Rick Warren: 'God Didn't Need Us, He Wanted Us'

In part one of a two-part interview, Rick Warren talks about his surprising relationship with God.

LivingEZ123

11/01/2005 10:14:05 PM

It wasn’t sharing the book that placated the criminal, it was sharing the cocaine. The hero is an addict. I suspect the first story was a “cover”, sort of a white lie. Now she is out promoting books and redemption. Faith through the nose? She is being promoted as a role model by Warren? The media made her. I am sure she has a good agent, like Warren's. I wouldn’t mind having 10% of the proceeds of any best seller.

denisemac

10/28/2005 05:13:26 PM

thanks solid

denisemac

10/28/2005 05:09:55 PM

I don't need to read his book for he bares false statements of scripture as in The fifth thing, which you can’t do in heaven, is tell other people who don’t know that news yet. scripture tells us that no one goes to heaven except Jesus who came from heaven (john 3: 13,31) and that Jesus knows his sheep. His statements talk like G_d is some human without spiritual connection to his children and he is up somewhere in space. Rick limits G_ds knowledge as something that can not be reached without Rick telling you and guiding you. We do not need Ricks we need Jesus to dwell within in us and he teaches us all things. He helps us understand we are all one with G_d (Luke 17:21, john 17: 11)

SolidStand

10/28/2005 05:03:58 PM

Denisemac,Tovart,watsy: Iam now leaving to go out of town, I will respond in a couple of days. I will attempt to answer questions and give statements for your consideration Thanks Solid

denisemac

10/28/2005 02:35:58 PM

whereas the teaching of hell and damnation makes us walk around feeling dead because we get punished constantly because we sin constantly and we see no end of our torture. If you think you are without sin you are a liar and you do not have Jesus in you. So we can believe that we are punished all day long or believe that Jesus died for us and that he is with us teaching us and healing us daily so we can walk with the light of G-ds love shining through us.

denisemac

10/28/2005 02:11:48 PM

have a good day watsy God’s goal in life isn’t to make me comfortable. He isn’t interested in my comfort as he is in my character. when we come to G_d humbled this is what he wants for us john 10: 10 I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly. So therefore this statement from Rick is false. When we receive G_d in our lives we start to grow in grace there is no question we start to live good lives because we change our attitude towards it because we learn the love of G_d. We do not have to keep suffering as human beings without a paddle anymore. We know our direction is away from sin with G_ds help and love. There is no more punishing from man but a daily learning. G_d does not punish he teaches. Bad things happen because he is teaching us not because he is punishing us. We learn that sin brings unhappiness because it hurts us and others. Love cures all of that.

watsy

10/28/2005 01:41:22 PM

Good seeing you guys. I made a vow to spend less time on b-net and more time taking care of other responsibilites. Better get to it!

tovart

10/28/2005 01:37:17 PM

And yes, Solid, that is why I believe we are all children of God. All God's children.

denisemac

10/28/2005 01:36:02 PM

I am with Watsy on this. Prove it to me through scripture. That has always been my agreement with G_d to seek truth and accept what ever he reveals to me.

watsy

10/28/2005 01:35:56 PM

I've heard criticism that when people say that God is love that we reduce him to a single emotion. They don't seem to get that it's not human love that we're talking about. It's agape or divine love. If we could emulate, we would have peace on earth.

tovart

10/28/2005 01:35:24 PM

Just trying to help, here. Just trying to have a little ecstasy (spiritually). I love you guys, too.

watsy

10/28/2005 01:34:20 PM

I like your last post, too, Tovart. It was the Jesus being your brother post that really spoke to my heart.

denisemac

10/28/2005 01:33:31 PM

amen tovart

watsy

10/28/2005 01:33:17 PM

Tovart, That is really beautiful. That is how I see it, too. I love how you put it. Now, Solid. I have a very open mind. I read Scripture. God knows that I love him. I've told him that I'm open to changing my mind and buying your whole deal hook, line, and sinker. My only criteria is that it make sense. If I put myself in the time of Paul then I can make sense of it. They were still offering animal sacrifices in the temple in Jerusalem. God had given the Jews the Torah as a sign that they were reconciled to God and as a means to teach. He gave the gentiles Jesus. What Paul experienced was the living Spirit of God that changed him. He had to make sense of the rest. I don't believe that God required animal sacrifice. Why would I believe that he require a human sacrifice. Help me to make sense of that.

tovart

10/28/2005 01:27:30 PM

God is love, and love is God. We may not always as human emulate, but if there is an absolute that is it.

denisemac

10/28/2005 01:27:02 PM

watsy: I don't remember us being in such unison before. Your words are great and blissful. Thankyou so much for them.

denisemac

10/28/2005 01:25:19 PM

and on watsy's note... it is G_d who helps us stop sinning. It is not us who does it. For example G_d took away my habit of smoking away without ever having the desire again. When we ask him for things of understanding his will he helps us to understand and he helps us to overcome things we can not do on our own. No matter how hard we try on our own it doesn't work. This is the faith he talks about. That what so ever he says to believe. He promises eternal life and to help us in the here and now. Love and forgiving are the two most important things. Because G_d says we do not know if he used someone to teach us a lesson and we should not judge them just because of this. Like King David and he was being mocked and his soldier asked if he should hit him and David said "No G_d is using him to punish me so therefore I accpet it" Not his exact words but hopefully you get the point.

watsy

10/28/2005 01:19:41 PM

Read the words of St. Paul. For him it was about being "in Christ." It was about the living Christ. Have faith and believe that he lives within you, and then let him direct you to goodness. I believe that Paul received salvation when he realized that Christ lived within him. That's why rituals were no longer important to him. What became important were matters of the heart.

watsy

10/28/2005 01:06:40 PM

I believe that God made us in his image. That's what I mean by being a child of God. As to a spiritual birth, I really don't have the answer. I know that seems to be when people recognize that they are a child of God in a very real sense. It might be what Denismac said- that it happens when you learn to let G-d become a part of you. It might happen as it did for me- when I prayed really hard to let me feel his presence and I stopped fearing that everyone was going to hell. It might happen as it did for a friend of mine when he was listening to music and felt the Lord's presence. I don't know, Solid. All that I can say is that if I'm wrong then God should stop making his presence known to people who aren't following your rules.

denisemac

10/28/2005 01:00:51 PM

I was just reminded of another story. A centurian came to Jesus to heal his child and Jesus said he would come to his house but he said I am not worthy but if you would just say the word and Jesus said I have not found such faith. The man did not confess the man did not repent he accepted and believe that Jesus loved him and his child and his child was healed. I think this says it all. We are all sinners and if you think you are saved just because you confessed you need to seek further.

denisemac

10/28/2005 12:47:24 PM

and again if you read other scripture he is talking to men who believe in the fact that all sinners will perish. He was not confirming that only that they needed to stop judging. We must go to other scripture for proof of this but there is no such scripture.

denisemac

10/28/2005 12:42:19 PM

ok here is a real good test of your understanding of sin. Luke 13: 1-5 men telling Jesus of some sinning Gallaeans and Jesus asked them if they think that the Gallaeans are worse then the rest. or those killed by a tower in siloam. He told them that if they did not repent they would also perish. Tell me from reading the story do you realize he was talking about them finking on the sinners? The point is Solid I already confessed and repented but I never received the holy spirit until I learned to let G_d become a part of me. I had to do more then just say this I had to accept him into my heart.

tovart

10/28/2005 08:00:42 AM

I think of Christ's own condemnation by men. The Christ, innocent of crime, condemned by men, again, to death. He accepted this, and three days later resurrected. Yes, I think I very much prefer God's judgment over any rendered by men. My faith is that I will stand before a loving, forgiving God, who will be a very much superior judge.

tovart

10/28/2005 07:58:12 AM

(continued from below) I think of the thief who was condemned and executed alongside Christ. Here was a man that, again, his society and peers pronounced a judgment of death upon him. A man whose acts were deserved of crucifixion. What did Christ tell him? Was it not that he would be with his Father? (continued)

tovart

10/28/2005 07:55:47 AM

3 instances of condemnation from the Bible come to mind: The story of the adulteress, the thief on the cross, and Christ's own condemnation by men. When the harlot was about to be condemned by her society, what did Christ do? He asked her would be executioners who among them were without sin. None could fit the bill, none could condemn her. The greatest point of that story was that Christ did not condemn her, rather he spared her and restored her. (continued)

denisemac

10/27/2005 09:50:00 PM

and do you not also agree CK that we learn daily also? That we must take to task what others point to us? I only ask that you requestion what I stated.

denisemac

10/27/2005 09:39:15 PM

CK: I know you do but you have listened also to those who have taught you. Please read with an open heart to G_d. I mean how many understand this passage john 13: 25-27 He then lying on Jesus breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?... and after the sop satan entered into him. It is satan entering into us. Satan has no children. For you also know that you can take scripture out of context if you do not put it all together.

cknuck

10/27/2005 09:21:47 PM

Denisemac I didn't say it Jesus did, so unless you can change scripture I will believe what Jesus has said in the Holy Bible. I am searching scripture on a daily basis it's my desire as well as my job to search scripture.

denisemac

10/27/2005 06:44:18 PM

Wow I don't know what to say to you who claim that some are Satan's child. We are all his children but if you want to believe such a horrible thing go ahead. It would take a while to sit down and show scripture to prove you wrong but if I were you I would do some scripture searching to find out if I am right.

watsy

10/27/2005 06:20:22 PM

I believe that people can turn so far away from God and behave in such a way that is so far removed from God that it would appear that Satan is their father. I think that Jesus could easily identify them. I, also, believe that Christ could turn their life around. Maybe I'll take a look at Rick Warren's book. I'll check it out in the library or book store. I'll pay for it once he stops getting lame Presidents elected.

cknuck

10/27/2005 05:51:36 PM

I believe Jesus used metaphors, but I do not believe writer's would quote Jesus using metaphors. I believer that there are children of satan but I believe also it's not a hopeless situation and anything can happen through Christ. I was lost but now I'm found. That's why the Rick Warren's of this world are so important, many cannot find their way and a book like Purpose Driven Life may be just what some folk needed to find out what God has purposed for us. But just because it is God's purpose does not mean all will accept the invitation of the gospel.

watsy

10/27/2005 05:33:59 PM

Does anyone believe that the writers of the Gospels were smart enough to write in metaphors?

watsy

10/27/2005 05:32:38 PM

Why bother turning towards God if you're just Satan spawned?

cknuck

10/27/2005 05:31:30 PM

You're right Solid, even Jesus said to some "your father is Satan"

watsy

10/27/2005 05:31:08 PM

I believe that recognizing that you are a spiritual child of God is the first step towards developing a love relationship with God.

watsy

10/27/2005 05:29:21 PM

I had a spiritual awakening that I believe was from the Holy Spirit. He told me that we are all Children of God, Solid. He revealed that to me. I, also, felt his grace. I believe that to say differently would be denying what He revealed to me. Like all children, it doesn't mean that we're all obedient to God. It doesn't mean that we all move towards God and make him a part of our life. We are all children. We are all loved. We need to honor our part in the family by honoring God. We don't do that. Hypothetical: If you were Jesus, which would tick you off more? 1. A person who accepted or believed that he died for our sins and then never prayed, never read the Bible, didn't involve oneself in a ministry, and mostly, didn't follow his commands. OR 2. A person who didn't believe that he died for their sins but prayed, read their Holy Book, and attempted to do the will of the Father.

SolidStand

10/27/2005 05:18:02 PM

Watsy: The problem is, you believe we are all the children of God. This is not a biblical truth. It is not even remotely assumed or even insinuated in the bible. This is the invention of men who were devoid of the truth regarding this issue. I would advise you to lay a solid foundation for yourself build it upon the Word of God, which Jesus said will "never pass away". Solid

watsy

10/27/2005 05:16:35 PM

Man's inhumanity to man makes me so sad. Maybe that's why I'm a grace for all believer. I think that when you believe that Jesus died for all and that we are all children of God it forces us to a higher level of behavior towards others than when we believe that we're part of a club. Sometimes, however, I do think that it would be nice if we could scare people into doing what's right because of a fear of hell. Imagine how different our government would look if all of our elected leaders thought they'd go to hell if they didn't act with honesty and integrity. Don't tell the truth- go directly to hell. Be self-serving rather than country serving- go directly to hell. That's really the problem, Solid. People aren't afraid anymore because they think that Jesus did the deed for them. What if he didn't?

cknuck

10/27/2005 04:54:31 PM

You're right on target here watsy, I know because for many years I did not look like a child of God but did look like a child of Satan. That's changed due to the grace of God and a desire to change from me. It's like that old saying about Moses, you never know who is in the basket. Only god can say who is a child of God, religion doesn’t matter.

watsy

10/27/2005 04:48:51 PM

I've had fundamentalist Christians tell me that I'm not a child of God because I see things a little differently. The problem is that the same people who decide that a person is/isn't a child of God are the same people who decide that a person is/is not a child of satan. People aren't real nice to those who they believe are children of satan.

watsy

10/27/2005 04:44:21 PM

Act 6:6 Paul was not able to preach the gospel in Asia because the Holy Spirit kept him from doing it. Maybe the Spirit was giving the people of Asia their own Word?

cknuck

10/27/2005 04:41:34 PM

"That there is no difference between man and woman, Jew and gentile, etc. That we are all children of God." You are mostly right watsy, we must remember that Jesus Himself said that some were children of the devil. "Your father is Satan". So from the words of Jesus not everyone are children of God.

cknuck

10/27/2005 04:36:51 PM

watsy it is true no one can tell you that you are not a child of God, only God can make that decision.

watsy

10/27/2005 04:34:41 PM

Paul's interesting. He was zealous for God before he was born-again. What did he discover on the road to Damascus? That there is no difference between man and woman, Jew and gentile, etc. That we are all children of God. He learned of the loving grace of God and what that means in terms of your faith. God has forgiven our sins through Jesus. Jesus(Spirit of God, Christ) lives in us. Solid, you can tell me what the Bible says all you want, but I know people who aren't Christian who believe that the Spirit lives in them and it works in them. I think that you limit Jesus.

watsy

10/27/2005 04:26:54 PM

Solid said, "We cannot put the cart before the horse, the BENEFITS of God grace and mercies are not seen until one ENTERS into the grace and mercy of God by faith. Then one begins to act as a loved Child of God. Until then warnings and messages to repent and believe are appropriate." I know Jews who believe in the grace and mercy of God and act as loved Children of God. I don't know enough Muslims, but I believe that God has delivered his Word to them and that they act as loved Children of God. I know a few people who are extremely spiritual, don't buy into Christian theology, but believe in the love and mercy of God and behave as Children of God. I know that I'm a Child of God because I know it. I have no doubts at all about it. I argue the most with fundamentalist Christians at this site. Why did God tell me that I'm a Child of God if I'm not?

cknuck

10/27/2005 04:24:55 PM

Paul said "should we continue to sin? Heck no."

cknuck

10/27/2005 04:22:59 PM

"he told his apostle to go and teach the good news not the bad news of hell and damnation." The thing about what you say here Denisemac is in order for it to be "Good News" there has got to be bad news. To say God picked some of us and there is no hope for the rest of us is a even more grime message. I believe all are chosen but few will serve.

watsy

10/27/2005 04:19:24 PM

You ask why does man need a Savior if their is no hell? I have to ask. Why should man worry about their little sins if they believe that they've been saved?

watsy

10/27/2005 04:18:08 PM

Solid, you said, "I am merely quoting the Words of Jesus who not only forgives sins but will also bring everlasting punishment upon those who will not part with those sins." Where does that leave people who SAY that they have accepted Christ as their Savior but don't seem to want to part with their sins? Some of those sins being those where there is no ambiguity. Let's not kid ourselves. The churches are full of such people. I would accept what you say much easier if you'd tie believing and accepting with man's responsibility to repent or the deal in null and void.

denisemac

10/27/2005 04:15:31 PM

when G_d spoke of fearing him over the one who can kill the body is exactly that. If you follow man because you are afraid of being on the outside then yes use fear of G_d over it. But G_d says he choses us not we chose him so therefore your analyses is wrong. Twisting scripture to create fear is very wrong. It is so important to read to whom he is speaking to. He was not speaking to those who believed in him but those following after the false teachers. he told his apostle to go and teach the good news not the bad news of hell and damnation.

tovart

10/27/2005 04:12:01 PM

It may be some other form of relationship, not the best one. Do you want your wife to stay with you because she's scared of you, or because she loves you?

cknuck

10/27/2005 04:09:52 PM

Actually outside of our marvelous construction, we are not such wonderful creatures. Have you look around lately, nothing treats man as horribly as man. I believe God is going to judge who belongs in hell and who does not. If the fear of that very real situation is the gateway that may bring some to relationship with God so much the better for that one. Jesus said not to fear man who can only take you physical life, (but we do) He said to fear the One who can take your soul. That is a healthy fear to me.

tovart

10/27/2005 03:56:44 PM

I believe you need to come to God out of Love and respect, not fear. Reverence is not the same as fear. I revere God by respecting and caring for his creation, my fellow humans, all of it. That is reverence. Coming to God because I am afraid of hell is hypocritical. The "punishment" you speak of, I believe people bring on themselves. I personally keep God out of the blame. People are the ones that create the hell, not God. I do not believe God created all of these wonderful creatures to throw them in an incinerator. Plain and simple.

SolidStand

10/27/2005 03:52:45 PM

Tovart: You are beginning to see. God reveals great love and kindnesses to those of his children who have believed. They have abundance of mercies, love and grace. But the children of God live upon the love and grace of God. The believer is motivated by love to God and fear of his chastenings. But to a believer even chastenings bring blessing. We cannot put the cart before the horse, the BENEFITS of God grace and mercies are not seen until one ENTERS into the grace and mercy of God by faith. Then one begins to act as a loved Child of God. Until then warnings and messages to repent and believe are appropriate. Man doesnt know the love of God until he sees how God has greatly forgiven him. Therefore man doesnt love God until he knows he has been offered mercy and loved FIRST by God. Solid

cknuck

10/27/2005 03:48:22 PM

"So you believe that God wants people to come to him out of fear?" Absolutly, tovart, He is the God that created the universe and us for His good purpose, not ours To show a little respect, not treat God like He's a genie, and not recreate Him would be wise to me. And when you get to know Him it's more like reverence than fear.

SolidStand

10/27/2005 03:45:42 PM

Tovart: If you do not believe there is anything to fear in regards to the punishment of sin, then truly why the need of a Savior? If there is nothing to fear by disobeying God and rebelling against his Word, then it would be reasonable to say God is full of idle threats. One need not pay any attention to his claims, His love cannot be true if He lies about his judgments. They all stand or fall together Tovart, God who will not lie about his love, will not lie about his wrath. If God is really not going to judge sin and there is nothing to be feared, then the need of a Savior is false and Jesus Christ is utterly unnecessary and absurd. But all history says otherwise, that man is held accountable and will answer for himself at the bar of God. Solid

tovart

10/27/2005 03:44:35 PM

I do not see that God made a world of slaves.

tovart

10/27/2005 03:42:15 PM

In your opinion, there is more importance to be placed on scripture that teaches punishment for exerting free will, rather than emphasize a free will devotion and choice to a God of love.

SolidStand

10/27/2005 03:38:49 PM

The revealing of the law of God is to reveal the standard of Gods holiness. To reveal the kind of God he is. We see God is so perfectly holy and pure that nothing unclean or impure can enter into his presence. But this same holiness that rejects all manner of evil is also our safeguard for truth. God cannot lie, He has said that man is sinful and all of them are fallen short of his glory. But he justifies them by faith and removes the penalty of sin and the judgment to wrath when Christ is believed upon. The promise of forgiveness is predicated upon his own holiness and purity. Therefore to say that God is not really requiring man to believe in his Son, is charging God with a lie, that Jesus didnt need to die to satisfy justice and the law of God. But God is no liar and has so revealed his holiness and love because He did send his Son and we who believe upon him are forgiven. Solid

tovart

10/27/2005 03:35:47 PM

So you believe that God wants people to come to him out of fear?

SolidStand

10/27/2005 03:30:51 PM

Denisemac: Jesus said what He said, the arguement is not with me but Him. I am merely quoting the Words of Jesus who not only forgives sins but will also bring everlasting punishment upon those who will not part with those sins. The Love of the Father in heaven is seen in that he has sent his Son to be the acceptable sacrifice for the sins of fallen men. The Father did this, because his own law which He will not break or alter must be satisfied. He therefore satisfied the Law by making sacrifice of his Son for us, and revealing a merciful love to us in warning to flee from judgment to mercy in Christ. Solid

SolidStand

10/27/2005 03:21:51 PM

Tovart: I can not only imagine it, I read it scripture. God calls us to repent and believe the gospel. That the call to repent is itself a great act of mercy. Gods judgment is against those who wilfully continue to sin until they die. Jesus Christ has come that we may have life, not that we already have life but that we DO NOT. It is not coercion to warn of judgments and punishment for sin, it is mercy. A true father warns his son of the consequences of sin and the penalty for law breaking, this is consistent with mercy. A false father who has no real love will let his child pass by with no warning. What you speak of is not love but merely permissiveness. God is not permissive with sin, all sin is disobedience and therefore the warnings are evidence of mercy and love in reality. Permissiveness is the act of selfish distancing carelessness. Solid

tovart

10/27/2005 03:11:47 PM

I feel that I should come to God, not because of fear of hell and damnation. Rather, I feel that I should come to God out of a yearning to reconnect with my source and my Creator to know him and which yearning I interpret as love for him/her. Not out of some need to escape hell. I cannot imagine a Loving God wanting you to come to him because you were afraid of some alternative. That is not love, that is coercion.

denisemac

10/27/2005 02:16:30 PM

solid: the punishment of sin is death says scripture. Therefore those who refuse to stop sinning will see death not eternal torture. The last thing Jesus will over power is death. It is a shame that someone can say they are the ones with truth but do not understand the love of a father. Why do you think Jesus hung around sinners? Because they knew they were but the leaders of the churches felt they were without sin and walked around pointing fingers at everyone else but jesus had nothing to do with them and said they would claim in the end they preached his name but he will say I knew you not. But one needs to read the scripture and openly look at who he is talking to and it is not those hanging around him.

SolidStand

10/27/2005 02:08:16 PM

Denisemac: Its not the preaching of hell that brings many to Christ, it is the offer of escaping hell, the offer of forgiveness and deliverance from the horrible bondages that sins bring upon us. I preach and teach the grace of God and his great lovingkindness toward us who believe, I believe the scripture to reveal the vast amount of mercies available to us in Christ. There is no limit to his wonderful gracious love for his people. But I contend and preach that not all are his people, but must come to the knowledge that they cannot save themselves, that Jesus Christ is the only way because there is NO OTHER WAY in which to know true thankfulness for sins forgiven. Ive said that if people believe they are not sinners, that they are good, then they will never believe Jesus to be a God and Savior, only a peer to give or take as they see fit. This is completely false to the true message of God. Solid

SolidStand

10/27/2005 01:59:35 PM

Watsy: God is not one sided. He both saves and destroys. God gets angry and has great wrath, he also has great mercies and lovingkindness. To believe that God is only one or the other is to believe wrongly and to misrepresent the God spoken of in scripture. We that preach the truth do well to tell all the truth about who God is and what He instructed his Apostles and prophets to say about him. Solid

denisemac

10/27/2005 01:57:16 PM

watsy: of course cares how we behave. It says even if one person turns to G_d the angels scream out in joy. Why? Because following G_d means our lives will be more fullfilling and caring and passionate. How do I know this? Because I changed when I accepted G_d and his son. He gave compassion to feel others pain. But along with that comes a turning from sin of looking down on others. the Commandments are nothing more then a guideline but we all sin and have to keep trying to stay in line. For we die daily as Paul says.

watsy

10/27/2005 01:32:54 PM

Much of what Solid says speaks truth. I believe that God does care about how we live our lives. I think that when we turn from God and behave in ways that are sinful that he grieves. He might get angry. Somewhere in the NT it says that our Holy Spirit grieves when we do wrong. I believe that God cares. I think that we are being too arrogant when we tell others about the judgment or mercy of God because that is not something that we see or experience in this world. You show me a scripture that tells me that God is a meany, and I'll show you one that says that he's not.

watsy

10/27/2005 01:26:01 PM

Denisemac, It sounds to me like you spend a lot of time praying to God and reading God's Word. I think that it's good that you believe that God works in your life. So many people act like he roamed the earth centuries ago, spoke to the experts, and then died. They forget that he lives in you. The hardest part about listening to others is discerning truth from nonsense. I believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to me. What he tells me is more consistent with Paul's message of love, grace, and seeking truth and righteousness through faith than what Solid is sharing.

denisemac

10/27/2005 12:47:56 PM

I don't love my family more then the G_d that I know. But there is no way I would accept a G_d who created us just give us eternal pain of fire. I really am not afraid of your G_d. Nor am I afraid of being with my family in hell for eternity if your G_d is true. I would rather be there then with people who have no compassion for those who they believe are going to hell. Why would G_d use fear to get people to believe in him? If you are doing it out of fear then you will resort back to your sins once you believe you are safe.

SolidStand

10/27/2005 11:22:18 AM

Denisemac: Beware of ultimatums. matt 10:37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. Jesus teaches that to love parents or family more than God is not sufficient to warrant being his disciple. You must carry the cross and Love God supremely, even his judgments. Solid

denisemac

10/27/2005 10:16:00 AM

as it speaks in 1 Corinthians chapter 3 that we, and I mean anyone who is spiritual, gives the milk but it is G_d who gives the meat for he is the one to give the knowledge. If we be the temple of G_d then we receive knowledge from him. So therefore even though I might not go to church and follow a priest I can have more knowledge because I seek truth and not mans and take the easy road and hand over my salvation to a human. And on that note if G_d so revealed to me that there really is a hell were my loved ones would suffer for eternity while I went on to a life of peace I would defunk G_d and go with my loved ones to hell.

SolidStand

10/27/2005 09:21:12 AM

Denisemac: The Spirit of God teaches us the Word of God that is true. But God also sent his anointed teachers to instruct WITH THE WORD those people whom he has called. God uses man as the means to teach. Gods Spirit is the one that enlightens the mind and heart to believe and act upon what is taught. To reject men as Gods teachers is to reject the Spirit of God who teaches us that God has anointed certain men to preach and teach the gospel. Solid

SolidStand

10/27/2005 09:17:19 AM

cnuck: The Jesus that saves from sin said: Matt 25:45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. If Jesus had to die for sins, He had to pay the debt to God for our sins. If Jesus be not followed then those who die in their own sins will go to everlasting punishment. Jesus says there is a hell, the same Jesus that says he forgives sins. Solid

cknuck

10/26/2005 10:27:07 PM

If there is a hell and damnation and just as much as one group says it isn't and may be right the other group may be right also. I've always been happier that I believe Jesus died for my sins and I love others and treat them well. I've read "The Purpose Driven Life" twice I guess that makes me a Rick Warren fan.

denisemac

10/26/2005 08:39:15 PM

IT just seems to me that if one claims we need to hear the word of G_d from a priest (when the priesthood was taken away from man) that they are not accepting the holy spirit from G_d that he promised we would receive upon receiving him and G_d who would show us all things. When we read scripture the holy spirit guides us into knowledge we don't need interpretation from anyone else.

denisemac

10/26/2005 06:04:22 PM

I believe every word jesus stated but for you to say that only you know his word is blasphme at the least. Look around you and see many profess to know Jesus and do not claim a hell. I have been taught by G_ds word and have been all kinds of authority. ok

SolidStand

10/26/2005 05:26:47 PM

Denisemac: No one is screaming anything, but you are exaggerating. When you dont know and dont believe the truth of Jesus Christ, then you can never speak with any authority about anything God says. When you love Gods message, to repeat that same message becomes precious to you. If you make up your own message then every voice but your own is rejected. The message of the gospel is loved by those who preach the same. Those who have their own 'way' are always alone in the proclaiming of any message. No one can agree with you, when you are making up your own theory. In the end, its utter blind faith and presumption that would carry a person to think they can ignore the message God gave, for one they contrive themselves. Solid

denisemac

10/26/2005 04:42:55 PM

"I will justify whom I willj" says G_d himself so who are you to judge who will or will not make it?

denisemac

10/26/2005 04:41:19 PM

I think anyone who screams hell and damnation are afraid themselves of going to hell and think the rest of the world is going with them. I don't know of anyone who doesn't realize that they are a sinner. But what Rich Warren is trying to say is that G_d will need to ask those who are of Christs questions as to how good we really were to the teachings. But if you are not Jesus will already know for knows all of his children and i feel this is putting a limit on our knowledge of knowing that G_d walks with us all of the time. But seeks G_ds wisdom in scripture and not mans and you won't have to be afraid for G_d will let you know. Who is man that he knows the ways of G_d?

espiritus85

10/26/2005 04:33:11 PM

I say if the bible speaks for itself, there's no need for you to tell others how to read it. Am I right?

SolidStand

10/26/2005 03:56:41 PM

Sinning is a God offending act. Therefore when man comes before God to give account God will be understood as taking their sins against him as a personal and direct offense. The whole bible is full of this truth and speaks of it clearly. But the way to God is not by making up stories about how God is not like the bible, but instead realizing God is exactly like the bible says. When we realize we have offended him, then asking forgiveness of God and repenting of sin for Gods sake is the right thing to do. But that makes us sinners, and guilty and agreeable to a just punishment...but today we like a god of our own manufacture, one that leaves us in our sins and then justifies them. Calling evil good and good evil. Solid

SolidStand

10/26/2005 03:49:19 PM

We are nothing like Jesus. Those of us who are born of God are like him and act like him in ways that are similar. But those who are not born of God never act like him, not even for a minute. Their motivations are not like his, His words and thinking is so far beyond sinful humans it cant be compared. Jesus is wonderful, we are sinful and there is no good thing in us. But as I said, today there are so few sinners, everyone is so approving about how good they are that when Jesus talks about sin, they know he means "someone else" Solid

espiritus85

10/26/2005 02:27:29 PM

Lamahearer, most religions and scriptures have stood for years. What is your point? BTW, which tried and true version do you adhere to?

Iamahearer

10/26/2005 10:44:53 AM

The Word of God has stood for years, Where do we stand? Have we read His Word today? Today I heard from the Word thru Isiah 55:8-13. Gods' Word shall prosper and His seed shall grow. God talks to us thru the preacher by His Word. Every thing else is our opinion. I have read RW and prefer to stick to the tried and true Bible.

espiritus85

10/25/2005 04:54:11 PM

Aint that the truth. Given that fact, I don't see how anyone is not inclined to belive that this sort of embellishing hasn't been going on from the very beginning.

SevenThunders

10/25/2005 04:07:08 PM

I believe Rick Warren's idea that Jesus Christ will ask every person two questions in the afterlife points to a fundamental weakness in modern evangelical thinking. The truth is this conversation is simply a fiction. Yet in this context and in RW's book, in which it appears, it is presented as the very voice of God. That goes too far. To say God will ask these specific questions or ask any number of questions of anyone is presumptuous. I do not doubt RW's sincerity but I am suspect of his reading things into scripture that are not there. To elevate human speculation to divine utterance is the height of pride. There is a glut of these elevation shifts in contemporary evangelical thought and they destort and deflect from the gospel message.

denisemac

10/25/2005 03:20:17 PM

phyllisdear: I am glad you are not holding judgement against others. For I myself may come off as afraid when actually I would just feel embarassed not being able to understand you. I have no outwardly flaws but my inner self gets hurt easy and I can't handle rejection. Therefore I really don't have any friends but we can walk with G_d and know we are special because we know him.

phyllisdear

10/25/2005 02:41:21 PM

I believe God's first commandment: To love Him and to love one another.Unfortunately, I didn't recieve much love(friendship) during my childhood,outside my family. I grew up and still am an epileptic. Many people are still frightened of me. It's still very sad,2005,people are still afraid of me. But, I love the Lord and He has helped me do many wonderful things. Graduate college-next year. Praise God! And I have never felt resentment toward others for any reason. I feel we are responsible for what we make of ourselves.

watsy

10/25/2005 02:37:36 PM

I believe that what is pleasing to God is not ambiguous. It's, also, not unique to Christianity. What is unique to Christianity is the means that one uses to get there- permitting the Holy Spirit and Christ to lead you, guide you, and teach you. I've never read any of Rick Warren's books. I'd, probably, agree with much that he has to say. I just can't seem to get past my impression of him as being an agent of George Bush's.

cknuck

10/25/2005 12:52:14 PM

watsy what you quoted from scripture seems very clear too me. The Bible is clear we all may come different routes to get there but in the final directive it is clear what God requires of us. The trouble I think most humans have is trying to know God's thoughts through the Bible as if it was a manual on building or trouble shooting God. The Bible tells how man has lived in relationship to God and what is required of us. We make it complicated, with our different human agendas.

denisemac

10/25/2005 12:34:56 PM

watsy is right since the bible says our flesh and our minds are a eminity to G_d then we must daily depend on a connection with G_d to do his will daily. Because we are humans our emotions and basically who we are interfer that is where patience and love and understanding take place. Love one another and all else will fall into place. Words from scripture.

tovart

10/25/2005 12:15:50 PM

I have to say I agree with Watsy. I usually do for some reason. I see it this way. God must be understanding of variances in interpretation. If it were true that our Creator were so intolerant to differences of opinion and diversity, we would be living in a very different world. If there is one absolute and narrow version, then why are we not an automated, mechanical, unyielding and homogenized fold? I really do not see that he created that kind of world. Watsy, get your uniform on?

watsy

10/25/2005 11:05:56 AM

God's family is the church if the church is doing the will of God. Jesus said, "Who is my family? Those who do the will of God." It's up to each church to figure out if they are doing the will of God. How do you know if you're doing the will of God? Does anyone think that Jesus would disagree with Micah? "What he requires of us is this: to do what is just, to show constant love, and to live in humble fellowship with our God."

watsy

10/25/2005 11:05:45 AM

If the Word of God, as written in the Holy Bible, wasn't ambiguous, we wouldn't be arguing about interpretation all of the time. Pick up a training manual on "How to build a Car" and I bet that we can all agree on the meaning of the instructions(I'm not real mechanical- I might still need help). The fact that we can read the same passages and come to different conclusions means that spiritual matters, to some extent, are ambiguous. St. Paul agrees with me. He says that what we know now is only partial; then it will be complete- as complete as God's knowledge of me. Meanwhile these three things remain: faith, hope, and love; and the greatest of these is love.

tovart

10/25/2005 09:40:32 AM

So what is the true unambiguous message?

tovart

10/25/2005 09:40:01 AM

Okay, so what is the message?

cknuck

10/25/2005 07:36:50 AM

I agree with SolidStand and also stand against the notion that God's message ambiguous. There is only one interpretation that is true. It's up to the individual to find that truth, and that truth can be found through Christ Jesus. If God was open to interpretation then we all would be dead the Hitler’s of the world would have succeeded the Crusaders would have succeeded the Race purifiers would have succeeded. Death would be immanent.

espiritus85

10/24/2005 05:04:12 PM

I am not making up my own message I am condemning the message that ANYONE makes up to replace the one God gave. How do you know God gave it? Because other people told you? You need to realize where your faith really lies.

tovart

10/24/2005 04:29:30 PM

"..my own message I am condemning the message that ANYONE makes up to replace the one God gave..." And what is that message?

SolidStand

10/24/2005 10:52:32 AM

Themarirev: What you say sounds really spiritual and openminded. The fact is, that truth is not ambiguous, its not like you think it is. Truth is not a conglomeration of self-chosen self-realised principles. Truth is objective not subjective as you claim. The claim that all Christians have their own interpetations so therefore ANY interpetation is now as valid as anyother is poor logic. Its this very logic that you have founded your own religion upon. You are right about one thing though, its easy to see that you dont rightly judge between false and true, so when you say Im being judgmental, thats correct. But thats because I am not making up my own message I am condemning the message that ANYONE makes up to replace the one God gave. Solid

amilius

10/23/2005 11:21:44 PM

Espiritus85, I observe that evidence of the Creator realizing Desire is all about one in each and every moment of Now. What has functioned for me, in appreciating this process of divining experience, is asking, "In what context might this be so?" I've offered some of my favorite pieces to the puzzle so others may find the system, the re-solved puzzle, for themselves.

denisemac

10/23/2005 11:19:59 PM

and as far as the questions go... G-d has no need to ask us questions upon our resurrection. He knows us we are his. We talk to him daily he is within us teaching us knowing and remembering every hair on our head. Within a twinkling of an eye we will be made spiritual and we will see him in his glory and worship him as we were meant to do. With a pure love we never knew while in the flesh. and those who are not Christ will be resurrected (rev. 20; 12-15) will be given a chance to understand scripture and be judged and punished by Christ himself.

denisemac

10/23/2005 11:10:13 PM

it is true G_d created his family "us" but did not make us eternal but he has a plan of salvation of our eternity and wether you want to believe it or not does not matter. If you are Jesus's he knows you and there will come a time when you will know him and hear him.

denisemac

10/23/2005 11:07:49 PM

the wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is "everyone" that is born of the spirit. Again continue reading and discover more mysteries that the churches do not tell you. 13. and no man has ascended into heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man (Jesus) which is in heaven. No where in scripture does it say we go to heaven nor even hell. Your unholy interpretation of scripture and lack of reading the rest makes you proclaim such unholy things that G_d never said.

denisemac

10/23/2005 11:02:14 PM

born again: still people refuse to read all of scripture. This same scripture clearly explains it but no one wants to read anything except for the fact that Jesus says "born again". First of all Nicodemus meets him in private because he would be ridiculed meaning what the meaning he is seeking is not understood and would be considered blaspheme. Next Nicodemus even understands the fact of being reborn when you are old is a hard thing. So what does Jesus say? "that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. ok stop and think we are flesh right? Jesus was spirit and after death he will become spirit again right? Next statement cont.

rea_1219

10/23/2005 04:29:52 PM

Espiritus: "We'll find out what it is when it comes." So true. Although its in our nature to ask, intuit and seek, we can never be *sure* of the truth until its revealed to us.

espiritus85

10/23/2005 04:07:01 PM

Well said, Amilius. But, I'm not sure how it related to what I said. My point is that according to most religions, the Supreme Being's will is what is final. Therefore, we have nothing to ponder. We'll find out what it is when it comes.

amilius

10/23/2005 11:16:21 AM

espiritus85, How different would circumstances be if God empowers us to sort through inspirations, imagine choices, and realize what God desires? The circumstances would be the same. Want and desire are not the same thing, nor are purpose and need. Might it be that God realizes one's desires for a purpose that we might both understand and appreciate? Might this unsettle what you feel is settled? Of course. We are all One realizing Graciously Organized Design. Warren at least understands that purpose exists even if he insists on attaching want and need to it. Soon, he'll let go of finding purpose in sharing those as well.

cknuck

10/23/2005 05:13:32 AM

Our small minds will always struggle with what is truth. Rick Warren does seem to have a handle on it though. I've read all of his books and I like the kind of person who follows him.

tovart

10/22/2005 10:33:46 PM

themarirev, think of the implications, though, if you are right. And you are not alone.

espiritus85

10/22/2005 09:11:57 PM

Well, it's been established that God ultimately does what God wants. I think that settles it.

themarirev

10/22/2005 07:14:29 PM

Solid My problem is not believing the bible. My problem stems from the gross difference in interpretation. Each new denomination begins with five simple words,"What that really means is..." My belief is the statement of being "born again of water and of spirit" is a direct statement towards reincarnation. This is not something you agree with and what sets me apart from Christianity. Could I be wrong, yes. Could you be wrong, yes. I beleive with all my heart just as I am sure you do also. I will be judged by Gods criteria and not that of humanity. Nither I, Rick Warren or you can speak for God, only themselves. Like it or not, using whatever, the Qu'ran, the Torah or the New Testement as a tool to degrade a persons spiritual path is indeed judgementalism simply because, not being God, you can't truly say where a person is going. Rev

watsy

10/22/2005 05:23:39 PM

My concept of God is one of love, but it really has nothing to do with a human emotion. It's the opposite. It's about agape which is love that enables us to love others whom we don't like. It is associated with action. It means to rise above our human nature and love when we don't feel that another is worthy of our love. I have found this to be possible with the help of the Holy Spirit, but not without it.

LivingEZ123

10/22/2005 03:00:13 PM

Amilius: Your not anthropomorphic, appreciating creation in all its complexity and standing in awl. You acknowledge a creator of an ordered universe without defining that creator. Creation is more than a simple human emotion. Emotions can be explained through evolution. Emotions “motivate” human and animal activity. If there was no love between parent and child the parent would not nurture and protect the child to maturity. The child would not reproduce. Most mammals love their off spring. Fish & reptiles solved the problem by laying millions of eggs at one time. It is the anthropomorphic appeasement of deities through violence and blood that bothers me. Feeding the dragon so it won’t eat you. Interpreting the execution of a man, (no matter how good), as a sacrifice to appease a deity’s blood lust, which one can vicariously gain the benefit of only through creed & faith, that has caused so much persecution and murder of non Christians. It promotes the renunciation of reason.

amilius

10/22/2005 10:58:28 AM

LivingEZ123, I observe that God exists within and without religion. I also observe that Information is all there is and it has structure, a Graciously Organized Design. The regard of this structure is spirituality. The wonder is that religions have trouble with men appreciating this Graciously Organized Design without religion. All of this can be observed from a secular humanist perspective without religious limitations if One so chooses. If Grace is the simple awareness that all choice generates benefit for appreciation, gracious is the demonstration of that awareness. Within and with this awareness, One might explore and understand the puzzle of how one appreciates this design and who One is in relation to it. This is no mystery, neither is God. It is a simple puzzle of choosing perspective. All systems are puzzles appreciated. All puzzles are Graciously Organized Design.

LivingEZ123

10/22/2005 10:04:39 AM

Shomnec: Transference is a generally accepted concept in the social sciences. It is the process of the reproduction of forgotten experiences of early childhood and the transfer of emotions form the original person (or object) to another person (or object). The concept does not need defending.. It is also fact that humans have emotions, form families, love, fear, or that children seek out parents for love and protection. “God” is the unknown. That religious experience is organically based and can be reproduced it the laboratory with mild electrical stimulation to regions of the brain is scientifically factual. Many have an anthropomorphic understanding of “God”. It isn’t the love that is bothersome (although very simplistic), it is the pagan belief that some “gods” were arbitrary and power hungry (like many humans) and that certain “gods” needed to be placated by killing people and offering their blood or that “God” will send people to hell if this offering isn’t made vicariously through faith.

Daldianus

10/22/2005 07:09:54 AM

Would God be bored without us?

amilius

10/22/2005 03:17:02 AM

One would think that Mr. Warren would appreciate that 'wanting' creates just that experience. God wants nothing. God desires everything and realizes this through us when we appreciate how God functions. Unlike 'wanting', desire is appreciable with and without experience. Wanting is always without. Mr. Warren still thinks good and evil are opposites, too. They are not. Gracious is the opposite of evil. this is why the Golden Rule is recommended: It guarantees gracious behavior with choices when honored. It's all One Graciously Organized Design.

shomnec

10/22/2005 12:38:51 AM

Sorry, that come off cockier than I meant it... What I mean is that it's no more likely for humans to invent a loving God because they want/need one than a loving God to create people who have a need for love. You can't prove either. But you also can't say that one is more likely than the other.

shomnec

10/22/2005 12:28:28 AM

"A more accurate observation would be that humans are social animals that they need purpose and love and that they project these traits onto an imagined father deity who will love and take care of them." Can you prove that statement?

LivingEZ123

10/21/2005 11:43:01 PM

God as one human emotion is simplistic. It sells books and attracts the parental love starved. The statement that “the Bible says that God created the entire universe just so he could create this galaxy just so he could create earth so he could create human beings so he could create a family. God wanted a family…” is just plain inaccurate. The bible authors had no concept of the universe or galaxy. Earth is flat and covered by a dome. The sun stars and moon are living beings that take orders from the King. Creation is 5766 years old. A more accurate observation would be that humans are social animals that they need purpose and love and that they project these traits onto an imagined father deity who will love and take care of them. Anyone who realizes that 99% of what we worry about never happens and if it does it is not as bad a we thought realizes that they don’t need to project their anxiety onto an imagined parent. Truth is too complex to sell.

tovart

10/21/2005 05:46:07 PM

Ophelia, thank you for the Bible passages. While I will not argue that some people are interpreting scripture out of context, there is not one thing in or out of the Bible that will ever convince me that God created garbage on its way to the incinerator. Now, I will entertain the thought that people of their own free will may direct themselves on paths that may divert them from a more intimate relationship with their Creator, but I still do not believe that that will result in some "damnation." I believe that was the message in the parable of the prodigal son. I will also entertain the idea that those who claim exclusive authority and claim to salvation, may end up in some special place, but that still does not equate to "eternal death" or non-existence to those who choose a different path.

oophelia46

10/21/2005 04:47:08 PM

Tovart, to analyze scripture CORRECTLY, one must do so in context: "I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold, and 1 must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd." (John 10:16) This refers to Old Testament Jews, BEFORE the tearing of the veil in the Holy of Holies after Jesus died. "For to this end we toil and struggle, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe." (1 Timothy 4:10) "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all." (Titus 2:11) Jesus is offering salvation to ALL (so He only had to die once) because God is loving and does not force Himself on anyone, ONLY those who accept this offer will be saved. Just because Jesus paid the price, it's not automatically yours. You have to claim it and accept Him as the ONLY Savior.

tovart

10/21/2005 03:54:31 PM

I certainly won't argue that God has "birthed" us once, twice, however, many times as desired. I actually think what you stated backs up my idea about being born again, that through Christ we literally will be born again. That death is not really death rather leaving this life to the next as in being re-born or "born again."

SolidStand

10/21/2005 03:30:11 PM

Tovart: It doesnt mean anything of the sort. It means that God has birthed you spiritually into his own kingdom to be subject under his rule. He establishes his covenant with you and places you into Christ as a son. This makes one a true son of God, a follower of Jesus Christ. God birthing his own children into his own kingdom by his own power. It is not some contrived mystical conglomeration of religions, picking and chosing what you want and then attacking fundamentalist Christians as some define their ministries to be. It is not the act of baptism, church alliances, covenants or agreements with men and ministers it is the will of God and power of God that a man is born of God. Born not of the flesh but spiritually rising up from a life of sin and rebellion. Solid

tovart

10/21/2005 03:15:28 PM

Whose to say that when Christ spoke of being "born again," he did not mean just that. What if, after death (physical death, you actually go through a re-birth? The so called "passing," as it is referred to by us. Could it be passing into another "birth canal" into another existence, wherein, you are then greeted by Christ?

SolidStand

10/21/2005 03:06:19 PM

Themarirev: Whatever you have become matters not to me, it matters to God to whom you must give account. It is He that will judge you according to his Word. It is God that has revealed how to escape the wrath to come. I have no judgment of my own to offer I will be judged as all other men. But if I proclaim what He has said, I am not judgmental, I am being faithful to say what he says. If you believe the bible at all, you will find that being faithful to proclaim the word of God is what seperates the true from the false teachers. Solid

methodistsearching

10/21/2005 01:06:18 PM

Sorry, need to get on topic before the Tiger bumps me... The reason I ask is because Warren makes some open-minded comments about "What did you do with my son" to be very inclusive, which of course Imdancin and others have taken exception to.

methodistsearching

10/21/2005 01:02:49 PM

Imdancin: While you're at it, how about "Accepting Jesus Christ as my Savior"? What do I do, get up in front of a bunch of people and yell out "I accept Jesus Christ as my Saviour"? Is it possible that those things mean something deeper, that are (god forbid!!!) open to people of all faiths (and even NO faith!) and are actual lifestyles?

methodistsearching

10/21/2005 12:59:47 PM

Imdancin: Nice quote. It's in my bible too. What exactly does it mean? I know Jesus said it, but he was a little ambiguous as to the meaning, and how to become "born again". I once worked with a woman who assured me she was "born again" because she had gone through a little responsive ceremony at her church and said all the things that were printed on the paper they gave her. Forgive me, but I have to think there's a little more to it?

sagenav

10/21/2005 12:55:19 PM

I wonder what he does with all his money? Is he just another mega-church evangelist living large off of the business? I don't know I'm just asking.

themarirev

10/21/2005 12:40:33 PM

Solid, "So much on belief net is fringe ministries that cater to folks who want to make up their own christianity along the way to hell" You statement is why so many turn from Christianity. What do you think every new denomination is but a new form of Christianity? Hypocrisy is not the way to God, IMHO. Personally, because of those who make statements like yours, I no longer connect myself to Christainity even as I do beleieve in the ministry of Christ. This is why I became an Christilenne Ergonomical Minister 12 years ago. A minister for everyone, not just Christian believers. Rick Warren speaks alot like a Christilenne Minister, but his baptist doctrine sets him apart. Just as your judgementalism can set you apart from the love of God. Rev

SolidStand

10/21/2005 12:26:39 PM

God has greatly blessed Rick Warren. He is biblical, orthodox, generous and orderly. Im glad for a man on beliefnet that is representing the ministry of God. So much on belief net is fringe ministries that cater to folks who want to make up their own christianity along the way to hell. Solid

imdancin

10/21/2005 10:55:37 AM

Irish...You said, "Try to remember he is a baptist and a very open mind one at that. I bet you mostly likely he believe one is only saved that are born again." Warrren isn't the one who said that Irish. He did not coin that phrase. He might believe that but he did not write this. If you have a bible turn to John 3... There you can read about a man named Nicodemus: "There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he CANNOT see the kingdom of God."

imdancin

10/21/2005 10:55:28 AM

continued... Christ not Warren shows us that being born again is not optional. Warren had nothing to do with writing this or making it up. Christ said it while on earth. Warren just happens to believe scriptures, you however just happen to reject them. Or maybe you just were not aware that Christ himself said this.

catholicseeker

10/21/2005 10:21:18 AM

My mom and brother are big into this Purpose-driven stuff. But I'm not buying it. There are so many errors in this guy's theology. 1) Paul Tillich said, "No man can stand the idea of being the mere object of God." Yet that is precisely what Warren makes us out to be. I bristle at that. 2) The idea of the here and now as having no meaning, save as a staging area for eternity, is morally bankrupt. That's how we justify trashing the planet. 3) Warren's view of immortality,"trillions of years," I would find an unimaginable horror, as did George Bernard Shaw. So image-bound. So childish. Immortality, if it is real, is not bounded by any amount of time, space or matter, however large. 4) How could anyone be drawn to a God who condemns adherents of all but one religion? Such a god would be a monster, unworthy of worship.

strefanash

10/21/2005 12:32:18 AM

I took a look at his "purpose driven life" legalist, therefore man centred, and therefore heretical. So he makes one or two good points here. beware the truth a false preacher preaches, it is the bait on the hook. Warren's purpose driven life is in facta law driven life, not a grace informed one

protestant_irish

10/20/2005 11:09:50 PM

Try to remember he is a baptist and a very open mind one at that. I bet you mostly likely he believe one is only saved that are born again. I do not only believe christian will see God kingdom. I hope you senlin and all who believe in God will be saved since were just trying to do what is right.

senlin

10/20/2005 09:00:23 PM

The first question is, "What did you do with my Son Jesus Christ?" Not "What religion were you?" That is a religion question. What if God asked, "What did you do with Zeus?" or "What did you do with the Goddess?" No one would doubt that those are based on the perspective of a specific religion. And all cultures, all groups of people, have rituals, rules, and regulations, whether they recognize them as such or not. God would be a complete jerk to judge everyone on earth based on Christian doctrine (specifically on belief in the Trinity). Since I don't believe God is a complete jerk, I think He will judge people based on where they're coming from and whether they tried to do the best they could with what they were given. I should hope God's first question would be, "How did you make the world a better place?"

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