barabis

03/01/2006 07:31:59 PM

The chosen people are the Israelites that have two consecutive dreams as Joseph did in the Old Testament to foretell the future and/or visions like the revelation prophet John. In the Old Testament the Israelites were stationed in India to Etheopia but come from every race today. There is a microbiology connection. This does not mean the Israelites are better then the genetic gentiles, but there is a bigger expectation from GOD. Now scientest can detect the genetic back ground all the way to the old country by percentages. Example: One man may be 70% Cocasion, 20% African American seven percent something else and three %something else. There is a DNA connection and the Israelite connection is all the way down to the tiny microbiology.

Heretic_for_Christ

02/24/2006 10:27:23 AM

SantaPaws, I think the meaning of conversion depends on how one defines Judaism. I can think of at least 3 meanings: racial/biological (the child born to a Jewish woman is Jewish); religious (obedience and conformity to all laws and rituals); and cultural (participation in issues and events taking place within the Jewish community. Religious conversion (which generally goes hand-in-hand with cultural participation) is analogous to adoption or citizenship within a new culture, as in the examples you cited, but I think that Mr. Wolpe was referring to the fact that a westerner cannot biologically convert to an Asian race. By the way, I long ago heard the little couplet "How odd of God..." but I never before heard the rejoinder. Thanks for this morning's laugh.

SantaPaws

02/23/2006 09:35:58 PM

- part 4 - Finally, R' Wolpe remarks that one cannot convert to being Chinese or Native American. This is not entirely accurate. A year ago NPR did a story of an American living in Japan who decided to become a Japanese citizen. The process he had to go through was as arduous as any conversion to Orthodox Judaism. He was eventually accepted as truly Japanese and given a red Japanese passport. I understand that there are Native Americans rituals for inducting outsiders to become part of that people. Calvinist Christianity has adopted the "chosenness" idea in the doctrine of predestination - that God chooses some for salvation and godly service, and others are left to the damnation we all deserve through sin. Not a palatable doctine for some, but the Calvinists see it as the logical extension of the church replacing the Hebrew nation as the "true Israel." The only problem is that the Jews are still around, and they haven't figured out what to do about that.

SantaPaws

02/23/2006 09:35:38 PM

Rabbi Wolpe is correct in emphasizing the responsibilities inherent in being Jewish. But is it possible that other people groups are also "chosen" by God for other purposes?

SantaPaws

02/23/2006 09:35:15 PM

-continued- I have known many Jews in my life, and there is a certain taint of elitist superiority among some - that Jews are better educated, have a more refined moral sense, are smarter, don't indulge in "goyishe nachas," etc. I believe one of the prayers of the synagogue, the amidah or the aleinu, has a line that thanks God that [we] are not like the Gentiles. The separateness that is necessitated by dietary laws can instill a certain smugness - we don't eat the treif garbage that the goyim eat. We are more hygienic, etc.

SantaPaws

02/23/2006 09:34:33 PM

How odd of God To choose the Jews. This couplet, written by the British journalist W. N. Ewer was apparently taken as anti-Semitic by some Jewish wag who reposted: Not odd of God; The goyim annoy 'im.

chidrake

05/30/2005 10:54:58 AM

an old friend had a saying history is the propaganda of the conquerer.first of all sadly their must be some truth to this. first of all conquerers usually wind up being conquered and they become the victum .of their own desecration of history.a lie is hard to decipher ,but if you look closely at a line that requires great emotion and leaves you feeling dissatisfied.could be a clue to find other passages with out conviction of human emotion.thats conjures up enough doubt to require further review.it might take a thousand years to find the truth buts it because some beautiful person took the time 1000year wait sounds al ot better than never.

bbittner

11/09/2003 01:00:09 PM

The idea of "chosen-ness" had always bugged me. But, the more research I have done via books and beliefnet discussion boards, the more it makes sense. Remember, chosen also means "picked." And, even though G-d is timeless, in order to teach and heal the world, he had to start somewhere. So he "picked" or "chose" one person...Avram(sp?). He wasn't raised to the sky to the sounds of an angelic choir. Maybe G-d just pointed to Avram and said "You." He had to start somewhere. Was it deliberate? Or was it random? Had G-d been speaking to the hearts of many men/women, and, for some reason, Avram was the first to hear? For those who are uncomfortable with this idea of "chosen," just think of the Jewish race as a really, really big religious order or social service association, like the Franciscans, Red Cross, NAACP, etc.

macrocompassion

06/07/2003 04:48:03 PM

As far as choice is concerned I am reminded of the story about the 10 commandmants having been carved on stone tablets being offered to the Egyptians, Midianites, Cananites etc. who all refused them for various reasons found within the writing. When offered to the Children of Israel they asked "how much does it cost?" On being informed that it comes for free, these ancesters of the Jews naturally replied "then give us two!". It was a good bargin but not everybody would agree. Does that answer the question as to who choose what?

guestinawearyland

04/25/2003 01:18:34 AM

It is completely clear in the Hebrew scriptures that the Jews were God's Chosen People. They still are. God has a free will and can decide anything He wants, the Jews were not deserving of this status more than anyone else. It was simply the whim of Jehovah. Not a jot or tittle can be taken from or added to those Words, lest the transgressor fall victim to his Sin. God's wishes must not be watered down,embarrasment or not. Do not allow the beliefs of the people in this world, that change so easily with the wind, cover the Truth under a basket. Let it Shine! God does not change.

delfentor

02/22/2003 04:06:16 AM

Each person in this world is chosen to live their purpose here fully. We become chosen when we answer our true calling whatever that may be. It has nothing to do with race or religion.

DWG

10/23/2001 11:37:44 PM

Any religion, economic system, nation, or race that claims to be chosen by God or history is guilty of tremendous arrogance. People who have such beliefs are dangerously oblivious to thier own faults and divide rather than unite humanity.

Suri-Elara

03/11/2001 07:55:43 PM

Looking back on what our ancestors had to go through, all I can say is, "God, next time, choose someone else!"

Thummin

07/07/2000 11:47:41 AM

Isaiah 53 is about Israel and Christians will understand. They will realize Jesus is the "image of God" put in the world by God himself to draw the nations to himself. They will realize soon enough the rest of the Bible is not understood till you UNITE,attach to God once again and this is the IDOLS purpose. God can make IDOLS did you know that? the Ark of the Covenant, the tabernacle and the brass serpent for Moses to lift up, the EPHOD. He can make all kinds of things to TEACH HIS creation whatever he wants. He can give us kings and Kingdoms and he can take them away in his wrath. Don't for a minute think God is so out of touch with the last 2000 years. He is in heaven watching and waiting to see what the nations will do with the ONLY ROCK of their salvation. He says in Deut 32&33, that there NEVER was another God with him, EVER. He is alone in his work; he will kill all idols when it is time. Till then, consider, maybe you have some VAIN images of God yourself.

Thummin

07/07/2000 11:40:31 AM

Haggai said the DESIRE OF THE AGES would come; The NT says GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD he gave his only begotten son so the world might be saved through him. THAT WORD BEGOTTEN son is YECHIDA, a Jewish word.all Jews are supposed to be ONE with God as the YECHIDA, and become a LIGHT to the DESIRE of the nations to be redeemed and to know God. You keep bringing up "hating your mother and father" which nobody seems to understand except ABRHAMAM who left home and country to follow a better life with God. Jesus didnt mean hate, for he said LOVE YOUR ENEMIES..he meant hate them rather than lose your spiritual inheritance. become a BIKKUR a chosen SON-Yechida, because the life of the behemot soul-material soul, will not last. I know Jews have a different mission, but understand your mission.see Gods work in the REST OF HIS WORLD. Do you think God really just put you guys here for no reason but to laugh at the goy? What a sad witness to the God of ISRAEL you are.

river8101

07/04/2000 11:49:04 AM

Judiasm has nothing in common with Christianity except they share the same (OT) Bible. Of course, Christians think they understand the meanings of the OT much better than the Jews who wrote it and developed it themselves and that is a laugh in itself. The OT tells us to honor our parents, Jesus supposedly said to 'leave your parents and dishonor them.' I wonder who really wrote those words? Proseyltizers will stoop to any level to get their message across. Other than that, the virgin birth, (a mother (goddess) a god impregnating a virgin who bears a son, the son dying and being resurrected and becoming part of the father-god, were all common pagan stories and easily adobted by a the pagan culture to which it was fed. Jesus would have either been horrified or possibly amused if he'd heard such stories spread about him. But, since most of the stories were spread among the pagans, he probably wouldn't have cared.

Thummin

06/30/2000 12:54:23 PM

If Jesus showed us anything he showed us this "CUP" that he had to drink which his true followers also would drink. ie, going through the da'at, to uproot the tree of knowledge and to find the tree of life again. It is guarded by those two swords that also keep peace from the earth. Israel is a "HIDDEN" treasure which is revealed during the time of the end. The treasure was revealed to me because I went through the regeneration. I found Torah once again. Jesus and I became one in death and this allowed me to be taken through the KOOF-100 fold value letter, which is the EYE of the NEEDLE or the narrow road to LIFE-chaya which few find. Many are called, but few are chosen. Why are the chosen chosen? They agreed to accept the Torah.

Thummin

06/30/2000 12:49:47 PM

I was leary of writing about this "chosen" aspect because I wasn't sure if I could explain it right, but God is my mouthpiece if it brings peace. The treasure-Israel is promised to Joseph in Gen 49. He would be given the treasures of heaven and the treasures of he deep. You can't get to Heaven, till you go through the deep. Mystical Judaism-Kabbalah understands the meaning of deep as the da'at-knowledge of God. My people PERISH for lack of knowledge, says God,why? Didnt they eat the tree of knowledge??? Yes, but like the sages point out, eating of the tree of knowledge BEFORE the tree of LIFE gave them SUBJECTIVE knowledge and not knowledge of God. So they have to go through the deep to get back their TRUE TREASURE, the tree of life which is understanding of the TORAH. Jesus said the children of the Kingdom would be cast into the outer darkness. I completely understand this now. The weeping and gnashing of teeth is the shame of understanding SEPERATION from God. I will continue..

cagossjr

06/27/2000 12:34:59 AM

"Chosen" means that God chose Israel, not that Israel chose God. He chose the nation as a whole, not just the tribe of Judah (Jews). The teachings of Christ and His apostles does not negate the position of Israel as His chosen people. The fact that the tribes have been dispersed throughout the world does not mean that they no longer exist. They may not know who they are but God does. That is the teaching of Ezekiel 37. There will be a restoration of the sons of Jacob. If God only operates within the realm of human understanding, we shall be most disappointed. The fact that Israel is the chosen people of God does not deny salvation to the "stranger". I believe this precept is accepted by both Christianity and Judaism.

arash

02/18/2000 09:58:45 PM

I agree with everything, but I must correct the notion that Islam vilifies the Jews. The Qur'an states that Jews, Christians, and anyone who believes in "One God" and upholds the ten commandments will go to heaven. This negates the idea of choseness. Do not confuse Islam with the acts of some Muslims.

rb67bug

02/13/2000 02:54:16 PM

I agree with Rabbi Wolpi. . . I think being chosen is conditional to the requests that God makes of us in the Hebrew Bible and the Christian New Testament. I come from a Protestant Christian background yet I feel the Jewish people were originally meant to be the chosen people. Jesus himself was born, lived and died as a Jew. This carries with it a responsibility.

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