23 Minutes in Hell
One night I was catapulted to the very pit of hell--a terrible place of grotesque creatures, toxic fumes, and terrible darkness.
10/05/2012 12:01:40 PM
rainwolf007, In the bible it states that Hell isnt a place led by God. It isnt actually a literally place for punishment. It's eternal life without God's love at all. Satan is ruling everything once someone is in Hell.
09/06/2012 04:18:44 PM
This just gives me more reasons I don’t want to go to heaven, if hell is real.
02/16/2012 06:00:59 PM
lksafjlskf Actually the phrase "everlasting punishment" is used once in the NT in Matt 25:46 and this is the only time such a phrase is used. The Greek word of everlasting in this verse is aiōnios of which there is much theological debate as to its exact meaning, nevertheless the phrase is "everlasting punishment" and not "everlasting punishing" the punishment lasts forever, not the punishing, this is the second death. It is a major study I admit, you must study all 685 uses of the Heb. word nephesh to understand the meaning of soul, in which the evidence is overwhelming that man IS A SOUL and that he does not possess a soul, which is what God told us in the first place back in Genesis 2:7. The soul is not eternal... Ezk 18:20 "the soul that sinneth it shall die" There is much written on the subject available online by sound biblical expositors, you need to educate yourself in both views on the subject, but my basic question still stands. Why did God not warn about Adam about hell? The answer is obvious to anyone who thinks about it and my point that everything we need to know about the nature destiny and state of man is written in the book of the beginnings, we cannot go past what God has told us without making Him an inconsistent deceiver. If God told Adam that the punishment was one thing i.e. death and then later on decides to change the punishment to everlasting torment how can anything He said be trusted? Lksafjlskf, I have read the New Testament, I have read and studied quite a lot on this subject enough to see that the scriptures quite plainly teach that the wages of sin is death, death is not life, despite the fact Satan (Gen 3:4), Bill Weise and all other proponents of “eternal life in hell” would have us believe. Search the scriptures to see for yourself.
12/07/2011 12:57:33 AM
I thought the demons will be punished in hell too because they sinned against God. How come the demons were punishing the humans in hell?
11/15/2011 07:39:35 PM
Zaggle you need to READ the New Testament! It talks all about eternal punishment! I mean seriously. How can you say God never siad this without reading all of the bible! Zaggle and kandace read the bible precisely!
10/16/2011 04:30:22 PM
Look I agree with Zaggle you make an excellent point hello people wake up .
09/17/2011 01:35:11 PM
After reading all of this book watching the dvd and doing my own study, I know this is real! About 15 yrs ago I battled depression wish I wasn't born I walked around for days wondering what my purpose was. One night I was up late talking to my mom I was wide awake I couldn't get tired. When I went to bed that night I was just laying there all of a sudden I was somewhere else in a bright place a place I have never been to I didn't see anyone else just a sky clouds. The next thing I saw was myself kneeling down and praying I was at the thrown of God! As I was leaving this place at a great speed I heard the Lord say in a deep pleasant great authority voice ( I will tell you why you were born) then the next thing I remember I was in my bed and shaking a bit.. My point in bringing up my own experience is this I had this vision when I was 15yrs old I'm now 30 I remember this word for word just like it was last night. If my experience was a dream I would only remember bits and pieces. Same goes to for Bill wiese I believe 100% that this was from the Lord. I look at it this way If how I believe Is not correct and the bible I read is false then at the end of the day I will not lose anything, But If My God exist which he does then whoa to those who never knew him may Lord God Jehovah have mercy on your soul.
08/11/2011 03:55:38 AM
look i belive in heaven and hell but my opien is that this guy is a fake but more power to him IF its real heres why i think its fake 1.god wouldnt do that to someone 2.he said that there was alot of stuff in the bible that explaned what he saw he could of just copyed it and spent a year looking in a mirror trying to act out his speech just hole after hole look im a beliver and theres more then one poster on here that belives what i belive and if u think im wrong i want to hear from u please heres even my email please email me and well talk about if hes real or not chrisharmon59@GMAIL.COM THERE IS NO WAY ILL EVER CLOSE THIS DOWN IM ALWAYS ON MY EMAIL SO LETS TALK ABOUT THIS
08/04/2011 08:15:29 PM
One question for the Hell believers. Why did God not warn Adam of eternal torment and everlasting punishment for sin? He told him in no uncertain terms that the consequences was death. Literally "dying you shall die" (Gen 2:17). Nothing to do with eternal pinishment. In fact, maybe Adam would have refrained if he knew the "real" consequences of his action, but he was under the impression that he would die, not suffer eternal torment. And death is not life, but eternal torment means that the tormentee has life not death. Which is the exact opposite of what God said an incidentially exactly what Satan told Eve, "You shall not surely die" (Gen 3:4). And more for thought, the first murderer, Cain, when presented with his punishment said. "My punishment is greater than I can bear" (Gen 4:13). what was his punishment? Gen 4:11-13 So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield its strength to you. A fugitive and a vagabond you shall be on the earth. And Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is greater than I can bear! So Cain was not told of eternal torment either, his punishment was on the earth, if he knew that his punishment was eternal torment in never ending flames with a heat of 300 degrees, while being beaten up by demons, he may have considered being a vagabond in the earth bearable by comparrison. The truth is that Cain knew of no such thing as eternal torment, nor did Adam. Was God deceptive with them? I don't think so. Read on through the old testament and you will only find punishments that fit the crime, never does God warn of such horrendous consequences for sin. The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23), not eternal torment, this is the price Christ paid. If eternal torment is the wages of sin then Christ has not attoned for anyone because He did not and is not sufferring eternally. Christians need rational thought based on the scriptures and not the sensationalist rubbish that Bill Weise peddels. Look up every scripture he quotes, read it's context and you will see that none of them have to do with his hell, in fact most of them are on the earth. He purposely distorts the scriptures to support his rubbish. Over to you...
03/07/2011 07:40:06 PM
May God have mercy on our souls.
12/11/2010 08:51:26 AM
i sure believe this and there has been other stories about people who went down to hell, i think people who pretend there's is no hell are in for a rude awakening. pretending is for actors and kids, we need to grow up and stop pretending alot. HELL is a real place, i'd rather take a chance and believe this rather than not and find out the worst way of all, once youre there youre there for eternity, Just think of that, its forever i cant fathom what forever is, its a unimaginable word for me
12/04/2010 12:44:37 PM
I read the book. I found it very difficult to read. Although, I do not doubt his experience. One thing is for certain, hell will be unimaginable. All good gifts come from God. Hell will be the absence of God and all His gifts. Things like friendships, love, light, plants, food, family. I do not find it hard to believe that you will never see another person in hell. As he stated in the book, he could hear other people but could not see anyone but the demons. I really don't believe that words can describe the horrific atmosphere of hell. The reality is the people don't really want to believe in hell. The would rather pretend that it does not exist.
10/05/2010 12:59:52 PM
Well you may believe that hell is real ior not real. I believe hell is a kingdom and heaven is a kingdom. I believe in Christ. I had experiences where I felt like my sould was going to hell. For example I would of course fall asleep at bed time. I would suddenly wake up and I would feel like my soul was sinking. I would wake up trying to force my self to stay awake then would feel like some spirit was forcing me to fall back to sleep so I would have the same experience as if my soul was sinking into hell. I would lay in bed repeating bible verses but I do not know if that would work for me. I would then finally barely have enough strength to force myself to get out of bed turn on the light and television and lay there. So people it was either God sending me a message or an evil spiritual force trying to send me a message. That was my horrible experience.
03/13/2010 11:19:21 AM
While I completely understand and can emphasize with the message, there are some very troubling points in the story, first and foremost, from his description, how were those creatures all crammed into a 10x15 foot cell with there then being room to spare for them to frantically stride back and forth like a lion in a cage? No doubt he appears to believe his experience, and his stated mission, but in my opinion, believers are amiss to simply accept what realistically appears to be a typical nightmare as actuality. I've had some whoppers myself in this life where the physical attributes of the dream and the effect on the body are strikingly similar, and I suspect many, believer and unbeliever have also. While I certainly will not reject his story across the board, I would like to point out that it is curious that his portrayal is very similar to early Renaissance paintings of hell where demons are rabidly chomping on the bodies of the condemned. Color me skeptic. We have the Holy Scriptures, GOD'S WORD. The Scriptures leave no doubt of the reality of hell. Why God would add to His word with the drama of an unbeliever being torn apart by fearsome beasts completely defeats the message of salvation through Jesus Christ. Or must we forget that Jesus Christ IS God?? In essence such a scenario as that being given is that Jesus is telling us that although He died for our sins and to provide an atonement, we wither accept this or not only will we be consigned to the fire, but be torn apart by fearsome beasts (like the scourging???) before we are dumped. Christians are their own worse enemies when it comes to witnessing to unbelievers and in my opinion that this is a prime example. All things considered, since this in now way is going to attract any converts, except out of fear, I believe it is Satan's work.
06/19/2009 02:37:47 PM
It is unfortunate that so many that have no knowledge of Jesus or the reality of the state of their soul speak with such hubris about things which they do not know. Those that say that this man was hallucinating or dreaming, those that say God can't or wouldn't do this are only fooling themselves. God can and will do whatever He feels He needs to to open the eyes of this world to their need for Him, the Bible says that His ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts; if that be true then how can anyone say He wouldn't do just what He did? those who die without Christ will go to hell period, telling yourself that it is only a dream when you get there will be of little comfort.
05/17/2009 07:57:34 PM
Strange that his body was visible to his wife while he was going through this hell experience. Strange that God took away his free will and memory during this. Strange that he mentions demons in hell doing things to people, yet the bible says nothing of demons. At best, he experienced hallucinations or bad dreams. At worst, he is another cult leader seeking peoples money and allegiance. Preying on people's fear is nothing but an age old method of control over people's lives in order to extort and coerce resources from them. This is the complete antithesis of FREEDOM, and is what all dictatorships are based on.
02/13/2009 06:54:04 PM
Stoat 100 ~ or this man was actually in Hell. You are either right or wrong. There is no in between...and the difference between the two, you being either right or wrong, means the difference between this man simply having a panicked delusional moment and you spending an eternity (An Eternity) In This Place! BE skeptical, but be skeptical with a passion for what the truth actually is. The very possibility that this place might actually exist for you gives validity to you making every effort to find out if this place is true or not. Hoping your faith is or becomes in Christ through the active pursuit of truth, and not a faith of lazy skepticism
12/27/2008 07:41:14 AM
The 2 key phrases in the text (and, I guess, the book) are: 'lying in bed' 'paralyzed' It's probably sleep paralysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis It's quite common and has happened to me - the body is still asleep, and hence largely paralyzed, but the mind is getting active prematurely - the result may be vivid hallucinations (the active brain is try to making sense of its sensory input, but because there isn't any - the eyes are closed etc - it makes it up, as per LSD etc) and often anxiety (the mind is aware that the body is paralyzed and fight / flight panic kicks in) It's suspected to be the cause of most 'alien abductions' - exactly the same thing happened before sci-fi and aliens, but the hallucinated beings were based on the folklore of the day: demons. Hence Incubus and Succubus. An entire book? Nice work if you can get it! :)
09/01/2008 09:17:19 AM
Who (what church) believes being good will get you into heaven? If you said Catholicism, Anglicanism, or Orthodoxy...BUZZZ!! WRONG! They do not believe this. Salvation is not a juridical reward for "asking Jesus into your heart", etc. Salvation is a relationship with Christ. That is to say our relationship is like a marriage. The person below who likened Heaven to Tahiti misses the point. Peace
05/23/2008 11:43:09 AM
Let me put it this way, if your final destination was either a wonderful paradise on a beach with no more worries and everything you ever needed OR a dark jail cell with nothing, which would you choose, the answer sounds simple, but in order to choose that paradise you had to put your faith in Jesus, and accept His salvation and live in His image. Gee the answer is still simple. All of that or a prison cell. hmmm God bless
05/23/2008 11:42:42 AM
I as well feel sorry for those who mock this story, or our Lord Jesus Christ for that matter. Saying this all isnt true may be your perception. But there is great amounts of evidence that the Bible and the Lord is the one Truth. SO maybe for the first time, consider this, what if your WRONG?, what if your perception and rejection of Christ will lead you to this horrific place? Put yourself in that cell in that environent, no way out. sure we dont know if Wiese's story was a reality or just a mere dream, but the truth remains the same, Hell is real, the Bible speaks on it, its for eternity, FOREVER!
03/23/2007 07:03:08 AM
If you read..Paul was taken to heaven and came back. He was also in the ministry for Christ. I think the Lord will use anyone he chooses to get HIS word out,these people could be a vessle that the Lord is using to show what WILL happen to those that are not His.
03/17/2007 11:49:06 AM
Wiese's book is very much similar to a book written by Mary K. Baxter in the 90's, A Divinie Revelation of Hell, I believe hell is a real place for persons who do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, some think goodness will get you into the Kingdom, Jesus said emphatically in John 3:3, 7, "you must be born again", and God does not send anyone to the hell which will be cast into the lake of fire Rev. 20:15, people send themselves for their refusal to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, John 3:16).
12/13/2006 03:27:50 PM
I feel very sorry for all the non-believers who have posted here... It is sad since many of you have totally missed the point of this Man's account... You the story in and of itself is not the message, this isn't a "scared straight" message... This book is to encourage people to read and understand the Bible. The specific experience that this man endured is not greater than the Truth that has already been written in the Bible. The Bible is the book of truth but many, myself included, have never read it... Its stories like these that trigger one to do their Truths... Furthermore, the saddest part about reading these blogs is that many are saying the good go to heaven and the bad go to hell... who are we to determine who is "good enough" to go to heaven. Human standards are not the standards which determine everlasting life. (cont)
11/14/2006 06:48:11 PM
I'm surprised that Charisma House even allowed this book to be published! While Hell is an awesome reality and Jesus painted Hell in the most gruesome of terms, I question the reality of his experience based upon the Scriptures he uses to support his experience. Besides, Moses said to the Rich Man that if they did not believe in the Scriptures, then no one would believe even if someone did come back from the dead and warn them.
06/23/2006 05:50:21 PM
This "experience" belongs in the same category as the detailed accounts of people who claim they were abducted by aliens (sometimes repeatedly) and subjected to incomprehensible scientific experiements.
06/22/2006 11:46:49 AM
I have a question: why would a loving God want one of His/Her children to experience Hell so people can be warned? Would a parent allow a child (who may be a pretty decent kid) to spend the night in the local jail to warn others about crime? We'd have that parent in the jail instead on child abuse charges. I wonder (sometimes) if these "visions" are more hallucinations/nightmares more than Divinely inspired visions. Peace!
05/17/2006 12:05:41 PM
I don't believe this guy at all. In the story where Lazarus was in heaven and he rich guy in hell, God denied the rich guy the ability to warn people because, if they didn't believe Moses, why would they believe him? This is the very reason why I don't believe this guy. God screwed himself.
05/14/2006 05:07:06 PM
I also had an experience in which I experienced the overwhelming eternal joy of heaven and utter despair and desolation of soul in hell. It was an experience I will nor could ever forget. I realize that God was revealing to me the truth of His Word. Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about heaven while He was no earth. If you read the story of Lazarus and the rich man very carefully you will sense the reality of hell. This is what Jesus wanted to show us since this was not a parable but a true story. All I know is that nothing in this world indicates to us what awaits us after death. It is all completely foreign to anything we know and experience here on earth. Many of the things that seem so important to us here are of no value to us there and vice versa. Therefore I humbly suggest that we place our eyes on the things that are above where God and eternity are and not on the things of this world which are fleeting and just for a moment.
04/12/2006 02:24:47 PM
I believe hell exsists and there is much reference to it in the Bible. You cannot be a Christian and not believe in hell. I don't believe in hell out of fear but out of faith. If we are to believe in heaven we have to believe in hell. We know at the very least it is a seperation from God our father. If we are seperated from all that is good,which is God then we must believe we will be with all that is evil, which is satan.
04/08/2006 06:41:26 PM
23 Minutes in Hell will make impact on people who already believe i Christianity, and will be a source of amusement to the atheists and science types who pigeon hole all paranormal experience into insanity, dreams, hallucination, or mental illness. This is how the world is. Perceptual boxes can be very airtight, and systems of beliefs can be as airtight The problem is, everyone dies, and if there is an afterlife, it is handy to prepare for it. It is easy to accept uncritically the party line of the state and science that you are a shaved monkey and helpless tool of the powers that be in society, but what if they lied, and reality is much more complex and supernatural than you were told.
04/07/2006 10:33:15 PM
Hell is as real a place as Heaven, in my opinion. Moreover, if one believes in Heaven, then there has to be a negative, evil place that one's soul goes to if they do evil things in this world, as punishment. A soul's reward for good is Heaven, Hell is the soul's sentence for wrongdoing and evil.
04/06/2006 02:58:47 PM
What a hoot! I have really enjoyed this wonderful myth and all the terrific responses. Thanks for making my day, Everyone!
04/06/2006 02:54:50 PM
Reading these posts from the beginning is very inspirational. MOST of you realize he was dreaming. FEW of you believe his fairy tale. That's encouraging. I thought the country had gone daft after the Terry Shiavo fiasco!
04/06/2006 02:46:07 PM
Bill Wiese certainly has a vivid imagination. But where is the evidence he can use to PROVE this wasn't a dream? I say it was.
04/06/2006 02:44:35 PM
Hell refers to a human Archetype, it exists only in your mind. It is an inner state of human agony. Just as Christ taught us the Kingdom of Heaven is within, so is Hell.
04/05/2006 03:07:51 PM
It amazes me that someone's "brain-spell" (love that term) is actually being printed into a book.
04/04/2006 11:06:46 AM
I believe we are in Hell right now. Remember Jesus said a new world will be formed and He will take the good with Him. Right now,here on earth, we have all the signs of the end times and people are so selfish and wanting more. Satan is in control of many.
04/04/2006 10:34:00 AM
lanceg100 - I agree with you, but they would have had to TRUELY found Christ and asked for forgiveness. It just seems ALL the incarcerated claim to have found Christ. I pray they ALL ask for and are given forgiveness. Thats all our Lord asks for, just ask from the depths of ones heart, and it shell be granted.
04/03/2006 06:41:09 PM
I mean, the real question here is, "If you're gong to believe everything you're told in the first place, what's the point of seeing anything, anyway?"
04/03/2006 06:19:36 PM
scientists can document a kind of sleep disorder that can make you feel like that ..hallucinations and all ..that perception of an evil presence is common ....usually happens when people are under some kind of bad stress It also happens when people are convinced that everything outside their dogmatic spiritual sheep-pen must be 'evil,' unfortunately. Yes, they're under stress. Sometimes, though, the real problem isn't the validity or intensity of the experience, so much as that we're taught to be both *passive,* and, frankly, *easily impressed.* We're taught that there *is* no experience beyond the 'ordinary' that is not either God,the Devil,or *insanity.* Frankly, whatever explanation you choose, I think they're *all* wrong. (cont below)
04/03/2006 06:19:10 PM
I'm an 'abductee,' myself, but I don't believe that rocks my world like many think it should. I think it tells us that a)You can't put a good face on disembowelment, and b) It's a big spirit-world, and the moment you think you need all the answers is the moment you turn into some messed-up 70's Dremel-tool wielding cattle-raper.... People cry 'Aliens,' cause they can't say, 'What the f** you doing, padre? People cry 'aliens' cause something's going on in their souls that don't *fit* all this damnation we're conditioned to scream about. And that's what that is.
04/03/2006 03:39:30 PM
The technical terms for such experiences as alien abductions, ghosts, succubi and the like are hypnogogic (before a dream) and hypnopompic (after a dream) states, in which mental delusions are particularly convincing and haunting. I don't think that is what the author is describing. Assuming his writing is not a complete fabrication, I would imagine he just had a very frightening and realistic dream, brought on by the frightening and gruesome teachings of his faith. The influence is clear, as he punctuates the tale with bible passages to support his particular concept of hell. Why believe in such a horrific human creation as hell? It is not a myth worth preserving. We can all be motivated to do good deeds because they are good; not because we fear punishment for doing bad deeds.
04/03/2006 10:07:00 AM
Mahbuf, I want to challenge what you said about murderers and child molesters. Provided that they truly reprent before they die, they can be saved. If you do not believe that, you do not know the gospel. I agree that they should stay in jail, because we in human society can't risk that they might perpetrate again. But no one, absolutely no one is outside the reach of God. To say otherwise is to insinuate Christ's death is not adequate, not infinite.
04/03/2006 09:01:25 AM
As loving and forgiving as God is, I don't believe that He can ever forgive child molesters or murderers. All others, if they seek forgiveness here on earth will forever see the face of God for eternity. God Bless
04/02/2006 04:12:57 PM
In the Bible, God, by Abraham, wouldn't allow the rich man to come back from the dead to warn anyone, his brothers, about hell, so why this guy? See Bible story of the rich man and Lazarus Luke 16: 19-31. It says if no one will listen to Moses and the prophets, why would anyone listen to someone back from the dead? He wasn't allowed to warn anyone. I've had the incubus, in my case, night hag, experience when I'd been sleepless and stressed out and it can feel like it's really happening to you, but it's not. The mind can convince you of things you'd wouldn't want to happen to you. I think he had a very bad nightmare.
04/01/2006 05:08:33 PM
the old subuccus and incubus are similar "brainspells" btw
04/01/2006 05:06:24 PM
he sounds like he had a bit of a "brainspell" (that's my word i dont remember what scientists call it ) scientists can document a kind of sleep disorder that can make you feel like that ..hallucinations and all ..that perception of an evil presence is common ....usually happens when people are under some kind of bad stress now having said that ..i think hell is the absence of a loving God (no, i dont put much faith in personal anecdotes of supernatural causation
03/31/2006 11:31:33 AM
For the record, thefish, it sounds like you had a great experience, in and of itself. Just because often what we see has at least as much to do with what we bring with us, as anything else, and how we speak them often has as much to do with where we bring them *back* to, and what with, as the vision itself, ...well, that doesn't diminish what it really is... We just have to watch how we interpret it. How we bring it home.
03/31/2006 11:16:06 AM
Well, it surely *does happen,* thefish. Even what could be termed 'legit' spiritual experiences can have a way of *uncorking* people... It's called a 'blowout,' in some circles. Most folks live in such a sheltered world as regards their consciousness... Hard rationalism with only a very specific few outlets and ways to interpret Spirit. This can mean sudden and alarming behavioral changes... Often sudden strident belief in *anything or everything* that they'd previously been skeptical or doubting or in a common perspective of. Heady stuff: often not distinguishable to the people around from some kind of manic episode... It can even *lead* to them, frankly. And that can leave people *vulnerable* to psychiatric conditions. (cont below)
03/31/2006 11:15:49 AM
When you start seeing things like extreme 'religiosity,' unsorted facts, uncontrolled hyperassociation, the subject might *feel* great but be in real danger of damage. Whether it's a 'positive' experience or a 'negative' one. I'm not trying to judge or diagnose your experience, here, just to point out that I've seen things run the gamut. The system, psychiatry, and well-meaning people... and ourselves, aren't *perfect,* but one has to work with what's there. Yeah, people freak out. Especially when someone's saying with an intensity preachers use on TV, things that their preachers *don't.* They don't know how to even *start* to deal with that. Even some doctors. Just that if you, or someone, can't *seem* sane, best consider the possibility they, or you, aren't right now.
03/31/2006 10:43:32 AM
My health and safety were not an issue...I was so damn HAPPY...my hubby had me locked up...nice, huh? And I found out later in Psychology class that in California there is a 51/50 law that states a person must be a danger to themself or another to be "locked down" for 72 hours. I was neither...yet it happened to me. It was bizarre to say the least...and what I *saw* was what I've always *seen*...Heaven all around me...right under our noses. Or what could be Heaven if people would create it. Peace <
03/31/2006 10:10:12 AM
Oops, somehow I misread "did he ever spend time in a psych ward," as "did *you,*" :)
03/31/2006 09:54:32 AM
Interesting...did he ever spend time in a pysch ward? Not as a patient, no. Sometimes that's the real trick of it. I did...and it wasn't from a "nightmare" but a real experience of being in Heaven...no, not leaving here but realizing it's been here right under our noses all along...and for that I spent 3 days in a psych ward... Some people do tend to think everything outside the ordinary is psychiatric distress or drugs, but that doesn't mean *nothing* is. :) Doesn't mean people don't *see* things during psychiatric episodes, either... but *that* doesn't necessarily mean some care isn't indicated, especially if the 'in touch' with something makes one *out of touch* with certain things important to your health and safety. I say that the *more* extraordinary the things you may experience, the more vigorous your own reality checks should be. That's a good way to avoid ending up on a psych ward, or needing to be there.
03/31/2006 09:42:44 AM
This reminds me alot of some of the alien abduction stories. Psychologists claim that these usually take place in light sleep when the brain is unusually receptive to vivid hallucinations. Very much so, ...earlier on I was desribing the role of 'sleep paralysis' in experiences like this, ...feelings of weakness in the dream or immobility in the wakefulness... the phenomenon can give an extraordinary sense of 'reality' to what's appearing in the mind. Basically, it's the experience of part of you thinking you're awake, when you're still in a dream-state of sorts, ...which means your body is subject to that which keeps you from moving along with what you're dreaming you're doing. Can be quite vivid and terrifying.
03/31/2006 12:01:07 AM
"i rather ask, why are we so quick not to believe or discredit someone who has experienced something that in our human minds cannot be explained? what if this is real and we are chossing to not believe because of our own fears?" Interesting...did he ever spend time in a pysch ward? I did...and it wasn't from a "nightmare" but a real experience of being in Heaven...no, not leaving here but realizing it's been here right under our noses all along...and for that I spent 3 days in a psych ward... How come some people can have these experiences and are taken seriously, but what happened to me is a moot point, nobody seems to be interested in what Heaven is, they don't believe me but will believe this??? Humans...what an intersting species we are... Just curious... Peace <
03/30/2006 10:10:51 PM
This reminds me alot of some of the alien abduction stories. Psychologists claim that these usually take place in light sleep when the brain is unusually receptive to vivid hallucinations.
03/30/2006 05:26:05 PM
Anyway, on this guy, it seems his source material on the details, if insp's observation is correct, was some stuff from an exposed fraud of a 'Satanic Panic' author. If it turns out he's been in with this crowd, it could even be a case of induced false-memory from one of those 'exorcism' things they do. I've seen that happen a few times. Take someone with psychological problems, tell them it's 'demons,' put them under stress and pressure... sleep and food dep, often... Baddabing: "It was real! I saw it! They sacrificed babies and buried them in this field, thousands of them! (Oh, they must have moved em.)" Needn't be anything so grand, just mess with someone's head... Which, at least, is what this book is intended to do, whether he had a bad visionary experience or not. Wouldn't be surprised at this point, if he even just made it all up.
03/30/2006 03:30:58 PM
Well, Bill, there's clearly an agenda of 'scaring people into the pews,' here. There may also be a real, terrifying experience the fellow had, shaped and interpreted by his programming... That tells us something about a lot of things, maybe just not what some folks intend.
03/30/2006 03:15:24 PM
Some guy has a hallucinatory experience and says he's here to tell us there's a Hell. How is that any different from anybody else's hallucinatory experience? If we were to believe each of these stories, wouldn't we be pulled in every direction? The Mormons (who don't believe in Hell) would have to be right - because Joseph Smith saw God? The Muslims (who do believe in Hell) would have to be right because Muhammad saw the Angel Gabriel in a cave. "Some guy had a vision" is not an answer to the question.
03/30/2006 02:51:20 PM
As for "Dr. Rebecca Brown," insp, you might want to peruse *this.* (sorry about forgetting how to make a link) http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=cabc&c=whs&id=4354
03/30/2006 02:22:29 PM
has anyone read 'He Came to Set the Captives Free' by Rebecca Brown, M.D. ? i did in 2002...and she is for real! she experienced satanic activity in her life, she was involved in satanism and herself became a High priestess. Later she suffered physical harm, close to death because of the satanic attacks set against her by demons or such creatures described here in this article. her descriptions are very close in detail to his descriptions. i rather ask, why are we so quick not to believe or discredit someone who has experienced something that in our human minds cannot be explained? what if this is real and we are chossing to not believe because of our own fears?
03/30/2006 11:05:19 AM
Well, nightmares can be teachers, if we don't let them scare us away from the learning and dreaming, itself. Hell-scapes can be particularly difficult when the *imagery and implications* are conditioned in one to be *too* scary to face and see through. It appears this guy chose to, or was only capable of turning around and trying to *spread* his nightmare-images: to *scare* people into observing the taboos of the people who constructed the scenario in the first place... It's probably all he knew to do. The real question would be, 'What are these scary and 'evil' images doing in my head, and what's *behind* them?'
03/30/2006 10:50:19 AM
"but because God wanted him to experience hell and warn others." huh. GOD "wanted" him to experience hell. huh.
03/30/2006 09:45:46 AM
Sounds like he had one hell of a nightmare to me.
03/30/2006 09:08:23 AM
Lets just say I think this ia a figment of his imagination . Too much fire and brimstone preaching... Well, the way it's told in a sort of 'Jack Chick-Correct' kind of way makes me very suspicious of embellishment, but people do take all kinds of things from visionary experiences, as I said. One could as easily call the images a figment of our *collective* imagination. From brimstone-sniffing to our horror movie addictions, it never ceases to amaze me what images we put in our collective heads. What we see here seems to have a lot of the hallmarks of a shamanic initiatory experience, ...just looks like the only room in his world for it was this idea of Hell.
03/30/2006 08:52:58 AM
Well, it looks so, Mike. Psychedelics can have a way of distancing one from the mental and emotional background clutter ...some of the mental 'comfort objects' that one may normally rely on. It's not so much like your God abandoned you, as thinking of him/her didn't bring about the usual emotional response, cause your brain was doing something else from usual. People tend to have a very passive view of their own perceptions, which can contribute to a lot of bad trips of various kinds. One could feel 'alone' and then fix on it as a source of distress, and fight it instead of feeling through it, making the whole 'struggle' really big... End up orienting to the source of the distress rather than what's actually going on in their consciousness. Kind of like this guy in a somewhat different kind of Bogus Journey. :)
03/30/2006 08:40:39 AM
Lets just say I think this ia a figment of his imagination . Too much fire and brimstone preaching...
03/30/2006 08:08:11 AM
23 minutes? That's nothing, homeboy. I had approx. 4 hrs. in hell, and I think the magic mushrooms I ate had something to do with it.... There was no fire, no demons, no beasts,,, just the feeling that God abandoned me.
03/30/2006 12:41:26 AM
One thing's clear, these images and ideas of a Hell are deeply traumatized and traumatizing. It's passed down by the culture and from person to person.... I think it results in much of the unreason and compliance to unreason we see aound us... People doing terrible things to each other in the name of 'rightousness,' when being 'wrong' results in such threats. Distressing visionary-type experiences just being part of it.
03/29/2006 09:36:22 PM
You could also *call for help,* just do it in a way you know you *can have it.* You can even pray, to whomever, though this may be difficult if you think you just got chunked into your God's Scary Basement for some reason. Important point is that it's a way of standing up, not 'begging for mercy.' General theme is, feel your experience, be in yourself, and stand up. Use your heart. Note how, if the sudden end to the tale reflects the experience, that he survived fear, he survived pain, he survived poison. But the cell door was open. Then he got a vision. Other people in similar pain, ...And then he was out. What he did with it when he got back, well... That's people.
03/29/2006 08:59:22 PM
Definitely, people get some pretty scary dreamscapes out of their programming. Course, he *does* seem to be reporting an awfully clear head for Bible quotes and versions for a guy who supposedly left his frontal lobes back on the Posturepedic. May just be a wee bit cooked, that. Certain Buddhist ideas of Hells would say you're in a place like that as long as you need to be. 23 minutes, ...not record time, surely, but a credible effort. :)
03/29/2006 08:56:50 PM
"This creature was stout and powerful, with thick legs and abnormally large feet." - for a thirteen foot tall incarnation of evil. Sure thing.
03/29/2006 08:07:55 PM
I don't believe you, other than to say that people have nightmares and hallucinations. That you had one or the other - or both - is hardly proof that there's any such place as Hell.