Glenn Beck Versus Social Justice

A fellow Mormon explains why, contrary to Glenn Beck's advice, she won't leave her social justice church.

sbenard

02/18/2012 04:46:46 AM

Jana has selectively quoted President Monson in her article, but omitted the fact that he expressly stated that charity was the Church's mission, NOT the government's! This is a common mistake made by liberals in the Church, who pick and choose quotes, selectively, but dishonestly, editing them to fit their agenda, while omitting those that don't or those that provide context to those same quotes, rather than living by ALL the words of God. (see D&C 84:44) The Lord also said, “For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God” rather than picking and choosing the ones that they think advance their personal opinion – their “own god” (see above). Jana, from my more than half century as a member of the faith, I have seen some who take the same attitude as you. They usually end up leaving in disgust, just as Elder Oaks suggested later in is talk that I referenced above. Your arrogance, willingness to exercise "unrighteous dominion" (see D&C 121:37) by coercion, and desire to use government as the vehicle of charity, put you in the camp of needing repentance, not Glenn Beck!

sbenard

02/18/2012 04:45:21 AM

Ms. Riess is a relatively new member of the faith, so it is not surprising that she would make the error in this article of confusing the Church's role with the government's. In one of the few verses of scripture explicitly treating the subject of Church vs. State, the Pharisees sought to trap Jesus by asking him a baited question. The Lord "perceived their wickedness" and gave a terse reply that clearly establishes the difference between God's role, and the government's role, in our lives. He said, " Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Matt 22:21) Jana if charity isn't the role of Churches and charities any more, what is? If you wish for government to usurp God's role in our lives, what does that say about you? The Lord in the 1st section of the Doctrine & Covenants prefaced the ensuing revelations with a warning that in our age, there would be those who seek to make God in their own images, instead of reforming themselves to His. He said, "They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world..." (D&C 1:16) He then states that like Babylon of old, they will fall! This entire section carries this same theme. What happened, Jana, to "THY will be done" (Matt 6:10, Matt 26:42)? You seek instead to impose "MY will be done".

sbenard

02/18/2012 04:34:02 AM

I couldn't help noticing the tone of arrogance and contentiousness in this article. We all know where that tone comes from. It is not divine. I was recently studying my scriptures and ran across a talk by Dallin Oaks, an apostle of the Mormon faith, that had Jana Riess' name written all over it. In a talk called "How Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall", he spoke of those who have a heightened sense of social justice and seek to use compulsion to achieve it: "Some persons have a finely developed social conscience. They respond to social injustice and suffering with great concern, commitment, and generosity. This is surely a spiritual strength, something many of us need in greater measure. Yet persons who have this great quality need to be cautious that it not impel them to overstep other ultimate values. My social conscience should not cause me to coerce others to use their time or means to fulfill my objectives... We are commanded to love our neighbors, not to manipulate them, even for righteous purposes. In the same way, we should not feel alienated from our church or its leaders when they refrain from using the rhetoric of the social gospel or from allocating Church resources to purposes favored by others." This talk, and this quote, were written precisely for this situation and for people, who like Ms. Riess, wish to use their social conscience to force people rather than persuade them to do good!

madmaddiemac

04/23/2011 09:37:52 PM

I am also a member of the church of Jesus Christ and I cannot understand how having someone, no matter who they are or their opinion, leave this church would make you happy, regardless of what he has done, said, or his political standpoint. "the worth of souls is great in the sight of God" So why would you take pleasure in someone not receiving exaltation? You are not looking at this from an eternal perspective. I may only be 14, but I know that fighting amongst ourselves isn't going to get us anywhere.

Rebuttal

01/29/2011 10:13:43 PM

Dear Jana, You have made the same mistake that so many others have made. You have failed to understand the difference between "Social Justice" as a forced methodology of "stealing from the rich to give to the poor" as compared to the personal decision to "willingly" giving of your material wealth out of the goodness of your own heart. Using your own scriptural reference in the book of Mosiah, nowhere does it say the state should impose this rule as a legal requirement.... instead it is given as a desire that we "choose" to give. It's not charity if it's forced. The Church does not "force" you to pay tithing, fast offerings, etc. You can decide whether you want to, or not. Salvation is not earned through collective works, it is earned through individual works, regardless of what the collective does... Please don't blur the lines between what we should do because we are trying to live Christ-like lives and doing something that is good because if we don't we will be fined, imprisoned, or just feel guilty because others might think bad of us.

KirkConoleSanMarcosCA

12/17/2010 08:01:49 PM

Hi Jana, The next time you see a bunch of leftist students at your school demonstrating for "social justice" should you surmise that they are trying to get Mormons to take better care of their members? You're a University Professor so I'll give you extra time to formulate your answer - hopefully, it's a simple "duh, no." Many advocates of "social justice" are not advocating personal charity but the forced redistribution of wealth. That means having the government forcibly taking wealth from those who produce it (and their families) and redistributing it to those, who, by lack of skill or industry, have less than what's fair. When people talk about "Environmental justice" they are not advocating that Mormons clean up their trask after they pic-nic in the woods, are they? I would have to say that your being pleased should Glenn Beck ever leave your church strikes me as singulary uncharitable sentiment. Are you a Harry Reid type of Mormon?

LadyHarley

11/20/2010 11:54:57 AM

Cheers to you! I am not a Mormon, but have many wonderful friends who are. I have often sat amazed at the things this man spews and have often said a prayer for him that our Lord and Jesus Christ will help to heal his heart. I am simply a Christian, and was always taught to attempt to mold my life after that of Jesus. We are none of us perfect and we all make mistakes every day. To my mind, Jesus wants nothing more from us than for us to try to be good and do just that. He asks that we help our fellow man and do unto others as we would have others do unto us. Jesus would not be espousing hatred and fear against our fellow man, especially because of their race or their religion. He would have us help those around us when we can. Mr. Beck seems to despise these basic tenants of Christianity. I do pray for him and for my beloved America. God Bless You and God Bless Mr. Beck. God Bless the peoples of the earth of all faiths, skin colors and and nationalities. Love and Peace to all and thank you for the opportunity to state my opinion in a most respectful manner. Harley Royer

porlicue

11/16/2010 07:18:57 AM

What in heaven are you talking about? Is it possible you don't know that - like him or not - Glenn Beck was referring to churches that teach Marxist principles of income redistribution at the hands of the state, not the principles of generosity, kindness, charity, and voluntary giving? I don't think that anybody would accuse the conservative Mormon Church of being of that description - except perhaps you - but I don't think you are...I think you just have a misconception of what GB is talking about. If it's not a misconception, then you are being purposely misleading, which I doubt.

SpeckInMyEye2

11/09/2010 02:31:18 AM

@pat34lee Nail on the head, buddy. The key factor being agency. Who was it that said he would ensure that all mankind was saved? "Wherefore give me thine honor." -Lucifer The agency issue is basis for THE WAR in heaven. To serve God, it must be chosen individually, not mandated collectively, or otherwise. The true significance of goodness manifests only when it is chosen, especially when it is difficult. God cannot make us love Him, can he?. Even if He could, it wouldn’t mean quite as much, would it? The glory of our relationships, especially in marriage, is that our spouse has chosen to be with us. “You are going to love me, or else!” just doesn't have the same ring to it. It also takes glory from God in that we bring Him glory only we choose to look to Him, love Him, and serve Him, not by looking to a secular government for some form of salvation or by grudgingly subsidizing someone’s idea of it. Socialism, progressivism, Social Justice, etc, are only euphemisms for what are, in reality, evil counterfeits of the Gospel. There is no collective salvation outside of Christ. Most of all, remember that the state/government (or any representative of it) can never even claim to act on behalf of Christ’s church, or any other, so long as it wields power to enforce adherence to it's doctrine. History is replete with examples of tyranny that result from the state even attempting to become as “the church”, or vise versa (Inquisitions, Crusades, Jihad, Dictatorship of the Proletariat, the final solution, etc. ). This is what makes America so unique and wonderful. It is the first place on earth to have so much freedom, especially of religion. Our only true constraints are that our exercising of our rights cannot violate someone else’s in the process. I believe that the desire may come from a good place in most people. That is, to make laws to try and end all hunger, suffering, etc. The problem is that it is being done without the willing participation of all involved. To some, His involvement is superfluous and they do not see the wisdom of considering all of His true principles as a foundation. Neither do they understand the divinely inspired role of The Constitution as a chain to specifically bind down and limit government for our individual sakes. Our agency is that important. "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." --Thomas Jefferson Let's cut to the chase- How is the progressive eutopic vision of government any different than the proverbial Tower of Babel? Is it not an attempt to get to “heaven”, or rather, create it on earth without truly needing God? The founders “eutopic” vision of government is not of a paternal, all powerful government, but a nation of people who can self govern, because they love God, and CHOOSE to act like it. Life is not mere existence. Liberty is not licentiousness. Happiness is not a collective pursuit to be assigned or mandated

pat34lee

11/07/2010 09:21:17 PM

@Jana You obviously have no clue what Mr. Beck is talking about when he says 'social justice' or 'economic justice'. He is not talking about personal or denominational beliefs and duties. He is talking about transferring your personal duties to government entities. For example, using government power to take money from some people to give to others. People have the responsibility to care for the poor and needy. It is not the government's job. What you do for your belief or church is up to you. The government is only there to protect us and leave us to live as we see fit. It was not meant to be a charitable organization or social engineer.

Dadsboy

10/19/2010 10:33:45 PM

Jana, it would probably be good to remember that pre-judging people, for what I have found to be the case, is that most of the time we are wrong in our judgment. So please, leave that to those who are in authority to do so.

angel1942

10/14/2010 10:25:04 AM

It makes me sad to think that you and I , Glenn Beck belong to the same church,

gomw

09/01/2010 11:56:44 PM

After reading most of the comments (mostly by LDS), I am appalled at the lack of understanding demonstrated by the posts. There is so much misinformation demonstrated that it's impossible to address it all. Frankly, it is embarrassing! One thing that is predominant is misstatements of what social justice is. Go back to basics, go to the dictionary. You will find that Jana knows what it is. Also apparent is lack of appreciation, respect and knowledge of democracy. The foundation of democracy is that the minority must comply with the decisions of the majority. Our courts determine when these decisions are onerous. The final thing and the most alarming is that so many LDS think that the commandments set forth in our four basic works are voluntary. You are wrong, so very wrong. The punishment for failing to keep our scriptural commandments are far more severe than failure to obey civil laws. The worst thing government can do to a law violator is kill him. It is a thousand times more compelling to have eternal salvation withheld.

gomw

09/01/2010 11:35:45 PM

@Grasshopper. I don’t know if you’re Mormon or even Christian. You don’t talk like it. King Benjamin tells us in no uncertain terms that we can forget our personal salvation if we don’t take care of the poor. You may think that is voluntary but it isn’t. That’s a sentence much more severe than any civil government could mete out. You can refuse to pay your taxes just as you can refuse to help the poor; and the penalty is less severe! You knowledge of civics is even more lame than your knowledge of scriptures. Democracy is government of the people, by the people and for the people. That means if the majority says help the poor, you are bound by it….just as you are bound by the word of God. Your reading comprehension is in worse shape than your knowledge. Maybe that is why your knowledge is so limited. No where does Jana say, or imply, anything that can be interpreted to mean that individual salvation in dependent on group salvation. Nor is there any literature extant that says social justice implies collective salvation. Sounds like something Beck would say. I watch and listen to him all the time. I know what he says and what he believes. One last thing, your spelling and syntax is pre high school level.

spear1

09/01/2010 02:52:58 PM

Ms. Riess, it appears you do not understand what social justice means, at least as Mr. Beck defines it. I also refer you to the many, many comments from LDS church leaders about the evils of communism and socialism and welfare based upon incorrect principles.

Grasshopper121212

08/31/2010 04:33:47 AM

Jana, claim the scriptures teach social justice. You simply do not understand what social justice is and how it differs from the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Social justice requires by force to share our wealth and spread the money around. Not only that, social justice is what some ministers in Churches and Synogogues teach to promote socialism in government, by force. That, it is perfectly right for government to take from the rich and give to the poor because Christ said to feed the poor and that there be no poor or hungry amongs us. However, Christ taught that this "giving" is to be voluntary and has nothing to do with a government like the U.S. government. His government is not of this world, now is it? Social justice advocates also believe that one can only be saved if the group is saved. It's called collective salvation. If you truly have a grip on the doctrine of the Church, you know that we must work out our salvation individually. Whether I work my salvation out won't hold you back. But, social justice teaches this falacy. Beck teaches individual salvation that we are responsible for our own sins and repenting for them. Your entire ward doesn't have to all repent before you can be saved. We have to repent of our own sins, not Adam's transgressions. Beck teaches that none of us are forced to pay tithing and fast offerings. Social justice advocates believe we should be forced to do so. And, pay it to the government. Is that what you believe? Or, are you more thinking now you are more like Beck's thinking?

Heisashamed

08/29/2010 02:41:30 AM

After reading these comments, I could not help but wonder how Christ would view this conversation. What is in my heart is between me and my God. What is in the heart of those I help is between them and God. I wish that Beck and the commentors here would not attempt to use Christianity to defend their unwillingness to give to the needy. In our complex world there are many things that government and do that individuals and churches cannot do. It is very clear that Christ instructs us to give. He also instructs the recipient not to become dependent. He specifically does not make you the judge.

Finder

08/15/2010 11:07:35 AM

Dear Author, Have you actually listened to Glenn Beck lately? Maybe you have, maybe you haven't. It doesn't appear so from this humorous opinion piece. My impression is that you heard or read somewhere that Glenn Beck doesn't like social justice and immediately whisked to your keyboard to write your reaction. I didn't see a single Glenn Beck quote defining "social justice" anywhere. Is that your definition of justice? I can turn the tables and humorously say that this important omission "makes ya look kinda stupid". I don't feel very charitable saying it, though. Even humorously. I like how you backed your opinion with a quote (scripture), to help define your belief. I feel this opinion piece could have been stronger if you've given the same treatment to Glenn Beck, and allowed him a quote on social justice before you started in on him. And you don't even have to actually listen to him--you can just google it! I'm in a charitable mood, I'll help you out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589832,00.html Mar 23, 2010 "The term "social justice" has been completely perverted and hijacked by progressives. It doesn't mean simply "help the poor" to them. It does to some people, but not to radical progressives. And now, just for The New York Times and everyone else who thinks I hate poor people — I know your attention span is about 20 or 30 seconds, but try and pay attention — we'll set the record straight for you here on social justice. The kind I am talking about vs. the kind that they are talking about. Ready? "Here's my definition of social justice: Forced redistribution of wealth with a hostility toward individual property rights, under the guise of charity and/or justice..." "Churches that preach his type of 'social justice' are what I was referring to when I said 'run.' This kind of social justice being preached in Rev. Wright-style churches not only resembles what many of these radical progressive and socialist and communist groups preach today, it is what they preach: Government forcibly taking wealth and spreading it around — leveling the playing field, so there's no 'economic inequality.'" OK, a good foundation of fact has now been established for your piece. Have at it! It's your right. I don't agree with everything he says. But jumping to conclusions, not establishing concrete facts? I don't agree with that either. (Unfortunately, quoting him did seem to undermine your piece a bit.)

Garyhforliberty

08/10/2010 08:02:33 PM

I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints all of my life. I have been in many leadership positions and I can tell you that Jana Reiss does not know what she is talking about. The very foundation of our Church teaches that in our pre-existent life there was a war in Heaven fought over two plans. The first was the plan of our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ and it was the plan of AGENCY. The second was the plan of Lucifer and it was the plan of SOCIAL JUSTICE. Those who followed Jesus Christ were able to come to this Earth and those who followed Lucifer were cast out. You might want to rethink things there Ms. Reiss.

LaurieChristine

08/10/2010 01:51:40 PM

As to the references that Miss Riess included to back up her point. They in no way validate that the LDS church believes and practices “social justice”. The term “social justice” is a modern, and very (excuse my reference to the obvious) social term. It relates directly to the governments of society (rather than its people) to see to it that the needs of the people are met. Social justice gives the responsibility and power to the central government to redistribute wealth, so that the rich are no better off than the poor. That in a nutshell is social justice.

LaurieChristine

08/10/2010 01:51:28 PM

Charity on the other hand, is the responsibility of the individual and private organizations (such as churches) to see to it that the needs of the poor and afflicted are administered to. Administering to the poor is indeed a commandment of God, yet the full magnitude of this commandment varies for each and every individual. Just like the widow who gave her only mite to the church, depending on what one has, depends on what one should give. The only perfect judge of this is our Savior. On judgment day, he will know perfectly what we could or should have given more of, and not the government. If Miss Riess believes the LDS teachings of the war in heaven, she understands that Savior is NOT going to force us to keep the commandments. The Church does not force its members to pay fast offerings, but the Government does force the people to give their money so that it can be redistributed. Can she not see the difference? Social justice doesn’t even come close to charity.

LaurieChristine

08/10/2010 01:50:59 PM

Furthermore, if she knows anything of the intentions of our Founders (which the LDS church believes were inspired of God) she would know that they did not believe in social justice either. They declared that men were endowed with the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This idea had originated from John Locke’s writings in which he wrote life, liberty, and property. There is a very simple and obvious reason for why the Founders replaced “property” with the “pursuit of happiness”. They did not want people to interpret that as the right for land, money, food, etc from the government. I could go even further and prove that the government’s welfare programs actually hinder churches and individuals from giving more; however, I do not think Miss Riess is competent enough to grasp it. For the sake of length, I did not provide any sources for my information, but if anyone questions anything I said, I would be very happy to provide those things to them

LaurieChristine

08/10/2010 01:47:57 PM

Not only has Miss Riess committed numerous informal fallacies in her response (or should I say attack) towards Glenn Beck, but her understanding of “social justice” and what members of the LDS faith know to be “charity” are very misconstrued. In fact, I want to completely discard Glenn Beck from this argument, simply because her so called argument centers more on the doctrines of the LDS faith than it does on him. The only times that Miss Riess even pulls Beck into the argument, is when she is making personal insults to his character, lack of assistance to the poor, etc.

LaurieChristine

08/10/2010 01:47:33 PM

In response

Gumbeaux

08/06/2010 09:04:45 AM

Social Justice is nothing more than religious Communism. It is forced redistribution of wealth rather than charity. We are to give and to help others in their times of need. However, this is voluntary giving on an individual basis. Social Justice is forced taxation of one's labor to give to another the govt deems in need. Because Social Justice is religious Communism that also means that one's salvation is based upon community salvation too. So, no matter how you look at it Social Justice replaces God with govt.

JanetFlorida

07/27/2010 11:30:53 AM

This article was written by someone (Jana Riess) who is more CONVERTED to THEIR brand of POLITICS than they are CONVERTED to the BofM or the LDS Church!! I doubt that she prayerfully reads the Bof M to learn TRUE DOCTRINE but instead uses it to support her OWN corrupt doctrine! If Jana truly possessed Christian CHARITY---she would not wish another's ETERNAL WELFARE to wane in the balance. But instead, she would do GOOD to all men without the compulsion of others FORCING her. The first step for her learn to do go to others (without her being forced to) is to forsake this false doctrine of "SOCIAL JUSTICE" and replace it with the true doctrine---which doctrine is called CHARITY...the TRUE LOVE OF CHRIST!!! Charity never faileth......whereas the fraudulent "SOCIAL JUSTICE" perpetuated by corrupt politicians will ALWAYS fail. And fail it will!! Social Justice is a political concept--not a moral or Christian concept!!! Social Justice is about FORCE and COERCION.....accomplished through the tactics of Satan. The tactics that God employs allows us our freedom of choice and does not support the corruption of politicians who attempt to control the destiny of men. While Politicians tout Social Justice as the "benevolent way" Christ showed us the true path. The path of Charity is derived out of Love/freedom instead of Social Justice's Force/control. Charity is the antithesis of Social Justice. The BofM absolutely does NOT teach SOCIAL JUSTICE!!!! Anyone who believes that it does is in an apostate and lost state themselves!! Amazing that one "LDS member" would be so clueless and then top it off which such hatred against humanity thus exposing their ANTI-Christian attitude!! Like they say....MISERY loves company. Jana---you need to get a life and then change it into something that is meaningful and decent instead of being full of hate and compulsion!!

J_David_Williams

07/19/2010 11:16:38 PM

Aside from the snide and condescending arrogance of Sister Riess' essay, her analysis intellectually dishonest. Fortunately, our Church has among it's membership, very few who share her views. Progressives can be found in every denomination and LDS is no exception. That said, I would like to quote President Boyd K. Packer: "It is so easy to resist the teaching and resent the teacher. That has been the lot of the prophets and apostles from the beginning." (from an address given at a Brigham Young University Education Week devotional on 17 August 1999). Maybe it's time for Sister Riess to spend less time memorizing bible verse and more time learning what those verses actually mean. It's certainly sad to see these unmitigated falsifications leveled at Mr. Beck from a member of our Church.

mfackrell

07/17/2010 12:22:16 AM

Everything you have descirbed is charity. It is most certainly our responsibility to be charibable. However, Social Justice tells us that we must force our fellow man to be "good". This is completely contrary to the teachings of the LDS faith and any other christian faith. The battle in Heaven that occured between Jesus and Lucifer hinged on this very issue; Lucifer said let us force everyone to obey and jesus it should be up to the choice of the individual. We should certainly help the poor, we should certainly be charitable. That is entirely different than forcing someone else to do anything. That is the way of Satan and entirely against the teaching of the LDS faith.

Zed

07/15/2010 05:37:50 PM

I wonder, Jana, how you could have apparently listened to Glenn Beck much, and yet understood so little? I can only attribute this to utter ignorance or wilful misunderstanding. I am occasionally uncomfortable with Mr Beck's antagonism--even unbridled ridicule--of those he disagrees with. I frankly wish he would avoid that. However, to mischaracterize his most fundamental positions by quoting from King Benjamin shows a shallow understanding of the gospel indeed. If I may be personal here for a moment. One of the key elements of the truthfulness of the Prophet Joseph is related to his fairly detailed commentaries on the nature of the war in heaven. The competing idealogies he identified as central to the pre-earthly conflict are so applicable to the competing notions of governance today, that they are, well...nothing less than prophetic. To equate the free-willed giving of compassionate service with government-sponsored, government-coerced leveling of the playing field is completely and utterly ignoring agency--the central element of our existence! It is so key to God that it preempts all else. The need for a Savior, and the awful price that required, could have all been avoided were it not for God's total commitment to our freedom to act. When that is removed, there is option for neither victory nor defeat. And certainly no growth. Rather than quoting King Benjamin, you would do well to really study and understand the essential role of human will. Satan's plan was satanic because it was based on coercion. The outcome was laudible (all of us saved) but the process was fatally flawed. I'm afraid many are drawn to it today just as was the case the first time it was presented.

VoiceOfReason

07/13/2010 12:30:39 AM

I keep hearing about how the scriptures defend the concept of social justice, but I fail to read anywhere in any passage where a prophet or the Savior suggested that the government should be means by which express our charity. By using tax money, we take away the voluntary aspect of giving and create a counterfeit of real personal charity. It impoverishes the giver and the reciever at the same time by removing the humanity of it. As the scriptures do say, God loves a cheerful giver.

vback

06/01/2010 09:31:43 AM

God gave us freedom of choice Lucifer wanted to make the choices for us and the glory would be his. When we give we receive the blessing with social justice the choices are made for us and the glory is the governments not ours.

bandersen

04/28/2010 01:02:15 PM

Soc and others: Underpinning this desire to force others to be charitable is a selfishness. How come Jana and others don't show us a real spirit of charity by being the first to give to their government all of their income, or just ten percent more than what the rest of us give? How come? Well, I think it is obvious! They really aren't talking about themselves becoming more charitable; they just want others to be more charitable, mostly by coercion!

bandersen

04/28/2010 11:00:02 AM

Jana and everyone else that has been deluded into thinking that Jana's definition of 'social justice' has anything to do with Mormonism: It doesn't! Where in the gospel is there any element of force in regards to being a part of His gospel or church? What right does Citizen A have to tell Citizen B what he should do for Citizen C? The gospel of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with compulsion. Where in the constitution is there any duty for governmental charity? If there is no personal charity, then governmental charity only further erodes personal charity and excuses people from that fundamental aspect of the Gospel. The more anyone uses the power of the government to compel citizens to do something, the more they have ownership of your life. Compulsion has nothing to do with Christian faith. Christian faith is always an individual test. Words have meaning! Clear thinking must be based on truth. I find very little truth in giving up my agency and liberty to government!

greenly

04/15/2010 04:31:54 PM

Thank you so much for your timely comment. I wholeheartedly agree. I wish you would also comment about the level of incivility Mr. Beck demonstrates with such regularity on his show. It is "by their fruits" that we should know them. It is amazing to me that so many LDS even listen to him (and other media pundits) since we understand who fathers incivility and contention. It is amazing to me that so many LDS apparently listen more to Mr. Beck (and other media pundits) than to our actual Prophet. It is amazing to me that so many LDS are so willing to follow these "wolves in sheep's clothing," without so much as doing an ounce of fact-finding research from another source.

Lookbeyond

04/12/2010 12:36:07 PM

Social justice goes two ways! We must be responsible in helping and meeting the needs of those less fortunate, but we are not to do it because we are forced to do it. We do it because we have our free will and choice to do so. If we did it out of force, (satan's way) then we would not receive the blessings associated with our obedience to care for the poor and the needy; the down troddened etc. Collectively as a Church we are "first responders" throughout the world when catastrophies happen. Our Humanitarian services are un matched! Individually, we still have some challenges to meet....but as Glenn Beck says, "it must begin with us" We must make the choice to give or support.....we are not to be forced by the Church nor the government to meet our responsibilities in this regard. I just returned from one of the most phenominal events I have ever witnessed....a Glenn Beck Rally in Arizona! His point of focus was upon the individual person....his faith, his hope, and his charity! I wish all of America could hear his message and learn what we learned about our Founding Fathers and their faith; their hope; and their charity! I took my granddaughter out of school for a day so we could make the trip! The time and money spent was well worth the education she received as well as my own refreshing of American History. She learned more in that one day than a year of high school history would have ever taught her about the founding of this great Country of America!!! Social justice defined by government....is taking from the rich against their will and redistributing it to those who they deem need it....and it may not be those we would choose. Is it right to bail out private businesses in their bad business ethics or lack thereof? Do we bail out the home owner who was suckered in by government easy money to buy a home they really couldn't afford? Personal responsibility trumps all social justice as defined by the government! God gave us the rights to freedom and liberty.....and to tread upon those rights is tyranny and the foundation upon which this country will fail and find itself bankrupt!!

kinglamoni

04/11/2010 01:34:34 AM

Sister Riess, I hate to see my brothers and sister being ignorant on the issues that Brother Beck has made plain on his show. He is not against helping the poor as you seem think. He is against the government making this choice for us. How can the Lord bless me for something the government forces from me? It is no longer my choice. This is all a matter of free agency. The Social Justice Brother Beck has condemned on his show is where government redistributes the wealth by taking it from those who have and gives it to those who have not. And there are churches like the Rev. Jeremiah Wright who advocate this kind of Social Justice. People are getting there terms mixed up here. I would admonish you to stop jumping to conclusions when you hear this or that about someone until you really know what that someone really had to say on the matter. Not just what you heard he/she said. That kind of testimony is called hear-say evidence in a court of law and is inadmissible as evidence.

vhealy

04/06/2010 06:39:16 PM

To sbernard and other like-minded brethren: Judgmental much? Please review the basics of love, compassion, free agency, allowing others the right to voice their opinion, and resisting the temptation to condemn based on your own pride and ego. Many of us have a mote in our eye; beware of appointing yourself the one to pull it out. Voiced with the utmost love and charity

judithann

03/29/2010 08:13:11 PM

I would hope that you do some serious research on your "beliefs" regarding social justice and make a retraction that the Church does not belief in or practice "social justice". Your refer to "Mormon Social Justice" as that same thing that Glenn Beck is addressing on his show. You are absolutely WRONG. The previous comments have clarified the error on your comments. The right thing for you to do is to correct the record so that others do not take your representations as truth. The leaders of this church have faught long and hard to keep socialism out of America. I suppose you are one of those who believe that the United Order is the same as communism. Please do not allow your erroneous evaluation and comments remain. Judy La Mirada, California

sbenard

03/29/2010 05:27:41 PM

It is a HUGE leap to suggest that because we all have a moral obligation to share our means with the poor, that therefore we are justified in collectively CONFISCATING the property of others to achieve that goal. Only a tyrant would suggest that! Is that what Ms. Riess is suggesting here? That seems to be the implication!

sbenard

03/29/2010 05:22:33 PM

One things that collectivist apologists always neglect to mention is that the Lord condemned the poor who seek to redistribute the wealth of others: D&C 56:17 17 Wo unto you poor men... whose bellies are not satisfied, and whose hands are not stayed from LAYING HOLD UPON OHER MEN"S GOODS, whose eyes are full of greediness, and who will not labor with your own hands! (emphasis mine). Whether one uses one's physical hands, or their voting hands, to God, the stealing is the same. Some people fail to recognize that stealing with one's vote while hiding behind a shameless politician is still STEALING! This idea was taught in 2008 by two Mormon apostles in condemning entitlement programs: Robert D. Hales said: “Being provident providers, we must keep that most basic commandment, “Thou shalt not covet” (Exodus 20:17). Our world is fraught with feelings of entitlement.” He also stated that WE are responsible to provide for ourselves and our families. He did NOT say the government!. Dallin H. Oaks said: “The worldly aspiration of our day is to get something for nothing. The ancient evil of greed shows its face in the assertion of entitlement: I am entitled to this or that because of who I am—a son or a daughter, a CITIZEN (emphasis mine), a victim, or a member of some other group. Entitlement is generally selfish. It demands much, and it gives little or nothing. Its very concept causes us to seek to elevate ourselves above those around us. This separates us from the divine, evenhanded standard of reward that when anyone obtains any blessing from God, it is by obedience to the law on which that blessing is predicated (see D&C 130:21)"

sbenard

03/29/2010 04:50:48 PM

An attitude of dependence by Latter-day Saints upon church initiatives or financing is hard to combat in many countries because it is so pervasive in the government system and social welfare environment. But dependence ... in temporal things cannot be encouraged or even acquiesced in because it is counter to the Lord's way. His way teaches us to support the Lord's church, not to expect to be supported by it. He teaches us to look on the gospel as a command for us to help others, not as a COMMAND FOR OTHERS TO HELP US (emphasis mine). Dallin H. Oaks, The Lord's Way, p.124

sbenard

03/29/2010 04:47:31 PM

Note that in the Lord's kingdom, ALL charitable contributions are VOLUNTARY! Why do proponents of government-run “social justice” programs always promote programs that are COMPULSORY!

sbenard

03/29/2010 04:46:22 PM

In 1977 LDS Church President Ezra Taft Benson explained the basic principles governing whether Latter-day Saints should accept government assistance: "Occasionally, we receive questions as to the propriety of Church members receiving government assistance instead of Church assistance. Let me restate what is a fundamental principle. Individuals, to the extent possible, should provide for their own needs. Where the individual is unable to care for himself, his family should assist. Where the family is not able to provide, the Church should render assistance, NOT the government."

sbenard

03/29/2010 02:36:24 PM

Reverend Wallis, Pres. Obama's new preacher, is a self-proclaimed Marxist. He has said so himself! Funny that Obama's choices of pastors are ALL Marxists! You have to search long and hard to find Christian pastors who are Marxists! The Lord warned about those who use their authority to exercise unrighteous dominion over others, saying: "...When we undertake.. to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves." (D&C 121: 37) This is not only a principle of priesthood, but of all authority. Some make the mistake of thinking that this concept only applies to priesthood governance. It is also a principle of righteous government. (see v. 37, which mentions BOTH priesthood AND authority) The Lord also told us the principles under which righteous authority, including GOVERNMENT, can be exercised and maintained: "No power or influence can or ought to be maintained... only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; "By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile--" D&C 121:41-42 It is by these principles that God has created and administered over worlds without number. He does NOT use compulsion or confiscation -- EVER! Those who do will never be permitted to have "authority" after this world (see v. 37). Persuade the rich of their duty to assist the poor. But don't use compulsion, or you've crossed into the Devil's territory! There is NO room for FORCED confiscation and redistribution of wealth in God's kingdom or Christ's gospel! Those who do are running counter to the counsel of prophets and the principles of Christ's gospel!

sbenard

03/29/2010 01:30:18 PM

The real question is NOT whether we should assist the poor. Both Glenn Beck, Jana Riess, and nearly all Christians (including Mormons) recognize the moral imperative of doing so. Glenn would undoubtedly agree with nearly everything in this editorial, except Jana's suggestion that he leave the faith. The REAL questions are these: 1) What is the proper role of government? Is it is the role of government to redistribute the wealth? 2) Does COMPULSORY confiscation of private property for social purposes constitute unrighteous dominion? Section 134 of the D&C explicitly names control and ownership of private property, without government interference, as one of the inalienable rights God has given to man. These questiosns have been clearly answered by both ancient and modern prophets. Our own canon indicates that ANYTHING that goes beyond the original intent of the Constitution "cometh of evil". (see D&C 98:5-7). All of these collectivist philosophies come from the same source that had the original idea in the pre-mortal world of saving everyone -- by FORCE! It says a great deal about the very "nature" of those who feel justified in COERCIVE confiscation of private property for social purposes. It is a self label of "tyrant" and it is they whom the Lord warned us that it is in their natures to exercise "unrighteous dominion". They must NEVER be elected to any position of authority because they are neither wise nor honest (see D&C 98:10).

sbenard

03/29/2010 01:11:55 PM

SOC, you have no comprehension of Mormonism OR Glenn Beck. Your statements about him are so utterly incorrect as to be libelous! They are complete smears and your will be held accountable for bearing false witness! The Church has NOT distanced itself from what Beck has, except a bland generic statement that individual members speak for themselves, not the Church. The same statement appears in the front of the book of EVERY apostle. I've been a life-long member of the Church and a student of its doctrines since I was a teenager. The concept of coerced redistribution of wealth is incompatible with our Constitution, personal freedom, or the Gospel of Christ. There is NO scriptural precedent for GOVERNMENT confiscation of private property, nor any from any apostle or prophet. NOT ONE! Government is NOT a mere community of "what we do together". Government is FORCE: “Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.” – George Washington You make the grave error of thinking that government is some benign grandpa that just wants to help and take care of everyone. It isn't. Most Americans have lived in freedom, peace and prosperity for so long that they take their freedom and prosperity for granted. Most of humanity has lived in tyranny and terror from their governments throughout human history. If was for just such collectivist-minded people that the Lord warned us to be wary: "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. " Coerced confiscation of property for social policies are a perfect example of this unrighteous mindset!

psactionman

03/29/2010 11:47:39 AM

Glenn Beck never said he disagrees with government helping the poor. He disagrees with the government TAKING from the rich to give to the poor. Taking, by force. Glenn Beck's definition of Social Justice is forced redistribution of wealth. By force, there is nothing in the Gospel of Jesus Christ about forcing people to give charity. 1 Corinthians 13:3 "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." Forced charity is not charity. If I choose to pay my tithing, choose to give to the poor, and choose to extend a hand of assistance to a person or people in trouble it benefits me, it is a good thing. But if someone takes my money and gives it to someone else that is stealing. For even if all my money goes to the poor, and I do nothing about it that is not charity so it profiteth me NOTHING. This is not Glenn Beck's words, these are Paul's words. No, Social Justice is not Pharaoh storing food for the famine to come, it would be Pharaoh taking food from the rich people in Egypt to give to the poor. You also asked if that would have been possible without God. The answer is no. But that it Glenn's point. He told us on his program, which you clearly don't watch which gives you absolutely no right to comment since you do not hear these things first hand, that we should help the poor, and if your church preaches that God is first, and that these things should be done by the individual because God has said so, not because the government said so. If your Bishop told you that if you did not pay your tithing you could not take the sacrament, or would lose your membership in the church that would be perverting the Gospel, and yes you SHOULD NOT go to a church, even an LDS church, that perverts the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Remember, the whole war in Heaven, the great rebellion by Lucifer was fought over FORCING PEOPLE TO DO THE RIGHT THING! Force was rejected by God and 1/3 of our brothers and sisters were banished for trying to put into life the exact thing that we are seeing today. Forced redistribution of wealth is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. THAT is what Glenn Beck was saying. To the original author, King Benjamin told us to "impart of your substance to the poor" not "we as the government of the people are going to take your wealth for the benefit of the poor". If you actually watched Glenn Beck's show and didn't just get your information from youtube you would know that he told us to give to the poor, to donate to charity, to follow the gospel of Jesus Christ, and to avoid systems which work to force us and everyone else to do the right thing.

soc

03/25/2010 12:21:14 PM

I realize that some Mormons make a distinction between individuals serving the poor, or the church seeking out the poor -- and government aiding the poor. Glenn Beck argues that government should not asist the poor -- that social justice in this sense is morally wrong. However, even in the Bible you have Joseph assigned by the pharaoh to store food during the seven years of plenty in order to feed the people during the seven years of faminie. Do you really think this would have been possible if left up to individuals? Is not this also a form of social justice? "Government" is another way of saying "what we do together." What about public education, roads, national parks? These all serve the social good of society. Poverty destroys not only individual lives, but families, and the entire fabric of society. Government, based on a system of representation and elected leaders should be able to tax and allocate funds to benefit those citizens that are maginalized or disabled or elderly, or children, or basically in need. When the citizens are educated, healthy, and productive -- we al benefit. Sometimes this requires support beyond what individuals or churches will do. The real problem with Glenn Beck is that he is a "showman". His purpose is entirely self-promotion, and that is not and never will be at the center of Christianity. He is hateful, disrespectfuly, and promotes discord, distrust, and destruction. I believe the LDS Church has and will continue to distance itself from such shenanigans. It is hard to believe we are members of the same church. I hope folks realize he DOES NOT represent Mormons or members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He only represents himself.

IoneMorgaine

03/24/2010 08:55:14 PM

Damn, girl, I'm proud to know you!

jcsb

03/24/2010 03:12:50 PM

I would expect a Mormon who is a co-author on a book about Mormonism to have a solid understanding of the principles of agency and coercion. The war on heaven was about these principles and the battle continues today. Satan wanted to force obedience. King Benjamin was not for forced redistribution and having a welfare state, he was for voluntary charity and service. The latter diminish when government is expected to take care of all of our needs from the cradle to the grave. Consecration is and the United Order was voluntary, not forced to take care of the poor. Much of the "social justice" of today expects government to force this "justice" through redistribution and other means. Please consider what the First Presidency said in the closing session of General Conference in April 1942: "We again warn our people in America of the constantly increasing threat against our inspired Constitution and our free institutions set up under it. The same political tenets and philosophies that have brought war and terror in other parts of the world are at work amongst us in America. The proponents thereof are seeking to undermine our own form of government and to set up instead one of the forms of dictatorships now flourishing in other lands. These revolutionists are using a technique that is as old as the human race—a fervid but false solicitude for the unfortunate over whom they thus gain mastery and then enslave them. "They suit their approaches to the particular group they seek to deceive. Among the Latter-day Saints they speak of their philosophy and their plans under it as an ushering in of the United Order. Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to the United Order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which Satan always devises of the gospel plan. Communism debases the individual and makes him the enslaved tool of the state to whom he must look for sustenance and religion; the United Order exalts the individual, leaves him his property, "according to his family, according to his circumstances and his wants and needs," (D&C 51:3) and provides a system by which he helps care for his less fortunate brethren; the United Order leaves every man free to choose his own religion as his conscience directs. Communism destroys man's God-given free agency; the United Order glorifies it. Latter-day Saints can not be true to their faith and lend aid, encouragement, or sympathy to any of these false philosophies. They will prove snares to their feet."

bishopm

03/20/2010 10:19:10 PM

One thing we all need to keep mindful of, is that those many of us do not associate (e.g. Democrats, Obama, etc) ourselves with are no the antithesis of good. I find that many of my fellow members are quick to assume our government is on the path to tyranny much because they view the "winners" of the previous election as the antithesis of our beliefs. This is not true. It is the segmenting of politics that tries to draw strong contrasts in small degrees of separation. Too much is focused on the branding and counter-branding of politics.We too easily acclaim credit to those we associate with and cast aspersions on to those we do not. That is why it is important to work harder to understand those we disagree with. Perhaps we learn something about ourselves and offer an opportunity to help more in the process.

stmugrad

03/19/2010 11:40:28 PM

Hello all, Many in my Catholic church were confused and hurt by Beck's comments. Our church family has worked hard in sharing the compassion of Jesus to least among us. Over the past 40 years we have stood shoulder to shoulder with our community. We have raised tens of thousands of dollars for local food bank, our parish founded and continues to run the local Boy Scout troop, and we have NEVER turned anyone away without some kind of help. While I can understand if people like Beck chafe at a government social safety net, I cannot understand why he would seek to tear at our small but committed parish. Many took what he said very personally and told me they now change the channel when he comes on. As people of faith we should come together to do God work on Earth. Lets not let politicians and their squawking clique further divide us. Let us do good work!

nuttley54

03/18/2010 07:17:09 PM

Place a copy of The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich A. Hayek next to your copy of the Book of Mormon. Although Hayek's book was written back in the early 1940s, it is recommended reading today, especially the parts about individual liberty, economic freedom, and the evils of collectivist political movements. I believe the book's major premises agree with the doctrines presented in the Book of Mormon.

muirsky

03/18/2010 12:13:06 PM

I believe we live in the greatest country on earth because of the opportunities we have to share our opinions and beliefs. All to often because of our own ignorance we read some headlines and think we know the intent of those who are sharing their thoughts and opinions. Obviously Jana gave a knee jerk reaction to what she thought was Glenn Beck's intent. I am greatful for people like Beck who are willing to raise a flag when there are obvious missrepresentations in our government. I don't believe we should ever let gov't have the power to determine who the givers should be and who the receivers will be. I think charitable giving should rest with the people and the gov't should stick with defending our country and defending our rites that we have been given from God.

sbenard

03/18/2010 12:06:45 PM

The whole concept of forced charity be government, often referred to as "social justice" by progressives and collectivists, violate TWO of the ten commandments: "The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If `Thou shalt not covet' and `Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free." -- John Adams (A Defense of the American Constitutions, 1787) The reason God forbade coveting is because it lead to unrighteous stealing later. Whether we use our hands to steal, or our votes to steal by hiding behind a shameless politician, it is still stealing. God is not deceived by this sham. John Adams understood it. How surprising that some LDS people in our modern day have missed this very basic lesson!

sbenard

03/18/2010 11:53:24 AM

As I have continued to ponder upon this situation over the past several hours, it has occurred to me that the real issue here has nothing to do with whether or not we should care for the poor. Glenn Beck has stated over and over again that he agrees with the obligation to do this. So do it, and so does Jana! The real issues related to this controversy are two-fold: 1) Does righteous government has the right to COMPEL people to provide for the poor through forced confiscation of private property? Is it the proper role of government to do this? All LDS doctrine, scriptural and prophetic, is in total harmony that government does NOT have this right. That constitutes demonic "unrighteous dominion"! Jana, you didn't address the question at all, but it was the question Glenn Beck WAS addressing! 2) The other issue here is that Jana has allowed herself to be exploited by the radical left because she hasn't done her due diligence to find out what Glenn Beck has really said, or what his views really are. She clearly hasn't LISTENED to Beck or she wouldn't have been caught in such a trap. Radical progressives have baited her through the mainstream media with a straw man of Glenn Beck -- a FALSE one. They misrepresented what he has said, created a fake -- a straw man -- and Jana believed those falsehoods about Glenn. She then attacked that fake -- that straw man. As a person with an academic background, she should have known better. She should have LISTENED to Glenn Beck rather than merely reading edited reports from other people. These people have smeared and borne false witness against Beck, baiting Riess and others with the false image of what he said. Jana, you have allowed yourself to be manipulated because you didn't do your homework. You should never have been caught in such a trap, Jana. Worse yet, you wasted the your time -- and ours -- writing a rebuttal to a straw man -- a FALSE Glenn Beck. And worse still, you published that rebuttal to that straw man for all the world to see. This reflects on your scholarship and indicates shoddy research and a willingness to be "used and abused" by radicals with an agenda seeking to destroy our Constitution. You were too eager and willing to be a pawn in a broader battle, and they suckered you BIG TIME!

sbenard

03/18/2010 02:19:52 AM

You shouldn't be representing Mormons here or anywhere else, since you're such a poor example of not only its precepts, but its principles! Your book must truly be Mormonism for "dummies", because only dummies would believe anything you write!

sbenard

03/18/2010 02:19:21 AM

Did you also miss the message that the group that eventually destroyed the entire Nephite civilization were the secret combinations that are strikingly similar to the progressives, marxists, socialists, and all their collectivist cousins that occupy the White House today? Their objective was to obtain complete control of the government so that they could take advantage of the "spoils" of government. Did you also miss the message of how destructive were the king-men elitists like those ruling the United States today? Or do you consider yourself one of these because of your Columbia pedigree? It says a lot about your misguided motives that you attended one of the most liberal universities in the United States for your religious instruction. Perhaps it would be helpful for you to spend more time studying the words of prophets rather than listening to liberal lectures! It says a lot about your that your would write such a commentary without doing your due diligence, Jana. You have written this piece without any knowledge of what Glenn actually said or believes! What does that say about you? It also says a lot about you, Jana, than Glenn, that your are so ready and willing to endorse the idea of forced confiscation of personal property at the point of a government gun! Do you also endorse the idea that "the end justifies the means"? That is reminiscent of Section 121 that speaks about that majority whose nature and disposition is such that they are willing to exercise "unrighteous dominion" upon their fellow terrestrial citizens! That would tell us much about your source of inspiration, since we know who proposed that "alternative" plan in pre-mortality!

sbenard

03/18/2010 02:16:24 AM

Jana, you have not only misrepresented Glenn Beck's ideas, but you have incorrectly implied that the Church's teachings condone forced, compulsory confiscation of personal property at the point of a government gun in the name of "social justice". You have ignored the Church's canon from D&C 134 that explicitly and repeatedly mentions the God-endowed right of all to own and control their own private property. Did you miss that, Jana? There isn't a single instance, contrary to your heretical implications, of government-imposed, compulsory confiscation of property by ANY righteous government ANYWHERE in ANY LDS canon. Not ONE! I challenge you to find one. (I'll save you some time; it doesn't exist!) The worst villains of the Book of Mormon were those who sought to use government to enforce "social justice", or did your study of LDS scripture miss that, too? The ruler of the Gadianton Robbers threatened to take the property of the Nephites unless they willingly gave it up. Sounds quite Obamaesque, doesn't it? He even told them that if they would relinquish their property, the Robbers would "share" that property with them. They offered to share the property to stole with the victims! Harry Reid couldn't have done any better! Did you miss that section too, Jana?

sbenard

03/18/2010 02:15:47 AM

The words "social justice" do not appear a single time in ANY Mormon canon or any ancient prophets -- ANYWHERE! I checked while writing this commentary. Did you miss that, Jana? Why didn't you do your homework, Jana? I also searched for that term in a database of the preachings of modern prophets, too. The ONLY instance of that term is when a prophet said, "In this retreat from freedom the voices of protesting citizens have been drowned by raucous riots of intolerance and abuse from those who led the retreat and their millions of gullible youth, who are marching merrily to their doom, carrying banners on which are emblazoned such intriguing and misapplied labels as social justice, equality, reform. patriotism, social welfare." (Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1963, Third Day-Morning Meeting, p.112) Did you miss this too, Jana? Of did you just choose to ignore it because the Lord's prophets don't support your ideas of "social justice" at the point of a government gun? When the rich young man came to Christ in Matt 19 and asked what he needed to do to obtain eternal life, Jesus told him to go and sell his property and use it to bless and serve the poor. But what is just as instructive is what he did NOT do. He did NOT seek to compel the young man. He did NOT call Roman soldiers to confiscate the young man's property. He allowed him to choose, and that's why the young man sorrowed. God allows us to choose so that He can hold us accountable. Satan chooses good causes and then uses compulsion to enforce them. He doesn't care about accountability. Did you miss that too, Jana?

sbenard

03/18/2010 02:14:57 AM

In fact, I question whether you even ARE a member of the Church (despite your self-elevating bio and braggadocio), since your understanding of it is so grossly errant of its doctrines! Your article reads more like priestcraft to me, and you're not even a priest! If you had actually LISTENED to Beck instead of going off half-cocked and totally wrong, you would have understood that he was speaking of the Marxist code words for "social justice" as taught by Progressives throughout the 20th Century. If you had taken time to STUDY religious history, you would know that the words "social justice" have been used by collectivists for decades. Glenn NEVER implied what you have suggested he did. You have attempted to put words in his mouth that he didn't say. You owe him an apology in a public way! Your writing here is literal slander! Glenn Beck takes very good care of his employees. He provides them with not only the most expensive healthcare plan in the state of New York. He also is the ONLY employer in the entire state of New York to provide such a cadillac plan for his employees. Can you say the same? Have you put your money where your mouth is? I have spent much of the past year studying progressivism, mostly from the writings of American progressives themselves. Their teachings are incompatible with the Constitution, personal freedom, or the gospel of Jesus Christ. The progressive philosophies and code words are the same ones used by the worst butchers in human history! They are based upon compulsion and the philosophy that "the end justifies the means". That is precisely what Satan proposed in the pre-mortal world! Did you miss that too, Jana?

sbenard

03/18/2010 02:09:29 AM

Jana, First, let me say that I came to read this with an attitude that I would employ diplomatic language in my comment. However, your language was so un-Christian towards Glenn Beck, that I decided you deserved to be hit with both guns blazing. Suggesting that Glenn Beck exit the Church or that he isn't welcome there is the most contemptible language I've read in a long time by someone who claims to be a member of the Church. That is absolutely despicable, Jana! You should be excommunicated! Who are YOU to decide who should and shouldn't be a member of the faith? Such an implied prejudice is usurpation of authority which you neither have, nor ever will! I am shocked that anyone who purports to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints could so grossly misrepresent not only Glenn Beck, but the doctrines of the Church. You shouldn't be writing ANY books under the banner of Mormonism. You have NO authority to speak for the Church! I am a life-long member, student of the gospel, and a High Priest. At least I have SOME priesthood authority; you have NONE!) Glenn Beck has a much better understanding than you do of its doctrine. You should be ashamed of yourself. I certainly am! It is YOU who needs to rapidly run for the exits of the Church, NOT Glenn. What a despicably shameful and unchristian thing for you to say! You have, in a single article, committed a gross act of bearing false witness not once, but TWICE -- against both Glenn and the Church! You are a wolf in sheep's clothing!

dbelnap

03/17/2010 02:08:29 PM

Jana 0 Glenn Beck 1 I must echo what has already been said to show how you, Jana, clearly miss the point about what Christ and our church leaders are admonishing us to do. We are commanded by Christ to give to the poor as you stated, however, we CHOOSE to do so rather than having our money taken from us and spent by a government which is too large and corrupt. If you recall, it was SATAN'S plan to FORCE us to be good and that way we'd all get back to heaven. The GOVERNMENT is FORCING us to give up our money which is Satan's way, not the Lord's way. The government workers involved in collecting the funds fill their pockets first and then give what's left to the poor and needy. When we GIVE to the church, we can have faith that the money we give is actually getting to those in need in a much greater percentage than what the government would give. Instead of admonishing Glenn Beck to pay greater attention to the gospel teachings, it is you that must reevaluate your understanding of the gospel fundamentals.

LDSLinda

03/17/2010 06:45:31 AM

I think Glenn Beck is right on. I do not believe that "social justice" would ever work in this imperfect world. and that's what Glenn is talking about, how the GOVERNMENT would make sure that everyone gets their (un)fair share. The problem is, that the rich have financial advisers to help them hide their money from Uncle Sam. And the poor don't pay taxes because they don't have money. The ones who will get screwed are people like us, the middle class. We are getting by, but barely. The more money we earn (raises, etc.), the higher our tax bracket, until at some point, it might be more profiable for us to just quit our jobs, live in a rundown house and get government assistence. Course, by that time, there is no more money because what happens is, that when the congress gets a tax hike, the FIRST thing they do is vote themselves a nice healthy pay raise. Then, with what's left over, they use to fund thier porkbelly projects, useless things that cost a lot of money, so that they can get re-elected. Who's gonna be the dictator? Obama? Pelosi?

utjames

03/17/2010 03:46:52 AM

Interesting comments. I have read the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon, as well as other LDS church books and can't seem to find where the government is supposed to run health care, welfare, etc etc... Do we REALLY want to have health care and welfare services as efficient as, oh, say the Post Office? I totally agree that we are a church that believes in welfare. However, we believe that we should give, not that the government should take. Is there not a difference between "giving" to the poor and having the government "take?" I don't agree with Glenn Beck on everything; however, he seems to at least understand the proper role of government - which is what he was talking about. Humanitarian Aid program of the church is 100% different than taxing everyone and giving the money to the United Nations for "welfare projects." Is it better for you to give 10% tithing or would you rather have a 10% tax collected for the church... Which do you think fits in the Plan of Salvation and allows people free agency - the choice to help people as we are commanded or the choice to be damned and be selfish? If we all are taxed and wealth redistributed as the social justicers want, that sounds more like the devils plan. Yes, it may be true that we are commanded to help the poor. But how does my choice to follow the commandment and give to church and/or other welfare charities compare to being forced to pay higher taxes. The money may be the same, but I am only following the commandment if I give. The commandment is to give - not to have taken.

jkimdan22

03/17/2010 01:44:03 AM

The difference between the social justice that you refer to, Jana, and the social justice that Glen is talking about is that one is a forced redistribution of wealth, while the other is voluntary. The LDS church teaches that we must help the poor through our individual free agency. Jesus Christ, as far as I can tell was also talking to the individual, not to the government. You obviously do not watch his program enough to understand what he is talking about.

wwick82

03/16/2010 04:05:21 PM

And as for you Jana, if Beck really did apostatize and leave the church, where is your compassion and forgiveness? In reading your article, it appears you have based it solely on the Jim Wallis's blog post, that of the New York Times, and/or TIME were all clearly took his rant completely out of context by isolating just a few of his statements. You obviously haven't been regularly listening to his shows to hear him clarify and explain his viewpoints regarding the statements you and others have vilified in your blogs. Did you even listen to his response along with Scott Baker's comments about his own interview with Jim Wallis and how Wallis all but confessed to deliberately bearing false witness against Beck in the effort to push the social agenda he is favoring? Are you on the "I hate Beck" bandwagon where everyone else on it automatically dismisses everything he says on his shows as flat out lies and evil just because it came out of his mouth? I don't doubt Beck could be wrong with misunderstandings and incomplete facts on many of topics he discusses on his shows, but I do respect him as a fellow human and someone who I believe to be deeply patriotic and doing his best to use the resources he has in an effort to defend the foundations of our country and preserve the freedoms we still have in the way he understands them to be. I think he does raise some valid questions and points from time to time that all would be wise to their homework and research on as he constantly encourages. I think that gives him some credibility when he encourages his listeners to do their own homework, develop their own opinions, and even present him with any facts they find that are contrary to anything he has said so he can own up to any mistakes he makes. Perhaps you need to step out and do your homework by listening to Beck's commentary in its entirety before being so quick to post a blog entry like you have that absolutely vilifies Beck as if he was really speaking out against his own faith. Now, if Beck is indeed wrong about the motives for the current social agendas being proposed and pushed through Washington now, it is fine for you to point out what you think those flaws are and try to correct them, but please do it in a compassionate manner. The manner you have done it here does not represent the true spirit of charity any more than that with which you have so criticized Beck of. I don't recall Christ giving a parable about any shepherds doing a little dance when one of their sheep strayed from the fold. I don't think a true Christian would never do a little dance when one of their own strayed from the fold either. If any good is to come out of all this (namely the Times article and Beck's response to it), it will be the stimulation of interest for some to actually pick up a copy of the Book of Mormon to see if it really is a "tract on social justice". Hopefully they are then enlivened by the testimony of Christ therein and can gain more insights into the principles of TRUE charity as exemplified by the account of Kind Benjamin you have referenced from within its pages. Perhaps too, they will read on to Moroni's warning in Ether and that they too will "awake to [the] awful situation" that may very well be permeating our government and do all they can to help prevent it.

wwick82

03/16/2010 04:04:54 PM

All you people in favor of big government need to keep in mind that bigger government costs more money. Those who think that "social justice" as being interpreted by those in government now are simply trying to follow good Christian principles or follow a form of the law of consecration are fooling themselves. In order for something like the law of consecration to work, everyone needs to covenant to live by it out of their own free will and choice, not be forced into it against their free will. Also, there would be no idleness among those living the law of consecration and it would be directed by the Lord himself, not by corrupt politicians. We are invited to give generously with the spirit of love and are able to choose the amount we feel is generous, not dictated to and threatened with jail time or other penalties for not paying a fixed amount for the sake of "charity". What are your thoughts on all the counsel given in the scriptures and by modern prophets to not go into excessive debt and pay off the debts we to put ourselves in as quickly as possible so that we may not be in bondage to our creditors? The more debt we accumulate, the more freedom we lose. As others here have pointed out and given insight to, I believe the history and events of the Book of Mormon is indeed a parallel to our day and contains many warnings for those who are privileged to live in America. It was right before the resurrected Christ appeared to the Nephite people here in America that their government had been infiltrated by the Gadianton robbers via their secret combinations where they sought to exert their socialist and communist principles and eventually overthrew the government seeking to enslave the people and exert their will over them. How can you be so blind to not see that very threat happening with our own government today? How can we be so sure that these same secret combinations aren't at play now, trying to infiltrate our goverment, and force new policies and programs disguised by good Christian principles, but are really influenced by Satan seeking to spend our country into oblivion while putting all of its citizens under bondage? I think it would be wise to keep in mind the counsel and warning given by Moroni in Ether 8:22-26 regarding any nation that upholds, supports, and promotes such secret combinations. The statement released by the church regarding members of the church in politics other places of high profile has equal application to Harry Reid, Mitt Romney, and all matter of other LDS celebrities and politicians. It was to re-affirm to both members and the greater public that none of these high profile members are authorized to speak on behalf of the whole church. Don't paint it out to be a statement specifically made with their minds only on Glenn Beck. It even has application to Jana herself here.

wwick82

03/16/2010 04:04:26 PM

All you people in favor of big government need to keep in mind that bigger government costs more money. Those who think that "social justice" as being interpreted by those in government now are simply trying to follow good Christian principles or follow a form of the law of consecration are fooling themselves. In order for something like the law of consecration to work, everyone needs to covenant to live by it out of their own free will and choice, not be forced into it against their free will. Also, there would be no idleness among those living the law of consecration and it would be directed by the Lord himself, not by corrupt politicians. We are invited to give generously with the spirit of love and are able to choose the amount we feel is generous, not dictated to and threatened with jail time or other penalties for not paying a fixed amount for the sake of "charity". What are your thoughts on all the counsel given in the scriptures and by modern prophets to not go into excessive debt and pay off the debts we to put ourselves in as quickly as possible so that we may not be in bondage to our creditors? The more debt we accumulate, the more freedom we lose. As others here have pointed out and given insight to, I believe the history and events of the Book of Mormon is indeed a parallel to our day and contains many warnings for those who are privileged to live in America. It was right before the resurrected Christ appeared to the Nephite people here in America that their government had been infiltrated by the Gadianton robbers via their secret combinations where they sought to exert their socialist and communist principles and eventually overthrew the government seeking to enslave the people and exert their will over them. How can you be so blind to not see that very threat happening with our own government today? How can we be so sure that these same secret combinations aren't at play now, trying to infiltrate our goverment, and force new policies and programs disguised by good Christian principles, but are really influenced by Satan seeking to spend our country into oblivion while putting all of its citizens under bondage? I think it would be wise to keep in mind the counsel and warning given by Moroni in Ether 8:22-26 regarding any nation that upholds, supports, and promotes such secret combinations. The statement released by the church regarding members of the church in politics other places of high profile has equal application to Harry Reid, Mitt Romney, and all matter of other LDS celebrities and politicians. It was to re-affirm to both members and the greater public that none of these high profile members are authorized to speak on behalf of the whole church. Don't paint it out to be a statement specifically made with their minds only on Glenn Beck. It even has application to Jana herself here.

wwick82

03/16/2010 04:03:13 PM

KenKyle, Where is anyone saying they want absolutely no government in the land? I think everyone here recognizes that government is indeed a "benefit to man". What many have a problem with is when the government is no longer moderate and becomes an excess. All things should be done in moderation right? Of course government is necessary for maintaining things like the military and our civil defense, for building and maintaining infrastructure such as highways and airports. We do need moderate and reasonable taxation to fund these kinds of things. I support some levels of socialism in our country, such as in education. And I for one am not entirely against government aid to the poor. I think programs like WIC, etc. are just fine. I even just got a tax refund and EIC at the expense of others who did have tax liabilities. We already have so much in place already to redistribute richer people's wealth to those who aren't yet so wealthy. What most people have a problem with, I think, is that Pres. Obama and his colleagues, and now many churches in the land are wanting the government to grow to an unsustainable and tyrannic level. Government is good and beneficial to man if it is the right kind of government, a government based around the principles in our constitution. Germany and Russia each had governments over the last century, but clearly, they were the wrong kind of governments. Too much government leads to tyranny. Too little government leads to anarchy. What we need is to ensure and preserve the balance of power between the citizens and the government authorities. But it would seem that many in office today are now trying to disrupt the balance of power and tip it further and further to their side. Government has failed time and time again when it comes to budgeting the charity programs they've already instituted. Social Security being one of the biggest right now. They need to fix that among capping many other programs that are leading our country into such an excessive debt before I will further support any other programs in the name of charity. All this talk about wanting "cap and trade" but what about capping their debt ceiling once and for all and take action to start reducing that and get that all paid off before rolling out any other programs that require more government spending???

greenwoodgal

03/16/2010 02:48:00 PM

Jana-- There is a fundamental difference between voluntary charity and compulsion to charity. All tithes and offerings are completely voluntary. Even in the law on consecration there is private ownership and contributing according to the dictates of one's conscience. When the people got lazy and did not want to govern themselves they cried for the institution of "kingman" remember??? That didn't work out too well.

compassionatedick

03/16/2010 01:04:55 PM

kenkyle, Your comments aren't very civil...Perhaps Glenn Beck has started an important conversation about the vast difference between compassion and "social justice". The word justice implies that a wrong or crime has been committed. To apply "justice" to a nation or particular group of people is to have convicted them all of wrong doing. It has never been the policy of the LDS Church to convict anybody much less an entire group of people. Recall the Second Article of Faith: We believe that men will be punished for their own sins,and not for Adam’s transgression.

kenkyle

03/16/2010 10:16:45 AM

Note to bloggers re. Glenn Beck: the clowns are much better over at Ringling Bros. The Lord is not stupid. When He revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith that "governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man", the Lord knew that to be effective, laws would have to be enforced. This elementary point seems to have escaped some on this blog. I recommend that all carefully study the First Presidency's statement on political extremism: http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/the-mormon-ethic-of-civility

politicalmommy

03/16/2010 09:25:24 AM

Jana: You are absolutely entitled to a differing opinion, and for anyone to suggest that anyone is "less Mormon" because they disagree is kidding themselves. However, opinions not based on fact can be dangerous. Whenever I see an article written about someone's statements, that does not include the full statement, I highly doubt the credibility and validity of their argument. So although I applaud your effort in pointing out the humanitarian and charitable aspect of our Church, it was done at the misplaced expense of someone making a completely accurate point. You stated that you would dance a little jig if Glenn Beck leaves our Church. In making that snarky remark you not only shed light on your underlying motive in writing this article (criticize someone you politically disagree with, not comment on the issue at hand), but revealed you are guilty of the "un-Christ-like" heart you accuse Glenn Beck of having. To find joy in someone else's misery in walking away from what we believe is their salvation, could be argued the "greater sin". But I digress. The factual discrepency I spoke of is the fact that your entire argument was based on the idea that Glenn Beck believes that he, and other conservatives who support him, should leave any Church that believes in "social justice" or charity organized through your Church. That is not what he explained, believes, or was his point. He has discussed at great length, efforts by federally funded community organizational groups (which are almost without exception very liberal) have become involved to such a point with Churchs that they even have their own offices IN the Churchs. They are doing this to politically influence the attendees. Beck has ranted on countless occassions how it is not the governments role to be charitable or to force charity. It is the place of Churchs, or individuals to encourage charity, independent of any governmental influence. In other words, if you had the ENTIRE background, context or facts, you would know that he agrees with you that it is in the Churches charity should be taught and practiced. Not forced upon you through the government. He was warning you to look into your own Churches and make sure that you do not have the federally funded community organizers setting up office in your Church. Living in Oklahoma, there have been several Churches that have made the local news for having liberal organizations trying to do so. And there were people running from those churches. When Mormons are under a constant microscope in the arena of political and social commentary, I would have hoped you could have based your article in fact and had an honest and healthy debate rather than jump to conclusion on the easy band-wagon of "I hate Glenn Beck". Sarah Edmond, OK

compassionatedick

03/16/2010 02:04:33 AM

Jana, I'm disheartened with the political tone your comments take on regaurding a fellow Latter Day Saint. Perhaps if you took the time to try and understand what it is that Bro Beck is trying to say you might come to a different conclusion. Simply put, he is warning people to avoid any Church that would support the Government overriding the free agency of a person to act compassionately. Remember that it was Satan who wanted to take away our freedom to choose and he's definitely behind any government that would attempt to do the same... Also please revisit D&C 56:17, clearly addressing the entitlement culture of Government dependence. 17 Wo unto you poor men, whose hearts are not broken, whose spirits are not contrite, and whose bellies are not satisfied, and whose hands are not stayed from laying hold upon other men’s goods, whose eyes are full of greediness, and who will not labor with your own hands!

jennyrkh

03/16/2010 01:18:05 AM

I think Glenn Beck is reading his Book of Mormon, it is a bit presumptuous of you to say that he isn't. How about this? 3 Nephi 3:6-7 of The Book of Mormon 6.Therefore I write unto you, desiring that ye would yield up unto this my people, your cities, your lands, and your possessions, rather than that they should visit you with the sword and that destruction should come upon you. 7. Or in other words, yield yourselves up unto us, and unite with us and become acquainted with our secret works, and become our brethren that ye may be like unto us- not our slaves, but our brethren and partners of all our substance. Written by Giddianhi, the Gadianton Robber Leader to Lachoneus the Chief Judge over a free Nephite people. Sounds like social justice.....or a some of that fantastic communism. Maybe you should review your Book of Mormon. Here are some other books to help: Mormonism VS. Communism by John J Stewart foreward by Ezra Taft Benson and The Threat To Our Freedom by Ezra Taft Benson It is about charity that is forced from us VS. charity that we freely give. Isn't that the real test? Glenn Beck is against things being forced, and "social justice" is a phrase now being used by communist to forward their cause. It sounds pretty and right, but it is the opposite of the Plan of Salvation. This kind of social justice was Satan's plan in the premortal realm. It is getting into the churches because it is what Christ would have us do, by our own free will, but it actualy results in a loss of power of individuals to make their own choices about how their hard earned money is spent. Do not be deceived. It is the same plan that took the 1/3. Satan has not changed his methods. America is a blessed nation because the people are free, and that freedom opens the pathway for the receiving of the gospel.

kenkyle

03/15/2010 09:49:30 PM

So, these rich guys are flying back East in a private jet from a GOP meeting in Texas. One says to the group, "we really need to get rid of these federal government paid air traffic controllers -- that's socialism!" Likely scenario? Yeah, right! Even conservatives love government programs that protect them and provide the good things of life. Why were there more deaths from the earthquake in Haiti than from the much stronger quake in Chile? There were government regulations on building standards in Chile but not in Haiti. Government regulations and programs backed up by the power of the state provide personal freedom. The rich love them if they bless their own lives -- but heaven forbid that tax dollars be spent to help some marginalized people who can't afford health insurance. Mormon wrote, "Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not". When Mormon wrote this about secret combinations, it's almost as if he were describing the Glenn Beckers -- the extremist elements today in the American Republican Party and in the libertarian movement. So-called conservatives in the U.S may wave the flag, but when it comes to freedom they put the blind eye to the telescope. As LDS Scholar Hugh Nibley explained, "What is it that gives ordinary businessmen a power greater than that of the government? It is the capacity for giving or withholding money -- nothing else in the world. This is the weapon that Satan chose from the beginning to place him and his plans beyond politics, and it has worked with deadly effect. There is only one thing in man's world that can offer any check on the unlimited power of money and that is government. That is why money always accuses government of trying to destroy free agency, when the great enslaver has always been money itself."

kenkyle

03/15/2010 09:49:27 PM

So, these rich guys are flying back East in a private jet from a GOP meeting in Texas. One says to the group, "we really need to get rid of these federal government paid air traffic controllers -- that's socialism!" Likely scenario? Yeah, right! Even conservatives love government programs that protect them and provide the good things of life. Why were there more deaths from the earthquake in Haiti than from the much stronger quake in Chile? There were government regulations on building standards in Chile but not in Haiti. Government regulations and programs backed up by the power of the state provide personal freedom. The rich love them if they bless their own lives -- but heaven forbid that tax dollars be spent to help some marginalized people who can't afford health insurance. Mormon wrote, "Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not". When Mormon wrote this about secret combinations, it's almost as if he were describing the Glenn Beckers -- the extremist elements today in the American Republican Party and in the libertarian movement. So-called conservatives in the U.S may wave the flag, but when it comes to freedom they put the blind eye to the telescope. As LDS Scholar Hugh Nibley explained, "What is it that gives ordinary businessmen a power greater than that of the government? It is the capacity for giving or withholding money -- nothing else in the world. This is the weapon that Satan chose from the beginning to place him and his plans beyond politics, and it has worked with deadly effect. There is only one thing in man's world that can offer any check on the unlimited power of money and that is government. That is why money always accuses government of trying to destroy free agency, when the great enslaver has always been money itself."

ibex2

03/15/2010 09:04:25 PM

Hi Jana, I'm a fellow Mormon. You and I have met a couple times. I hold you in high regard. That's why I was disappointed in the mean-spirited tone of your article. What disappointed me most was this statement : "The good news for me is that, if you follow your own advice, you must soon be exiting The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, of which we are both members. And if that happens, I will dance a little jig." Say it ain't so Jana. You'd really like to see Glenn leave our faith community because you and he don't see eye to eye politically? That's really sad. Like you, I don't agree with everything that Mr. Beck says, but I think we owe it to him as a human being, and as a fellow Mormon, to treat him with love and respect, even if we don't agree with everything he says. That's the Christ-like thing to do. There's got to be room within Mormonism for differences of opinion. We can agree to disagree without saying hurtful things like, "I'd be happy if you left our church." As you point out, Mormons definitely do believe in social justice when defined the way.you define it and the way most religions define it (taking care of those who need help). To his credit, Glenn Beck did clarify publicly that he does does indeed support helping the less fortunate, but that he doesn't embrace governments that FORCE people to help the less fortunate through a mandatory redistribution of wealth. That's a distinction your personal political interpretations may or may not allow you to make. But it's certainly not a good reason to wish Glenn would leave our Mormon family. I really hope you don't feel that way. Otherwise I may have misjudged your character. Best, Allan

kjt

03/15/2010 06:22:51 PM

Jana, I for one heard something completely different when I heard Glen Beck. 'Like most Americans, Glenn strongly supports and believes in 'social justice' when it is defined as 'good Christian charity,' he said. 'Glenn strongly opposes when Rev. Wright and other leaders use 'social justice' as a euphemism for their real intention -- redistribution of wealth." I agree with Glenn completely. I think that is why he feels so at home in the LDS faith, because we don't mix politics at the pulpit. It is all over in the Bible and The Book of Mormon, i.e. Gaddianton Robbers who infiltrated the Government and tried to sway people into giving their all to them. Today we have the same situation, but disquised by a "Religious" pulpit with a very evil agenda. Keep talking Glen, a lot of us listen and agree. You are very refreshing.

eldermsfar

03/15/2010 03:10:03 PM

Jana, Everything you have said here is true from a religious standpoint. I agree with you that governments should willingly join in giving on a moral basis. Glenn Beck does not speak for the LDS Church, or for any church. We need to think for ourselves, and not just follow the winds of someone's opinions. Jana, I hope you have spent the time to listen to Glenn's programs. You should know that he says to do your own homework and go straight to the source. It is obvious you have done some homework, but in my view you are confusing LDS doctrine with Glenn's opinion. Glenn is saying the following: that social justice is defined as when a church mandates that you give to charity as a law--as something you HAVE to do. He also points out that it is a code word--a euphemism for the term "redistribution of wealth." You cited the scripture from Mosiah on that--if you read the same address from King Benjamin you would see very clearly the amount of labor he put in support himself and his people, that he had few if any taxes, and that he set an example for his people of giving willingly. Look at the government of King Noah in that same book--it pointed out the heavy tax burdens he placed on his people...and that did not turn out so well now, did it? If I am FORCED by SECULAR law to give to charity, or I am told I will go to jail if I do not give to a government-sponsored charity that my Church supports, is it not a violation of my freedom of worship to leave that Church if I feel they are trying to get me to do something I choose not to? Is that not a violation of the separation of church and state, which provides us our freedom to worship according to the dictates of our own conscience? Does that not go against our inspired documents (Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc.) and what the inspired Founding Fathers Washington, Franklin, Paine, and others believed? Is it morally right for a church to tell me who to vote for, what political positions to have, or to use religious facilities for campaigning? Is it exercising common sense to just pay my church the money and not learn for myself where it is going and how it is being used, so that I know my money is not being wasted or stolen? I know of nowhere in the scriptures or the words of the prophets that the LDS Church advocates social justice or anything of the sort. As far as we know, Mr. Beck has not left the Church. If he and his family have not, it is obvious to me he feels the Church is not pursuing or teaching such dogma. It should also say something about what he really meant by it, and help clarify what places understand the correct spiritual principles behind giving of your own free will and choice. Social justice is a doctrine of the devil, and we have to be careful not to confuse willful charitable giving from a humanitarian basis with what conspiring people in government, education, the media, and other facets of our culture are doing--they are attempting to redefine God, marriage, family, science, history, and giving. So in essence, Jana, I am in some degree of consensus with you on these topics. But I think you are misguided in the broader context and need to cite other examples to complete your analysis of Mr. Beck's commentary.

kenkyle

03/15/2010 10:18:26 AM

After Glenn Beck became even more infamous (after he left CNN to join FOX) the First Presidency of the LDS Church issued a statement stating that ". . .the Church views with concern the politics of fear and rhetorical extremism that render civil discussion impossible. As the Church begins to rise in prominence and its members achieve a higher public profile, a diversity of voices and opinions naturally follows. Some may even mistake these voices as being authoritative or representative of the Church...The Church hopes that our democratic system will facilitate kinder and more reasoned exchanges among fellow Americans than we are now seeing. " But Beck is an American phenomenon. He does not reflect the views of Latter-day Saints. It is doubtful that most Latter-day Saints have ever heard of Glenn Beck, much less have the opportunity to watch him perform. The LDS Church is organized in 176 nations and territories. In each of these nations Latter-day Saints are a minority of the overall Church membership -- and that includes in the United States.

dachande

03/15/2010 02:00:43 AM

Jana, You went to school for eight years and that's the best you can come up with? Like Beck or not, "social justice" has nothing to do with charity. Christ preached charity, hence, render unto Caesar that which are Caesars and unto God that which are God's. The President attended a church that preaches Marxism. Some of these organizations believe the government should be a tool of "imposing charity" to make things equal. The LDS church in no way form or fashion teaches that nor do the Scriptures. Pull your head out of your fifth point of contact and come back to reality. PERSONAL CHARITY = GOOD GOVERNMENT IMPOSED "CHARITY" = TYRANNY The church welfare system has nothing to do with "social justice." It has to do with loving your neighbor and helping your neighbor in a time of need. I choose or choose not to tithe or make fast offerings or make donations to charities. I do not choose for the government to keep stealing my money so it can give my money away in order to create dependent voters and keep people in bondage. But all of these "enlightened" people like Jana want us to believe that the government taking our money and forcing equality through poverty is the same thing as me willingly giving my money to someone in a time of need. Hey Jana, you might want to see about getting a refund on your Ph. D., it obviously hasn't helped your dogmatic perception of reality since you're just another useful idiot. Joe

Heretic_for_Christ

03/14/2010 05:59:51 PM

IF Beck had said to reject any POLITICIAN who called for government programs aimed at social justice, then the comments posted here defending him would at least be relevant -- hateful and misguided, but relevant. Beck's defenders say that he was arguing against government programs. No he wasn't. He was arguing against churches that preach social justice -- that is, churches who see their mission in line with the teachings of Jesus. Beck is best seen not as a Mormon or any kind of Christian or any kind of religious individual, but as a psychiatric outpatient who has gone off his medications. Either that, or a cynical charlatan of Academy-Award-level acting ability.

Do_unto_others

03/14/2010 11:43:17 AM

Moultosh, "We all need help the poor and needy as individuals... NOT THE GOVERNMENT DOING IT FOR US" Except Beck is urging INDIVIDUALS torun fromChurches that advocate for social justice. Why is it that this fool (Beck) is so defended? He is an outrageous bearer of false witness, not to mention he's not a very nice person.

geezer1935

03/13/2010 08:40:59 PM

I could not have said it better. For all of you Beck defenders, some of us find him to be ignorant about history and religion, including his own. He is an embarrassment. Good for you, Jana from another Mormon who wishes he would just go away.

moultosh

03/13/2010 03:29:39 PM

Jana... You need to take your own advice "Have You Read the Book of Mormon Lately?" Your assumptions have done to you what they do to most people who make assumptions. They made you look like the end of the north end of a south bound mule. We all need help the poor and needy as individuals... NOT THE GOVERNMENT DOING IT FOR US... This takes away from our agency which is FUNDAMENTAL to our salvation. Stop worrying about Glenn's salvation and start thinking about your own and the world will be a happier place. :)

uu-in-the-sticks

03/13/2010 02:13:17 PM

As a Liberal Mainliner, I am a believer of the social gospel carried out in most Protestant churches. However, I believe you have misunderstood Beck. I am not defending him, but your blog is written as though he objected to Christians helping the poor and that is not his objection at all. His objection is Christians who advocate for governmental intervention before inequality is created. He wants Christians to cease objecting to the inequality government creates by means of a conservative social/political worldview. He lumps us with socialists for getting politically active, rather than simply setting up a soup kitchen after Reaganomics has created a wider gap between rich and poor.

hillsideslide

03/13/2010 01:47:57 PM

Farwestjournal's statement, "Neither Jesus, the Bible, nor the Mormon Church have ever advocated for forced distribution of wealth to the poor," seems to overlook the Biblical account of God's call for "Jubilee." Slaves were to be freed, debts were to be cancelled... even the land got a break. Now THAT is redistribution. Forced? Well, it was in the Holiness Code, aka Law of God.

riversidebatman

03/13/2010 01:39:25 PM

It is interesting that Jana says she would "I will dance a little jig" if Glenn Beck left the LDS Church. She claims to be LDS but to wish that someone would apostatize and thus forfeit their Salvation is anything but. That's like a any Protestant Christian wish Obama would recant his belief in Christ because of his views on social issues like gays and abortion. She also misquotes Mormon scripture. Mosiah 4:26 is a verse from a Book of Mormon King by the name of Benjamin. He was then speaking as a religious figure, not a politician. He was preaching the message of Christlike charity, not endorsing higher taxes or any form of government forced redistribution of wealth. Jana neither understands the Book of Mormon nor the meaning of the term "social justice."

hthalljr

03/12/2010 08:53:17 PM

Jana, I don't think that Beck would disagree at all with you about the need for individual charity. If I don't pay my taxes, I go to prison, so I doubt that at judgment day I can plead that part of my taxes went to help the poor. (I think I'll have a much better chance with an insanity defense!) As one who was rescued by the LDS welfare program during a long period of unemployment, I cannot sing adequate praises of my church's amazing ministry to the poor. But the fact that my church refuses to apply for funding from the federal faith-based government initiatives tells me where the Church stands on private charity vs. government welfare. That said, I believe that there is room for honest disagreement between Latter-day Saints on the nature and extent of government aid to the poor. The rumors that there a few Democrats among the general authorities of the Church are true! I think that what Beck wanted to articulate is that organized religions, in the name of "social justice," should not represent Christ's call for individual charity as an endorsement of ANY governmental program. I wish that Beck were more articulate. BTW, Jana, being somewhat of a dummy myself, I really enjoyed your book! Tracy Hall Jr hthalljr'gmail'com

oneofthree

03/12/2010 05:17:03 PM

I agree with farwestjournal. Although I don't always agree with what the Beckster says. I interpreted what he was saying that we as a christian body should not be part of a government controlled welfare system. Its been tried in other countries and it does not work. Beck was also talking mostly about radical christian churches that teach the opposite of Charity. Charity comes from the heart. Let people make the choice to give to the needy, don't force them to do it, it will lose all meaning of what Christ intended buy taking care of the needy by Charity. A lot of idle people take advantage of free government handouts, this will only breed more idle people and it is the people that have the real needs that suffer because the current government system is being overrun by freeloaders. The middle class in Americans are the ones that pay for these government run programs. Most government programs waste our money by backdoor deals and corruption. And Finally, Jana your credibility as a latter-day saint goes in the toilet for someone who would dance the jig at someone leaving your church, based on what I know about the Church. The money generated by the church welfare programs and fast offerings or donations are from the heart and have meaning to those that make that sacrifice. But to have a government force us redistribute our hard eared money something else entirely, and i would not call it charity. I happily donate to charitable organizations and I know where 100% of that donation goes, unlike government run program which are full of waste and corruption.

farwestjournal

03/12/2010 01:52:01 PM

The trouble is that most Christians and some Mormons are not biblically literate. They trust blindly in what their pastors teach them, and so make inaccurate comparisons of Jesus’ love for the poor, and his related encouragement for us to minister to them, as being somehow equal with Social Justice. Neither Jesus, the Bible, nor the Mormon Church have ever advocated for forced distribution of wealth to the poor. All LDS offerings for the indigent are “Free Will,” in fact the concept of moral agency lies at the very heart of the Mormon Faith. Modern concepts of social justice are anathema to the true doctrine of moral agency, they cannot coexist. True love should lie at the heart of all we do for others, forced service in worthless.

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