by a Caucasion, would there be such strong feelings against it?

petofi

12/26/2002 03:03:01 PM

Charles Colson has been a spokesman for the Religious Right ever since his jailhouse conversion after Watergate. His "theological" insights are rubbish in my opinion. He just went from the political Right to the Christian Right.

the_maiko

12/26/2002 02:34:35 PM

!!!!!!!! Great:) Too Funny! I'll bring the pole! Peace

AnomalousTom

12/26/2002 02:25:01 PM

Hanukkah, Christmas, and now Kwanzaa, yet not one mention on B'net of Festivus. It's an outrage I tell you, an outrage! Serenity now!!!

the_maiko

12/26/2002 11:55:01 AM

Boy can I rant, but can I put posts in order... noooo : ) Sorry, talk about instant Karma:)

the_maiko

12/26/2002 11:35:29 AM

Oh, and do we need to get into the "blood and body of Christ" rite, called communion? ...*grin*. Take this with a grain of salt, please... I think Kwanzaa is a manufactured holiday too, and not at all "Christian". I think the idea of a cultural celebration that bring together family, community and faith is wonderful, but not if it is exclusionary and bias. In this age where everything in westernized and Americanized I think more cultural celebrations are needed to preserve them and honor the traditions of the past. And no :) I have never met a single person who celebrates Kwanzaa... :) I would love if we could hear from some people who do, and see what it means to them. "Can't we all just get along" Smiles,

the_maiko

12/26/2002 11:35:23 AM

So, unless the author would like to forbid Christmas trees, Christmas lights (ancient pagan symbols for their winter solstice celebration, welcoming the light back into the world) and change Christmas back to the time of year that Christ was actually born...(In the spring, this was changed to around the winter solstice to help convert some pagan populations). Oh, and no Yule logs, mistletoe, no Santa visits for their children... No red, green or gold colors for decorations.

the_maiko

12/26/2002 11:34:56 AM

**Let us be reminded worship is not for a cultural celebration, but for the celebration of the one eternal God who created and rules all cultures. ** I think the author has forgotten that Christianity has taken on many, many aspects of other religions and cultures over time in order to covert local populations and broaden its hold on the world. If it had not, it may have died out and no longer exist. Its called adaptation, most all religions and cultures experience it some form. Why is Jesus show as a pale faced, blue eyed man with long hair? This is Adaptation. He was not anglo, would American worship a very Arab looking savior? What about a black face? he is depicted as such in some African cultures along with the Virgin. con't

beachcomber

12/26/2002 11:06:00 AM

Does anyone out there know anyone who actually celebrates Kwanzaa? I don't!! I asked a black coworker about it, and she looked at me as if I had grown another head. In the process of trying to be politically correct, we are only succeeding in confusing and alienating people. Enough already!

zyguslane

12/26/2002 10:56:20 AM

I was horrified to read the principles of Kwanzaa. It is clearly based upon racist, tribalist and marxist concepts. All invalid and destructive ideas. All failed ideas. Just another set of dysfunctional concepts that result in segregation and hatred. By the way, a racist is a person who uses race as a basis of action. It has nothing to do with so called power. Kwanza is a racist idea -- much too common in tribal lands. I am pleased it is not popular.

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