Why T.D. Jakes Stays Christian

The mega-preacher discusses his favorite Christian, his annoyance with politics, and even recites his favorite Psalm.

mnorris3

06/01/2005 09:42:58 PM

By the way, I am not going to defend Jake... he hides from his United Pentecostal background because it's theology is "Oneness"... Non-Trinitarian. However, he may have changed his philosophy over the years.

Heretic_for_Christ

05/31/2005 01:17:27 PM

LivingEZ, Christianity is not any one thing (although many Christians would insist that it IS, and in fact that is THEIR one thing). But I think that exclusivity of salvation is an integral part of doctrine. If everyone is saved, why even talk about salvation as an issue? There are many people who look at the teachings of Jesus and see a universal spiritual message, but more who look at the writings of Paul and see a restricted religious message. As Godisaheretic pointed out: Jesus said we would be known by our fruits, not by our dogma. Those who focus on dogma--which is ALWAYS about exclusivity--reveal themselves to be very far from the teachings of the one they claim to worship. And that is why I really don't care about Jakes' dogma. Dogma is all man-made, and usually silly.

LivingEZ123

05/31/2005 09:08:10 AM

" Godisaheretic 5/29/2005 11:10:17 PM when Jakes says "Christ is inclusive" I suspect he means Christ is inclusive of all Christian denominations..." This is a fundamental logical and moral failing of the right wing, that all non-Christians are damed. I don't know what Jake believes but if it is the reward of heaven for conversion and the punisment of Hell for those who are unconvinced I would hardly call it inclusive. I would call it bigotry inconsistent with the Bible and rational concepts of morality and ethics.

godisaheretic

05/29/2005 11:10:17 PM

when Jakes says "Christ is inclusive" I suspect he means Christ is inclusive of all Christian denominations... when I think of Christ being inclusive, I think of 1Timothy 4:10 "we hope in the living God who is the Savior of all"... in my opinion, the God of infinite love has more than enough mercy to be all-inclusive... here Jakes is not quoted as saying "all-inclusive"... hmmmm...

godisaheretic

05/28/2005 11:50:25 PM

"Either way he does get flack from heresy hunters..." well, there's some good news... if Jakes is a heretic, then in my opinion he is very much the kind that is like Jesus... compassionate toward needy people, and unconcerned with the dogmatists who think their version of God is the only correct one... I'm not sure he's all inclusive... and funny if he's not trinitarian because he is seen on Trinity Broadcasting Network... but Jesus said that his followers would be known by their fruit... didn't say known by their dogma... Jakes is far from perfect, but near to the path of Jesus... peace. David

SquirleyWurley

05/28/2005 11:13:53 PM

Well Christianity certainly does tend to exclude many people from an opportunity to reshape their lives. Contented homosexuals who see no reason to change, pagans, nonbelievers, doubters, 'heretics' etc. If TD Jakes wishes to make a point of being particularly inclusive, then he is bucking the trend and that's a good thing. But since he is not a trinitarian (If I am not mistaken he is either modalist or actually united Pentecostal. Either way he does get flack from heresy hunters like the 'Bible Answer Man' etc. for it), I'm not sure how inclusive he's being, and I'm not sure how legalistic he is, because I just don't know the details of his ministry, I just know the company he keeps and the sorts of people who like him, and they all are overly legalistic, overly dogmatic, and overly confident about certain people burning in Hell.

godisaheretic

05/28/2005 12:18:47 AM

"The translation here is not a matter of option or opinion." but it is opinion whether or not the translated words match reality... the words of "John" are his opinion of the reality of God... in my opinion...

strefanash

05/28/2005 12:14:58 AM

T.D Jakes? Billy Graham? just another preacher. I don't know who Jakes is, but that doesn't matter. . . celebrity hero worship has no place in the church of Christ

godisaheretic

05/27/2005 10:58:29 PM

Jakes "... there's a certain compassion that resonates in what I say that makes people feel comfortable with me. I think that my hurt comes through." Giantsfan24 "... God reveals himself in three modes or forms instead of three distinct persons..." I can only suggest that you ponder these two quotes and then tell which quote sounds more like someone walking in the path of Jesus... Jakes has a big congregation, some of whom are poor or sick or jobless or in rehab... footwashers are needed... the God of infinite love and mercy smiles on Good Samaritans not Good Modalists... much peace to you. David

BeliefnetLion

05/26/2005 11:24:21 PM

Please note that a number of posts have been moved to Moved from T.D. Jakes where members are welcome to discuss issues that are tangential to the accompanying article. Thanks! BeliefnetLion Beliefnet Community Monitor

godisaheretic

05/26/2005 10:47:53 PM

Giantsfan24 "Modalism"... I'm too tired to look that up but... Jakes believes what he believes... it doesn't worry me one bit if he believes that Jesus is divine or not... nobody knows for sure... it's just opinion... but... Jakes shows the fruit of the spirit... love joy peace kindness to his congregation... in my opinion, God values compassionate living more than orthodox opinion about modalism... Jakes is far from perfect, but near to the heart of Jesus... peace. David

giantsfan24

05/26/2005 08:12:48 PM

The only thing that worries me about Jakes is his possible beliefs on "Modalism". I have never heard him say, "yes i believe that Jesus is just a mode of the Father" so I advise everyone to check that out.

watsy

05/26/2005 03:33:01 PM

lindenmeadow- I agree. Preachers should preach the gospel and let the congregation decide how to vote. I have no problem with politicians pursuing votes, but I do have a problem with politicians getting votes by demonizing other people in the name of Jesus.

lindenmeadow

05/26/2005 11:33:18 AM

watsy, I agree with you 100%. Preachers have no business promoting the Republican party, the Democratic party, or even individual candidates from the pulpit. I come from the southern US, and black ministers in my area have openly told their church members to vote democrat, and also I've seen politicians, such as Bill Clinton, going to black churches and openly politicking in the pulpit. So, I was simply citing what I've observed before. And if you've observed white pastors doing the same thing--except that they're promoting the Republican party--then I certainly don't blame you for getting annoyed by it. That kind of stuff annoys me too. I just wanted to compliment Jakes for saying that he doesn't believe in telling his church members how to vote. If only more ministers had that policy...

thefish

05/26/2005 12:59:38 AM

watsy...spot on!!! Great pick-up! And, on topic, I really do like this article...gives me a greater glimpse into this man's heart... Peace <

Oceana2

05/26/2005 12:23:14 AM

This man with his 27th Pslam,etc sounds impressive! As we all know LORD is referred to as their Hebrew GOD in the OLD TESTAMENT. Just as Jesus expressed often to believe in GOD, the GOD of all people. Why he was murdered. And this man sounds like he walks the talk and got Jesus's message. Peace and Serenity

godisaheretic

05/25/2005 10:47:49 PM

Jakes can be considered to be a "televangelist" on a fundamentalist network TBN... what's good about his good name is that he seems to live out his faith for people in need... where some other prominent fundamentalist Christians seem to live out their faith against people who don't share their faith... Jakes should be an example of how to walk the walk with Jesus... peace. David

windbender

05/25/2005 10:14:04 PM

Jakes is the kind of Christian that gives Christians a good name - has been for years.

watsy

05/25/2005 06:01:45 PM

"But when we tell them how to vote we start manipulating their minds--and I respect my congregation too much to do that." I'm so glad to hear a preacher say that. I wish more white preachers would say the same. And I'm not being racist by saying that. Rather, it's because I've known of white preachers who turn their pulpits into a soap box for partisan politics--openly telling their congregation to vote republican. I find that obscene, regardless of the political party that's being touted. Ministers should not tell their churches who to vote for.

JohnDeem

05/25/2005 05:41:01 PM

I loved the thought that "It's people who complete you, not people who compete with you." I need to appreciate more the ways my wife completes me. And she truly does. This reminds me of something one of my favorite Christians said about harmony in marriage: "Ill-arranged notes produce discord. Tones of the human mind may be different, but they should be concordant in order to blend properly. Unselfish ambition, noble life-motives, and purity, — these constituents of thought, mingling, constitute individually and collectively true happiness, strength, and permanence." - Mary Baker Eddy Sound like T.D. embodies those qualities. I'd like to hear him sometime.

lindenmeadow

05/25/2005 05:06:19 PM

"But when we tell them how to vote we start manipulating their minds--and I respect my congregation too much to do that." I'm so glad to hear a preacher say that, especially a black preacher. And I'm not being racist by saying that. Rather, it's because I've known of black preachers who turn their pulpits into a soap box for partisan politics--openly telling their congregation to vote democrat. I find that obscene, regardless of the political party that's being touted. Ministers should not tell their churches who to vote for.

con-oo

05/25/2005 01:42:15 PM

I have seen T.D. jakes in person and he is one awesome christian man. I have alot of respect for him.

Heretic_for_Christ

05/25/2005 01:27:01 PM

Henrietta, I think the point is that homosexuality has been MADE INTO a political issue. I never heard of this minister before, and I tend to be cautious about forming impressions from a single brief interview, but Mr. Jakes sounds like the voice of rational and humane Christianity; I sincerely hope that he and others like him will rescue their faith from the rightwing fanatics who have usurped its public persona.

iane73

05/25/2005 12:46:46 PM

how would you say he comapres to fellow Texan Televeangelist John Hagee?

KIND6004

05/25/2005 12:42:50 PM

When I first heard about him, I wondered what was it that drew people to his ministry. But after the first time I heard him preach I understood. I think what he mentioned about the homeless population is true in Matthew 25th chapter the lord speaks about this subject. And I believe its also important his prison ministry. He is showing by what is important to him, that he wants to go to heaven. I think it impacts on someone who witnesses the homegoing of a believer. It gives you a reason to hold out til the end. To see what its going to be liek.

venarsis

05/25/2005 11:49:47 AM

watsy, Bless your heart. Thank you for going out of your way to find the info. Much appreciated!

Henrietta22

05/25/2005 11:46:19 AM

Quote from T.D.Jakes...We have reduced morality down to a couple of political issues, like gay marriage and abortion and things like that. Anything pertaining to Homosexuality is not, first and formost a political issue. It is an issue of Humanity and Being, and until the Clergy understands this and feels this dispair they are causing a whole section of Human Beings peace will not prevail. It was important for your race to fight for your acceptance and you won. Now the Parents, Relatives, and Friends of the Gay people are fighting for their rights too. You of all people should undrstand this. You sound like a great minister and I agree and like everything else you stated in your article.

watsy

05/25/2005 10:00:40 AM

When you read about everything that Rev Jakes congregation is doing in the community, you can see why they really don't have time to work for George Bush.

watsy

05/25/2005 09:58:47 AM

This is from the Potter House web site: (link in article) It currently houses these percentiles: 77% African-American 13% Caucasian 7% Hispanic 3% Other – comprised of 17 different nationalities. Men comprise 45% of the total congregation – a male involvement unusually high for a mostly minority church. The church brings together the down and out - the homeless and released offender – to sit beside the up and coming – the celebrity and community leader. They worship and serve together in one or more of the 59 different ministries within the church, including GED/literacy programs, AIDS outreach, the homeless in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, male mentorship, a debutante program for young ladies, and one of the nation’s largest and fastest growing prison ministry with a Prison Satellite Network Broadcasting to over 260 prisons in the land.

venarsis

05/25/2005 09:18:37 AM

Nice interview. I learned something about a person whom I didn't know before. The way he described his mother when she died was spectacular: Like a queen leaving the room! I guess when people truly love God, they all leave this world as kings & queens with crowns on their heads. Are followers of his church all African Americans or does it also include people of different races as well?!

rbethell

05/25/2005 09:03:26 AM

Although as a Catholic I'm instinctively a bit put out at the Rev. Jakes' claim to a bishopric, there's a lot to like about this man, particularly how he views his Sunday school teacher as his role model. Its hard not to admire Rev. Jakes' centered faith.

babyskittle

05/25/2005 01:19:38 AM

He's one of the few preachers I can stand to listen to on Sundays. I like his style.

watsy

05/24/2005 11:26:06 PM

Wow. A mega-preacher with a 30,000 member congregation in Texas, and I LIKE HIM! He knows the Lord. He's aware of politics. He worships GOD and not the GOP.

godisaheretic

05/24/2005 10:37:33 PM

"I dislike the fact that we have black and white lines in this country about who is, and who is not, a Christian--and sometimes we market the Christianity to one particular group, or audience, at the expense of excluding other people from it. While Christ is inclusive, sometimes religious leadership can be very narrow and tribal in our tendency to alienate people that we ought to be able to embrace." is he saying we ought to embrace ALL our neighbors? that those who are fundamentalist and Republican and straight aren't the only ones who make up real Christianity? he's sounding a lot like his Master... don't just care for your own particular group... even the ungodly do that... love all your neighbors as yourself... "Christ is inclusive"... amen... peace. David

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