Feminism among Latter-day Saints is dying, say former activists. But why?
01/21/2006 09:46:18 AM
Bill says "Back in the 70s, church leaders, like Ezra Taft Benson, were quick to condemn women who put off marriage to get an education, or who simply went to work. Today, education and dual-income families are too big to condemn. By giving up that battle, the LDS church has let go of a recruitment tool for feminist rage." Women are always encouraged to get an education. Getting an education is not the problem, and putting off marriage was not the problem either. Men would put off marriage. Women would put off having children. Today, I see many LDS women staying home with their children, and if they need money, they are trying to find ways of making money thru at-home businesses. But feminism is also a lot less trendy today, where working has turned out to be a mixed blessing. What today's generation doesn't take for granted, it simply sees as a mixed bag. When you HAVE to go to work, GETTING to do so is no reason to celebrate.
07/28/2005 02:09:38 AM
Why would a mother want to be "protected" from her children. Even if my kids were disgracing my name in every way, I would not want to be "protected" from them. I would want them to know I was there for them whenever they needed me. It's too bad that we can't celebrate and have an open relationship with our mother.
07/07/2005 04:58:40 PM
The decline in LDS feminism is mostly a change - both in the LDS church and feminism itself, which is in general decline. Back in the 70s, church leaders, like Ezra Taft Benson, were quick to condemn women who put off marriage to get an education, or who simply went to work. Today, education and dual-income families are too big to condemn. By giving up that battle, the LDS church has let go of a recruitment tool for feminist rage. But feminism is also a lot less trendy today, where working has turned out to be a mixed blessing. What today's generation doesn't take for granted, it simply sees as a mixed bag. When you HAVE to go to work, GETTING to do so is no reason to celebrate.
05/25/2005 01:05:18 PM
Gaia, as far as I know, the number of women who question women getting the priesthood, or want it, is very very small. We understand that the priesthood is GOD'S to give, and that, as far as we are concerned, at this point in time, He says that only men are to be given the authority to run His church. Women have enough responsibility with running the home. That is not to say that men have no responsibility with helping to run the home, but the home IS the woman's domain.
05/25/2005 01:04:08 PM
Not to mention the fact that women have that most special talent that man will NEVER have, and that is the ability to bear children. Who needs the priesthood? I would rather be able to have my babies than any priesthood! My boys are now holders of the priesthood, and I am proud to be the mother of two priesthood holders. No, I don't need to have the priesthood. And those women who seem to think they are missing out on something becausethey don't have it, don't really know that GOD is running this church, not them, not the men. If they don't like that, then they can leave.
04/22/2005 10:25:58 PM
The priest(ess)hood of women is as inaccessible to men and as unassailable as the priesthood of men is to women. Whether all women cherish equally their womanhood is not even a matter of debate, nor the fact some abuse it. On the other hand, history illustrates the trajectory of successful society, and ONLY successful society. All the rest did not survive, regardless of the fawning adulation of misogynists who point to their vision of how some extinct society "must have been". They are dead - deal with it. Thus, 'Roles' as they are currently debated, are assigned in an absolute manner, not arbitrarily. Every attempt to promote a feminine 'priesthood' has died. That should be a more swaying argument than mere 'opinion'.
03/15/2005 06:07:14 PM
It might be the same reason why the Heavenly Mother has not been revealed to us. I believe that our Heavenly Father is trying to protect her because you can see how widely his name is profaned, he doesn't want her to have to go through with that. Perhaps women don't hold the Priesthood outside the temple so that it doesn't get abused. There are men who abuse their Priesthood, sadly enough. I don't know, I haven't been through the temple, but I hope I make some sense.
03/13/2005 10:55:29 PM
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03/13/2005 08:33:23 PM
Many LDS women are NOT content with the status quo; they are beginning to ask questions, and to be dissatisfied with the usual non-answers...they are beginning to go elsewhere, and find interesting food for thoughtful prayer: - "Women and Authority: Re-Emerging Mormon Feminism" edited by Maxine Hanks; - "Strangers in Paradox" by Margaret and Paul Toscano; - "Heavenly Mother and Other Theological Essays" edited by Janice Allred; - "Sarah the Priestess" by Savina Teubal; - "In Memory of Her: A Feminist Reconstruction of Christian Origins" by Elizabeth Schussler Fiorenza - "The Goddess in the Gospels" by Margaret Starbird ONLINE: www.mormongoddess.com www.zianet.com/collier/matriarc.htm Blessings -- ~Gaia
03/13/2005 08:16:48 PM
LindaLDS wrote that "God has decided that women do not get the Priesthood" - i must respectfully but emphatically ask, WHERE exactly did *GOD* decide that -- You will not be able to find a single LDS scripture to that effect. INSTEAD, you will find statements that women are to become "QUEENS and PRIESTESSES" in the Kingdom of God. Why would the Lord use the term "Priestess" if women get no Priesthood? How could LDS women officiate in the Temple and wear the robes of the HOly Priesthood, if they have no Priesthood? And why are these questions -- let alone their answers -- NEVER raised ANYwhere in the church? Talk of the MALE Priesthood is ubiquitious throughout the church; but if LDS women even ask questions regarding *their* "Priest(ess)hood", they are first patronized, then shamed, and finally punished and marginalized -- and some of those who do the worst shaming, punishing and marginalizing are, sadly, other LDS women. ~Gaia
08/19/2004 01:06:54 PM
08/17/2004 02:02:02 AM
The article on "feminism" refers thus: "They [LDS women] officiate at some women-only temple ceremonies." Are they referring to the washings / anointings in the LDS Temple endowment? Thank you...
07/05/2004 11:06:10 AM
Dear migghtymountaingorilla I just want to say that I the sisters of my ward are very happy. We feel that it is our place to stay at home to raise our children, as the first years of a child are very important to his/hers growth, if, when they are older, we find that we have to get a job then it has to happen.
07/05/2004 10:51:08 AM
I believe that the sisters of the church are not called to the priesthood because it is not what God wants, he has given other work for the sisters of the church to do. As sisters we have callings in the church too, either in Relief Society or Primary, we have our visiting teaching. As sisters of the church we play a very ativie rule in the church just as our brothers do. So we do not need to have the priesthood ourselves as our brothers have been given that job to do from God not from man on earth. It is God will and his will will be followed.
05/02/2004 12:01:47 PM
truthvs. what you have to remember and realize is that this church is a church of PROGRESSIVE revelation. We constantly have a LIVING prophet to speak to us from God. He is there to tell us what GOD wants, not to keep what Joseph Smith taught or did. This is the church of JESUS CHRIST, not Joseph Smith. We firmly believe that, if women are not to hold the priesthood at this time, it is GOD'S will, not the will of Brigham Young or Heber C. Kimball or any other man. It has nothing to do with what Jospeh SMith wanted or what Brigham Young wanted or what Gordon B. HInckley wants, but what GOD wants.
04/29/2004 09:27:04 PM
Joseph Smith originally gave the priesthood to Women and to Blacks - do your research! This was taken away when Brigham Young & Heber C. Kimball (both 33rd degree Masons HCK autobio pg 11, etc.) came into the church at the direction of Albert Pyke - founder of the KuKluxKlan. Women are equal to men and should be holding the priesthood as a husband and wife unto God. After Christ in the NagHammadi, a Husband & Wife were the Bishop over the ward. What true (not political) revelation have we had for a very long time? D&C talks about the Cleansing of the Lord's House...it's time
04/25/2004 05:35:47 PM
The Church of Jesus Christ is always a work in progress. Progressive revelation. For some reason, God has decided, in the last 170some years, that women do not get the priesthood. And as a woman, and a Mormon, I don't have a problem with it. In fact, I don't think I would WANT the priesthood, and I think most LDS women I know think the same way. Especially the married ones. It's too much responsibility. We have enough raising the kids and keeping peace in the home. We don't need the preisthood. Men, however, need it, in order to be equal to women.
04/22/2004 06:17:43 PM
Women are equal to men as illustrated by Joseph Smith giving the priesthood to women and to ALL men such as Elijah Moses, a black man and his son and others also to Emma Smith, Priddy Meeks, etc. If you are ignorant of this or the alterations to the Original Book of Mormon, it's time for research! All truth seekers - without blinders - will remember the teachings of the Savior - to seek and ye shall find!
03/29/2004 07:46:44 AM
I am not a big fan of either Rush Limbaugh OR Dr. Laura, and since niether is LDS, I do not take much they say very seriously. Right wing or left wing, it's ALL rhetoric, and whether it makes sense or not, it's all politics. Thankfully, our church tries, as much as possible, to stay out of partisan politics. We listen to what GOD says, not some radio talking head.
03/26/2004 12:27:17 AM
There are a combination of reasons. 1. Feminism is a left wing product. 2. Left wing products are downtalked by Rush Limbaugh and Dr Laura. The latter is often quoted in church meetings. 3. Right wing rhetoric makes more reasoning sense that is independent of emotional "feelings".
03/14/2004 10:47:14 AM
No, I can't and being told to not think about something is a huge problem for me. I have always appreciated the LDS view that you will be content with your placement in the afterlife, so if the LDS view were correct, I would be content with my terrestrial placement. It's a step up from this world which is supposed to be telestial and I'm quite happy now. I don't see why a loving Heavenly Father would keep me from other family members there. How will he keep us apart? Why would he want to? I don't believe in one size fits all religion, so if you have found peace and contentment with the LDS faith, I'm glad you have found a spiritual home. I'm not out to challenge anyone's beliefs with my posts. When I saw the article on feminism I just thought I'd answer the question raised by the article by noting that I was a Mormon feminist and the way I dealt with that contradiction was by leaving.
03/14/2004 07:12:48 AM
He's right. It's not something you need to worry about. We do not practice plural marriage in this life. If it is practiced in the Celestial Kingdom, since the Celestial Kingdom is someplace where everyone will be happy, then plural marriage will not be something that we would need to fear. Can't you think of ANYTHING positive about being a plural wife? I sure can!!
03/13/2004 10:26:36 PM
You mentioned the larger issue of God and heaven, so I will address one facet of that. I have a great problem with polygamy as an eternal principle. The church likes to put this concept in the past, but it isn't. This is why men can remarry in the temple without cancellation of sealing, but women can't. Well, I don't want to be a polygamist wife. When I was in college I asked an institute teacher about my problem with polygamy as an eternal principle and his answer was not to think about it. This is one reason I'm inactive; there are others.
03/13/2004 09:18:07 AM
seeker, can I play devil's advocate here, so to speak? First of all, I have no problem with people going from one church to another, I am a convert to the LDS church, having been raised by strict Methodist parents. So, finding a new spiritual home if the old one isn't doing it for you is not something that I would criticize. However, it does bring up a question. The reason I changed is because of spiritual questions, about God and heaven, and people's perceptions of these things, based on scripture.
03/13/2004 09:17:48 AM
cont. However, you have left because of more temporal reasons, it seems. You didn't really say what it was about the LDS treatment of women that you found so objective (or maybe you did in an earlier post and I didnt see it). Personally, I find that the LDS church treats women with more respect than any other church or group. I was against the ERA, not because I do not believe that women should not be treated "equal", but because it was too vague and open to abuse. I would be interested in a discussion about this. I hope you are still around.
03/12/2004 03:02:37 PM
"These days, Mormons feminists are less likely to publicly cut their ties to the church than to quietly slip into inactivity or simply go underground, nursing their concerns in private." I think this is the answer to the question raised by this article; Mormon feminists have sought out new spiritual homes. I know it was my answer.
01/23/2004 05:11:38 PM
No one can "save" you & anyone no matter their age or position can lead you astray & need to repent as Joseph Smith warned us: "blind obedience is folly to intelligent men (and women) & is slavery in the extreme & when leaders require it of you they have it in their hearts to do wrong" He was speaking as a Prophet in the Millennial Star #14. The scriptures gives us further confirmation that we better receive for ourselves a personal divine witness by the Lord's words regarding three pure prophets; Noah, Job & Daniel (Eziekial 14:14-20) They could not even save their family members ONLY themselves. We are each accountable unto God. Sheep are not excluded.
01/21/2004 07:18:15 AM
I think the thing that many people can't or won't see is that this is a church of PROGRESSIVE revelation. The church is ALWAYS a work in progress, and never more so than at the very beginning. Joseph Smith never claimed to be perfect, and never claimed to know it all. He did what he thought the Lord was telling us. But not everyone was doing what the Lord wanted. Therefore, changes and alterations had to be made from time to time. If you believe that all of our prophets WERE and ARE prophets of God, then you will follow them when they lead as prophets of Christ, and do what they say Christ says to do, without argument. No one says you have to agree or that you have to like it. But when the Lord says something, you listen, it's that simple.
01/19/2004 10:19:19 PM
PS- When were women EVER given the priesthood? Men and women are not equal physically or emotionally- why would they be spiritually?
01/19/2004 10:16:14 PM
First- Where did this "original Book of Mormon" come from? Second- If men and women are so equal, then how are men corrupting everything with their evil natures? Third- Where are you getting all this info on Joseph Smith's "good" years and "bad" years? Fourth- What makes them "good" or "bad"? Fifth- What church do you belong to?
11/30/2003 10:18:46 AM
"don't see how the Church's opposition to the ERA could be described as "behind the scenes," since a 16+ page insert was published in the Ensign about "Why the Church is against the ERA." Hardly clandestine." Was this before or after her excommunication? The church WAS very quietly telling the sisters of the church to quietly lobby against the ERA with their congresspeople. But the LDS church does not like to get into the political arena. We don't even allow our chapels or other buildings to be used as polling places on election day. Sonia, on the other hand, FORCED the LDS church to register as an official lobbyist against the ERA. This did not sit well with the General Authorities. This was one of the reasons she was excommunicated.
11/18/2003 12:37:55 AM
Young Mormon women today "take equality between men and women on a personal and professional level as a given," she says. "It's not even a question." I liked this statement. It's more or less how I feel. To me, equality and mutual value is a given, a basic premise, and no longer needs to be proven again and again. We still need to improve our application of it, but I think most everyone assumes it now.
11/18/2003 12:35:21 AM
10,000 [women] showed up after getting marching orders from church headquarters. This statement in the article is a misrepresentation of what actually happened. The leaders of the Church encouraged women to inform themselves and attend the IWY. Some independent groups, like the John Birch Society, took it upon themselves to hold informative meetings that gave their version of events, and some falsely implied or stated outright that they were doing so with the blessing and request of the Church, which was not the case. Some of these meetings were such that they created the negative-reflex voting that ocurred. Sonia Johnson . . . exposed the LDS Church's behind-the-scenes opposition to the amendment. I don't see how the Church's opposition to the ERA could be described as "behind the scenes," since a 16+ page insert was published in the Ensign about "Why the Church is against the ERA." Hardly clandestine.
11/15/2003 12:18:53 PM
"I read a book called Mormonism: Shadow or Reality...believe me I was impressed" But you're not interested in the LDS refutation of that book? Why would you ASS/U/ME what Mormons believe based on a book written by PROFESSIONAL anti-Mormons? If you want to know what Moslems believe and why, the last people you are gonna ask are the Jews, right? Or the Christians? No, if you want to know WHAT Moslems believe and WHY, you go to the Moslems, right? So, if you want ot know what Mormons believe and WHY we believe it, you go to Mormons, not those who are paid to tear down our faith.
11/15/2003 01:22:15 AM
Regarding Changes...which lead this person to convert: An American Mormon's Journey to Islam: http://islamonline.net/english/journey/jour58.shtml#t What does not make sense is that God would make a mistake about his own religion and would need to correct it. I read a book called Mormonism: Shadow or Reality...believe me I was impressed with the "Negroes" section of the book to say the least. Something else of note is the Whiteness of the Mormon faith that again seems questionable...I remember reading about the Mormon doctrine that says dark skinned/complextion individuals are "The Children of Cain". Just to believe such a thing is rather sad, and I hope Mormons today to not thing this way. Of course this doctrine has been changed, which makes me wonder again...did God make a mistake?
11/14/2003 07:29:00 AM
Part of the problem that a lot of non-members have with the LDS church is how it'd doctrines change over time. But time changes, and it's impossible for anyone or any organization to live in the past. The LDS church is one of those. The prophets and apostles today realize that the realities of life are, that women MUST get an education or some sort of job training. Not all families are able to live on one income anymore, and single families are getting more and more commonplace. Many women HAVE to work outside the home. I've been a stay at home mom for most of my married life, but now, it looks as if I'm going to have to go out and get work because we just never have enough month left at the end of our money and the kids need shoes. I can't just go to PayLess anymore, cause one son wears size 15EE shoes and those are NOT cheap!
11/14/2003 07:28:42 AM
from above As for the Heavenly MOther issue, most MOrmons do believe that we HAVE a Mother in Heaven. But the ones who were ex'd over it were insisting that the church tell us that we must WORSHIP Her the same as we worship our Heavenly FAther. But this is not something that GOD has told us, thru His prophets, that we must do. In fact, He has not even told us we HAVE a Heavenly Mother, She is never mentioned in ANY of our scriptures. So, to believe is one thing, to worship is not right. I, for one, do not want to hold hte priesthood and most LDS women I've asked don't want it either. We have enough responsibilities with being mothers and wives. And while I might not be happy with the decision that women who have children under 18 can't work in the temple, I can see the wisdom in the decision and I accept it. We can attend the temple, but that's enough for me.
11/12/2003 11:32:15 AM
Personally, I've known several mormon girls and boys throughout my life. I do see some of the inequalities that exist in their lives. Most of the time, women are encouraged to stay at home with the kids, even if the families can't afford to do so. Also, I do see a general acceptance of religious rules without any questions as to why certain mandates are in place. However, what religious community doesn't have its own share of "problems"? Mostly, I've also seen very good things about the mormon experience--good families, strong ties, happy ppl, and a close connection with God. I say that women need to fight for their rights, but that in this day and age, the transition is most likely going to be very subtle--not as explosive as in the 1970s. Women now enjoy an equality with men, and that will definitely be reflected in all religious institutions. Hey, as long as the women are happy with LDS, I'm cool with it.