'I've Seen the Sniper's Kind Before'

The Nation of Islam has a culture of violence embedded in it. But it's far more than that.

munir786

05/25/2006 12:16:16 PM

The nation of "islam" are not Muslims - they hold beleifs which take them outside teh fold of Islam - such as idolatry (God was a man) or their is a Prophet after Muhammed http://www.muhajabah.com/noi.htm

munir786

05/25/2006 12:10:45 PM

" Islam does not bring Democracy" which religion does? Islam is far more democratic in spirit than any other religion - not caste system (Hinduism) or group of clergy who have a monopoly on religious worship (Christainity, Judaism) "(I work in an Islamic state and see it all the time)." well.. as we Muslims living in Non-Muslim lands are frequently told (even when we are citizens) "if you dont like it .. get out "

Norm_uk

11/05/2003 01:05:11 AM

Under Sharia leaving Islam is punishable by death (no religious freedom). Under Sharia a non-muslim may not testify against a muslim (no fair trials). Under Sharia adultery is punishable by death(disproportionate sentancing for felons). Without severe brainwasing, most freedom loving people would not readily submit to this or any other archaic laws such as the Torah. Perhaps basing the penal code on them with review is an idea....but literal application is nothing short of barbaric and unacceptable in today's world.

Norm_uk

11/05/2003 12:57:24 AM

Islam does not bring Democracy. Unless the population is majority devoted Muslim any vote would remove Islams primacy...which is why many Islamic states do not have full elections. Democracy is indeed mob rule. But if the mob is educated and steps are take to minimise propoganda it can be a workable system - not a perfect system however. There is no perfect system and never has been. There is talk that America oppresses certain groups, knowingly or unknowingly. Well, Islamic states do exactly the same...no one is better than other (I work in an Islamic state and see it all the time). The original democracies limited the franchise to male landowners of a certain age. Today only minors and criminals are exempt from the vote in most nations....under Sharia a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's....I expect her vote is too?

Graius

06/10/2003 08:59:26 AM

who knows what's good or bad?

DaTRUTH

12/03/2002 02:10:54 AM

Democracy is the majority rule, not what is right rule. When alcohol was made illigal in the U.S.A. who decided it should be so? When alcohol was made legal again who decided it should be so. In Islam evil cannot be made good and good cannot be made evil:On issues where either one is good one can vote;to choose the lesser of two evils one can vote;between good and evil there is no vote. P.S. If this turns up in the wrong place please excuse it,I am responding to:-"Islam brings democracy".

grannyjaxx

11/26/2002 07:29:21 PM

Please, be gentle with each other...do not judge, unless you wish to be judged. There are so many ways in which you are alike, and so few in which you differ.

TReed

11/24/2002 01:07:56 AM

lool.. Islam, when we say its a complete way of life, it is... education, economics... any thing. Communism had flaws, it is man-made! come on.. ISLAM thats the solution. i'm sure you'll never understand.

dalans

11/21/2002 07:50:35 PM

TReed says "despots, apostates, living under a capitalist ideology that enslaves the masses to feed the few... " So now the problem is Capitalism? You should make up your mind. I thought the problem was a lack of Islam. In your utopic Islamicized world, what would YOUR economy be based on? Communism? Would the state/religion control the economy?

TReed

11/21/2002 02:23:39 AM

"As for your economic arguments, they are a different issue, but why pick on the US? There are many Muslim countries with oil wealth where the elite live in splendor while the masses live in poverty." despots, apostates, living under a capitalist ideology that enslaves the masses to feed the few. i chose to pick on the US, cause i live there, lool.

TReed

11/21/2002 02:18:51 AM

dalans the muslim populated countries are ruled under despots and apostates, how many times do i have to say this? lool. as for your point #2... i didn'tmean to place a comma in the middle of the sentence.. so it should read "in Islam there would not be a government rippin its own people off, such as almost the entire Bush administration" so your comment is irrelevant.

dalans

11/20/2002 12:25:26 PM

TReed what are you talking about? 1. "Islam brings democracy" But the entire ME is made up of Autocracies & Theocracies! 2. "In Islam there would be no government" Why is there one now? You mean after the whole planet converts to seeing things "your way"? Umm... everyone is not going to subscribe to your particular dogma. Let's tolerate our differences, INCLUDING our differences in beliefs! 3. "tell me when the average "joe" can go up to Bush and tell him his tax cut is crap..." The average "joe" might not get to have lunch with the President, but he can VOTE. Our system is about as close to a real democracy any republic of hundreds of millions can get. Expecting 'joe' to be able to shoot his mouth off to the President is unrealistic. As for your economic arguments, they are a different issue, but why pick on the US? There are many Muslim countries with oil wealth where the elite live in splendor while the masses live in poverty.

TReed

11/19/2002 11:05:46 PM

Islam brings Democracy.... America opresses the poor, the old, the young, and the colored, be they black, brown, green or orange. in Islam there would not be a government, rippin its own people off, such as almost the entire Bush administration. if this were such the democracy u claim it to be... tell me when the average "joe" can go up to Bush and tell him his tax cut is crap. that his whole, trickel down, ReGAnomics isn't gonna help anyone. that his own country will continue to be under "alert' because he is trying to kill innocent people to have his greedy hands on 10% of the world oil. i guess thats the American Dream.

TReed

11/19/2002 10:56:57 PM

walker, what are u talkin about bro? the point of reading the book if for ppl to see he was lying about everything he claimed to be and everything Islam is not. thats common sense.

dalans

11/19/2002 03:48:15 PM

TReed said: "I can't say Theocracy, won't bring myself to say it.. Islam is not just a religion, its a way of life, its an ideology its everything, its Islam, alhamduillah. " I am pleased that you have found such a wonderful all-encompassing theology TReed, but your attitude is a problem. Let's get real here. Theocracy is a government ruled by religious authority. America is a DEMOCRACY. Here we TOLERATE other people's beliefs. They might be Jews who also feel (like you) that their religion is an encompassing ideology, they might be Christians who merely go to church on Sunday, or they might be Buddhists who meditate to find inner peace. That is their business. Here in America it is incumbent on us to tolerate different beliefs and practices. I think you should bring yourself to say Theocracy, TReed. It is the honest thing to do.

WalkerTWB

11/19/2002 12:00:28 AM

Huh? So much ignorance in so few words. TReed you are amazing! Common sense is a valuable commodity. Please go out and buy some.

TReed

10/31/2002 02:39:52 PM

Jesus wasn't christian he was Jew. i do agree i encourage folks to read elijah muhammads book on what NOI is built upon. then tell me what yall think. salams.

DawnLouise

10/31/2002 12:42:26 PM

They are more christian then the appearance Jesus is given by those who claim to be teaching of Jesus. No one is more Christian then Jesus Jesus's self. To understand the Nation of Islam we must seperate the teachings from the adherents who misuse them. In so doing there is a responcibility, even more so because of understanding, to apply the same respect to Jesus. Dawn

TReed

10/31/2002 01:04:04 AM

the nation of islam is multicultural, i guess, blacks come from everywhere. but that didn't touch base on how racist it is. did u get your info about the sniper from... where did u get it? i heard he was givin info to the nation of islam. of course Pope John Paul isn't muslim, he's Catholic, and he isn't claiming to be muslim. and these two Muhammads are members of the NOI, not muslim. the media is definitly making it seem as if he is. thats tv for ya.

Crystalclearone

10/30/2002 11:47:57 PM

I Have Seen Sniping Like This Before: From Uncle Tom and Judas Combined. Nation Of Islam is a multicutural religion of peace, love and non-violent service to Gods poorest children. They are more "Christian" than Christ himself. Askia is a self serving hypocrite mouthpiece for his media slave masters. He stands in false judgement of the worth of his fellow man. Speaking of bottom feeders, he appeals to the basest instincts of hatred and fear of the poor among us. This Muhammad and the US Gulf War Veteran Muhammad alleged sniper are no more Muslim than Pope John Paul. That alleged sniper attended right wing "Christian" churches and lived at the Salvation Army Christian Hostel in Seattle. He could have gone to any Mosque, if he were Muslim. This whole thread is a set up to feed on the base hatreds and fears of Islam fanned by US State and media.

TReed

10/30/2002 03:48:25 PM

theinterp... he also wrote he is god and all his "sons" are the muslims that live in Muslim countires, thats against all sorts of reasoning, scientific included! he did however write about Black women, which I was highly pleased with. btw I have been wondering who that guy riding in the hummer 30 deep is, lool, I just thought it was another crazy Houstonian, they are all over Houston, trust me.

jkopanko

10/30/2002 11:50:43 AM

I think most reasonable, progressive people see the Nation of Islam as a dubious creation, born on a postitive motivation yet somewhat opportunistic, corrupt and plagued by an ENORMOUS chip on its shoulder--not suprising considering the social conditions to which African American people have been subjected to and had been struggling against when the group was formed, and fleshed-out, and the resultant political flux and constant struggle for basic equality. Nation of Islam has big problems and a good deal of negatiity (not as though this is suprising or unique in the realm of religions). Helping people is great. Giving people pesonal self-respect is fantastic. Helping those in need is wonderful. But throwing these things in together with anti-semitism, sexism, rigidity and judgementalism, and homophobia DOES NOT diminish the destructiveness of these problems, nor does it provide immunity from full culpability for spreading the evil, albeit along with the best of intentions.

haramcad

10/30/2002 11:10:47 AM

TReed: "Somalia is cool, ex the warlords (lool), a friend tried to assist me in speaking somali, (i guess thats the name, he never told me the technical name) but i couldn't get the sounds out with my tounge" lol. The people are called Somali, not Somalians as most people would assume. And the language is also called Somali. The warlords really tick me off. These people are willing to walk over the dead bodies of their countrymen just to make a quick buck. Somalis are a good example of how unislamic muslims can act. Mogadishu, the city I was born in, used to be such a breathtakingly beautiful city...and now it is reduced to rubble. All for nothing.

haramcad

10/30/2002 11:04:24 AM

TReed: "its a big domino effect. as for the lanuage thing, it is a misplaced modifier, (Africa is not one big country nor does it speak one language, thats what i meant i left out nor...)" I understand that. In fact, Somalia is not the norm. In my country we all speak Somali and 90-95% of the population is Somali. We are all muslim, and have the same culture. That is a rarity in Africa. Many countries have to use French or English as their national language because all the tribes that make up their populations....speak different languages.

haramcad

10/30/2002 10:56:18 AM

TReed: "they came from west africa but did u know that the ppl whom were taken into slavery were actually prisoners from wars the west had with other tribes from all around Africa, which makes it even harder to pinpoint the exact location of all slaves." That is not exactly correct. It is true that the people they sold were from other tribes, usually enemy tribes (who would sell their own). But by todays standards all those tribes lived in relatively the same area.

haramcad

10/30/2002 10:56:10 AM

continued... Africa is a huge continent. And at that time there was no direct contact between most people in the east and west coats. The friction that caused african wars was from living close to one another. So there would be no real need for a Ghanian tribe to trek all the way to Somalia. I doubt they even knew we existed. There was a slave trade in the east coast, which Somalis were very involved in, but it was with the arab world.....and even in that case the people that were sold were from areas neighboring Somali territory....Or they were somtimes brought by bought from Tanzania and Mozambique.

theinterpreter

10/30/2002 10:14:11 AM

Mr. Muhammed wrote: "Mr. [Elijah] Muhammad emphasized obedience and faith in Allah (God) above all else. Period. That is why his followers have always been unarmed since he first taught the message in Detroit in 1931." As i recall, Louis Farrakhan, in his public appearances, is always accompanied by heavily armed bodyguards. One of them is Quannel X who lives in Houston when he is not off with Farrakan. He is often seen in Houston riding with a bunch of heavily armed men in an open HumVee, and they circle the court house several times when a black man has been found guilty and is about to be given the death sentence. At other times he and his thugs drive their HumVee to downtown Huntsville and circle the prison there when a black man is about to be executed. What kind of religious order is that? BTW, black Christian activists (like Jesse Jackson) often appear at the same events (along with white activists who oppose the death penalty) but i never see any of them carrying weapons.

TReed

10/29/2002 07:31:18 PM

barka allah feek haramcad, thats why i reverted.

TReed

10/29/2002 07:29:43 PM

haramcad... they came from west africa but did u know that the ppl whom were taken into slavery were actually prisoners from wars the west had with other tribes from all around Africa, which makes it even harder to pinpoint the exact location of all slaves. thats another reason why the amount of wars in Africa increased at that time, the western tribes were actually making a prophet from the Europeans by selling the POW's to them... its a big domino effect. as for the lanuage thing, it is a misplaced modifier, (Africa is not one big country nor does it speak one language, thats what i meant i left out nor...) btw, Somalia is cool, ex the warlords (lool), a friend tried to assist me in speaking somali, (i guess thats the name, he never told me the technical name) but i couldn't get the sounds out with my tounge...

haramcad

10/29/2002 07:27:41 PM

Treed, I second that. A lot of the confusion christians have is that for most of them religion enters into their life only on sundays. Islam deals with everyday and everything in a muslims life. Anyway, macasalaama. Good night.

TReed

10/29/2002 07:22:03 PM

Miss Melanie, I can't say Theocracy, won't bring myself to say it.. Islam is not just a religion, its a way of life, its an ideology its everything, its Islam, alhamduillah.

haramcad

10/29/2002 07:20:54 PM

Otherwise Treed, I agree with you. Native Americans and African Americans have more claim to this country than any of the other groups. African Americans would be second to native americans, though.

haramcad

10/29/2002 07:19:27 PM

Treed: "my ppl could be from Sudan, or they could be from Kenya, how about Somalia or Rawanda... Africa is a vast Continent (not one single country that speaks one language" African American slaves came from west africa. Not Sudan, Somalia or Rwanda. And Somalia does speak one language, as a Somali....I would know.

haramcad

10/29/2002 07:16:53 PM

missmelanie: "I was actually referring to the "occupation" of America by white Europeans AND THE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS. Or aren't they "native" enough and not "oppressed" enough?" Ideally, I would say you are right. But the process has gone on too long to do anything about it now. Native Americans are such a tiny minority in this country and so much time has passed that there is really no point in talking about something that would never happen. In african countries, however, whites are usually less than 1%. They, their fathers or their grandfathers used to oppress the native populations....and all of them have made money of oppression and racism. The 4,000 white farmers in Zimbabwe own 60% of the good farming land in a nation of millions of blacks. How do you think that happened?

TReed

10/29/2002 07:12:04 PM

haram cab, i guess i shouldn't generalize, Africa is definitly a special case, sorry. Miss Melanie... so i can definitly say this war with Iraq is, as you would call it a "peacefull occupation?" its a colonial war... okay, u must have taken that History class in Highschool, they usually teach u lies such as that. what do u mean by this: "Black Americans of today have chosen to remain in the United Statees AT THEIR WILL." So when did slavery begin like 1500 or 1600, when did it end, say around 1870's... yeah, i guess my ppl should have gone back home. as for the Polish and Russians, they immigrated to the United States, at least u can say you are from a certain country or area. my ppl could be from Sudan, or they could be from Kenya, how about Somalia or Rawanda... Africa is a vast Continent (not one single country that speaks one language.) Ancestry is one thing, I'm black, you're white, learn to live with it.

miss_Melanie

10/29/2002 07:11:08 PM

I am the first one to say that they aren't african. Hell, I made that argument earlier today. And by the way, you seem to be confused..... I am african, not american. My apologies, I didn't read the name, I thought I was replying to TReed. Sorry about that. So if I accidentally looped my posts together addressed to you both on different points, I apologize to both of you.

miss_Melanie

10/29/2002 07:07:47 PM

In case you missed it, in my earlier post. African oppression under whites is a very recent thing. My father spent the first 20 years of his life living under colonialism. Now would you expect the very whites who came to my country, committed all those horrible crimes to have the same rights as the actual natives of that country? Hell no. I was actually referring to the "occupation" of America by white Europeans AND THE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS. Or aren't they "native" enough and not "oppressed" enough?

haramcad

10/29/2002 07:07:18 PM

missmellenie: "No the slaves were brought here against their will. Black Americans of today have chosen to remain in the United Statees AT THEIR WILL. Therefore, they aren't African." I am the first one to say that they aren't african. Hell, I made that argument earlier today. And by the way, you seem to be confused..... I am african, not american.

miss_Melanie

10/29/2002 07:05:41 PM

Theocracy: noun, religious form of government. 2. ruled by a religion OR organization of religious clergymen with ascendancy. My argument stands, it applies to any government which religion is allowed into it's legislative process. You seem to denounce the U.S. because it's secular, government speaking of course, because many Americans are religious. Yet you haven't addressed the problems which would be created as a result of abandoning secularism.

haramcad

10/29/2002 07:05:10 PM

Miss Melenie: "Well in that case, many white people can't claim to be Americans through decent---or did you forget American History I---the colonization period. I wouldn't call it "peaceful occupation." In case you missed it, in my earlier post. African oppression under whites is a very recent thing. My father spent the first 20 years of his life living under colonialism. Now would you expect the very whites who came to my country, committed all those horrible crimes to have the same rights as the actual natives of that country? Hell no.

TReed

10/29/2002 07:02:41 PM

haramcab, whoa, :) Miss mealanie, omg... I would defintly not encougourage any black person to run for any office or vote for that matter, they would be submitting themselves to man for man. how about we give some resepts to the one who created us and live under the Law He(swt) has perscribed for us. your outlook on a government run by Christians is exactly right, they would make u do christian things because how can u not be christian! they make u attend Christmas plays and participate and celebrate Easter by chasing eggs at recess... anway, why would your child be participating in a Yom Kippur atonment? Jews get that day off, everyones at home, fasting and acting as if it were Shabbot. living in the US does not ensure u stay what u are, look at how many capitalist there are runnin around this place! and come on, how many jews really keep a kosher house? if god does not belong in a free nation, then where else should He (swt) be? I thought he was the sole founding father of freedom.

haramcad

10/29/2002 06:56:33 PM

Treed: "so True... thats becasue they are run under despots and can't decifer whats Islamic or whats despotic, u get me?" I think it is more of a cultural issue. These issues were there before these rulers and even before Islam. In my country, for example, there is such overt racism to the bantu minority that it would be shocking to any american. It doesn't matter a bit that the bantus are muslim just like the cushitic majority. The point I wanted to make is that muslims are not saints. And thinking we are would keep us from improving ourselves.

miss_Melanie

10/29/2002 06:55:57 PM

I wouldn't agree with that. White people who live with Africa weren't invited in by the natives, and they weren't brought in. Instead they came under the shadow of the gun and brought with them violence and subjugation.... Well in that case, many white people can't claim to be Americans through decent---or did you forget American History I---the colonization period. I wouldn't call it "peaceful occupation." So, as an actual African, I wouldn't consider them to be africans. Black Americans are a different case. They were brought here against their will. No the slaves were brought here against their will. Black Americans of today have chosen to remain in the United Statees AT THEIR WILL. Therefore, they aren't African. You want to be African, or Polish or Russian or whatever, so bad--then be that. The United States doesn't honor dual nationalities for naturally-born citizens. Ancestry's one thing, and it's just that ANCESTRY. I can relate to ancestry...I have it too.

TReed

10/29/2002 06:49:25 PM

miss melanie.. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, uhm... thats Taboo in Islam. as for a Theocracy, that is usually defined as ruled by God by clergy men claiming a divine authority.. there are not clergy men in Islam, therefore, thats not what I really call a good system. Under an Islamic system, people are free to practice what they want, no mistake. I assume u said Saudi Arabia, I'm not sure why you said KSA you can be man, woman, black white, muslim, arab, christian (4%), hindu & buddhist (yes they have 2%) and whatever else u want there. can u expand on the KSA thing for me pls...

tinkerbee

10/29/2002 06:47:28 PM

paulaedwine: pbuh stands for peace be upon him saw is the same thing only it stands for the arabic version of it. if i were to write the arabic in english it sounds something like this: Salla Allah ah-lay-he Wa-salam thats the best i can do thanx for asking =)

miss_Melanie

10/29/2002 06:44:34 PM

I'm not trying to sound ingenous or naive, because I'm not. I understand that no black person has been president, and in general a lot of white people wouldn't like it if it were so. Well that's too darn bad for them, because one day, mark my words, there will be a black president, a woman president, etc. There are many blacks and women involved in some of the highest, and most respected, forms of our government--senators, reps, governors, etc. As for religion, religion doesn't belong in the government of a free nation. That's not to say that you can't believe as you wish, actually it ENSURES that you can believe as you wish. If I were still Jewish I would NOT want my child praying Christian prayers, and as a Christian I wouldn't want my children praying to Mecca, and as a Muslim you wouldn't want your child participating in a Yom Kippur atonement service. Thank God/Allah that the U.S. is a secular nation. tbc

haramcad

10/29/2002 06:44:16 PM

continued... missmelenie: "There are also white people who are African, and they are more African than any black US citizen" I wouldn't agree with that. White people who live with Africa weren't invited in by the natives, and they weren't brought in. Instead they came under the shadow of the gun and brought with them violence and subjugation....all relatively recently. So, as an actual African, I wouldn't consider them to be africans. Black Americans are a different case. They were brought here against their will, and with their blood and sweat helped build a nation that was holding them captive. So they, more than any white american or immigrant, have earned the right to call themselves Americans. Immigrants to this and other countries have to get the permission of the native population before they can become citizens. So they are given the right to call themselves americans.

haramcad

10/29/2002 06:43:53 PM

continued.. Whites living in Africa, were never given permission by the natives and they weren't brought their. Instead they came to persecute Africans and rob the land. So, no.... I don't think they have done anything to earn the right to call themselves africans.

TReed

10/29/2002 06:39:44 PM

haramcad.. umust be online now, anyway... "But the reality is that many muslims around the world give more weight to cultural prejudices than Islamic teachings. Or more than likely confuse the two." so True... thats becasue they are run under despots and can't decifer whats Islamic or whats despotic, u get me?

miss_Melanie

10/29/2002 06:39:29 PM

TReed, Your argument seems to be based on the precedent that theocracies (or a people sharing the same religious beliefs) are a good thing. Name one theocracy that has been successful, in that NO minority of any sort was oppressed? Look at Saudi Arabia, how many Christians/Jews (or any other faith) can walk down the street and claim it? The Middle East is not the paragon of equality. In truth the United States is one of the countries (there are quite a few others, predominately in Europe) that are the closest thing to being the paragon of equality. I'm not saying that there aren't racists in this country, there are--and plenty of them, on all sides of the racial spectrum. But in the United States, you can IN THEORY be man, woman, black, white, purple, and be anything you want to be. tbc

TReed

10/29/2002 06:36:09 PM

by the way haramcad, I would think it absurd if in the year 2400 ppl are still callin Blacks African Americans! We don't have any claim to Africa now, that whole Pan-Africa movement went out a long time ago brother, a loong time ago. African's don't even acknowledge Black ppl as being African-Americans, i wonder when everyone else will start? oh and PLEASE NEVER compare JEWS to blacks, thats my biggest pet-peave. U do have to realize bro blacks were brought over here on ships to be slaves, Jews were banned from European countries cause they were too Jewish... I'm not seeing the connection. I doubt the slaves were happy when they got here I see the Jews have intergrated just fine... as For Jews out of Palestine, you're talkin 1095, when Pope Urban II launched the Crusades. When Palestine was occupied and made Israel I didn't see any Jews fleeing... salams.

haramcad

10/29/2002 06:34:36 PM

Treed: "in a Muslim country, thats where there are no color boundaries, because everyone shares the same beliefs and can call one another brother/sister." I really wish that were true, Treed. But the reality is that many muslims around the world give more weight to cultural prejudices than Islamic teachings. Or more than likely confuse the two.

TReed

10/29/2002 06:21:35 PM

haramcad, cute name... the statement i made was a quote by Farrakhan in a speech he made after he visited Iraq (Bahgdad). The thing is blacks are oppressed in this country and so are a lot of other minorites and ppl not making a decent living. The point farrakhan was trying to make is we have problems of our own to fix in this country. the fact that they wanna go bomb a country to get more control in the oil market is not what we need to be workin on right now.

TReed

10/29/2002 06:21:18 PM

cont... as a Muslim i know that America has NOT instilled "a democracy that would work for the people." it is based on secular teachings, u know, seaparation of religion from life. how many times do i have to say this! the US terrorizes lots of folks daily and helps to encourage the terror in other countires (Israel, Russia...) I do agree overthrowing Saddam is good, he is a dictator but doing so just for money, thats plain foolish. America would help to build Iraq back and put up a puppet as leader so that they can rape Iraq of its largest means of income. Saddam didn't call me a nigga but the terrorists that live right down the street did...

TReed

10/29/2002 06:10:13 PM

miss melanie, i wish the Unites States was someting like that too... we didn't ask to be called African-American, although I could actually blame that on Jesse Jackson, cause I am not African nor have I ever been there. But its the "technical term" even the Native Americans are hyphenated. I can honestly say that it is always hard to talk about race related issues with white people because do to their "whiteness" they are blined by the fact that there are prejudices in this country and for all the positive language you will use is great but it won't change the fact that this country is split racially right down the middle. in a Muslim country, thats where there are no color boundaries, because everyone shares the same beliefs and can call one another brother/sister. In the states i'm black around my true brothers and sisters, i'm muslim. how about u just start saying Black Miss melanie, or are u uncomfortable with that term? a lot of ppl are, what can i say, thats America.

TReed

10/29/2002 06:03:43 PM

paulaedwin (saw) means... sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam, if ic an translate correctly it mean, May Peace and Blessing from God be upon him. it is said whenever there is any mention of a prophet.

miss_Melanie

10/29/2002 05:59:25 PM

Scorpio, Hey guess what scorpio, if you're an "African American," please stop calling me white or caucasion, because I am an EUROPEAN American. My ancestors came from Germany and Czechoslovakia. Does this mean that I can claim Germany as my homeland? OR should I, as well as every other American, throw out the racial ancestral titles and just be American? They won't let you back into Africa as a citizen of such and such, just because your black (assuming that you are). Just as they aren't going to let me back into Germany because I'm German. Let's face it, you're either American or not, and it doesn't matter where you came from. There are also white people who are African, and they are more African than any black US citizen, since those white people live there as citizens.

paulaedwina

10/29/2002 02:57:53 PM

DeucePrez, What does "saw" after the prophet 's (pbuh) name mean? I know pbuh is "peace be upon him" but I've never seen "saw".

jinxcat

10/29/2002 01:03:07 PM

I don't care how many white Catholic friends Farrakhan has - he still spouts anti-Jewish, anti-gay, anti-white comments. He has some white allies, so that makes it ok? "White people are potential humans…they haven’t evolved yet." Philadelphia Inquirer 3/18/00

haramcad

10/29/2002 12:41:50 PM

TReed: ", even though i do agree "Saddam never called us a nigga" " That might be true, but you and he are missing the point. Saddam terrorizes a nation of 20 million on a daily basis. He kills people for little more than pleasure, and the fact that he never called you nigger is irrelevant. As a muslim, you should be against oppression and injustice regardless of race, sex or religion. Overthrowing Saddam would be a good thing. My only reservations about a war in Iraq is what happens the day after. Would America install a democracy that would work for the people. Would they fix what they destroyed in the war. And finally, would they provide adequate help with the transition.

haramcad

10/29/2002 12:34:40 PM

scorpio1973: "They do not preach that blacks are above, but is told that we are the first of God's creations and that all nations rose from us." That is another reason why the Nation of Islam, regardless of its name is not an Islamic organization...and its followers are not muslims. The Quran NEVER says that blacks were created first, or that all races came from blacks. It never mentions Adam (pbuh) or Eve's race. The NOI is built around an inferiority complex that was understably created by years of oppression and subjugation.

haramcad

10/29/2002 12:28:00 PM

scorpio1973: "Did we not have and still have the right to claim Africa as our homeland?" There is no way to say this without ruffling feathers, but no you don't. Although African Americans were taken by force from Western Africa, what was once a forced exile became a voluntary one.....and what is when the claims end.

haramcad

10/29/2002 12:27:33 PM

continued... Millions of african Americans have had enough money to go back to their "homeland" for atleast 2 generations now. The fact that most of them have not gone is a concious decision and when African Americans and their descendants conciously decide to live in America for generations....they can't expect to have the same claim to the land as Africans have. They can claim descent from Africa, because they did. But they are Americans, because this country is the only one they can lay claim to. Its is the same similar to the situation with Jews. Many of them were forced out at one point in history. They were effectively in exile. During, and soon after that exile they and their descendants still could claim that Palestine was their homeland, cause they had been forced to leave and stay away.

haramcad

10/29/2002 12:26:58 PM

continued... But the Roman Empire collapsed a long time ago. And a forced exile turned into a voluntary one. Generation after generation chose not to go back. And once that happens, they lost all claim to that land...atleast in comparison to the people who lived their before Zionism.

haramcad

10/29/2002 12:26:25 PM

continued... The point is, I think it would be absurd if in the year 2400 African Americans...living in the US....are still arguing that they have equal claim to Africa, as the people who actually live there.

DEUCEPREZ

10/29/2002 11:54:05 AM

jashan: ALL religions should attract "'unwholesome' people", as you put it. Not because of some negative attribute or reputation of that organization, but because of its potential to help change that person for the better.

DEUCEPREZ

10/29/2002 11:49:11 AM

Jinxcat I was not demeaning you OR experience with the members of the NOI that you encountered. However, they are NOT necessarily representative of the group, as a whole. I am speaking in general as MOST people who have these negative opinions have not so much as said, "Hi" to any member of the NOI, let alone done any REAL research on the organization. One of Min. Farrakhan's closest friends is Father Pflager (sp??) who is a White Catholic priest in the Chicago area. I've seen him treated with MUCH respect on many videos of Min. Farrakhan's lectures. No, I cannot and will not attempt to name or list ALL of his White friends and/or acquaintences. :-) Let's keep it real, shall we?? No....I am not White, so I couldn't possibly understand your perspective in talking with members of the NOI. I am sorry that these people acted other than what they should have toward you.

jashan

10/29/2002 11:46:45 AM

This half disappoints me and half gives me hope. On the one hand, someone's finally explaining that even though a religion may, in fact, have a good/benevolent ideology, it can nevertheless attract all manner of "unwholesome" people to it simply because it is either 1) different or 2) has a bad reputation. On the other hand, it disappoints me that I don't see this kind of defense for other religions or organizations. The backlash against Islam since 9-11 has made people quick to defend it, but they aren't extending their sudden "fair-mindedness" to other religions. Specifically, I'm thinking about my religion - Satanism. If the sniper were a member of the Church of Satan, I highly doubt Beliefnet would have a front page editorial explaining how Satanism attracts criminals by virtue of its reputation, despite the fact that we're a legitimate and non-harmful religion.

jinxcat

10/29/2002 11:21:36 AM

"To accept your own means yourself and your kind, your God Who is of you and you are of Him. It was your fathers who created the heavens and the earth, while there is nothing that the white man has created independently. He did not even create himself. The Black Nation is self-created, while the white race is made by one of the gods and scientists of the Black Nation" (Elijah Muhammad, Message to the Blackman, 42).

jinxcat

10/29/2002 11:01:45 AM

deuceprez: Are you white? If so, try talking to some NOI members. From what I recall, they used to push past me like I was not there in order to talk to the black employees at my job and left in our break room their newspapers filled with anti-white rhetoric and demands that the U.S. give African-Americans a big chunk of land to settle and financially support them for 20 years while they got their nation on its feet. Their wives would insult me and call me a white devil when I walked past them to get to my apartment every night. I am not speaking from hate website, I am speaking from experience.

nargis

10/29/2002 10:32:52 AM

All of the psycoanalizing is premature. People are trying to explain the reasons why this guy/guys killed. We don't "know" he did it! He has not been convicted of anything, yet, except in the court of public opinion.

DEUCEPREZ

10/29/2002 10:01:57 AM

Jinxcat: You stated: "NOI teaches that black people and other non-whites are racially superior to whites." Actually, that's not true. That what you may have HEARD that they teach, but that is NOT actual fact. You may have also heard that they do not believe in Phophet Muhammad (saw). That is also not true. They also know and study his last khutbar (sermon) wherein the Prophet (saw) stated, "There is NO superiority of the Arab over the non-Arab or the non-Arab over the Arab, or the White over the Black or the Black over the White. But he it is who is most pious." And they BELIEVE that. I have read TOO many websites where the teachings of the Nation are misconstrued (intentionally or otherwise) and/or misrepresented. People should do more study of the Nation of Islam before designing websites for the SOLE purpose of downing the organization outright. Many of the so-called beliefs are not or no longer practiced and they are coming more and more in-line with the "orthodox" practices of Islàm.

jinxcat

10/29/2002 09:13:09 AM

revspeights, I don't agree with you that NOI and Islam come from the same base. Ask a non-NOI Muslim if they believe that white people were created by an evil black scientist sometime. In this guy's article he says that NOI is not racist. Who is he kidding? NOI teaches that black people and other non-whites are racially superior to whites. It is not a huge secret or anything. I used to live and work in an environment where I was around many many NOI members. Read their newspapers sometime.

revspeights

10/29/2002 08:11:03 AM

NOI and Islam are no different than Christianity as it relates to zealots. We are living at a time where so called Christians have completed the slaughter and taking of the Indian lands, African resources, South American agriculture and has functionality assumed control of the world's economic viabiity. We Christians can rest in what prior Christians have done. However, taken lands, economic bases, cultural norms, and all the transient things of life gained through the arm, must be held with the arm. The Word is true whatsoever one sows, one must reap. You sow to the wind, you reap the whirlwind. The Christian base and Islamic base have and will forever struggle and be used as pawns in the hand of Satan. Only Christ will set things in order when he returns.

TReed

10/29/2002 02:27:03 AM

hmmm, interesting article, and i don't have anything against my black brothers and sisters and and i do think that farakhan is a charismatic speaker... but when it comes to what is really important, the Nation of Islam does represent true Islam. for a moment in time, the NOI changed and started to actually pray correctly and learned about the 5 pillars in Islam. but somehow farakhan got up in there and 'returned back to traditions.' as a proud black muslimah, i am appaled by the teaching of the NOI, even though i do agree "Saddam never called us a nigga" i don't agree in the teaching of hatered of white ppl. Islam, the True islam, has taught me to accept all my brothers and sisters in Islam as equall black, white, mexican, turkish, anything! no, i'm not quoting Malcom X's book...

TReed

10/29/2002 02:26:52 AM

I encourage ppl part of the NOI to pick up a copy of the Quran, with arabic and english, possibly the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation... and read watch videos about muslims in other parts of the world and just accept that jesus was a decent of the children of israel. "America built by African men", now that is definitly true. salams

themarirev

10/29/2002 02:01:17 AM

scorpio1973 Reguarding your multiple posting, be patient. One click is all that is necessary. While not primarily addressed by Abrahamic religions, the law of Yin and Yang does exist. No organization, religious or otherwise can claim complete purity, else sin would not exsit. Rev

scorpio1973

10/29/2002 12:42:09 AM

What is up with the word homeland in quotation marks? Do other religions believe that African-Americans were not descended from slaves brought over from their native homeland? Did we not have and still have the right to claim Africa as our homeland? I think it sounds like the person who wrote this article obviously does not have a foothold on the history of NOI. They do not preach that blacks are above, but is told that we are the first of God's creations and that all nations rose from us.

revinpitts

10/29/2002 12:17:55 AM

I have no particular desire to defend the NOI, which I do not regard as truly Muslim. But I don't see any real reason to blame the group for the sniper's behavior. Malvo appears to have murdered a Black woman in Alabama, and some of the victim's in the DCarea were people of color. They don't seem to have been carrying out any particular agenda to punish the white power structure. They are just a couple of psychos, and one of them had some affiliation with the NOI.

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