Just Plain Human

Michael Jackson's destruction wasn't a revealing documentary, but setting himself up as an idol to be worshiped.

swb-from-indiana

11/23/2009 09:52:35 PM

This post is a little late to put it mildly. But, recently my four-year-old nephew crawled into bed with me for comfort when I was babysitting my sister's children, and eventually we both fell asleep. But I'm not the parent which Boteach says a child can only sleep with a parent. Nonsense.

ima

11/08/2009 07:55:58 AM

this site should be ashamed of themselves for posting rubbish like this on as their content...I thought this is a positive site, yet this article is quite negative, and since when are you the judge of anyone? what is your purpose with articles like this one? as to Mr. Rabbi S., you are PATHETIC..... what kind of a friend...rabbi....counselor are you ??? people come to you in confindence and you break it? so much for your CREDIBILITY of being a so called "confidant". do you go and trumpet publicly all of your patients' and friends' problems ??? SHAME ON YOU! no respect for you sir. all my respects to Michael Jackson's memory and to his family! and sincerest apologies for all the bad stuff they have to hear from all the "so called "friends" of Michael's!

rastacath

11/04/2009 12:43:41 AM

This story makes me sick! Michael Jackson is no longer with us, so why is this still on beliefnet?? He was not ever charged and found guilty in any molestation case! PLEASE get this article off of here and let this wonderful man rest in peace!!!

mykal100

11/28/2003 11:48:55 AM

We'll all have to wait and see how this turns out in court. All the opinions of every armchair DA's, or physcologists here don't mean anything. All we know about Michael Jackson is what we read in papers, and see on TV. Is he a pedophile? Nobody here can say that for sure. Is he wierd? Well, I think so (but rich people are allowed to be wierd, they can afford it). Usually, I love to see the rich and famous fall. But in this case, for some reason, I am willing to give Jackson the benefit of the doubt. Did somebody change it to "Guilty until proven innocent" when I wasn't looking?

empirestrikesback

11/26/2003 06:24:11 AM

I am torn on the decision of MJ. I think the parents should have thought about letting him spend the night with him in the first place. Also perhaps they had just used MJ for the financial help for thier sons medical condition. Now they want more. Who really knows. The point is, if someone is quetionable in any way. DON'T let your child spend time with them, period.

madeline11

11/23/2003 04:21:23 PM

I am resigned that we/the public will be subjected to another drawn out process. I, for one, would prefer to hear the facts and limit the sensationalism that the media bestows upon such cases. The DA says they have a strong case--what evidence? I think MJ is deteriorating, judging from the TV interviews he gave last spring. Somebody needs to determine if he is emotionally stable enough to have custody of his own children. It would be irresponsible to ignore the implications of his behavior. As for his childhood traumas, I empathize. With the resources available to him he should have sought treatment and endeavored to confront the painful issues as so many must. He is a 45 year old man--not a 12 year old. If he so damaged --arrested development at the emotional age of 12--then a custodian needs to be appointed for him.

purpleku69

11/21/2003 09:42:57 PM

Rabbi Boteach can't understand how M J would do this. Well, I can. It's called PEDOPHAELIA. M J has an obsession--he is attracted to pubescent boys, in the same way that other men are attracted to supermodels. It is the way he is wired, despite his "marriages" to women (can anyone spell coverup?). His sexual addiction to 12 year olds is more powerful than any court-ordered restraining order or outpatient therapy. He MUST have boys, because his sex drive is made that way. There is no known therapeutic modality which will "fix" this, so he is condemned to a life of pubescent boys or celibacy.

gailvin

11/21/2003 08:40:59 PM

Give me a break!!! None of us can begin to understand the life of a "superstar" We are innocent in this country until proven guilty. Anyone who accepts 20 or in excess of 25 million is guilty of greed. Michael Jackson is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. The Mother of this child has hired the same lawyer that reached a settlement in the last case. The child along with the Mother lived off and on with him for over 3 years. This whole thing reeks of fraud. Just because someone is different than what you are used to as next door neighbors does not make him guilty. The hunger for "big" money makes people do terrible things. Let the lawyers and the courts decide not small minded jerks.

barblee

11/21/2003 10:12:08 AM

This story is just so sad for all who are involved and my heart goes out to all. I don't know what the true story is in all of this I just know that Michael Jackson is in a lot of trouble at this time. Without a doubt he is an awesome entertainer and with that celebrity comes a huge responsibility. It is plain to see that Mr. Jackson has many issues and is carrying a lot of baggage. Is this devotion and love for kids sincere or is there more to it ? Only he and God and the plantiff know that one. It saddens me to see media call him whaco jacko and a freak. My prayers are with all involved.

Demise

11/21/2003 07:26:49 AM

Thank you redaunt.

redaunt

11/21/2003 04:00:07 AM

Maybe I was misinterpreted... I have no intention of being jugde/jury/etc. What I am is the person who must deal with what all of society wants put out of its sight. Do I want pity? NO! I am in the right profession because I can look straight into the face of monsters EVERY SINGLE DAY and know that I WILL UPHOLD THE LAW. The law of the Old Testament would afford such monsters much more suitable punishment than that of our society. But guess what? I'm here, and I deal with the humans that, if you're lucky, you'll only encounter in a movie theatre. What I stated are based on my experiences... NOT a judgement.

sarasvati45

11/20/2003 06:49:16 PM

normajean,I agree with redaunt. I don't think redaunt is being judgemental, just factual. Why didn't Micheal Jackson go to court the first time? Because he settled before he could. That is close to an admission of guilt without actually saying so. He settled instead of facing his accuser, and his accuser was uncooperative, being a scared child. I hope you aren't one of those people that think because a certain human being holds a certain status that they walk on water and are beyond reproach.

normajean2

11/20/2003 04:42:27 PM

redaunt, you're in the wrong profession, perhaps you should be judge and jury and hangman since you can look at a person and know everything about them. If Michael Jacskson is quilty, hang him, he deserves nothing less. But please, please let's let the courts decide. After they find him quilty then you can all come on these boards and spout your hate, and say I told you so. Also, if he is guilty, does not the father of the boy he supposedly molested in 93 hold some responsibility for not getting him off the streets then?

redaunt

11/20/2003 04:01:24 PM

As a Corrections officer in a Maximum Security Prison I deal on a daily basis with sex offenders, and after reading files of their crimes, I know too much. These men are often seen as "weak, harmless, gentle", who could not commit such crimes. WRONG! What other persona must a man adopt to prey upon children than that of "weak, harmless, gentle"? These men,like JACKO, have mastered the art of deception, manipulation and victimization. It's hard for society to spot or perceive this sort of threat in another human being, but ask yourselves 'Why?'. These predators are more clever, manipulative and adaptable than any other I encounter in the Penal System. Without using psyco-babble, or Jacko's troubled youth as an indicator, JUST LOOK AT AND LISTEN TO THIS MAN! It don't take a weatherman to know which way the wind blows, and it doesn't take someone who lives and breathes the rancid air of a Sex Offenders Unit to know he is the WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING. It's the nature of his beast, after all.

geyser

11/20/2003 01:38:22 PM

One would think, after what he went through in 1993, Mr. Jackson would not let this happen again. He probably has been inviting children to sleep over since 1993, his luck just ran out. The ending will be the same and unfortunately, not the last.

rubyg

11/20/2003 01:17:44 PM

I don't know if Michael has done anything wrong, but, because of the first allegations, why would any parent allow their child to be exposed to any danger? Why did the parents permit the boy to sleep in Michael's bed? Where were they while this was happening? I believe that there are child molesters that we couldn't spot. They take all shapes and forms, however if there is even a hint of improper behavior from an adult, no child should be permitted to be left alone with that person. I believe that it is a tragedy for the child because he will be scared by this whole experience for the rest of his life. As if his cancer isn't enough for him to handle, now he also has to handle this very private experience in the public eye. He is the ultimate victim of this whole situation. At this point, it doesn't even matter if the molestation occured. I hope for his sake that it didn't.

normajean2

11/20/2003 12:15:46 PM

Before we go slinging rocks at Michael Jackson perhaps we should think on these things: 1 He was never taken before a criminal court, why, perhaps they didn't have any evidence. 2 What sane parent would allow a child molester to pay them off for abusing their child. Everyone knows that they could have put him in jail and then filed civil charges and got all the money the courts would allow. 3 With so many people out to get him why if he's such a child molester would it take another 10 years for them to find what they are looking for. There are many people out to get Michael Jackson, if you don't believe it you should have seen Gloria Allred on Larry King the other night, she was practically salivating at the news and admitted she was one of the people who called child protective services when he dangeled his youngest child. Do not people from child protective services watch t.v.? So until he is "proven" quilty, let's give the guy a break. Perhaps he is quilty but, perhaps he is not.

rbethell

11/20/2003 10:12:11 AM

Uh, I mean from their "ways" not waves. :-)

rbethell

11/20/2003 10:11:36 AM

Why is Rabbi Boteach going public, instead of "supporting" Michael, etc? Real easy, and basic Judaism. The Lord ordered Jonah to go and preach to Nineveh that they were in danger from their waves. Jonah tried to disobey, because he did not want Nineveh to be saved. Later, peeved when his very public message was heeded, Jonah sulked under a plant, that then died. Jonah was furious, but the Lord told him, "should not I pity Nin'eveh, that great city, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons who do not know their right hand from their left?" THAT is why publicly.

WillSea

11/20/2003 09:20:12 AM

If the good rabbi is so focused on media idols, he himself is giving them more importance than they deserve, ADDING to the idolatry. if self-described "religious leaders" of the world, some of which post here, were to focus on the emergence of the Divine within every one of us, instead of railing against so-called media figures, perhaps we'd all be better off. Dont cha think?

cinorjer

11/20/2003 08:03:33 AM

It's been a sad journey, watching Michael Jackson self-destruct. Sad for him, for his family, for his children, and for the other children and their families that he might have harmed along the way. What lessons do we learn from something like this? That fame and fortune are addictive and destructive drugs more powerful than anything we might injest? There are plenty of famous and rich people who understand that the rules still apply to them. In the end, a flawed man is able to put off paying for his flaws, but not forever. The bill eventually comes due. Sad.

sweetness4life

11/20/2003 01:00:16 AM

Norm_uk: Hear, hear! Michael Jackson doesn't have an "idolatry" problem. He seems to have a "can't-keep-his-hands-off-of-young-boys" problem. The fact that this is still an issue for Jackson, after the events in 1993, shows that he hasn't learned & obviously has some kind of problem with his behavior. I mean, come on, his career was practically ruined, just on the one accusation in 1993! Anyway, you're right, Norm_uk, this article seems out of date already. What Rabbi Boteach is attacking about the idolization of Michael Jackson, could probably be said of the idolization of superstar entertainers in general. Jackson just took it to a megalomaniacal extreme with the "History" album. But that seems minor compared to what he's accused of this time. With all the money in the world, he should have gotten some help; but if he did do what he's accused of, it might be too late now...

Norm_uk

11/19/2003 11:36:07 PM

All of these words about Michael Jackson now seem to mean very little in the light of the recent warrant issued for his arrest on one count of child abuse...

Remyisme

10/03/2003 11:07:40 AM

If Rabbi thinks that Michael portraites himself as God, he may be has a reason to say that, because what Michael does is forbbidden according to the religion and not only the Jewish religion. But Michael is not religious, if he would be religious the same as Rabbi he wouldn't be a celebrity. I myself Jewish, but I am not religious, I don't wear the religious clothes and do not pray everyday. I know how is it like according to the religion, it's forrbidden to wear fancy clothes, it's forbidden to listen to unreligious music, it's forbbidden to be a celebrity, to peform on stage, because according to the religion it's "not modest" as they say. Rabbi says, he told his kids that no MAN can be a THRILLER besides GOD. It comes from him because he is religious, but not all of us are like him and he can't speak for everybody.

m1958j

08/10/2003 03:06:51 PM

Okay, firstly I'm not afraid to say I am one of Michael Jackson's so called "worshippers". But I must say, it isn't because I think he is God. I grew with Michael, I enjoy his music, I enjoy his unique views about life and I think his different way of growing up helped to culture that. He is a really good person and he isn't perfect and he never said he was. He is like all of us and furthermore he wants to be like "US". The so called "normal" people of the world. Yes, he is a celeb, yes, because of this, he is a target for the demons of the world. I guess what I want to say is Boteach is only one of so many who have in their own way betrayed Michael. They come they go and Michael is very strong or he wouldn't still be here. Michael wants everyone to love each other, God, Mother nature, and to really see the beauty that the this very tattered world still holds. Talent aside he is a good person, who we respect and love as one of God's gifts to the world.

Judysh

07/26/2003 03:48:52 PM

I was sad and horrified as I read Rabbi Boteach's article. Surely as Michael Jackson's "friend", and a rabbi, he knew that going to the person he felt was doing wrong directly was a proper approach, not writing to millions of people about what he perceived his friend as doing wrong. Rabbi Boteach needs to ask himself why he thinks Michael should listen to him on how to raise children.... And how Michael should react towards Tommy M. and Bashir. These are clearly Mr. Jackson's decisions, not the rabbi's. One wonders what prompted this oh-so-subtle public lashing out at Mr. Jackson by a rabbi. Out of tune and out of step, Rabbi Boteach; you need to learn how to really dance the friendship dance with a friend.

MJtwins

04/30/2003 10:40:58 PM

I am disappointed but not shocked. It seems that Michael Jackson has surrounded himself with people who use him for his fame and then when they are done with him, trash him for more fame. Rabbi Shumuley Boteach was one of MJ's biggest defenders when he was getting publicity for it, now that no one cares about the Rabbi, he feels the need to drag MJ's name in the trash for publicity. Reminds me of Lisa Marie, Cory Feldman, Martin Bashir...etc. Sadly, this is MJ's life. No wonder, children are his only friends. They don't even know what publicity means or how to betray.

maxinemorse

03/15/2003 08:52:41 AM

Boteach's criticism of Jackson has probably more to do with the report that he has been caught embezzling funds from the Heal the Kids charity and Jackson won't have anything more to do with him. This is not the first time there has been a report of Boteach embzzling money - he set up a charity in the UK in 1999 in which all the charitable funds were allegely used to fund his life style (he was investigated by the Inland Revenue and ordered to repay). He is also (reportedly) banned from the pulpit for his views on sex. Jackson should have done his homework before dealing with him.

airenMoonWolf

03/02/2003 03:48:30 PM

I am shocked and sickened by the effusive praise this liar and cheat heaped upon someone who for all his "genius" is still a man, he can praise the name of Michael then hurt himin the same manner he denounces others for...well he was right as a rabbi and a supposed man of God he needs the lesson of life. I am so upset by all this that i am not even making sense.....

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 05:21:13 PM

Boteach is such a hypocrit. He wrote this article back in 2000 and its even here on Beliefnet's website located at this url: http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/48/story_4810_1.html&boardID=6610 Go and read for yourselves.

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 05:15:26 PM

Part 11: Boteach continues.. (reminder: these parts are from an essay Boteach wrote about Jackson in 2000). As we grow older, the pain of the world around us forces us increasingly to harden our hearts. What Michael’s devotion to children is saying is that while we must grow up on the outside, we should forever retain the child at our core. By contrast, many adults don external garments to compensate for internal deficiencies and to conceal their vulnerability. I am at a loss to explain Michael’s special sensitivity to children, with which I was once so poorly endowed. But I recall an old Jewish mystical tradition that says that not all humans were expelled from the Garden together with Adam and Eve. There are still some individuals who remain in Paradise and beckon us all to reenter. Could it be that Michael moon-walked back into Eden? [End of the essay. Written in 2000 by the same Boteach that is now trashing Jackson’s name.]

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 05:12:40 PM

Part 10: Boteach continues.. (reminder: this is an essay Boteach wrote about Jackson in 2000). Days after having watched a television report on Michael’s supposed near-paralyzing obsession with germs, he and I sat on the floor with our kids having dinner, playing Native Americans at a “pow-wow” in the teepee village Michael put together with his son. We ate off the floor. Germ neurosis? I don’t think so. Michael is simply not what the media reports. I see something different: a man who loves a child’s innocence and is himself innocent; a man who loves a child’s playfulness and is himself playful. What does the world hold against Michael Jackson? Perhaps it’s his extreme emphasis on the need for adults to learn from children. Indeed, our society has a tendency to use the word “adult” as a synonym for mature and responsible. What is forgotten is that the word can also connote cynical, untrusting, and scheming. 2 B Continued…

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 05:10:38 PM

Part 9: Boteach continues.. (reminder: this is an essay Boteach wrote about Jackson in 2000). We are also beginning work on a book focusing on the lessons that we adults may learn from the incorruptibility and openness that is inherent in children and which we hope will be available by the middle of next year. It has been thrilling to work with Michael on these projects. It has rejuvenated my spirit and reminded me just how inspiring meaningful work can be. Of course, I know that Michael has infuriated and mystified many. People presume his guilt after an allegation of child molestation, although he has never been charged with any wrongdoing. His silence reads to the public as stealth, his genius is often interpreted as eccentricity. I have watched outrageous rumors grow from a tabloid seed to a televised expose, and if I didn’t know the immense pain that each of these stories inflict upon Michael, I would have to laugh at the absurdity of it all. 2 B Continued…

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 05:08:20 PM

Part 8: Boteach continues... I love talking with Michael. I love his stories, his idealism, and his innovative ideas. But all talk and no action can prove pretty empty. So I have decided that we must go beyond the talk. I am now preparing to join Michael at the University of Oxford in England, where we will deliver a joint lecture emphasizing the need to re-prioritize children in society and life. Believe it or not, this will be Michael’s first-ever public lecture. The speech will serve to announce the establishment of a new foundation, "Time for Kids," for children coordinated by Michael and me. “Time for Kids” stresses the importance of children, family life, and community, and aims to unite leaders from the business, entertainment, sports, science, political, and literary worlds in taking action on child welfare issues. 2 B Continued…

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 05:07:09 PM

Part 6: Boteach continues... A steady stream of kids pours into Neverland Ranch, children fighting leukemia and other cancers. They stay for days with their families as Michael’s guests, cavorting on rides and playing with the animals. Busloads of kids from inner cities also arrive, for a day of enjoyment and attention from Michael, who escorts them onto the rides. One 10-year-old, ashamed at first to take off his hat because of chemotherapy-induced baldness, later removed it after Michael spent the day giving him the confidence to do so. My own 8-year-old daughter experienced Michael’s empathy when she got momentarily lost in the cavernous halls of Neverland’s video room. She started to cry, and Michael ran over to her and knelt down at her level. “Oh, I know how you feel,” he said. “I remember that happening to me when I was a little boy.” She was instantly comforted. I contrasted this to what would have been my natural response, to invalidate her fear and get her to toughen up. 2 B Contiued…

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 05:04:19 PM

Part 6: Boteach continues... Months later, my family had its first invitation to visit the Neverland Ranch. We arrived stocked with sunscreen and llama feed. The children were thrilled to be welcomed into this wonderland. I was excited to spend more time conversing with Michael. There, in the children’s paradise Jackson created--a kind of Disneyland meets the San Diego Zoo--I witnessed an extraordinary human being whose compassion for and devotion to children, especially those in need, knows no limits. By the time I departed after a week’s stay, I had closely observed someone for whom children are always a blessing, never a burden. I learned to be significantly more attuned to the needs of my own and others’ children. Our mutual friend was right. I had a lot to learn from Michael. 2 B continued…

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 05:02:45 PM

Boteach excerpt cont: On Thanksgiving, he invited our family to attend a showing of "Toy Story 2" at a local theater. After a highly covert series of James Bond-esque maneuvers to get us into the theater unseen and undisturbed (I could reveal the secrets, but then I would have to shoot you), we sat with heaping buckets of popcorn and biggie cokes. At first, I was just there as a father taking his kids to a children’s movie. I was there for them. But Michael was behind me laughing heartily at the animated characters, and I chuckled to think that no one else in the theatre realized who was emitting this carefree, joyous laugh. Gradually my own chuckle became a guffaw, for Michael’s laughter was contagious. Soon, I was really enjoying the film. It struck me for the first time in recent memory that I did not need to see people getting shot, dismembered, or naked in order to be amused. For a brief few moments, I was released from a dark world that we adults have created and call “entertainment.” 2 B continued

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 04:56:22 PM

Excerpts from an essay Boteach wrote in 2000 (continued) ========== Part 4: --------- We continued to spend time together, speaking not only of spiritual matters but also of all the things that friends talk about: art, music, books, childhood, and family. Michael attended synagogue with me in New York, and the experience was moving for both of us. The congregation welcomed him with open arms. Michael accepted shyly, and to this day still speaks of the overwhelming sense of acceptance he felt in that small, yet lively synagogue. Michael is not afraid of showing his feelings. to be contined...

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 04:54:04 PM

Part 3 ================= For instance, when we discussed the fact that deer hunting was a common sport in the United Kingdom, Michael’s eyes welled up. “I just don’t understand that,” he said. “How could someone shoot something that helpless and innocent?” I had to check my first response of cynicism to such a reaction. My usual answer of “Well, that’s the food chain--survival of the fittest!” would have been a slap in the face to this man who, unlike so many of us, lives his life guided by a loving heart rather than a cold intellect. Later, he cried again when he spoke of how many parents couldn’t care less about missing suppertime with their children. (I tried to wipe the guilty look off my face.) When his 2-year-old son Prince came into the room, Michael spoke to him with respect as well as affection, patiently answering his questions. It was clear that the little boy was the delight of his father’s life. to be continued...

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 04:53:13 PM

Part 2: ========= It was this story that came back to me last month when my family and I were guests of Michael Jackson at his Neverland Valley ranch in California. I know what you’re thinking. Is this the most blatant display of name-dropping ever, or should we be waiting for a punch line? Neither is the case. Michael and I met a year and a half ago through Uri Geller, a mutual friend, who saw a commonality in Michael’s and my own concern for the well-being of the human soul. He seemed to think we could learn from each other. I was skeptical. I had already tried to learn to moonwalk in the '80s, and it was not a pretty picture. Our friend insisted that I could gain more than better dance moves from a meeting with Michael. So we arranged to get together at Michael’s New York home. From the moment we sat down together, I was struck by his amazing sensitivity to the pain of all living things.

urbanfaith

03/01/2003 04:51:41 PM

These are excerpts of an essay that was written by Boteach back in 2000 when Jackson was pumping millions of dollars into his charity. ====================== Part 1: Michael and Me in Neverland The rabbi and the shy superstar feed the llamas, picnic on the floor, and create an initiative to help children In my second year as rabbi-in-residence at the University of Oxford, a Hassidic couple with 10 children came to stay with us for the Jewish festival of Sukkot. As we sat down to a festive meal with students, a twenty-something woman at our table looked quizzically at the numerous young children who surrounded their mother. “Are all these yours?” she asked incredulously. to be continued...

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 04:01:17 PM

This is indeed sad for Michael Jackson (another friend betraying him - I'm sure that must hurt alot ). I hope he is not disheartened by it (if he even knows about it). Everyone that believes in God and/or prayer; please pray for Michael Jackson because he has some serious demons trying their best to destroy him (destroy his mind, his body, his soul, his livelihood, and his GOD-GIVEN legacy of being one of the greatest entertainers ever). The devil is indeed....mad.

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 03:58:11 PM

The "mastery of his own life." More nice phrasing by the rabbi. The "good" rabbi says he "counsels" people all the time. So, I guess a lot of peeps don't have "mastery" of their lives or why else would they need his "conseling?" Everybody else in the world is perfect and can has complete control over their lives but Michael Jackson, huh? And that crack about him "never becoming the king of pop again" was just too tacky, mean spirited and more "mind games" especially for someone who calls themself a "Rabbi." Religion can be a powerful tool; whether in the hands of an honest or a dishonest person. Being a Christian and having studied Christianity for years - I find it very distasteful when one uses religion in an obvious attempt to publicly crucify someone else. It becomes even more distasteful when this person is a cheat in their own right and is betraying someone that used to be their "friend" (think of Judas).

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 03:56:04 PM

Everyone knows (including Joe Jackson whether he admits it or not) that Michael and his brothers got whuppings when they were children. It was a different time; kids GOT whipped. Also Mike NEVER said he blamed his father for ALL his ills because Joe whipped him. But, he did say his father was a genius (source: LWMJ), and that he loved and forgave him in his Oxford speech (sounds like honoring thy parent to me). Guess...you forgot all about that, huh, rabbi.

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 03:55:03 PM

What "erosion" is he talking about here? Setting up in the minds of readers that something is terribly "disturbing" about Michael Jackson's behavior. *insert Martin Bashir overdramatic voiceovers here* Notice how he DEFENDS all of MJ's enemies (Martin Bashir, Tommy Mottola) while backhandedly backhandedly slapping Michael in the process? Tommy Mottola WAS/IS devilish - and NOT just Michael says so or believes it in the entertainment business. If anything peeps were worshipping Tommy MORE than anyone (kissing his ring and ish). But the "good" rabbi totally ignores Tommy's devilishness and Bashier's deceptions towards MJ. Wonder why?

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 03:50:50 PM

[QUOTE]"History" album in 1995. Accompanying the release were, unbelievably, giant statues of Michael placed in cities all over the world, including London and Prague, as well as a video depicting Michael as a gargantuan idol, complete with thousands of soldier-worshippers at his beck and call. [/QUOTE] So because Sony created and floated statues of MJ down a river - this was his "down fall" and he was setting himself up to be worshipped? I beg to differ. It's called "entertainment" rabbi....plain and as simple as that. So what? What is the big deal? He's an entertainer that LOVES over the top stuff. This doesn't translate into him wanting to be worshipped. This is the "good" rabbi bandwagon jumping to the highest degree with this statement. He knows MJ was criticized back during the HIStory era for this; which was '96/7...why bring this up NOW? Has he floated any statues lately? What's he doing NOW (that's so over the top) to keep his disciples worshipping him?

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 03:46:35 PM

[QUOTE]As a marriage counselor I have been asked many times by husbands whether it was OK to share a bed with another woman, a platonic friend, when there was absolutely no possibility of sex taking place. I made my absolute revulsion for such practices clear. The same is true when it comes to children, if you are not the parent.[/QUOTE] Ok...comparing MJ having children sleep in his BEDROOM to two unmarried consenting adults (friends) sleeping together? That's quite a stretch. Adults sleeping with adults in a bed together is a whole different can of worms, rabbi. I agree with you on that - but what's that got to do with children sleeping in MJ's bedroom while he sleeps on the floor? Nothing...he's comparing apples to oranges.

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 03:41:55 PM

[QUOTE]Michael Jackson has endured many scandals in his career, but none like the one he is enmeshed in now. While accused of child molestation in 1993, he was never arrested, charged, indicted, or convicted. But now he has gone on international television and announced that he regularly invites children into his bed.[/QUOTE] For this man to call himself "rabbi" and intentionally lie on a "friend" is disturbing. In '93 Michael was accused and INVESTIGATED by the police and NO evidence was found. How does that COMPARE to whatever Michael Jackson might have "announced" (nice wording, huh?) on international tv - he is NOT now being investigated for ANYTHING. So...How can it be worse? A perfect example (right off the bat) of how the "good" rabbi is trying to play with weak minded people by twisting statements. Oh...he's a cagey one the "good" rabbi. Again...Michael Jackson NEVER said he was "inviting" children into his bed. So that's another lie.

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 03:38:52 PM

Boteach is very good with twisting things around as well as innuendo and backhanded compliments (I hate those the most)...very good in fact. He plays well on the psych of the reader with a lot of truth concerning God and idolatry towards celebs - even tells you he's been quilty of it himself...just to let you know he's not "above" it either to make the reader "feel" good about him; and set himself up to be more "believable." He knows very well that people will recoil at this; because who wants to be identified with worshipping another human being like "god" - it's utterly appalling.

Someoneinthedark

03/01/2003 03:31:09 PM

Boteach "used" the Michael Jackson name to help him set up the charity he speaks about; then stole money from it. I wonder why the "good" rabbi doesn't mention that in this write up? Where I question the "good" rabbi's intentions in writing this article is: Why is he bringing all this up now? Now....AFTER he is no longer "friends" with Michael Jackson? Could it be because Michael disassociated himself from the "good" rabbi because he was stealing money from the charity he "used" Michael to help him setup? Is he telling the truth when he states he brought some of his "concerns" up to Michael before their disassociation? I'd bet NOT. Actually the "good" rabbi must have forgotten that he's written and commented about Michael Jackson before; and in a much more "positive" light. http://www.exclusivelymj.com/boteach.html

urbanfaith

02/28/2003 02:54:08 PM

I think the writing by Boteach on Michael Jackson is Just Plain Ridiculous. I can't believe that given Boteach's shady past with the misappropriation of funds with various charities, that he can even have the nerve to try to judge anyone, let alone Jackson. I think Boteach's views are preposterous. He even says himself that he has no reason whatsoever to believe Jackson is a child abuser. But then he goes on to do some pseudo-psychoanalysis about who he THINKS Jackson is? I think Boteach should get real and spare us all the nonsense. All of these things that he allegedly doesn't like Jackson for didn't seem to be a problem as long as Jackson was kicking in millions of dollars to help him start a charity. That same charity, run by he and his wife, is now under investigation for misappropriation of funds. This is another example of an 'ex-friend' getting all upset because he no longer has Jackson's ear or access to his fame.

DawnLouise

02/28/2003 12:58:34 PM

Part of the point is, we all like to judge each other. It is human nature to feel better about ourselves, by looking down on other's. Of course other people oie, but if they can convince themselves Michael's lies are more important, worth more attention, then they just do not feel so bad. The people who tan and judge Michael do not see what they do as changing their appearance, but improving it. You have to look at another persons perspective, and theirs for them is true. So for Michael, their judgement is true. We are all just children playing a game. The important thing is not what we think of each other at all. The only thing important about anyone is their relationship with God. The only thing that is true of each of us, is when we notice another persons apperance, we are not looking to God. When we expect them to respond to us, we are not listening to God. The louder we get, the more obvious that is. And we don't like that. Umano, I will e-mail you when I get home. Dawn

RAREJEWEL

02/28/2003 12:28:28 PM

NO MATTER WHAT MICHAEL JACKSON DOES THERE IS GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO WILL FIND SOMETHING "NEGATIVE" TO SAY ABOUT HIM. I WANT TO KNOW WHY HE IS SEEN AS "WIERD". SO WHAT IF HE IS LIEING ABOUT HIS SKIN, SO WHAT IF HE HAD IT BLEACHED? MILLIONS OF WHITE PEOPLE SUN BATH AND SPEND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR TRYING TO GET THAT "DARKER" SKIN THEY "CLAIM" TO HATE. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ALL OF THE WHITE FOLKS WHO GET TANS, AND WANT DARKER SKIN. DO YOU THINK YOU ARE SICK FOR GOING THROUGH ALL OF THOSE CHANGES TO GET A TAN? WELL, I DO!

DawnLouise

02/28/2003 11:53:41 AM

Businessmn9 If you are judging the man based on a deposition illegally leaked duh, then I really hope we never do business. A business that mankes judgements based on one arguement, leaving no room for deception, is not a business that will further in the future. Jumping like that leads to early appearance of success but Enron type disaster. Hope you are not a business advisor I'd hate to see the results of your work. Now as I meantioned before, there is a truth here not told, a good business man would research this before jumping to conclusions. But you didn't say you were good did you. Dawn

sarabo

02/28/2003 04:47:43 AM

If you want the truth, read the GQ article written by Mary A. Fischer, "Was Michael Jackson Framed? The Untold Story" http://www.lsulaw.com/thelegaltattler/michael.htm The media was so quick to crucify Michael Jackson with innuendo and tabloid fodder. They never even bothered to check out the boy's story. They never even bothered to do research on the boy's family, especially his father, a dentist who wanted to be a movie screenwriter. In this article, you'll learn that the boy's father administered a drug called sodium amytal for the sole purpose of pulling a tooth. This drug is a potent hypnotic drug, which leaves a person susceptible to the power of suggestion. WHY would his father give him this drug when a local anesthetic would do? ANd WHY would the Chandler's file a civil law suit just to settle rather than pursue a criminal law suit so that they could put the perpetrator behind bars? BECAUSE IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Read the article. It may just answer some of your questions.

misskitty_79

02/28/2003 04:25:31 AM

Rabbi Boteach, if you are so uptight that you cannot accept two adults sharing a bed in a NON-sexual manner... And I quote "As a marriage counselor I have been asked many times by husbands whether it was OK to share a bed with another woman, a platonic friend, when there was absolutely no possibility of sex taking place. I made my absolute revulsion for such practices clear." Sharing a bed doesn't necesarily have anything to do with an act of sexual nature.

umano

02/28/2003 04:15:59 AM

i respect everyone's oppinion , but open your eyes ,listen or at least read before you judge. peace dd P.S. DawnLouise ,please e-mail me at this adress need to talk...denis@tood.info

businesmn9

02/28/2003 02:49:52 AM

This man is abusing children and it must be stopped. There is no maybe, gray areas just absolutes. Check out what he did to a 13 year old 11 years ago.http://www.thesmokinggun.com/doc_o_day/mjdec1.html

bonni623

02/27/2003 11:45:12 PM

I think we have alot more to be concerned about other than Michael Jackson. So he's a little wierd, wouldn't you be? look at the life he has lived, he never had a normal child hood, so no wonder he is so child like now. As far as him being worshiped like a god, that is the public's fault, not his. If he enjoys being treated like a god, then I do not believe that is so abnormal. It may not be right, but it does not classify him as a freak. I do not think he is having orgies with these kids that sleep in his room! once again, if you look at the strange life this guy has led, it all makes sense. So in closing, I think people should leave this poor man alone, and let him have the peace he's been craving for the past 44 years. Plus, isn't gossiping a sin????? think about it!

tararenee1

02/27/2003 11:14:01 PM

Look, I'm a Michael Jackson fan just like the next person, but Boteach is right about this. Michael needs to be put in check and he needs Jehovah. and just a side note to Boteach, It's not up to the Jehovah's Witnesses to take Michael back. Michael has to make that decision. Someone he trusts (like his Mom) needs to talk to him.

sarabo

02/27/2003 09:20:00 PM

It's funny how Rabbi Shmuley Boteach uses the public forum to chastise Michael Jackson. Is it because Michael no longer considers the rabbi part of his inner circle? Is it because the "Heal the Children" iniative of which the rabbi was the director is no longer viable because the rabbi has been known to "redirect funds" that were supposed to go to the charity toward renovating his own home? Care to explain that? Michael Jackson said himself, "Gavin and his brother Star slept IN the bed. I SLEPT ON THE FLOOR." He DID NOT invite Gavin into his bed! Why are you twisting his words? Just so you could say to MIchael, "I told you so? YOU're WRONG and misguided?" Rabbi, You seem to believe that YOU are his SAVIOR. For YOU alone uphold the highest morals, right? What went wrong? Why don't you just tell him how you feel face to face instead of criticizing his lifestyle publicly? It seems so callous and calculated on your part. If anyone's truly lost his way, it might just be you.

cyberlioness

02/27/2003 05:44:24 PM

Joseph Campbell encouraged all of us to find our own personal myth inside of the greater context of the history of mythology and the wealth of archetypes we have to draw from in the human experience. One of the impressive aspects of Rabbi Boteach's comment is that he recognizes when the search for personal myth crosses the line into believing onself to be above spiritual law (and man-made law) and the danger of extrapolating oneself into God status. I would say, further, that Mr. Jackson is essentially a lonely, tragic and sad individual who has lost his way. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." However good his intentions may be, he is creating negative energy around him. The one who will pay the most for this will be himself, of course, but the children and families he touches will also pay for their participation and mistakes in judgment. I think we need to pull back, however, from our obsession with observing his separation from truth and contemplate out own pathways.

aritha

02/27/2003 01:36:33 PM

...AND THIS MESAGE IS TO THE RABI WHO WROTE THAT ARTICLE ON MICHAEL....YOU ARE A BIG HYPOCRITE!if u consider michael sucha gr8 comanion of ures ud lever write things about that on a popular website.and...THE LAST THING WE WANT IS FOR HIM TO BECOME A JEHOWAHS WITNES!!THEY ARE INSANE AND ARE THE BIGEST HYPOCRTIE IVE EVER SEEN!my cuzins got converted and now they lead the most miserables lives eva. i feel sorry for them. but the more they wana get out, the more they cant. its likea a trap!PLEASE DONT ADVOCATE SUCH EXTREMIST BEELIFS IN THIS SITE. we talk bout islamis extremists but yet fail to notice the christian extremists with in us!

aritha

02/27/2003 01:31:44 PM

LISTEN!BIG DEAL IF HE HAS CHILDREN SLEEPING IN HIS OWN BEDROOM?!!why is everyone in the US and most of Eureope so OBSESSED WITH SEX?!and all you perves out there who think he shouldn't do that because he is giving out a wrong image, id like to ask you WHAT WRONG IMAGE?!isnt it true whn they say that VULGAR THOUGHTS ARE PRESENT IN THE VULGAR MINDS?!so ask yourself that first!These childrens partens are quite awre that their children are slepping with Michael Jackson.Wait a minute...incase u were thinkin sumthin else.THEY WERE NOT AVING SEX WITH HIM!HE WAS MERELY CAHRING HIS BED WITH THEM!after all...isnt that a very kind thing to do?After i saw that interview, tho i was aware that he was unstable to sum extent, hope for humanity actually sparkled in me.THERE IS ACTUALLY A MAN OUT THERE WHO CAN SLEEP WITH SOMEONE IN THE SAME BED WITHOUT HAVING TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM!!this is good news!it means that not everyone we know are perves!

nkdeye

02/27/2003 01:23:41 PM

In old times, and still in some cultures, welcoming a friend to your home meant to offer them your bed for the night when they visit you. It's considered an honor and politeness to accomodate your friends this way. Michael is a celebrity, and adored by many children, as much as many other celebrities are - no matter what he does, it will never be to everybody's satisfaction. Some people feed off other people's misery, and bringing people down make them feel good. Leave the man alone. He has done more good to children than most of any of us. Can we look at good rather than the bad and still sell the news? Forgive not Michael, but the poor spirit of the ones that live off his crumbs...

divineparadox

02/27/2003 01:11:05 PM

Just plain Human? What happened to Michael is what can and has happened to all those who allow themselves to be idolized. The Hero who embodies the ideal, fail to discriminate the difference between the vehicle and the essence - they confuse "Thy Will" with "my will" There is an essay on this topic at: http://www.divineparadox.com/Conversations/IdealHeroIdol.htm RL

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 08:16:29 PM

Human1 thank you for the pleasant day. May God also bless yours. May we meet on the message boards. Isn't it wonderful to share beyond mans understanding when we find God, threw his words, and free ourselves from the shackels of the needs to seek good words from other's. False teachings have certainly forced me to seek aproval of men/women, when God was the only one that mattered. We are all his children surely. Your heart is welcome, and you are in my prayers as well. Peace and love, Dawn

human1

02/26/2003 05:09:08 PM

DawnLouise....your sweet and gentle nature is a breath of fresh air. I am thrilled to hear this man is seeking God's truth, thrilled to hear he studies His word. I must go today....spent far too long here already. I've got Bible study and prayers...I'll gladly pray for you and for Michael. God be with you, bring you peace, and may His angels gaurd and protect your children. In Jesus who is our life, h1

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 04:59:36 PM

goodness have you even seen Mine.:0 When I was upset I hit submit without reading, and now I'm afraid people think I spell with = in words. :)

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 04:58:37 PM

Human1 he will. And please remember Michael said he slept on the floor, or sleeping bags. That may be a little thing, but the way it is blown out of proportion, it is important, when there are so many splitting hairs. He also has been exploring Jesus threw the bible and definetly other sources then JW. He forced me to see, I was in a reformed church(similar) that it was man that let me down, the name for ne was reformed, for him maybe JW, but not God. And his knowledge of the Old Testament would astound most here.

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 04:58:28 PM

In fact he showed me so many other ways to see Jesus threw the eyes of the wisdom of God threw the Old Testament, that today, the things I let me oppress me feel like foolishness. But that is the freedom of finding God always there, that we in our wisdoms do stray, as God says. Children in pain, do listen alot easier to him, about these things. Maybe because they feel the aloneness of false teachings. Where we adults, have had so many defencises and safeguards built up just incase Jesus isn't real. False teaching did that to us, to you to me and to him. But rest assured he knows, and is learning, he also reaches back to those who are being hurt. Dawn

human1

02/26/2003 04:48:47 PM

Hope you can read through my typos there! Sorry....deliver=deliverer etc.

human1

02/26/2003 04:19:21 PM

(cont)It may seem sad to him....but it is a necessity for him and for the children. There is hope for MJ, as surely as there is for us all. God is the deliver, the healer, the comforter, the restorer. Through God all things are possible. Michael Jackson needs to reach to God, for these things....no longer to children, no longer to man. God can restore him.

human1

02/26/2003 04:18:50 PM

(cont)He also needs to hear and follow what God asks of him in the Bible (non-JW Bible). Namely and first, as much as it may hurt....and innocent or not innocent, I don't care....he needs to stop sleeping with children. God tells us not to even take on the appearance of evil. Sleeping with children is giving off the appearance of evil. It leaves room for doubt and speculation. Doubt and speculation may indeed be wrong and be evil....but they do exist, and God says we must sheild ourselves from them by not even appearing as if evil could be our habit. What will be gained by this choice, is far greater than anything he currently receives or the children currently receive from bedding together.

human1

02/26/2003 04:18:02 PM

Let me say this, I have not been a big follower of Michael Jackson. I was at times impressed with his talent, but I have never been a close follower of any celebrity...just not into that. I have love for Michael Jackson, because he is a fellow human. He is a treasure, whom God chose to create....as are all people. He was a precious little boy.....and I see that he was abused. I cannot feel sure we even know to what extent. I see that this abuse affected him as he grew, and feel that this day, what we see in him that is not right, is a result of abuse. I was abused as a child...sexually. I was deeply hurt. Only God was able to eventually heal that, and only through Jesus....the real Jesus of the Bible. I must add, not the Jehovah's Witness false teaching of who Jesus is. Michael Jackson needs to escape the JW's and ask God to heal the damage of false teaching done there.

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 03:57:16 PM

Now that I am calmer. I will tell you. There are things that legally can not be discussed. When they can be, and the whole picture is filled in, these judgements will sound as false to you as I know them to be. Because I trust in the Jesus that sees the heart, and knowing Jesus, I trust full disclosure will open the eyes. Please just do not judge any of us. You see a picture painted for you to judge, to pay attention too. Think of the child in harms way, the inner city youth you could better spend your time with. The sick child you could bring joy too. The disfigured you closed your eyes to. You would be surprised how a kind word will brighten the day, of

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 03:57:09 PM

someone who all day is judged for appearance. Maybe then you will be too busy to throw stones that hurt so. I respect all of you that your thoughts and concerns are genuine. Do not think I do not. However, I do know how badly misled this whole thing is, and by whom, and for why. I also can be at peace that the

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 03:56:45 PM

truth will come out. So be at peace and let the judgment go please, for all our sakes, the children who are really harmed and those who were, when no one listened. Because they are now and have always been worth fighting for. And, these are stories we should have heard. Dawn

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 03:37:36 PM

I guess it is a sin to be so involved in childwelfare, that you forget the value of public oppinion. So involved in finding the lost children, respect of those who would judge is fogotten. Then color me as dark as Michael Jackson, as evil and as much in sin. Because until this world sees the child in harms way, is of more value then a cell phone bill, I too, will make the same mistakes. Dawn

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 03:35:39 PM

Before I take this personally. Let me make this clear. Michael Jackson never paid me or my children, nor bribed me or my children. My ex husband was bribed to drug my child into telling the story the right way. My children were friends of Michael, because of a common concern for the welfare of children. Not to go play at his house. As a matter of fact, the most they were there is twice. And it was not for fun, it was a matter concerning child welfare, which my children and myself are still involved in. I care nothing for the music, entertainer. I know the man. If you do not you are judging actions threw a glass that gives them the appearance of evil. Is that right? My children were never in dangered by Michael, it was the extortionists who saw millions in their eyes. My family, mother, and sister, bought into the scheme as well. Knowing Mr Chandler. You are still being judgemental, of

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 03:35:33 PM

something you do not have the full picture of. Many of the other children involved, are from parents also concerned, or ill and recovering. This false judgement that includes me, and people who I respect is not fair. Bward is wrong and is judging unfairly. But, that is the way of the world isn't it. Please I just ask, no more judging, let it go, when the truth comes out, there is enough of false pride here already don't you think? You are so wrong, it hurts, and tears are flowing. Because you who do not know are still saying these things. Dawn

human1

02/26/2003 03:25:36 PM

but sthrnlvnbelle, Jesus also then said to "Go, and leave your life of sin." bward is right Jesus tells us to judge the actions of others.....clearly. That is not the same as condemning, nor gossiping, nor in anyway hurting. Sinful actions are what bring the pain....not the judgement of those actions to be wrongful. It hurts to be wrong. It sometimes hurts to sin, but often we enjoy our sin....the pain only comes when someone illuminates to us that we are sinning. The pain maker is ultimately our sinful choice, not the person who illuminates it. Bward is right.

sthrnlvnbelle

02/26/2003 02:55:55 PM

Do you remember where the Woman of Nazareth was going to be stoned? Jesus told them he without sin cast the first stone! we all have sinned do we need to get out a guage to measure how wrong one is compared to another!? What gives us the "ego" In Jesus to say that we can Judge people? I believe that MJ is wrong but I'm not going to waste my breath on it!

sthrnlvnbelle

02/26/2003 02:51:47 PM

First of all let me say that I have 2 children! I can tell you that what these ladies are feeling for these kids must be horrible!I cry for the state of this world! My position is still that we should not judge him!I feel sorry for MJ! He obviosly needed so serious therapy as growing up! Why do we need to judge this man?I for one have not been so perfect that i should cast stones! We needed judges before Jesus died on the cross- hence the old testament!

human1

02/26/2003 02:38:56 PM

I agree with you bward.

bward

02/26/2003 01:08:56 PM

Continued.... MJ has some MAJOR issues. But I wish people would stop expecting "children" to act like and "be" adults. They can't, they are not developed no matter how "grown up" they act. They are more trusting for they haven't had the life experiences adults have had. So when people like MJ suduces children as well as parents with fun stuff and in some cases offer to buy off the families just to feed his love of children, I say the ONLY way he gets away with it is because he is famous.

bward

02/26/2003 01:03:58 PM

DawnLouise, Like human1, My prayers are with you. It amazes me how some would refer to MJ as an "angel", that he may be, but certainly NOT from Heaven. At first I was like most everyone else in saying, How could the parents allow this to happen, then I realizedhow easy it is to get caught up in the celebr. status and be trusting. People have said we are not to "judge", doesn't know the Bible very well, true, we are not to judge anyone's Salvation, but as to their actions? ABSOLUTLY, it is clear we are. Otherwise we would not know what is right or what is wrong. We would not even have the need for Judges.

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 12:23:20 AM

bpeace? Left my glasses at work. again thank you for understanding, it is a gift. One all of us need. Even Michael. And honestly putting those who have suffeered threw this in your heart, is a great respect, that we need, I wish I could say, we stand alone, but can't. Dawn

DawnLouise

02/26/2003 12:19:50 AM

Thank you, And bpeac e and love to you and yours as well. We'll be ok. I always remember however alone I am, it is far lonlyer on the cross. Here you and I, we can find friendship. And that is where I find Christ always to be. :) Dawn

truthshines

02/25/2003 11:16:43 PM

My heart goes to you and your family, and all those who suffered in this case. I wish you peace and love.

DawnLouise

02/25/2003 07:52:09 PM

Who to hide the children from. I took mine away so that they could not be harmed into this, before the charges. We had to hide because of the public, the cruel things people called my oldest son, because he had been seen holding Michael's hand. I was behind them, but the mother's do not get into the pictures the press takes, or the view people see. Then, no one would listen. The lies ran away taking a course that had to be lived. Knowing the truth, I was prevented from helping when Michael needed the help the most. The whole twisted story, is long, and truthfully conveluted, full of anger jealosy and lies, and greed. Peace Dawn

DawnLouise

02/25/2003 07:47:42 PM

Truthshines, I didn't mean to come across as sarcastic, I am tired of peoples reactions when the news has been out there all the time. And at this time, my children are recovering from being drugged and taunted. As a parent I didn't see the sympathy, threw the pain, I apologize. If your child were drugged and put threw hell, I hope you would understand my lack of patience. It is hard as a parent to put your words right to people who need an explaination of something that they didn't see at the time. It is difficult to hide the panic, but I must, because people who didn't know in their sympathy demand long drawn out explainations of very painful things. They want answers because they didn't know, that have been repeated over and over. Even the late Princess Diana, stated she would believe nothing until the mother's in hiding were free to speak. So that you did not know, is your thing, and where you were at the time. Please just respect where

DawnLouise

02/25/2003 07:47:33 PM

I was. Michael's lawyers tried to get the other gentelmen looked into, Santa Barbara refused. However, they were doing nothing for myself and my children either. Read the GQ article released in 1994 if you want a detail of the kind of abuse these children were put threw. It is called Was Michael framed, and was written by someone who worked in

DawnLouise

02/25/2003 07:47:14 PM

the lawyers office hired by the Chandler's. She is at this time, trying to get the book pblished. My children and myself and many like us have been threw literal hell. That you didn't know can not be helped. However, it did not stop the screams and blood ok? That you didn't know, did not help my son learn to walk after the abuse, nor did it stop the swelling of my brain. So please take a moment to appreciate where I am coming from. Excuses are hard to take, when blood is running down your face. Again I apologize that I didnot see the sympathy in your words. They, to me, did not come near to addressing the circumstance Dawn

DaTRUTH

02/25/2003 05:53:57 PM

It is rather unjust that people who kiss children on their lips would attack someone with many childish ways for having a 'sleep-over' but not attack the parents of these children. What kind of parent would put their child with someone the parent &/or some other authority cannot vouch for; & then take MONEY to drop a CLAIM of abuse? If you put many crabs in a bucket, every time one tries to get to the top the others would pull it back down.

truthshines

02/25/2003 05:45:17 PM

Dawn, I understood that MJ was investigated for child abuse. I was not aware until I read your posts that children were abused in the process of the actual investigation of MJ. I was being sympathetic to you so kindly be less sarcastic to me. I am hearing you. Who specifically were the missing witness hiding from? "Didn't you hear and see on the news about the arrest of the gentlemen who possed as Michael Jackson, in order to lure children?" Isn't this something separate from the actual MJ investigation? Two separate incidents?

PaganGoddess247

02/25/2003 05:43:37 PM

Michael Jakson lives in the public eye. He loves the attention.

PaganGoddess247

02/25/2003 05:41:54 PM

Why is it that MJ is allowed to do anything he wants and it's perfectly ok. But if any average person or famous was to do the things that he has their kids would be taken away from them. Who in their right mind would take their newborn baby out of the hospital before any doctor can take a look to see if it's ok? And with the placenta.Granted some people eat the placenta. But that's beside the point. When my daughter was born we both stayed in the hospital for 2 days to make sure everything was ok. And a month ago when my son was born the same went for him. 2 days. Then their is when he forced his son to take a bottle. I'm sorry but you could clearly see that the baby wasn't hungry. The man doesn't know how to take care of children. If he wants to be a father then he should take a parenting class.

sthrnlvnbelle

02/25/2003 04:25:37 PM

Here is some more: If you teach your child what is good and holy then who cares what MJ and Eminem do as long as they have this backbone! We need to trust our children to do the right thing! This is what we have taught them since they were young! RIGHT?

sthrnlvnbelle

02/25/2003 04:25:19 PM

it is me again with the rest: I don't believe that it is any of my business! I believe that God will judge him the way he sees fit and as Christians we should keep ourselves out of this! Why? Well, around every corner people see us as radicals! I want to know from any of you that would go to your next door neighbors house and demand to know every wrong thing they have done and judge them on that fact! Why would we do this to someone who is on televison? Because they are public people? Yes they are public people and they do have private lives that I believe need to stay that way! My way of thinking is that if it does not affect you personally then we as Christians need to stay out of it and let God handle the rest! And we need to lead our children in the way of God so that they will not depart from it!

sthrnlvnbelle

02/25/2003 04:23:29 PM

You know as much as I have lived in a Christian home and have been a Christian I have realized that we are as judgemental as any! Do I believe that Michael Jackson has alot of issues? YES! I believe that MJ will get punishment for his sins just like anyone else! Do I believe it is my business? Well, it depends! First of all neither I nor my family like his music nor do I even watch any of the scandal on Television!

Vistronic

02/25/2003 02:00:03 PM

I agree with the Idol thing stated in story. It always amazed me the almost magical draw MJ has on people. I liked some of his work, although I never bought a cd of his or a mp3. So I guess I am not a fan in that way. What always bothers me about this story, is why? Its like why are you doing this to your self? People liked you before? Then I say what would I do with that much money? would I go off the deep end? The Idol thing is bad, the rabbi is right about the oscars being idols also. But MJ I don't hate you, get a grip and start working again, but please dont grab your croutch like you did in the super bowl.

DawnLouise

02/25/2003 08:29:59 AM

Human1 thank you, mom's feel each other over the holy spirit, and faith in the God that gave us tese unconditional loveing bundels. Truthshines, they were ABUSED and many people said, I guess you didn't hear. Didn't you hear and see on the news about the arrest of the gentlemen who possed as Michael Jackson, in order to lure children? It was on the news back in 1993. Those children were abused. Didn't you hear of the missing witnesses, the mother's who like Gavin's mom had to take our children to saftey? It was in the news. We annonomsly got a report in the news we were hiding for our children's sake. Pease define no one. Can you hold off on the judging as infintile anyone, until you explain no one. You can say you didn't hear, or realize, that could be

DawnLouise

02/25/2003 08:29:54 AM

true, and something I will accept. Is judging and having that one thing over other's that good of a feeling, that makes it easy to fail to open ones ears? It is becoming clearer and clearer from your responces here, to those who wonder what is taking so long, what is making it so hard, to end the pain and risk. Thank you for your assistance in this. Dawn

truthshines

02/24/2003 10:05:07 PM

One more thing. He is a great dancer, and he should think up new moves now. He should drop the crotch grabbing. I do not know why he started doing that. Seems infantile. Public masturbation. Not something you want children to see and imitate. Probably does not help his reputation.

jeadene

02/24/2003 06:48:46 PM

I truly beleive that Michael Jackson is a Angel in disguise. He is truely remarkable and talented. I am in hopes he understands that God is the only one to judge him, we should not pass judgement on him. Who are we to do that? God Bless you MJ. And keep giving us your worldly talented music.

truthshines

02/24/2003 05:55:20 PM

"In order to frame Michael Jackson, children were harmed." Wow, no one ever said that children were harmed in the investigation of MJ. Seems like whatever side a person takes on the investigation, children got hurt.

human1

02/24/2003 05:29:12 PM

Dawn, I think we were posting at the same moment. I did not read your last post until my post popped up. I will uphold you in prayer....as one mom to another, may God our creator guide and bless you. May truth always prevail....God bless you and keep you and yours. h1

human1

02/24/2003 05:25:56 PM

DawnL, I am praying for you, you genuinely sound as though you are going through something frightening. Thanks for sharing all you have shared, and sincerely, if you need help in your present situation....take courage, it is there. God bless, h1

DawnLouise

02/24/2003 05:25:36 PM

Human1, Thank you for your kind words. In order to frame Michael Jackson, children were harmed. My son with Cerebral Palsy was given Sodium Amytal, by my now ex husband,"to incourage him to tell the TRUTH". My son's weekness took over, he became unable to walk. My ex told me he could legally keep the children from speaking the truth, because of their age. I made the mistake of telling him he couldn't stop me. Don't do that when millions are thought to be available. Michael settled for those who were harmed, as much for the one who gave into pressure. The help I needed was not available because the audience wouldn't listen. As you see here, they are not listening still. Dawn

jkopanko

02/24/2003 05:21:19 PM

Dawn, Please don't be put off by those who are slamming you a few posts below. This is his style. Sadly, some people simply refuse to be respectful and prefer abuse the forum for stroking their own egos with malicious rants targeted against other posters, rather than contributing positively to the discussion and discussing the actual topic. Be assured that your voice, and positive outlook, is indeed very welcome here. Thank you for your insightful, responsible, and refreshing comments! Peace, JK

human1

02/24/2003 05:10:03 PM

DawnL....You repeatedly post this, and have such a sweet tone to your words. I must say, however, that your thoughts are not coming through in an understandable way. Who is keeping you and your children in harms way? and how? Do you need help? It is available.

DawnLouise

02/24/2003 05:03:43 PM

To sit in judgement of another is just plain wrong. I hope all that so, ask Gods for understanding, that in choosing to judge, you are keeping myself and my children in harms way. Nothing of the whole truth can be spoken, while those who judge refuse to hear the truth. While they choose to follow the tree of good and evil, many who have a story to tell are denied access. Follow the heart of judgement, but I tell you again you are so missled, it will be grievious when the truth is told. Just stop judging, and start listening, is all it would take, to remove yourself from participating in crimes against innocence. For your own path's a pray, ask God to teach you to love, and not judge. Dawn

happycat29

02/24/2003 03:41:44 PM

It is wrong to sleep in bed with someones elses children. MJ should ask God for help to see the way, the truth and the light.

human1

02/24/2003 03:38:46 PM

Actually jko, I am not sure if you watched everything. I did not, just one interview, and in it he said he has never had anything done. I know he later admitted to a mere 2 nose jobs. If this were indeed true, it still shows him as the one lying.....at least in light of his words in the first interview which I watched.

human1

02/24/2003 01:25:24 PM

(cont)It does appear logical that he became a person who could not say "that is enough" and continually felt the desire to request more. This happens to many people who begin having plastic surgery. I personally met a woman who fell into this cycle of "never good enough"....and "just one more surgery and I'll be happy". She has nearly wrecked her body(which was beautiful to begin with)....and sadly now receives startled stares over the results of the multiple surgeries. The problem is trying to please the "world" and live by the world's "ideal" standard. When God has given each of us the capacity to flourish as we are, and to see that being beautiful in His eyes is all we need, and the only way to correctly see our value. It is sad what humans do to one another....and the result can be mutilation, physical or emotional.

human1

02/24/2003 01:25:04 PM

I do not believe Michael was trying to look white. He has a skin condition which results in large patches of white skin....he has spoken of this. I know a very beautiful young caucasian girl who also has the same thing. It began around one side of her mouth, and then began to develop over many areas of her body. Sadly, those who do not know her look at her strangely wondering what they are seeing. The emotional result is painful. People with this skin irregularity often seek types of aid to even out the coloring differences. Even in the caucasian the color differences are very dramatic. I can understand that if Michael has this problem....he began the process of making it less obvious, resulting in a very white skin tone. It does seem that he suffers from a problem regarding multiple seekings of plastic surgery for his nose and face.

truthshines

02/24/2003 01:15:36 PM

LOL. He says he had two...that he can remember... Anyhoo, he would not be the first person, or the last, to say they did not have plastic surgery. I guess it is like not talking about how much money you make. Hey did you get a face lift? Oh no, I just took a vacation and got some much needed rest.

LoveChristandRosary

02/24/2003 01:06:02 PM

Truth - how could you or anyone else possibly think Michael's had plastic surgery? After all, he said that he's never had any. :)

truthshines

02/24/2003 12:30:44 PM

Second, I think it may bother people because it seems that the surgery was to make him look less black and more white. Which brings the uncomfortable issue of racism to the front. Now MJ probably is not trying to look more white. Not saying that. But public perception is such. Like the book "The Bluest Eye." It is uncomfortable to perceive a black man buy the crap that he is not as beautiful as a white person to the extent that he would change his face. Again, I do not know MJs actual motivations. I am just talking about public perception, and this is something uncomfortable to openly see.

truthshines

02/24/2003 12:30:38 PM

Regarding the plastic surgery, on one hand in his business, entertainers who have had plastic surgery are a dime a dozen. The list would probably be much shorter if it was on who did not have plastic surgery. I think MJs plastic surgery controversy perhaps is about something else. One, his plastic surgeons should be all be fired because they did not make him look human. Money cannot always buy the best medical care.

jkopanko

02/24/2003 10:38:19 AM

The infamous interviewer makes the malicious and wacky inferences that: 1) MJ is a nut because he has altered his appearance, and 2) MJ is a child molester because he takes an interest in helping children, and seems compelled by the magical and innocent experience of childhood and viewing the world through the eyes of childhood. (For any "Christian" attacker to jump on the "Bash Michael" bandwagon, apparently Jesus was intent on on creating a world of "child molesters" when stating, "Unless you become like these [little children] you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.") DO ANY OF THESE INSINUATIONS MAKE ANY SENSE??? Moreover, HOW CAN THESE AGGRESSIVE ATTACKS NOT BE MOTIVATED BY CYNICAL, MEANSPIRITED PARANOIA?

DawnLouise

02/24/2003 08:41:15 AM

When are those who choose to judge, and perpetuate the believe their perception of another person is a picture of that persons reality, going, going to accept the responcibility for the crimes they have perpetuated on this man, and his family. For those who are so free with their own perfection, that they can jusge another. I am advising you, you do not know any of the truth here. You are calling a man diseased with out a taste of any reality. When the truth comes out, those who perpetuated the crimes, with their judgements and repeats of false thoughts, are you going to be able to accept the responcibility, for unwittilngly , aiding and abeting

DawnLouise

02/24/2003 08:41:10 AM

a crime. You are the reason, Michael, has had to abide by the guidaqnce of lawyers, regarding his innocnce. Because your choice to hurt him, rather then learn the truth, forced, many of us who would be able to help immediatly, into hiding, and danger. Before you judge, look in the mirror, and picture the face of mother's whose children they tried to abuse into this lie. You do not

DawnLouise

02/24/2003 08:40:33 AM

have to answer to Michael, you have to answer to me. Why was the risk to my child being in harm, worth it to exploit this man. And why do you choose to judge him, and keep the danger to the children available to those still trying to frame him? Before judging try listening. Michael is moving legally towards the day when you have to answer my questions, see my children, hear the damage, the extortionists did to our lives, and give us your reasons as to why, you choose to hurt Michael and sacrifice our lives. Enjoy the peace your judging gives you, it will not be for long. My oldest is now old enough he can not be kept from testifying by the abusive parent. Many other's are coming to age as well. Be quiet and listen, before the depth of you gullability, leads to

DawnLouise

02/24/2003 08:40:03 AM

criminal accountablility. If not in the eyes of man, what of God? Your questions to why I this or that, inb regards to Michael I have this. Why did you ignore they drugged the child? Why did you ignore they drugged my child with Cerebral Palsy. Why did you ignore the damage that did to him. They picked my son with CP because you all decide what looks "gay" and would believe him, if he could be gotten to tell the story coreectly.? Don't throw your mud on my mirror. Look at yourselves, and thelife you forced me into to be able to divorce the one who tried to involve my children in extortion. My pain is a result of what you choose to pay attention too. Your choices,what you listen too. Who you choose to be. The audience you are to abusers, is hysterical, crying out about possible abuse to the tune they set, in our faces. How kind of you. Tell me why, and what it did for you, so I can understand. Dawn

eacraig

02/24/2003 05:00:18 AM

I believe that MJ who has such a mass following as well as having a massive influence on society is in bad need of some psychological counselling. I feel that he really has lost touch with reality, certainly has no boundaries and is not prepared to be accountable for his inappropriate behaviour in regard to the children he choices to mother. I would also like to add that what is in the mind of these children's parents, why are they not being responsible for their children in allowing this inappropriate behaviour to take place. I believe that Michael's mind is dis-eased and for the sake of his as well as his poor children he needs some serious help. A lot of people can lament in regard to having grown up in an abusive household situation - but when do we stop making excuses for their inappropriate behaviour. Who is going to be accountable. The adult or the child. I would like to think it would be the adult.

Shlomit

02/24/2003 03:12:25 AM

Dear Rav Boteach, I totally agree with you 100% on this one. Yosher Koach. All the Best, Shlomit L-P Tel Aviv

jgenine

02/23/2003 11:40:11 PM

Hey Vatican? You say you aren't going to judge MJ because you don't know what goes on and yet you say he needs to grow up? He has worked to support himself and others since he was what? 7? If you aren't judging him about the child abuse issue, from what does he need to grow up? From being rich? From making enough money to make surround himself with the kind of world he wants to live in? I was molested as a child and I have slept with the friends of children in my bed without anything inappropriate going on. Of course, I'm a woman and lots of people would say that makes a difference, but since I was molested by a woman, I would have to disagree. Some people live sad lives as young people and don't get to be children. Many of them grow up wanting the world to be better for other children. Michael is one of those. If changing from that is growing up, I hope he never does.

hzewd

02/23/2003 06:47:08 PM

I feel very sorry for Michael and what kind of world we live in. I don't undrstand why people are all over him to judge him. First of all I don't beleave he is abusing children or taking advantage of them. Like he said, children will love you with out judging and asking for something else in return. I my self feel very peacefull when I spend time with my nieces and other children than adults or my friends. Most people are full of geliousy and judgment. About his plasic sergery. Everybody in Hollywood does that. Why are they making it such a big deal. Doesn't people have any thing to do? I say leave him alone. It is his life he can live it the way he want to. Besides, someones living stayle is strange to someone elses.

DawnLouise

02/23/2003 06:45:33 PM

When is the last time any of us took responcibilities for the suffering of dying children? How about inner city Youth. Do we do it daily, weekly monthly, or ever. How many of us have put a portion of our income every year towards endowments, for those seeking the responcibility of an education. How many of us take the time out of our day, to speak to the inner city youth to the responcibility of furthering their education. How man see our relationship with God, as a path towards a future where the young are encompassed within the wings of the hen,Jesus, (it's in the bible.) Probably not many here. But some see the adult responcibiltiy, and their own relationship with God as a place to judge another. Isn't it just possible we are all looking threw a different part of the same smudged glass. Only his path, is hard and full of danger. Where the path to judge and hurt is easier, and has more fellows along the way.

DawnLouise

02/23/2003 06:45:26 PM

As a child abuse exposer, I question anyone who states as though they are credible his behavior without first hand evidence. That is irresponcible and a step out of the proper proticals. The first thing a child abuse investegator learns , is nothing beyond personal experience should be or can be trusted. And third party at best is always suspect. There is also, the very real risk, that the child will turn on you. It happens often, and causes many who fail to be able to sustain the pain, of judgement to retire. I myself have thrown my desk to the floor many a time, wondering if the pain I am going threw for this child is worth it. Will they ever stop going back and supporting their abuser, will they ever stop being a child that dreams their first love will love them is the real question isn't it. This is deeper then judging Michael, it is seeing ourselves as we really are. Dawn

MadyGirl1987

02/23/2003 05:42:38 PM

I agree that too often celebrities think they can live by their own rules. They think that when you have a bunch of money you can do whatever you want. This is not true. We have allowed celebrities to think like this for too long. This must stop. -Madeline

human1

02/23/2003 04:53:13 PM

One thing is clear. Michael Jackson needs a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. His family needed this when he was a boy....and Michael is in desparate need of this today. What has happened in his life is a result of being raised in a false religion...and that, one which is easily proven false....a result of having never been able to find the only true thing he needs. He needs a relationship with God through Jesus. He needs Jesus. He'll never see clearly without Jesus. I pray he will find the truth and receive all healing.

purpleku69

02/23/2003 04:50:09 PM

MJ has ceased having any relevance in my life, and the sooner everyone else feels this way, the sooner he will shut up and go away. Is he a pedophile? I don't know, but as a former child abuse investigator, his actions make me VERY suspicious. There are more ways to abuse kids than by having sex with them or beating them, you know.

nightengale1

02/23/2003 01:03:47 PM

Michael Jackson is an entertainer, and that is all. He has had life experiences that have shaped him into the person he is today. Events that may have happened to him have created his distortions, or deviations from the "normal". And being part of the community his behavior will be judged if he has broken laws that society has agreed cannot be tolerated, by him or anyone, regardless of who they are. If it is proved that he violated law, and that he has caused harm to these children by society's standards, he will face judgement either in this life, and/or the next. Just as the Catholic priests are doing now, being exposed for what they did to innocents. Rationalizing does not make it right, as the Church has discovered.

vaticanblues

02/23/2003 11:34:14 AM

I watched all the specials regarding MJ and the only thing I can say is ... the man needs to grow up!! I don't think any of us really want to grow up and face responsibility but we do. I will not judge Michael about his relationships with children as I don't know what happens behind closed doors - perhaps it is all innocent - maybe it's not. However, I wonder where the parents or guardians are? And I still question the child molestation charge - if I honestly thought my child was in danger no amount of money would make me keep quiet about it. I am not bashing Michael I just feel that as a 44 year old adult he needs to face responsibilty no matter what his child hood was. I am sure there are people out there who had worse childhoods that are now adults who accept their responsibilties.

Terrie_Carlson

02/23/2003 10:55:12 AM

I grew up with Micheal jackson, I have always loved his music. we are the same age. I try to put myself in his place and think of the circumstances he has had his whole life. One should not be breated for loveing to be with childdren. I feel that Micheal is with them in the most innocent of ways. Kids are very accepting and non-judgemental. They would love Micheal just as he is. It is sad that the media has nothing else to do than to berate ones lifestyle just because they are a bit differant and in the limelight. I too was abused as a child. A chiild never asks for that. Micheal has had an unusually hard chioldhood that has always been in the media. Please move on to something else in your lives that have to do with you and your family. Leave the judgements home and focus on yourselves. this is too all the people who have put him down. Leave the man alone to live his life.

water_lily

02/23/2003 03:54:22 AM

I feel deeply sorry for Michael Jackson. I believe his childhood has been so abnormal as to prevent a normal development into adulthood. I may be wrong, but I don't believe, after watching the documentary, that he abused the children. As the "boy who never grew up" he came across to me as an asexual being. His response to questions put to him of a sexual nature was somewhat blank, as though he had no personal experience of this side of life. The documentary has been sensationalised ie. "MJ shares his bed with children" implies that he was in the bed with them, which he states he was not. As for his insecurity over his personal appearance, he has clearly been preyed upon by plastic surgeons who see him as the goose that lays the golden eggs. Their behaviour is abhorrent in the extreme. I hope that MJ finds some peace in this lifetime, but as long as such people surround him, I fear this is unlikely.

jgenine

02/23/2003 01:54:08 AM

For mommy, I'm with Michael. If there were to be no children in the world, I wouldn't want to be here either. Most adults are judgemental and have dirty minds. Just look at how many people who have never met Michael Jackson believe whatever publicity they want to believe and condemn here. For jkopanko, I agree. I just said today to my husband (after overhearing a conversation about MJ in a store) that American's have such comfortable lives that they have to stress over a perfect stranger has had plastic surgery. And as far as the doctor who is telling the world what surgery he thinks MJ had, it is a breach of medical ethics to divulge a persons medical record to ANYONE let alone the entire world. Why would you believe someone doesn't respect his own profession enough to uphold the laws concerning it?

DawnLouise

02/22/2003 11:54:34 PM

Don't we all. Anyone who doesn't know that, needs to spend sometime from their audiences point of view. However, we are free to hide from it. So, it is ok to be cold to someone who is not. That is just Human Nature. Dawn

wvernon

02/22/2003 11:31:42 PM

MJ needs some serious psychological help.

laurenrod

02/22/2003 05:35:38 PM

I feel sorry for Michael, and the fact that he missed out on any kind of real childhood. But I have to wonder if he doesn't cause all of this contraversy on purpose. For example...I was at my sisters house yesterday, and she said "hey guess what album I just bought" she put it on and it was "Thriller". she bought it because she felt bad for him. I wonder how much sales have gone up for Michael since this interview. Regardless, I think he is a confused individual with a big heart, who never had the chance to grow up.

jkopanko

02/22/2003 04:51:32 PM

I love it how every person wants the right to butt into other people's lives and control them, to insure homogeneity Apparently people do not have enough to worry about in their own lives (possible due to a lack thereof?), and feel the need to entertain themselves by critiquing others on the basis of their differences from themselves. Why don't all you fascists just GROW UP already and treat people with the respect and basic good-will they deserve as human beings? And as hard as this lesson might be to digest: YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS INTRUDING INTO THE LIVES OF OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE OF YOUR PETTY, IDLE, ADOLESCENT INSTINCT TO CRITIQUE THOSE WHO ARE UNLIKE YOURSELF.

mommy521

02/22/2003 11:00:22 AM

experienced some form of abuse this is not a perfect world or society that we live in. Michael lacks the social skills that we take for granted but he can not be so nieve to believe that he can make his own rules there must be accountability for your actions god gave man free will to choose I only hope and pray for him that he chooses wisely.

mommy521

02/22/2003 10:57:37 AM

MJ stated in the interview that if he was told that there were no children left in the world he would kill himself or as he put it that would be the end for him he would just jump off a balcony what does that say about him? He also stated that the children are an inspiration to him It is easy to see the world through the eyes of a child but he is not a child he is a grown man of 44 and granted his childhood was not the best but whose was we all have

mommy521

02/22/2003 10:52:17 AM

Granted there is only one problem i personally had and that was the issue with allowing children to sleep in his bed now from the interview the parents of these children are allowed to be on the grounds of neverland and stay in the guest house but how in gods name could you allow your child to sleep in the bedroom of a grown man regardless of who or what he is. This to me is totally inappropriate without a doubt. Not to say that anything is going on sexually with these children but the man is 44 years old for crying out loud he is not a child this is not a sleep over that you would allow your child to go to if this person was not famous. granted MJ has fought for many causes in the name of children and god bless him for doing so but there must be line drawn for the safety and well being of these same children that he is working so hard to help feed, protect.

mommy521

02/22/2003 10:51:58 AM

Well it was very interesting reading all the postings on MJ and what this rabbi shmuley had to say and to each his own. So here I go adding my three cents I watched the original airing only of MJ on abc and after the program was over I could only feel compassion for this person who had been mislead into believing that Mr.Bashir or what ever his name is could give a fair portrayal of his life over an 8 month period.

DawnLouise

02/22/2003 07:47:59 AM

Michael stated in the Bashir interview, he does not invite them to his room. They want to sleep with him. He then said he offered the bed, and slept in blankets on the floor. Children excited about a day of fun, want it to continue. And remember the Culkins children were a lot younger, and their parents were going threw a rough time. He did not go into detail, just the fun they had. Not what we now know of what the Culkin childrens life was like. Michael is a very polite human being, who does not handle other peoples guilt trips well, and can't stand to hurt anyone. That is something we all could be aware of with other's. There are

DawnLouise

02/22/2003 07:47:53 AM

those amongst us, whose childhoods were a bit rougher then our own, who found the little games we play hurtful. And, their life is led to avoid the little weedilings and things we do to get our way. The things we do bec ause everyone does it, to get our seat on the bus, sticks like needles and pins in the hearts of some people. When we ignore that, we are not allowed to judge how they deal with life. Before judging, try listening. Dawn

ldycheroke

02/22/2003 04:22:45 AM

Michael Jackson has my sympathy, but what he needs is some friends who will keep him real. He is so insulated and surrounded by people who cater to his whims and stay silent about his behavior--or worse, condone it. He needs to be reminded that he is subject to the same rules, laws, and morality as the rest of humanity. He needs to be accountable to someone who can help keep him grounded. As for the kids, I wonder how he will relate to his own kids when they grow up? He seems to have problems relating to adults.

bearski

02/22/2003 12:19:41 AM

I have no sympathy for this has been diva. He just wants the media attention that has deserted him as his career goes downhill.Just go away Michael!

L314b

02/21/2003 10:28:41 PM

The issue with Micheal Jackson is this - Why do children need to sleep in HIS BED with him ? Why can't these children have their own bed in their own room ? NObody has answered that question. Did the kids say they wanted to be in Micheals bed or did he ask them to be in his bed ? It's not normal. Think about it from this view..if your neighbor did the same thing with the kid down the street..what would happen ? so why are we (society) making all these excuses for Micheal Jackson ? something is wrong with the man.

missmiss6

02/21/2003 07:35:28 PM

People still haven't learned what the media's job is...and Michael Jackson has been their biggest target. My heart goes out to Michael Jackson...no one knows what has REALLY happened except Michael and the boy. Heres a thought. Michael's dad was so hard on him as a kid, he was thrown into the spotlight at a very young age with tremendous pressure and has continued at the pace for so long that he missed out on some important aspects of life that we all experienced. Maybe Michael can only relate to children...do you see what happens to him everytime he comes in contact with adults, he is always ridiculed and hasseled. Leave the guy alone, he probably wouldn't judge you.

DawnLouise

02/21/2003 07:17:08 PM

To all who want to think Michael is a child molester,you are wrong. Before you judge, wait, the truth is about to come out, and the appearcne of evil will be in your hand. Unless you are a first hand witness to child molestation, I suggest, let it be. First hand witnesses of his innocence, are really tired of being shouted down by people who really only know what they know from sources outside. That includes the family involved, if their side is all you persnally know. Then let it be. It is really tiresome arguing with people who only listened to them, to those of us who actually experienced all people involved. If your knowledge of wrong doing comes from tabloids, newspapers, magazines, and news reporters. It has really gotten old, the way those who choose to follow lies,

DawnLouise

02/21/2003 07:17:01 PM

won't even pay attention to someone who was actually there. If I could help encpourage the life of a dying child, by giving him my bed, while I slept on the floor, I would do it without question. You would not, I do not judge you as cold hearted, why do you get to judge him as having a need for counseling. As one of the people who assured him, people were fair if given a chance, you bet I am eating crow. Dawn

ihs1947

02/21/2003 04:18:13 PM

rabbi schmuley is a media whore. he will do anything to stay in the limelight. watching him ride michael jackson's coat tails makes me sick. almost as sick as the thought of him sleeping with boys.

DawnLouise

02/21/2003 04:16:28 PM

We lost the idea long ago that Michael Jackson is a person, fraught with doubt, and pursuaded by emotion like any of us. No one who sits in judgement, has ever had their life as scrutinised, nor would they have too. What we think about Michael, or believe we know, is irrevelant to the truth. And that just seems to be too hard of a fact for some people to take. Dawn

StarlaLovestheLord

02/21/2003 03:27:08 PM

I tnink there are only 3 beings who know what really happened in 1993: Michael, the boy, and God. God will sort it out and is the only one who should sit in judgement.

incoming03

02/21/2003 03:20:49 PM

I believe that most of his good doing is an honest act but I also belive that he loves attention and all is part of an act, he pays all these people to participate on his side shows, the worst of it is that he is using the children to do this. Who knows he might have some sort of fetish for kids..and maybe somehow he did cross the line. I tell you this I would not let my kid stay/sleep over at his house without me being present. Right now I feel that Michael is acting so ignorant..almost like acting out..c'mon what does he really want? to be normal..he's a celebrity..if he can't deal with that, he should quit and try something else. What does his family say about all this? or any of his real friends who really do know him?

LoveChristandRosary

02/21/2003 03:06:21 PM

Jk don't you think you're being a tad inconsistent here in your defense of children?

mbwalz

02/21/2003 01:50:51 PM

Michael Jackson seems to be spiraling into some sort of psycholocial decline. He has lots of bagage from an abnormal childhood. This poor man needs love, support, and psychological help. I feel very sorry for him for many reasons. But I also feel badly for those children; both the one's he parents and the ones he sleeps with. However, even Michael Jackson isn't above having Child Welfare Services check him out. The ultimate safety is necessary for these children. And then he must get some help.

jkopanko

02/21/2003 01:01:23 PM

I can't believe people are so banal and prudish that they are actually willing to let a person be assasinated in this way, why? Not because he's actually HURT anyone in any way... not because he hasn't made exemplary efforts to HELP people... but because he is DIFFERENT, and because circumstances within his life are DIFFERENT from that of most people. This is like the ignorant torch-wielding mob of villagers pursuing the kindhearted "monster" to destroy him. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. SUPRISE, SUPRISE. MJ HAS HURT NO ONE: GET OVER YOUR PETTY BOURGEOIS SNOBBERY ALREADY AND LET PEOPLE BE. NEWSFLASH: People will not always be the way you expect; and people will not alwasy be like those in your environment you are accustomed to. YOU are the MONSTERS however, when you act on paranoia and attack them for YOUR inability to handle HUMAN DIVERSITY.

LoveChristandRosary

02/21/2003 12:58:03 PM

I think Michael Jackson, who didn't experience a normal childhood, is trying to enjoy it now.

carolynk

02/21/2003 11:56:04 AM

I believe that Micheal J is a very spiritual person. I believe his heart is in the right places, that his music is testimony to this. I believe MJ is desperately searching for love (like many people) and finds it in the hearts and minds of younger people - due to the fact thier minds/hearts are not filled with judgements and criticisms. I do not believe MJ has every molested any children. I think he has "baggage" from his childhood that haunts him today. I feel MJ is a person that one can look at him and it is easy to see his energy from his soul and heart. Maybe MJ is in the wrong era of time for him?

fmss

02/21/2003 11:37:01 AM

I believe people think just because a person is famous, every minute of their lives belongs to us. It doesn't!! No one could standup under the pressure the press puts on the people they go after. And what about us, the public, we wait like a pack of hungrey animals for each new bit of news. And of course we have an opinion on everythng. I bet there is one thing we all agree on, and that is thank God we aren't THAT famous and have to try and live under the scrutiny of the press and the noisy public. I feel sorry for Michael Jackson, he's been the bread winner for his family since he was what - five! I also feel sorry for his kids, they have absolutly no chance for a normal life. Maybe he should stop "having" them and start adopting some.(That, of course, is just my opinion).

KIND6004

02/21/2003 11:33:13 AM

Most psychologists do not think that having a parent allow a child to continuously sleep in their bed is healthy, after a certain age. So most certainly it is not healthy for someone elses to be allowed to sleep in another adult males bed is not healthy there is a posting on a web site of the statements given by the child, who dropped the legal action after family received approximately 25 million dollar settlement. There are other more healthy things micheal could be doing for children. Many black children can not afford costly medical treatment, and or adults, and seniors, he could set up a fund to pay for some of these procedures. He could perform for some organization, and raise enough money each year for such medical and other treatment. Micheal parenting situation does not seem healthy for his kids (face masks etc) or other families kids allowing them to (sleep in his bed) He could send some food and other food supplies to poor families in tennesse, mississippi, alabama florida.

bbdh

02/21/2003 10:47:26 AM

BS"D 3. He doesn't have sex orgies with the kids. Don't even TRY to insinuate that. And Michael is not a traditional Jew that he needs to adhere to the norms and standards of traditional Jewish behavior with regards to "avoiding even the appearance of evil." 4. This is getting out of hand. Bashir and Walters should publicly apologize for personally contributing to this personal attack on Michael and his family - as should many news anchors throughout the US. Let's not be like them. Let's stop the insanity here and now. We wouldn't like others to do it to us.

bbdh

02/21/2003 10:44:25 AM

BS"D 1. Jewish idolatry is NOT what is at issue here. Therefore the argument from Judaism is unjust. The only "idol" here is the popularization of the work of a talented person - Michael. The allusions to Jewish proscriptions against idolatry are disingenuous. 2. Michaels behavior, also, is not subject to Jewish Law. How he conducts himself in his own house is none of the rabbi's (or anybody's) business. If he behaves inappropriately, there are plenty of people who can get on his case and the general public should not be involved until after the establishment of facts IMHO. Slander, culture gap, and gossip are not legitimate grounds for a moral judgement of any kind.

bbdh

02/21/2003 10:34:27 AM

BS"D I agree that Rabbi B. appears to be taking this situation completely out of context. Had I read the article as an attack on Michael, I would be as angry at the Rabbi as I am at others of Michael's detractors. What is happening here appears to be the Rabbi's own introspection is being projectied on Michael. That is a grievous error on the part of a legtimate rabbi. But as this particular Rabbi lives in the media limelight, it is not surprising. My praise was fore his own generalities concerning his own standards. If his article was intended to blast Michael, it obviously points more fingers at the rabbi then the intended "target."

normajean2

02/21/2003 10:20:19 AM

Sorry, I meant them, let his kids play with other kids.

normajean2

02/21/2003 10:19:42 AM

I didn't get to see the special last night but as a parent, I have always maintained that I would never accept money for the abuse someone inflicted on my child. I have never believed the allegations. I know on the origianl program people were blasting him for taking his kids to the zoo, then you have the Rabbi saying he needs to take them to the park, let him play with other children. The poor guy can't win for losing. When are the media going to take responsibility for hounding not just the celebrity but their children as well. I think we should have chastized them for what they did to the children at the zoo, not Michael for trying to give them a normal life. Yes, this man is eccentric, but until you've walked in his shoes.........

jinxcat

02/21/2003 09:44:47 AM

"...sin is sin ...Evil begats evil." What are you talking about? Last time I looked it was not a sin to sleep next to someone, or to sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag while they are in your bed.

countrylady9

02/21/2003 08:46:14 AM

1Thess:5:22 "Keep away from even the appearance of evil". What Michael has stated himself, certainly has "the appearance of evil" but, before we go blaming anyone for anything, it is crucial that we examine our own lives. Jesus said, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." and they all turned and walked away. John 8: 7-8. I think it highly unlikely that anyone here would be in the same boat with Micheal on this issue, but sin is sin regardless of what it consists of, and we are all guilty of that! I am not in defence of Michael's behaviour. It doesn't take a trained mind to see the problem's root cause. Evil begats evil. Add to it the fact that Jehovah's Witness is a cult. The very place Michael went for spiritual guidance is a cult! The man is misguided. Satan has him so blinded by his fame, wealth, and permissive society around him that it is no wonder he is the mess he appears to be. Friends, as Christians, let's do something good for Michael. Remember him in prayer!

sandcat

02/21/2003 08:40:19 AM

that's it shmuley....kick him when he's down. it's opportunists like you who have destroyed this gifted man. I find it amazing that you have the gall to step forward and speak now on his wierdness. For the last three years as you've been parading around with him commanding much larger audiences than you would ever on your own, you did not think he was wierd? It's just now? Nothing is new. I guess your ride was over. You are a parasite of the worst kind.

bbdh

02/21/2003 08:35:00 AM

BS"D Congratulations to Rabbi B. for doing this article and B'Net for posting it. I have a working theory that the abuse of the Jacksons by various less credible elements of the press is directly related to the revenue generated by such popular slander and denigration of their relative success. If this is true, all we need to do to stop this terrible public persecution of the Jacksons and those associated with them is to stop purchasing the media tabloids that resort to this evil, pull our advertising from those that won't, and decry such slander in public when it is first utterred in our presence. Also kudos for Maury Povich on his hosting of the balanced version of the public interview on FOX.

mamagaddy

02/21/2003 07:16:38 AM

I believe in GOD not G-d as repeatededly mentioned in this article by whoever edited, typed and released it. I believe that a parent's role is to be the nurturing pillar of the family unit - this includes both parents either married or divorced. A child requires love and lots of it! A parent's involvement with their child determines how that child reacts with the world. The parents who allow their children who sleep in Michael's bed are obviously blinded by Michael's image and are very trusting to a "stranger". I don't like to speak of Michael Jackson as an idol cause to me he is not. To me he exists just like you or me an average ordinary person with some issues. But who doesn't have issues these days - call it misguided or whatever you will. There are professionals who can help with issues, perhaps one day Michael will aknowledge and accept the advice and help he has been given. All we can do is pray for him.

wizeguy

02/21/2003 06:49:27 AM

I must admit Michael has portrayed himself in a bad light. But i believe his intentions were always innocent. I think someone needs to make him realise AND understand why people criticise him so much, as i get the impression he doesnt fully comprehend. All the Rabbi has managed to prove with this article is that in Michael`s situation it is nearly impossible to find a real adult friend that he can trust, maybe thats why he has turned to the innocence of children untainted by the media world.

delfentor

02/21/2003 04:32:59 AM

I am a little confused about this whole thing. The focus seeems to be on Michael not the parents of the children. Did he do this behind their backs? Or was it with their consent? Do the parents care? What do the parents of these children have to say about this garbage? I personally wouldn't let any child be alone with Michael in the first place. Parents need to be more involved in their chlidrens lives.

frenznhiplaces

02/21/2003 04:28:50 AM

First of all, I believe that Rabbi Shmuley Boteach carries the word well and deserves more respect than shown here. From my perspective Michael is a sensitive soul who suffered immeasurable abuse. His attachment to children is his process of healing. My greatest fear is that sexual predators would use Michael's behaviour as a lure to entice children to their beds. I believe anyone elevated to this level of fame could leave this world centuries of opportunity to learn better how to parent. I am also concerned for the exposure his children face. Michael has gone to great lengths to ensure to not recreate abuses he experienced. However his contact with his own pure naivety pushes him to “Peter Panishly” act out. I pray he sees this behaviour and hopefully the camera's eye will act as a catalyst to help him grow up, even just a little and act more responsibly. I think that the good Rabbi has nailed this one on the head re: idol status.

Marianah

02/21/2003 03:38:20 AM

I don't believe that Michael Jackson did anything wrong with the children, but there is one incident that I find a bit scary and irresponsible. He almost dropped his baby and said it was nothing. I can understand that a person gets into a moment of enthusiasm, but still there's a limit to it. I don't believe that he put his baby's life in jeopardy understanding the possible consequences, but still that was wrong. That's only my opinion about the issue and I somehow feel that we have no right to discuss about it, because we are talking about a person we don't know here that has suffered so much because of the public attention.

Marianah

02/21/2003 03:38:06 AM

I've grown at home where looks and image was very important. Where you had to be as adult as you could and excel in everything. I know at least something that Mr. Jackson has gone through. I've had acne and I'm a shy person myself. I never saw my parents hug, kiss or hold hands. They hardly hugged us, usually they were either drinking, yelling to each other or braking our plates. So, I can understand why Mr. Jackson feels that it's so important to touch children and give them a supportive home. I have no doubt that the documentary I saw was extremely edited one. I wondered myself how Mr. Bashir seemed to be so unloyal to Jackson. Jackson even showed Bashir his secret place that nobody knew about himself. And what does Bashir do? He blames and gives a wrong view of the case.

kirstanbrown

02/20/2003 11:36:43 PM

I think Michael held back for way too long on how he was abused by his father. He still didnt really say how wrong it was. He knows as well as everyone else that he's a strange character and I think "the rabbi" doesn't fall into the category of normal people that Mike needs surrouding himself with. I think Michael sees the world as surreal as he can under so much pressure to perform. The "rabbi", just like all other pulicists, puts Michael's EVERY ACTION uder too close a microscope. I totally disagree withnthe honoring our parents part, too.

truthshines

02/20/2003 11:21:54 PM

Jackson human side did come out in the second special. I never thought I would be coming to his defense. I was not interested in him. Comparing Povich and Bashir, Povich seemed the more balanced of the two. Bashir seemed to have joined the old press sensationalism in the end, though it seemed to want to bring out a more balanced picture of Jackson. In the end Bashir did not add nothing new, only another tabloid story, much like this rabbi's article. Jackson's life clearly is not normal, child stars lives usually are not. Add shyness, plus child abuse, a skin disease which cannot be hidden working in an industry obsessed with looks, and add super success which makes it impossible to live a regular life and difficult to meet people interested just in you not your image. Perhaps his reclusiveness is an emotionally healthy response given those pressures. Perhaps creating a more innocent, simpler world like he seems to have done on his Neverland property is a way to keep his sanity.

jkopanko

02/20/2003 11:06:07 PM

Jesus, what a Judas: This person is supposed to be one of Michael's closest and most trusted friends, and he publicly publishes articles slamming him while he's being attacked on EVERY SIDE by media vulture and professional leaches out for blood? My opinion of the "good rabbi" is completely shot. I was even going to buy one of his books. No more. What a weasel.

bird

02/20/2003 10:38:12 PM

I saw the footage tonight on Fox that had not been shown in the original interview. In these outtakes Jackson sounded like a much more normal person than in the earlier interview. It also showed the interviewer Martin Bashir praising him lavishly to his face, in contrast to his negative ABC commentary. I actually felt sorry for Michael and the way the media have hounded him, which I never expected to feel.

mightymountaingorilla

02/20/2003 10:36:15 PM

Personally, I don't think Michael Jackson is the kind of person who would do anything like child molestation. However, I do find his behavior awfully strange. I think he needs a serious psychological evaluation. Anyone who considers himself to be the living incarnate of Peter Pan has problems. (By the way, I don't care what any religion says...if you have been abused by your parent to the extent of psychological damage, you do NOT need to honor him/her.)

truthshines

02/20/2003 10:31:30 PM

With "friends" like these who needs enemies. I think the rabbi revealed more about himself than he did about Michael Jackson. He is just one more "tabloid" writer. Maury Povich is a more balanced and fair reporter. More of you in journalism should pay attention to this reporter's professionalism.

limelight

02/20/2003 09:03:42 PM

I honestly do not think that this poor man would intentionally harm a child, but I do think that he needs serious psycological help.

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