Do_unto_others

06/25/2007 03:34:39 PM

joey39, I'm curious why you "sincerely believe that homosexuals can escape from their lifestyles", when later you typed that you "do not believe that a homosexual person, Christian or otherwise, should be forced to change their sexual orientation. To me, it would be like trying to convert a straight person into a homosexual person. It just isn't possible!" I don't believe it is a "lifestyle". God gives us lives. You admit that you "overcame homosexual lust". Is lust a lifestyle? Are you no longer atracted to people of the same sex? Or did you see the difference between lust and love? Curious minds really do want to know. "and become God-centered, God-loving, God-fearing Christians" Some of us gay people already ARE.

Do_unto_others

06/25/2007 03:28:54 PM

And now to address the late Mr. Falwell's sayings... What he preaches/preached gives license to those who do actual physical violence to us. What he says and does (said and did, now) IS spiritual violence against God's gay and lesbian children. He DID blame gays for 9/11. He did blame gays for Hurricane Katrina. Such utterings cause us to be seen as 'less than' and is the reason why Matt Sheppard died.

Do_unto_others

06/25/2007 03:25:39 PM

willong, "Scripture is plain and clear about homosexuality. It is sinful to engage in homosexual acts." Um, they are NOT one and the same. See below for explanation. Feel free to condemn homosexual rape, homosexual lust, and homosexual temple prostitution - the specific acts that are actually condemned in Scripture - and you won't get much of an argument. When you conflate the state of being homosexual with these quite specific acts, expect to get an argument.

Do_unto_others

06/25/2007 03:20:05 PM

Renee132, "Homosexuality is sin just as raping or stealing, or coveting. Our reactions to these sins as human beings and society, however, is what makes one seem more damaging than the other." What makes your post damaging is equating committed, loving, consenting, adult, human relationships to rape, theft and coveting. Sin (at least the ones you list) causes harm. My love does not.

Do_unto_others

06/25/2007 03:18:00 PM

"but I will not hate or hurt a person guilty of that sin" What if we don't see it as a "sin"? Imo, it is both hurtful and hateful to describe another person that way, especialy in view of the fact that we're told not to judge others. "I do pray that ... will turn to God." What make you think we haven't? "If anyone will just ask and let God, He will work wonders with and within you." I asked God a gazillion times to make me non-homosexual, and God never worked such a "wonder" - in fact, God never made a mistake in the first place.

Do_unto_others

06/25/2007 03:17:46 PM

OY!!! "I know that homosexuality is wrong (bible based) and that we should love homosexuals also, just not their homosexual actions." Homosexuality is the state of being homosexual, that is, being attracted to one of the same sex, WHETHER OR NOT ONE ACTS ON IT. You cannot say in one sentence that you "love homosexuals" and in the next say that you hate their existence (their state of merely 'being'). "But sometimes I find it difficult to see two men holding hands in public or openly admitting they're gay." Get over it. Sometimes I find it upchuck-making to see 2 betterosexuals making out on the subway, or - GASP! - openly admitting that they're straight ;{O) It just kind of repulses me, and I can't help but look away with a disgusted look on my face. "I may not like the sin of homosexuality" See above. I believe you mean to refer to certain homosexual ACTS, not the state of one being homosexual, no? more...

Joey39

05/25/2006 04:12:32 AM

Jerry Falwell is right: Christians should never bash homosexuals, and homosexuals should never bash Christians. Plain and simple. Jesus preached love, not hate, to ALL of mankind, not just to Christians, so violence and hate is definitely wrong. However, while I do sincerely believe that homosexuals can escape from their lifestyles and become God-centered, God-loving, God-fearing Christians, as a Christian myself who just recently overcame homosexual lust (I've been sexually abused, and I've always felt more masculine than feminine as a woman), I do not believe that a homosexual person, Christian or otherwise, should be forced to change their sexual orientation. To me, it would be like trying to convert a straight person into a homosexual person. It just isn't possible! But I do not believe that homosexuality is in our genes any more than hetrosexuality is, either. I believe that it is nurture, not nature, that makes you gay or straight.

Pazit

06/20/2005 10:11:27 PM

Oh my gosh, Godfactor! You live in Manor? I live in Austin. Too cool!

Pazit

06/18/2005 11:17:07 PM

I am also transgender and bisexual, I am also celebate until I get married. I believe that being gay or trangender is not a sin but having sex outside of marriage is and acting on these temptations is. You sound like a very moral person to ME.

Pazit

06/18/2005 11:13:23 PM

(I really don't know why some feel the need to write G-d like it is a dirty word.) Many Jews write G-d with a dash as a sign of RESPECT, not to denote it as a 'dirty' word. G-d's names (and, really, this isn't one) are not written out completely to avoid possible desecration. For instance, what if someone were to print out these posts, and then shred them for a litter box or use them to line their bird cage? In the future, please ask why someone does something rather than assume the reason. Thanks!

Godfactor

06/18/2005 03:24:53 PM

I am also transgender and bisexual, I am also celebate until I get married. I believe that being gay or trangender is not a sin but having sex outside of marriage is and acting on these temptations is. Please don't tell me that you can't live without sex. You'll live and you won't get any nasty STD's.

Godfactor

06/18/2005 03:18:30 PM

We are all sinners. There is not one person on this Earth today that is not a sinner and who has not fallen short of the Glory of God (I really don't know why some feel the need to write G-d like it is a dirty word.) As far as Christians not keeping the Sabbath holy some try to but sometimes employers require work on Saturday. Paul says in Romans that one should not hold at fault another who chooses another day to keep the Sabbath. I do not work on Sundays mainly because that is the day I have off most. I also pray for forgiveness when or if I must work on Sunday.

PADDY1989

12/02/2004 03:56:35 PM

... sorry my last paragraph was not clear. I meant that an unmarried heterosexual who indulges his/ her inclinations is just as sinful as a homosexual who indulges theirs.

PADDY1989

12/02/2004 03:55:22 PM

"ex-gay"??? What on earth is that all about? It is not "ex-gays" that have accepted Christ it is gays. You CAN be homosexual and a good Christian because homosexual means one with homosexual inclinations NOT one who engages in homosexual sex. So there seems to be a whole attitude of gays as automatically sinful which is not at all Christian. And on the subject of "ex-gays", no, 9 times out of 10 gays cannot change thier sexuality and yes, God still loves them and no, He doesn't care that they still have this inclination because it is no different to that of an unmarried heterosexual as both relationships are equally sinful. peace

page0001

07/22/2004 05:33:56 PM

As a Christian I would have to say the Bible can absolutely be reinterpreted, I've got about 20 reinterpretations from the Old King James down the line through the New International Version. Each one does convey different meaning through different word choice and sentence arrangement. Though it is the Word of God, Man has definitly had a hand in it!

Willlong

10/28/2003 02:53:29 PM

Your point about 're-interpretation' actually addresses the problem of misinterpretation. Scripture is plain and clear about homosexuality. It is sinful to engage in homosexual acts. To 're-interpret this any other way is just rejecting scripture and putting your own desires down on the page over G-d's word. This has, and continues to be the fact, from Judaism, through the 1st century, on through to today.

Tryingmyhardest

10/01/2003 05:19:01 PM

I disagree with Jerry Falwell, and I think that the verses that he uses to condemn homosexuals can all be re-interpreted so as not to condemn homosexuals, but I applaud his courage in meeting with people who disagree with him and in asking his own side to renounce violence.

ts4utoo

08/30/2003 02:05:19 AM

HOW TIRING is this old withered argument and FEAR about gay people! I'm gay. I was born this way. I LOVE being gay...And I find it overwhelming that the people with wisdom, understand that being GAY is just different than being straight and that's it! Far(t)well is psychologically a mess. He breeds this with the ones who won't study the origins of words and what the history of the bible is REALLY about. Yes, there are many people who are just like him...but, I find it just plain BORING, that rather than their studying where words in Hebrew and Greek came from and how they were completely MISCONSTRUED and mistranslated in the bible, they just go along with what they read... There's no excuse for ignorance and yet I read it over and over again within these boards... Educate yourselves! It's as easy as typing in "Arsenokoites and Malakos" on the internet and then, you just might be surprised to learn how the bible has been so mistranslated..

Renee132

08/29/2003 03:20:02 AM

I don't think one sin is really worse than another. Homosexuality is sin just as raping or stealing, or coveting. Our reactions to these sins as human beings and society, however, is what makes one seem more damaging than the other.

walleke

07/17/2003 07:55:43 PM

The bible, in the "Old" testament condemns homosexuality as sin. The same "Old" Testament commands against breaking the Sabbath day. Christians congregate on Sunday, the Lord's day, not the Sabbath day, and Christians do not keep the Sabbath day holy. The Catholic church made Sunday the day of congregation to emphasize that the "Old" Testament was invalid and superceded by the "New" Testament. This was made official and explicit at the First Ecumenical Council at Nicenae in 325, although the concept goes back at least 200 years earlier. Thus, no Christian has the moral authority to condemn homosexuality, or post the ten commandments which they break faithfully. Christianity condemns both Jews and homosexuals, but each for reasons that contradict the other.

mader

07/16/2003 06:20:26 PM

godsbethie, I think you need to reaexamine your attitude. Did Jesus look away from the woman at the well with a disgusted look on His face? No, he helped her. You asked for a suggestion - I think you need to pay more attention to the sins in your own heart, and less to the sins of other people.

godsbethie

06/13/2003 03:17:15 AM

I know that homosexuality is wrong (bible based) and that we should love homosexuals also, just not their homosexual actions. But sometimes I find it difficult to see two men holding hands in public or openly admitting they're gay. It just kind of repulses me, and I can't help but look away with a disgusted look on my face, in the same way I do when I see young unmarried girls pregnant or open about their sex lives. Any advice?

sandycowgirl

05/26/2003 03:22:50 PM

Hatred is not of God, but of the devil. Jesus clearly tells us that we are to love one another. People who are hurtful and violent towards other people are wrong. I may not like the sin of homosexuality, but I will not hate or hurt a person guilty of that sin. I do pray that they will see the error of their ways and that they will turn to God. If anyone will just ask and let God, He will work wonders with and within you.

helenann0405

05/10/2003 03:46:59 PM

The Bible has been interperted by all of us ... What we believe in our hearts as well as our souls is all we have to know. You cant convince anyone of there beliefs. I applaud the efforts of anyone who stands against violence.

wvernon

03/19/2003 02:10:15 AM

Sounds like a castrated Bible to me.

dutlass

06/25/2002 12:24:42 AM

Jerry Falwell is about as much a "reverend" as the things my cats leave in their litter box. It's time to stop using an outdated Bible along with a King James dictionary. The prestigious Oxford University has published an Annotated Bible, 3rd edition that contains no references to homosexuality.

scott77

06/04/2002 11:54:36 PM

I believe we should not judge the people outside the church because they have not experienced a relationship with Jesus and are not aware of there sin. I believe we should only deal with christians in the church who know it is wrong and have been christians long enough to know it is wrong.

txstate2001

04/19/2002 05:00:13 PM

Well if Jerry Falwell and the 700 Club would stop the hate towards gays that may help. I was embarressed to be a christians when at Mathew Shepherds funeral, so called christians had taken the time to make posters saying "Mathew is in Hell", "YOur going to HELL", etc. I have excepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. I lived the gay lifestyle for 20 yrs. Homosexuality has become the scape goat for all the problems. When Pres. Bush talked with Gay Republicians, the Log Cabin (I think is the name of the group), he was condemned. But when He spoke to a known LIER and THEIF, even posed for pictures and excepted gifts. NOT ONE WORD WAS SAID! It wasn't blamed for the severe weather and distruction (Pat Robinson speaking in Florida). The Lord has helped me leave the gay lifestyle. Some are hurting their brothers and sister in Christ. My sheild of faith has the arrows from beleivers. God bless you.

Nate_25

02/16/2002 03:04:19 PM

Jerry Falwell is a terrorist.

Carrey8

02/03/2002 12:36:56 AM

Falwell, not known for possessing a strong command of facts, calls on gays to "stop their assaults on Christians.” Of course, he couldn't provide a single example, so what exactly are these "assuaults" he's complaining about? Are gay and lesbian Americans calling for laws that deny Christians the right to marry? Are they calling for the removal of Christians from the military? Are they endorsing laws that forbid Christians from adopting, or advocating the removal of children from Christian homes? Are they beating to death Christian college students in Wyoming? Are they picketing the funerals of heterosexual Christians – say, women who have died in childbirth (the result of heterosexual sex practices) or at the hands of their Christian husbands – with signs that say “The Wages of Heterosexuality is Death”? Give us an example of one of these "assualts", Jerry.

timothy5

12/08/2001 12:55:40 AM

William Countryman writes in his book, Dirt, Greed, and Sex (etc.) that a "confusion of kinds" creates the ritual impurities discussed in the Holiness Code (see esp. pgs. 26-27) If things which do not belong together are mixed, this is considered polluting. This logic is extended to homosexual activities. If a man lays with a male as he lays with a woman,(Leviticus 20:13) the man who assumes the female role in intercourse embodies this combination of kinds. This man is therefore unclean. As the act which made the male/female player unclean was committed by both partners, the responsibility for the impurity extends to the other participant as well. These concepts of ritual purity are no longer ethical considerations for most people today. Why people are now willing to weave cloth from two types of flax but not willing to accept homosexuality is a bit of a theological mystery. After all, they are all grouped in the same ethical category in Leviticus.

Mirkinti

10/27/2001 04:07:25 AM

Actually, the word translated as 'abomination' in Leviticus is 'toevah,' which doesn't even mean 'sin,' let alone 'worst possible sin.' The word actually refers to acts that would lead to ritual impurity in the Hebrew culture. Eating pork or shellfish, cross-breeding animals, wearing clothes made out of more than one kind of fiber, and homosexual sex - probably in the context of temple prostitution - are all described as being 'toevah.'

Fist_of_God

10/27/2001 03:36:30 AM

I know that the worst possible sin is called an abomination, but surely it cannot be the acts of same sex love, can it? That would leave out quite a few hetersexuals from having to worry about losing Gods love, and I cannot imagine that this God of love could be so cruel.

robertm1

10/01/2001 12:02:19 PM

Adam $ Eve, made to produce, not man & man or Woman $ Woman..I have never seen any other Gender besides a Real man and Real woman produce Baby's..2 wrongs don't make Right...If it's worng don't do it,simplisity...

brandyscott

06/14/2001 03:38:37 AM

Jesus said "if a man lusts after a woman he has already committed adultery with her". So where does this nonsense that GLBT people are to remain celibate come from? Jesus words here apply to both heterosexuals and homosexuals. Since literalists/fundamentalist consider homosexuality to be the #1 sin that is confronting modern christianity, why didn't Jesus even take the time to address the subject at least once? Those that use the letters of Paul as "inspired" teachings of Christ are wrong. Paul's message was to heterosexuals who were practicing homosexuality in pagan temples. A characteristic that was against the heterosexuals natural orientation, not the homosexuals. Perhaps you should consider yourself a "Paulian" on this subject and not a "Christian". Christ was silent.....dead silent! "You heard me teach in the synagogue, I said nothing in private/secret"!

eric_f

05/25/2001 08:26:25 PM

Read Leviticus 20:13--"If any man lays with another, as would lay with a woman, they should both be put to death for their abominable act. Their blood is on their hands." I find it interesting that homosexuality is forbidden BEFORE bestiality...perhaps to emphasize to future generations who would condone this behavior that it is NOT OK. Also, the only reason to act on gay impulses is to fulfill "fleshy desires". Of course when I see an attractive woman, urges arise, but I control them because sex is for marriage between a MAN AND WOMAN only. Homosexuals should similarly deny their own desires. Remain celebate, or settle for a woman.

Watson

11/01/2000 02:13:58 PM

huckfinn, The Bible's reference to homosexuality is so miniscule that it apparantly wasn't a big issue during biblical times. You say the Bible couldn't be more explicit in condemning homosexuality. All it talks about people of the same sex having sex. Aren't committed relationships, whether gay or straight, more than just sex? You also say the Bible doesn't allow committed gay relationships. The truth is that the Bible doesn't say committed gay relationships are righit or wrong. Finally, you say the Bible only affirms heterosexual marriage. I won't deny that, but it also doesn't condemn homosexual marriage. If the writers of the Bible wanted to condemn all types of homosexual practice, they could have definately been more explicit.

Oversoul

09/27/2000 12:50:06 PM

huck- So what does that mean then, we are or aren't supposed to still stone gays? Pretty disturbing that anyone was ever permitted to do so.

huckfinn

09/27/2000 11:06:42 AM

Watson and Br. Rodney, The Bible couldn't be more explicit in condemning homosexuality outright. It makes no allowance whatsoever for "committed gay relationships". The only type of sexual relationship affirmed in Scripture is heterosexual marriage. Sweet-bud and SWinters59, The New Testament clearly distinguishes between the moral and civil/ceremonial laws of the Old Testament. The former are explicitly affirmed, while the latter are supplanted by the Messianic Covenant.

SWinters59

09/27/2000 09:23:21 AM

Rev. Falwell is being disingenuous, at best. If he believes that the Bible is the infallible word of God, and can't bring himself to disregard the verses in Romans, then he must also believe Leviticus' demands that homosexuals be put to death (along with children that don't obey their parents -- look it up). If he believes one, he's got to believe the other.

Khaelo

08/15/2000 04:38:18 AM

After reading this article, my opinion of Rev. Falwell has gone up considerably. While I still strongly disagree with his anti-homosexual stance, I admire his setting of priorities. His willingness to work with a conflicting group in order to address a larger problem (violence being more serious than private morality) is admirable. The world needs more people who make peace a priority. ~Kha'elo

sweet-bud

07/19/2000 08:01:54 PM

if your gonna use leviticus,for argument.z againt gay.z,,do you follow everything that is writtin in leviticus,,ie: stone adulterer.z,,sell 1st born grrl childern into slavery,,opress nieghbourin country.z (i guess mexico and canada)

Karl

05/17/2000 08:13:09 PM

"Extreme" rheotric is no more responsible for violence than laws against murder, drunk driving, or sexual exploitation of children are responsible for violence against those who break those laws. What violence did Christ commit to justify His crucifixion? To the contrary, and Falwell wants to ignore or deny this directive, a true Christian is to "rebuke them that sin that others also may fear". And, please review Leviticus 19:17-18 before you fall into the trap that rebuking a sinner is not "loving". Not rebuking these vile reprobate rejecters of God is hating them, according to the Bible.

Servant

05/17/2000 07:37:42 PM

The problem with Mr. Falwell - as with most "preachers" today - is that he's one who's been drawn to people because of his "itching ears". In other words, he's passing out cream of wheat instead of the meat of the King of Glory's message. He's telling people what they want to hear to soothe their consciences. This is not a subject, or a time in our history, for happy face talk ... it's time for straight talk, honest talk, courageous talk, righteous talk. He sounds more like a secular counselor - paid to help people feel comfortable with their sin - than an ambassador for the Almighty. Come on guys, get some spine; preaching the gospel means the whole gospel - in it's context - not pretending evil can somehow be good if we hold it's hand (rather than snatch it out of the fire).

antipas

05/16/2000 11:21:33 PM

Shame on Jerry Falwell. The Bible teaches that God abhors men who lie with mankind as with womankind - Leviticus 20:13, 20:23. Shame on him for being too cowardly to preach this.

JH

04/14/2000 11:29:04 AM

Br. Rodney, it is never wrong for a man to love and marry a woman. Implying that it is wrong for some people to marry is incredibly hurtful. I've seen your side celebrating people who are married with families who then leave them to "embrace who they are" - that is what is hurtful, and you celebrate them causing pain. There is no reason that person could not continue to love and support his family. By making him feel it is wrong to do so, you are the one causing pain.

Br. Rodney

04/07/2000 10:15:31 AM

Romans 1:26-27 Is clearly speaking of how it is wrong for a Heterosexual Man to have relations with another man. It is wrong for a person to go against who it is that God has created them to be. Using similar logic it would be sinful for a Homosexual person to enter into a Heterosexual relationship. How many times have we heard of people trying to do just that, and failing, often hurting thier spouse and famlies. Embrace who you are and rejoice and be glad.

NJlee

03/23/2000 09:34:33 PM

Jerry Fallwells article is both "compassionate" and healing, and I applaud him for it. Good and honest persons of all faiths look into their Holy Books and see justifications for many things that I cannot abide. But who am I to tell them that they are wrong? Fallwell is courageous to stand before 200 Gays and defend his views and profess his love. But the same science that convinced me that homosexuality is not a choice in some persons has convinced me that the homosexual community is way off base in many of their beliefs. Homosexuality is like "handedness" affecting about 5% of the population. Some, but not all, left handers can be brought to be right-handed without major damage. We also know that some homosexuals have been brought to enjoy a heterosexual life. We should celebrate those who come back to enjoy heterosexuality just as we must treat with dignity and respect, those who have no choice but a homosexual lifestyle.

Watson

02/24/2000 12:35:38 PM

While Jerry falwell might not present a hostile argument against gays and lesbiens, I still believe he's wrong. The quote he used from Romans 1:26-27 is the one I almost always hear to justify the anti-gay stance. But it's not explicit. In fact, none of the quotes in the Bible against homosexuality are explicit. The only thing that these quotes speak against or seem to speak against is men sleeping with men. The quote in Romans is the only one I know of that seems to say anything against women sleeping with women. These quotes, however do not say anything against committed relationships between two men or two women. And another thing, asking the writers of the Bible what they thought of gays and lesbiens would be like asking them what they thought of the fact that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Therefore, in my opinion, using quotes from the Bible to say homosexuality is wrong is just an excuse to justify ignorance and homophobia.

kitty

01/30/2000 03:07:03 PM

Great Post Ed. Love your sarcasm. I also love Dahlien's insistence that no one challenge his beliefs and tell him that he is wrong, yet he feels it is his duty to do just that to anyone who doesn't agree with him. Lovely man, glad he's a stranger.

Ed

01/13/2000 10:05:03 AM

Dahlien's references to "butt banging muff diving homo's" (sic) and "little faggot children" are priceless. Onward Christian Soldiers! (Or, better, "Onward Christian Soldier's!")

MaryATo

01/07/2000 10:46:20 PM

Yes! Many of those whose rage against gays is strongest are probably afraid of their own potential for homosexuality. Notice how the gay haters all seem to assume that sexual orientation is a choice that can be changed. If they truly believe that, then they must also believe that they and their children could start as hetero, then be seduced into homosexuality. If they believe one can be seduced from straight to gay, they must harbor those unacceptable gay feelings! Such beliefs make homosexuality seem very dangerous indeed. Only when we demystify homosexuality and get people to realize that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice can we remove the belief that it is dangerous and to be destroyed.

george

01/01/2000 01:37:55 PM

Anti-gay rhetoric is coupled with anti-abortion to raise dollars needed to continue ministries and collect "The almight Dollar." If it weren't for gay and abortion issues, the evangelists would have to rely on less inflammatory issues and perhaps their own charisma and truth. An organization ran by Mel White, (former writer for Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and others)Soulforce.Org has done research on this issue.Every time these issues are thrown out to the masses to raise money, dollars flow in and gay bashing rises. Coincidence! Absoulutely doubtful. Look at Matthew Shephard's funeral with the religious right holding banners, "Jesus hates fags!" My bible says Jesus hates no one. Please, ministers of all faith communities, focus on the principles Jesus did and leave "hot button" issues alone. John Lennon tells us, "All we need is love." Instead of screaming repent and change, what about acceptance and understanding? Isn't that truly what Christ taught?

Laura

12/23/1999 12:00:34 AM

Yes! It provides the hate-mongers with an excuse to hurt people. They can blame it on their religion.