The Theology of Suicide Bombers

Does Islam condone suicide bombings?

AFC_member

08/07/2002 04:56:30 PM

Your little allah is NOT God. He is just an idol Muhammed chose to be the supreme deity when he got his ideas about Islam from the demon in the guise of one of the holy angels. The Holy Bible makes it clear that if any comes preaching another gospel than that already delivered to the saints of Jesus, let that one be accursed. The religion of Islam is founded on the message Muhammed allegedly received from "Gabriel." What he didn't know was that it was simply another trick by satan to deceive mankind, and it worked. Islam is a false religion, worshipping an idol, and will soon be revealed as such to all people.

AFC_member

08/07/2002 04:46:07 PM

God is NOT the same as allah. That word, allah, is just the name of a little god they used to worship back in the day, who Muhammed decided was the high, supreme god. THE One True God is named JESUS. CrazyZubuk, you as a former Christian should know that, of all people. But you never were a REAL Christian, were you? Never obeyed Acts 2:38, for starters, I'm sure, because if you had, you never would have left the TRUTH you allege to have once known for the LIE you now follow.

CrazyZubuk

10/16/2001 11:08:35 PM

Hey Truthseeker77, All you wrote was incomplete--you can hate muslims, but you don't have to lie this much about the Qur'an, don't just quote one sentence from any homepage and say that is what the Qur'an says about a certain topic. If you would actually go and read those parts, you would be embarrased that you wrote what you did. Sura 9:5 is talking about polytheists during the Prophets' time who broke their treaty and killed/attacked all muslims--it is not talking about "unbelievers". If you would have actually read that you would see that. If Islam was such a bad religion then all 1.6 billion muslims would be terrorists. Including me, an American born muslim, who used to be Christian. I know Christianity more than most Christians (I was teaching bible courses). I hope someday you won't have to lie about Islam. God=Allah. It's just the arabic name for God.

Ayse500

10/15/2001 09:03:43 PM

Also, one more thing Mr. Truthseeker, If you go on to read 5:34, it says: "Except for those who return repenting before you overcome them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful".

Ayse500

10/15/2001 08:54:35 PM

Hey Mr. Truthseeker, The meaning of Sura 5:33 is NOT to persecute non-muslims, why didn't you put the ENTIRE verse there while you were quoting it? I will put the entire tranlation of the verse down, and then explain it. "Indeed the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth to cause corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment," --"waging war" means committing acts of violence and terrorism against individuals or treason and agression against the Islamic state. It is NOT talking about those who resist Islam. The Qur'an says: "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256) The Qur'an says that "Whosoever wills let him believe, and whosoever wills let him disbelieve" [18:29].

MarkAlan

09/21/2001 02:16:17 PM

You know what, any American's, whether it be Christian, Muslim, or whatever faith...we are in this together, because we were all affected by this in one way or another. Now, I don't condone violence or war necessarily, but I think it is necessary that the U.S. take action to try and rid the world of these kind of radical 'believers'. However, I think that we need to ALL come together. Forget race. Forget religious faith. Forget partisanship. Let's all get behind our beloved nation...the great U.S.A.! MarkAlan

shireen19

09/17/2001 12:52:44 AM

Jihad of the sword is if you are under attack and suicide bombing is not jihad of the sword in any way you cant say oh cause im a soldier most likely im gonna die in war so let me go head and bomb myself along with my enemies. You cant do that because what if rubina (God) doesnt have death written for you even if you fight in the war,maybe your family may be lucky to see you again. Its not jihad at all, its taking your life into your own hands its suicide and that lands you in hell .

chitownmommy

09/17/2001 12:41:34 AM

a friend who is arab American came over last nite we talked about what was going on and tried to give me some knowledge about her family and fews on what is going on she had told me about the palastinans and jews the people would like to live toghether but the leaders r land happy she also told me how the american goverment backs up the jews and that why some arab americans are not very happy i just thought i would relate what i learned last nite i must say it is very rude when you amongst a group of people who speak aribic and you dont have a glue what they are saying i think i should educate myself on the language i would feel a bit better

truthseeker77

09/16/2001 11:12:20 PM

The terrorists and all fanatic Islamic terrorists were just following the many verses according to Jihad (that Afghanistan prepared it's citizen's for - Holy War). The moderate, Muslims who condemn such violence would also be in danger in some countries by these extremists who are just obeying the Qu'ran. Since Mohummed spread the faith by the sword, IT IS ILLEGAL UNDER DEATH PENALTY TO SHARE FAITH IN CHRIST OR CONVERT FROM ISLAM. This is oppressive and displays NO freedom whatsoever! Sura 9:5 "Fight and slay the pagans [i.e. unbelievers] wherever yefind them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in EVERY stratagem of war." This is not just defending oneself as people claim about these verses, but clearly OFFENSIVE murder.

truthseeker77

09/16/2001 11:09:14 PM

How about those who resist Islam? Sura 5:33 says: "Their punishment is...execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from the opposite sides, or exile from the land." Many Christians have been crucified in Sudan and Algeria in the name of allah. U.S. Missionaries and those who converted in Afghanistan have their lives hanging in the balance (could be killed) in the name of allah. New York and the Pentagon was in the name of the false god "allah". I know (and have many Muslim friends who I have been witnessing to - that would get me killed in many countries) who condemn the slaughter of innocents, but that doesn't change the facts that Mohummed was a False Prophet.

truthseeker77

09/16/2001 11:07:59 PM

Jesus warned us many times of False prophets. Matthew 24:11 is one of many such warnings. "And Many FALSE prophets shall rise, and shall decieve MANY." We have seen many and there are many on the way. People bring up the inquisition, etc to denounce Christianity, but no where did those decieved people back then who perpetrated such crimes find direct commands or insinuations from the Bible, like those who murder in the name of allah do today. I thank all mature, open-minded seekers of Truth and reality for reading this.

Barrett01

09/14/2001 07:57:20 PM

Justice will come. So will final judgement from Allah. O you who believe! When you conspire together, conspire not for crime and wrongdoing and disobedience to the messenger, but conspire together for righteousness and piety and keep your duty toward Allah, unto Whom you will be gathered. -Qur'an, Surah 58:9 Also the Bible states the "Golden Rule" do unto others as you would have others do unto you. ( own rememberance of verse) Who coud say it better than Allah or God? (one in the same only a name change.)either religion says the same thing Christian or Muslim. Stop and think beore you let hatred and anger drive you from the paths of the creater. Peace be upon the profet Mohammed and Jesus Christ, and lastly, all of us as these are trying times. My prayers are for all of mankind as well as for those who this tragedy has nearly destroyed. Peace

Barrett01

09/14/2001 07:57:02 PM

and that all should embrace one another because among the rescuers all all races, among the victims are all races, among Americans are all races and among all races are my brothers and sisters. Pray for the victims, the rescuers, the attackers (as I am sure that Allah is dealing with them and mercy is not too much to ask, even for them)and for all mankind to find peace,understanding for one another and tolerance.

Barrett01

09/14/2001 07:56:22 PM

. I do not understand why attempts that have been made to perserve the lives of those in one country from the overwhelming attacks of another are perceived as a threat to Islam by zealots. Because we aided people who were becoming the victims of attrocities. We aided the enemy. God knows the intents in every mans heart and will judge each accordingly. I believe that tolerance, understanding and compassion are the only things that will bring world peace. I believe that violence breeds violence. I believe that the attacks on Muslims in this country should stop and stop now!!

Barrett01

09/14/2001 07:55:33 PM

I believe that Allah wants us to spread his word with truth not by the attempted anhilation of other races or non believers. Conversion not commacazis is the only way. It is believed that this is a jihad by the faction that carried out these attacks. There was nothing holy about what they did and claiming these things in the name of Islam and telling others that God will aprove and reward them for what they did is beyond my scope of understanding. I believe that to have a holy war there must be to foes of different beliefs attepting to use force or whatever means nessicary to perserve their religions from attacks against it. I may not always agree with the causes of the United States but I stand behind this country and the decisions that have been made

Barrett01

09/14/2001 07:53:27 PM

. These people believed what they did was right but there will always be people who are mislead and overly eager to act. There are always going to people who are going to resort to violence as a first means because they know no other way, or have the same mentality as Jim Jones, Hitler, or our own home grown KKK. I believe that you can not condemn an entire race of people for the actions of a few. I believe that every man is my brother and every woman is my sister. I believe that Allah does not want violence for a misguided cause. Islam will not be wiped out by any one. God has controle of these things and no one has that ability. .

Barrett01

09/14/2001 07:49:40 PM

I believe that finger pointing and hatred for one another is exactly what Satan wants. Undoubtedly, he is dancing with joy at the strife that this has created between us all. I believe that tolerance for one another is very important. This country, the USA was built on the belief that any one in the world who wanted freedom was welcomed with open arms and that different beliefs and ideas are expected and tolerated and that we are all brothers and sisters as Americans and as humans.

robinartisson

09/14/2001 02:42:46 AM

Connie: pack your bags and move to the middle east. If America is so bad, go wrap a towel around your head and let the arabs treat you like an animal, because that is how they treat women out there. And don't steal anything, unless you want your limbs hacked off. Oh, and don't have sex with anyone but your husband, unless you don't mind being KILLED. We wicked americans, who are such villans, we won't do that to you, but THEY will. In a heartbeat. And by the way, not every major world religion has "unacceptable" doctrines: look at Buddhism. Find me a SINGLE place in a Buddhist sutra that says to kill or hurt someone for any reason. If you really had studied major world religions, you'd know that it's basically only these horrendous middle-eastern religions that preach and glorify violence. Once you are done looking over the buddhist scriptures, get the hell out of my country.

robinartisson

09/14/2001 02:39:11 AM

motherofhassan: You don't understand english very well. Once again you have tried to insinuate that I am somehow in favor of blood raining from the sky, or people being annhiliated. I regret that these things are about to happen, but they are. Islam and its bloody cultures are about to learn a terrible lesson. They brought it on themselves. War is not "annhiliation" of enemies. War is a declared state between two governments. War is an organized crime racket that openly takes lives. WAR is not what WE want. WAR is what MUSLIM TERRORISTS have brought us to. I can't say I'm going to miss those terrorists too much, either. Or the cities that get flattened and the governments that fall for aiding and sheltering them.

connietyl

09/13/2001 07:18:44 PM

Violence breeds violence. I believe that this horrible act of terrorism is a direct result of the violence and terrorism we Americans have perpetrated on other people in the world. We set ourselves up as a target of hatred. When we bomb Iraq and children are maimed and killed one of our leaders said it was an unfortunate necessary expedient. Perhaps these terrorists took these words as an example of how to act and decided that killing all these innocents was an unfortunate necessary expedient. The only way to stop violence, is to stop our own violence and to love our enemies and to SEE them. I believe we the citizens of this country are blind to the citizens of the rest of the world. We don't want to see them. We don't want to know what our consumerism costs them.

connietyl

09/13/2001 07:18:18 PM

I consider myself to be multifaithed, and have studied many of the scriptures of the world's religions in depth. In each there are unacceptable tenets, and in each there are beautiful expressions of ways to live with each other with love and compassion. This is true without exception. We choose which of the words we want to live by. In each religion there are groups of people who choose the words of intolerance and hate, and groups who choose the words of love and understanding.

jhhastings

09/13/2001 05:33:50 PM

Despite the dictates of a particualr faith, be it Christian, Muslim, Judaism or whatever - the undeniable fact is that human nature leads us always to these arbitrary distinctions, gross generalizations and a compelling need to demonize the "other". Now is the time to look to the best that lies within all true religious teachings: compassion, self-sacrifice, forgiveness. Let our hearts fill with sorrow but not vengeance and hatred. If we are civilized, if we are reasonable men and women, isn't that reason enough to love one another?

motherofhasan

09/13/2001 03:02:41 PM

Let me get this straight, RobinArtisson. You fill the sky with blood, you go home, you wash your hands. You can still call yourself civilized because that is not war—that is merely the annihilation of your enemies. You must be one of those politically correct people, for whom an idea doesn’t have to be sound—it just has to sound good to you.

robinartisson

09/13/2001 02:23:12 AM

We Europeans do NOT have our roots in Abrahamic tradition. Abraham is NOT our ancestor. Our people were Indo-Europeans, NOT the semites! I've read what the "abrahamics" called "justice": Murdering women who are found to be non-virgins on their wedding night, cutting the hands off of thieves, and maiming people is NOT justice, by ANY decent standard. The Torah/Old Testament tell parents to kill their children for disobeying them. It instructs people to murder others for having different religions, and for being homosexual. Don't tell me how righteous and "just" the abrahamic religions are. "Law" is an ANGLO-SAXON word. The concept of women's rights to property and hardship divorce, trial by jury, and democracy are GERMANIC concepts! NOT abrahamic or semitic! And don't kid yourself: Even if the Koran said "kill every american", you couldn't touch us. We are almighty in military matters. Your people overseas are about to see how mighty. You cannot harm us except in cowardly terrorist attacks.

threethreethree

09/13/2001 12:56:09 AM

I'll try and be as "civilized" about this as i can, but apparently robinartisson has a differnt difinition of civilized. You talk of "purging" a religion. Three religions. Outlawing the beliefs of _Billions_. Because you think that it is not in accord with modern beliefs. The Abrahamic tradition is the basis of law and justice for most of the world. If these Laws are not in accord with modern values, it is because modern people have turned their backs on their roots, and much like rebellious teenagers, decided that they can make it on their own. Islam does NOT teach that terrorism is okay. If Islam tought that killing Americans was a good goal, America would be an ash heap. If Islam taught "Kill Americans", then there would be a lot of dead Americans. If Islam was as anti-west as the media would have you believe, then there wouldn't be the more than 7,000,000 Muslim-Americans. Like me.

robinartisson

09/12/2001 09:57:31 PM

I need a reality check? I don't agree with or approve of your bloody paradigm of violence and war, and I condemn it when I see it, and I need a reality check? People like you are why we have problems like warfare and terrorism. You are okay with it, you accept it, and you think it is just an acceptable reality for us all. And this all goes right back to what I have been saying: your middle-eastern based religion, bathed in blood and intolerance, teaches you that this is okay. Islam began in violence, and it thrives in violence. But let me promise you: your allah cannot save you all from yourselves. The dark clouds have just broken. The US is about to own quite a large amount of Arab real-estate, and even though I don't want to see people hurt, if you live by the sword, then others will make sure that you die by your sword. Violence-accepting and glorifying religions are to blame for this, and the horror that is to come is just poetic justice for them.

motherofhasan

09/12/2001 08:10:08 PM

RobinArtisson: Please step away from the computer. You need a reality check!

robinartisson

09/12/2001 01:39:59 PM

"Civilized people talk about war"??? THANK YOU for making my point AGAIN. No, 'civilized' people do not consider WAR to be a CIVILIZED pasttime. My statement that "blood would rain from the sky" was a poetic REBUKE of actions that are going to cause MASS bloodshed. Twice you have proven how violent-minded you are, (and by extension, people like you) by first assuming that I desired blood raining from the sky, and then by calling war a conversation topic of 'civilized people'. Your religion says in the Koran that killing unbelievers is fine by God. The bible is no better. Religions from the Middle east should be purged and illegal in a "civilized" world, for the Anti-social threat that they are. They teach people hate and judgmentalism, and they have turned our common history into a crimson bloodstain: and New York is just one more example.

motherofhasan

09/12/2001 12:02:40 AM

Civilized people talk about war; bloodthirsty maniacs talk about filling the sky with blood. A civilized person would be outraged if he thought his government would fill the sky with blood over actions that, most likely, were carried out by a small group. Who’s bloodthirsty? Who’s ignorant? Who’s savage? Who’s barbaric?

motherofhasan

09/11/2001 10:49:33 PM

(B)ut I say, "sorry guys: we can't sit around and try to tell apart the "safe" muslims from the maniacal, bloodthirsty fanatics." So, what did you have in mind when you said this? It certainly sounded to me as though you planned, or desired, to rid the world of Muslims of every kind.

robinartisson

09/11/2001 09:00:27 PM

I find it grimly humorous how "motherofhassan" helps to prove my point about how bloodthirsty muslims and religious groups from the middle east are. I made the statement that "blood would rain from the sky because of what had happened in New York today", but never once did I state that I was in favor of this, or that I desired to see blood rain from the sky. I was simply stating the consequences that my government would wring out of whomever was caught. But "motherofhassan" automatically assumed that I was in favor of "blood raining from the sky". Expecting everyone else on earth to be as bloodthirsty as the barbaric muslims, she assumed that I was in favor of such a thing. Sorry, lady, Some of us are civilized, and waiting very impatiently for the rest of you to catch up.

motherofhasan

09/11/2001 06:14:19 PM

It is astonishing how RobinArtisson, whose occupation is “academic/educator”, accuses Muslims of being “maniacal, bloodthirsty fanatics” and at the same time declares, “Blood will rain from the sky over what has happened in New York today.” I have every expectation that our government will respond appropriately to the events of the day; I have every confidence they will do it without the ignorance, prejudice, and bigotry expressed by RobinArtisson.

robinartisson

09/11/2001 02:50:52 PM

Now that the worst act of terrorism in history has been committed, I hope the world can see how large of a threat Muslims really are. Of course, muslims sit around and preach about how "true" muslims would never hurt anyone, and how "allah" does not ask people to commit terrorism, but I say, "sorry guys: we can't sit around and try to tell apart the "safe" muslims from the maniacal, bloodthirsty fanatics." Blood will rain from the sky over what has happened in New York today. All religions from the middle east are based on monotheism, and the idea that they are the "only right religion", and this ALWAYS leads to violence, hate, and now terrorism. They hate women, they maim people for minor crimes, and they are ignorant. These people wouldn't be so willing to die and kill, if Korans and Bibles weren't telling them that "god" thinks that it is okay. I blame all these savage, barbaric religions and cultures from the middle east, and renounce the blood that has run throughout history because of them.

motherofhasan

09/10/2001 09:50:29 PM

Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (2:190) How Israel behaves is not the issue. Does suicide bombing transgress limits? If it does, it is not an option for one who believes. True martyrdom must be earned--a mere willingness to die is not enough. God's plan for us on earth is that we purify our souls; it should be clear that we cannot volunteer ourselves for what must be the culmination of a lifetime of struggle. (Why should a man be honored because he was so filled with hatred that he died to take his enemy with him?) God, Most High, chooses the martyrs from among the righteous--those who go to war, with a willingness to die, to defend those who cannot defend themselves. If we eliminate suicide bombings as an option, two options remain: We can fight according to what God has allowed for us, or We can try peace and reconciliation.

nosaj

08/27/2001 11:32:20 AM

Dear Mr. Shimron, thanks for the balanced discussion of islam and terrorism. The word needs to get out to non-muslims, and some muslims as well, that islam does not sanction terrorism. True, the mass majority of muslims' hearts are with the Palestinian people but their political and militant leaders are not approaching this matter islamically. I know many will say I sound lofty, liberal or whatever, but if both sides of this conflict were to turn to the true guidance of their faiths we could resolve this conflict much faster. But that is not likely to happen. Instead nationalism will take precedence and we'll continue to read post after post of from jew and muslim discussing the same ole trivial pursuits... who was there first? whose land does it belong to? blah blah blah. This war has continued for 30 plus years and people still keep arguing about the same dumb questions.

NadjaOfNewark

08/24/2001 10:27:15 PM

Psionycx - Go check out Michael Lerner's stuff, and read some of the links from the USS Liberty page. The USS Liberty may have been targeted because she may have had data showing the Israelis actually started the 1967 war.

huckfinn

08/24/2001 03:27:20 PM

Psioncyx, You gloss over the fact that Israel "annexed" these territories after being attacked from all sides.

Psionycx

08/24/2001 02:40:15 PM

Aggression, in itself is never justified. However, let us not deceive ourselves here. Israel, despite it's small size, outgunned the surrounding Arab nations by a wide margin (and still does), and made some choice territorial acquisitions in the 1967 war, including East Jerusalem. Indeed, I think that the incident has crystallized Israel's entire military mindset. They are well aware that they can expand their borders more or less at will and that there's not a thing the Arabs can do about it. Which leads to the present state of affairs. Israel isn't really worried about their borders, they can defend them (or expand them) whenever they like. Their only problems are terrorism and international opinion (they receive HUGE amounts of foreign monetary and military aid).

huckfinn

08/24/2001 11:34:25 AM

Psioncyx, Are you saying the 1967 attempt by surrounding Arab nations to destroy Israel was justified?

Psionycx

08/24/2001 11:06:15 AM

HuckFinn, As I mentioned earlier, the Zionist movement had support from England dating all the way back to WWI. Before that, during the 19th Century and most of the first 2 decades of the 20th, there weren't that many Jews in Palestine. The floodgates on immigration opened after WWII and the land grab began. Israel never intended to abide by the UN borders. And they had support from the U.S. in Britain to annex more.

huckfinn

08/24/2001 10:35:10 AM

Brigid, There were plenty of Jews in Palestine (a British protectorate, not an independent nation) before 1948. If the Palestinians had accepted the UN-approved partition at the time, they would have more land today than just the West Bank and Gaza. I don't say this to justify Israel's current treatment of the Palestinians, but I think it naive to lay 100% of the blame on either side.

brigid

08/23/2001 08:38:24 PM

The state of Israel has only existed since 1948. When the Jews "returned" to Palestine after almost 2000 years of not living there, they were aided by Europeans who saw a way of getting them out of Europe and Americans who caved into a Jewish lobby group(And probably aided by racist christian Americans who secretly wished US Jews would leave and go to Israel too.) The effect of this on the Palestinians,has been quite like the European invasion of the Americas with its devastation of the Native American populations or the British occupation of Ireland. Many Jews should have known how the Palestinians would feel about this invasion because of their experiences in the Holocaust didn't want to admit the humanity of the Palestinians any more than the Nazis admitted the humanity of the Jews. There are Jews of conscience who want to promote peace but they are labeled by their government, "Self-hating" Jews. As long as the ultra orthodox conservatives continue to make Israel a theocracy it won't get any better.

mujahid

08/23/2001 06:46:34 PM

This is my theory on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict: if there are two sides fighting, and one side is using machine guns and tanks, while the other side consists of children with stones, my choice as to which is "right" would be the children's any day. Nonetheless, the conditions in which the Palestinians live are appalling, to say the least. If you have a strong stomach, take a look at this site, and make your own opinion as to what could possibly force people to strap a bomb to their bodies. http://www.aol40.com/pali_torture.htm

Psionycx

08/23/2001 01:48:27 PM

Actaully that's an overstatement. Technically, most Israelis (including the government) are pretty secular and more focused on the "ethnic" aspect of being Jewish. However, Israel does give state religion authority to Orthodox Judaism, and they, of course, are quite strict.

huckfinn

08/23/2001 01:14:56 PM

obfuscate: No, a Jewish person who converts to Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Islam, Christianity (Any kind), or anything else no longer really is Jewish, right? To my knowledge, only Messianic Jews are categorically shunned by the Israeli government (and the Jewish community at large).

Brainwashed

08/23/2001 11:19:44 AM

The Palestinians in so-called Palestinian territories have been subjected for decades to sub-human living conditions imposed on them by the Israeli government. They have never been offered a proper economic solution, in fact, any economical success was either stopped by the Israeli govt or the corrupt PA. Currently, Israel is desperately trying to break the Palestinian spirit by imprisoning them in their own homes and then firing on these homes with heavy artillery. They hunt them down “assassin style”. And to top it all off, Palestinians are meant to believe that the 700+ deaths and thousands of casualties are justifiable in the name of Israeli security. What about Palestinian security? I think the above is an extreme situation which has caused some Palestinians to perform extreme acts such as suicide bombings.. I am not condoning, but at the same time, I am not surprised. Extremism is a reaction to adverse human conditions. The Israeli government have only themselves to blame. - You reap what you sow.

Brainwashed

08/23/2001 11:18:43 AM

I think we have to look back in history to see what extreme situations can push people to do: After WWI, Germany was economically crippled by the West; what happened? The rise of Nazism/Fascism. The IRA in N. Ireland are a group that grew from an imposed Imperialistic ruling government that treated the catholics with contempt/disdain and whose answer to their complaints of ill-treatment was violence. In Vietnam, VC used to blow themselves up when caught by US soldiers, killing themselves and their captors. Cont in next posting

Psionycx

08/23/2001 10:42:53 AM

As I stated earlier however, repatriating the Palestinians to other countries permanently is exactly what Israel wants, and it is at the heart of most of their tactics. They are provoking conflict on purpose, because they want the Palestinians to fight, because then they can kick them out the area for "security reasons". Israel's ability to defend itself from military assault grows greater every year. Unfortunately, as they become more and more invulnerable to military attack, terrorism increasingly becomes the only way to get at them (this actually applies to the U.S. as well).

Psionycx

08/23/2001 10:38:53 AM

And then there's the Jerusalem problem. I disagree with Arafat's contention that East Jerusalem must be the capital of a new Palestine. The justification of it's sacredness is a smokescreen. After all, in Islam, Mecca is even more sacred than Jerusalem, but it is not the capital of Saudi Arabia! But then, I don't trust any one country with ownership of the holy city.

Psionycx

08/23/2001 10:36:43 AM

Well, that's only partly true. Several million Palestinians were taken in by Jordan. But Jordan isn't one of the oil-producing nations, and hence isn't as wealthy as, say, Saudi Arabia. I do agree that the Arab League ought to consider doing something constructive with the situation, but the question is open as to what. Additionally, the cultural issues of the region are a problem. Israel justifies their claim to the land because it was their's 2000 years ago! Likewise, the Palestinians that want to repatriate feel that they must get back the homes that were taken from them, rather than move to new ones (even though their old homes are mostly gone).

obfuscate

08/23/2001 10:33:18 AM

Dawnpiper, Clearly the corrupt and self-interested dictatorships of the rest of the Arab world have neglected their duties towards the Palestinians. However, if they simply absorbed all the refugees that Israel displaced, that would simply give Israel an even stronger pretext to deny its culpability for their plight and assert that they needn't ever be allowed back to their own homes. For them to just "go away" is EXACTLY what Israel would want the most. Unfortunately the refugees themselves loose out the most..... But you can go ask them, they don't WANT to be resettled anywhere else. They just want to go home. Ironic how Moses words "Let my People go" could easily be ammended to refer to the Palestinian situation: "Let my people go home".

dawnpiper

08/23/2001 09:12:06 AM

I would like to make a point about the horrible conditions in which the Palestinians are living, one which frequently gets missed - after the '67 war, when Israel occupied the Gaza/West Bank and the Palestinians were disposessed, not ONE of their "brother" Arab nations would take them in. These poor people are trapped between two implacable forces - the Israeli government that wants them to simply disappear, and most of the rest of the Arab governments, who apparently need the Palestinians kept in wretchedness as cannon fodder in their media war against Israel. The Jews have a saying, "We are all responsible for one another." Is there not an equivalent sentiment in Islam? If so, then surely Allah's judgement will be great on those who could have offered succor to the Palestinians, but chose not.

Psionycx

08/23/2001 09:08:37 AM

Peaceful protest has not availed anyone under Israeli imperialism. As I said before, non-militant Christian communities within Israel were simply "removed" for "security reasons" only to later find out that Israel had dropped Jewish settlements where their villages had been. The U.S. historically has ignored this, and used our veto on the UN security council to prevent anything being done about it. From the Palestinain perspective, non-violent protest means simply being driven out of Palestine completely at the point of Israeli guns.

Psionycx

08/23/2001 09:05:41 AM

allanbal, How would you feel if, one day, some people from another country showed up in your town and announced that you had to leave your homes because some people from someplace else were going to be "resettled" there. The Palestinians did not begin as a militant people. In honest truth, they were little more than a bunch of herders and farmers in a part of the world that few people truly cared about at the time. The decision to take their homes away was made by people a thousand miles away, and truthfully the decision was made even before the Nazis (England agreed to support the Zionist movement to gain Jewish support during World War I).

obfuscate

08/23/2001 06:45:02 AM

Huckfinn, huh? No, a Jewish person who converts to Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Islam, Christianity (Any kind), or anything else no longer really is Jewish, right? I guess there are 2 meanings of the word "Jewish". There is the ethnicity this implies and then there is the religion of Judaism. Of course someone cannot change their ethnicity... so what I meant is that they are no longer considered followers of Judaism.

allanbal

08/22/2001 10:50:59 PM

(continued) I say that the burden is on the Palestinians to engage in non-violent protest, and to guarantee Israel's right to exist. This should be accompanied by organized political pressure at the UN and within the US for Israel to reform its treatment of the Palestinians and to grant them autonomy and even perhaps independence. Without the first step, however, Israel can always justify its policies by claiming its need for self-preservation. The Jewish and Evangelical communities in the US could subsequently end their knee-jerk support for everything Israel does, and exert their moral authority to seek a just society in Israel, just as the Arab nations should guarantee peace with Israel. The end of apartheid in South Africa and the coming of democracy and racial reconciliation, to me offer a model for what can happen in the Middle East.

allanbal

08/22/2001 10:48:55 PM

I believe that there is such a thing as a just war, however I cannot accept that suicide bombings aimed at civilians can ever be defined as such. Unfortunately, the situation is not as clear-cut as in Afghanistan or some other attempts at comparison given here. The occupied territories were taken as a result of Israel being attacked by surrounding Arab nations. The nation of Israel was itself founded as a result of the prevalent anti-Semitism in Europe, which only found its most virulent expression in Nazism. Clearly the policy of resettling non-Jews is racist, and Palestinian anger is justified. Yet the Arab hatred of the Jews itself is based more on ethnic and religious resentments than simply as a result of Israeli policies.

huckfinn

08/22/2001 06:15:42 PM

obfuscate: Or more correctly reffered to as Jews converted to Evangelical Protestantism. I see. One can remain Jewish and believe in anything (Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, etc.) except the historical fufillment of Jewish Messianic prophecy. Is such government sanctioned religious discrimination justified only against evil Evangelicals, or also against mainline Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Orthodox Christians?

Psionycx

08/22/2001 04:59:56 PM

However, I am so sick of the petty bickering over Jerusalem that I endorse the Pope's suggestion - that the city be turned into an international zone under no one nation's control.

Psionycx

08/22/2001 04:58:56 PM

This is not to say I approve of terrorism. But I don't see what other weapons the Palestinians have. People who have tried peaceful protest have simply been evicted from the communities when Israel decided it wanted them gone (which is why whole Christian villages no longer exist their populations having been driven out to make room for settlements). The Palestinians have no counter to the First World quality military capabilities of Israel. And the U.S. habitually blocks any diplomatic attempts they make in the U.N. What else have they got besides terrorism? If you back someone into a corner they will fight with whatever means are necessary.

Psionycx

08/22/2001 04:54:12 PM

Actually, a fair number of Orthodox have probably slipped in under the "my grandmother was Jewish" excuse. The whole situation disgusts quite a few of my Jewish friends, especially because the Israeli crime rate has skyrocketed thanks to the sudden abundance of ex-communist, unemployable pseudo-Jews. But they're there to fill up the land so that Israel can justify denying return to refugees and the expansion of settlements.

obfuscate

08/22/2001 04:35:40 PM

". . . unless those Jews happen to believe Jesus of Nazareth is their Messiah." Or more correctly reffered to as Jews converted to Evangelical Protestantism.

huckfinn

08/22/2001 03:42:56 PM

Psionycx: In an effort towards demographic justification, Israel has established an open immigration policy that pretty much accepts anyone that claims to be a Jew or descendent of Jews. . . . unless those Jews happen to believe Jesus of Nazareth is their Messiah. obfuscate, Are you familiar with the "just war" criteria developed by St. Augustine? They're pretty strict, and I don't think they've ever been followed. They certainly don't characterize the tactics of the Israeli government or the Palestinian militants. Also, Lincoln himself insisted that the Civil War was not fought to end slavery. He wanted to confine it to the South and work toward its gradual demise; the South precluded this by seceding. Finally, there is no way of knowing whether sustained, nonviolent resistance would have stopped slavery or Hitler because it was never tried.

Psionycx

08/22/2001 03:09:58 PM

Also, the Palestinians are fearful that Israel means to squeeze them out. That's why the settlement issue is so serious. In an effort towards demographic justification, Israel has established an open immigration policy that pretty much accepts anyone that claims to be a Jew or descendent of Jews. Most recently, this has seen a massive influx of people from impoverished Russia whose claims to being Jewish are dubious at best. But all these incoming "Jews" look like a clear statement that Israel is saying that they a) don't have room for returning Palestinians and b) are going to need more room, and soon.

obfuscate

08/22/2001 12:26:48 PM

allanbal, you seem to espouse complete non-violence. However, this position is untenable because it ignores the possibility of a "just war". Sometimes, it is neccessary as a last resort to use violence. I believe Palestine is such a case (so was Afghanistan fighting off the Russians). Imagine if there had been no Civil War, there would still be slavery. Imagine if the US didn't forcefully stop Hitler. These two wars were both "Just Wars". The path of non-violence in this case would have been inneffective. PS, the fight to abolish slavery and the Partition of India after the British left were both VERY bloody affairs.

Psionycx

08/22/2001 10:20:15 AM

Look, here's reality. Hardliners in the Israeli government and military (Ariel Sharon among them), want the Palestinians gone. Because simply driving the rest of them out would be too much, even for Israel's supporters, they continue to antagonize the Palestinian population in order to cause the kind of anger that leads to this sort of terrorism. Then Israel can "retaliate" with ever-increasing brutality while justifying it as "defense". Then they can push the Palestinians out entirely and claim they had no choice.

here4u

08/21/2001 07:58:09 PM

Sorry, I had one more thing to say. Ever notice that we hardly hear about all the civilians dying in Kashmir or in African nations. Many more people have been killed/murdered in these regions than in the Middle East but not as much attention is given to them.

here4u

08/21/2001 07:53:53 PM

The media is a very powerful tool and can be used to favor one side as it is being used today. Research and get to know the whole truth before you all decide that you know what's happening in the Middle East or anywhere for that matter.

here4u

08/21/2001 07:53:23 PM

Hello allanbal, I aggree with you but how do we know that the Palestinians aren't doing what Mandela, etc. did? Whenever some Palestinian does somethng crazy (i.e. suicide bombing) the media goes crazy and rushes to show all Palestinians as inhuman, while when the Isreali army continuously murders innocent Palestinian civilians the media sympathizes with Isreal and says that these Palestinian civilians died in "clashes". "Clashes" are between armies not between civilians and an army. If you care to notice, the media is very biased towards the Palestinians. It brushes off 500+ Palestinian civilian deaths as nothing and when a crazy suicide bomber explodes himself and kills others, all Palestinians are blamed and brandished as terrorists. Palestinians march for justice but what happens at these marches? Isreali soldiers shoot them dead. And again, the media says they were killed in clashes. If this happened in today in the US, what would it be labeled as?

allanbal

08/21/2001 06:37:32 PM

(conclusion)I believe it will take courageous Israelis and Palestinians who are willing to risk martyrdom by standing on the spiritual principles of forgiveness, love, and reconciliation to bring peace to the Middle East. I don't know what the political compromises will look like. But only through Truth, which lies at the essence of Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Christianity, will peace come to the Middle East.

allanbal

08/21/2001 06:36:20 PM

(contiued - sorry for the double post below) Nelson Mandela underwent a spiritual transformation during his 27 years in prison, and when elected president of South Africa, implemented a policy of reconciliation between whites and blacks that averted what many thought would be a gruesome bloodshed. These visionaries paid the price of giving their lives, but not through revenge and hatred. Gandhi was killed by an extremist who did not want to see peace between Hindus and Moslems, King by those fearful of racial reconciliation. When Malcolm X travelled to Saudi Arabia and saw Muslims of every race worshipping God together, he underwent a spiritual transformation (read his "Autobiography"), returning to America only to be killed by his former colleagues who feared his new message of racial harmony.

allanbal

08/21/2001 06:33:45 PM

The path to peace will never be paved by "getting even." Nat Turner did not achieve freedom for slaves, and Malcolm X did not achieve civil rights or equality for African Americans through the path of violence. The oratory and sacrifice of former slaves such as Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman moved the consciences of many white Americans to work for the abolition of slavery, a movement which led to Abraham Lincoln's presidency. Gandhi preached and lived satyagraha (non-violence), and worked for reconciliation between Moslems and Hindus. The spiritual power of his life and leadership brought India independence without massive bloodshed. Martin Luther King, Jr. used Gandhi's example and the teachings of Jesus as the basis for the civil rights movement, and its non-violence conveyed a moral authority that brought down the Jim Crow laws and changed American society for good.

latinomuslim

08/21/2001 04:33:27 PM

The Isreli government is wrong for the occupation & for the use of Milatry against civilians.But Palestinians are equally wrong for suicide bombings.Brain washing children to think Paradise is theirs for becoming a Martyr is wrong.Suicide is strictly prohibited in Islam. Palestinians will have to answer to Allah as to why they have used Islam as a tool to get these naive children to agree to bombings. Isrealis & soldiers will have to do the same at their use of judgement.Both are equally wrong it pains me to see Islam dragged in the mud.Most people in the U.S. think ALL Muslims are terrorist.The Koran refers to Islam as a believer of 1 GOD.Not so much a follower of the "Muslim Faith" as we know it today.To kill another because he is not Muslim is not condoned, weather by government or vigilante.Period.Palestinians & Isrealies through this conflict have hindered their respective faiths rather than helped them along.Whoa to us all. We are all failing.

rdfigueroa

08/21/2001 09:53:24 AM

Peace to All! With a corrupt interpretation of only one Quranic verse 5 Chap 9, they obliterated the divine messageof Islam a religion of free choice, mercy, forgiveness, sound advice & good reasoning, Woe to the enemies of God... their day will surely come! the Palestenians, (If they are Muslims)... did they not understand Quran 2:218?... is the land on earth not large enough to immigrate? obfuscate: were did you find " there shall be no compulsion in Islam?"... (2:256) There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way.... Have we fallen without knowing?. "Say: Shall I tell you who the worst losers are?. They are the ones whose works in this life are totally astray, but they think that they are doing good." (18:103-104)

obfuscate

08/21/2001 08:16:58 AM

The point is that the Israeli government should (not that it will currently do so willingly) repatriate the people that it forcibly expelled in 1948 from their homes (they are now living mostly in Squalid Refugee camps in Lebanon, Syria, West Bank, Gaza and I think Jordan). Including their descendants, this refugee population has swelled to 4 million odd people -- the world's largest refugee population. Also, Israel should lift the occupation on Gaza and the West Bank (remaining Palestinian Areas that are now under military occupation) since this is land captured in 1967 which all international laws say must be liberated. Please note: I am not condoning the suicide bombings and Terrorism practiced by Palestinians either. However an occupying military force or settler families intent on usurping more land are legitimate targets -- not terrorism.

obfuscate

08/21/2001 08:16:44 AM

Skiboo, you said "As for the Palestinians, there are plenty of Palestinian states - Egypt, Syria, Lebanon" This is not right. In WWII when the Germans invaded France, imagine if they had forcibly expelled the French population. What if we said that this was OK since there were plenty other French states such as Belgium, Austria, Holland, Italy? You are making a very similar argument. cont'd

Skiboo

08/21/2001 02:49:17 AM

But, that does not excuse them taking over Palestinian land, and niether does it excuse the suicide bombers.

Skiboo

08/21/2001 02:47:34 AM

Thank you for that - I guess I need to touch up on my history just a bit;-) Can anyone now tell me how the propose to seperate the wailing wall and the dome of the rock to achieve peace in that area? Isn't that the basis of the war - the Isreali's want to rebuild their temple, but the land is 'owned' by the Palestinians - the dome of the rock? I still don't see how the problem can be resolved. But, I must admit, that my sympathies do lie with the Jews. And not for religious reasons, but for the mere fact that they have fought so long (centuries) for the 'land of milk and honey', and their religion needs a home. As for the Palestinians, there are plenty of Palestinian states - Egypt, Syria, Lebanon - or do I need to sort my history out again (never my strong subject at school;-)?

here4u

08/20/2001 10:57:33 PM

Why don't we ever hear why the Palestinians are complaining?

here4u

08/20/2001 10:56:31 PM

cont. Every honest Jew/Isreali will aggree with me that if Isreal wasn't unjust to the Palestinians then there would have been peace in that region as there was during the Ottamen Empire and earlier in history. Hope you all think about the situation in the Middle East and learn about it from unbiased journalists. Suicide bombers are dead wrong but Isreali soldiers are even worst, they are terrorists in disguise. And who puts this disguise on them? The media.

here4u

08/20/2001 10:56:08 PM

Hello! It is funny how we condemn suicide bombers (for good reasons), however, we don't condemn the Isreali army which has killed hundreds of civilians including women, children, and adolescents. The suicide bombers are mentally disturbed because of the oppression they live through and are very few in #...but, what excuse does the Isreali army have for MURDERING Palestinian civilians? And for those of you who say and believe that Palestinian parents send their kids infront of Isreali soldiers to be MURDERED, you are amongst the murderers for even saying or believing this! The Isreali govt. has been and still goes around Palestinians lands and demolishes homes saying that they were build without a permit, although these Palestinian homes were built before Isreal came about. After demolishing these decade old Palestinian homes, the Isreali govt. brings in trailers and starts construction of Jewish settlements. This is only the small portion of the oppression the Palestinians go through everyday!

huckfinn

08/20/2001 04:52:22 PM

I haven't defended the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, but I do think that the terrorist tactics of the Islamic extremists are not only wrong but also counterproductive. They simply give the Israeli government a pretext to continue its oppressive policies. Furthermore, while I believe Israel should withdraw from the occupied territories, it is highly misleading to claim that Israel "invaded" these lands in 1967. Israel was then simultaneously attacked by several hostile nations, many of which still support terrorist groups devoted to Israel's total destruction.

Psionycx

08/20/2001 03:25:56 PM

HuckFinn, Just as a fun trivia fact. Many, possibly most, of the few Christians that still live in the Holy Land are Palestinians. Israel has annexed many Christian villages to build settlements of their own.

obfuscate

08/20/2001 03:23:15 PM

Repression breeds militancy. Just look back at the Militant black groups that formed in the US when blacks were denied their civil rights (namely The Black Panthers). Malcolm X declared that blacks would achieve justice by any means neccessary. This is the same mindset of the Palestinians.

huckfinn

08/20/2001 03:22:52 PM

obfuscate, The Messianic Covenant does not "abrogate" the Mosaic Covenant, but it does supercede it, as the passages I cited cleary explain. The basic moral tenets are unchanged, but the external (ceremonial and civil) aspects of the Mosaic Law are no longer in effect. Hebrews is included in the Canon because it is theologically consistent with the rest of the New Testament. (This is not the place to debate the NT Canon; we've already strayed from the topic at hand.)

obfuscate

08/20/2001 03:21:20 PM

PurpleKu69 You say "Although they are a very small minority, the Moslems who cry "Death to America" show themselves to be every bit as bigoted, intolerant and evil as they accuse America as being." Why do you say this? The Israeli government has established a brutal occupation of Palestinian land which routinely earns adjectives such as "racist" and "apartheid" by independant organizations such as Amnesty International and Red Cross. The US government is the chief foreign financial backer of the Israeli Government and the Army (Called the IDF). The US donates $5 million DAILY in military aid to Israel such as F-16 fighters which are used against Palestinians. Additionally, the US has recently vetoed moves to place international observer forces in Palestine at the behest of Israel. I certainly think that the people who are being repressed have a valid complaint against their repressors and their international backers.

Psionycx

08/20/2001 03:07:45 PM

It's funny because I was thinking back to an old 80's TV mini-series called "V", about Earth being invaded by aliens. The human heroes used guerilla tactics and bombs to fight the technologically superior aliens. The show presents this as heroic to it's American audience. Yet here we have the Palenstinians, who have no counter to the powerful military of Israel, falling back on terrorism as their weapon and we see it as evil. Would we still see it that way if we were in their position?

Psionycx

08/20/2001 03:05:23 PM

It pays to remember here that, as loathsome as we find such terrorism to be, the Palestinians do not have tanks, attack helicopters and jet fighters to wage a conventional conflict with Israel. Whenever Israel employs their First World military technology against the Palestinians, there is little defense. The Palestinians have been left with terrorism as their only weapon against the military might of Israel.

obfuscate

08/20/2001 02:47:54 PM

Huckfinn.... I'm not sure how to interpret your response.... you said that Christ came NOT to abolish the law & the prophets... Please be explicitly clear about this, Are you saying that the commandments/laws no longer need to be followed, or are you saying that they DO need to be followed? BTW, you referred me to Hebrews. But as I understand it, the Authorship of this book of the NT is unknown. How can it then be trusted? In fact, on what/whose authority is it included in the Biblical canon anyway?

huckfinn

08/20/2001 02:27:11 PM

obfuscate, Christ said he did not come to abolish the law and the prophets, but to fulfill them, which he did. He then instituted a New Covenant that is not wedded to any nation or political system. See Jn. 4:21-24; Gal. 4:21-31; Heb. 8-9; 12:22-24.

amatullah

08/20/2001 01:52:05 PM

Just for the record. If a person leaves Islam and remains within the Islamic state, the most reliable position is that they are not to be kiiled. If, however, they leave Islam and go to live amongst the enemies of the Muslims, it is permissible to kill them. It is more a question that this person is in a position to be a spy than the fact that they left the religion. In a truly Islamic society (which does not exist anywhere today), every Muslim has access to "state secrets". It's more a matter of treason than anything else.

obfuscate

08/20/2001 12:49:34 PM

HuckFinn, incidentally, the Old Testament recommends the punishment of Death for disobedient children. Is this correct? This would imply that Christianity recommends the death penalty for disobedient children. Is this not so? If you claim that the Arrival of Christ on Earth abrogates the Mosaic laws, then you contradict Jesus's own (emphatic) words in Mathew 5:18: "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever practises and teaches these command will be called great in the kingdom of heaven"

obfuscate

08/20/2001 12:40:33 PM

Huckfinn.... but it is permissible (even mandatory) to threaten with death anyone who considers converting from Islam? No. Nowhere in Islam does it condone or recommend "death threats" or vigilante justice as you have implied. I'm not sure where you got this bizzare idea from. ALL Executions must be carried out by the state after due legal proceedings. I am not 100% sure that it is stated in the Quran (it may be in a Hadith) but I believe it is true that apostasy/treason is punishable by death. This is similar to the punishment for Treason which is metted out by the United States Government.

huckfinn

08/20/2001 12:34:59 PM

obfuscate, So it is wrong to forcibly convert someone to Islam, but it is permissible (even mandatory) to threaten with death anyone who considers converting from Islam?

obfuscate

08/20/2001 12:09:30 PM

HuckFinn, you said "Doesn't the Koran teach that anyone who renounces Islam must be killed?" Yes. Just as the United States' prescribed punishment for treason is the death penalty. I believe the phrase "No compulsion in Islam" refers to forced conversions... Not dealing with Apostates/Treason.

obfuscate

08/20/2001 12:07:14 PM

The suicide bombings of Civilians are clearly un-Islamic. They are loathsome and contemptible acts that must be loudly condemned. The brutal & racist Israeli occupation which has caused many more civilian deaths should be condemned much louder. As vile as the suicide bombings are, they must be seen in the context of the occupation. These bombings are analagous to Nat Turner's bloody slave revolt in the American South before the civil war. The killing of many innocent white people is unconscionable..... However, it is clear that the dehumanizing institution of Racially-motivated Slavery was the root cause of the problem and the revolts were a nasty side effect.

huckfinn

08/20/2001 12:00:58 PM

amatullah, Doesn't the Koran teach that anyone who renounces Islam must be killed?

terryboy

08/20/2001 11:40:49 AM

I'm staying out of this essentially unwinable argument, but somebody ought to point out to Skiboo that the territory in question (Gaza, Golan, and the West Bank) were Palestinian lands by U. N. mandate (except for Golan, which was part of Syria) until they were invaded and held as "spoils of war" by the Israelis after the Six-Day War in 1967. These lands are, therefore, properly called "Occupied Territories". Doesn't have anything to do with the insanity of teenage suicide bombers...just in interest of historical accuracy.

obfuscate

08/20/2001 11:34:36 AM

Skiboo, you said "And just when is Israel occupying Palestine? As far as I know, and anyone correct me if I'm wrong, the state of Israel belongs to the Israeli's, and there is no Palestine". Go read a History book. Also refer to UN resolution 242 here which emphasizes the "inadmissibility of [Israel's] acquisition of territory by war" and stipulates "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied"

edclinch

08/20/2001 11:31:12 AM

Do Christians believe in fighting for and defending their basic human rights? I hope so. How do the Palestinian Christians react to the problems of their people? emc

Skiboo

08/20/2001 07:26:47 AM

But, I must just say, that no suicide bomber is worth their weight in gold. I mean, that you can NEVER justify killing innocent civilians, no matter what religion, colour, creed - I'm from South Africa, ask me I know. And I don't ever think this conflict will be resolved, because to resolve it will mean that either Isreal or Palestine will have to sacrifice their religion and what they believe in for peace - and neither of them are prepared to do that. They best learn to live together in spite of. Its a religious war - not ethnic cleansing. I have not yet heard of Isreal's suicide bombers killing innocent civilians -

Skiboo

08/20/2001 07:20:22 AM

And just when is Israel occupying Palestine? As far as I know, and anyone correct me if I'm wrong, the state of Israel belongs to the Israeli's, and there is no Palestine - the reason for the war: They are fighting to have their own state, and thereby have Palestine recognised. BUT, Israel is (technically) not occupying Palestine. Palestine wants half of Israel - the half that it feels it has a religious right to. But, Israel also has religious rights. I don't think this conflict will ever be resolved, unless the two parties are willing to give up something of their religions, which neither party is willing to do. Best they learn to live together in spite of.

cturner14

08/19/2001 09:58:50 PM

The problem with sucide bombing and the like is that the leadership has lost touch with the faith. It seems to happen in all religions, faith begats power and power forgets faith. Arafat was said to send a letter to the families thanking them for their sacrifice. Israel looks to their scriptures and sees the requirement occupy the land and sacrific on the temple mount that the Palestinians control. After the failed peace negotiations, they're probably never going to find it now.

amatullah

08/19/2001 05:50:59 PM

Peace The suicide bombings in Palestine have nothing to do with "converting" people. Islam doesn't need to learn about not forcing people to convert--the Qur'an clearly spells out that there is no compulsion in religion. The conflict in Palestine IS NOT a conflict between Muslims and Jews. There are Palestinian Christians there as well and they get treated just as badly as Muslims do. While I don't condone suicide bombings at all, I'd like to ask people to put yourselves in the place of the Palestinians, imagine that someone comes, throws you and everyone who looks like you out of your homes, brutalizes you, forbids you to move about freely even to earn a living, and so on and so forth ad nauseum. How would you react? I do not say that all Jews must leave Palestine. However, I do say that they must be willing to live there with the Palestinian people on a level of decency and equality. If not, then, there is little hope that the violence will cease.

purpleku69

08/19/2001 04:04:21 PM

Islam needs to come to understand, like Catholocism did, that crusades, by what ever name, do not work. The Crusaders were not successful, in the end, because people do not like to be forcefully converted. Judaism and Islam need to come to some accomodation, before they suffer the fate that the Crusaders did. Oh, and another thing. Although they are a very small minority, the Moslems who cry "Death to America" show themselves to be every bit as bigoted, intolerant and evil as they accuse America as being.

Daveykins_FoxFire

08/18/2001 06:10:46 PM

It seems to me that Mohammad is getting as much black eyes and draggings through the proverbial mud as Jesus Christ has been getting at the hands of what he has to call his own followers. It's really a sad thing, in my eyes, there one party is just as guilty of the very thing they're accussing the other of being.

elias303

08/18/2001 03:21:55 AM

As a muslim I am completely against killing women and children and this kind of suicide. Real matyrdom is giveing 70 years of your life in service of God and your fellow men. I do understand however the kind of stress that causes acts like this. A better question you never hear is "Does Judaism condone ethnic cleanseing?".

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