'How We Open Our Hearts to God'
A spiritual lifeline for African-American slaves, prayer became a source of divine inspiration during the civil rights movement.
01/16/2007 09:59:22 AM
Dr King was a amazing person and if he were still alive today I do believe his dream of each of us treating the other as an equal would have come True. And the color of ones skin would not matter. This world would be much different than it is. And Prayer does make us stronger too as Coretta Scott King says. We need to pray to our Lord and King.
03/02/2006 04:00:08 AM
Whoever said (fromoz) that Islam does not condone slavery, that is a blatant lie! Actually the only society which still has salvery today IS ISLAM. Slavery is allowed in the Kur'an, and Muhamad himself owned slaves! Right now Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states are filled with Africans who have been kidnapped from East Africa and who live as slaves to muslims. Mauritania, an islamic country is still officially practicing slavery with families owned by others by birth, divided between the ones called 'Bidan'-whites, the owners-, and 'Khorotos'- blacks, the slaves. Sudan is a blatant example of the practice of modern slavery where Christian children are sold in slave markets today! Please get informed.
02/08/2006 09:08:16 PM
Dear lord; oh!please open the eyes of those of us who fail to see How to open our hearts to God. How thankful we are that you truly are a patient God.that you never forsaketh anyone not even your own.In thy name.Amen.
02/08/2006 08:55:00 PM
I honor Coretta Scott King for her classic example. At a time when images of African-Americans have been regressed back to Amos-n-Andy days, she stands as a figure of strength, grace, devotion, eloquence and determination. If Dr. King could study a Gandhi, in India, whose own methods were inspired by Thoreau, a white American protesting the Mexican War because he saw, in it, the attempt to expand slavery to the shores of the Pacific - I, a 40-year-old white guy in Florida, can learn something about humanity from a woman who endured indignities I can never completely fathom.
02/03/2006 04:34:12 PM
To the family of Coretta King my deepest condolences to the family, Mrs.King me to beleive in my dreams and stand up for my rights, my neice asked me to tell her about Mrs.King and my neice is 9 years old, she wanted to know the wonderful things Dr.King and Mrs.King did for the world, this made me feel even more tearful because Mrs. Coretta King got the attention of my neice. Mrs. Coretta King was a wonderful person to the world and she will be very dearly missed. May the angels placed the arms around the family and get them strength in the time of need.
02/03/2006 10:19:11 AM
This will tell my age a little but I can very well remember the days back in the 60's when Martin Luther King, Jr. and Coretta were getting started, I also remember my late father-in-laws remarks upon MLK'Jrs. assasination that that was no great loss. I didn't say anything but did feel slightly sorry for him, and greatly sorry for Coretta and the rest of the family. My father-in-law had grown up in a town where there were no African Americans and yes he was bigoted. I did grow up in a school system with African American students and although not close friends with any I think I could consider them friends. It is a sorry time now for the King family upon Coretta's going home but I think that her family will survive and continue the leadership their father started and mother continued.
02/03/2006 12:22:02 AM
She is the embodiment of grace under fire. Remebering her, she exhibited great faith. My prayers are with her family, they have given so much and sacrificed their whole lives for others, in breaking down racial barriers in churches and in public life. She broke down barriers for women of all races, she will be missed.
02/01/2006 07:09:32 AM
The power of prayer is great because God is great. Life is hard but it's a lot easier with the power of prayer and Jesus the Christ.
03/27/2004 10:41:47 AM
Never does the Lord promise us that it will be easy if we decide to follow Him. He only said it would be worth it. Coretta's story is a great example of how sometimes following the Lord, especially when were breaking new ground, can be hard, discouuraging, scary, and even dangerous. Nonetheless,I want to do my part. I don't think it was any picnic being crucified either, but where would we all be if Jesus had walked away from his trial.
03/17/2004 11:07:10 AM
what a beautiful story of faith. That is exactly how we know God is with us. thanks Coretta King for sharing such a wonderful inspiration. How can you explain to a non believer the feeling of God when he is with you? It is such a glorious thing.
01/29/2004 03:15:59 PM
imdancin Jesus once said to be persecuted in my image is a complement.Alot of the nonsense the atheist and others feel they do can distroy God but in the end their actoins prove God words have come true!
01/24/2004 11:44:44 AM
greling, I'll stand in left-field, right, field, anywhere you you think I should........... I will stand for JESUS CHRIST my Lord, whom you mock. So you can bash me, make fun of me, it doesn't hurt, not one bit. In fact it feels quit good. I walk in the word, you chose to walk in the flesh-in self Godhood. I wear the NAME of JESUS CHRIST proudly. Someday you will wish you had too, then you have have all eternity to think about the decision you made.
01/22/2004 04:22:04 PM
greling: God did give you a mind but He also gave you a soul and spirit and a deep need for Him. Having the Word of God which is alive and well come alive to an individual is far from being dry. If you didnt rely on your own reasoning so much and actually sought, with a little faith that the bible is true, to know God thru His Son Jesus, you would find such a fresh new truth, you would never be dry spiritually and you come alive in a way you never have before. The bible is the Word of God and its truths are in there for those who earnestly seek Him but He has that one ingredient required: faith. You are reasoning with your mind, once you have this experience and get to know God, everything in that book makes perfect sense. But then, He is a perfect God. God does have an enemy who hates Him. Satan. He is a deceiver and he will do all he can to deceive everyone. Dont discredit his power that easily. If you do, then he's got you. Its that simple. He hates what God loves, His creation.
01/22/2004 03:28:03 PM
gregling: with the very words you quote and refute, you have been given the nuggets of gold. I know you dont understand it now but with God's grace, maybe one day you will. God also gave me a mind and I plan on using it to the best of my God-given abilities. Why settle with the knowledge of gold, when wisdom is rubies? Why restrict your mind and your perception of God to the confines of a book? Are we that dry spiritually?
01/22/2004 03:25:09 PM
Deceived by whom? The world, the devil, I am deceived often because I lead with my heart. In other words, you distrust your own mind.
01/22/2004 03:22:17 PM
The Bible speaks for itself. This is an a priori argument. It's called circular reasoning. It's like saying... Scene: Dan: I wrote a book and I believe it is the absolute truth. Sheila: Prove it. I don't believe you. Dan: The book speaks for itself. Sheila: How does the book prove itself? Isn't that circular reasoning? Dan: It's absolute truth, and you are wrong. Sheila: The burdern of proof is on you, not me. You made the claim that your book has absolute truth. You can't say your book proves itself.
01/22/2004 03:17:37 PM
Greling? Do the basic rules of baseball change, are they easily understood? The rules of baseball are subject to a time and context. There's a popular phrase we use in baseball when we say that someone is acting a bit weird or doesn't have a clue: "Oh, [insert name]? He's out on left field!" Take that phrase and put it into a different situation with someone who doesn't understand the cultural context of baseball: [A man, Johnny, has just been called in after mistakenly throwing the ball over the fence instead of at homeplate out of anger and frustration.] Woman: Where's Johnny? Player: Oh, Johnny? He's out on left field! Woman: Well, then, I'll go looking for him! Player: No, he's not really on left-field. You don't get it, do you?
01/22/2004 03:06:12 PM
greling: I must read the Bible seriously and literally. The Bible teaches me through the literal and serious use of it's commandments. Then the Spirit gives me guidance through parables like the good Samaritan. I've had many good Samaritan oportunities and the Spirit helps me to recognize my opportunity to do good. Deceived by whom? The world, the devil, I am deceived often because I lead with my heart. Here's the tough one Matthew 20:12 "These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us" the two blind men the people tried to keep quiet, but Jesus blessed them anyway. These were tough questions given in a gentle nature; thanks greling. I know I can do better with more time. blessed <<
01/22/2004 02:33:35 PM
Greling? Do the basic rules of baseball change, are they easily understood? An umpire doesn't stand at first plate and say, ya know I was reading the manual here and I think, by my interpretation that this rule isnt right. If a player wants to head to third base first its ok. The Bible is Gods word. It is very clear and easy to understand. When He says adultry is wrong. It is wrong. When He says love your neighbor you are to love him not hate him. The Bible speaks for itself. This Holy book is the guide for all Christians to follow. It is specific about how to find God and how to be saved.
01/22/2004 09:48:21 AM
gregling: with the very words you quote and refute, you have been given the nuggets of gold. I know you dont understand it now but with God's grace, maybe one day you will.
01/21/2004 11:57:56 PM
(cont. from below) So you must read the Bible seriously and literally with the Holy Spirit to guide you. I believe the two are opposite. Those who claim to read the Bible literally are not taking it seriously, since the Bible uses a lot of parable, myth, analogy, and symbolism. When Christ calls Peter the "rock" upon which he will found his church, are we meant to take that literally? When the profit Isaiah says that God takes pleasure in seeing the children of Babylonians slaughtered, do we take that literally and as inspired words from God or seriously and as part of merely Isaiah's perception of God? It is the living word and will never read the same each time you read it with Spiritual guidance. This contradicts your prior conviction that the Bible and God never change. If something is constant, it would read the same everytime you read it. Otherwise, it is your interpretation that changes, not the document itself.
01/21/2004 11:57:43 PM
I personally need the Bible for guidance, lest I be deceived. Decieved by what or whom? Can you give me an answer without use of the Bible. Otherwise, what you are using is called circular reasoning (ie., the Bible proves itself). believe Jesus treated woman in a very fair way, they were His Most faithful followers. Yes, but the phrase in question was "all men are created equal". Women are another issue. We'll get to them. Let's get the men over with first. (cont. above)
01/20/2004 04:24:19 PM
The Romans 9:13 reference is taken out of the context of the writings of the OT prophet Malachi. Malachi was noting that the people considered to be Esau's descendants, the Edomites, have been devastated and their efforts to rebuild have been thwarted. By contrast, the descendants of Jacob, who have also known times of devastation and defeat have been able to rebuild again and again (right up to the present time I might note) and that this is a sign of God's graciousness toward them. Actually, there is nothing to indicate that God hated Esau himself. Indeed, he was blessed with good fortune and happiness despite being ripped off by his brother.
01/20/2004 04:16:45 PM
As for the "dogs" reference in which Jesus likens Gentiles to dogs, I quite agree that is was a mean thing to say. When you look at the context of the story you see that he was weary, frustrated, and had fled to a place where he thought he could get some rest and not be hassled by the crowds. In other words, he was tired and cranky...very human traits. If the Incarnation means anything, then Jesus had to be subject to those traits, too. But, when the woman in the story challenges him, he doesn't blow her off, he responds with respect and seems to get a second wind from him. He grants her request and praises her. His loving nature prevailed.
01/20/2004 04:11:57 PM
If pointing out that some folks act like unappreciative jerks is being hateful, then Jesus was being hateful when he used the "pearls before swine" metaphor. But my experience has been that all sorts of people can be unappreciative jerks and act like pigs from time to time. I may be very frustrated with them, but I can;t say that I hate them. Being angry with someone is not the same as hating them.
01/20/2004 03:03:00 PM
Please excuse the mis-spelling of adulteress and women.
01/20/2004 02:49:07 PM
I personally need the Bible for guidance, lest I be deceived. I believe Jesus treated woman in a very fair way, they were His Most faithful followers. He treated the adultress in a most revolutionary new way; "he who is without sin" (I believe that would be EQUAL) The Samaritan woman at the well: "How is it that you a Jew ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?" And He offers her a drink of living water. (equal) The Pharisees asks Jesus how can he eat with sinners; I'll tell you how because they are equal. So you must read the Bible seriously and literally with the Holy Spirit to guide you. It is the living word and will never read the same each time you read it with Spiritual guidance. blessed <
01/20/2004 02:38:27 PM
it doesn't mean such a notion is true Should be: it doesn't mean such a notion isn't true.
01/20/2004 02:23:04 PM
If the Bible never mentions "all men are created equal", it doesn't mean such a notion is true. Cknuck, you have to realize that in today's world, Christians derive their morality from other places than the Bible. The end of oppressing women and the end of slavery was not something that was derived from biblical teachings. I believe it came about when people realized that other human beings are created in the image of God too. I believe it came about when people started to see the image of God in the eyes of other people. God worked a remarkable thing in the world, and he didn't even have to use the Bible to do it. The Bible is not a book to be read in a cultural vacuum. You have to take into account when it was written and by whom it was written. Once again, take the Bible seriously, not literally.
01/20/2004 02:22:10 PM
teebug As I'm in Romans - here is some of God's hate. Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Didn't Jacob's descendents go on to populate Israel - while Esau's went on to follow Islam - so with "sin" being passed down - the love and hatred have a broader meaning? (Certainly there was not equality of birth for at least thousands of years with the Jews being God's chosen people?) And Jesus teaches almost universal hate. Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Jesus also demonstrated his hate in calling people "dogs" and "swine".
01/20/2004 02:10:20 PM
cknuck wrote that all men are created equal in the eyes of God. cknuck didn't provide any evidence from the Bible to support his hope - and as much as we would all like to be comforted by this notion - the Bible teaches otherwise. God rejects people belonging to specific groups based on race and illegitimacy. And the Bible also teaches that from the begining of time God has rejected people for reasons best known to him. If you are needing a just and loving God - you should find another one on which to hang your hopes and standards - the Bible simply won't support the God of Israel in being such a God. Surely babies who are born of God are not equal to those rejected by God? Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
01/20/2004 01:37:37 PM
I've been reading these posts, and finding them interesting, but got hooked on the exchanges between "fromoz" and "truthrevealed" until finally I cannot be quiet. "truthrevealed" said 3 things I can't reconcile, 1. that the bible is full of hate..where? quote me hate directly from the bible to prove your point and keep it in context please..2. Jesus was not such a nice guy by some of the things He said and did, like what? Direct quotes please, and again keep them in context..3. EVERYTHING in the bible is stolen from the pagans..I read your point about easter and christmas looked at from the greek mythology viewpoint, by the way, who wrote those myths, and approximately when? Have you read past the first few books of the Old Testament? What exactly in the New Testament is "stolen" from the pagans? I'm interested in the replies to these questions/requests. >
01/20/2004 01:24:01 PM
cknuck, That's a bit of a stretch. Most readings of the parable of the vineyard workers, which comes just after the rich man asks Jesus what he must do to get into heaven, understand it to mean that we should not expect the Lord to grant us grace based on the number of good acts we perform. Instead, the Lord grants us grace according to his own purposes. No doubt, we can be pretty confident from all Jesus said that God loves us equally. But what Jesus would make of the Declaration's political assertion, "All men are created equal" would make an interesting discussion.
01/20/2004 07:32:38 AM
greling: Long before the Declaration of Independence coin the saying "all men are created equal;" Jesus preached it in parables. He would have been harmed if He had not preached it in parables. Take a look at Matthew 20:1 to 16 open up your heart and meditate on the parable and you will see all men are created equal. blessed <<
01/20/2004 12:55:42 AM
Re: Post Below. Apologies to President Lincoln for fumbling the spelling of his first name. As a resident of the Land of Lincoln, I am mortified! Gee, I guess we're all a little less than purfict...er, perfect. I guess that's why humility and forgiveness are so important.
01/20/2004 12:53:15 AM
The man who presided over the abolition of slavery in America, Abrhama Lincoln, once described democracy in this way... "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a slavemaster. That is my definition of democracy. Any system which differs from this description, the the extent of the difference, is no democracy." If you hear echoes of the Golden Rule in that, it's no accident. And it was that principle which finally goaded Christians to take a stand against slavery. To be sure, slaveholders cited biblical passages allowing slavery to justify their actions...but they were hard pressed to explain how that applied to Jesus' standard for treating others. We're all still challeneged by that one, whether we're Christian, or not.
01/20/2004 12:48:51 AM
The New Testament passages do not "condone" slavery. That is, they do not provide a moral argument or endorsement for it. It's likely that Paul believed in the imminent return of Jesus and the cataclysmic end of the old order, of which slavery was a part. Slavery was so deeply ingrained in the Roman Empire, and virtually every other society on earth, that abolition seemed impossible any other way to people in that era. A measure of how deeply entrenched slavery is in the world is that it is still in the world, thought to a much lesser extent. I believe that most, if not all the societies which abolished this near universal evil first were predominantly Christian. And all nations with a Christian majority have abolished it.
01/19/2004 11:14:54 PM
Didn't the man who wrote "all men are created equal" have about a hundred slaves.
01/19/2004 10:42:15 PM
What verse is that? When did the Declaration of Independence get incorporated into the Bible?
01/19/2004 10:33:16 PM
All men are created equal, and in the image of God.
01/19/2004 10:23:15 PM
Is slavery a moral evil? If so, how do you know this? What is your moral guide?
01/19/2004 10:17:49 PM
Yes I agree, but I attribute the moral evil of slavery to man, not to the Bible. I totally agree with your first paragraph. I feel that the Bible also instructed slaves on obedient, so that they would live easier lives as slaves and not be found useless and killed by their masters. The slave's good would outweigh the master's evil. The Bible helps us to forgive, find peace in suffering and give out of poverty. blessed <<
01/19/2004 09:52:36 PM
So essentially, you agree that it is quite odd that there is no condemnation of slavery in the Bible but there are passages that say that one is allowed to have them, how to go about getting them, and instructions on how to beat them? You agree that the Bible serves less as an endorsement and more as a guidebook on how to keep slaves? Is keeping slaves a moral evil? If so, where do you base your morality, if not in scripture?
01/19/2004 09:42:45 PM
If you follow my posts you will find that I have already stated everything you have just said. That is the source of my frustration. And if you feel that being a descendant of slaves doesn't make you special, then please speak for yourself not me. I feel it gives me a special insight, and great family history. blessed <<
01/19/2004 08:23:14 PM
I am also a descendant of slaves. Just because you come from a generation of folks who were forced to pick cotton doesn't make you special or lend credibilty to your argument. Instead of addressing the slavery passages in the Bible, you brushed them off and started talking about your geneology. The Bible never explicitly states that it approves of slavery, but the fact that it gives instructions on how to treat slaves and says that people may rightfully have slaves says a lot. It is also important to not that NOWHERE is there, not even once, a single condemnation of slavery. Equality of the classes and races is a modern development. Racism and slavery are everthemore present in the majority of the Bible. To deny this is to deny the culture at the time.
01/19/2004 07:53:12 PM
fromoz: my 1/19/04 10:28:17a.m. post was in response to one of your slavery post and many others have resonded also and you continue to say the same thing over and over which brings one to the conclusion that you are set on repeating yourself. I am a descendant of slave families out of South Carolina, and Virgina and they made it through as Christians and because of Christians, the Bible was a great source of courage and hope for them. I myself came through segregation and prejudice of the forties, fifties, and sixties and once again the Bible brought us through. So when you take scriptures out of context and use them the way you do, it get's a little annoying
01/19/2004 06:26:58 PM
Celtic Lass Please let me assure you that I don't enjoy taking the most narrow minded and offensive interpretation of the Bible - I am in fact trying to understand. Your condemnation of me in place of an explaination of why the Bible is allowed to be interpreted instead of being taken literally only serves to further my confusion and distress. With interpretation people can invent their own religions and with the diversity of belief within Christianity that is exactly what happens and is the main reason that Christianity is tearing itself apart? The acceptance of slavery - or that one's spiritual life is more important than one's physical life is quite common in the Bible. Although when Jesus taught people to hate their physical lives - I can't imagine Jesus teaching slaves to be good slaves? From what I've experienced people only need to "interpret" the less socially acceptable parts of the Bible to hide the division, hatred, injustice and vengeance of God?
01/19/2004 05:23:20 PM
Firstly, I find the use of the term "African-American" to be offensive because it sets people apart. I firmly feel anyone born in the U.S. is American irregardless of their ancient heritage. Mrs. King should realize MLKjrs civil rights movement was for equality for all - else he was not honest in his speeches. While the transgressions against the community in which he was raised is what promoted his movement, I have found he had a much grander idea of equality then just his community. Martin Luther King Jr. is a role model for my mnistry along with Christ. Indeed, as a white man who has a picture of Martin on my wall gets more then a few comments. Equality does not begin with skin pigmentation nor its anicent culture but as Martin quite rightly put forth, a matter of humanity. Cont...
01/19/2004 05:23:00 PM
Cont... Therefore racial identification does more for racism then is does for equality. It is certainly the height of vainity to have pride in something far beyond the control of man. This is the philosophy of the KKK and this inappropriate prideful vainity does not changed just because it is used by those of a different color. Further, being "one drop of black blood makes one black" is still on the books of American law, people of color really do themselves a disservice by continuing to uphold such a racist veiwpoint as skin color sets one apart from the rest of the community. It ony does if one continues to perpatrate it. Rev themarirev.us
01/19/2004 05:13:21 PM
fromoz is like a form statement mechanically interjected at intermittent intervals. blessed <<
01/19/2004 02:43:16 PM
Fromoz, It seems you quite enjoy taking the most narrow minded and offensive interpretation of the Bible and Christianity - we are all very accustomed to the rantings of your religious bigotry. But today you have shown your ignorance about the history of slavery in America and the people throughout that history, and afterward during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Movement who worked diligently to change things. Many of those people were Christians and Jews who were inspired by God to take on the challenge of changing a social wrong. Your endless tirade is dead boring.
01/19/2004 01:32:14 PM
How can being against slavery be a true Christian value when slavery is condoned in the Bible? Titus 2:9 Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory,
01/19/2004 01:22:15 PM
Easter bunnies and Santa Claus, fertility festivals, and goddess are all as irrelevant as Constantine's approach to Christianity and true Christian values. Sorry. Blessed <<
01/19/2004 01:01:55 PM
Sorry - I wrote a response to someone, but it was alittle long, so I had to break it into four parts. Enjoy! I'm simply telling the truth. Gaining knowledge was mankind's original sin, according to Christianity. It's obviously because with knowledge, you can expose the truth - which doesn't bode well for religions that were built on crimes against humanity.
01/19/2004 12:59:47 PM
The original Easter had NOTHING to do with Jesus. It is NOT his holiday, nor is christmas. Ever wonder WHY we have the Easter Bunny and the Eggs? Because Easter is supposed to be a FERTILITY FESTIVAL! Also, "Estrus" is the word for when Rabbits and other animals go into heat and are more sexually active. This explains the whole Santa Claus thing. Obviously, Santa Claus has nothing to do with jesus. Often times I hear "We shouldn't be dealing with Santa Claus - this si Jesus' day" or "This holiday has lost it's Christian values" or "This isn't Santa's birthday, it's Jesus' birthday." WRONG. The holiday is NOT christian - it is STOLEN. Period.
01/19/2004 12:59:15 PM
As for Jesus' death, The REAL story behind Easter is as follows: the so-called Pagans - going back to Sumeria - celebrated a fertility festival every Spring - a festival which celebrated the Mother Goddess Ishtar, aka Astarte, known as Isis in Egypt. When christianity took over, they attempted to wipe out all opposing religions, and one popular way of doing so was to plunder old Pagan holidays, change the stories behind them, destroy pagan temples and build christian temples over the ruins, and FORCE the Pagans to convert, often under penalty of death. Emperor Constantine was famous for this - after Rome was taken over by monotheists. This story is no different. The fertility festival that the Pagans celebrated was turned into the "Easter" we know today. BUT THE NAME EASTER ITSELF IS DIRECTLY DERIVED FROM THE NAME OF THE GODDESS ISHTAR!
01/19/2004 12:58:51 PM
Oh, and by the way, Horus was born on December 25th. And all the customs of Christmas were stolen DIRECTLY from The Roman festival, Saturnalis, or the Saturnalia - a festival to celebrate the God Saturnus aka Saturn, known to the Greeks as Kronos. Saturnus aka Kronos is Zeus' father. DO SOME RESEARCH AND YOU FIND THAT IT IS ALL STOLEN.
01/19/2004 12:58:12 PM
cknuck says that Jesus was not stolen from Pagan religions. The two main parts of Jesus' story - his birth and his death - were stolen from Egypt, Greece/Rome, and Sumeria; especially his birth. Here's how: The Egyptian Goddess Isis was married to the God Osiris. They had a son named Horus. But here's the thing: By the time Horus was concieved, Osiris was already dead, making ISIS A VIRGIN MOTHER and HORUS A VIRGIN BIRTH. Horus was also born with a mission: to avenge his father's death and spread the words and teachings of his father Osiris, who had gone on to rule the Egyptian Afterlife, where the souls of pure individuals would reside after death. SOUND FAMILIAR?
01/19/2004 11:14:34 AM
If black people want to honor MLK today, thats fine, but I don't think it's right that I don't get my check in the mail because of a dead guy. Not fair at all.no mail means no check, no check means no food.
01/19/2004 10:28:16 AM
The Bible does not condone slavery, but it does give proper instruction on how slaves should act to endure slavery (a man made situation.) One of the Bible's greatest illustrations was of a young man named Joseph, sold into slavery, but being obedient to the laws of God and of those who enslaved him he became second in command of the whole nation in which he was inslaved. The Afro-American might have been enslaved from the misuse of the Bible but it was things of the Bible that brought them through the hardships of slavery, prejudice and segregation. Martin Luther King totally relied on the Bible to do the great work he did. So we can focus on the Bible and it is the scriptures but it is also the Holy Spirit who gives us understanding and strenght from the scriptures. blessed <<
01/19/2004 10:04:18 AM
fromoz: your criticisms of Christianity have always been far too focused on the Bible. Christianity is not its scriptures. Read Greling's post - there is another option (and it is the one most mainstream Christian denominations of modern times choose.) As for a claim that the Bible condones slavery, you have to be a little careful with that claim. What ancient Hebrews meant by "slave" bears little resemblence to how African Americans were treated, and it was a terrible misuse of the Bible for American slave owners to use any of that as precedent. Economic arrangements between people change over time, as we learn more about what human dignity requires of us. Do you think even Christians cannot be aware of this?
01/19/2004 01:39:32 AM
While some insist thatr Dr. King simply coundn't find inspiration for his non-violent quest for justice for all people, the simple fact is that he said he did and so does his widow. I believe these are people in a position to know. Deal with it. And while there were indeed non-Christians who made heroic contributions to the struggle, the simple fact is that it main foundation and source was the black church. It is also true that pagans engaged in slavery, war, and various barbarities which they claimed were blessed by their gods. I don't believe many of them would make such claims today...though I'm sure there are exceptions, just as there are for non-pagans. Perhaps instead of pointing wagging, self-righteous fingers at each other, we would do well to humbly admit we ALL need to make progress in loving each other.
01/18/2004 11:56:09 PM
I saw Mrs. King speak not too long ago in Akron, Ohio. Her speech was quite moving, and I have always been impressed with her grace and eloquence, but most importantly her tireless efforts to make his a just world in the spirit of her husband. Despite the petty sniping on this message board, I am proud that there are people like Corretta Scott King in this world, and any disagreements over theology should always take a backseat to actual results of labor. Lets quit proving our egos by argiung with each other and respond to the very real need for justice in the world!
01/18/2004 11:13:07 PM
Simply put, those who can't form arguments twist words and leave out details.
01/18/2004 11:11:34 PM
No absolute was made. A third option of people who actually think for themselves but take the Bible seriously and within its cultural, verbal, and intellectual contexts was made. The only thing absolute is your black-and-white perception of the universe, something typical of the moral development of 4 year olds.
01/18/2004 10:21:35 PM
So those who think for themselves will automatically disagree with what the Bible says. (#1 absolute) And those who don't think for themselves automatically agree with what the Bible says (#2 absolute) I could never commit myself to such absolutes.
01/18/2004 09:39:25 PM
I believe the hypocrisy is that most Christians take literally the parts of the Bible that show "God" as having positive properties - but insist on interpreting the parts of the Bible that show "God" as being divisive, hateful, vengeful and unjust? The Bible condones slavery and I can't see the "God" of the Bible doing anything to achieve equality for all people. From the evidence "God" doesn't answer prayer to any extent greater than can be accounted for by chance? I'm sure that all people benefit from various forms of "prayer" but the benefit comes from the practice and not from "God"?
01/18/2004 06:51:31 PM
I did nothing of the kind. I simply said that you illustrated two kinds of people: those who think for themselves and disagree with what the Bible says and those who don't think for themselves and presume they agree with everything the Bible says. There are those who have "blind faith" and those who are skeptics of everything. There is a third part (more rare). It is those who take the bible seriously and not literally and attempt to relate the Bible to its verbal, cultural and intellectual contexts.
01/18/2004 06:23:35 PM
greling thank you for helping me to prove my point. You have not dis-qualified my point, but you have expanded it by including other types of people who also "read the Bible, and actually think about what the Bible is saying." It's a simple point I am trying to relay to truthrevealed that people read the Bible and do it purposely and think about what it says. Thank you again. blessed <<
01/18/2004 02:24:43 PM
When love is not lost in the spiritual debate, we may move forward together respecting our different viewpoints. It might be that the greatest light maybe found in the smallest meeting place, or in silent prayer, or quiet meditation. I believe Dr. King gave his loving gift knowing his reward would be eternal and universal, with human rights, social justice, and caring for others as a common ground for all. This to me, is a magical expression of divine love and light and it shines in his awareness and understanding for all to see and feel always. His source not only the light he was given but also the light he helped to shine on others. May we all march on together in love to remember this wonderful man and his vision of peaceful positive change for all.
01/18/2004 11:15:03 AM
(cont. from below) The second set of people are what I call "dangerous sheep". These are the kind of people who are must more likely to end up in a cult-like situation. A trait typical of cults is esotericism, or, "hidden knowledge". Cults usually don't inform their membership of their true motivations until after they are already caught in their web.
01/18/2004 11:14:48 AM
But they study it real hard, some know the TEXT of the Bible better than many believers, but not the SPIRIT. Studying does not make you scholar. Application and/or interpretation of what you study does. Essentially what you're saying is that there are many people who have read the Bible and know it from cover to cover and disbelieve what it says. You are also saying that there are many other people who haven't read the Bible and follow in blind faith, not knowing what it is they are getting themselves into, but believing nonetheless. The first set of people are understandable. Atleast they have form logical conclusions, have assessed the Bible's value, and have decided whether or not they are willing to invest their time and faith in it. (cont. above)
01/18/2004 11:07:03 AM
People really read the Bible believe me. Not only believers but non-believers. Believers meditate on the word dwell in His presence with the word. Some believers commit their whole life to study of the Bible. Non-believers study it to tear it apart and tear it down disprove it. I think this distinction of "believers" and "non-believers" should be better phrase: "followers of blind faith" and "skeptics". Some people need a parent figure to guide them and have no sense of morality on their own. So, they look toward finding emotional security in a book. Other people have to courage to question. They figure out their morality on a daily basis. It's how they interact with others, with the Earth, and for some, with God. They do not need a strict set of "house rules" to live by. For them, treating other people the way you want to be treated is "common sense". Sadly, from the looks of it, it's not so common.
01/17/2004 11:14:19 PM
One of Dr. King's many influences was a man named Howard Thurman. Dr. King reportedly carried the book "Jesus & the Disinherited" around with him constantly. The book is an interesting look at how an oppressed people can gain strength from the teachings of Jesus. The book has also been described as a "blueprint for the civil rights movement".
01/17/2004 10:45:42 PM
truthrevealed said: I know I do - but the bible is FULL of hatred. Many people NEVER actually THINK about what the bible is actually SAYING. People really read the Bible believe me. Not only believers but non-believers. Believers meditate on the word dwell in His presence with the word. Some believers commit their whole life to study of the Bible. Non-believers study it to tear it apart and tear it down disprove it. But they study it real hard, some know the TEXT of the Bible better than many believers, but not the SPIRIT. I believe your statement is inacurate. And Jesus was not stolen from pagan religions. blessed <<
01/17/2004 10:17:06 PM
Right around the world people feel the presence of a higher power that most people represent by a "God" or "Gods" of some sort. Similarly right around the world most people feel the benefit of prayer or worship. The benefit comes not from "God" but from the actual practice? The number of times that prayers aren't answered indicates that "God" is either not listening or doesn't work in that way? When the Bible condones slavery - and where the God of the Bible is divisive and practices discrimination I can't see any benefit coming from that "God" - but I believe a lot of benefit came from the practice of prayer in accord with people's various religions and personal spiritual beliefs.
01/17/2004 09:38:21 PM
fromoz is right. Many, MANY activists were NOT Christian, or even particularly religious. It isn't that he doesn't appreciate Coretta Scott King or Dr. King - I know I do - but the bible is FULL of hatred. Many people NEVER actually THINK about what the bible is actually SAYING. They just read it and, because it is a religious document, they assume that it MUST be good for you. In reality, this is not the case. Jesus himself wasn't such a nice guy if you take a look at some of the things he's said and done - not to mention that pretty much EVERYTHING in the bible is stolen from Pagan religions - which is one reason why Polytheism is making such a HUGE underground comeback all over the world.
01/17/2004 09:34:08 PM
Sorry I mis-spelled vice-president
01/17/2004 09:26:42 PM
What a wonderful confirmation of the power of prayer, and non-violent response. I've heard what happen is not nearly as important as how you resond. But prayer is always a good opening response. I remember marching with Dr. King he changed my whole attitude about my approach to racial prejudice, I was commited to violent response, and I was good at it. But after listening to Dr. King and following him all over the country, I soon found myself first vise president of my local chapter of the N.A.A.C.P. There are a thousnd stories that came out of that journey. I will have a time of meditation this Monday. blessed <<
01/17/2004 08:47:26 PM
It is not everyone, just fromoz. Most of us here appreciate what Mrs. King wrote and take it to heart.
01/17/2004 05:24:40 PM
As I read the responses to the article Mrs. King wrote, I am utterly disgusted. Are any of you Theologians? God,our Lord and Savior, does NOT expect us to be Bible beaters. No, all HE wants is for us to believe in him, and love him with all your heart and soul. I think that these comments on "why believe in the Bible, when God didn't favor them. Are any of you God? I fell utter disgust and disdain for those of you, and you know who you are, for writing such scorching messages. LOL SMF
01/17/2004 04:56:30 PM
Here we see graphically demonstrated the problem with fine and just people aligning their values of equality, love and justice with a doctrine that also promotes hate, inequality and violence. The challenge of "God" as explained by Paul was not for slaves to try to escape - but for slaves to be good slaves - accepting their situations and working hard for their masters? We do not see in Jesus a story of "liberation". Jesus promoted almost universal hate and in speaking in parables to deceive and prevent many people from being saved we see yet another example of how "God" rejects certain people for reasons best known to him? Many brave people rejected the Bible in working to free the slaves and build a society emphasising justice and equality. Please don't diminish their sacrifices and contributions by writing that their struggles had anything to do with "God".
01/17/2004 04:10:44 PM
"The Bible condones slavery - and I can’t understand why slaves would turn to a doctrine that offered them no support to escape?" Interpretation, Individualism, and culture....might I suggest a book "Black Religion & Black Radicalism" by G. Wilmore. All Christians, and indeed all individuals, do not have this one neat sealed up view of doctrine. Slaves were able to see in the history and life of Jesus a story of liberation, of the last being first in the kingdom of God. It is never so simple as "the bible condones slavery, therefore slaves should be against it"....human beings are never that simple.
01/17/2004 02:59:39 PM
The Bible condones slavery - and I can’t understand why slaves would turn to a doctrine that offered them no support to escape? They saw the love of God. They also saw that other Christians didn't have the same literalist interpretation as the Southern Baptists did.
01/17/2004 02:58:04 PM
Coretta is not Martin, No, she is his wife. The woman who knew him more intimately and personally than any other human being did.
01/17/2004 02:51:04 PM
The Bible condones slavery - and I can’t understand why slaves would turn to a doctrine that offered them no support to escape? Once again it seems that people are using "God" as a hook on which to hang their spiritual feelings and their humanist standards - even though those standards are much higher in this case than those of the doctrine concerned. The Bible supports division and discrimination - and if Islam (for example) is against slavery and is for equality I can understand many people turning to that religion. There are many fine Christians - but I don't understand why they align themselves with a doctrine that is so abysmal. Sure their high ideals are supported by some of those in the Bible - but there are many things in that book (such as the acceptance of slavery) that I know are a concern for many Christians. Simply focussing on the love of Christ is not enough to escape the hatred, injustice and violence that will remain forever in the doctrine to haunt many Christians.
01/17/2004 02:37:20 PM
Coretta is not Martin,
01/17/2004 01:13:01 PM
I thank Coretta Scott in standing up for the civil rights of ALL. Her work in both the Hispanic and gay and lesbian communities is commendable. Injustice anywhere is surely a threat to peace everywhere.
01/16/2004 10:14:42 PM
What an extraordinary person Dr. King was!
01/16/2004 10:02:25 PM
Just a reminder that God name is not always mininterpreted in the mist of violence, some great social and political movements like the Amercian Civil Rights movement is one of those things, hopefully not forgotten.