Between Allah & Jesus: Part 1
How would a Christian and a Muslim debate Jesus and Muhammad; the Bible and the Qu'ran; and theology and religion? Follow the compelling conversation as imagined by Peter Kreeft, in part one of this excerpt from his new novel "Between Allah and Jesus.” Then join a discussion between Beliefnet’s Muslim and Christian bloggers.
07/28/2011 02:08:00 PM
Their self-declaratively logical aspirations notwithstanding, most people fail to notice that the objective machinery of the logic by which they process their arguments for the sake of themselves is nothing without the arguments to be processed. It is simply a vacant mechanism, an emptiness without the filling of the premises, … major, minor, and subordinate, … to be fed into it and logically manipulated, … premises which, especially in the subjective world of faith, are either subjectively generated or, at least, subjectively modified. The so-called objective truth-in-reality of the product of this ratiocinative device is nebulous in foundation and specious in structure. Its substance is principally a matter of faith. Scilicet Ab Ambagibus.
05/29/2010 07:11:59 PM
@Dant "Logic is what we engineers and scientists employ" Here's some food for thought. ourbeacon.com/wp-content/.../islam-bible-quran-and-science.pdf Perhaps the book link above is something that could open your mind to other possibilities.
05/27/2010 06:25:06 PM
^^@Mr.. e.don"t know, what did u write??? someone must have reported it or something???
05/27/2010 06:19:30 PM
@etca, I agree about all the nonsense in agruing in which is better or politically correct in religion (way of life) plz choose yr own and be happy with it. I also see that it is not necessary to bash others and their comments, respect and discipline ppl. Children of ALLAH(GOD) might I add.. *** @ dant most corrupt organizations are backed up by money and power and try to put the words (christian, catholic) to have more funding and support...when one stands up for the truth we Muslims, you and anyone can stand ALONE!!!! (and I am sure that you have stood alone before!!) you never need power or a dead president globally to back you up when you're telling the truth. Money is nothing, truth is everything! Allah is the only one you need along with prayer. and if you didnt know , there is alot of Muslim funded organizations that help in my community, and they help in the community as well. Its ashamed you have never ran into any of them... ***thank u all for yr time, remember continue to WORSHIP GOD/ALLAH in your own way and all your needs will be answered...until next time God will continue to walk with you and I on our own spirtual journeys :D
05/27/2010 06:17:38 PM
What happened to my previous comment?
05/23/2010 07:55:52 AM
As I respect all the points of views of all who commented about this article only questions left me. Do we really need to argue who's religion is correct or which book came first or who's original? What are the real basis or facts that a person should believe about religion? I am not a religious person but simply obeying the rules and commandments I was thought since childhood though I know following them is not enough because as a believer we have the responsibility of spreading the word of God. With all the religion in the wolrd I came to know both Chirstianity as my religion and coming and working here in Middle East I was able to understand and know more of Islam. I've realized and discovered that there are things in Christianity that are wrongly to follow and the counter part in Islam is correct, same time when I've mingle with muslims they have believes that I considered wrong and Christianity is correct. Which means Christianity is not perfect nor Islam. I agrre that Christianity is love, charity and sacrifices but Islam is more cruel. One thing is clear, at the end of the life that God has lend us...we all as individuals are responsible of how we live our life on earth...and we are accountable to HIM only, regardless what religion we had followed...
05/20/2010 11:14:26 PM
afriqah wrote: 5/20/2010 7:10:45 PM "All one needs to do is to use simple logic. First and foremost, Allah, God is the Most High , the Supreme, All Knowing ,All Wise, All Seeing among other Glorious attributes. ....Allah (God) is above such lowliness. Jesus was a messenger, a prophet of Allah, just as Abraham, Moses, Lot, David, Soloman and the last of the prophets, Muhammed was., peace and blessing be upon them all. They all came with the same message. There is only ONE GOD! Allah! And we are His messengers." I say there is simple logic that equally empowers me to say you're full of crap. Mohamed was a pedophile, a dope addict, and a crazed murderer. "By their fruits ye shall know them". Mohamed was bad fruit. All of his followers are woman-hating male chauvinist pigs and beheading zealots who whip themselves with chains; self-flagellating nincompoops.. All hail the god Allah? Not in your dreams, turkey. And you are a baiter, copying my misspelling of Mohamed as "Muhammed". You are no more Muslim than Bullwinkle the Moose.
05/20/2010 07:10:45 PM
All one needs to do is to use simple logic. First and foremost, Allah, God is the Most High , the Supreme, All Knowing ,All Wise, All Seeing among other Glorious attributes. If Jesus is God, do you think that the world was so messed up that He, God, had to come down off HisThrone in the form of a man, urinating and defacating as we do, to straighten us humans out? And even that didn't work cause wer'e still (some of us) are not obeying His command. Allah (God) is above such lowliness. Jesus was a messenger, a prophet of Allah, just as Abraham, Moses, Lot, David, Soloman and the last of the prophets, Muhammed was., peace and blessing be upon them all. They all came with the same message. There is only ONE GOD! Allah! And we are His messengers. The Holy Qur'an was sent to cofirm what was sent before and to correct that which man corrupted in the previous revelations in the Old and New Testaments. Man changed the words of God as it was revealed. This is why there are so many different versions of the bible. You cannot find any two versions of the bible that are identical. If all the Torah (old testament) and the Injeel (new testament) were thrown in the ocean, you could not find a Jew nor Christian that could put it back together word for word as it was originally revealed because noone has memorized it. If the Holy Qur'an was thrown in the ocean, you can take a Chinese Muslim, an American Muslim, Arab Muslim, or any other race of Muslim and in 1(one) hour the Holy Qur'an would be back. Why? Because the Holy Qur'an was sent down to prophet Muhammad(saws) in stages and was committed to memory. He was illiterate and could niether read or write. He passed it on to others exactly as it was revealed to him and they (his companions) deciples also committed it to memory. This has gone on for 1500 yrs. The Holy Qur'an is in tact as it was origianlly revealed to this day as millions of Muslims have memorized the whole Qur'an. Why is it so hard to believe that Allah sent another messenger to mankind?People need to examine and read thier own texts and not just blindly follow thier parents, priests, pastors, ministers. Jesus(peace and blessings be on him) NEVER said "I am GOD, worship me" We are all accountable for our own souls. On the day of ressurrection there will be no excuses before the LORD OF THE WORLDS as to why we worshipped anything or anyone other than HIM and HIM ALONE!!
05/20/2010 07:06:44 PM
The debate over whether Allah and Jesus are loosely related can't be reduced to logic, as the article strives to do. Logic is what we engineers and scientists employ. Philosophers employ a meager and unsatisfactory form of logic. That is my first problem with the article. My second problem is the lack of anything pointing to the fruits of each belief system (Islam vs Christianity). Jesus said "by their fruits you shall know them". Look at the rotten fruits of Islam: Jihad, Sharia Law, mobs in the streets, beheadings. Look at the fruits of Christianity, whose God is NOT Allah: benevolence that the rest of the world only dreams about, organizations such as the Christian Childrens Fund, World Vision, Samaritans Purse, The Salvation Army. Show us their Islamic counterparts. There are none. Islam is a religion of bad fruit and ritualistic chanting; Christianity is a religion of love, sacrifice, and service. Jesus preached "a servant's heart"; Muhammed preached war and conquest
05/20/2010 05:43:57 PM
What if you're both wrong? Both say that God stopped talking after He gave you your books. But why? When someone asked why we needed another revelation, the Book of Mormon replied that God didn't shut up when he gave the Bible. He had other things to say to other people, and you had to read them all to get His true message. And if you want a revelation that respects both prophets, why not Bahau'llah? He's supposedly the next prophet. And don't forget Paul Muad'dib! Belief in any of these revelations obviously takes faith. Bur don't assume you know everything. If you did, you wouldn't need revelations!
05/19/2010 09:04:57 PM
naturboy_th0 I've read the same passage and I don't see how you came up with your conclusion. Would you like to explain?
05/19/2010 11:58:16 AM
The KJV Bible, Isaiah 7:14-16, suggest Yeshua (Jesus) was an atheist by this interpretation... 14 Therefore the Lord [I Am That I Am] himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [in man is god]. 15 Butter [another animal's food processed by man into a food for man, civilization is other animal's natural way of life processed by man into one for us] and honey [a natural food made excessively so many animals can use it, man's natural way of life] shall he eat [learn the laws of], that he may know to refuse the evil [civilization], and choose the good [nature]. 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land [death] that thou [man in general] abhorrest [dreads or is afraid of] shall be forsaken [by the child] of both [the 2] her [of death's] kings [god and devil]. ...so, how could he say he is the son of god?
05/19/2010 07:57:52 AM
I wonder how often in "real life" these arguments wind up with one person cracking the other over the head with a tire iron.
05/18/2010 09:24:01 AM
Sorry, but imagined conversations leave me cold. I find them way too contrived and a poor substitute for real interfaith dialogue. Couldn't you have found a Muslim co-author?