Grief and Renewal at Solstice
This winter more than ever, Solstice teaches us that no end is ever final.
12/23/2001 03:21:25 PM
Yeah, "Wiccanesque Neo-Pagan" is a little unwieldy, but I think it does a good job of covering non-Wiccan (Gardnerian or otherwise) Pagan religions that are exceptionally similiar. As for my article, here's the link - http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/91/story_9140_1.html&boardID=27431 If that doesn't work, go to the Earth-Centered page and find Samhain 2001 in the pull down bar. I'm not really harassing her about it... just me and my trickster tendencies. ;)
12/22/2001 12:20:13 AM
(cont) You wrote : "After a while, we get tired of reminding elders (who know better) not to marginalize us." Oh, please continue to "remind" - us in the Reclaiming Trad have a long history of chiding our elders - keeps everybody alert ! (snicker) Can you give me a quick point in the direction of your Samhain thread? And, much to the consternation of one particular person, I will close my post with... Bright*Blessings
12/22/2001 12:19:11 AM
ArcadianStormcrow You wrote : "I think the complaint centers around the fact that Starhawk is using the word "Pagan" . . . when was she is actually describing is a set grouping of Pagan religions. . ." I agree. After giving at least one of the Asatruar the battl.. er.. I mean "debate" that they have been reported here to like, I have decided to discard the use of the word altogether - it is just too vague to be of much use, except perhaps when talking to Christians and then I think I would be unfairly putting all of us "label-goes-here" into their preconceived box ie Pagan = Devil Worshipper. You wrote : "Wiccanesque Neo-Paganism" Well, a cumbersome word grouping, but I actually like it - it allows the grouping of strict Gardenarians with the mosre fast-and-loose type who, however much the G's scream, are for the most part based on Gardenarian Wicca. (cont)
12/21/2001 09:21:40 PM
I think the complaint centers around the fact that Starhawk is using the word "Pagan" (which applies to an awful broad range of religions) when was she is actually describing is a set grouping of Pagan religions (Wicca, Wiccanesque Neo-Paganism, etc.). The holiday she broadly attributes to all Pagans is not celebrated by all Pagans - and those that do celebrate at this time of year don't all use her reasoning. After a while, we get tired of reminding elders (who know better) not to marginalize us. On the other hand, if I wanted to be catty, I could say she's just ripping off my Samhain article, with the whole grieving part... and mine was more appropriate, given Samhain's meaning. ;)
12/21/2001 05:54:28 PM
(part 2) Yeah that's right. Asatru celebration. Not Wiccan, not pan-pagan. Yule is the Germanic/Scandinavian New Year celebration. All the tradition around Yule are of Germanic origin. Other Europeans celebrated the winter solstice in different ways, and called it different. And "We sit vigil through the night, midwives to the Dark Mother who is laboring to bring forth the Sun Child" simply isn't part of any Germanic Yule tradition. That is something Wiccans and other neo-pagans have made of it. IOW, reform mythology. Other then that, it is good that an "earthbased" article finally made it to the frontpage of Beliefnet, but it would have been nice if there had been a multi-religion approach by the writer. Instead of focusing on Wicca and Wiccanesque neo-paganism alone. Have a nice day.
12/21/2001 05:54:05 PM
Labyrinthwalker: Arrogant, overbearing and self-centered. Are you sure you weren't describing yourself here? You state a couple of gross generalisations, and you also think you can judge Selvrtanni on the basis of one post? Talk about arrogant. You don't know Selvrtanni. I do, and I know that he is the most liberal and openminded Asatruar one can find. But just like all Asatruar he doesn't like it if misinformation is being spread, especially when it concerns Yule, the most important Asatru celebration of the year. (cont.)
12/21/2001 05:33:24 PM
"it's just that they all seem to love a good debate" And damned if they aren't going to get it...:) Actually, a lot of the themes in that article are running through my Solstice, but not for the same reasons. It's been a hell of a year. My mother's been diagnosed with an incurable disease (MS), and I've spent most of the year doing nothing but fighting with one person or another over who should have the dominant claim to my schedule. A long, calm night followed by a sunrise seems only appropriate...
12/21/2001 05:18:50 PM
I have to agree with Selvrtanni, it's good to see something on the solsitce put on the front page... but, it doesn't quite sum up what I'm celebrating tonight. Me, I'm honoring Night sans mention of a solar child. I'm looking forward to a nice cold evening with a frosty walk around midnight. It's too bad that there's no sleet or snow scheduled for tonight. Personally, I get enough 'hurrah for the Sun King' type thing during the summer (of course I'm a winter baby and a little biased) And it's not that the Asatruar are arrogant, ect. (well, any moreso that the rest of us)... it's just that they all seem to love a good debate :) Tacitala
12/21/2001 04:50:04 PM
selvrtanni, Well, at least you are being consistent with every other Asatruar I've ever met... Arrogant, overbearing and self-centered. What is with you warrior-types - testosterone poisoning ?
12/21/2001 10:18:10 AM
Well, maybe it's Wiccan, but it's good to see some minority representation on the frontpage. Well done, Bnet. However. Pagans celebrate the sun’s rebirth on Solstice... Go post this on the Asatru board, see if you get a reply along the lines of "Who do you mean by pagans?" Wiccans bitch about being misrepresented by Christians. Asatruar bitch about being misrepresented by Wiccans. If you used 'pagan' to include everyone who was on the paganism board before this tension blew it apart, then the statement We sit vigil through the night, midwives to the Dark Mother who is laboring to bring forth the Sun Child. would get your ass kicked. A good step, and even a reasonable article, just needs tightening up a bit (if I may be so bold).
12/21/2001 09:40:20 AM
What child is this who brings fourth such light That all who see Him grow hopeful The Solstice candles this darkest night Rekindle a flame in our souls All Hail the Solstice Child The Sun God Brilliant The Sun God Wild Come Ye Pagans to hold Him near The Hope and the Light of the New Year... And so we begin anew. Happy Solstice and Joyful Yule to all my brothers and sisters! Pax et Fortuna!